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Vic Hays
06-02-2012, 08:14
All things that people do can be sorted into two groups. The principles of God or the principles of satan.

The Bible reveals both the wonderful savior and the selfish satan.

Galatians 5:18 But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.
5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
5:24 And they that are Christí have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

FCoulter
06-02-2012, 08:46
All things that people do can be sorted into two groups. The principles of God or the principles of satan.

The Bible reveals both the wonderful savior and the selfish satan.

Galatians 5:18 But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.
5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
5:24 And they that are Christí have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

http://www.cbcg.org/franklin/SA/SA_paulgalatians.pdf

Vic Hays
06-02-2012, 21:29
That is nice Fred that you know that under the law refers to condemnation of the law.

Now, do you practice it? Not from what I have been seeing you post.

Calling a Christian brother a fool (idiot) puts you in danger of damnation.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
5:24 And they that are Christí have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Vic Hays
06-03-2012, 08:36
What are God's principles?

They are so simple it is easy to compare them with our motives to figure out which side we are working for.

1. Truth

2. Justice or fairness

3. Mercy or forgiveness

4. individual liberty

eracer
06-03-2012, 08:40
All things that people do can be sorted into two groups. The principles of Fun or the principles of boring.

Kingarthurhk
06-03-2012, 08:47
All things that people do can be sorted into two groups. The principles of Fun or the principles of boring.

What constitutes "Fun" and was constitutes "Boring"?

Vic Hays
06-03-2012, 14:36
All things that people do can be sorted into two groups. The principles of Fun or the principles of boring.

Fun from a worldly point of view is something exciting that is trivial and meaningless.

Boring is something that has meaning and value and may take some effort or cost something.

From a Christian point of view something exciting is worshiping the one who deserves it and following His principles and example.

Boring is trivial and meaningless occupations.

FCoulter
06-03-2012, 14:48
That is nice Fred that you know that under the law refers to condemnation of the law.

Now, do you practice it? Not from what I have been seeing you post.

Calling a Christian brother a fool (idiot) puts you in danger of damnation.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
5:24 And they that are Christí have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


I used the term village idoit with a smile. No anger from me when doing it.

Since sin is the transgression of the law and you reject most of Gods laws using the term christian brother is a farse.

Vic Hays
06-03-2012, 17:55
I used the term village idoit with a smile. No anger from me when doing it.

Since sin is the transgression of the law and you reject most of Gods laws using the term christian brother is a farse.

What you are using as the basis for your philosophy kills, a strict letter of the Law without the Spirit, so I don't mind if you consider me a heathen for that reason.

II Corinthians 3:6 Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.
3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Geko45
06-03-2012, 18:42
All things that people do can be sorted into two groups. The principles of God or the principles of satan.

This sort of black and white thinking has been the cause of war and persecution throughout history. Once you start characterizing people that don't follow your belief system as serving "satan" then it is easy to rationalize all sorts of inhuman behavior.

juggy4711
06-03-2012, 18:57
http://j-walkblog.com/images2/angelanddevilshoulder.jpg

Vic Hays
06-03-2012, 22:49
This sort of black and white thinking has been the cause of war and persecution throughout history. Once you start characterizing people that don't follow your belief system as serving "satan" then it is easy to rationalize all sorts of inhuman behavior.

Truth exists or it doesn't. That seems pretty black and white to me.

Morality exists or it doesn't. That seems pretty black and white to me.

God exists or He doesn't. That seems pretty black and white to me.

The reason we need shades of gray is because we live in a sinful world. The day is coming when everything will be brought to light.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God.

Vic Hays
06-03-2012, 22:50
http://j-walkblog.com/images2/angelanddevilshoulder.jpg

Exactly, choose which one you wish to obey.

Kingarthurhk
06-04-2012, 04:36
This sort of black and white thinking has been the cause of war and persecution throughout history. Once you start characterizing people that don't follow your belief system as serving "satan" then it is easy to rationalize all sorts of inhuman behavior.

He was using it as a cautionary example, not in an attempt to incite violence. Rather, the opposite, to attempt to give fair warning about what people are doing in their lives to ultimately save lives. This world is a drop in the bucket compared to eternity. His point was "stop running into a burning building on purpose" not chucking people into one.

eracer
06-04-2012, 05:43
What constitutes "Fun" and was constitutes "Boring"?They are as definable as God and Satan.

GreenDrake
06-04-2012, 05:47
http://cdn1.hark.com/images/000/037/428/37428/original.0

Geko45
06-04-2012, 07:21
Truth exists or it doesn't. That seems pretty black and white to me.

Morality exists or it doesn't. That seems pretty black and white to me.

God exists or He doesn't. That seems pretty black and white to me.

There is a difference between asking binary questions and categorizing all human behavior as either godly or sinful.

The reason we need shades of gray is because we live in a sinful world. The day is coming when everything will be brought to light.

No, the reason why we need shades of gray is because the world is composed of shades of gray. The reason why you need abstract (and false) concepts such as sin is because you would prefer it to be black and white.

You are trying to reduce the complexity of the world into more manageable concepts that you can readily understand. Which is fine, that is what we all do when trying to understand complex issues, but the generalizations of your religous system have gone to far (and often are completely off track).

Geko45
06-04-2012, 07:27
He was using it as a cautionary example, not in an attempt to incite violence.

I understand that, but I was pointing out where that sort of thinking logically arrives it. If you truly believe certain behaviors are sinful and the work of a perfectly evil being such as satan then that enables the rationalization of all kinds of behaviors that a person would normally not consider in the name of serving their god in order to suppress such behaviors.

Brasso
06-04-2012, 07:56
The problem here is that some people think that to obey the Law means you have no Spirit. This constradicts the Bible. It's untrue. In fact, the reality is just the opposite.

Rom 8:7 Because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards Elohim, for it does not subject itself to the Torah of Elohim, neither indeed is it able,
Rom 8:8 and those who are in the flesh are unable to please Elohim.

Hos 6:6 “For I delight in kindness and not slaughtering, and in the knowledge of Elohim more than burnt offerings.

In other words, it's better to obey than to rely on grace for forgiveness. I believe Paul said the same thing.

Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah.

Vic Hays
06-04-2012, 07:57
There is a difference between asking binary questions and categorizing all human behavior as either godly or sinful.

No, the reason why we need shades of gray is because the world is composed of shades of gray. The reason why you need abstract (and false) concepts such as sin is because you would prefer it to be black and white.

You are trying to reduce the complexity of the world into more manageable concepts that you can readily understand. Which is fine, that is what we all do when trying to understand complex issues, but the generalizations of your religous system have gone to far (and often are completely off track).

God sees the end from the beginning. He knows the consequences of every action. If we saw as God sees we would see that there are actually no shades of gray.

Justice and mercy sometimes requires that the black and white be bent to accommodate a sinful world. Out of love the principle of mercy overlooks the absolute.

The absolute law is that sin causes death. This is the natural consequence of sin. God could have imposed this penalty on Adam and Eve. Out of love He chose to take it upon Himself. His principles of Truth and justice would not let Him ignore sin. The world is now in a probationary period while people choose to accept His gift or not. This is because of His principle of individual liberty. We are allowed to chose life or death.

FCoulter
06-04-2012, 09:01
The world is now in a probationary period while people choose to accept His gift or not.


Please show Biblical proof of this,
probationary period.

Vic Hays
06-04-2012, 09:20
Please show Biblical proof of this,
probationary period.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:
17:31 Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; whereof he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

God does nothing in secret. He is not seeking to surprise anyone and then condemning them. His principles of Truth, justice, mercy, and individual liberty do not allow subterfuge.

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
3:8 The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord GOD hath spoken, who can but prophesy?

Vic Hays
06-04-2012, 09:30
I understand that, but I was pointing out where that sort of thinking logically arrives it. If you truly believe certain behaviors are sinful and the work of a perfectly evil being such as satan then that enables the rationalization of all kinds of behaviors that a person would normally consider in the name of serving their god in order to suppress such behaviors.

God did not suppress Adam and Eve. He allowed them to make a moral decision that would lead to their death. This is in accordance with the principle of individual liberty. He had warned them beforehand in accordance with the principles of love and Truth.

False religion enjoins the use of force. This is not God's principle of individual liberty. Force can be employed to protect others as an act of mercy and justice which are God's principles. There are examples of this in the Bible.

FCoulter
06-04-2012, 11:28
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:
17:31 Because he has appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; whereof he has given assurance to all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

God does nothing in secret. He is not seeking to surprise anyone and then condemning them. His principles of Truth, justice, mercy, and individual liberty do not allow subterfuge.

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
3:8 The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord GOD hath spoken, who can but prophesy?

Sorry try again what you posted does not imply The world is now in a probationary period.

Vic Hays
06-04-2012, 14:23
Sorry try again what you posted does not imply The world is now in a probationary period.

What do you define probation as? Why would you not want to believe that God is judging you? Are your motives pure and your conscience clear?

I would say probation is an amount of time in which someone who is guilty must prove himself worthy of freedom.

The day of judgment has been held off for a number of reasons. It is probation no matter how you look at it. Adam and Eve could have been executed and justice would have been served. We are all their offspring and would never have existed.

BTW it is the inhabitants of the world that are on probation not the world itself. The entire universe is looking on to see if God is vindicated in granting such mercy to sinners.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/probation

pro∑ba∑tion (pr-bshn)
n.
1. A process or period in which a person's fitness, as for work or membership in a social group, is tested.
2.
a. Law The act of suspending the sentence of a person convicted of a criminal offense and granting that person provisional freedom on the promise of good behavior.
b. A discharge for a person from commitment as an insane person on condition of continued sanity and of being recommitted upon the reappearance of insanity.
3. A trial period in which a student is given time to try to redeem failing grades or bad conduct.
4. The status of a person on probation.

II Timothy 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith:
4:8 henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to me at that day; and not to me only, but also to all them that have loved his appearing.

FCoulter
06-04-2012, 15:07
What do you define probation as? Why would you not want to believe that God is judging you? Are your motives pure and your conscience clear?

I would say probation is an amount of time in which someone who is guilty must prove himself worthy of freedom.

The day of judgment has been held off for a number of reasons. It is probation no matter how you look at it. Adam and Eve could have been executed and justice would have been served. We are all their offspring and would never have existed.

BTW it is the inhabitants of the world that are on probation not the world itself. The entire universe is looking on to see if God is vindicated in granting such mercy to sinners.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/probation

pro∑ba∑tion (pr-bshn)
n.
1. A process or period in which a person's fitness, as for work or membership in a social group, is tested.
2.
a. Law The act of suspending the sentence of a person convicted of a criminal offense and granting that person provisional freedom on the promise of good behavior.
b. A discharge for a person from commitment as an insane person on condition of continued sanity and of being recommitted upon the reappearance of insanity.
3. A trial period in which a student is given time to try to redeem failing grades or bad conduct.
4. The status of a person on probation.

II Timothy 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith:
4:8 henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to me at that day; and not to me only, but also to all them that have loved his appearing.

If now is the probation for ALL mankind, what is the purpose of the millenium ? Or the short time thereafter?

Or are you going to pull the unbiblical investigative judgment card?

Geko45
06-04-2012, 16:20
God did not suppress Adam and Eve. He allowed them to make a moral decision that would lead to their death. This is in accordance with the principle of individual liberty. He had warned them beforehand in accordance with the principles of love and Truth.

Vic, it doesn't really help your case to bring up things like this because god, satan, adam and eve aren't real. They are just fictional characters in an old fairy tale. None of that ever actually happened.

Kingarthurhk
06-04-2012, 16:52
If now is the probation for ALL mankind, what is the purpose of the millenium ? Or the short time thereafter?

Or are you going to pull the unbiblical investigative judgment card?

Revelation 22:12, "Look, I am coming soon! <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-31093AC))'></sup> My reward is with me, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-31093AD))'></sup> and I will give to each person according to what they have done. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-31093AE))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>I am the Alpha and the Omega, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-31094AF))'></sup> the First and the Last, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-31094AG))'></sup> the Beginning and the End."

If He is comming and He is giving to each person according to what they have done, clearly He has already made judgment before returning.

You aren't going to pull the, "But, Fred said," card are you?:wavey:

FCoulter
06-04-2012, 17:20
Revelation 22:12, "Look, I am coming soon! <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-31093AC))'></sup> My reward is with me, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-31093AD))'></sup> and I will give to each person according to what they have done. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-31093AE))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>I am the Alpha and the Omega, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-31094AF))'></sup> the First and the Last, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-31094AG))'></sup> the Beginning and the End."

If He is comming and He is giving to each person according to what they have done, clearly He has already made judgment before returning.

You aren't going to pull the, "But, Fred said," card are you?:wavey:

I see you never have read rev. 20. It gives the order of things.

Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2*And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3*And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4*And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5*But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6*Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7*And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8*And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9*And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10*And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11*And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12*And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13*And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14*And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15*And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Brasso
06-04-2012, 18:18
You aren't going to pull the, "But, Fred said," card are you?

I hate to say this, but you guys pull the "but Ellen White says,.." card all the time, because a great deal of what you believe is not supported by Scripture.

Vic Hays
06-04-2012, 20:36
If now is the probation for ALL mankind, what is the purpose of the millenium ? Or the short time thereafter?

Or are you going to pull the unbiblical investigative judgment card?

Oh, I get it. One of your doctrines clashes with the idea of a final judgment day. :upeyes:

It has not mattered that I have provided scripture before. You denied texts that a child could understand. You quoted Revelation 20 which says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." What do you suppose dead people are doing?

If you wish to discuss the millennium start a new thread don't try to hijack this one.

Vic Hays
06-04-2012, 20:44
I hate to say this, but you guys pull the "but Ellen White says,.." card all the time, because a great deal of what you believe is not supported by Scripture.

It may be your opinion that our beliefs are not supported by scripture, but you are so biased that you claim 10 in the Bible is actually 90.

Gods principles are Truth for starters. Denial is not truth.

Vic Hays
06-04-2012, 20:47
Vic, it doesn't really help your case to bring up things like this because god, satan, adam and eve aren't real. They are just fictional characters in an old fairy tale. None of that ever actually happened.

Do you have proof that it never happened? I doubt it, just your belief system.

God's principles are Truth, justice, mercy, and individual liberty. Do you like those principles?

FCoulter
06-04-2012, 21:22
Oh, I get it. One of your doctrines clashes with the idea of a final judgment day. :upeyes:

It has not mattered that I have provided scripture before. You denied texts that a child could understand. You quoted Revelation 20 which says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." What do you suppose dead people are doing?

If you wish to discuss the millennium start a new thread don't try to hijack this one.

I have no problem with the belief of a final judgement day. You are just very Ew confused as to when it will occur.

Until then the dead are in the grave.

Trust me EW doctrine wont hold water when it comes to the millennium but if you wish Ill gladly make her out to be a false prophet and liar.

Vic Hays
06-05-2012, 08:40
I have no problem with the belief of a final judgement day. You are just very Ew confused as to when it will occur.

Until then the dead are in the grave.

Trust me EW doctrine wont hold water when it comes to the millennium but if you wish Ill gladly make her out to be a false prophet and liar.

The Bible is the Word of God and a sufficient guide for salvation. The Word of God is Truth, one of God's principles, and reveals the principles of God and how His government operates.

Justice and mercy are two other principles of God. What occurs during the millennium deals with God's justice. I will start a thread specifically for the millennium and what it is for.

Geko45
06-05-2012, 09:42
Do you have proof that it never happened? I doubt it, just your belief system.

God's principles are Truth, justice, mercy, and individual liberty. Do you like those principles?

The principles are great, that's probably why I stuck with it for so long. I eventually realized that I could keep the principles and lose the fairy tale.

As for proof, this has been covered many times, but if someone tells me they saw bigfoot then it is their burden to prove they did, not mine to prove they didn't. Burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. Especially a claim as extraordinary as christianity's.

Brasso
06-05-2012, 09:57
It may be your opinion that our beliefs are not supported by scripture, but you are so biased that you claim 10 in the Bible is actually 90.

I didn't say that. I said that by the time they got to this point they had already received about 90 commandments from God. If all they had to obey is these 10, then what about all the commandments prior?

Vic Hays
06-05-2012, 12:10
The principles are great, that's probably why I stuck with it for so long. I eventually realized that I could keep the principles and lose the fairy tale.

As for proof, this has been covered many times, but if someone tells me they saw bigfoot then it is their burden to prove they did, not mine to prove they didn't. Burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. Especially a claim as extraordinary as christianity's.

The very fact that these principles exist is evidence for God.

Vic Hays
06-05-2012, 12:18
I didn't say that. I said that by the time they got to this point they had already received about 90 commandments from God. If all they had to obey is these 10, then what about all the commandments prior?

They were under an oath to keep the whole law. This whole law is called bondage in the New Testament. The bondwoman is to be cast out which is the old nation of Israel.

Galatians 4:25 Now this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia and answereth to the Jerusalem that now is: for she is in bondage with her children.
4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, so also it is now.
4:30 Howbeit what saith the scripture? Cast out the handmaid and her son: for the son of the handmaid shall not inherit with the son of the freewoman.
4:31 Wherefore, brethren, we are not children of a handmaid, but of the freewoman.

5:1 For freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage.
5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.

Brasso
06-05-2012, 15:16
They were under an oath to keep the whole law. This whole law is called bondage in the New Testament. The bondwoman is to be cast out which is the old nation of Israel.


Whoa. It's not called bondage. Be very careful here. The bondage here is the Levitical System and Traditions.

Psa 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
Psa 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.

Rom 7:12 So that the Torah truly is set-apart, and the command set-apart, and righteous, and good.

There are two covenants. One of works and one of promise. It's the one of works, Temple and sacrifice, that is bondage. It's this covenant that can never take away your sins, but only cover them. If you become circumcised (in order to partake of temple service), Christ shall profit you nothing. This is the bondage. The Torah is never bondage. It's freedom.

Stop confusing the Torah with the covenant/s. If I've said it a once I've said it a thousand times....they are NOT the same thing.

Vic Hays
06-05-2012, 22:44
Whoa. It's not called bondage. Be very careful here. The bondage here is the Levitical System and Traditions.


The Bible says that the Jerusalem at the time was under bondage.

How are we supposed to know which laws have become obsolete and which are still in effect?

Listen to Jesus:

Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.
19:18 He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
19:19 Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

I don't see any of the Book of the Law commandments there.

juggy4711
06-05-2012, 23:08
The very fact that these principles exist is evidence for God.

Yeah if it were not for that I would commit rape, murder, arson and rape.

Brasso
06-06-2012, 06:15
Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.
19:18 He said to him, Which? Jesus said, You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,
19:19 Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

I don't see any of the Book of the Law commandments there.


I don't even see 10. Certainly not the Sabbath. So what's your point? He was using these as example of the Torah, not as an all inclusive list. Might as well go back to Acts 15 and say all we need to do is not eat blood, strangled animals, and animals offered to idols, and abbra cadabbra, we've got a one way ticket to heaven. Nothing else required.

I'm sorry that so many passages speak directly agains your beliefs.

GreenDrake
06-06-2012, 07:43
We got us a Mexican Standoff here.

Geko45
06-06-2012, 09:41
Yeah if it were not for that I would commit rape, murder, arson and rape.

"You said rape twice?"

:horsey: :whistling:

Vic Hays
06-06-2012, 10:00
I don't even see 10. Certainly not the Sabbath. So what's your point? He was using these as example of the Torah, not as an all inclusive list. Might as well go back to Acts 15 and say all we need to do is not eat blood, strangled animals, and animals offered to idols, and abbra cadabbra, we've got a one way ticket to heaven. Nothing else required.

I'm sorry that so many passages speak directly agains your beliefs.

All of these passages speak to my belief. Jesus indicated several Commandments out of the Ten Commandments as you noted, but not those dealing with relationship to God. The Rich young ruler had this problem, however, the list was inclusive enough to indicate, "which commandments".

Acts 15 was was the judgment that would allow the uncircumcised Gentiles to hobnob with the circumcised Jews. It was the minimum necessary to do so.

Your philosophy has you in too much denial to believe the truth about what these stories were intended to convey.

God's principles do not include rigid adherence to ceremony nor to regulations that expired when the Messiah came.

dbcooper
06-06-2012, 10:03
Morality 2: Not-so-good books - YouTube

Kingarthurhk
06-06-2012, 16:33
We got us a Mexican Standoff here.

Darthmatic Chipmunk - YouTube

:rofl:

Vic Hays
06-06-2012, 23:28
You will find that God's principles run counter to the principles that make society tick. It is because satan has laid claim to the politics and power of the world. his principles include force and pride. These principles are tempting to fallen man, but not to Jesus, because Jesus lived God's principles. Power and control are not on Jesus agenda.

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed to him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
4:6 And the devil said to him, All this power will I give you, and the glory of them: for that is delivered to me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
4:7 If you therefore will worship me, all shall be yours.

Vic Hays
06-07-2012, 09:20
Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
5:10 And have made us to our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing.
5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be to him that sits on the throne, and to the Lamb for ever and ever.
5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that lives for ever and ever.