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DaveG
06-04-2012, 17:46
What is THE most important gun/ammunition to buy before 2013, if I only want one pistol and one long gun? Opinions?

ArmoryDoc
06-04-2012, 17:50
What is their primary purpose ?

cyrsequipment
06-04-2012, 18:27
Well, for me it will be a Glock 19 and an AR style in. 308... but then again I have pretty much everything else I need.

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gotplastic
06-04-2012, 18:35
glock 34 and ar15; obviously with lots of ammo.

auto-5
06-04-2012, 19:21
12ga bird shot#4-#8 lead. next would be 3 1/2" 00 buck after that .22lr. That would cover 75% of my long guns.

Syclone538
06-04-2012, 20:49
It depends on what you already have.

If we are assuming the person has nothing, my answer would be a mid size 9mm and a 12 ga pump. I'd really want a rifle asap after those 2.

M1A Shooter
06-04-2012, 21:01
if this is primarily for an election scare, i say a glock 34/35 with as many high capacity magazines as you can afford, as well as an AR15 or AK47. shotguns will not fall victim to elections as easily.

beatcop
06-04-2012, 21:06
If your only driving idea is a "date", don't bother.

arclight610
06-04-2012, 21:24
9mm pistol and an AR-15.

Aceman
06-04-2012, 21:46
I think all of this Obama will ban guns business is foolishness. We all know he can't do that if the world ends on December 21st!

If you have no guns - and I can't imagine you'd be here if that is the case;

Any of these are a great choice:
#1 12g pump Remington 870/Mossberg 500 and an assortment of buck, slug, bird and game shot, along with the pistol of your choice - although a .357 with a 4" barrel or a Glock 19/XD9mm/S&W M&P 9mm are all hard to argue with.

#2 A .357 Magnum 4" barrel and a Marlin 336 (or whatever) lever gun with an assortment of .38 and .357 ammunition

#3 A Glock 23 and a Yugo underfolder AK-47 in 7.62x39 (get extended mags for Glock, and Drums for the AK) - This is a Zombie Apocalypse combo.

If you already have guns, but not many, in priority order:
#1 Great pistol - semi or revolver in 9mm, .40, .45 or .357
#2 12g pump shotgun - long and shoprt barrels a bonus
#3 .22 of your choice - pistol or rifle; Gotta love Ruger MK III or 10/22
#4 Military style rifle - AK, AR, M1, FAL (again, whatever floats your boat)
#5 Hunting rifle of choice - consider a 30-30 lever, a .308 to match the military rifle, or a good old .30-06. I like a remington 7600 pump, but a bolt gun is cool too.

After that, I can only assume you are worried about the election. In that case:

Barret 50, Glock 18, and Saiga 12g. If you don't have all three of those you are REALLY in trouble!!!!! I'd just go Doomsday Preppers and dig a hole if Obama gets elected and I don't have those!!!! And all the AK drums you can find. They'll be worth more than gold!!!!!!!!!!:rofl:

Syclone538
06-04-2012, 22:29
...
After that, I can only assume you are worried about the election. In that case:

Barret 50, Glock 18, and Saiga 12g. If you don't have all three of those you are REALLY in trouble!!!!! I'd just go Doomsday Preppers and dig a hole if Obama gets elected and I don't have those!!!! And all the AK drums you can find. They'll be worth more than gold!!!!!!!!!!:rofl:

:rofl:

You can just go buy a Barrett and a Saiga, a G18, not so much.

ChuteTheMall
06-04-2012, 22:32
Glock 19 with happy sticks and AK 47 with folding stock.

TangoFoxtrot
06-05-2012, 04:07
What is THE most important gun/ammunition to buy before 2013, if I only want one pistol and one long gun? Opinions?

Vague question but I'll play along anyway. Glock 17 and AR15 both with spare parts, and lots of ammo.

TangoFoxtrot
06-05-2012, 04:11
I think all of this Obama will ban guns business is foolishness. We all know he can't do that if the world ends on December 21st!

If you have no guns - and I can't imagine you'd be here if that is the case;

Any of these are a great choice:
#1 12g pump Remington 870/Mossberg 500 and an assortment of buck, slug, bird and game shot, along with the pistol of your choice - although a .357 with a 4" barrel or a Glock 19/XD9mm/S&W M&P 9mm are all hard to argue with.

#2 A .357 Magnum 4" barrel and a Marlin 336 (or whatever) lever gun with an assortment of .38 and .357 ammunition

#3 A Glock 23 and a Yugo underfolder AK-47 in 7.62x39 (get extended mags for Glock, and Drums for the AK) - This is a Zombie Apocalypse combo.

If you already have guns, but not many, in priority order:
#1 Great pistol - semi or revolver in 9mm, .40, .45 or .357
#2 12g pump shotgun - long and shoprt barrels a bonus
#3 .22 of your choice - pistol or rifle; Gotta love Ruger MK III or 10/22
#4 Military style rifle - AK, AR, M1, FAL (again, whatever floats your boat)
#5 Hunting rifle of choice - consider a 30-30 lever, a .308 to match the military rifle, or a good old .30-06. I like a remington 7600 pump, but a bolt gun is cool too.

After that, I can only assume you are worried about the election. In that case:

Barret 50, Glock 18, and Saiga 12g. If you don't have all three of those you are REALLY in trouble!!!!! I'd just go Doomsday Preppers and dig a hole if Obama gets elected and I don't have those!!!! And all the AK drums you can find. They'll be worth more than gold!!!!!!!!!!:rofl:

I agree with the first sentence of your statement. Everybody thinks Obama is going to take away their guns. Well guess what he can't. Now that this histeria is going on the manufacturers are taking advantage of this and its driving prices up and causeing slower production due to demand.

BR549
06-05-2012, 07:38
Now that this histeria is going on the manufacturers are taking advantage of this and its driving prices up and causeing slower production due to demand.

:dunno:

Would you like to elaborate with some logic to prove your hypothesis correct................

or incorrect?

DoctaGlockta
06-05-2012, 08:19
What is THE most important gun/ammunition to buy before 2013, if I only want one pistol and one long gun? Opinions?
Glock 19 and an AR-15 pistol or Shotgun

Bilbo Bagins
06-05-2012, 08:53
What is THE most important gun/ammunition to buy before 2013, if I only want one pistol and one long gun? Opinions?

If the gun Panic of 2008 is any indication, I would say any flavor of AR or AK, and any service pistol that carries more then 10 rounds.

It was amazing to see. At the height of it all, I walked in a large poplar gun store in 2008 and seen only 4 or 5 rifles on the shelf, and a clerk showing a guy a Remington 7600 .308 pump action rifle because that all they had that came close to an "assault rifle" . The handgun Cases were filled with used junk, and the new Glock, S&W, Kel Tec and HK cases were empty

You have manufactures like Ruger saying they are not taking any more orders. Then you Have the 2012 elections. Then you have the 2012 Doomsday wackos. On top of all that you have a summer of racial tension, and the possibility of riots. All that will lead to a major run on guns and ammo.

If you don't have your primary Pistol and Rifle now, get in soon. If not you will have to wait until everything settles down, which will be March 2013 if Romney Wins the Election. It will be perhaps 2014 and beyond if Obama wins.

My choices are already set and sitting in my safe, an AR, a Kel Tec 9mm Carbine and a stable of pistols.

kirgi08
06-05-2012, 09:42
Basic,a 10/22 .38.'08.

pugman
06-05-2012, 11:56
:dunno:

Would you like to elaborate with some logic to prove your hypothesis correct................

or incorrect?

I agree with the first sentence of your statement. Everybody thinks Obama is going to take away their guns. Well guess what he can't. Now that this histeria is going on the manufacturers are taking advantage of this and its driving prices up and causeing slower production due to demand.

I'm not sure TF stated exactly what he wanted - or maybe I'm wrong.

Ruger has since stopped taking orders for the near future

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/22/gun-sales-off-to-bang-for-election-year/

Now, depending on who is running the shop and their methodolgy it could slow production down. If I have orders for 10,000 rifles but 500,000 pistols (dependent on margins, equipment availablity, job skill sets, etc) I could see labor being shifted to the pistols?

As for prices going up - I think it really depends on the weapon. Arsenal AKs? Forget about it. The used market is near dry and the ones you see get snatched up quick. A guy on AR15 has one as of last night "nearly new" listed at $950 with nothing more than the rifle and 5 round mag. If he gets the $950 good for him. The same rifle sold at $750 in March and within the last six weeks at $795 at Buds.

The one's for me would be a Glock 19, as many high cap mags I can find and an AK. As for ammo, I've been stockpiling for years....

DustyJacket
06-05-2012, 12:07
Depending what you are going to do with them...

If they are an investment, anything that might get banned, like an evil Black Rifle and a hi-cap pistol.

If you think it'll be the last you every buy - maybe a shotgun and your favorite pistol.

If you are thinking riots - semi-autos and big magazines, lots of them

If TEOTWAWKI, then either 22 (easy to carry lots and easy to find) or 9mm and .223/5.56 since that is what the military uses and has tons of - plus every militia and many S&P have the same.


Just my two-cents based on nothing much.

BR549
06-05-2012, 13:27
I'm not sure TF stated exactly what he wanted - or maybe I'm wrong.



Agreed.

If demand = HIGH for Product A at a selling price that producer considers profitable, then the producer would logically increase production (if possible).

quake
06-05-2012, 14:43
What is THE most important gun/ammunition to buy before 2013, if I only want one pistol and one long gun? Opinions?

Based on this, I'd make the assumption you mean these new ones would be your only ones; but not sure. If that's the case, I'd second a lot of what's been said above. The 'evil' (fun) guns are the ones most likely to be affected - both in availability and in price - by election outcomes, so the nod would go toward them as the 'get them now' choices. But those are also the first types to be impacted by any restrictions or outright bans, which can also be affected by election results.

So the question is, do you want to go more toward things that are:

a - most likely to be harder (and more expensive) to come by after, or even shortly before, elections, or

b - most likely to be unaffected by any legislation after an election.

If "a", then I'd say the typical AR/AK plus a defensive autopistol such as glock, beretta, hk, whatever.

If "b", then I'd lean more toward a levergun, revolver combination as Aceman suggested; ideally in a shared, commonly-available caliber. IE, a .44 magnum combo, a .357 magnum combo, etc.

rohanreginald
06-05-2012, 16:08
For me only one handgun would be a toss between a .22 or a 9mm. I am leaning more towards the .22.

For a long gun the logical choice would be a 12 gauge shotgun. Followed by a 20 gauge then a .22.

Aceman
06-05-2012, 19:23
Supply/Demand is a myth. Some egghead made that up to describe some really simple idea of the market. It happens - but rarely.

Example of it NOT happening:

Let's say at level X of production I sell 100% of my product (Glock 17...) and I make $100 profit.

As demand for the awesome Glock 17 goes up, X is not enough to meet the demand. Thus more people want it than can have it. So I can charge more for it. Thus I still sell all my weapons - but I now make $125 from each (cost goes from 500 to 525, say). Glocks costs are the same they made 1000 pistols just the same - except could charge more.

That's cool, unless some people are willing to buy maybe an XD. Since there are also XD's around, the supply is now 2X - I can buy a Glock or an XD. If XD sells for $450, they will sell guns and Glock won't. Glock loses money!!!

Now - since suppliers know this kind of happens, what they do is NOT flood the market at a reduced cost (although that happens too), what they often do is REDUCE production. That lowers the supply. To you it seems like demand is high, because they are unavailable, the supplier then raises the price, and you pay more, and they make more, while they simultaneously REDUCE their costs (labor, materials, etc...). More money, for less guns.

ANYTHING that makes consumers fearful is GOOD for the supplier of the item. Gun companies want Obama to win - you will buy like mad! If the repub wins - you take a deep breathe, realx, and their profits go to crap for the next 4 years.

So if par is $100 per weapon....they don't want to make 100000 weapons (per manufacturer) where only 60% are sold at $5 per item profit $300k - $160k LOSS on unsold weapons = $140k). They want to make $200 on 40k weapons 100% sold = $800k (PLUS the savings on reducing materials, utilities, and labor costs!)

I make over a half million more dollars by making LESS guns. Sneaky, eh?

9mm +p+
06-06-2012, 02:48
Takedown 10/22 and an assault rifle, my choice would be grab a Arsenal SLR-107 and ultimak it and slap on a T-1 and you're good to go. Also a Glock 19. Glad I already have all of these.

cyrsequipment
06-06-2012, 03:48
Supply/Demand is a myth. Some egghead made that up to describe some really simple idea of the market. It happens - but rarely.

Example of it NOT happening:

Let's say at level X of production I sell 100% of my product (Glock 17...) and I make $100 profit.

As demand for the awesome Glock 17 goes up, X is not enough to meet the demand. Thus more people want it than can have it. So I can charge more for it. Thus I still sell all my weapons - but I now make $125 from each (cost goes from 500 to 525, say). Glocks costs are the same they made 1000 pistols just the same - except could charge more.

That's cool, unless some people are willing to buy maybe an XD. Since there are also XD's around, the supply is now 2X - I can buy a Glock or an XD. If XD sells for $450, they will sell guns and Glock won't. Glock loses money!!!

Now - since suppliers know this kind of happens, what they do is NOT flood the market at a reduced cost (although that happens too), what they often do is REDUCE production. That lowers the supply. To you it seems like demand is high, because they are unavailable, the supplier then raises the price, and you pay more, and they make more, while they simultaneously REDUCE their costs (labor, materials, etc...). More money, for less guns.

ANYTHING that makes consumers fearful is GOOD for the supplier of the item. Gun companies want Obama to win - you will buy like mad! If the repub wins - you take a deep breathe, realx, and their profits go to crap for the next 4 years.

So if par is $100 per weapon....they don't want to make 100000 weapons (per manufacturer) where only 60% are sold at $5 per item profit $300k - $160k LOSS on unsold weapons = $140k). They want to make $200 on 40k weapons 100% sold = $800k (PLUS the savings on reducing materials, utilities, and labor costs!)

I make over a half million more dollars by making LESS guns. Sneaky, eh?

Um, you missed a few steps in there, namely market and cost analysis. You are also ignoring economies of scale and the fact that, with firearms at least, production takes quite awhile to ramp up. Manufacturers are pumping out guns faster than they have before, but they do realize that this is a temporary increase in the market so they are reluctant to increase manufacturing capacity in the short-term and have to downsize later. So they just "make do" with their current capacity and either add shifts or pay overtime. I believe that most are just going to hand out overtime to their existing employees rather than hire and train large numbers of new employees because they are expecting this bubble to burst come November or December at the latest.

In other words, supply and demand DO exist.

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Mike2
06-06-2012, 06:46
G30 aks 7.62

BryanG
06-06-2012, 07:17
Glock 19 and 12 ga. pump.

With varying ammo, you can use the 12 ga. for anything from birds to deer. You can't do that very easily with a rifle.

quake
06-06-2012, 09:55
Not following. This:
Supply/Demand is a myth. Some egghead made that up to describe some really simple idea of the market. It happens - but rarely.

Not following this. Your example seems to demonstrate why the supply/demand dynamic does influence pricing and availability.

The increase in glock price, decreases demand for the glock while increasing demand for the xd. If/when xd increases their price, it drives people back to glock, or to HK, or whoever. If xd's have quality problems that drive people away (reducing demand), it drives their prices down. Conversely, if the quality of their $450 gun is equal to that of an $800 gun, they'll typically build enough of a loyal following that they can gradually increase their prices; but most often they simply come out with a "new" model at the increased price instead. Reasons are multiple, and much like the reasons that car mfr's offer rebates rather than reducing prices. Offering a $7000 rebate on a $26000 car, vs. simply dropping the price down to $19000, seems like a wash; no real difference in the two. But it does make a difference in the long run, since used-car values are based on original price. Keeping the original price high, keeps used prices higher than they otherwise would be, which decreases the price-gap between new and used; and that's obviously good for the mfr. Decreasing that price-gap (ie, keeping used car prices as high as possible) makes used cars less attractive and so - to whatever degree - decreases demand for those used cars; increasing the demand for new while simultaneously allowing the price of new to remain high. Basically, keep sticker price high, and in good times charge full price or close to it. In hard times, don't lower the price but offer a rebate instead; thus helping to keep the future price of that same car (and cars in general) remain higher when sold used.

It's not so much a direct inverse relationship between supply & demand; that decreasing one increases the other, although that's what some folks seem to think happens. But it's that supply and demand both work together to affect prices. If demand remains relatively constant & supply goes up, prices come down; one example would be when a huge supply of milsurp ammo suddenly hits the market. If supply remains constant and demand goes up, prices go up; one example of this is plywood and generator prices when a hurricane approaches.

...ANYTHING that makes consumers fearful is GOOD for the supplier of the item. Gun companies want Obama to win - you will buy like mad! If the repub wins - you take a deep breathe, realx, and their profits go to crap for the next 4 years.
Often, as in the example you state. But not 'always', as fear can keep people from spending money as well. Consumers' fear of recession hurts suppliers of things seen as non-essential or postpone-able. (Real estate, casinos, etc) Fear also can in some cases have an impact even at non-consumer levels. A venture capitalist is likely to be much more risk-averse today than he was 15-20 years ago, which leads him to keep his money in more conservative things; things which don't necessarily create jobs the way a typical venture investment would.

mingaa
06-06-2012, 10:13
The front line really IS a 3 gun proposition at least 4 or 5 is better yet but here's suggestions - pick your two:

Glock 34 (very accurate, high capacity 9mm)
Mossberg 930 (12G kicks ass, I have the 24" Turkey as a do-all, many favor the SPX for SD)
Colt 6920 or similar (take your choice from many accurate and proven AR 223 / 5.56 platforms - reliable, rugged and proven - lots of universal parts)

THEN: a second 9mm for redundancy, a pistol carbine (in 9mm in this case), a 22LR with suppressor, a heavier rifle (308 or 7.62) okay I'll stop at 7 and say BUTTLOADS OF AMMO!!!!!

IMHO this is not about 2013 or any other date - being prepared for defense is just that, a goal in itself.

TangoFoxtrot
06-07-2012, 05:08
:dunno:

Would you like to elaborate with some logic to prove your hypothesis correct................

or incorrect?

Simple....Manufacturers see there is panic from the "BHO is gonna take my guns" people! they think WOW lets raise prices and make more profit (some not all )..... This causes a demand..... Now the said company has to produce more product and most likely won't higher more people for production.....This now effects the supply. Economics 101.:upeyes:

BR549
06-07-2012, 07:18
Simple....Manufacturers see there is panic from the "BHO is gonna take my guns" people! they think WOW lets raise prices and make more profit (some not all )..... This causes a demand..... Now the said company has to produce more product and most likely won't higher more people for production.....This now effects the supply. Economics 101.:upeyes:

Duh....ung.huh.........

Oooooh...okay.......That's how economics works.

BR549
06-07-2012, 07:21
ceteris paribus on GTSP

quake
06-07-2012, 07:42
Simple....Manufacturers see there is panic from the "BHO is gonna take my guns" people! they think WOW lets raise prices and make more profit (some not all )..... ]This causes a demand..... Now the said company has to produce more product and most likely won't higher more people for production.....This now effects the supply. Economics 101.:upeyes:
The underlined part is where I'm not following...? The mfr raising prices creates demand?

cyrsequipment
06-07-2012, 18:03
The underlined part is where I'm not following...? The mfr raising prices creates demand?

Sure, that was the entire premise of the occupy protests, and we all know they MUST have been correct.

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Lone Kimono
06-07-2012, 18:33
The most important thing to me would be anything imported. That could probably be cut off by EO, not an act of congress.

UneasyRider
06-07-2012, 18:35
I made my decision with the Glock 19 and an AR-15.

You need to buy your ammunition now too if your planning for cost increases and bans, or just SHTF. As well you need a quality optic like the Aimpoint Comp M4 which is indestructable and a couple of flip up lens caps to go with it, it comes with a flash hider. The most important thing that you can buy are 30 round magazines. The Glock needs a set of night sights installed and a dozen KCI 15 round magazines as well as a few good holsters.

Do not buy a shotgun since you will definetly be able to buy one of those for the rest of your life and the shells are expensive and heavy to carry.

An AK is just as good if not better (opinions differ) than an AR. but I personally don't see a comparable pistol for only having one than the Glock mid frame in 9mm or .40s&w.

quake
06-08-2012, 04:57
Sure, that was the entire premise of the occupy protests, and we all know they MUST have been correct.
So if I simply raise our prices, I'll actually make MORE sales..? Cool. :supergrin:

That explains the success of walmart then. No, wait, they LOWERED average prices and demand at their stores stays high.

Then it maybe explains the mass-market success of Korth, Omega and Rolex? Much higher-than-average prices, so that explains the fact that everybody buys them. No, wait; only a very small percentage buy them.


Well, crap; I guess I'm just not as smart as some. Instead of spouting theories, I tend to make the simpleton mistake of referring to documented historical reality. No wonder I'm unable to understand (or appreciate) a lot of our modern 'culture'...

:tongueout:

FerFAL
06-08-2012, 11:17
What is THE most important gun/ammunition to buy before 2013, if I only want one pistol and one long gun? Opinions?

Glock 17 and an AK47 or 74 with lots of ammo and enough mags for both.

Another thing: GET YOUR CCW license!!. Legislations can be changed and all of a sudden you might find yourself kicking yourself for not getting the permit when you still could or when it was far less hassle, required less paperwork, less expensive, etc.
FerFAL

PlasticGuy
06-09-2012, 12:19
I bought a "beater" AK74 several thousand rounds of surplus ammo. Getting a gun and enough ammo to fend off a home invasion is easy. Having enough ammo to train regularly is much less common. I love when people say they are good to go because they have a rifle and a few loaded mags. Great, but how are they going to keep their skill level up?

UneasyRider
06-09-2012, 13:12
I bought a "beater" AK74 several thousand rounds of surplus ammo. Getting a gun and enough ammo to fend off a home invasion is easy. Having enough ammo to train regularly is much less common. I love when people say they are good to go because they have a rifle and a few loaded mags. Great, but how are they going to keep their skill level up?

That's a really good point about keeping up your skill lever... you may not be able to someday if your weapon is banned and you decided to keep it. Shoot all you can now and get that muscle memory going and it will help, maybe a good red dot too.

barbedwiresmile
06-15-2012, 04:28
If you were to have only one rifle and one pistol, and prepping for a long term problem, I would suggest having the same choices as your local government agents. If prepping for a shorter term problem, such as a natural disaster, just obtain what is appealing to you- there is no "correct" answer.

cyrsequipment
06-15-2012, 18:10
If you were to have only one rifle and one pistol, and prepping for a long term problem, I would suggest having the same choices as your local government agents. If prepping for a shorter term problem, such as a natural disaster, just obtain what is appealing to you- there is no "correct" answer.

Are you planning on robbing the "local government agents"?

barbedwiresmile
06-16-2012, 05:50
Are you planning on robbing the "local government agents"?

No, DHS, I am not. But your question speaks to why S&P forums have a poor reputation among both serious 'preppers' and anti/non-preppers alike. Implicit in my response is the reality that obtaining firearms is fairly simple. Maintaining them is not. It therefore makes sense to own the firearms that have the greatest local supply of ammunition and spare parts. Absent a support and supply system, uncommon, unique, and/or highly modified items are of less utility under adverse conditions that those that are commonly available and parts-wise interchangeable. (Unless one has access to highly sophisticated fabrication equipment and both the time and power supply to make use of it.)

rkwrichard
06-16-2012, 06:45
If I could only buy one it would be a Ruger 10/22.
If I could buy two it would be a Ruger 10/22 and an AR in 5.56
If I could buy three it would be a Ruger 10/22 an AR and a Glock 17/34/19
If I could buy four I would add a Remington 308

cyrsequipment
06-16-2012, 10:47
No, DHS, I am not. But your question speaks to why S&P forums have a poor reputation among both serious 'preppers' and anti/non-preppers alike. Implicit in my response is the reality that obtaining firearms is fairly simple. Maintaining them is not. It therefore makes sense to own the firearms that have the greatest local supply of ammunition and spare parts. Absent a support and supply system, uncommon, unique, and/or highly modified items are of less utility under adverse conditions that those that are commonly available and parts-wise interchangeable. (Unless one has access to highly sophisticated fabrication equipment and both the time and power supply to make use of it.)

Actually your question speaks to that end, you seem to think that you would be able to get spare parts from the police or their suppliers. Kinda like playing a video game and just picking up supplies as you wander around.

Why would having the same ammunition as the local officials be a consideration unless you were planning on getting resupplied by them?

The "plan" should be (if guns and ammo is part of your plan) to get the weapons, parts and ammo that you want and plan on taking care of yourself, not getting "resupplied".

PDs buy their ammo and parts via bids and get them shipped in, your logic of getting resupplied by your local constabulary is not a good plan, to say the least.

Catshooter
06-16-2012, 15:19
It's interesting how many think that since the local PD and/or military uses this weapon/ammo that translates over to they somehow get to share.

Seriously? How'd that work out for you during the Obama scare of '07 - 09?

Citizens in the Katrina aftermath made real good use of government supplies, I'm just sure.

If anything, you having what the local PD/.gov needs may help them stay supplied 'cause they'll just requisition yours if they can.

I know it hurts, but try to think things through once in a while. It can make life a lot better for you.


Cat

barbedwiresmile
06-16-2012, 15:44
For our friends at DHS ^, and the historically illiterate, in a long term SHTF and/or state crack-down, one of the first dynamics to develop is the 'black' market, covering gaps in the traditional, state-sanctioned supply chain. Do the math from there. Or not, as your capacity dictates.

Catshooter
06-16-2012, 16:45
Of course, historically, there is sometimes a black market.

That sounds like a good plan, oh sure. Just an excellent way to survive. Deal with criminals, break the law and buy stolen goods.

I did the math and thanks, I'll stick to my plan. Not the DHS's (that was funny :) ) nor yours.


Cat

shotgunred
06-16-2012, 17:34
Making the assumption that you started with nothing.
A 22 pistol.
A 12 gauge shotgun.
If you could squeeze in a third or wanted a rifle before a shotgun it would have to be a SKS.


SKS are more accurate than AK's.
SKS a legal deer hunting round around here.
SKS use stripper clips or detachable mags.
SKS are a lot cheaper than AK's or AR's

Warp
06-16-2012, 18:30
What is THE most important gun/ammunition to buy before 2013, if I only want one pistol and one long gun? Opinions?

For me it would be a Glock 26 and a Remington 870. Those were two of my first firearm purchases (along with a 10/22).

cyrsequipment
06-17-2012, 05:14
For our friends at DHS ^, and the historically illiterate, in a long term SHTF and/or state crack-down, one of the first dynamics to develop is the 'black' market, covering gaps in the traditional, state-sanctioned supply chain. Do the math from there. Or not, as your capacity dictates.

I find it amusing that your first reply cited that certain comments cause disdain towards certain boards by "serious preppers" and "anti-preppers", and your second comment talks about the inevitability of a black market being developed after some sort of event and your plan to become involved in that black market. :dunno:

The cops ain't gonna sell you anything in a minor event or even a major event. Heck NO ONE is gonna sell you ammo or gun parts if a major event happens. The "history" you were referring to involved war zones where outside forces were selling weapons to the different parties.

Alas, you are still going to think your plan is flawless and that is fine so I will humor you...That is a great plan man, you run with it.:upeyes:

Catshooter
06-17-2012, 09:55
A wise man once said :

A small minority can actually think.

A small minority think they can think.

The vast majority would rather die than think.


Cat

barbedwiresmile
06-19-2012, 04:02
I find it amusing that your first reply cited that certain comments cause disdain towards certain boards by "serious preppers" and "anti-preppers", and your second comment talks about the inevitability of a black market being developed after some sort of event and your plan to become involved in that black market. :dunno:

The cops ain't gonna sell you anything in a minor event or even a major event. Heck NO ONE is gonna sell you ammo or gun parts if a major event happens. The "history" you were referring to involved war zones where outside forces were selling weapons to the different parties.

Alas, you are still going to think your plan is flawless and that is fine so I will humor you...That is a great plan man, you run with it.:upeyes:

I realize that you are flustered by the mere suggestion that the organs of state you identify with could break down in a SHTF or collapse scenario, but are you seriously taking the position of being against the concept of owning firearms for which parts and ammunition are most common? "NO ONE" is going to sell or abandon state property in a SHTF scenario? Ah, the arrogance of state. As for your comments about black markets and the implicit negativity you associate with one's participation, I would remind you that only the state can make a market 'black'. Otherwise it's just a 'market'.

UneasyRider
06-19-2012, 06:03
I realize that you are flustered by the mere suggestion that the organs of state you identify with could break down in a SHTF or collapse scenario, but are you seriously taking the position of being against the concept of owning firearms for which parts and ammunition are most common? "NO ONE" is going to sell or abandon state property in a SHTF scenario? Ah, the arrogance of state. As for your comments about black markets and the implicit negativity you associate with one's participation, I would remind you that only the state can make a market 'black'. Otherwise it's just a 'market'.

:goodpost:

Stevekozak
06-19-2012, 17:00
I realize that you are flustered by the mere suggestion that the organs of state you identify with could break down in a SHTF or collapse scenario, but are you seriously taking the position of being against the concept of owning firearms for which parts and ammunition are most common? "NO ONE" is going to sell or abandon state property in a SHTF scenario? Ah, the arrogance of state. As for your comments about black markets and the implicit negativity you associate with one's participation, I would remind you that only the state can make a market 'black'. Otherwise it's just a 'market'.
Very nice! :thumbsup:

Pitt
06-20-2012, 22:43
glock 17 and an ak47 or 74 with lots of ammo and enough mags for both.

Another thing: Get your ccw license!!. Legislations can be changed and all of a sudden you might find yourself kicking yourself for not getting the permit when you still could or when it was far less hassle, required less paperwork, less expensive, etc.
Ferfal

this.

Pitt
06-20-2012, 22:45
Takedown 10/22 and an assault rifle, my choice would be grab a Arsenal SLR-107 and ultimak it and slap on a T-1 and you're good to go. Also a Glock 19. Glad I already have all of these.

Or this.

Pitt
06-20-2012, 22:48
Me personally:

Ruger SR9
Arsenal AK106 CR (in .223)

Is it the ideal set up? Hell, how should I know. But I'll tell you this, I like my chances with this set up. I do need an Ultimak, offset light mount and a MRDS for this rifle though. I feel like those modifications are real game changers.

RMTactical
06-20-2012, 22:58
Glock 26 and an AR15 for me.

Of course, any reliable/concealable handgun and battle carbine/rifle combo will work.