Anyone ever taken classe from "Gun Site" in Arizona? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mixflip
06-05-2012, 21:48
Im thinking about taking a handgun course from them? Any feed back from GT members?

ca survivor
06-06-2012, 06:49
I like to know too.

Tony Rumore
06-06-2012, 09:13
I had a week long class there, shooting AK's and Glock 9's. I had a good time. Everyone was pretty serious, except me.
I ended up getting yelled at for acting like I was on vacation. I said, "I am on vacation!"

Tony Rumore
Tromix

kashdaddy
06-06-2012, 11:14
its alright! Prefer Thunder Ranch, Texas..............yeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

fnfalman
06-06-2012, 11:43
I had a week long class there, shooting AK's and Glock 9's. I had a good time. Everyone was pretty serious, except me.
I ended up getting yelled at for acting like I was on vacation. I said, "I am on vacation!"

Tony Rumore
Tromix

So, I wasn't the only one who felt that way.

fnfalman
06-06-2012, 11:43
its alright! Prefer Thunder Ranch, Texas..............yeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Isn't it in Oregon or Washington, or one of those granola states now?

Henry's Dad
06-06-2012, 18:26
Just be sure you know what you're signing up for.

I once took a class (I won't say where, but it wasn't with Gun Site) that was described as a defensive pistol class.

The instructors were all IPSC guys and I felt like we spent more time on "competition" skills than anything else. I realize the skills are translatable to defensive needs, but it wasn't what I expected.

fnfalman
06-07-2012, 10:06
Just be sure you know what you're signing up for.

I once took a class (I won't say where, but it wasn't with Gun Site) that was described as a defensive pistol class.

The instructors were all IPSC guys and I felt like we spent more time on "competition" skills than anything else. I realize the skills are translatable to defensive needs, but it wasn't what I expected.

So true, so true.

I've seen videos of various trainings conducted by the high-speed-low-drag commando types with great combat credentials and I asked myself, "WTF, over?"

You think that lil' lady or the fat old guy is going to "close with to point blank range" and shoot at somebody? Or going to be rolling around doing sommersaults on the ground?

Pauld58103
06-07-2012, 10:36
Just got back from Gunsite 250 defensive pistol course. Loved it and learned a lot, but, the previous post about these instructors being "serious" is absolutely true.

The range officer while I was there was ex-military (25 years) and did 5 years with Blackstar after that. Great guy, great instructor but there was NO *******ing around.

It's serious defensive stuff they're teaching, and they push you on speed and accuracy. Guy in my group shot himself in the leg while re-holstering, had to be "lifeflighted" out. Was told the same thing happened the week before.

When I tell you they push you, I mean it.

The Tactical stuff outside and in the "funhouse" was cool - hard, and I strongly believe essential for self defense. Those tactical courses can be seen on YouTube.

I met some GREAT guys in the class, had tons of fun and am going back in October.


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fnfalman
06-07-2012, 10:44
Just got back from Gunsite 250 defensive pistol course. Loved it and learned a lot, but, the previous post about these instructors being "serious" is absolutely true.

The range officer while I was there was ex-military (25 years) and did 5 years with Blackstar after that. Great guy, great instructor but there was NO *******ing around.

It's serious defensive stuff they're teaching, and they push you on speed and accuracy. Guy in my group shot himself in the leg while re-holstering, had to be "lifeflighted" out. Was told the same thing happened the week before.

When I tell you they push you, I mean it.

The Tactical stuff outside and in the "funhouse" was cool - hard, and I strongly believe essential for self defense. Those tactical courses can be seen on YouTube.

I met some GREAT guys in the class, had tons of fun and am going back in October.


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You can be serious without having to be "serious".

I told those people when I went through that they're training me how to do self-defense/combat shooting, but they are not training me to be a soldier. Uncle Sam did it a long time ago.

Rally Vincent
06-07-2012, 11:09
I went a while ago. Just to see what all the hubbub was about.
It was ok. Not really worth the money.

mixflip
06-08-2012, 19:16
Just curious but what gun did the guy shoot himself with?

We recently got the word (form the director of DPS) that we can no longer carry 1911's due to an officer shooting himself in the leg as he reholstered.

Yes I know its not the guns fault. But the brass no longer likes the idea of locked & cocked. So we are screwed out of carrying 1911's now.

ChiefWPD
06-09-2012, 07:13
I've been involved in police and civilian firearms instruction for around 35 years. Too often, very experienced instructors forget their basic function, ensuring that their students are trained to a level that is both practical and task related. I'm not "against" taking training at these various training venues. Indeed, I'm sure you'll come away with additional skills and information that will be of value. None the less, you have to ask yourself, what are my real needs and what tools and tactics will most help me meet these needs.

My 2 cents...

AK_Stick
06-09-2012, 14:29
Just got back from Gunsite 250 defensive pistol course. Loved it and learned a lot, but, the previous post about these instructors being "serious" is absolutely true.

The range officer while I was there was ex-military (25 years) and did 5 years with Blackstar after that. Great guy, great instructor but there was NO *******ing around.

It's serious defensive stuff they're teaching, and they push you on speed and accuracy. Guy in my group shot himself in the leg while re-holstering, had to be "lifeflighted" out. Was told the same thing happened the week before.

When I tell you they push you, I mean it.

The Tactical stuff outside and in the "funhouse" was cool - hard, and I strongly believe essential for self defense. Those tactical courses can be seen on YouTube.

I met some GREAT guys in the class, had tons of fun and am going back in October.


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If they've had two people shoot themselves in 2 weeks, I would REALLY look hard at what they're doing, because they've screwed something up.

seanmac45
06-09-2012, 14:55
Gunsite is NOTHING like it was under the leadership of Jeff Cooper.

ronin.45
06-09-2012, 18:53
If I'm going to a shooting class I'm going to try to have fun. If I got yelled at for having a good time and joking around I'd be pissed. Taking a week off and paying tons of money better net me something fun.

NewWaveGuy
06-09-2012, 19:27
its alright! Prefer Thunder Ranch, Texas..............yeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.



Why do you prefer Thunder Ranch?

Rally Vincent
06-10-2012, 06:43
Just curious but what gun did the guy shoot himself with?

We recently got the word (form the director of DPS) that we can no longer carry 1911's due to an officer shooting himself in the led as he reholstered.

What does an officer shooting himself in the leg have anything to do with the pistol being a 1911 design?

ppicasso
06-10-2012, 08:17
What does an officer shooting himself in the leg have anything to do with the pistol being a 1911 design?

Really?

The 1911 "design" is a single action pistol that will go off if you don't take care to keep your finger away from the trigger during a re-holster. It can happen with other "designs" also, but it is more common with single action only triggers.

oscarthegrouch
06-10-2012, 09:51
Really?

The 1911 "design" is a single action pistol that will go off if you don't take care to keep your finger away from the trigger during a re-holster. It can happen with other "designs" also, but it is more common with single action only triggers.

Really? 'Cause when I holster my 1911, the safety is on, so even if a piece of clothing should accidentally get into the trigger guard, nothings going to go "bang". I always worried about that with my Glock.

G36's Rule
06-10-2012, 09:57
Just got back from Gunsite 250 defensive pistol course. Loved it and learned a lot, but, the previous post about these instructors being "serious" is absolutely true.

The range officer while I was there was ex-military (25 years) and did 5 years with Blackstar after that. Great guy, great instructor but there was NO *******ing around.

It's serious defensive stuff they're teaching, and they push you on speed and accuracy. Guy in my group shot himself in the leg while re-holstering, had to be "lifeflighted" out. Was told the same thing happened the week before.

When I tell you they push you, I mean it.

The Tactical stuff outside and in the "funhouse" was cool - hard, and I strongly believe essential for self defense. Those tactical courses can be seen on YouTube.

I met some GREAT guys in the class, had tons of fun and am going back in October.


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Got to be honest here, if they really have had two people shoot themselves in the past two weeks, they are doing something very wrong.

joecoastie
06-10-2012, 10:46
Really?

The 1911 "design" is a single action pistol that will go off if you don't take care to keep your finger away from the trigger during a re-holster. It can happen with other "designs" also, but it is more common with single action only triggers.

I know, right? Sometimes my 1911s go off just because I look at them funny. :upeyes:

It doesn't matter if the gun is SA, DA/SA, DAO, or Glock style, if you have poor gun handling skills you're more likely to have a negligent discharge.

ZO6Vettever
06-10-2012, 11:07
Any of the "tactical" training courses I've looked at are like boot camp. Been there, done that. That kind of training is for men much younger than me. The best training is praticing drawing in front of a mirror. I had to put up a new mirror. I grew outta the old ones! :rofl:

Dexters
06-10-2012, 12:39
I've been involved in police and civilian firearms instruction for around 35 years. Too often, very experienced instructors forget their basic function, ensuring that their students are trained to a level that is both practical and task related. I'm not "against" taking training at these various training venues. Indeed, I'm sure you'll come away with additional skills and information that will be of value. None the less, you have to ask yourself, what are my real needs and what tools and tactics will most help me meet these needs.

My 2 cents...

This is correct for civilian training. It should be about practical applications - situational awareness, shooting from cover, shooting from various positions, what to do in various situations, shoot, no shoot, pepper spray, retreat, car jacking, when carrying something etc

When they train people for clearing a house (let's not get into 'but my family might be inside') or rushing a target you have to wonder if it is civilian training.

TSAX
06-10-2012, 12:44
Ive seen Ed Head on the a bunch of gun shows on the Outdoor Network for cable. They had one course with a mechanical target on wheels that rolled toward you at different speeds that you would practice moving and shooting at moving objects.

There are a bunch of good schools and instructors out there now a days.






:50cal:

Tony Rumore
06-10-2012, 15:59
Reholstering AD's usually occur because your shirt gets caught in the trigger guard, and as you press down on the gun, the shirt tightens up, pulling the trigger. It doesn't really matter what kind of gun you have, but if you have a manual safety engaged, it prevents it.

I asked one of the Gunsite instructors which type of guns had the most AD's in their classes.
Here is his response:

"Mostly with the Glock/XD/M&P striker fired guns, since there is no other manual safety in place. It’s also mostly with inside the pants type holsters, but not always."

countrygun
06-10-2012, 16:11
Isn't it in Oregon or Washington, or one of those granola states now?


They moved Thunder Ranch to Talent Oregon quite some time ago.

RedHaze
06-10-2012, 21:23
Eventually I'd like to take their HART (High Angle Rifle Training) class. Looks like a damn good time.
Thunder Ranch HART (http://www.gunsmagazine.com/thunder-ranch-hart/)

mr.scott
06-11-2012, 12:50
They yell at you because "that's what they do in the military".
If you are in a shootout where you have to do "tactical" reloads, you are in a world of **** and I hope they taught you how to draw your iPhone from it's Magpul case and dial 911 because youbackup.

Blackshirts
06-11-2012, 15:25
$1500? I would do a weekend at Tough Mudder for around $100. A day of paintball or airsoft war for about the same and take a defensive training class. Still have plenty left to buy a new gun, a couple boxes of ammo and a day at the range.

Rally Vincent
06-12-2012, 06:58
Really?

The 1911 "design" is a single action pistol that will go off if you don't take care to keep your finger away from the trigger during a re-holster. It can happen with other "designs" also, but it is more common with single action only triggers.

Nah. You can't blame stupidity on a 1911 design.
If someone shoots them self with a pistol it's because they are an idiot or didn't have proper training and familiarization with the platform. Hardly the designs fault.

ppicasso
06-12-2012, 07:22
Nah. You can't blame stupidity on a 1911 design.
If someone shoots them self with a pistol it's because they are an idiot or didn't have proper training and familiarization with the platform. Hardly the designs fault.

That's my point. You can't blame a un-lit match sitting on the floor for the fire it could start.

In all my 30+ yrs of shooting, I can honestly say that I've never had a negligent discharge. The reason is my dad taught me how to shoot using a single action semi-auto pistol. I quickly learned how easy it is to light one off.

Rinspeed
06-12-2012, 10:35
They moved Thunder Ranch to Talent Oregon quite some time ago.




Like 10 years ago.

BuzznRose
08-06-2012, 17:53
My wife and I went to Gunsite last October. Several friends asked me to give them a detailed rundown, as did some folks at my IDPA SHOOT. This is what I sent them:

"Our Rookie Gunsite Experience

I am writing this review to give folks food for thought if they are considering taking a class at the Gunsite Academy. My wife and I recently graduated from our first Gunsite course, the 250 Pistol, with strong feelings of relief we made it through, accomplishment in our personal growth, confidence in our new abilities, and sorrow that our week of personal challenge and fellowship with new friends of students and staff was over.

To back up a bit, I retired in 2010 after almost 28 years on active duty in the USAF. My military occupations were logistics and resource management, and my wife, also an Air Force veteran, served 6 years on active duty and now works as an administrative professional. Neither of us had ever received more than basic firearms instruction, and prior to Gunsite, considered ourselves "safe novices" in pistol craft.

Coming to the realization that responsible citizens of our Nation are both armed and competent, we took classes for and received our CHL's, began spending more time at our local shooting range, and while we improved, we wanted to learn the right way. After much research, the Gunsite Academy 250 class became our first choice. We signed up for the 17-21 October class because they had a Ladies 250 class and a standard 250 class running concurrently, and after 21 years of marriage, we knew separate classes would maintain marital tranquility and decrease distractions. While too few women ultimately signed up for a female-only class, there were two separate classes running concurrently. The staff, on our request, ensured we were placed in seperate classes.

My wife will eagerly tell you that for us, separate classes worked great! That said, there were 8 married couples in our two classes of 36 total shooters, and we were the only ones who were separated. The Gunsite instructors were skilled with dealing with the dynamics of "couples", and all went well.

On the drive from our motel to Gunsite on Monday morning, I had a few "butterflies". Rolling under the raven in the cool, post-dawn Arizona morning brough immediate thoughts of a video I saw on the Internet of Col Jeff Cooper teaching a class on trigger control..."take up the slack and press, being surprised of the break while focusing clearly on the front sight". This simple lesson would be stressed throughout the week, and the more I heard it, the tighter my shots became.

Our two classes were a mix of all ages, from twenty-something's to seasoned folks who easily qualified for senior citizen discounts at the local IHOP. Shooting experience also ranged from people who first fired a pistol less than 3 months prior to class, to a well known and prolific gun writer and defensive arms expert whose name I immediately recognized from my mid nineties Guns and Ammo magazine subscription. Other members of our class included a few employees/executives of major arms manufacturers and dealers, several medical professionals, some family pairs, and groups of friends. People who arrived solo were quickly made welcome by others students and instructors, and any expectations of a harsh or negative militaristic environment were swiftly dispelled. In addition, while the firearms industry professionals were clearly more familiar with the environment and Gunsite staff, we did not witness a single incident of favoritism, and all students were treated as equals and guided through drills based on their specific individual student needs. Several students had been to Gunsite classes in the past. Instructor to student ratios were 4:1 and 5:1 in our classes, with immediate tutoring and assistance available at all times.

My four instructors, Jerry McCown, Joe Knapp, and Leslie Andes, led by Range Master Bill Halverson, were awesome! All were consummate professionals, who authoritatively demonstrated in-depth knowledge of pistol-craft based on Colonel Cooper's proven techniques and their own real world training and experience, all while having superb interpersonal skills and unending patience! My wife's instructors, Chris Weare, Walt Wilkinson, Dan McNutt, and Range Master Ed Stock, were equally superb, and she too enjoyed their firearms instruction and mentorship immensely.

I won't go into class specifics, since there are many videos available on the Internet where you can get quick bits of Gunsite instruction, and I plan to use them as I run dry fire/practice drills. However, nothing can compare to your Gunsite instructor holding your support elbow down as you fire two shots center mass..."...front sight...squeeze...and keep your elbow down!"...words I will try to live by. As in most things in life, attention to basics and focused intent combined with disciplined practice yielded marked positive results.

As for all the "extra stuff", Gunsite's support and administrative staff was every bit as professional as their instructor corps. Registration on day one went very smoothly. Our catered lunch each day was fresh, delicious, and awaiting our arrival. Being allergic to gluten, I had the chef salad every day, and it was huge, stuffed with meat, cheese, and vegetables. Others enjoyed excellent sandwiches and wraps, and I heard no complaints from anyone concerning daily chow. Susan in the Pro Shop was excellent, her helpful shooting accessories knowledge and easy going customer service skills were outstanding. My short conversations with Mr. Buz Mills were very personable as well as memorable, and when I mentioned how much I enjoyed a spot he recorded during a "Gun Stories" episode on the Winchester 94, he went right into the story again, expounding with colorful detail how that Montana lawman kicked butt a carbine class with his lever gun. It was very cool!

The capstone to our incredible week at Gunsite was the Friday graduation, where we were invited to tour Col Cooper's home, the Sconce, as guests of Mrs. Janelle Cooper. While Coopers home, including his incredible firearms library and mementos, were amazing, it was meeting Mrs Cooper that truly capped our Gunsite experience. Miss Janelle was a gracious host as she regaled us with stories of life with the colonel, poignant insight into Arizona and Gunsite history and facts, and her thoughtful observations on current National events. Both my wife and I found Mrs. Cooper wonderfully personal and incredibly astute, and thoroughly enjoyed our time spent visiting her.

In summary, we went to Gunsite with a goal of improving our personal defensive pistol skills. We left achieving that goal in spades, but with something much more valuable...the feelings of confidence and security knowing we've grown, both individually as people, and as citizens of our great Nation. And in case there is any question...yes, we will absolutely be back for more."


I am headed back to Gunsite in October for the 350 Pistol and Alumni Shoot. My wife won't make this trip, but we are planning another trip next Summer to bring our daughters for the 250 class.

Yes, it is expensive. But to me, it is a excellent vacation...and I much prefer a shooting vacation over the beach or golf any day!


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RJ's Guns
08-06-2012, 19:11
Gunsite is NOTHING like it was under the leadership of Jeff Cooper.


I took several classes when Jeff Cooper ran the place. There were quality instructors such as Chuck Taylor and Tim Wickett. I learned a lot and I had a great time. I have not been motivated to go back after the change in management. It was a different time and the 1911 was the undisputed King.
RJ

BuzznRose
08-07-2012, 09:16
I took several classes when Jeff Cooper ran the place. There were quality instructors such as Chuck Taylor and Tim Wickett. I learned a lot and I had a great time. I have not been motivated to go back after the change in management. It was a different time and the 1911 was the undisputed King.
RJ

I'm sure it was very cool under Cooper. I've read his 'Gunsite Gossip" and know there was a time after he sold that things went to crap.

I can tell you that Buz Mills was all about bringing it back to Coopers standards, and i think he is succeeding.

They still preach the "gospel of 1911-.45 ACP", but are also very good at incorporating all other firearms, because it is a reality. They hold dedicated 1911 classes, but they also hold a dedicated Glock sponsored class.

And trust me, the Colonel was held in high regard by all, as should be.




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series1811
08-07-2012, 09:23
Gunsite is NOTHING like it was under the leadership of Jeff Cooper.

That's what I was wondering. If the people who run it now are still Cooper trained and Cooper oriented.

<<<<<------- [Still thinks Cooper is the High Priest of Combat] :supergrin:

To me, it's crazy to spend big money and not be sure you are getting good training, AKA Cooper (deceased), Ayoob, Shaw, Smith, etc.

Too many people out there who are clowns with slick websites.

fnfalman
08-07-2012, 09:57
When I went, they still preached the M1911, but at least they're smart enough to know that not everybody likes or even wants an M1911 for combat/self-defense.

My weapon of choice for the 250 class was the P226 with the P225 as backup. I didn't need the P225's service.

My weapon of choice for the 350 class was the P225 with the P226 as backup. I didn't need the P226's service.

My then sister-in-law went with her P225 and my P239 as backup. She didn't need the P239's services. The second time she went with my SW Gunsite and my Springfield M1911 as backup. The Gunsite worked fine throughout the course but she preferred her P225 despite the extra coaching she got for the SW.

I have a dozen M1911, and while they're fun to play with, they ain't all that.

RJ's Guns
08-07-2012, 12:59
I'm sure it was very cool under Cooper. I've read his 'Gunsite Gossip" and know there was a time after he sold that things went to crap.

I can tell you that Buz Mills was all about bringing it back to Coopers standards, and i think he is succeeding.

They still preach the "gospel of 1911-.45 ACP", but are also very good at incorporating all other firearms, because it is a reality. They hold dedicated 1911 classes, but they also hold a dedicated Glock sponsored class.

And trust me, the Colonel was held in high regard by all, as should be.




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As I remember it, the mantra was things were to be “practical”. I know that it gives the people that run, for instance, NRA and IPSC events today, fits/heart attacks, but Col. Cooper ran a “hot range.” The times have changed so much since then that I bet that the vast majority of people on this forum have no idea who Col. Jeff Cooper was or what a “hot range” is.

People have become so politically correct and have lost sight of practicality, that the management of a private range that I belong to even goes so far as to forbid its members, who have concealed weapons permits, from carrying their concealed weapons. It does not matter to those “powers that be” that we leave our handguns concealed and do not handle/touch them while we are at the range, all that matters to them is that we are carrying an evil handgun concealed. After all, everyone knows that my handgun may jump out of my holster and shoot someone.

Although, I was around and part of IPSC during the “early years,” I blame the “gamers” that took over IPSC for a lot of this. However in their defense, when IPSC was just getting started, everyone knew the people competing, new people were watched closely until it was determined that they were safe and could be trusted, but then IPSC really caught on and all sorts of bozos started to show up to compete.

Oh well, such is life and you can never go back, so no sense reminiscing about “the good old days.”

RJ

BuzznRose
08-07-2012, 21:48
That's what I was wondering. If the people who run it now are still Cooper trained and Cooper oriented.

<<<<<------- [Still thinks Cooper is the High Priest of Combat] :supergrin:

To me, it's crazy to spend big money and not be sure you are getting good training, AKA Cooper (deceased), Ayoob, Shaw, Smith, etc.

Too many people out there who are clowns with slick websites.

The guy who says it is nothing like when Cooper ran it SAID he hasn't been there since Cooper ran it...does that make sense?

As far as the quality and experience of the instructors, you can read their bio's on the web site. My instructors were far from inexperienced. One was a 24 year Marine, two others were 30+ year LEO's from AZ and NV, and one had taken classes for many years, had a medical career, and was very good teaching the curriculum.

Gunsite still teaches Weaver stance and stresses practicality. No tricks or gimmicks. Four safety rules are stressed at all times. Aim quickly---shoot carefully. Front sight---press! Don't crowd cover--distance is your friend. Drills start slow and speed increases throughout the week. Practical accuracy (hits in kill zone/not necessarily small groups) is stressed over speed. Slow is smooth---smooth is fast. Safe dry fire practice is stressed as the best way to develop smooth trigger press.

All ranges were hot. Everyone carried weapons in whatever condition they chose. At the end of each session (morning and afternoon) just before leaving the range, you were allowed to set the weapon in the condition you planned on having it when you left the range. Some folks unloaded and bagged their pistols, some kept them in condition 1. I left and carried in condition 1 at all times except if a certain drill required something different.

Just about every Gunsite employee I saw that I remember we're carrying loaded weapons, including the admin staff and the range maintenance folks. Most carried 1911's cocked and locked from what I saw. AZ, especially, around Chino Valley, is a big open carry area.

I can tell you this, in my group, we had several Glocks, some assorted other poly pistols, a couple Sigs and Berettas, and a bunch of 1911's of different makes. The only guns I saw with issues that weren't user caused were 1911's, which owners cleaned religiously. All I did the entire week on my wife's G19 or my G23 was blow out the pistol with the air hose on Wednesday afternoon after class was over.

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BuzznRose
08-07-2012, 21:55
Also, for my next class in October, I plan on bringing and alternating sessions between my G23 and my G26, since I carry both from time to time. I may also bring my G21 just to screw with the 1911 guys. :~)


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RJ's Guns
08-07-2012, 23:44
The guy who says it is nothing like when Cooper ran it SAID he hasn't been there since Cooper ran it...does that make sense?




But then, could not the same argument be made of your comment when you said;

"I can tell you that Buz Mills was all about bringing it back toCoopers standards, and i think he is succeeding."

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it was my impression that you had not taken any courses when Jeff Cooper ran Gunsite, therefore, how do you know if the current management is succeeding in "bringing it back to Coopers standards." I have no opinion on that subject as I do not have any basis upon which to judge the accuracy of your statement.

It is apparent to me, from your glowing and gushing comments, that you are very impressed with the modern day Gunsite, its management and staff. I do not know how many other such course you have had at other facilities so I cannot judge your frame of reference, but if you are pleased, then that is good for you.

RJ

KnotDR
08-08-2012, 07:26
$1500? I would do a weekend at Tough Mudder for around $100. A day of paintball or airsoft war for about the same and take a defensive training class. Still have plenty left to buy a new gun, a couple boxes of ammo and a day at the range.

For $ 1500 I could get two hookers, one a midget, and then wrestle an octopus at the aquarium! Do they still try to get everyone to shoot weaver at Gunsite? Never seen anyone claiming a student a week shooting himself in the leg was something to look for in a shooting school before.

KnotDR
08-08-2012, 07:36
This is correct for civilian training. It should be about practical applications - situational awareness, shooting from cover, shooting from various positions, what to do in various situations, shoot, no shoot, pepper spray, retreat, car jacking, when carrying something etc

When they train people for clearing a house (let's not get into 'but my family might be inside') or rushing a target you have to wonder if it is civilian training.

Your family might be inside. Don't fall into the "I will hide and wait for the police, I don't need to learn how to move through a structure with my gun" nonsense. Sometimes the cops aren't coming or aren't coming before it's too late. Not everyone lives in a suburb with a police station down the road

BuzznRose
08-08-2012, 07:38
But then, could not the same argument be made of your comment when you said;

"I can tell you that Buz Mills was all about bringing it back toCoopers standards, and i think he is succeeding."

Please correct me if I am wrong, but it was my impression that you had not taken any courses when Jeff Cooper ran Gunsite, therefore, how do you know if the current management is succeeding in "bringing it back to Coopers standards." I have no opinion on that subject as I do not have any basis upon which to judge the accuracy of your statement.

It is apparent to me, from your glowing and gushing comments, that you are very impressed with the modern day Gunsite, its management and staff. I do not know how many other such course you have had at other facilities so I cannot judge your frame of reference, but if you are pleased, then that is good for you.

RJ


RJ,

You are correct, I did exactly what I accused you of doing, and that was wrong of me. I'm sorry for that.

Before going, I did a lot of research on other shooting schools. We chose Gunsite based on student reviews and that they seemed very "female friendly". Had to make my wife feel good about the trip.

Guess I did talk the place up, mainly because we really had a helluva time! Best week we've had in 20+ years of marriage with our clothes on. LOL! And while I've had zero experience with other major schools, I do plan on hitting Rogers sometime in the next year if funds allow. No school or training is perfect, but you get a lot of good info and advice in a week.

As far as Mills bringing the school back towards Cooper's school, see "Gunsite Academy (1999-present)" here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunsite_Training_Center#section_1

While Wiki can have bad info, the sources they cite are Coopers own writings (that I've read myself), and are available here: http://www.dvc.org.uk/jeff/

Upon graduation, every student received a copy of "The Modern Technique of the Pistol"...a book Cooper influenced.

As far as firearms training, I've shot for many years but had relatively little advanced training. But I was in class with retires Marines, cops, and an FBI operator and all commended the training. I also saw a mid-age lady who had barely shot transform from a total gun hazard into a competent shooter in a week. They are doing something right.

What struck me most was the fact that I wished that I'd attended a Gunsite class before deploying several times to Iraq. I would have felt much more confident while driving through Baghdad on my many trips between Coalition sites. The USAF didn't waste many training bullets on support folk back in the early 2000's (they are training folks much better these days).

Again, RJ, I had no right to dismiss your views, and I apologize. All I can say is my week was a very positive experience I'm hoping to repeat soon.

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Dawolf
08-08-2012, 07:49
I live about a 45 minutes an hour from it, and having been there when Col Cooper was there, I can honestly say they are trying to live on his legacy. But they are way over priced and cater to people who can afford a lot of "safe queens" which is not me.

RJ's Guns
08-08-2012, 12:22
RJ,

You are correct, I did exactly what I accused you of doing, and that was wrong of me. I'm sorry for that.



Again, RJ, I had no right to dismiss your views, and I apologize. All I can say is my week was a very positive experience I'm hoping to repeat soon.



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Actually, it was not me that made the statement that you criticized it was Originally Posted by seanmac45

“Gunsite is NOTHING like it was under the leadership of JeffCooper.”

I just pointed out the inconsistency of your objection and subsequent comment.

Therefore, for all sorts of reasons no apology is necessary.Anyway, I have a very thick skin, I am, for all practical purposes anonymous on this internet forum and no comment on this forum affects me one way or another.However, I thank you for being so courteous and polite.

RJ