RR : Underwood Nukes , New Wolf GR , and springs [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Rick305
06-06-2012, 13:11
Hi guys , as promised I am going to give a range report now that all my mods are on and my underwood loads arrived.

Gun - G29
Mods being tested (new) - Wolff Guide Rod , 21# Recoil Spring , Replaced 4lb striker with a 6lb.
Other Mods already on gun - Ghost Rocket Kit (complete non drop in)
Ammo - Underwood 135gr Nolsters (1600fps) , UW 165gr Golden Sabers (1400fps) , UW 165gr TMJ (1400fps)
Distance - 15yards
--------------------------

Well I finally got to the range , I first fired the last remaining weako Hydrashock's to see how they functioned with the new RSA , all good - no problems.

I then put in a G20 Mag loaded with 15 of the Nolsters , wow these are definitely NOT Hydrashocks lol. FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE , I had a "jam" -- 3 of them in the G20 mag.

After "calming down" , I can say with 100% certainty that THESE WERE MY FAULT. I was not used to "real 10mm" (which is why I'm giving a RR) , and I will count those FTF's (which were corrected with a tiny pull of the slide) to LIMPWRISTING.

After the first mag I had NO more issues period. I think after that magazine , I got comfortable with ALL the loads and was making AWESOME groups. The unexpected (well , expected) recoil and my nerves most likely caused limpwristing ...

I then fired every round (total round count 139) with no issues whatsoever . I loved the Golden Sabers ... All of the ammo from Underwood is TOP NOTCH .

Once calm (after the first mag with the issues) , I was acitutally surprised that despite the BIG BANG , these rounds were beyond controllable --

Conclusion : The 10mm is one hell of a round when loaded to "true" 10mm potential. I am surprised the round is so "unused" , because I really do think the recoil is no worse then a .45acp. I can't think of another semi auto handgun round that would be better for self defense. I actually think the 10mm is the "perfect" cartridge. I was doing double taps and hitting the same spot with ease. My groups were better then my XDm .45

*other notes - The 6lb striker actually made the rocket kit "crisper". It's a little "less mushy" and very smooth and crisp , I'm glad I added it.

And I found out why I "made a mess" the day I got the gun and tried to reassemble -- I thought the recoil washer was supposed to be seated on the second indent , I found out today after another close "mess" , that I seat it in the bottom dent. So my problem with reassemble was thinking the spring was supposed to be set on the first dent (because it goes into that position when the gun is assembled , and looks that way when you take the slide off) So I also did my first clean !!!! SUCCESSFULLY !!

QUICK QUESTION -- when I was cleaning (just a quick little lube down) when cleaning the metal in the back of the frame I noticed something clicked down (all the way back center I'm stupid and not good with parts/names) , I did a function test and all is well just wondering what that was?

Thanks guys !




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bac1023
06-06-2012, 14:41
Thanks for the report.

Cool stuff :cool:

Ethereal Killer
06-06-2012, 22:43
whats a Nolster?

Rick305
06-07-2012, 10:02
Guys do any of you know what may have clicked during the clean? It was when I was gently lubeing the back center metal part on the frame , it sounded like it reset the trigger ? Function test is fine , any ideas ?


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10mmau
06-09-2012, 11:11
Rick305

I think what you are describing is the trigger bar clicking down into place, back where it meets the connector. I don't know if this is normal or not but I push mine down until it clicks into place with my G20sf prior to reinstalling the slide every time.

If anyone else has any comments on this I would be interested in hearing them.

TDC20
06-09-2012, 12:12
Guys do any of you know what may have clicked during the clean? It was when I was gently lubeing the back center metal part on the frame , it sounded like it reset the trigger ? Function test is fine , any ideas?
I think it was probably the trigger resetting. If you really want to know, do what I do...disassemble your G29 again and poke around back there until you find out what's clicking. If it breaks, it needed fixing anyway. :whistling:

No, I'm certain nothing is broken, but that's how you learn things about how your firearms operate. The more knowledge you have about how your gun operates, the better off you are as a gun owner and a shooter.

gofastman
06-09-2012, 15:56
After "calming down" , I can say with 100% certainty that THESE WERE MY FAULT. I was not used to "real 10mm" (which is why I'm giving a RR) , and I will count those FTF's (which were corrected with a tiny pull of the slide) to LIMPWRISTING.
I dont buy into that "limpwristing" crap (not intended as a jab at you, Rick305). If the gun doesn't function 100% of the time, with any grip, something needs to be fixed.

Rick305
06-09-2012, 20:48
Go fast , I never did buy into limpwristing either but after some reading -- I'm certin that was my issue.

The recoil was definitely more powerful then any handgun round I've shot. The first mag is when the issues went on and it's also when I made the gun go up very fast and unevenly .

I've never shot a reload in my life and never shot a true 10mm either. I've shot some Speer GD's in my day with my XD'm .45 -- but that's about as powerful I've ever gone. Those rounds are definitely not 1600fps UnderWood's.

I am going to bring my stock recoil spring on my next outing with the 135gr's when they come in. The only reason I believe it was LWristing is because out of 139 rounds it only occurred on the first mag , with the hottest load.

Will report results with the stock guide rid and springs.

dm1906
06-09-2012, 21:14
I dont buy into that "limpwristing" crap (not intended as a jab at you, Rick305). If the gun doesn't function 100% of the time, with any grip, something needs to be fixed.

"Limpwristing" is real. Try to understand the physics involved with firing a cartridge. It is simple, but several processes occur during every firing. The action of a semi-automatic pistol relies on one thing to begin, and finish the process. Sir Isaac Newton said it best, "every action has an equal and opposite reaction". As the cartridge ignites/detonates, the ONLY thing that causes the bullet to accelerate is the comparative mass. The "gun", and what secures the "gun", has a greater mass than the bullet. If not, the bullet would fall to the ground, and you and the "gun" would be propelled rearward. What actually happens, is somewhere in between the two extremes, which is where the complete cycle of the action occurs. The bullet accelerates and exits the barrel, and you get some recoil (the energy the bullet didn't take with it). Reduce one end of the formula, and the other end is exaggerated. Consider this. A pistol is lain on the ground, with a remote operated trigger. The trigger is pulled. The bullet accelerates and exits the barrel, but the action may not function, or may not function fully and complete the cycle. This is due to the engineering. The designers of every semi-auto handgun has to take into consideration, the shooter. Someone has to hold the thing well enough to shoot again (or what good is a semi?). This isn't theory, it's fact. If "limpwristing" weren't an issue, we'd have no recoil. Now, this may not fully apply to other types of actions, but does, every time, to the action we are discussing.

swinokur
06-10-2012, 05:53
I agree. I have a G29SF and a G20SF and am shooting Underwood and some old Swampfox (RIP Mike) hot loads. I put in 21 lb springs and SS Wolf guide rods on the advice of some posters and had the same problems on both guns. Constant problems with failure to extract with both guns and the same ammo.

I have a medical condition and I am losing grip strength so I asked a stronger friend of mine to shoot both guns. Not a single problem. I went back to stock weight springs and concentrated on a good strong grip. Not a single problem.

I don't have the issue with my steel Smith and Wesson 10xx series 10mm autos or my Delta Elites in 10mm

Limp wristing IS an issue with Glock handguns in my experience.

My .02 here. Obviously YMMV.

Rick305
06-10-2012, 12:21
My Wolff guide rod is black I don't think it's stainless ... ?


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Rick305
06-10-2012, 12:24
And this is a dumb question , but what exactly is the reason for an upgraded spring ? I'm not talking about the guide rod just what benefits are had from the 21# spring ? Is it supposed to make the recoil easier ?

This is the first handgun I've ever changed springs on , and it was due to advice and "assurance" , I'm not a big range guy but go biweekly . I've never shot/gotten into reloads -- just blazer Speer and hornady's.

So while a long time handgun owner -- I'm new to 10mm and "stupid hot" loads lol.


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dm1906
06-10-2012, 12:33
And this is a dumb question , but what exactly is the reason for an upgraded spring ? I'm not talking about the guide rod just what benefits are had from the 21# spring ? Is it supposed to make the recoil easier ?

This is the first handgun I've ever changed springs on , and it was due to advice and "assurance" , I'm not a big range guy but go biweekly . I've never shot/gotten into reloads -- just blazer Speer and hornady's.

So while a long time handgun owner -- I'm new to 10mm and "stupid hot" loads lol.

Heavier springs generally increase felt recoil, for a couple reasons. Timing is slowed, which delays battery unlock. This means you "feel" more raw impact, as the barrel and slide are still locked in battery. And, more felt recoil during slide action, due to more push through the heavier spring. The offset is a lesser "slam" once the slide is fully rearward. The slide either hits the stop easier, or the spring actually stops the slide before it hits the stop.

Changing springs for no reason other than "advice" or "assurance" (which equates to a phart in a hurricane, meaning nothing "real" to base the assumption) is absolutely the wrong reason. If you have a reason, change it. If you don't, then don't.

swinokur
06-10-2012, 12:56
Wolf SS Guide rods are indeed Painted black. They are sill SS.

gofastman
06-11-2012, 20:14
"Limpwristing" is real
I should clear up what I meant.
I don't doubt the phenomenon exists, but I think a huge majority of the time it is used as a scapegoat for a poorly functioning firearm.

dm1906
06-11-2012, 20:59
I should clear up what I meant.
I don't doubt the phenomenon exists, but I think a huge majority of the time it is used as a scapegoat for a poorly functioning firearm.

Perhaps. But the opposite is equally true. I certainly wouldn't say it's a "huge majority", either way. We can't know all the factors involved.

Ethereal Killer
06-12-2012, 10:45
And this is a dumb question , but what exactly is the reason for an upgraded spring ? I'm not talking about the guide rod just what benefits are had from the 21# spring ? Is it supposed to make the recoil easier ?

This is the first handgun I've ever changed springs on , and it was due to advice and "assurance" , I'm not a big range guy but go biweekly . I've never shot/gotten into reloads -- just blazer Speer and hornady's.

So while a long time handgun owner -- I'm new to 10mm and "stupid hot" loads lol.


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there are no real benefits to changing the spring IMO if you are using factory loads. Only when you are using loads that exceed SAAMI pressures should you start needing a heavier spring.

I'll go further and state my belief that the flexibility of the factory recoil assembly plastic may actually increase reliability over a steel guide rod.

In short, unless you are seeing your frame being battered or shooting over pressure loads that sticking with the factory spring setup is probably the best thing for most shooters.

In my case I actually had to go LOWER in spring weight to a 15# ISMI spring and could even go a step lower if I could. this was with full power 10mm handloads and a compensator tho. the 20# and compensator had feed problems. for the record the full power loads (180gr @ 1250fps) and stock g20 ran just fine and had no signs of battering.

Rick305
06-12-2012, 13:55
Well , I thought last night and I've never had a failure with a handgun of any kind out of 1000's of rounds.

I'm certin "limpwristing" was what caused the malfunction , but god forbid I had to defend myself befeore that range trip -- the guide rod could have been a deadly purchase (for me)

Until I get my XDs in , and plan a range day -- so i can do another test , I'm rolling with the stock guide rod.

Do the 1600fps UW Noelster loads exceed SAMMI ?

I am feeling dumb for the purchase , I was too excited about my G29 and think I could have saved $50 and passed on this guide rod .


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gofastman
06-12-2012, 16:03
Do the 1600fps UW Noelster loads exceed SAMMI ?

no
am feeling dumb for the purchase , I was too excited about my G29 and think I could have saved $50 and passed on this guide rod .

It wasn't a waste, keep the stocker for carry (after you establish that it is reliable)
use the Wolff at the range with a heavy spring to keep the brass closer. You will eventually want to reload it. If you dont think you will reload it, pick it up anyway and Ill buy it from you! (seriously, PM me :supergrin:)

cowboywannabe
06-12-2012, 16:09
true standard 10mm power is in deed a thing of beauty.

Rick305
06-12-2012, 20:01
Yup. The Wolff GRSA is now range only use ...

1 malfunction is 1 too many , not to mention its a glock , and with the wolff setup i experienced a malfunction on the first shot. Thank god again that this happened at the range .. Now that I'm used to this gun and have put over 500 rounds through her --- stock GRSA for CCW nothing else !


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Rick305
06-12-2012, 20:03
I still love my Ghost Rocket -- the 6# striker made it a a little heavier but much more crisp ... (only reason I put the 6# striker on is because Ghost says on glock models in .45/10mm may have light primer strikes with the reduced 4# striker)


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