30 years ago today, Ronald Reagan courageously predicted the demise of Comm [Archive] - Glock Talk

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stsai465
06-08-2012, 10:32
I offer to you this contrast of what we had then and what we have now...

Thirty years ago today Ronald Reagan delivered a speech before the British Parliament that was to become known as the “Westminster Address.” Calling a spade a spade, he summoned courageous language, startling those intimidated by communist aggression. He bravely predicted the demise of communism, the first time an American president had so strongly criticized their system. In the past, a few American presidents had criticized Soviet behavior. They had said we don’t really care what your system is; you can have what you like. Just don’t come after us.

Until June 8, 1982, that is.

“The march of freedom and democracy,” Reagan declared, “will leave Marxism-Leninism on the ash-heap of history as it has left other tyrannies which stifle the freedom and muzzle the self-expression of the people.”


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/08/30-years-ago-today-ronald-reagan-courageously-predicted-demise-communism/#ixzz1xDi2lt6g

What do we have today? "Wait until I'm reelected; I'll be able to be more flexible then..." type grovelling from our current POTUS.

Cavalry Doc
06-08-2012, 10:45
I sure miss the good ol' days.

maxsnafu
06-08-2012, 11:54
I offer to you this contrast of what we had then and what we have now...


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/06/08/30-years-ago-today-ronald-reagan-courageously-predicted-demise-communism/#ixzz1xDi2lt6g

What do we have today? "Wait until I'm reelected; I'll be able to be more flexible then..." type grovelling from our current POTUS.

Little did he know that it would soon morph into cultural Marxism that would infect and fatally degrade the nation, indeed the entire Western world. One need look no farther than that bastion of conservative thought GTPI. Take note of the frequent and promiscuous accusations of racism and you'll see how entrenched and pervasive cultural Marxist "thought" is.

callihan_44
06-08-2012, 12:42
after you listen to some of reagan's speeches makes wonder how we've ended up in the insanity that is today:dunno:

Dexters
06-08-2012, 13:57
What do we have today? "Wait until I'm reelected; I'll be able to be more flexible then..." type grovelling from our current POTUS.

He was right about the demise of communism in the USSR.

He missed the rise of communism in the USA.

countrygun
06-08-2012, 15:30
Little did he know that it would soon morph into cultural Marxism that would infect and fatally degrade the nation, indeed the entire Western world. One need look no farther than that bastion of conservative thought GTPI. Take note of the frequent and promiscuous accusations of racism and you'll see how entrenched and pervasive cultural Marxist "thought" is.


The "cultural Marxism" was in this Country long before Reagan's presidency. In fact, if you want to learn something, take a look at the things he said about why he left the Democratic Party.

The Maggy
06-08-2012, 16:07
Marxism-Leninism was left on the ash-heap of history? When did this happen?

aircarver
06-08-2012, 17:11
Marxism-Leninism was left on the ash-heap of history? When did this happen?

Repeatedly...

...But it keeps rising from the ashes.....:upeyes:

.

The Maggy
06-08-2012, 17:21
Repeatedly...

...But it keeps rising from the ashes.....:upeyes:

.

Hasn't the PCP been the ruling power in China for like 100 years now?

Reagan may have predicted the demise of the USSR; but Communism is still going quiet strong.

juggy4711
06-08-2012, 21:02
Reagan talked a good game unfortunately he was just another step to the left. Though it would be entertaining to have a president as well spoken and clever off the cuff.

certifiedfunds
06-08-2012, 21:40
If our beliefs are correct, the USSR was doomed to implode ANYWAY. If so, the treasure spent in the cold war was wasted.

Cavalry Doc
06-09-2012, 07:13
If our beliefs are correct, the USSR was doomed to implode ANYWAY. If so, the treasure spent in the cold war was wasted.

How much longer would it have taken for the USSR to implode, if they didn't have to try to keep up with us in the battles in other countries, and the arms race.

I don't know either, but I'd guess "a significant bit" longer.

eracer
06-09-2012, 07:20
Ronald Reagan saw the USSR hurtling toward a cliff like Thelma and Louise holding hands and calling it quits. He took credit for the inevitable.

Did the threat of Star Wars defense technology hasten their demise? Perhaps, but it only rewound the movie a few frames.

Cavalry Doc
06-09-2012, 08:34
The cold war was about a lot more than missile defense. It wasn't always cold either.

All in all, communism being the bad thing that it was, it was reasonable to oppose it's expansion.

The past is the past. We'll have to live with it.

maxsnafu
06-09-2012, 10:56
The "cultural Marxism" was in this Country long before Reagan's presidency. In fact, if you want to learn something, take a look at the things he said about why he left the Democratic Party.

The point is while Reagan was battling economic Marxism, cultural Marxism was metastasizing.

countrygun
06-09-2012, 14:26
If our beliefs are correct, the USSR was doomed to implode ANYWAY. If so, the treasure spent in the cold war was wasted.


That is about like saying,

"the fire would have burned itself out, you didn't need to go and call the Fire Department":upeyes:

certifiedfunds
06-09-2012, 14:49
That is about like saying,

"the fire would have burned itself out, you didn't need to go and call the Fire Department":upeyes:

So is communism a viable economic system?

countrygun
06-09-2012, 14:53
So is communism a viable economic system?


So the Isalmic Caliphate is an idea that can't work and we should not do anything to resist it either?

Cavalry Doc
06-09-2012, 14:56
So is communism a viable economic system?

Actually, yes, if you stick to it. On paper, it's almost a perfect system. But it fails to take into account, human nature. People want, those in power get, those not in power, don't. The inequality leads to bad morale for the masses. Eventually, the peasants are at the gates with torches and pitchforks.

Cavalry Doc
06-09-2012, 14:56
So the Isalmic Caliphate is an idea that can't work and we should not do anything to resist it either?

I don't think he was going quite that far....

countrygun
06-09-2012, 15:01
I don't think he was going quite that far....


Probably not, but I think it is ludicrous to look at decisions made in the past, with the danger in front of us, and second guess those decisions based on what we know now. Who knew HOW LONG the Soviet Union COULD have held out without our pressure?

Cavalry Doc
06-09-2012, 15:46
Probably not, but I think it is ludicrous to look at decisions made in the past, with the danger in front of us, and second guess those decisions based on what we know now. Who knew HOW LONG the Soviet Union COULD have held out without our pressure?

Hindsight is always 20/60, in spite of the cliche.

There are things I would have done differently, if I knew then what I know now. But I don't dwell on it. It doesn't help anything.

I don't Love Ronald Reagan. I liked him a lot. When he said the bombs were dropping at midnight, you could guarantee the bomb bay doors were open at 11:59. Leading from a position of strength is a good thing. All in all, he did a very good job in a very bad time. I remember those years. It wasn't a question of if we were going to war with the USSR, but when. Now? well who really knows, but it looks like he did as good as anyone else could have under the same circumstances, probably better.

Ringo S.
06-09-2012, 19:29
Actually, yes, if you stick to it. On paper, it's almost a perfect system. But it fails to take into account, human nature. .

You're right, but! Human nature is dual, it's Idividualistic and collective. Humans are collective animals animal as apes or wolves. Man can not live outside of society (there are cases where people had remained for several years on a desert island and lost their minds).
Terms of American way of life, to the lack of an external threat, favorable climate and the emergence of the United States at the moment in history of change from feudalism to capitalism, promoted idividualizm as a way of life.
The conditions under which Russia has historically developed, was not favorable to the development of individualism, because for survival were always a collective effort needed. To fight external enemies and to fight climate conditions. Individual farming was virtually impossible in Russia for most of it's history.
And that's why socialism, with its centralized economy, did not become a stranger for Russia (as it would be for the U.S.). On the contrary, in full focus, Russia or Soviet Union, was able to achieve unprecedented economic growth rates.
And if the Stalinist way in economic development and policy has remained unchanged ... We have now lived in another, better world ... In ideal world, countries with capitalist and socialist economies would compete, and we all saw, how profitable this competition was for science, for example.
We could be on Mars today, if not for this bastard Gorby and his henchmen...

Cavalry Doc
06-09-2012, 19:34
You're right, but! Human nature is dual, it's Idividualistic and collective. Humans are collective animals animal as apes or wolves. Man can not live outside of society (there are cases where people had remained for several years on a desert island and lost their minds).
Terms of American way of life, to the lack of an external threat, favorable climate and the emergence of the United States at the moment in history of change from feudalism to capitalism, promoted idividualizm as a way of life.
The conditions under which Russia has historically developed, was not favorable to the development of individualism, because for survival were always a collective effort needed. To fight external enemies and to fight climate conditions. Individual farming was virtually impossible in Russia for most of it's history.
And that's why socialism, with its centralized economy, did not become a stranger for Russia (as it would be for the U.S.). On the contrary, in full focus, Russia or Soviet Union, was able to achieve unprecedented economic growth rates.
And if the Stalinist way in economic development and policy has remained unchanged ... We have now lived in another, better world ... In ideal world, countries with capitalist and socialist economies would compete, and we all saw, how profitable this competition was for science, for example.
We could be on Mars today, if not for this bastard Gorby and his henchmen...

In any system involving humans, how can you legitimately fail to consider human nature?

You can't. Unless you don't know much about human nature.

Ringo S.
06-09-2012, 21:12
In any system involving humans, how can you legitimately fail to consider human nature?

You can't. Unless you don't know much about human nature.

I didn't fail. Because the first order of human nature is, and always was - to Stay alive, and then alive, and not in slavery. After this, goes lesser luxuries, as for example, to live in "free society". Not all the people and even countries in history had this luxury, to care foremost for "freedom for individuals". Some countries had some serious stuff to care about...
Thanks to government education, american public think, that all that "how west was won" and rest of the story, was real serious stuff... They blessed to not to know, that americah history was pretty easy ride, compare to some other parts of the world... Look at the latest sample in recent history, WWII, for example. Compare, what this war was meant for USSR and for USA and you can have idea about differencies in USA and USSR way in history, and why socialism, that so wrong for USA, could be very healthy for other countries. It is a big, wide world, you know.