New 20sf, had a fte [Archive] - Glock Talk

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txgunguy
06-08-2012, 15:07
Just took it out. In the first 20 rounds I had a fail to extract. Round went off, pulled the trigger again and got a click. I was using underwood ammo 180gr fmj. I ejected the mag, and when i racked the slide, the empty case came out. The gun is stock right now. Do I need a heavier recoil spring when shooting hot ammo like this? What could cause this besides the slide moving too fast?

Update:
Had 3 FTEjects this afternoon 6/14. It only did this with 165gr ammo. Pics included in later post.

GRT45
06-08-2012, 15:34
Perhaps the one round was slightly out of spec with an over-sized case. For a new gun test or before a competition, some shooters will remove the barrel and drop in every cartridge from the ammo box for a barrel check. It should drop in freely, all the way, and drop out freely when the barrel is inverted.

txgunguy
06-08-2012, 15:52
Perhaps the one round was slightly out of spec with an over-sized case. For a new gun test or before a competition, some shooters will remove the barrel and drop in every cartridge from the ammo box for a barrel check. It should drop in freely, all the way, and drop out freely when the barrel is inverted.

I'm thinking the round may not have had a full charge. It did not have the recoil the other rounds did. The extractor had a grip on the case, so I think the only way that round didn't extract was that it short stroked or the case was out of spec. All other rounds fed fine. Federal 10mm, Underwood 165gr gold dot, 180gr gold dot, and the 180gr tmj. This one round was the only one that did it. The case didn't seem to be out of spec so I'm leaning toward a bad charge.

bac1023
06-08-2012, 16:56
Congrats on the G20.

txgunguy
06-08-2012, 17:19
Congrats on the G20.

Thanks but I'm not really happy about the fte lol

TDC20
06-08-2012, 18:16
Sounds like a very unusual squib load to me, since you noticed a marked difference in recoil, too. You should always clear the gun, field strip, and check to make sure the barrel is not obstructed when this happens before continuing to shoot.

I would note this as most likely being a one-off anomaly and continue on with my break-in. If you don't have any more problems in the next 200-300 rds, then I'd say it was just an under-charged load and not worry about it. It might be best to try running a couple hundred rounds of some other type of ammo to be sure it's not a bad ammo lot causing the problem, as there could be more than one in there.

Congratulations on the new G20SF!

txgunguy
06-08-2012, 18:55
Sounds like a very unusual squib load to me, since you noticed a marked difference in recoil, too. You should always clear the gun, field strip, and check to make sure the barrel is not obstructed when this happens before continuing to shoot.

I would note this as most likely being a one-off anomaly and continue on with my break-in. If you don't have any more problems in the next 200-300 rds, then I'd say it was just an under-charged load and not worry about it. It might be best to try running a couple hundred rounds of some other type of ammo to be sure it's not a bad ammo lot causing the problem, as there could be more than one in there.

Congratulations on the new G20SF!

I did some digging and a member on the smith & wesson forum had this same thing happen with Underwood ammo. The members there seem to think the extractor slipped off the case due to the early unlocking of the gun. He explained it as the case has not finished expanding and is stuck to the chamber wall while the slide begins to move back.

I really think this is exactly what happened because I have a perfect brass marking on the OUTSIDE of the extractor. The only way that would have got there was if it came off the round because I never drop a round in the chamber.

So the case was in the chamber, the extractor slipped off, no new round was chambered, and the extractor was slammed back onto the original case in the chamber.

The guy on the S&W forum said he got a heavier recoil spring and it fixed his issues. I planned to do this anyway. It doesn't make sense to me to have the same recoil spring weight for a 9mm and full power 10mm. Evidently this can happen with hot 10mm ammo, which Underwood definitely is.

4949shooter
06-08-2012, 19:30
I am going to try this on my 20SF as well. What weight are you going with? I am thinking a 20 pound spring weight.

txgunguy
06-08-2012, 19:50
I am going to try this on my 20SF as well. What weight are you going with? I am thinking a 20 pound spring weight.

Did you have an FTE as well? I see alot of people recommending 22# springs. I may get a that for these hot Underwood loads.

SPIN2010
06-08-2012, 20:14
Picture of the case maybe? Sounds like the slide was not imparted enough energy from the round to even get past the case length ... put the empty case right back in the chamber (i.e. light charge).

4949shooter
06-08-2012, 21:16
Did you have an FTE as well? I see alot of people recommending 22# springs. I may get a that for these hot Underwood loads.

I had a few failure to extracts.

Ethereal Killer
06-09-2012, 01:00
Dude!! you are overthinking this. it sounds really simple to me. most likely a dud round.

In ANY event a new gun will take a bit of shooting to get all the parts settled in and smoothed out a bit before it will run a peak efficiency. IME at least 200 rounds of good ammo thru most guns will do the trick.

personally I wont give a gun the holy trinity of awesome good to go-ness until around 500-1000 rounds and I will do what I can to induce failures so I can see where it's limits are. a man needs to know his weapon if he is gonna count on it for anything other than just playing.

TKM
06-09-2012, 01:04
If a full power 10 load can push 700 fpe I'm sure it can make it's way out of the chamber.

Something else is wrong.

txgunguy
06-09-2012, 05:01
Killer,
I understand breaking in a new gun, but I've never had to break in a glock before. I'm going to get a heavier recoil spring and go to the range again next week. If it doesn't happen again, I'm going to attribute it to a bad round.

txgunguy
06-09-2012, 05:04
Picture of the case maybe? Sounds like the slide was not imparted enough energy from the round to even get past the case length ... put the empty case right back in the chamber (i.e. light charge).

This is what I thought at first. The case looks normal. The round went off but didnt recoil like normal. It was definitely loud so it was not a squib. Possibly not enough charge to cycle the slide.

4949shooter
06-09-2012, 05:27
Last night the SS recoil springs were on sale at glockmeister for $20. I log on this morning, and they are back to $24. :steamed:

tyr0981
06-09-2012, 06:45
just my .02, i tried a heavier spring (a 19lb with a steel guide rod) because i was using Underwood 200 Grain, and it instantly ruined my reliability, Fail to loads mostly, Failed to ejects, stove piped a few, that was just the first 10rnds! i put the OEM plastic/15lb spring back in, and it was FLAWLESSLY functional!

I'm on the side of you may be overlooking this way too deeply, even brand new manufactures produce the occasional lemon, and i think you got 1.... before spending 40$ on another spring/rod, dump a couple more boxes down range (maybe some mood stabilizers too) and go from their my man. :supergrin:

txgunguy
06-09-2012, 07:16
just my .02, i tried a heavier spring (a 19lb with a steel guide rod) because i was using Underwood 200 Grain, and it instantly ruined my reliability, Fail to loads mostly, Failed to ejects, stove piped a few, that was just the first 10rnds! i put the OEM plastic/15lb spring back in, and it was FLAWLESSLY functional!

I'm on the side of you may be overlooking this way too deeply, even brand new manufactures produce the occasional lemon, and i think you got 1.... before spending 40$ on another spring/rod, dump a couple more boxes down range (maybe some mood stabilizers too) and go from their my man. :supergrin:

Thats very strange. Everything I've read, 10mm guys swear by using heavier recoil springs.

dpadams6
06-09-2012, 08:20
Killer,
I understand breaking in a new gun, but I've never had to break in a glock before. I'm going to get a heavier recoil spring and go to the range again next week. If it doesn't happen again, I'm going to attribute it to a bad round.

Typically in the 10mm glocks, NOTHING is gonna be as reliable as the stock rsa.

Ethereal Killer
06-09-2012, 08:45
Thats very strange. Everything I've read, 10mm guys swear by using heavier recoil springs.

In this case I am stumped why you would think that making it MORE difficult to extract or SLOWING the extraction down would be a solution to a failure to extract?

Heavier springs are used to increase the time it takes to extract and eject the case when very heavy loads are used. the main drawback to using a lighter spring is that the frame gets battered when you are using loads over SAAMI spec pressures consistently.

Factory recoil spring and guide actually have a lot of advantages IMO, so unless you are flinging brass into the next county or seeing the frame get damaged at the front contact area, then the spring is NOT your issue.

Ethereal Killer
06-09-2012, 08:49
Killer,
I understand breaking in a new gun, but I've never had to break in a glock before. I'm going to get a heavier recoil spring and go to the range again next week. If it doesn't happen again, I'm going to attribute it to a bad round.

newer glocks and in fact MOST new guns are made with different manufacturing processes that make them modular. this modularity means that they all undergo some break-in during the first few rounds. You may not have thought you were breaking in a glock before but you were in fact doing so just by shooting. just because you didnt have issues didnt mean it wasnt happening.

I seriously doubt there is anything wrong with your gun, just clena it up and lube it then go back to shooting it. this is not a full fledged internet emergency... you had a dud.

alwaysshootin
06-09-2012, 09:11
I'm thinking the round may not have had a full charge. It did not have the recoil the other rounds did. The extractor had a grip on the case, so I think I'm leaning toward a bad charge.

Would not give it a second thought, you answered your own question. If it felt different, it was. If it felt under charged, it was. It happens!

If you have a good reliable scale, weigh a magazine full, and shoot them. If everything runs as supposed to, keep weighing until you find one that is 5+ grains lighter than the others. Then shoot the lighter ones and see if they run. From that point on, weigh each and every round in a box, and mark the lighter weighing ones with a black felt tip on the primer. Make sure to shoot them at the range, so if there is a mishap again, you'll know the culprit. This should instill the confidence back in your G20, and your choice of ammo.

TDC20
06-09-2012, 11:25
I did some digging and a member on the smith & wesson forum had this same thing happen with Underwood ammo. The members there seem to think the extractor slipped off the case due to the early unlocking of the gun. He explained it as the case has not finished expanding and is stuck to the chamber wall while the slide begins to move back.

I really think this is exactly what happened because I have a perfect brass marking on the OUTSIDE of the extractor. The only way that would have got there was if it came off the round because I never drop a round in the chamber.

So the case was in the chamber, the extractor slipped off, no new round was chambered, and the extractor was slammed back onto the original case in the chamber.

The guy on the S&W forum said he got a heavier recoil spring and it fixed his issues. I planned to do this anyway. It doesn't make sense to me to have the same recoil spring weight for a 9mm and full power 10mm. Evidently this can happen with hot 10mm ammo, which Underwood definitely is.
I think you may be correct on the extractor slipping over the brass rim. We were just discussing this phenomenon over on the 10mm reloading forum. Check out the last 8-10 posts on this thread:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1404729

I shoot a Wolff uncaptured 22# spring and rod guide in my G20 (you can get them as a set for under $30) with everything including my .40 S&W conversion barrel, and it's 100% reliable. I even CCW my G20 with this spring and guide rod. For me, there are really only 2 minor downsides to running the heavier spring, harder to rack the slide (could be a difference maker in a gunfight if you are wounded) and the recoil impulse is slightly higher. Competition shooters also claim it slows down quick follow-up shots, which I do believe it probably does if you're shooting the way they do, but I don't. I thought the whole point of shooting the 10mm is that you don't need no steenking follow-up shot! :tongueout:

One other thing to consider if you are worried about spending the $30 on the spring and guide rod is there could be a problem with your extractor and/or your extractor spring. Take a look at my avatar pic. That's my trigger safety from my G20 after appx. 250 rounds. Obviously a defective plating process from the factory, and Glock wouldn't send me a new one (said they could only have a certified Glock armorer do the swap, which would have cost me more in gas to get to one than the part was worth, so I bought and replaced it myself). I'm guessing that, like every manufacturer these days, they are sub-contracting some of their small parts and springs out to other vendors to save money. It's possible that your extractor spring is bad from the factory, or that your extractor has a defect such that it's not properly grabbing the rim of the brass. You may want to check on that first.

Honestly though, when you get this ironed out, I think you will be impressed with the G20. It's an incredible platform for the 10mm. Good luck and be safe!

dm1906
06-09-2012, 11:47
Is this still ONE FTE, or do you have a trend of FTE's?

blastfact
06-09-2012, 12:55
Sounds like a fluke to me.

The only thing the stock RSA did for me was batter the frame a tad and made the brass fly out of sight and allow the pistol to unlock a tad faster than I like. Seems to be a Glock trait judging by the smeared primers seen laying around everywhere in once shot brass.

Put in a 22# spring and SS guide rod and all is well. No battering, No brass flying out of sight and nice clean primer strikes. Also shoot a 5.15" LW Barrel. Chambers and extracts great! Don't need no sloppy $2.00 whore loose chamber in my otherwise wonderful pistol.

The only way I could see a extractor slipping off the brass would be if the hot load bulged the brass a hair thus pushing the brass up and back a tad causing the extractor to have a slam grab on the edge of the brass.

Just shoot the crap out of it and move on. :)

txgunguy
06-09-2012, 13:16
Would not give it a second thought, you answered your own question. If it felt different, it was. If it felt under charged, it was. It happens!

If you have a good reliable scale, weigh a magazine full, and shoot them. If everything runs as supposed to, keep weighing until you find one that is 5+ grains lighter than the others. Then shoot the lighter ones and see if they run. From that point on, weigh each and every round in a box, and mark the lighter weighing ones with a black felt tip on the primer. Make sure to shoot them at the range, so if there is a mishap again, you'll know the culprit. This should instill the confidence back in your G20, and your choice of ammo.

I didn't think of that. What brand of scale would you recommend? I don't have a good one right now.

TDC20,
All the parts are brand new and look good.

dm1906,
Yes I had one FTE in 125 rounds. I haven't got a chance to go shoot again yet.

ETA: The extractor spring is nice and tight so I doubt there is anything wrong there.

Tablerock
06-09-2012, 13:57
I'd say shoot it, shoot it, shoot it......and then shoot it some more. My brand new Glock 20 SF had fte when it was brand new. Didn't matter if it was factory ammo, my re-loads, or nickee10mm's handloads. I learned to eject the stuck round, give the gun a good cussin' and shoot it some more. And after awhile, it was shooting 100% perfect. No ftf or fte...I'm with etherealkiller. Sometimes a new Glock (or any new gun) needs more break-in then others. I wouldn't spend a penny on it until you're sure it's never going to be right. lol

dm1906
06-09-2012, 14:39
I didn't think of that. What brand of scale would you recommend? I don't have a good one right now.

TDC20,
All the parts are brand new and look good.

dm1906,
Yes I had one FTE in 125 rounds. I haven't got a chance to go shoot again yet.

ETA: The extractor spring is nice and tight so I doubt there is anything wrong there.

Weighing of loaded cartridges is never a reliable method of determining component capacities by an end user. Primary OEM suppliers (Remington, Winchester, Federal, etc.) do, but they maintain their standards for the components, manufacture the components, and assemble the components. Secondary manufacturers (Underwood, BB, DT, etc.) only assemble components sourced elsewhere, essentially using retail components available to end users. The variations within individual components, and the variation of assembled cartridges can span several grains. For example, I weighed 50 rounds (within the last couple hours, on a reliable, calibrated scale) of Remington .380 Auto factory rounds. Not target rounds, but common full power HP high dollar rounds. While most were within the upper end of 1 grain, the extreme spread was over 3 grains, with one right at 4 grains. This is a small round, with a very light bullet, small case, and light powder charge, compared to the 10mm. Weigh 10, and multiply the ES by 10. Using this as a standard, you could theorize that the possible weight difference of these 10 rounds (still using the .380 for reference), is more than a complete powder charge of a typical 10mm. Add to that, unless you disassemble every round and weigh each component individually, you have no way of knowing which component is over/under weight, or what an ideal round should weigh. Increasing your sample count (number of rounds) improves the accuracy of an average, but also increases the number of variables. In the end, weighing complete cartridges is not a reliable method of determining anything, other than if you started with ten, and ended with ten, you didn't lose any.

Ultimately at this time, you only know you had one FTE, and nothing more. Any weapon and ammo combination can experience unexplained failures, for any of a hundred reasons. Unless you discover an obvious cause, concerning yourself about 1 failure in 125, or even 4-5 in 1,000, don't lose sleep over it. Glock won't, and I'm sure Underwood won't. Underwood will probably want to compensate you in some way, because that's how they operate. If you complain to Glock, they'll tell you to return the pistol to them for testing. After a few months, they'll send it back and tell you nothing is wrong. That's the way they operate. Unless you develop a trend, there's nothing to worry about. Keep in mind, the cartridge that failed you is intended to perform at an extreme of a pistol design. If failures are to happen, that's where it will be.

All that said, if you feel concerned or have lost confidence in your equipment, for any reason, go full tilt and do what you have to do to set your mind at ease. You may have to rely on the equipment to protect yourself or loved ones from harm, and you don't need THAT zombie following you. There are enough of the other zombies to deal with....

txgunguy
06-09-2012, 15:56
DM1906,

I appreciate the advice. I haven't lost confidence in the weapon yet as it was during the first 20 rounds, and i fired the next 110 trouble free, with different magazines.

I still feel as though a heavier spring would benefit me. Using a 17# spring for a 115gr 9mm, and the same spring for hot 10mm, doesn't seem logical. If for nothing else to not chase my brass way down the range.

dm1906
06-09-2012, 16:21
DM1906,

I appreciate the advice. I haven't lost confidence in the weapon yet as it was during the first 20 rounds, and i fired the next 110 trouble free, with different magazines.

I still feel as though a heavier spring would benefit me. Using a 17# spring for a 115gr 9mm, and the same spring for hot 10mm, doesn't seem logical. If for nothing else to not chase my brass way down the range.

Don't pay any attention to the spring weights, model to model. The 9mm is a small frame, with a significantly lesser mass slide and barrel, with a very different type of recoil, compared to the 10mm. Unless you are doing something very different than the engineers, don't try to out-engineer them.

A fully OEM pistol should have managed the rounds you put through them. Changing the spring may or may not necessarily be a bad idea, but not for the reason you state now. I suggest feeding the thing what it likes, for now. Get outside the box after you have some (hundreds/thousands) rounds through it, and upgrade accordingly. Patience has it's rewards. Get to know it, before you change it. You may miss something important if you don't. If the pistol has a problem, and you start changing things, you may cover the problem until it becomes a real problem. No good things come from that.

txgunguy
06-09-2012, 17:33
Don't pay any attention to the spring weights, model to model. The 9mm is a small frame, with a significantly lesser mass slide and barrel, with a very different type of recoil, compared to the 10mm. Unless you are doing something very different than the engineers, don't try to out-engineer them.

A fully OEM pistol should have managed the rounds you put through them. Changing the spring may or may not necessarily be a bad idea, but not for the reason you state now. I suggest feeding the thing what it likes, for now. Get outside the box after you have some (hundreds/thousands) rounds through it, and upgrade accordingly. Patience has it's rewards. Get to know it, before you change it. You may miss something important if you don't. If the pistol has a problem, and you start changing things, you may cover the problem until it becomes a real problem. No good things come from that.

Thats true. If there is an issue, and it wasn't a bad round, I don't want to cover it up.

One thing I noticed with the OEM spring, is when I field strip the gun, it is really loose against the barrel lug. I'm not new to glocks so I know how it moves during re assembly.

I dont own any other large frame glocks so I wonder, is this normal for the large frames? I mean the spring requires 0 effort to be removed. It's practically falling out.

blastfact
06-09-2012, 17:45
Thats true. If there is an issue, and it wasn't a bad round, I don't want to cover it up.

One thing I noticed with the OEM spring, is when I field strip the gun, it is really loose against the barrel lug. I'm not new to glocks so I know how it moves during re assembly.

I dont own any other large frame glocks so I wonder, is this normal for the large frames? I mean the spring requires 0 effort to be removed. It's practically falling out.

It's common with all Glocks. And a upgraded RSA won't change it over all.

alwaysshootin
06-09-2012, 20:47
Spring weights are rather trivial, considering the weight differences in slides. Throwing of brass further than findable, on the other hand, can be controlled with heavier spring weights.

As far as scales go, any of the inexpensive digitals will do. Just look for discrepancies between weights. Then narrow down to regain confidence in your ammo and firearm. That's why I said look for 5 grain differences, if in fact you are finding that range of discrepancy, confidence being regained will be a must. I think your experience is rare, but like I said, happens. If you find only 5 grains of variance, and they run, confidence will be gained, which is, what you are looking for. If 10 grain variance is found, and they don't run, you know what to look out for!!!!

Taterhead
06-09-2012, 21:17
Thats very strange. Everything I've read, 10mm guys swear by using heavier recoil springs.

Not me.

I have a 22# spring and steel guide rod for my G20, but it is not 100% reliable with hot loads. It runs good with medium to medium warm loads, but it is only about 90-95% reliable with hot loads. The stock RSA is 100%, and felt recoil is lighter for most loads. They cost about $7, and I replace them after every 3000 rounds.

The only time my G20 had failures with the stock RSA, is when I had literally worn out my ejector. Another $7 part, and I am again 100% function.

Taterhead
06-09-2012, 21:22
Don't pay any attention to the spring weights, model to model. The 9mm is a small frame, with a significantly lesser mass slide and barrel, with a very different type of recoil, compared to the 10mm. Unless you are doing something very different than the engineers, don't try to out-engineer them.

A fully OEM pistol should have managed the rounds you put through them. Changing the spring may or may not necessarily be a bad idea, but not for the reason you state now. I suggest feeding the thing what it likes, for now. Get outside the box after you have some (hundreds/thousands) rounds through it, and upgrade accordingly. Patience has it's rewards. Get to know it, before you change it. You may miss something important if you don't. If the pistol has a problem, and you start changing things, you may cover the problem until it becomes a real problem. No good things come from that.

Totally agree 100% on both paragraphs.

Shoot at least a thousand rounds through it and then see if there is a need to start changing parts.

dm1906
06-09-2012, 21:32
Spring weights are rather trivial, considering the weight differences in slides. Throwing of brass further than findable, on the other hand, can be controlled with heavier spring weights.

As far as scales go, any of the inexpensive digitals will do. Just look for discrepancies between weights. Then narrow down to regain confidence in your ammo and firearm. That's why I said look for 5 grain differences, if in fact you are finding that range of discrepancy, confidence being regained will be a must. I think your experience is rare, but like I said, happens. If you find only 5 grains of variance, and they run, confidence will be gained, which is, what you are looking for. If 10 grain variance is found, and they don't run, you know what to look out for!!!!

I agree with this statement. A 5 grain difference with a single round is reason for concern. Your original suggestion was to weigh a full magazine. That would suggest a possible .5 grain difference per round (average, with a 10 round mag, or .3 with a 15), which is well within any measure of tolerance, and nearly impossible to isolate. We shouldn't have to concern ourselves with such menial details with commercially produced ammo. It's just so rare, it isn't a factor. If it becomes a regular issue, dump the ammo and move on to another brand. Keep it simple.

txgunguy
06-09-2012, 21:44
I agree with this statement. A 5 grain difference with a single round is reason for concern. Your original suggestion was to weigh a full magazine. That would suggest a possible .5 grain difference per round (average, with a 10 round mag, or .3 with a 15), which is well within any measure of tolerance, and nearly impossible to isolate. We shouldn't have to concern ourselves with such menial details with commercially produced ammo. It's just so rare, it isn't a factor. If it becomes a regular issue, dump the ammo and move on to another brand. Keep it simple.

I hope it isn't an issue with the ammo, as I really liked underwood. They were all very clean and well made. None of the other rounds from them did it, which makes me more inclined to chalk it up as a fluke.

dm1906
06-09-2012, 21:54
I hope it isn't an issue with the ammo, as I really liked underwood. They were all very clean and well made. None of the other rounds from them did it, which makes me more inclined to chalk it up as a fluke.

It isn't the ammo. Every mfg can have a bad one. It was a generalized statement. Underwood is good stuff, if you don't roll your own. Shoot some more. If it doesn't happen again, it was a fluke. If it happens again from the same lot of bullets, it was still a fluke. Underwood will replace them. Don't worry about it unless it repeats with other rounds, or under other conditions. One FTE in 125 rounds is NOT anything to be concerned about. There are just too many variables to consider.

txgunguy
06-09-2012, 22:07
It isn't the ammo. Every mfg can have a bad one. It was a generalized statement. Underwood is good stuff, if you don't roll your own. Shoot some more. If it doesn't happen again, it was a fluke. If it happens again from the same lot of bullets, it was still a fluke. Underwood will replace them. Don't worry about it unless it repeats with other rounds, or under other conditions. One FTE in 125 rounds is NOT anything to be concerned about. There are just too many variables to consider.

I contacted them to see if anyone else had reported this issue with this load. Kevin, at underwood, stated they hadn't had any other reports. He then offered me $10 off my next order. I was not asking for anything but he extended that offer. I thought that was generous but was really just seeing if they had any known issues with that lot, just to rule that possibility out.

I don't load my own yet so their ammo is my first choice.

dm1906
06-09-2012, 22:13
I contacted them to see if anyone else had reported this issue with this load. Kevin, at underwood, stated they hadn't had any other reports. He then offered me $10 off my next order. I was not asking for anything but he extended that offer. I thought that was generous but was really just seeing if they had any known issues with that lot, just to rule that possibility out.

I don't load my own yet so their ammo is my first choice.

Good deal. I figured they'd take care of you.

When you're ready to start doing your own, be very careful the advice you take. There's a LOT more bad advice out there than good. A lot of well-meaning guys with way better luck then me. It's a science, and you MUST learn it that way. If not, you'll rely on your luck.

robert91922
06-10-2012, 14:46
Such FTE issue happened several times w. my own hot loads (1360fps/180gr) and when chamber was already quite dirty. But that spent case didn't stuck in chamber, it was easy to pull it out with knife blade few seconds later.
Therefore my conclusion was: slide moved back too quick, it traveled back when gas pressure was still pushing brass to the chamber walls and extractor jumped over the edge of brass. There was some more friction too because chamber walls were dirty.
Happened only in aftermarket IGB barrel w. full chamber support and less chamber space compared to oem barrel.
Now this IGB barrel has at least 3000 round through and it does not happen again. No, I didn't polish the chamber but a lot of cleaning has similar effect IMO.
I carry G20 in woods w. IGB barrel cause I don't dare to shoot my hottest loads in oem barrel. But every time before going to bushes I clean shiny the barrel/chamber and lubricate my gun as well just to be 200% sure it works flawlessly if my life depends on it.
On the other side I shoot all factory G17 at IPSC/Stock Division matches and clean it only twice a year. Not because I have to, it's just to show some love and appreciation to this tool working reliably and flawlessly through the shooting season 365 days a year.

txgunguy
06-10-2012, 15:29
Such FTE issue happened several times w. my own hot loads (1360fps/180gr) and when chamber was already quite dirty. But that spent case didn't stuck in chamber, it was easy to pull it out with knife blade few seconds later.
Therefore my conclusion was: slide moved back too quick, it traveled back when gas pressure was still pushing brass to the chamber walls and extractor jumped over the edge of brass. There was some more friction too because chamber walls were dirty.
Happened only in aftermarket IGB barrel w. full chamber support and less chamber space compared to oem barrel.
Now this IGB barrel has at least 3000 round through and it does not happen again. No, I didn't polish the chamber but a lot of cleaning has similar effect IMO.
I carry G20 in woods w. IGB barrel cause I don't dare to shoot my hottest loads in oem barrel. But every time before going to bushes I clean shiny the barrel/chamber and lubricate my gun as well just to be 200% sure it works flawlessly if my life depends on it.
On the other side I shoot all factory G17 at IPSC/Stock Division matches and clean it only twice a year. Not because I have to, it's just to show some love and appreciation to this tool working reliably and flawlessly through the shooting season 365 days a year.

Interesting. My chamber was not dirty at all. This case wasn't stuck to the chamber walls at all. The more I evaluate this FTE it really makes no sense.

To recap for anyone just joining in here goes.

I had 5 rounds in the magazine, chambered a round and proceeded to fire. The round sounded different than the other I had shot. I went to pull the trigger again and got a click. At this point I thought hang fire or bad primer. I kept the gun pointed down range and waited about 30 secounds. I ejected the magazine which had 4 rounds in it. I then slowly opened the slide, and the empty case ejected normally.

Now, I didn't get another round trying to feed behind it, which makes me think the slide didn't fully cycle, BUT it cycled just far enough to reset the trigger.

The brass showed no signs of overpressure on it. It looked like the rest.

There is a brass mark on the FRONT of the extractor. The only way that could have got there, was if the extractor slipped off and slammed back on the case in the chamber. The extractor was on the rim of the case like normal. The gun is brand new and I never load a round in the chamber and let the slide slam on it.

I am thankful for all the help so far guys. You have eased my anxiety while waiting to shoot it again lol

txgunguy
06-14-2012, 13:48
Ok guys I took out out again today.

Shot 80 rounds of 180gr tmj without issue.

Shot 30 165gr gold dots with no issue.

when I switched to the 165gr tmj, I had 3 failure to eject out of 50 rounds. Right now I'm thinking my gun does not like the 165gr bullet. I'm frustrated because I've never had this issue with any of my glocks before. It's starting to get expensive testing this weapon to run reliably.

WeeWilly
06-14-2012, 14:19
Ok guys I took out out again today.

Shot 80 rounds of 180gr tmj without issue.

Shot 30 165gr gold dots with no issue.

when I switched to the 165gr tmj, I had 3 failure to eject out of 50 rounds. Right now I'm thinking my gun does not like the 165gr bullet. I'm frustrated because I've never had this issue with any of my glocks before. It's starting to get expensive testing this weapon to run reliably.

Very strange.

Did the 165's exhibit any other difference, particularly light or harsh recoil, etc.?

dm1906
06-14-2012, 14:50
Ok guys I took out out again today.

Shot 80 rounds of 180gr tmj without issue.

Shot 30 165gr gold dots with no issue.

when I switched to the 165gr tmj, I had 3 failure to eject out of 50 rounds. Right now I'm thinking my gun does not like the 165gr bullet. I'm frustrated because I've never had this issue with any of my glocks before. It's starting to get expensive testing this weapon to run reliably.

What brand and advertised claim for these 165's? Try another brand, or different recipe if these are handloads. Many firearms have a dislike for specific rounds. Those who say "not mine, it shoots everything", haven't shot them all.

txgunguy
06-14-2012, 15:55
What brand and advertised claim for these 165's? Try another brand, or different recipe if these are handloads. Many firearms have a dislike for specific rounds. Those who say "not mine, it shoots everything", haven't shot them all.

Underwood Ammo. I don't reload so they are my only option right now for full power 10mm ammo. They are advertising 1400fps and I believe it. It functions fine on the Federal 180gr FMJ but it's loaded to almost the exact same velocity as 40. I'm not going to pay a premium for essentially 40 ammo.

I'll post some picture of the FTEjects. They only happened with the 165gr ammunition, which sucks because I wanted to use 165gr for HD. With an FTE such as these, aren't they usually induced by the slide moving too fast, not allowing the spent casing to eject? Everything on the gun is still stock right now. I haven't tinkered with the recoil spring.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj308/jerodd/IMG_20120614_134338.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj308/jerodd/IMG_20120614_134345.jpg

tyr0981
06-14-2012, 17:47
that's very strange.... it could be a slide issue, but i REALLY REALLY doubt it..... i'd suspect the barrel placement before the spring being the issue..... i assume you've cleaned it several times and re-assembled many times also? make sure the round is fully seating with every shot. if it all still looks ok, i'd get ahold of a Glock dealer in your area and take it to them for warranty investigation.

txgunguy
06-14-2012, 17:56
that's very strange.... it could be a slide issue, but i REALLY REALLY doubt it..... i'd suspect the barrel placement before the spring being the issue..... i assume you've cleaned it several times and re-assembled many times also? make sure the round is fully seating with every shot. if it all still looks ok, i'd get ahold of a Glock dealer in your area and take it to them for warranty investigation.

What do you mean barrel placement? I have cleaned it 3 times now very thoroughly. I'm pretty anal about my guns being clean.

tyr0981
06-14-2012, 18:02
the barrel could be "off" by a little, left, right, up or down, and affect the way the ejector grabs the rim of the shell, but it's only with 165grain shells so that's proly not it.... if i was in your shoes and 180's worked well i'd stick with those, or get ahold of Glock they probably be allot more useful then all of us guessing at it.....

txgunguy
06-14-2012, 18:07
the barrel could be "off" by a little, left, right, up or down, and affect the way the ejector grabs the rim of the shell, but it's only with 165grain shells so that's proly not it.... if i was in your shoes and 180's worked well i'd stick with those, or get ahold of Glock they probably be allot more useful then all of us guessing at it.....

I'm leaning towards that because I don't want to be limited to a certain bullet weight. I really can't afford to keep running 100 rounds of 10mm at a time through it to see if the issue will go away. I'm just really frustrated right now.

IronRonin
06-14-2012, 21:31
HEY OP!! "The 10mm guys" DON'T all use fancy schmancy steel guide rods and magic different weighted springs. I shoot a FULL RANGE of 10mm ammo on the STOCK rsa, and so do many of us. There is NO REASON to buy an aftermarket recoil spring, the stock one is sufficient for 100% reliability on a wide range of ammo. The malfunctions you described do not in any way sound like they are recoil spring related, I agree with EK.

Opie 1 Kenopie
06-14-2012, 22:00
HEY OP!! "The 10mm guys" DON'T all use fancy schmancy steel guide rods and magic different weighted springs. I shoot a FULL RANGE of 10mm ammo on the STOCK rsa, and so do many of us. There is NO REASON to buy an aftermarket recoil spring, the stock one is sufficient for 100% reliability on a wide range of ammo. The malfunctions you described do not in any way sound like they are recoil spring related, I agree with EK.

And I agree with Ronin. Clearly not a spring issue. Sounds like you got weak ammo in a brand new gun.

Sounds like you're good to go with heavier rounds until you break that puppy in. Eventually it will digest 165s too. Relax, your new 20 is perfectly normal. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a bunch of aftermarket parts are the answer. More often than not, aftermarket crap reduces reliability. Swap out your sights for good steel versions, then leave it alone.

txgunguy
06-15-2012, 05:47
And I agree with Ronin. Clearly not a spring issue. Sounds like you got weak ammo in a brand new gun.

Sounds like you're good to go with heavier rounds until you break that puppy in. Eventually it will digest 165s too. Relax, your new 20 is perfectly normal. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a bunch of aftermarket parts are the answer. More often than not, aftermarket crap reduces reliability. Swap out your sights for good steel versions, then leave it alone.

I really don't think Underwood Ammo is weak by any stretch of the imagination.

tyr0981
06-25-2012, 09:59
just curious if you've figured things out, or had a resolution?

Opie 1 Kenopie
06-25-2012, 22:57
I really don't think Underwood Ammo is weak by any stretch of the imagination.

Not Underwood Ammo as a whole, I meant it sounds like you got a weak round. An underpowered, low charged round that wouldn't run your gun. I'm betting that it's not going to happen a lot with their stuff.

Marshall_tx
07-30-2012, 13:28
I know this thread's kind of old, but I was checking to see if you fixed your issue? I have that exact same issue that your experiencing with the exact ammo. My Glock is 100% factory stock purchased November of last year and for some reason it shoots remington UMC flawlessly but as soon as I bring out the Underwood 165/180 TMJ I get the exact problem you were describing. It's really unfortunate since all of my other Glocks function 100%. Side Note: I don't limp wrist because I usually shoot hot .44mag without problems, I keep my Glock clean with a thin layer of oil and all my mags are factory new.