Socialist or Fascist? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ruble Noon
06-12-2012, 05:56
http://spectator.org/archives/2012/06/12/socialist-or-fascist

JFrame
06-12-2012, 06:06
Yet another excellent article, Ruble -- thanks for posting! :thumbsup:


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Ruble Noon
06-12-2012, 06:09
Yet another excellent article, Ruble -- thanks for posting! :thumbsup:


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They're all good when they come from Mr. Sowell. :wavey:

JFrame
06-12-2012, 06:14
They're all good when they come from Mr. Sowell. :wavey:


You bet'cha! :cool:


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RHVEtte
06-12-2012, 07:24
They're all good when they come from Mr. Sowell. :wavey:

Sowell 2012.:supergrin: Or at least Secretary of the Treasury.

OlliesRevenge
06-12-2012, 08:10
Great piece!

Regarding fascism as being on the far right of the political spectrum is a common misconception -- for those on the left. It's nice to see it get addressed.

brickboy240
06-12-2012, 14:02
After reading Jonah Goldberg's book, "Liberal Fascism" I have to agree with Dr. Sowell's writings.

Anyone interested in this subject would enjoy Goldberg's book. He uses historical data and facts to back up the theory that today's leftists are basically fascists.

- brickboy240

Bren
06-12-2012, 14:23
Not sure why it is presented as if socialism and fascism are alternatives, rather than fascism being the government system that supports the socialist economic system - the short answer is, if you are going to take the proceeds of citizens labor, and distribute it to other citizens who contribute less, but still keep the producing citizens producing, you are going to need strict government control from an authroitarian government, to enforce the socialist economy.

Hence, one of the most famous socialist governments in history, the National Socialist German Workers' Party:
http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/willow/national-socialist-german-workers-party0.gif
The author seems to realize that, but presented it strangely. Obviously, the political right and the political left are on a circular scale, where the far ends get closer together, rather than farther apart after a point. Remember the various nazis at "Occupy" camps?

OlliesRevenge
06-12-2012, 15:16
Obviously, the political right and the political left are on a circular scale, where the far ends get closer together, rather than farther apart after a point.

Great point, very well put.

Left... right... they're both government. Too much government leads to totalitarianism.

You just motivated me to crack open 'The Road To Serfdom' yet again. I'm pretty sure Hayek addresses this, but I forget how he put it...

certifiedfunds
06-12-2012, 16:48
Far right and far left meet at anarchy, no?

I've always rejected the circle and preferred a straight line. I struggle with the notion that ultimate liberty for man is kissing cousins with anything resembling leftist politics.

Cavalry Doc
06-12-2012, 17:17
Far right and far left meet at anarchy, no?

I've always rejected the circle and preferred a straight line. I struggle with the notion that ultimate liberty for man is kissing cousins with anything resembling leftist politics.
http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.debate.org/photos/albums/1/2/1221/32577-1221-nwrr5-a.jpg&sa=X&ei=_s3XT_y5MIjU2AWIoIDsCw&ved=0CAkQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNGYQWdGvQTdM_Ws-JMT6cvyLLYjJg


I'm not always a fan of X/Y axis charts, there always seems to be a Z axis missing, but this seems to do a pretty good job of pointing out the relationship.

GRIMLET
06-12-2012, 17:28
Not sure why it is presented as if socialism and fascism are alternatives, rather than fascism being the government system that supports the socialist economic system - the short answer is, if you are going to take the proceeds of citizens labor, and distribute it to other citizens who contribute less, but still keep the producing citizens producing, you are going to need strict government control from an authroitarian government, to enforce the socialist economy.

Hence, one of the most famous socialist governments in history, the National Socialist German Workers' Party:
http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/willow/national-socialist-german-workers-party0.gif
The author seems to realize that, but presented it strangely. Obviously, the political right and the political left are on a circular scale, where the far ends get closer together, rather than farther apart after a point. Remember the various nazis at "Occupy" camps?

I kind of thought the same thing. In many ways it seems we are headed down that road, just much slower.

OlliesRevenge
06-12-2012, 17:54
Far right and far left meet at anarchy, no?

I've always rejected the circle and preferred a straight line. I struggle with the notion that ultimate liberty for man is kissing cousins with anything resembling leftist politics.

I think if you use the straight line analogy you'd have anarchy at one end and totalitarianism at the other.

Monarchy -- Oligarchy -- Democracy -- Republic -- Anarchy

Some view anarchy as complete freedom, yet others might argue that freedom can't exist without some form of government to protect the rights of the individual.

Your "kissing cousins" point is pretty strong. Now that Im thinking carefully about it, I think the strong point of the circle analogy might be that anarchy usually leads to some form of dictatorship to fill the void -- and totalitarianism can lead to anarchy when the oppressive gov't is overthrown.

It would be nice if we could tread water right at the 'Republic' point on the continuum, but unfortunately there is usually momentum in one direction or another.