Feeding issues with 200gr BT HC. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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orangeride
06-12-2012, 20:09
Some months ago I worked up a load in my stock 20sf and barrel. What I ended up with is a charge of Longshot, reg fed primers, new stairline brass and 200gr BT seated at 1.26-1.263". When working up the loads I shot 5 shot strings into the crono and ended up with a safe max load of 1230 fps. While shooting I never had any feeding issues. Now I few months later I've discovered when I load past 7 or 8 the wide meplet of the bullet start to drag on the inside of the mag, making it impossible to load more than 10 or so. So I shortend up to 1.25" and started getting FTFeed with the bullet hanging up on the top of the chamber mouth. I went to 1.24". Same problem. I ran the rest through a lee BB. Some of the rounds seemed like there might have been a slight buldge at the back of the bullet. I test fired to and after 30 rounds I thought I had it fixed, but then it did the same thing. The gun is a very good preformer. It only ever given me problems with marginal reloads. I had a fresh 2-4 hundred round stock RSA in the gun. I mostly shoot 40sw through a conversion. But I've shot lots of 180's at 1250fps and a couple thou 135nosler at 1500 and the gun runs fine. Any ideas guys? Is there a pretty small OAL where these bullets work good? Could I have to much crimp on the cases causing them to come up early in the front? Also I tried with three different mags with the same results. Thanks. Aaron

ctious
06-12-2012, 20:30
It's the meplat. It's too wide for the mags. Common problem that we came across while doing a group DIY on custom molds on another forum.

orangeride
06-12-2012, 20:39
It's the meplat. It's too wide for the mags. Common problem that we came across while doing a group DIY on custom molds on another forum.


I can see that the large meplet is causing problems. But it seems like a lot of the guys on this board are using them successfully. It seems like I might be forced to get some factory ammo. Does the buffalo bore 220gr have a good rep for reliable feeding? I'd sure like to get my hand loads running.

ctious
06-12-2012, 22:32
I can see that the large meplet is causing problems. But it seems like a lot of the guys on this board are using them successfully. It seems like I might be forced to get some factory ammo. Does the buffalo bore 220gr have a good rep for reliable feeding? I'd sure like to get my hand loads running.

Well Its fine with around 8 loads. As for buffalo bore 220s i dont know. Have to see what the meplate is. Sounds like .295 works well. The designer of the mold buy we are doing is testing now to see exactly where the line is with glocks to load a full mag. That way we can get the largeat meplat possible. When that is known i will let u knwo.

Any Cal.
06-13-2012, 01:04
The Buffalo Bore 220 is a Truncated Cone, which seems to feed OK in other bullet weights, though I have no experience with that one specifically. That particular bullet is available from Rimrock Bullet Co.. It has a rather small meplat, and is rather long, though with Longshot the length shouldn't hurt you. I have had no issues with the 200g Truncated Cone from Missouri Bullet Co.

I have not used the BT 200, the specs say it has a .310 meplat. I don't have any issues with the Double Tap 230s, which look to have a .300+ meplat, loaded to 1.255-1.260. Also no problems with other bullets that run .280-.294 on the meplat.

It does look like it comes very close to a 3 point jam using the Double Taps, you might see if a different magazine helps. Maybe try using a case deburring tool to break the outside edge of the meplat slightly? Try working the slide slowly and make sure the cartridge comes up under the extractor properly. It does seem surprising that you are having these troubles in the stock barrel, its dimensions are pretty generous...

The bulge in the back is likely the gas check, at times it springs back after the bullet is sized, leaving it a bit oversize.

Meathead9
06-13-2012, 12:34
I found a box of DT 200gr WFNGC ammo in the safe, so I checked it again just to make sure. The OAL is between 1.242-1.245", and the meplat is .32" as advertised. I just loaded 15rds into a few of my mags & hand cycled them through my guns with no issues. I've been trying to figure it out for a while now, but maybe you guys just found out why MCNETT loads them so short. I'll load up some of my own @ 1.25 & 1.26 as soon as I get a chance & report back. In the past, I've only loaded 5rds at a time because it was all just for chrono testing, so this may end up raining on my parade.

nickE10mm
06-13-2012, 13:00
I found a box of DT 200gr WFNGC ammo in the safe, so I checked it again just to make sure. The OAL is between 1.242-1.245", and the meplat is .32" as advertised. I just loaded 15rds into a few of my mags & hand cycled them through my guns with no issues. I've been trying to figure it out for a while now, but maybe you guys just found out why MCNETT loads them so short. I'll load up some of my own @ 1.25 & 1.26 as soon as I get a chance & report back. In the past, I've only loaded 5rds at a time because it was all just for chrono testing, so this may end up raining on my parade.

I've loaded both the DT FACTORY 200 and 230gr WFNGC, the DT WFNGC components in my own handloads and also the Beartooth 200gr BTB's .... ALL of these in my Fusion 6" 1911, Glock 20, Glock 20 w/Barsto and G29.

Only problems I EVER had with ANY of the bullets was in my Fusion 6" as I couldn't load any more than about 2 or 3 of my 1.26" handloads into the mags. The bullets FED fine, otherwise. The 1.26" loads DID function fine in my G20 and G29 with stock and aftermarket barrels. Seems like the Glock mags are a bit more forgiving than my Mecgar 1911 mags as far as OAL is concerned.

Also, I concur. The BTB's have a .31" meplat and the DT WFNGC have a .32" meplat.

FWIW, I recommend loading either of these hardcast loads to 1.24-1.25" unless you have a direct need to load them at 1.26".

Meathead9
06-13-2012, 14:41
I just made 15 dummy rounds with DT 200gr WFNGC's, both at 1.260" & 1.250 OAL. I could only get 10-11rds into my mags @ 1.260", but all 15rds loaded in just fine @ 1.250". All rounds were crimped to .420 using a standard Lee Taper Crimp Die. I'll load up some of these bullets with Longshot @ 1.250" for my next range trip. Hopefully they feed in my guns as well as they loaded into the mags.


.

Yondering
06-13-2012, 20:28
It sounds like there may be considerable variation in Glock magazines, with some handling the wide meplats better than others. In my G20, the magazine is the limiting factor on meplat size and OAL.

I have found that with a .290" or smaller meplat I can load to a longer OAL than anything with a wider meplat.

The feed issues described in the original post are likely due to the rounds binding in the mag, and causing insufficient pressure against the top round in the mag. I've had this occur to the point where the top round would fall out of the magazine if it was tipped forward.

orangeride, here are two other threads where this is/was being discussed.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1426332

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=154736&page=3

orangeride
06-13-2012, 22:18
Ok guys, update on my gun. The good news is that it went through 70rnds today without a hitch, whereas before I was getting a ftfeed at least once every mag. First of my follower in my mag seemed to have a little crud build up, so I buffed it clean. Next I made sure every round was tapped to the back of the mag. Lastly, and I think was causing my problems was the ammo I had loaded before I had sealed the primer pockets and case mouth with primer sealer. I could see on some of the rounds I had gotten sloppy and gotten some dried hard sealer back on the case, maybe .25" back from the case mouth. The 70 I shot today was in new stairline brass, fed LP primers, 9.6gr Longshot (hand weighed) and a 1.243 OAL. They fit good in the mag and feed good. I'm starting to think with these tuff to feed bullets any little thing can throw things off. By the way, is primer sealer really necessary to water proof your ammo?

Yondering
06-13-2012, 23:26
By the way, is primer sealer really necessary to water proof your ammo?

I've never used it, but I don't normally go swimming with my ammo. I did have some that went through the wash once though; it worked fine.

_The_Shadow
06-14-2012, 12:15
I will share some info about some of my ammo which I loaded, two seperate incidents...(No Sealer was used in any of these)
1st... was a good friend and co-worker, loaded a box of 357Mag for him. He left them in his boat which filled up with rain water (Louisiana is known for some rain storms) anyway they were sumereged for two weeks plus. He brought them to me to salvage the bullets and brass, I told him to just shoot them...his respsonse was man they got soaked in my boat. So I took them and loaded some in my gun and shot them, he said he would have never have believed they would shoot, Every last one shot fine.

2nd...My brother-in-law had loaded 500 9mm on my press prior to Hurricane Katrina Aug. 2005, his house was washed of the foundation and flooded with salt water and mud from the tidal surge (direct path of the eye of this monster storm) anyway after we were able to get back to what was left of his house, and recovered his ammo it was all nasty soaking in boxes filled by the flood waters, we washed it with water and wiped them dry. he has been shooting some of it off an on...at a recent shooting secession Feb. 2012 he shot the last of about 150 rounds. There was one cartridge that failed to fire (primer was struck a few times) I took it apart, popped out the old primer put in a new primer, reloaded the old powder and bullet, loaded it in the gun and pulled the trigger...Pow! One round dead in 500 loaded and soaked cartridges ain't bad.

nickE10mm
06-14-2012, 12:49
Ok guys, update on my gun. The good news is that it went through 70rnds today without a hitch, whereas before I was getting a ftfeed at least once every mag. First of my follower in my mag seemed to have a little crud build up, so I buffed it clean. Next I made sure every round was tapped to the back of the mag. Lastly, and I think was causing my problems was the ammo I had loaded before I had sealed the primer pockets and case mouth with primer sealer. I could see on some of the rounds I had gotten sloppy and gotten some dried hard sealer back on the case, maybe .25" back from the case mouth. The 70 I shot today was in new stairline brass, fed LP primers, 9.6gr Longshot (hand weighed) and a 1.243 OAL. They fit good in the mag and feed good. I'm starting to think with these tuff to feed bullets any little thing can throw things off. By the way, is primer sealer really necessary to water proof your ammo?

9.6gr LS under a 200gr WFNGC? Wow... hot load. I'd imagine you'd get close to 1340-1350fps out of a 6" barrel and probably over 1250 out of a stock G20 barrel. I might not even fire that hot of a load from a stock G20.

As for primers, I've never used primer sealant and I've soaked my ammo and had it later shot fine. YMMV

orangeride
06-14-2012, 21:11
I'm getting 1230fps avg. it's a warm load but no smiles. The brass looks about what the 135's at 1500 look like. I actually think the lose chamber gives a little extra room for expansion helping to drop pressure, but it is hard on brass. I don't shoot very many of the hot stuff. This is the load I carry when I'm in Idaho or AK fishing. I've shot thousands through this gun working up various plinking loads and such, and the gun has never given me the vel. The book said it would at that powder charge. I think the tighter chamber guns might give a little more vel.

Taterhead
06-14-2012, 23:24
There must be some variations in mags & dimensions. I seat my DT component WFNGC hardcasts to 1.26" since I need room for 13.8 grains of A9 powder. 15 rounds fit in my mags and cycle without problems. I have not had any failures. Stock G20 barrel.

nickE10mm
06-15-2012, 06:26
I'm getting 1230fps avg. it's a warm load but no smiles. The brass looks about what the 135's at 1500 look like. I actually think the lose chamber gives a little extra room for expansion helping to drop pressure, but it is hard on brass. I don't shoot very many of the hot stuff. This is the load I carry when I'm in Idaho or AK fishing. I've shot thousands through this gun working up various plinking loads and such, and the gun has never given me the vel. The book said it would at that powder charge. I think the tighter chamber guns might give a little more vel.

Good deal... just keep using new brass with that load. :)

I sure like Longshot.... its been really good for me, too....