What's Up With My Trigger? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Taterhead
06-12-2012, 21:40
OK guys, I'm a bit perplexed and looking for help regarding the trigger on my Gen 3 G20. I admittedly have never given serious thought about Glock trigger mechanics, so not sure where to start looking.

Here is what is going on lately: when the gun is cold and clean, the trigger is actually pretty nice for a Glock. That is the normal state. Lately, however, I have noticed that as the gun heats up and gets dirtier the trigger pull gets harder and harder. It is like it doesn't want to break. It gets to the point where I can barely make the trigger break. I thought my old Ruger P89 double action trigger pull was tough.

I haven't swapped any trigger parts except for the trigger housing about 1500 rounds ago (the ejector was a little bent). The problem showed up subsequent to that. I suspect that might be a coincidence because the problems have only shown up in the last 6-700 rounds I would guess.

I have detail cleaned it a couple of times since the problem started. That works, until the gun warms and/or gets dirty (maybe 30 rounds in a fairly short period of time). The trigger pull gets harder and harder and harder. Let it cool a bit, and it gets better. After 200 rounds, forget it. Even when cool it is still not right if it is dirty.

I have thought about just replacing everything (I am not interested in looking at aftermarket parts at this point).

My gun is well past its "break-in" period. Probably low 5 figures in total round count.

When I field and detail stripped it, nothing looks out of place, worn, bent, broken, etc.
Any thoughts? This is perplexing. I have gone 5-800 rounds between cleanings in the past without trouble.

Thanks guys.

_The_Shadow
06-12-2012, 22:00
Could it be plunger related? It has to move fairly easily to drop down to allow the striker to strike the round.

I wonder if using a cleaner burning powder would make a difference?

Best of luck getting it fixed up!

WeeWilly
06-12-2012, 22:29
Could it be plunger related? It has to move fairly easily to drop down to allow the striker to strike the round..

Definitely a good place to look. Have you detail stripped the slide? If you haven't, I would strip and clean all the channels out completely with extra attention to the well the plunger rides in, maybe use a copper brush in there.

leadslinger13
06-12-2012, 22:59
what about the angle on the connector? did you bend it out (away from the trigger housing) by accident?

nickE10mm
06-13-2012, 08:26
Also, aside from the above things... did the trigger return spring get re-installed backwards (looking from the right, it should look like an S). Check the reinstallation of the striker assembly and firing pin safety and spring, as well.

Take pics and post them if you like....

Taterhead
06-13-2012, 08:44
Thanks for the tips guys. It is definitely happens when the gun gets warm. It now has 200 rounds of gunk and the trigger works fine now while cold.

The slide was completely detail cleaned before yesterday's outing. The various channels, including the plunger well. The plunger is ok. The trigger problem presented itself after about 30 rounds. The gun was nice and warm then. The warmer it got, the worse the trigger became. Let it cool, and things improved.

I will check the connector and the return spring after I get home from the office.

I had associated cleaning the gun with solving the problem. What I did not realize, but now do, is that a clean gun is a cold gun. The trigger is great when cold.

If I could best pinpoint the problem, it is when that cruciform part is supposed to break from that striker part. It is some how binding up - but only when the gun is hot. Otherwise, it cylces normally.

WeeWilly
06-13-2012, 11:00
Thanks for the tips guys. It is definitely happens when the gun gets warm. It now has 200 rounds of gunk and the trigger works fine now while cold.

The slide was completely detail cleaned before yesterday's outing. The various channels, including the plunger well. The plunger is ok. The trigger problem presented itself after about 30 rounds. The gun was nice and warm then. The warmer it got, the worse the trigger became. Let it cool, and things improved.

I will check the connector and the return spring after I get home from the office.

I had associated cleaning the gun with solving the problem. What I did not realize, but now do, is that a clean gun is a cold gun. The trigger is great when cold.

If I could best pinpoint the problem, it is when that cruciform part is supposed to break from that striker part. It is some how binding up - but only when the gun is hot. Otherwise, it cylces normally.

I love a good mystery. What a head scratcher.

Opie 1 Kenopie
06-13-2012, 15:52
Thanks for the tips guys. It is definitely happens when the gun gets warm.... The trigger is great when cold.

I would only carry it November through March then.

Seriously, I'm no help at all. Send her back for a factory diagnostic.

ModGlock17
06-13-2012, 19:56
I would only carry it November through March then.

.....

:rofl:

On the serious side, when I was working on modifying trigger bars, I ran into problem of "heavy" trigger pull that came from the plunger tab on the trigger bar PUSHed too hard UP and into the slide, when it actually should slide back into the striker (wasted trigger force). The sign of that is scratches into the plunger hole on the slide. Check for that when you experience the problem. If so, then somehow the heat caused expansion which changed the optimum operating dynamic of the trigger bar.

Strickly a guess not having seen your gun.

If you're going to diagnose or get help doing it, then take picture when it is dirty and malfunctioned. Scratches on burnt material can tell a pretty good story.

smitty704
06-14-2012, 00:02
If its not the striker safety plunger, I would guess its where the trigger bar rides on the connector. Maybe there is some gunk in there. Although I don't know why it would get worse as it heats up!? I'm very curious as to what this issue is.

Keep us posted.

Any Cal.
06-14-2012, 02:49
: Check for galling on the end of the trigger bar and connector, I have had a similar problem. The best way is to replace them both, if one is galled it can ruin the new part. The galling process is accelerated by lack of lubricant there, it is a critical lube point.

Yondering
06-14-2012, 08:54
Did you polish any trigger parts? If you polished it down through the chrome, the softer steel underneath could be sticking.

Also, is the trigger pull heavy all the way through the stroke, or only right before it breaks?

Taterhead
06-14-2012, 10:15
Did you polish any trigger parts? If you polished it down through the chrome, the softer steel underneath could be sticking.

Also, is the trigger pull heavy all the way through the stroke, or only right before it breaks?

No polishing. However, the parts are all pretty worn. The trigger pull is normal right until the point at which it should break. I think that the cruciform part is getting stuck.

I did not have a chance to investigate further last night due to a friend unexpectedly coming to town.

I did dry fire again and the trigger is perfect. But again, the gun is cold.

Since my gun is well used, I am going to order new parts and start swapping them one at a time to see if I can eliminate the problem.

This is so weird.

Taterhead
06-14-2012, 10:25
: Check for galling on the end of the trigger bar and connector, I have had a similar problem. The best way is to replace them both, if one is galled it can ruin the new part. The galling process is accelerated by lack of lubricant there, it is a critical lube point.

I will check that out. It is not a part that I lube, but probably should it sounds like.

Thanks

GRT45
06-14-2012, 11:12
I will check that out. It is not a part that I lube, but probably should it sounds like.

Thanks

The Glock Armorer's Manual calls it the most important place to lubricate your pistol. Below is the excerpt from the manual:

"Most important is one drop of oil placed just under the connector hook (located just above the right rear receiver rail). Any lubricant placed here will move down where the connector and trigger bar meet. If this area is not properly lubricated, the result may be a "hard" trigger pull that can lead to connector and/or trigger bar damage."

Pictures below are courtesy of GT member Butch.



Here's some pics of where the most important drop goes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/239be042.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Glock%20pics/DSC07117.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Glock%20pics/MOSTIMPORTANTDROP-.jpg

nickE10mm
06-14-2012, 11:44
I will check that out. It is not a part that I lube, but probably should it sounds like.

Thanks

DEFINITELY lube this area.... While I don't think that could (possibly <gasp>) be why your pistol seems to be seizing on trigger pull (or metal expanding?) .... I think it will help if you'd start lubing there.

Next thing I'd like to say is.... Does your cruciform bar look all damaged and galled like GRT45's pics below? If so, thats no bueno....

ModGlock17
06-14-2012, 11:45
This is intriguing.

To lube or not to lube, shouldn't be temperature dependent...

It's the temperature dependency that is intriguing.

Try dry fire after heating the trigger bar with a hair dryer ?

Any Cal.
06-14-2012, 12:56
For me the galling was pretty inconsistent. It would work fine, then get harder and harder. I had lightened the trigger quite a bit, and it went from that to feeling like something was jammed inside. I would take it apart and everything looked fine, so I would put it together and start the cycle again. You have to look hard for it, the connector and bar only contact on one edge, and it is in the corner of the connector. It would make things hard enough that the trigger and trigger bar would flex under trying to overcome the friction.

Taterhead
06-14-2012, 13:07
Wow. Thank you all for jumping in with some great leads. I have a lot to look at. I will probably not have a chance until Friday since my family is returning from a trip. I will spend some time with the kids tonight.

Again, I really appreciate the help. GRT45, the photos are very helpful. What did I learn? I need to lube. I probably wore out those parts running them dry for a few years.

leadslinger13
06-14-2012, 19:07
a few years dry. testament to glocks! great....mystery.... lets know what you find

JAS104
06-14-2012, 19:17
This is as mysterious and that whole what came first chicken or egg lol.


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Taterhead
07-01-2012, 23:05
The Glock Armorer's Manual calls it the most important place to lubricate your pistol. Below is the excerpt from the manual:
"Most important is one drop of oil placed just under the connector hook (located just above the right rear receiver rail). Any lubricant placed here will move down where the connector and trigger bar meet. If this area is not properly lubricated, the result may be a "hard" trigger pull that can lead to connector and/or trigger bar damage."
Pictures below are courtesy of GT member Butch.

Brilliant!!!!

I am flabergasted, but this was the problem. I put that one important drop of oil as described above. Voila!

I went to the range with a dirty gun and ran more than 100 rounds through it. I did a couple of back-to-back mag dumps to get it nice and hot. Trigger stayed compliant and unchanged. I continued to shoot a few mags to see if I could duplicate my prior problems.

I was able to ring a steel gong at 220 yards with a hot gun. Trigger was fine.

The moral of the story, even Glocks need a tiny bit of TLC.

Lesson learned. I don't know how that escaped me for so long.

Thank you for all of the feedback guys.

WeeWilly
07-01-2012, 23:13
Great stuff indeed. Thanks.

blastfact
07-02-2012, 21:37
Glad to hear everything worked out Tater.

Opie 1 Kenopie
07-02-2012, 21:47
We, as guys, tend NOT to read the dang instructions. On anything.

Along with the slide rails, barrel hood and bushing area, that one most important part is all I ever lube on my Glocks. But they get a drop there every time they get cleaned.

robert91922
07-03-2012, 00:08
Now I know why I had some trigger problems on the last stage at IPSC match 2 weeks ago. It was very hot day (35 C = 95 F), I was the last shooter on previous stage and the first on next. But I thought something's getting wrong (cramp?) w. the most important body part - trigger finger :rofl:

Thanks god it was only dry, dirty and hot Glock 17. Now I decided to clean it more often and lubricate that gun part every time I go to the range :embarassed:

nickE10mm
07-03-2012, 08:19
The funny thing about all this is ... I've ALWAYS lubed my Glocks in this place.... so I've never known that this malf could or would even HAPPEN. Good to know.

blastfact
07-03-2012, 18:09
The funny thing about all this is ... I've ALWAYS lubed my Glocks in this place.... so I've never known that this malf could or would even HAPPEN. Good to know.

Nick most folks seem to get enough in that area from oiling the slide guide right there by it. :)

With that said. I'm one of the over lubers/oilers. :rofl:

Taterhead
07-03-2012, 20:16
We, as guys, tend NOT to read the dang instructions. On anything.

.

Got that right. With the exception of loading manuals that I have read through intently.

Taterhead
08-10-2012, 23:39
Update.

The lack of lubricant was the problem. About 1000 rounds have been through it since I last posted. I have field stripped and cleaned between sessions; and put the crucial drop of oil between sessions. The trigger has been totally normal. I shot 270 rounds today in HOT conditions. 50 rounds of hot 200 gr XTPs, warm 180s, and some 150 JHPs. I did multiple mag dumps and so forth. Smoking hot gun and the trigger pull and break did not change.

I got the gun hot enought that I couldn't holster it. Did some mag dumps. No problems.

Amazing. One little tiny drop of oil. I just wonder why it never caused problems until recently. Probably a bit of wear and tear has left it more susceptible.