Thanks Obamacare: 83% of Doctors Surveyed Say They May Quit [Archive] - Glock Talk

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snerd
06-17-2012, 09:05
Read it and weep...............

http://www.dpmafoundation.org/physician-attitudes-on-medicine.html

Cavalry Doc
06-17-2012, 09:16
Thinking of getting a masters in Hospital Administration. Obamacare will cause an explosion in those jobs. It's probably not going to be pleasant to be on the "Managed" end. There are a lot of physicians I know, some of them third generation physicians, that are advising their kids to go into other fields.

azatrox
06-17-2012, 09:25
My wife is an RN. MANY of the physicians she works with are seriously contemplating hanging it up.

callihan_44
06-17-2012, 09:39
so many things hinge on this disaster being overturned, the announcement cant come soon enough

aircarver
06-17-2012, 09:40
One more 'unintended consequence' of hopium and unicorns .... :upeyes:

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certifiedfunds
06-17-2012, 09:47
Thinking of getting a masters in Hospital Administration. Obamacare will cause an explosion in those jobs. It's probably not going to be pleasant to be on the "Managed" end. There are a lot of physicians I know, some of them third generation physicians, that are advising their kids to go into other fields.

Yup. Imagine that. Government regulation causing an explosion in overhead.

Sure. It'll get cheaper that way. :upeyes:

JFrame
06-17-2012, 09:55
I guess the remaining 17 percent are the dedicated bureaucratic socialists...


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certifiedfunds
06-17-2012, 10:00
I guess the remaining 17 percent are the dedicated bureaucratic socialists...


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There is a certain % of physicians who are as you describe, no doubt.

Cavalry Doc
06-17-2012, 10:09
Yup. Imagine that. Government regulation causing an explosion in overhead.

Sure. It'll get cheaper that way. :upeyes:


Process Improvement
System Redesign
Quality Management

Those are three SEPARATE office staffs in the facility I work in. Funny thing is, I'm not seeing any processes improved, systems redesigned or quality management. From my perspective, it seems like they develop a plan, then hold onto it for dear life until FORCED to implement it. I think they think that if they implement it, they will lose their plan, and have to come up with another. We have one clinic so cramped for space, that it's not uncommon to see Doctors searching for a room to see patients in. I've actually had to see patients in the admin office behind the clerk's desk because there was simply no where else to see them. So we came up with a plan, move a physical exam clinic off the same floor to pre-fab buildings, and expand the clinic into that space. That was the plan FOUR YEARS ago. The physical exam clinic moved off the floor 3 months ago, and my clinic has not been able to occupy the empty space yet, because they don't have enough desks and computers.......

I've never seen an organization drive at 90 miles an hour while looking in the rear view mirror before. ......

JFrame
06-17-2012, 10:22
Process Improvement
System Redesign
Quality Management

Those are three SEPARATE office staffs in the facility I work in.

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Doc -- I sincerely believe that perpetuation of the bureaucracy is the raison d'etre for the majority of upper-level managers currently occupying their federal offices. It's all about empire-building, and justifying the personnel for a bigger budget which, in turn, justifies more personnel. It's the classic vicious cycle.

I know of one such federal manager who toured the countryside enlisting support from potential customers for a software system that would cure all their processing ills. The problem is, he spoke in such a way as to convince people that the system actually existed. It only existed as a cloudy notion in his political mind, and a couple of PowerPoint slideshows. And it didn't matter to him if that system would ever exist. He built an entire office, staffed with some pretty high-level personnel, around this mythical system.

Now -- just extrapolate this type of behavior across the entire spectrum of the government...


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Cavalry Doc
06-17-2012, 10:31
Doc -- I sincerely believe that perpetuation of the bureaucracy is the raison d'etre for the majority of upper-level managers currently occupying their federal offices. It's all about empire-building, and justifying the personnel for a bigger budget which, in turn, justifies more personnel. It's the classic vicious cycle.

I know of one such federal manager who toured the countryside enlisting support from potential customers for a software system that would cure all their processing ills. The problem is, he spoke in such a way as to convince people that the system actually existed. It only existed as a cloudy notion in his political mind, and a couple of PowerPoint slideshows. And it didn't matter to him if that system would ever exist. He built an entire office, staffed with some pretty high-level personnel, around this mythical system.

Now -- just extrapolate this type of behavior across the entire spectrum of the government...


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If only I had the scalpel, I know where to cut the budget.

Ruble Noon
06-18-2012, 18:46
Doctors are already quitting or going into a concierge type of service.

RHVEtte
06-18-2012, 19:36
Doctors are already quitting or going into a concierge type of service.

Wait, Royal Pains is a real thing?

Ruble Noon
06-18-2012, 19:44
Wait, Royal Pains is a real thing?

I don't know what Royal Pains is but here is a wiki page about concierge medicine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concierge_medicine

certifiedfunds
06-18-2012, 23:16
Concierge medicine is a stellar example of how inexpensively and efficiently day to day healthcare can be administered in the absence of Medicare and medical financing (traditional insurance).

RHVEtte
06-19-2012, 01:42
I don't know what Royal Pains is but here is a wiki page about concierge medicine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concierge_medicine

Yep, that's pretty much it. Of course, being television, they made sure it takes place in the Hamptons where everyone is loaded, implying this kind of care is only for the rich and famous. You regular schmucks get to wait in line at the new BMF (Bureau of Medical Frustration.)

Guss
06-19-2012, 01:50
Thinking of getting a masters in Hospital Administration. Obamacare will cause an explosion in those jobs. It's probably not going to be pleasant to be on the "Managed" end. There are a lot of physicians I know, some of them third generation physicians, that are advising their kids to go into other fields.
The system is already being "managed" by insurance companies. It's a major headache for doctors' offices to contend with the multiple entities. Consolidating into a single-payer system would bring about a reduction of overhead.

Guss
06-19-2012, 01:51
Concierge medicine is a stellar example of how inexpensively and efficiently day to day healthcare can be administered in the absence of Medicare and medical financing (traditional insurance).
Too bad so many people can't afford it.

Guss
06-19-2012, 01:53
Read it and weep...............

http://www.dpmafoundation.org/physician-attitudes-on-medicine.html
So after they quit, where will they go to make a comparable income?

Where I live, so many people are on Medicare that doctors are already well-adjusted.

Cavalry Doc
06-19-2012, 05:29
The system is already being "managed" by insurance companies. It's a major headache for doctors' offices to contend with the multiple entities. Consolidating into a single-payer system would bring about a reduction of overhead.

Oh, I know exactly what a single payer government run system looks like. Outside of the military, it's an open invitation to fraud.

I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end, about managers manipulating reports to get larger bonuses, and even the OIG doesn't care. Patient consults left without results, well over a thousand of them, from multiple medical specialties that are over 2 years old. Noting urgent, just things like radiation oncology, breast biopsies and cardiac caths.

Trust me, you don't want to go there.

Cavalry Doc
06-19-2012, 05:31
So after they quit, where will they go to make a comparable income?

Where I live, so many people are on Medicare that doctors are already well-adjusted.


Oh, there are lots of options.

https://www.google.com/search?q=who+makes+more+than+a+doctor&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Guss
06-19-2012, 05:50
Oh, I know exactly what a single payer government run system looks like. Outside of the military, it's an open invitation to fraud.

I could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end, about managers manipulating reports to get larger bonuses, and even the OIG doesn't care. Patient consults left without results, well over a thousand of them, from multiple medical specialties that are over 2 years old. Noting urgent, just things like radiation oncology, breast biopsies and cardiac caths.

Trust me, you don't want to go there.
So how's it different?

eracer
06-19-2012, 06:00
The classic pyramidal salary model can't work in a Deming environment. Top-down process improvement driven through statistical analysis works only when upper management cedes control to the workers. It is truly a communal philosophy, and American business is failing in many of the implementation efforts, if only because the utopian ideal of worker empowerment is very difficult for experienced top-level management trained in classical business management models to accept.

I worked for a big company during the four year implementation of SPC, and I saw first hand the lip service paid to 'Teamwork,' 'Empowerment,' and all the other BS. Processes were changed - starting with the addition of more mid-level management layers. Nothing changed at the top, and eventually, those on the production line understood that the sea change they were promised was never really going to happen.

Cavalry Doc
06-19-2012, 06:21
So how's it different?

Private sector hospitals worry about the bottom line. Management at Public sector ones are not worried, because it's other people's money. All they need is next years budget.

JFrame
06-19-2012, 06:27
Private sector hospitals worry about the bottom line. Management at Public sector ones are not worried, because it's other people's money. All they need is next years budget.

Beat me to it, Doc...

There is little to no accountability for performance in the government, other than the personal integrity and dedication that a given individual brings to his job. And sadly, such integrity and dedication appear to be a diminishing qualities, in at least a large swath of the populace -- to be replaced by "self esteem," which is evidently the primary subject taught in American public schools nowadays...


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certifiedfunds
06-19-2012, 06:35
Too bad so many people can't afford it.

Not when they're double-paying and trying to function as consumers within the hyper-inflated healthcare environment and paying the socialist taxes of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

Compare the costs of concierge medicine with the FULL BURDEN of a person's healthcare costs (employee, employer, Medicare, Medicaid) and it gets remarkably attractive.

and this still ignores the price lowering market forces that would be unleashed.

certifiedfunds
06-19-2012, 06:40
So after they quit, where will they go to make a comparable income?

Where I live, so many people are on Medicare that doctors are already well-adjusted.

Baloney. There is no "well-adjusted". Docs in a high medicare environment like Tampa (I've done business there for years) struggle to survive. Many are limiting their % of Medicare patients now.

You started this "where will they go to make a comparable income" thing a couple weeks ago and had it roundly squashed, by Rabbi IIRC. There are any number of ways to out earn a physician, and likely work fewer hours doing it.

JFrame
06-19-2012, 06:43
Baloney. There is no "well-adjusted". Docs in a high medicare environment like Tampa (I've done business there for years) struggle to survive. Many are limiting their % of Medicare patients now.

You started this "where will they go to make a comparable income" thing a couple weeks ago and had it roundly squashed, by Rabbi IIRC. There are any number of ways to out earn a physician, and likely work fewer hours doing it.


Case in point -- my brother-in-law gave up a long career as a physician because it just wasn't worth the effort and aggravation to him, went to law school, and is now a lawyer.


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