Bushmaster, Colt or Armalite... [Archive]

JerryWahid

03-19-2003, 21:15

I'm lookin to get an AR 15 type rifle in the near future and I'm lookin to spend around $1K. I like the Bushmasters I've been looking at but I was wondering if there is a difference in quality between these three manufacturers. In particular I am looking at the Bushmaster XM15 E2S A3...I like the 20 inch barrel and the removable handle/flat rail scope mount area. Any and all advice is highly appreciated.

thisaway

03-19-2003, 21:27

All of these are reputable makes, with likely little difference in quality between them. The Bushmasters seem to be the most popular brand right now though (notwithstanding last year's sharpshooter murders in Maryland/Virginia).

There is a wealth of information on www.ar15.com concerning the AR10/AR15/M16 series of weapons. Check it out.

sigpro357

03-19-2003, 21:30

Only one. BUSHMASTER.

BKVic

03-19-2003, 21:44

Colt!!!!

BKVic

WalterGA

03-19-2003, 22:42

Bushmaster! Anything else is just a copy! ;) (That's what the Colt people always say)

There are several reasons to get a Bushy, not the least of which is great customer service. Also, standard-size pins, no idiotic block over the trigger bar/safety mechanism, chrome-lined barrel and chamber.

You shouldn't have to pay over about $850 for the rifle that you mentioned.

JerryWahid

03-19-2003, 23:14

yeah $850 is what I got quoted today for that rifle. I really like the bushmasters and I am glad to hear good things about their quality as well as customer service. Also I have gotten the impression that they may be having financial or business related trouble. Is this so? I think they may have some sort of army contract because a friend of mine in the army told me he was packing one. thanks for the help.

Jayman

03-19-2003, 23:16

I've got an Armalite AR-10, and have had no problems with the rifle. I had feeding problems with one of the magazines, and Armalite fixed it up and sent it back to me quickly and with no hassle. They answer their emails quickly as well.

One of my friends has an Armalite AR-15, and he's the one who convinced me to go with Armalite.

I don't think you'll go wrong with a Bushmaster, btw, I've heard good things about them as well. I'd just urge you to take a look at the Armalites as well.

Armalite offers chrome lined barrels as well as not, and a wide variety of uppers that you can swap out in case you want a shorter barrel, longer barrel, flat top, etc., etc.

JerryWahid

03-20-2003, 07:15

Thanks folks. Looks like I really cant go wrong with any of these rifles. I think I'll just go to a gun store that carries a variety of AR type rifles and see which one gives me the best feeling. I feel very fortunate to have an oppurtunity to buy one of these bad boys. I dont currently own an evil black rifle and I would feel alot better if I did.

Jayman

03-20-2003, 09:34

Originally posted by JerryWahid
Thanks folks. Looks like I really cant go wrong with any of these rifles. I think I'll just go to a gun store that carries a variety of AR type rifles and see which one gives me the best feeling. I feel very fortunate to have an oppurtunity to buy one of these bad boys. I dont currently own an evil black rifle and I would feel alot better if I did. Probably your best bet. :) Let us know what you choose, and why!

macgregor45

03-20-2003, 09:40

Don't forget Rock River Arms. Works of art.

www.rockriverarms.com

Roughneck-2zero

03-20-2003, 10:22

Of all the AR-15 manufacturers, Colt is the only one I WILL NOT buy. They gone out of their way to redesign their rifles so they are non-mil-spec now. They will function fine but they are over-priced, over-rated and parts from other manufacturers will not fit.

Bushmaster, Armalite, DPMS, Olympic, Rock River Arms, FN, and others are all mil-spec and fine weapons.

Roughneck-2zero

03-20-2003, 10:35

Whatever configuration of rifle you want. You should look for:

Military specification (mil-spec) design & tolerances,
Forged alloy upper & lower receivers, some are just cast,
Chrome lined barrel,
Manganese-phosphate finished,

I know all Bushmasters come this way, most others do also.
Olympic offers a entry level cast-alloy lower receiver for about $70 (stripped). They also have better forged-alloy ones for a little more. I don't know if their barrels are chrome-lined.

midnight

03-20-2003, 11:55

This question has been discussed at length, to say the least. I've probably read between 5-10 threads on this very question over at AR15.com. What I gather from all of them is that
a) in fit, finish, and function they are all basically the same
b) the only differences are
i) how much you pay
ii) customer service once its bought
iii)what the name means to you

After considering all these, I bought a Bushmaster. I've never regretted it.

vote Republican

03-20-2003, 12:15

I just got a bushie shorty, a friend has a 16" dissipator. Almost the exact same gun otherwise. However, I got the fluted barrel. Holding my gun then his, I was amazed how much lighter mine was.

If you are looking for something that you might be holding or carrying for any amount of time, you may want to consider that.

Just my 2 cents.

Jayman

03-20-2003, 12:17

Oh yeah, and whichever one you get, get a good sling for it. You won't regret it. I got one from CQB Solutions. (cqbsolutions.com)

Old School

03-20-2003, 14:25

I have a pre-ban Colt that runs flawlessly. I've heard that recent Colt production is not what it used to be. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

JerryWahid

03-20-2003, 15:39

It may be some amount of time before I have the money to make my purchase but I am confident now that Bushmaster is the brand I should go with. What is the advantage to having a fluted barrel? Is it a matter of weight to strength ratio? Pardon my ignorance please. I absolutely cannot wait to get my hands on my own AR. I apologize if this thread is a repeat of other threads. You have all been very helpful.

JerryWahid

03-20-2003, 15:48

Originally posted by macgregor45
Don't forget Rock River Arms. Works of art.

www.rockriverarms.com

Man, why did you have to do that? I thought I had things figured out. Those are some serious rifles for very very competitive prices. I wonder about availability though. I like this one http://www.rockriverarms.com/national_match_a2_-_cmp_legal.htm

I will have to look into this. I assume that they are mil-spec.

Wow.

Falcore

03-20-2003, 15:52

You want a 556 throat not a 223rem.

mcknife

03-20-2003, 15:59

Armalite!

MuRDoC

03-20-2003, 16:03

stick to your A,B,C's, armalite for accuracy, colt for collecting, bushy for all around shooting, collecting, and accuracy ;f I like all three and I own a colt 20inch hbar and have shot all, stay away from oly's I know that some people have them but they're crap nevershot one that didn't break or jam while at the range(all within a 100 rounds) I do have bad luck though

AZ Gunner

03-20-2003, 16:08

All three brands are excellent choices. As previously stated, I would also include Rock River Arms.

Colt is the "SONY" of AR15s. It's the long standing, household name with years of experience. Like with "SONY" there are other brands, but this is "the one to have". Reliability is excellent, as with the other brands. This is the one to buy, if you like to buy/flash brand names, and don't mind paying the premium for the name. Colts will run approximately $900-1300 new retail. Due to politics and business, Colt modified some of their parts. You may run into issues with parts fitting, if you ever replace or change parts on your Colt.

Bushmaster is the Colt nemesis, just as well known but not "the original". Reliability is on par with the others. approximate new retail is $800-950. They are favored for being "Mil-spec", so you won't have problems swapping or replacing parts (unless you're trying to use Colt parts). Bushmaster does have an issue with their bluing process so it is common for Bushmaster uppers/lowers to have purplish tint to them. It does not affect performance in any way. However, if you are concerned with cosmetics make sure the upper and lower "match" before you buy.

I do not own a Armalite. However, by "general knowledge" they are on par with Colt and Bushmaster in reliability and price.

Rock River Arms is the new kid on the block. They are making their mark in the industry. Parts are "mil-spec". The finish is very good and consistent. Their price reflects that they are introducing themselves to the AR industry. Approximate new retail is $650-850.

Make the choice that suits your needs/wants/budget. Either way, you will be getting a quality firearm. Let us know what you decide and why. Good luck.

03-20-2003, 17:05

I would get a Colt or a Armalite.

If you want a Bushmaster I will sell you mine,I have a Bushmaster V-Match.

WalterGA

03-20-2003, 17:32

So, bgbill, what's wrong with your Bushmaster?

03-20-2003, 17:40

Originally posted by WalterGA
So, bgbill, what's wrong with your Bushmaster?

Nothing, I just prefer my Colts.

I have a CAR A3 Elite, that I prefer over the V-Match.

B Coyote

03-20-2003, 19:55

Of all the AR-15 manufacturers, Colt is the only one I WILL NOT buy. They gone out of their way to redesign their rifles so they are non-mil-spec now. They will function fine but they are over-priced, over-rated and parts from other manufacturers will not fit.

Yep. This can make parts replacement difficult.

You want a 556 throat not a 223rem.

Definately. .223 throats can have problems handling the hotter 5.56mm ammunition that is MUCH more effective as an anti-personel round.

I researched the crap out of my Bushmaster purpose. I figured since I was about to spend a BUNCH of money, I should get the best. I ended up with the Bushy A3 Dissipator. Here's why:

[list=1]
5.56mm throat. I have the ability to shoot MilSpec ammo in my rifle.
MilSpec parts. Fixing problems should they arise should be no sweat.
Excellent fit and finish. 'Nuff said.
The 16" barrel gives me good veloctiy over the 14" tubes that look so cool and I don't lose that much of the effectiveness of the 20" standard barrel.
Full length sight radius. If I want my iron sights, I have the long sighting radius that the carbine-type AR's do not.
[/list=1]

Good luck in your choice....

bc

jgladieux

03-20-2003, 20:54

I've got two my Gunsmith built, one is a Rockrivers FlatTop with a Colt A1 LW barrel.
http://pictures.auctionarms.com/3275234358/1_Rock%20River%20Arms%20AR-15%2062500.jpg
and the other is a Bushmaster w/ a EGW muzzlebrake installed.
http://pictures.auctionarms.com/3275234358/ACFCB42.jpg
Take your pick 700.00 each plus shipping to your FFL.;f Ramline 30 not included, will sub out for a 20rd mag

aleffert

03-20-2003, 20:54

I bought a colt LE Model and I am very very happy with it. Another officer on my dept bought a bushmaster and he is nothing but unhappy. He has had numerous jams due to rounds not feeding into the chamber right, firing pin broke, and it is starting to rust just after about nine months. He said that their customer service is very horrible and there has been some problems with their QA Dept over the past 18 months. He wishes now that would have gone with the Colt. I wish you good luck in your choice.

WFR

03-20-2003, 22:23

I own the exact model Bushmaster you were asking about.
I bought it slightly used and have had nothing but great results!
I am astonished at the groups this rifle is capable of.
Another plus for Bushmaster is CUSTOMER SERVICE!!
When you call you get to speak to a real, friendly person (gun nut) that is willing to help you out with your question.
I had a question regarding obtaining a battle sight zero for my rifle and the customer service rep was more than happy to explain my options as well as recommend some ammo to try and some that had a less than stellar reputation in the Bushmasters.
It's mil-spec, accurate and I love it!

winglock

03-21-2003, 00:19

I own the Bushy, and love it, but also think all you've mentioned are good.

micah

03-21-2003, 06:37

I'm partial to Colts, but only because I love Colt products(if anyone has any Lightnings for sale, I'm always buying). All the guns you mentioned are nice, you can't make a bad choice.

45acp4me

03-21-2003, 07:38

Rock River Arms for me thank you. :)

Tight tolerances, and possibly the best trigger on an out of the box AR-15. The only downside is the non-chrome lined barrel, other than that, it's right up there with Bushmaster.

Regards,
Glen

mark123

03-21-2003, 08:46

Here is a more important question:

Which style of AR-15 do you want. I bought a Bushmaster A2 style (carry handle, not removable) and wished after the first week of buying it that I had bought an A4 so that I could mount a scope in the place it is meant to be. If you are going to buy a scope for it I would suggest an A3 or A4 model...no one actually carries the gun with the handle anyway, they just get in the way.

I know, I know, you can mount a scope on it but if you go in front of the carry handle it is too far away and if you go on top of the carry handle your cheek weld is all lost.

macgregor45

03-21-2003, 08:46

Originally posted by JerryWahid
Man, why did you have to do that? I thought I had things figured out. Those are some serious rifles for very very competitive prices. I wonder about availability though. I like this one http://www.rockriverarms.com/national_match_a2_-_cmp_legal.htm

I will have to look into this. I assume that they are mil-spec.

Wow.

Availability is not a real big deal, I currently have a semi-custom on order from them and they said 4 weeks or so. I can wait that long. The best thing is, I thought I would have to add a bunch of stuff to it after I got it in, but everything I wanted they said they could do. Like free-float, narrow front sight, brake, etc... I am needing a Limited rifle for USPSA and they gave me exactly what I needed. The only thing I change on my AR's that they couldn't do is an ErgoGrip, Gapper, and a tac-latch. I have long fingers so the ErgoGrip is a necessity, the Gapper keeps the bottom of the trigger guard from rubbing my finger raw, and the Tac-latch is just personal preference.

MarksGlock22

03-21-2003, 11:32

I recommend Bushmaster, but Colt and Armalite are also exellent makes.I just don't like Colts use of non-standard pins and that stupid block.;Q

asp

03-21-2003, 11:53

After owning two Colt AR's, I have settled on Bushmaster as my favorite. BM customer service folks are very friendly and helpful, should you ever need them. However, I doubt you would be unhappy with any of the three companies you mentioned.

JerryWahid

03-21-2003, 16:37

Originally posted by B Coyote

Definately. .223 throats can have problems handling the hotter 5.56mm ammunition that is MUCH more effective as an anti-personel round.

Pardon my ignorance but I dont know what the difference is. Any help would be appreciated.

WalterGA

03-21-2003, 16:46

What's the difference in the "throat" of a 5.56mm vs. .233-chambered AR? I thought the differences were in chamber, not throat dimensions.

B Coyote

03-21-2003, 18:29

This is taken from the AR-15.com Ammo FAQ section.

Last night I was going off memory from my research notes. They say the difference is as follows:

The big difference between the two chambers is in the chamber dimensions. Military M16s have slightly more headspace and have a longer throat area, compared to the SAAMI .223 chamber spec, which was originally designed for bolt-action rifles. Commercial SAAMI-specification .223 chambers have a much shorter throat, a smaller diameter bullet seat and less freebore than the military chamber.

That's the difference. Click here for the entire article. (http://www.ammo-oracle.com/#diff)

Regards,
bc

Chopshopchopper

03-21-2003, 19:18

www.wilsoncombat.com

Roughneck-2zero

03-21-2003, 19:57

Yes, Wilson Combat & now Les Baer now make AR-15's.
These have "machined" receivers and are incredible weapons. If you have a lot of money these are THE VERY BEST!
Wilsons start at about $1500, Les Baers start at $3000.

WalterGA

03-21-2003, 20:37

Coyote: Thanks for the info. Longer throat's handling higher pressures makes sense. Is that also known as the "Monica" throat?

03-21-2003, 21:03

I also vote for RRA

You can get them with a chrome lined barrel...but

Chrome lined barrels are not really a priority unless you plan on full auto fire and an extended stay in the jungle!

45acp4me

03-21-2003, 21:15

Originally posted by WalterGA
Coyote: Thanks for the info. Longer throat's handling higher pressures makes sense. Is that also known as the "Monica" throat?

Dude, you are talking Bill Clinton here, pressures are probably close to those of a CB cap. :)

On the chrome lined barrel, the only other big thing it does is make the rifle easier to clean. It's a little more for the chrome lined barrel, like $25.

Cheers!
Glen

TLHelmer

03-22-2003, 07:01

I love my Bushmaster Shorty AK:cool:

B Coyote

03-22-2003, 08:38

The Monica throat...I like that. hehehe

Anyway...the whole 5.56mm/.223 chamber thing makes sense. The 5.56mm has an oversized portion....similar in theory to Glock's chamber; a little bigger gives you better combat reliablity.

Regards,
bc

Rinspeed

03-22-2003, 09:01

I decided on a RRA after comparing the fit, finish and overall
quality to a Bushmaster. They were close but I just felt the RRA was
slightly nicer. Rock Rivers reputation for building a very fine
1911 also helped in the decision.

Rinspeed

Rinspeed

03-22-2003, 10:54

I can't figure what the problem is with me posting
a pic. I've done it several times on other boards
with the same format. Any suggestions?

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgDqAtwUquL1LVWsALBFLK*AGiYKwVcJPGThaYUmAh6mvbfLNEYM2cqhUAxHp8ZVoozTSnKNI5wgoBvaw7HhfMql4UEEAX*ulNY iP1Z2u60/Surefire-3.JPG?dc=4675343725561280337

WalterGA

03-22-2003, 11:21

"Chrome lined barrels are not really a priority unless you plan on full auto fire and an extended stay in the jungle!"

Or if you'd like your barrel to last thousands of rounds longer than a non-chrome barrel in normal shooting.

vlazlow

03-22-2003, 14:09

I have an Olympic Arms that was originally set up as a CAR 15. I didn’t have much luck w/ the 14” barrel and short sight radius. It would keyhole real bad w/ 55gr. rounds. I sent the upper to Bushmaster and had the Dissipator barrel installed. The new barrel made all the difference in the world. I also have a built rifle that was set up for a LEO rifle instructor’s course: Sendra lower, GI upper, 20” heavy fluted barrel. Very nice but the little rifle is the one I would grab when TSHTF. Both rifles are pre-ban. My father found a DPMS pre ban and had the collapsible stock and the Dissipater barrel installed by Bushmaster. Bushmaster installed the parts and did some minor gunsmithing for free. He was so impressed that he bought a 20” Bushie. Here is a photo of my OlyArms with the 16” Dissipater barrel and Propoint sight.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid48/pd4fe1f37601741f9f1da7049dc24b032/fcb879c5.jpg

WalterGA

03-22-2003, 17:06

"These have "machined" receivers and are incredible weapons."

I inspected a Wilson AR at our local range. The "machined" receiver is a plain ol' Rock River Arms. The trigger assembly was the same JP trigger/hammer as I use in my Bushmaster. The free-float tube was the same bottom-of-the-line-but-durable DPMS tube. Don't know who makes their barrels, but it sure as heck ain't them.

B Coyote

03-22-2003, 19:56

vlazlow,

The Dissipator's are the bomb-diggity. ;) I LOVE mine. Though I do wish I had the flash supressor. M193 gives me one HELL of a flash, even in early evening light.

My opinion, and it's just that, is that for general use (ie. plinking, SHTF, and high fun factor) the 16" tube is the way to go for the average guy. The 20" is nice if you want to do more serious target style shooting, and the <16" tubes are worthless due to the velocity loss. The 16" barrel gives the shooter almost as much effective range as the 20", yet still retains the handiness of the shorter barrel lengths. In addition, the Dissipator gives the shooter the benefit of a full length sight radius that the short forend carbine style guns do not. The best of all worlds. :)

Or if you'd like your barrel to last thousands of rounds longer than a non-chrome barrel in normal shooting.

Walter, I agree with you fully. Spend the extra couple bucks and get a better barrel. If your spending the quanity of money that AR-type rifles cost, why skimp on the barrel?

bc

JerryWahid

03-23-2003, 16:22

I was thinking about something and I would like some advice. Hypothetical: If I bought a Mini 14 instead of an AR I could afford to put a night vision scope on that bad boy and do some serious damage on some coyotes. What kind of groups could I expect out of a Mini 14 and what are the benefits of an AR over a Mini 14? Of course this is all just an idea. What are your thoughts on Mini 14's in general?

AZ Gunner

03-23-2003, 16:40

You'll get far better accuracy out of an AR. Quality high caps for an AR cheap and plentiful. Quality high caps for the Mini-14 are factory Ruger only. They run about $100 each used, versus $15 used for an AR. You can create far more different configurations of AR, than you can a Mini-14. you can "fine tune" your AR set up to fit your frame and needs.

JerryWahid

03-23-2003, 16:47

I need to learn more about the different parts of these rifles and the corresponding configurantions that can be achieved and the results of said configurations. Where can I go on the interent to get edumacated?

B Coyote

03-23-2003, 17:41

Where can I go on the interent to get edumacated?

www.AR15.com would be a good start as would http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us .

bc

AZ Gunner

03-23-2003, 17:47

www.ar15.com

www.armalite.com

www.bushmaster.com

www.cavalryarms.com

www.colt.com

www.dpmsinc.com

www.fulton-armory.com

www.lesbaer.com

www.norala.biz

www.rockrvierarms.com

;G

You weren't planning on making the big decision any time soon, were you? ;f

JerryWahid

03-23-2003, 18:04

Originally posted by B Coyote
www.AR15.com would be a good start as would http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us .

bc

Wow...Information Overload.

JerryWahid

03-23-2003, 18:15

This is like anything else I think. You can look at pictures all day long and not become familiar with a firearm. Before I bought my Glock I knew the basic parts of semiauto pistols. Barrel, slide, guide rod, etc...but I didnt have a practical knowledge of how they went together. Now I could field strip and put back together with my eyes closed. I think once I finally get an AR and I strip it down and see all the parts I will have the same understanding of it as I do my G17. Now as far as detail stripping the Glock I'm gonna hold off on that until someone who has done it before is there to guide me along...Thanks for all your help folks.

WalterGA

03-24-2003, 08:04

"Now as far as detail stripping the Glock I'm gonna hold off on that until someone who has done it before is there to guide me along...Thanks for all your help folks."

Believe me, your Glock's not a precision Swiss watch. Tiny parts aren't going to jump out at you! If you can read and understand the English language and follow simple instructions, everything you need can be found on glockmeister.com, under "Free Services".

It's so simple, I'm convinced a DemocRAT could be trained to do it, given no time constraints.

Jayman

03-24-2003, 09:35

Originally posted by WalterGA
"Now as far as detail stripping the Glock I'm gonna hold off on that until someone who has done it before is there to guide me along...Thanks for all your help folks."

Believe me, your Glock's not a precision Swiss watch. Tiny parts aren't going to jump out at you! If you can read and understand the English language and follow simple instructions, everything you need can be found on glockmeister.com, under "Free Services".

It's so simple, I'm convinced a DemocRAT could be trained to do it, given no time constraints. Yeah, if you think stripping down a Glock is a bear, I feel for you with an AR. It takes me two hours to fully clean and service my rifle, there's LOTS more parts and LOTS more square area to clean.

WalterGA

03-24-2003, 14:25

I find field-stripping my Bushy to be pretty easy. I rarely detail-strip the lower, but do keep it clean and properly-lubed.

Jayman

03-24-2003, 16:05

Originally posted by WalterGA
I find field-stripping my Bushy to be pretty easy. I rarely detail-strip the lower, but do keep it clean and properly-lubed. Taking it all apart and putting back together: easy. Making sure it's all clean: not as easy. :)

wayne5plus1

03-25-2003, 02:49

Bushmaster...the glocks of the AR world...

Lone Revolver

02-22-2004, 16:17

Get an Armalite. Go with the company that produced the first AR-15s. (they sold the design to colt later)

nipperwolf

02-22-2004, 17:51

you brought a year old thread out of the grave just to say that??

younggenious

02-22-2004, 18:57

Great! I learned something just now (about the 5.56 throat vs. the .223 throat). I assume that .223 still fits perfectly fine in the 5.56 throat, right?

Also, while a chrome lined barrel will last longer and clean easier, if you are greatly concerned about accuracy, non-chrome lined barrels are known to yield slightly better accuracy. I, however, would go with the chrome lined barrel. I also wouldn't be strayed too much by all the other AR-15 manufacturers out there (some of them aren't that great). I personally have narrowed it down to either Bushmaster or Armalite.