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FireForged
06-21-2012, 19:17
I decided to down size my med kit into this Condor break-away med bag. I am very pleased with it and purchased the bag from LAPoliceGear. Pics below

Seams, pouches, pockets, loops, velcro, rings, snaps, buckle, webing, dual zippers- all seem top tier as far as quailty and construction.

The break-away panel attaches to a vest or any base with molle style loops. When you need the kit you release the strap and just pull it off. The panel stays afixed to the vest. It is very stable on a vest and seems nearly impossible to accidentally come off. I give it a nifty 5 stars.

DustyJacket
06-21-2012, 19:47
Good man - I see you keep a Godiva chocolate in there.

No eye wash?

FireForged
06-21-2012, 19:51
I have a bottle I use for wound irrigation but it just doesnt fit. I do need something,.. what would you suggest? It would have to be small.

DustyJacket
06-21-2012, 19:56
I am not up to date on the latest stuff, my full-sized trama kit had to be dumped - everything expired, and there was leakage.

Perhaps some liquid tears, of eye lubricant from a contact lense supply shelf?

UneasyRider
06-22-2012, 05:40
Just a thought that you might want to really up the number of standard band-aids that you carry. My experience in post huricane clean up is that you could make a good living selling all sizes of stick on bandages. Same goes for walking long distance for the first time, it chews up the feet and you lose a toe nail or two.

humanguerrilla
06-28-2012, 13:30
Condor is hardly top tier quality. I'd go ahead and replace the zipper pulls with paracord loops or something if you intend to actually use, move, or even look at it. The cheap plastic keepers are the first thing to go and are annoying, cracking and coming apart. The quality of their pouches vary but watch the stitching and zippers.

thetoastmaster
06-30-2012, 09:52
I am much more concerned with what is in the pouch than the quality of the pouch itself. For most people and applications, the Southeast Asian low-bit pouches are fine. Most of the time, it will be sitting in a closet or on a shelf anyway. You don't need a Paraclete or London Bridge pouch for that. Spend the money on training and good gear, like CAT tourniquets, NAR decompression needles, and Hemcon dressings (if you really want to spend some cash).

humanguerrilla
06-30-2012, 13:56
......

thetoastmaster
06-30-2012, 14:16
......

I agree, generally. I'm not a fan of Condor, Voodoo, or the rest of the CtD-level of pouches; but pouches generally see less wear than pack, for instance.

I have an off-brand (probably Condor) zippered MOLLE pouch on my school bag that I used to keep my stethoscope in. After two years of everyday use, the cord zipper pulls are frayed; and the paint is worn off the brass drain grommet. Other that that, it's fine.

Generally, for off the shelf gear, I set my lower threshold with Camelbak for bags and Tactical Tailor for pouches knowing that there is a lot higher-end gear available.

AK_Stick
06-30-2012, 20:43
What do you have in the kit? Kinda hard to tell from the photos, but it looks like you're lacking any sort of trauma capability.

FireForged
06-30-2012, 23:00
...........

syntaxerrorsix
07-01-2012, 07:56
I'd loose the finger splint and 50% of the bandages, Q-tips and assorted goo and add a real tourniquet, an Israeli bandage a suture kit and a small tin or bag with a few OTC's.

ETA oh and moleskin..

thetoastmaster
07-01-2012, 08:46
I'd loose the finger splint and 50% of the bandages, Q-tips and assorted goo and add a real tourniquet, an Israeli bandage a suture kit and a small tin or bag with a few OTC's.

ETA oh and moleskin..

For an on-person IFAK, I'd concentrate on treating hemorrhage, pneumothorax, and airway maintenance. Move everything else to your larger medic bag (if applicable) or boo boo kit. For an IFAK, I don't want to claw through the moleskin and band-aids to get to the tourniquet.

Just my two cents.

syntaxerrorsix
07-01-2012, 08:58
For an on-person IFAK, I'd concentrate on treating hemorrhage, pneumothorax, and airway maintenance. Move everything else to your larger medic bag (if applicable) or boo boo kit. For an IFAK, I don't want to claw through the moleskin and band-aids to get to the tourniquet.

Just my two cents.

I pretty much agree with this, it looks like the OP is trying to get the best of both worlds. For me that's self treatable conditions so I didn't consider airway maintenance, if I need a tube it's likely someone else will be installing it. Correctly packing the kit eliminates clawing though anything in my opinion.

thetoastmaster
07-01-2012, 09:15
I pretty much agree with this, it looks like the OP is trying to get the best of both worlds. For me that's self treatable conditions so I didn't consider airway maintenance, if I need a tube it's likely someone else will be installing it. Correctly packing the kit eliminates clawing though anything in my opinion.

I keep an NPA and OPA in my kit so that someone else can use it on me. If I'm awake and fighting, I won't need it. My attitude regarding the IFAK is that it's not to share. Everyone has to have their own, know how to use its contents, and keep them handy. As a pre-hospital caregiver, I am going to try to treat folks with their own gear to take the pressure off my own limited supplies. Yes, have a properly-sized OPA and NPA, and a packet or two of surgical lubricant, for your own sake and for the person treating you.

In my experience, "best of both worlds" isn't; but YMMV. I keep all my bbo boo and snivel meds in a GI-issue box in my pack, and an IFAK on my LBV. I'll be putting together the equivalent on an advanced M3 bag this summer, when the finances come together; but that's beyond the scope of this discussion.

syntaxerrorsix
07-01-2012, 09:30
I keep an NPA and OPA in my kit so that someone else can use it on me. If I'm awake and fighting, I won't need it. My attitude regarding the IFAK is that it's not to share. Everyone has to have their own, know how to use its contents, and keep them handy. As a pre-hospital caregiver, I am going to try to treat folks with their own gear to take the pressure off my own limited supplies. Yes, have a properly-sized OPA and NPA, and a packet or two of surgical lubricant, for your own sake and for the person treating you.

In my experience, "best of both worlds" isn't; but YMMV. I keep all my bbo boo and snivel meds in a GI-issue box in my pack, and an IFAK on my LBV. I'll be putting together the equivalent on an advanced M3 bag this summer, when the finances come together; but that's beyond the scope of this discussion.

I didn't mean to say that I don't have the equipment I just don't pack it in my primary kit. It rides in my truck.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo144/syntaxerrorsix/2011-04-11_12-31-12_49.jpg?t=1302817888

This is what I keep available for immediate access in my GHB.

http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo144/syntaxerrorsix/2011-04-11_12-30-32_394.jpg?t=1302817991

I agree, the kit isn't to share but I also feel that the chances of anyone else in the civilian world having there own kit is extremely unlikely.

thetoastmaster
07-01-2012, 09:49
In a WCS, folks that <i>need</i> gear from an IFAK, but don't have their own, will likely get a black tag. That's a hard fact of life. Our resources are limited. I have enough for everyone in my family, maybe.

Of course in a grid-down scenario it's all moot anyway. What we're talking about is stabilization until we can call in an ambulance or air evac.

There is a lot of good information on the web about IKAK/blowout kits; and we're getting to the point where there is no excuse not to have two or three. If cost is an issue, hold off on the next gun purchase and get some good advanced first aid supplies.

In my particular group I've run into this. It's hard to get folks to spend the money of QuikClot, Israeli dressings, and CAT tourniquets; but they think constantly of building another AR. It makes me want to :brickwall::brickwall::brickwall:

Sorry for the rant.

To anyone that is putting together IFAK's, kudos. I salute you. :patriot::cheers:

syntaxerrorsix
07-01-2012, 09:54
In a WCS, folks that <i>need</i> gear from an IFAK, but don't have their own, will likely get a black tag. That's a hard fact of life. Our resources are limited. I have enough for everyone in my family, maybe.

Of course in a grid-down scenario it's all moot anyway. What we're talking about is stabilization until we can call in an ambulance or air evac.

There is a lot of good information on the web about IKAK/blowout kits; and we're getting to the point where there is no excuse not to have two or three. If cost is an issue, hold off on the next gun purchase and get some good advanced first aid supplies.

In my particular group I've run into this. It's hard to get folks to spend the money of QuikClot, Israeli dressings, and CAT tourniquets; but they think constantly of building another AR. It makes me want to :brickwall::brickwall::brickwall:

Sorry for the rant.

To anyone that is putting together IFAK's, kudos. I salute you. :patriot::cheers:

:rofl:

Very true. For some prep stops at the gun.

FireForged
07-01-2012, 10:04
Thanks for all the responses..I'm gonna delete some items and add some as well.

AK_Stick
07-01-2012, 17:00
I keep an NPA and OPA in my kit so that someone else can use it on me. If I'm awake and fighting, I won't need it. My attitude regarding the IFAK is that it's not to share. Everyone has to have their own, know how to use its contents, and keep them handy. As a pre-hospital caregiver, I am going to try to treat folks with their own gear to take the pressure off my own limited supplies. Yes, have a properly-sized OPA and NPA, and a packet or two of surgical lubricant, for your own sake and for the person treating you.

In my experience, "best of both worlds" isn't; but YMMV. I keep all my bbo boo and snivel meds in a GI-issue box in my pack, and an IFAK on my LBV. I'll be putting together the equivalent on an advanced M3 bag this summer, when the finances come together; but that's beyond the scope of this discussion.


Well, the most likely use for an IFAK, is treating someone else, outside of a a "tactical" scenario.


On the civilian side, I've used my IFAK a couple of times, and never on myself. I also have an aid bag, but it seems to always be further away than the IFAK, so it gets the least use.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 17:14
In a WCS, folks that <i>need</i> gear from an IFAK, but don't have their own, will likely get a black tag. That's a hard fact of life. Our resources are limited. I have enough for everyone in my family, maybe.

Of course in a grid-down scenario it's all moot anyway. What we're talking about is stabilization until we can call in an ambulance or air evac.

There is a lot of good information on the web about IKAK/blowout kits; and we're getting to the point where there is no excuse not to have two or three. If cost is an issue, hold off on the next gun purchase and get some good advanced first aid supplies.

In my particular group I've run into this. It's hard to get folks to spend the money of QuikClot, Israeli dressings, and CAT tourniquets; but they think constantly of building another AR. It makes me want to :brickwall::brickwall::brickwall:

Sorry for the rant.

To anyone that is putting together IFAK's, kudos. I salute you. :patriot::cheers:

I'm not a big fan of the israeli dressings. Hard to get sufficient pressure, and I prefer not stretchy tails. Better than nothing though. After using the israeli dressing a few times, I prefer the old fashioned aid dressing.

Be sure you understand when quickclot is good to use, and when it is not. Be aware that it gets hot enough to burn, but not hot enough to cauterize. Keep it away from internal organs. It is good for its originally intended purpose.

syntaxerrorsix
07-01-2012, 17:31
I'm not a big fan of the israeli dressings. Hard to get sufficient pressure, and I prefer not stretchy tails. Better than nothing though. After using the israeli dressing a few times, I prefer the old fashioned aid dressing.

Be sure you understand when quickclot is good to use, and when it is not. Be aware that it gets hot enough to burn, but not hot enough to cauterize. Keep it away from internal organs. It is good for its originally intended purpose.

Kaolin based "quick clot" does not create an exothermic reaction. It's important to note the difference.

ETA.. The older zeolite based product hasn't been used since 2008.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 18:00
Kaolin based "quick clot" does not create an exothermic reaction. It's important to note the difference.

ETA.. The older zeolite based product hasn't been used since 2008.

Well not yet anyway. :whistling: Thanks for the tip. I may have to investigate thew new stuff. I haven't been all that active in prehospital trauma management since 2006.


I've seen the older stuff I am used to sold at gun shows. It's out there.

syntaxerrorsix
07-01-2012, 18:22
Well not yet anyway. :whistling: Thanks for the tip. I may have to investigate thew new stuff. I haven't been all that active in prehospital trauma management since 2006.


I've seen the older stuff I am used to sold at gun shows. It's out there.

I'm sure older stock is still available.

Docmusolf
07-01-2012, 18:28
Don't forget chest seal and NPA and if trained needle for chest decompression. Gloves and CPR mask are essential as well.


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AK_Stick
07-01-2012, 18:32
Well not yet anyway. :whistling: Thanks for the tip. I may have to investigate thew new stuff. I haven't been all that active in prehospital trauma management since 2006.


I've seen the older stuff I am used to sold at gun shows. It's out there.



Yep, but most of it should be expired by now.


We got issued the new stuff on my last deployment. It works pretty good.

Doc8404
07-01-2012, 18:36
I am much more concerned with what is in the pouch than the quality of the pouch itself. For most people and applications, the Southeast Asian low-bit pouches are fine. Most of the time, it will be sitting in a closet or on a shelf anyway. You don't need a Paraclete or London Bridge pouch for that. Spend the money on training and good gear, like CAT tourniquets, NAR decompression needles, and Hemcon dressings (if you really want to spend some cash).

NAR decompression needles? are you ****ting me? They are merely 30 cent angiocaths that they sell for $15....

only a fool (and the military) spends money on that.

WhiskeyUnicorn
07-01-2012, 19:03
I dunno why most people need an Ifak. He's probably good with what he has in there as most people are only equipped medically to put band aids on. Most shooters don't know how or when to needle decompress a chest. I guess its like shooting. Take the time to get trained and use your gear effectively

I also agree on cheap caths. I work on a bus so making an Ifak is rather easy for me. Get the training and learn how to use stuff and what's important to have. Go from there. And remember... Duct tape wrapped around a gift card is worth its weight in gold
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Docmusolf
07-01-2012, 19:34
I believe that need is dictated by environment and knowledge to use the ifak. I live in a very rural area where prehospital care is at minimum 25 mins away so I keep a fully stocked trauma bag and defib in the house and my drop bag from iraq in my car. When I lived in a metropolitan area I took for granted my access to care. Now that we live in the sticks I am acutely aware of our isolation. So depending on individual situations needs change. This year alone I have had to perform CPR twice outside of my work environment. Both times help was over 20 mins away.


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maustypsu
07-03-2012, 11:51
I decided to down size my med kit into this Condor break-away med bag. I am very pleased with it and purchased the bag from LAPoliceGear. Pics below

Seams, pouches, pockets, loops, velcro, rings, snaps, buckle, webing, dual zippers- all seem top tier as far as quailty and construction.

The break-away panel attaches to a vest or any base with molle style loops. When you need the kit you release the strap and just pull it off. The panel stays afixed to the vest. It is very stable on a vest and seems nearly impossible to accidentally come off. I give it a nifty 5 stars.

I have a very similar style bag on my BOB which is Molle gear. Tear away and go. My bag is for Immediate Threat to life. I have another that is for comfort or "refills" of extra tape, gauze, betadine, etc. The immediate threat bag includes glucose for diabetes, bayer aspirin for heart attack, ammonia inhalants, celox for bleeding, israeli battle dressing, irrigation, suture kits, etc.

Someone else recommended moving the "extra" bandages and such to another bag. If you do, you will have room for the irrigation and to add glucose/aspirin if you feel those are more immediate needs for some situations.

Nice pack. Hope you never have to use it other than to pull a splinter or stop a paper cut. As with many of our preps, having to use them means something undesirable is happening.

FireForged
07-04-2012, 20:35
I have seen several irrigation refill kits that offer providone iodine but then I hear people say not to use providone iodine. So what is best to use?

racerford
07-04-2012, 21:44
I dunno why most people need an Ifak. He's probably good with what he has in there as most people are only equipped medically to put band aids on. Most shooters don't know how or when to needle decompress a chest. I guess its like shooting. Take the time to get trained and use your gear effectively

.......

I have multiple first aid kits. One in every vehicle and small one at work and a large one at home. Both my wife and I are First Aid trained, but are no near the medical field. We have have rendered aid at a number of car accidents, and the first kit get used for us and of kids often, both car and home.

My having and using specialized burn dressings, took a 15% body coverage liquid burn on my wife's lower abdomen that was classed as a 2nd degree burn by the ambulance crew, to something that the attending ER docutor had to ask where the burn was by the time she saw my wife in the ER. It probably save the skin and an extreme amount of pain.

We live in the country and the shortest ambulance response possible is about 13 mins with a 35minute ride to the ER.

Maybe some don't see a need for non-medical types. It has proven invaluable to me and mine.

On only haveing what you are trained for, I am reminded of a roll-over that occured right in from of us, that we stopped for. Both a doctor and a nurse stopped for the wreck. Heither had a first aid bag. We did. Fortunately no one was seriously hurt (much to the disappointment for the driver who was trying to kill herself and her husband.

Your mileage may vary. :)

maustypsu
07-05-2012, 07:51
I have seen several irrigation refill kits that offer providone iodine but then I hear people say not to use providone iodine. So what is best to use?

For irrigation I use a simple eye/skin irrigation solution. I do use betadine as an antiseptic which is basically povidone iodine.

Where are you seeing folks say that you should not use povidone iodine? Perhaps I, or someone more knowledgable, can clarify their concerns.

Doctor?

John Rambo
07-09-2012, 16:26
So, I'm at this point and I'm stuck in my Medkit. Its a very nice kit, in my opinion, and I will post pics when its complete, but I need some kind of wound wash. I'd prefer something with some antiseptic properties to it, so Saline is kinda 'meh'. The wound would, under almost no circumstances, sit for more than 24 hours before we hit land and were able to get real medical care on the way. And its likely the seawater or spring water would do the excruciating shore of washing the wound out. Just need something to wash all of the foreign nonsense out and keep the wound from festering (repeated applications are fine) for a day or so. Already have triple antibiotic ointment. It can't be in a container thats over 4.5" tall. And most importantly, and what the pharmacist told me that turned me away from betadine, it needs to be useful in deep or large wounds as puncture wounds are frequent in this hobby.

Thoughts?

syntaxerrorsix
07-09-2012, 16:35
Small bottle of H2O2 and an irrigation syringe? Plain old water?

John Rambo
07-09-2012, 17:34
Small bottle of H2O2 and an irrigation syringe? Plain old water?

Hmm, is H2O2 safe to use on deep wounds, too? And would it be safe to put in, say, a plastic water bottle or do you need certain kinds of plastic? I kinda like it better than the straight water idea on the basis that it'll help clean the wound before dressing and keep out infection.

syntaxerrorsix
07-09-2012, 17:48
Hmm, is H2O2 safe to use on deep wounds, too? And would it be safe to put in, say, a plastic water bottle or do you need certain kinds of plastic? I kinda like it better than the straight water idea on the basis that it'll help clean the wound before dressing and keep out infection.

Depends on who you ask. Most "recommendations" call for soapy water and to seek medical attention. You need to keep it in a dark bottle. Sunlight will cause it to break down rapidly.

Cavalry Doc
07-09-2012, 18:10
H2O2 fell out of favor a while back, due to tissue damage.

syntaxerrorsix
07-09-2012, 18:15
H2O2 fell out of favor a while back, due to tissue damage.


So is soapy water the answer now? Then treat with antibiotic ointment?

John Rambo
07-09-2012, 18:48
Hmm...so for large wounds, the duty this kit will be serving, unless we're the next Gilligan's Island, we'll always have more bottled of water than we could drink - best to just grab a bottle out of the cooler and pour it out onto the wound if it needs irrigation, then get it dressed?

Small wounds, I figure the type of antiseptic (if the antibiotic ointment) is less important? I'm a little unnerved by stocking my medkit with anything at this point after reading all of the possible allergic reactions. With my luck I'd be dressing a wound and the person passes out - one thing that attracted me to the H2O2 was how few reports of allergic reaction there seemed to be.

Cavalry Doc
07-09-2012, 18:55
So is soapy water the answer now? Then treat with antibiotic ointment?

The solution for pollution is dilution. Irrigation is a good thing.

Seeking care is a good idea if available.