30-06, 270 Range Advantage over 308? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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glockbanger
06-25-2012, 19:22
How much further can 30-06 and 270 shoot than 308?

glock2740
06-25-2012, 19:33
Hell, let's add .280 to the mix too...:cool:




:popcorn:

countrygun
06-25-2012, 19:48
There is no difference in usable distance and bloody little in theoretical distance.

If you have to ask I would say that any of those shoot farther than you can hit.


edit to add: I didn't mean to sound snarky but I think responses will show that expreienced shooters don't really recognize a significant difference based on the headstamp on the brass of those rounds. "flat shooting" for instance is only really of value around the MBR the scope has been zeroed for. Beyond that it is the skill, and sportsmanship of the shooter. the setting of the MPBR for the loads and guns is not that significantly different either.

Decguns
06-25-2012, 19:48
Way too many variables in question for such a generic question. Are we talking about maximum effective range, maximum range, or what? What weapon? A short barreled rifle may actually shoot 308 faster than 30-06 or 270. A longer barrel may actually give a huge advantage to the 30-06 & 270.

With about 100fps average advantage for the 30-06 or 270 in sporting ammo, there's really no difference in effective range. The 270 Win, with the classic 130gr projectile, just shoots flatter than the 30 cals. Hence its popularity for the past century. The 30-06 and 308 are pretty much even until you get into the heavy 180+ projo's where the 30-06 can take advantage of its larger case capacity.

glockbanger
06-25-2012, 20:11
A short barreled rifle may actually shoot 308 faster than 30-06 or 270. A longer barrel may actually give a huge advantage to the 30-06 & 270.

I'm talking same rifle, same barrel length 22" specifically.

countrygun
06-25-2012, 20:18
I'm talking same rifle, same barrel length 22" specifically.


But what do you mean by "Farther"??????

do you mean if they were set in a 45 degree fixture?

Do you mean to effectivley hunt and kill game???

All we've got so far is "How many numbers in math?"

glockbanger
06-25-2012, 21:27
With their maximum effective bullet grain weight in each caliber respectively. I'm talking at a range that can be "shot at". There's little difference to me in what's considered "effective" and the cloudy distance somewhere beyond that where the bullet throws on it's reverse rockets becomes your cuddly buddy.

I'm less worried about maiming an animal than I am about said animal destroying property. I'm not going off on you guys in particular, but I hear a lot of talk about how "i would never consider shooting an animal at that range". My goodness, if you're worried about injuring an animal, you shouldn't hunt. No matter how good a hunter, sooner or later it will happen that you make a bad shot and leave an animal to suffer.

I guess the range I'm talking about it what can be done without terrible bullet drop.

Wyoming
06-25-2012, 21:27
How much further can 30-06 and 270 shoot than 308?

For practical purposes for the average hunter they are the same.

I am dumb founded when I go to the range before hunting season and watch shooters sight in the rifles. This is Wyoming, rifle country, few can shoot a group.:shocked:

You need to be able to shoot a group some where some place before you even begin to adjust a scope.

If you can hunt and shoot you can use any three of the rounds listed in the lower 48 and never look back.

If you can't hunt or shoot what is the point?

countrygun
06-25-2012, 21:55
With their maximum effective bullet grain weight in each caliber respectively. I'm talking at a range that can be "shot at". There's little difference to me in what's considered "effective" and the cloudy distance somewhere beyond that where the bullet throws on it's reverse rockets becomes your cuddly buddy.

I'm less worried about maiming an animal than I am about said animal destroying property. I'm not going off on you guys in particular, but I hear a lot of talk about how "i would never consider shooting an animal at that range". My goodness, if you're worried about injuring an animal, you shouldn't hunt. No matter how good a hunter, sooner or later it will happen that you make a bad shot and leave an animal to suffer.

I guess the range I'm talking about it what can be done without terrible bullet drop.


Sorry Dude, you just got on the wrong side of me in several ways.

A hunter does everything he can to minimize the chances of a less than clean kill and that includes staying within his own capabilities and "*&^%" what the round is capable of.

If that is meaningless to you then don't expect advice from some of us on how to go about being a greenhorn wounding animals at silly distances.

The fact that you are asking this question reveals that you do not have a whole bunch of experience. It is a pretty basic thing that one picks up on quickly with that experience. This means that you do not have field experience which is not something you can "buy" with the right cartridge. Some of us have put years into hunting and shooting and I am willing to bet you could hand some around here just about any decent centerfire from a 30-30 on up and expect success. None of us just went out, bought a rifle and a scope and a box of ammo and just flopped down and started dropping game at ridiculous distances.

I don't think you stand a ghost of a chance at hitting anything if you had to ask a question in the manner you did, but I'll not help you wound anything all the same.

K.Kiser
06-25-2012, 22:06
My Dad 's favorite hnting rifle to build is a .308 due to it's ease in supreme accuracy with some experience and crafty handloads... With that said he has built a ton of other stuff from the 6mm's to 375 cheytac and 416 remingtons, but he seems to always gravitate back to the ugly little .308... He regularly drops full grown wild hogs at 400+ yards and some considerably farther... Yes, the other calibers will do but the .308 still does it cleanly and a lot of this is due to his acute experience as to where the bullet will be at those distances...

I was asking him about this type hunting several years back... I asked "what's the difference out there in the 300 ultra mag and the .308 ?" and his response was "the recoil"... Essentially when you know where to hold and develop the talent to do so, the end result is the same...

Get back down to normal hunting distances, and the result between the three calibers mentioned will be only discernable during a campfire bravado session...

Berto
06-25-2012, 22:07
It works out to about <--------------------------> this much.

K.Kiser
06-25-2012, 22:10
It works out to about <--------------------------> this much.

Thats about 2.5" on my monitor, but I was only prepared to accept 2.375"... Thanks for nothing...

Berto
06-25-2012, 22:12
Downsize the page and you're golden.:wavey:

glockbanger
06-25-2012, 22:17
Sorry Dude, you just got on the wrong side of me in several ways.

A hunter does everything he can to minimize the chances of a less than clean kill and that includes staying within his own capabilities and "*&^%" what the round is capable of.

If that is meaningless to you then don't expect advice from some of us on how to go about being a greenhorn wounding animals at silly distances.

The fact that you are asking this question reveals that you do not have a whole bunch of experience. It is a pretty basic thing that one picks up on quickly with that experience. This means that you do not have field experience which is not something you can "buy" with the right cartridge. Some of us have put years into hunting and shooting and I am willing to bet you could hand some around here just about any decent centerfire from a 30-30 on up and expect success. None of us just went out, bought a rifle and a scope and a box of ammo and just flopped down and started dropping game at ridiculous distances.

I don't think you stand a ghost of a chance at hitting anything if you had to ask a question in the manner you did, but I'll not help you wound anything all the same.

You'd not helped anything initially, didn't expect much. Odds are, I'm not going to be doing any extremely long range hunting, but if I see an animal on my farm that is going to cost me money, I'm going to shoot at it. My farm does not lend itself to many extreme range shots. I don't take pride in hunting, never "hunted" anything in my life, and I doubt I'll ever take pride in using a tool to take a defenseless animal's life. I spotlight legally to protect my farm from damage. It's fun, but not challenging, but then again, neither is what you might call "real hunting"

faawrenchbndr
06-25-2012, 22:42
You are over thinking this,........all three are great calibers.
All will get the job done. I prefer .308 Win of the three

glockbanger
06-25-2012, 22:46
You are over thinking this,........all three are great calibers.
All will get the job done. I prefer .308 Win of the three

Tell me about it... :wow: It's my first rifle. I've had family guns before, but never one of my own.

glockbanger
06-25-2012, 22:59
Chuck Hawk's reports that a .270(.277) 150 grain has SD of .279, compared to a .308/30-06 180 grain with SD of .271. I think most of the shooting and hunting I will be doing will be with a 150 grain bullet. I really like shooting low recoil stuff and 180 is certainly a little much for me. May go up to 165 but I doubt beyond that. On a side note, the .308/30-06 200 and 220 grain bullets have very impressive SDs of .301 and .331.

Danny Reid pointed out to me that a 308/30-06 150 grain bullet has an SD of only .226.

In 150 grain bullets, this is a big diff in SD from .279 to only .226. So it seems the .270 is much better suited to shoot this particular bullet weight. I've heard that the .280 caliber also has some very favorable SD, but it's not something I'm considering.


I'm looking to buy either a 308, 30-06, or 270 in the same model rifle. And I plan on shooting bullets that won't kill me with recoil. It seems like it'll be a 308 shooting165g 2800fps SD .248 BC .435 or a 270 shooting 150g 2850fps .278 SD .481 BC. Which two bullets do you prefer here for knock down power? In this comparison, keep in mind that all three barrels come in 22".
This is where I got my info.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

faawrenchbndr
06-26-2012, 06:08
My choice is .308 Win........

ithaca_deerslayer
06-26-2012, 06:41
I spotlight legally to protect my farm from damage. It's fun, but not challenging, but then again, neither is what you might call "real hunting"
I find deer hunting extremely challenging. They come out at night, but I cannot legally hunt at night, nor use a spotlight.

When I don't have a permit to take does, I see plenty of doe. Don't see a lot of bucks except during archery season at 40 yards and my range is 30 yards. I've turned down more bad shots than I've ever taken.

Gun season gives me good odds on opening day, but if that buck decides to take a different trail, then the odds go way down the rest of the season. I've put in 4 hours at 10 degrees, sitting still, and only seen blue jays. Quality time for sure, but no deer.

I seen bucks tease me at 150 yards through woods, the slightest glimpse of white and movement close to dusk. That last 30 minutes spent peering through trees, rifle held up at the ready until arms ache, last light fast fading, antlers disappearing as the doe gives a solid look through trees.

I get the sense you don't have any respect for hunting. Even with pest control, I try to make humane one shot kills. The same ethic from rats to woodchucks to deer.

Anyway, if shooting small animals, a .204 Ruger is flat shooting with low recoil. Or if the occasional larger animal, try a .243. Again, low recoil. For economy and lots of target shooting, a .223 is a great choice. Those latter two with same trajectory as the .308 and .30-06 type rifles, and easier to learn to shoot because of the difference in recoil.

stopatrain
06-26-2012, 06:50
Yes .308

USCgrad
06-26-2012, 06:53
.270 wsm on deer sized animals and below...its my coyote or badger caliber of choice. its a much flatter shooting round then say a .308 and drops them where they stand....

glockbanger
06-26-2012, 07:38
I find deer hunting extremely challenging. They come out at night, but I cannot legally hunt at night, nor use a spotlight.

When I don't have a permit to take does, I see plenty of doe. Don't see a lot of bucks except during archery season at 40 yards and my range is 30 yards. I've turned down more bad shots than I've ever taken.

Gun season gives me good odds on opening day, but if that buck decides to take a different trail, then the odds go way down the rest of the season. I've put in 4 hours at 10 degrees, sitting still, and only seen blue jays. Quality time for sure, but no deer.

I seen bucks tease me at 150 yards through woods, the slightest glimpse of white and movement close to dusk. That last 30 minutes spent peering through trees, rifle held up at the ready until arms ache, last light fast fading, antlers disappearing as the doe gives a solid look through trees.

I get the sense you don't have any respect for hunting. Even with pest control, I try to make humane one shot kills. The same ethic from rats to woodchucks to deer.

Anyway, if shooting small animals, a .204 Ruger is flat shooting with low recoil. Or if the occasional larger animal, try a .243. Again, low recoil. For economy and lots of target shooting, a .223 is a great choice. Those latter two with same trajectory as the .308 and .30-06 type rifles, and easier to learn to shoot because of the difference in recoil.

In my defense I will say that I'm not going out popping of crazy round counts trying to hit just whatever. I'm not the greatest shot, so I hit what I can. I've always used a 30-06 for whitetail and even in the case of a bad shot, they usually don't go far. I do have compassion for a dying animal and often execute one in the head after the initial shot if needed. But when it comes down to it, we're still shooting it, that's all i'm saying.

faawrenchbndr
06-26-2012, 07:48
.270 wsm on deer sized animals and below...its my coyote or badger caliber of choice. its a much flatter shooting round then say a .308 and drops them where they stand....

Very true,....but if the OP wants to hunt Elk in the future,
he will be rifle shopping .......again.

Buy unough gun,.......buy small, hunt small.
Buy big, adjust the cartridge & hunt big AND small!

glockbanger
06-26-2012, 07:54
Very true,....but if the OP wants to hunt Elk in the future,
he will be rifle shopping .......again.

Buy unough gun,.......buy small, hunt small.
Buy big, adjust the cartridge & hunt big AND small!

Good point, also, I'm sticking with these three calibers because they're easiest to find with best prices.

Wyoming
06-26-2012, 08:20
You guys ever hunted elk?

As I stated before IF you know how to hunt and IF you know how to shoot any of the three calibers asked about will work. IF you don't it doesn't matter what you will use because it can't make up for poor shoot placement or find you animals.

I shot an elk with a Winchester 100 carbine in 308 using 150 grain factory bullets. Dropped the spike bull in it's tracks. The reason I used this rifle and ammo was that it belonged to a very good friend that was like my big brother. He lived in Ohio were I am originally from. He died way too soon and never lived to come out here to hunt elk but his rifle and Puma knife did. The same rifle and ammo is four for four on antelope that I and my younger friend used.

BTW, bullets today are much better than what my friend used on the many whitetails in WV, MI and PA.

Now that rifle and knife are very dear to me and are "safely stored".

glockbanger
06-26-2012, 08:50
What is maximum effective, and maximum range for a 270 130 grain? and what kind of velocity are we talking?

Do bullets with higher BC and SD always have greater bullet drop simple due to the fact they are heavier and are pushing the envelope of waht any said cartridge can do?

ithaca_deerslayer
06-26-2012, 09:00
I've always used a 30-06 for whitetail and even in the case of a bad shot, they usually don't go far.

Ok, then if you switch to either of the other two, I don't think much will change in your shots and distances.

You mentioned recoil. If you get a slightly heavier gun than whatever you have been using, and get it in .308, then you will likely notice a nice reduction in recoil.

For example, just because it is what I have, you could get a .308 Savage 10FP with a 24" bull barrel. As long as you are not humping up and down hills all day long, you will enjoy shooting that gun much more than a light sporter in .30-06. Makes sitting at the bench and working on accuracy fun :)

But if you are on the move a lot, then get a lighter gun, and still in .308 :) Something like a Remington model 7 is lighter and more compact than the average sporter. The recoil in that does not bother me, but I set my wife up with 125gr Remington reduced recoil loads for her to use. Those loads still have more velocity than an AK 47.

My point is, there is a lot you can do with a .308. Same is also true, of course, with the other calibers you are considering.

Berto
06-26-2012, 14:09
Given more information about your wants and concerns, the .308 is a good choice;

It tends to be lighter on recoil, other stuff being equal.
It comes in a short action, allowing a more compact for bbl length gun (if that matters)
A very wide range of loads from high BC long range stuff to ligher weight and reduced recoil options.
Ammo also can be less expensive given its NATO use and availability of surplus. (yes I know they are slightly different).
The 270 can offer flatter shooting and the 06 more efficiency with heavy bullets, but the .308 is a solid all-rounder and will handle anything in the lower 48.

USCgrad
06-26-2012, 17:12
Very true,....but if the OP wants to hunt Elk in the future,
he will be rifle shopping .......again.

Buy unough gun,.......buy small, hunt small.
Buy big, adjust the cartridge & hunt big AND small!

its a catch 22, plenty of people in Idaho use .270 to hunt elk, the question is, do i want to take a shot on an elk 400 plus yards away using a .270? for me,nope but then again, i have seen .300 magnums (weatherby-wsm) and 7mm mags not take down an elk right away either..so its really hard to say....

Aceman
06-26-2012, 17:45
You guys ever hunted elk?

As I stated before IF you know how to hunt and IF you know how to shoot any of the three calibers asked about will work. IF you don't it doesn't matter what you will use because it can't make up for poor shoot placement or find you animals.

I shot an elk with a Winchester 100 carbine in 308 using 150 grain factory bullets. Dropped the spike bull in it's tracks. The reason I used this rifle and ammo was that it belonged to a very good friend that was like my big brother. He lived in Ohio were I am originally from. He died way too soon and never lived to come out here to hunt elk but his rifle and Puma knife did. The same rifle and ammo is four for four on antelope that I and my younger friend used.

BTW, bullets today are much better than what my friend used on the many whitetails in WV, MI and PA.

Now that rifle and knife are very dear to me and are "safely stored".

Pappy took a big one down with his favorite 270. Had nothing to do with the round - had EVERYTHING to do with him knowing the gun and the round. (Mountains in Wyoming).

collim1
06-26-2012, 18:04
One big disadvantage of the .270 is the lack of less expensive range only FMJ target ammo.

RottnJP
06-26-2012, 23:33
Are you just talking deer and smaller? If so, for a newer shooter, I might suggest .270. Good, solid, choice for deer, and a little flatter-shooting.

But, .308 has no problem with elk with the right ammo. (The big ol' kudu over my door took a 180gr trophy bonded bear claw through the shoulders and didn't get more than 10 yards or so, and that was a smidge over 300 yards.) If you're doing your shooting within 300 yards, the practical difference in drop is insignificant, and .308 gives you more choices & commonality in ammo, so would also a great choice.

.30-06 is an even better cartridge for elk & up, but requires a longer receiver (more weight in the rifle) and is also fine for deer if you don't mind the weight penalty for the longer receiver.

So in summation. Don't over-think it. (This is coming from an engineer, and we know over-thinking.) They're all fine choices, with slight differences in "optimization" of the role. You're talking about three of the most popular rifle cartridges in North America... You won't go wrong with any of them, unless you plan on shooting elk and moose. Then I would take .270 off the table.

Wyoming
06-26-2012, 23:34
Pappy took a big one down with his favorite 270. Had nothing to do with the round - had EVERYTHING to do with him knowing the gun and the round. (Mountains in Wyoming).

Exactly! Your Pappy knew how to hunt.

I knew a Montana rancher for years used a 300 Savage. One shot one elk. He later started using his 22-250 and had the same results till he was too old to hunt.

Before half of you yell at me for recommending the 22-250 for hunting elk and the other half head for the hills with their 22-250 to hunt elk, Cliff knew when to NOT shoot an elk with his 22-250. Since he was "feeding them" in his back yard he could pick and choose his shots.

AK_Stick
06-27-2012, 00:07
I'm less worried about maiming an animal than I am about said animal destroying property. I'm not going off on you guys in particular, but I hear a lot of talk about how "i would never consider shooting an animal at that range". My goodness, if you're worried about injuring an animal, you shouldn't hunt. No matter how good a hunter, sooner or later it will happen that you make a bad shot and leave an animal to suffer.

I guess the range I'm talking about it what can be done without terrible bullet drop.


Firstly, its mostly the part of the shooter. All 3 of those are fairly ballistically similar, though the 270 will suffer the most as range starts to increase.


That said, you shouldn't be shooting futher than your abilities allow you to make a clean, humane kill.


I have no problem killing, but I don't want an animal to suffer because I made a bad shot.

I don't know where you get the whole "no matter how good a shot eventually you'll leave an animal to suffer" bit came from either. I've been hunting a long time, and I've yet to hit an animal with a non fatal wound. And thats including a 500~ish yard and a 300~ish yard shot last season.


Its more about the indian than the arrow. I dropped my caribou with a 338 win mag, that isn't exactly known for its terrific down range ballistic trajectory at somewhere in the ball park of 500~ yards. And head shot a moose at 297 yds, at a 15* angle down hill.

Pick one, learn to shoot it well, and hunt the hell out of it.

AK_Stick
06-27-2012, 00:08
Pappy took a big one down with his favorite 270. Had nothing to do with the round - had EVERYTHING to do with him knowing the gun and the round. (Mountains in Wyoming).

Similarly, my father hunted every legal big game animal in the US with a 44 lever gun and a 7mm bolt gun.


From buffalo, musk ox, and grizzly, to white tail and antelope. Watching him with those guns, is like an extension of himself.