Welcome to America: Dearborn, Michigan [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Morris
06-27-2012, 10:31
Not a usual Beck fan but this video caught my attention. And yeah, you go into a festival to stir up stuff, stuff will get stirred up.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/allahu-akbar-shock-video-shows-muslims-allegedly-stoning-christian-protesters-in-michigan/

Lord and allah, what a freaking mess. Will the ACLU get involved?

Hack
06-27-2012, 11:33
I try to remain objective. But, this is difficult. People who claim to be part of the religion of peace, (Islam/Muslim), are doing the trash and stone throwing. Over people holding up signs concerning what they believe, of all things. They are not even being preached at, for the most part from what I heard in the video, (although I am only seeing what is shown). Even if they were saying something, since when has street preaching become illegal in the USA? (Keep in mind that this Christian group has already won one court case against City of Dearborn concerning the prohibitions concerning free speech that they were trying to enforce).

I know it is not without its risks. But, the Bible, especially the Gospels, and the rest of what is called the New Testament writings does not teach avoiding risk taking altogether. It does of course teach to obey the law, (as in Romans 13), but in balance it also teaches to teach the Gospel message even though people in authority may try to prohibit it.

I think this is an interesting subject, on how to act as people of the Book, (the Bible), and on how to act as LE authority in an appropriate and professional manner. And, most likely there is no way to cover every bit of this in one thread.

We talk about articulation of reports, proper reporting of facts, and so on, and not adding to the facts. An interesting subject; perhaps a troubling subject.

gasboffer
06-27-2012, 12:44
"Take them and kill them wherever you find them. (non-believers) Against such we have given you clear warrant." Koran..4:91.

"Religion of Peace.".... my butt!!!!

dpadams6
06-27-2012, 18:49
I'm speechless.

Sharkey
06-27-2012, 19:49
Instead of playing rock, paper, scissors, we could play rock, 9mm, 5.56? :whistling:

Doesn't take much to start a revolution these days, ask Egypt.

Mrs.Cicero
06-27-2012, 20:09
It does not thrill me to live in the same state as Dearbornistan, let me tell you.

Mrs.Cicero

m2hmghb
06-27-2012, 21:23
Things like that make me wish for UAVs fitted with CS/CN or capsicum sprays.

HoldHard
06-28-2012, 08:38
It does not thrill me to live in the same state as Dearbornistan, let me tell you.

Mrs.CiceroMe either....

HH

glockandme
06-28-2012, 08:50
Crowd of Savages. Welcome to America!

Unistat
06-28-2012, 17:34
EDIT: From the Detroit Free Press. (http://www.freep.com/article/20120616/NEWS05/120616015/Christian-missionaries-with-pig-s-head-taunt-Arab-Americans-at-Dearborn-festival) I watched more of the video after I typed the below. That still is correct as far as I'm concerned, but I will add something. I remember this event. I saw more complete video at the time. You can read the article above. The "Christian" group in question was not merely witnessing to the people at the festival. They were being downright offensive and not the Offense of the Gospel and the Cross. Racist comments have no place in Witnessing for Christ. They were deliberately inciting the crowd.

I will leave it to you to decide if it is more effective to win people to Christ with Love or hate, but I doubt causing little children to cry is going to do much to advance the Kingdom. As an Evangelical Christian, I find their tactics counter productive, embarrassing, and not at all Christ-like. It's the Westboro school of though all the way. This group was not interested in saving souls, only in driving out unbelievers. END EDIT

I have lived here my whole life and my interactions with local Arabs have been like my interactions with all other people. Some are jerks, some are cool, and most are indifferent.

I know some folks that have gone to the festival to do missions work and rocks were not thrown at them. Dirty looks and the occasional mean comment, yes, but not outright violence. I would guess that the group from the video said or did something (maybe without knowing) to "step in it," as it were. See Edit.

There is a cultural divide, no question. With a little experience and knowledge you can learn to negotiate it pretty well, mostly by avoiding certain topics. At other times, when it is unavoidable, I've found it handy to recall that Arab culture has much in common with other Mediterranean cultures. Since I grew up around a lot of Italians (I are one) I remember some of the old school folks and it helps. By the way, I've not noticed a ton of difference in the Christian Arabs (Chaldeans and what not) vs. the Muslim Arabs (Traditional, liberal and what not.) Mostly it's about what topic is taboo.

Taking all that into account and when you enter a situation like the festival where you as a non-Arab are the minority, you will definitely feel the cultural divide more acutely. I would even go so far as to say that you had best be on your toes because a perceived infraction may invoke a (to mainstream U.S. culture) disproportionate response.

To put it another way: If you do not have a map of the minefield you will be blown up. (See? That statement right there is fraught with cultural implications that mean nothing to most of us, but will illicit negative response from some Arabs.)

I do sympathize for Dearborn PD. It's a no-win situation for them.

They can:

A. Intervene.
--1. Be accused of racism.
--2. Be accused of trampling 1st Amendment rights.
B. Avoid the situation and watch a riot start in their city,

"B" is not really an option. Probably if they do the job right it will be BOTH "A.1" & "A.2"

As for living in, near, or around Dearborn, one thing that can be counted on in a crisis (such as riots in Detroit) is that Dearborn will turn inward first and protect what they have there. In my experience the tribal/very-extended-family relationships will be the fallback position. A known quantity, if you will.

Since this is CopTalk, I'll add that stupid knows no cultural bounds. Arab prisoners are little different from any other. The main difference is that we have Tyvek hoodies for the ladies who insist on a Hijab and if they want to keep halal they can get a couple of danishes instead of cheeseburgers for lunch.

Morris
06-28-2012, 18:40
Tyvek hoodies? If you are under arrest, all head dresses come off.

All.

Sue me later but I will be damned if something uses the oft trod excuse of religion to keep themselves from being searched and headgear/concealment being taken away.

Unistat
06-28-2012, 19:39
Tyvek hoodies? If you are under arrest, all head dresses come off.

All.

Sue me later but I will be damned if something uses the oft trod excuse of religion to keep themselves from being searched and headgear/concealment being taken away.

Oh no, the headress comes off and they get photo'd & searched same as everyone else. Afterwards, they get a white Tyvek hoodie to go with the orange jumpsuits. No personal clothing in the cells, save underwear.

The Tyvek looks like a cross between a klan hood and a spit mask to be honest. We actually got them from Dearborn PD :)

Morris
06-28-2012, 20:37
Ahh, I know what you are talking about now.

Problem is, groups like CAIR would scream holy hell just because we are doing our jobs, not that the person committed the crime.