Texas man gets 40 years in Stand Your Ground [Archive] - Glock Talk

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beatcop
06-27-2012, 18:36
Shooter was angry about noise from birthday party at his neighbor's home


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47986039


Ok, for all those that weighed in on the original post....stick a fork in 'em, he's done!

Probably a few lessons to be learned.

faawrenchbndr
06-27-2012, 18:41
He got what he deserved. Hard to "stand your ground" in your
neighbor's driveway!

Glockdude1
06-27-2012, 18:50
I hope he does every day of that 40 years!!

:cool:

rilkil23
06-27-2012, 18:51
So being an idiot with a gun WILL land you in prison..... Amazing.

PAGunner
06-27-2012, 19:17
I don't like how the PMSNBC story attempts to tie it to Zimmerman, totally different circumstances. With that said, I opined originally it looked like a bad shoot, so I'm not surprised even a little with this verdict.

40 years sounds about right. Everybody has been upset with neighbors and loud music at some point, doesn't give you the right to go over there and become aggressive. The retired firefighter probably isn't a "bad" guy per se, but he sure as hell made a dumb decision that he needs to pay the price for.

Deaf Smith
06-27-2012, 20:16
Just because one CLAIMS they are covered by SYG law does not make it so, as this gent shows.

He told people about ways to fake it, he video taped his egging them on, and he went ahead and pushed an argument till it required lethal force.

I'm just sorry the poor woman lost her husband to this nutjob. And also the wife of this guy, she lost to (and gets stuck with the legal bills.)

Deaf

beatcop
06-27-2012, 20:41
What gets lost here is common sense.

Often times someone will quote statute law and say "I can do x, y, & z". Yeah, great stand your ground...however if the facts are not as you perceived, you're toast. My advice is as follows:

-Don't shoot unless you HAVE too! If you can leave, do so!
-Don't shoot someone over property. It can be replaced, they can be caught by the PD.
-If the crime is not a violent felony, you probably don't need to fire.
-Don't shoot someone over a fair fight.
-Be legally and morally right...not just legally.

Yes, there are lots of variables we can get into and we can write a page on each comment, but when you boil it down, do you really want to risk your life, house, family, job, over "optional" behavior? If you have NO choice, defend human life.

G22Dude
06-27-2012, 20:42
Its idiotic to claim I am in fear for my life and video tape the issue as you cause threat to escalate. Maybe a tactical withdrawal is called for if you are so fearful. Having the right to stand your ground is not the same as causing a messy situation to escalate

PimpStick
06-27-2012, 20:44
Texas' version of a Stand Your Ground law is known as the Castle Doctrine. It was revised in 2007 to expand the right to use deadly force. The new version allows people to defend themselves in their homes, workplaces or vehicles. It also says a person using force cannot provoke the attacker or be involved in criminal activity at the time.

That's exactly what he did. Had they attacked as soon as he went there or before he brandished his 23, he'd be a free man, and probably not even charged.

PimpStick
06-27-2012, 20:44
Its idiotic to claim I am in fear for my life and video tape the issue as you cause threat to escalate. Maybe a tactical withdrawal is called for if you are so fearful. Having the right to stand your ground is not the same as causing a messy situation to escalate

Well said.

jhmayhem
06-27-2012, 20:58
Not so ironically it sounds like the neighbor who was killed would have been the one justified in using the Stand Your Ground law if he had a chance to defend himself. A hostile individual comes onto your property uninvited making threats with a weapon would have sounded like a good shoot to me if it was the other way around.

vikingsoftpaw
06-27-2012, 21:11
I am a supporter of the 'Stand Your Ground' concept, but that doesn't mean one should 'Bulldoze over Your Neighboor's Ground'.

Wannabe Zimmerman's and assorted Mall Ninjas take note...

RenegadeGlocker
06-27-2012, 21:14
Not Stand Your Ground.

If it was, he would have been found innocent in a directed verdict.

Drain You
06-27-2012, 21:17
I think they should dig the dead guy up and charge him with assault.

Glockdude1
06-27-2012, 21:25
I think they should dig the dead guy up and charge him with assault.

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd321/mymojo34/popup.jpg

Goldendog Redux
06-27-2012, 21:28
I would probably feel better about the case if the guy just walked up and executed the victim rather than standing there like a friggin retard creating a situation and chirping all the key phrases he most likely learned on gun boards and stupid gun rags.

A little bit of knowledge and not having the mental capacity or common sense to arrange it in a meaningful manner is very, very dangerous and that dipsiht is gonna rot in jail because he is stupid...and rightfully so.

PimpStick
06-27-2012, 22:44
Does everyone agree that it's "this guy" who gives us all a bad name?

From GOA:

* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day. This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.

The media rarely reports on these situations.

Gunnut 45/454
06-27-2012, 23:56
beatcop

-Don't shoot unless you HAVE too! If you can leave, do so! ( In this case -he provoked the shooting He should have asked them to turn it down once then call the cops)

-Don't shoot someone over property. It can be replaced, they can be caught by the PD.( You obviously live in state that will prosecute you for defending your property= I'm so glad I don't)

-If the crime is not a violent felony, you probably don't need to fire. ( My states law says I can use deadly force to stop ANY FELONY)

-Don't shoot someone over a fair fight. (And when have you seen one of these lately?)
-Be legally and morally right...not just legally. ( I'll let God sort this one out):supergrin:

beatcop
06-28-2012, 06:40
beatcop

-Don't shoot unless you HAVE too! If you can leave, do so! ( In this case -he provoked the shooting He should have asked them to turn it down once then call the cops)

-Don't shoot someone over property. It can be replaced, they can be caught by the PD.( You obviously live in state that will prosecute you for defending your property= I'm so glad I don't)

-If the crime is not a violent felony, you probably don't need to fire. ( My states law says I can use deadly force to stop ANY FELONY)

-Don't shoot someone over a fair fight. (And when have you seen one of these lately?)
-Be legally and morally right...not just legally. ( I'll let God sort this one out):supergrin:

Like I said, the "BIG PICTURE" not the letter of the law.

-my State you can use force to retain,regain property...not deadly force. You have to ask yourself if you are going to kill someone over them siphoning your gas, stealing your pink flamingo. Don't kill anyone over minor bs.

-like I said, you can write a page on each bullet, but it gets old trying to talk sense into posters with a limited grasp of the law/criminal justice system or misguided judgment.

-some may think they're going to shoot when someone raises a fist, go for it....may not work out well. Bottom line is that offender/subject factors (disparity of force, size, age, sickness, physical prowess, expressed intent) need to be quite clear and articulated precisely to avoid prosecution in some areas.

-If you're in public and can leave, do so!

SouthpawG26
06-28-2012, 06:42
The disturbing aspect is that this guy clearly left his home and taking his camera along, with the eventual outcome in mind.

He went there looking for a fight, and specifically, for an excuse to shoot someone. Premeditation.

His stupidity (and the premeditation) shows in repeatedly spouting off some half baked, uninformed SYG "lingo".

Bren
06-28-2012, 07:49
The real question is: Now that Raul is doing 40 years in prison, which GT member won't be posting any more?

noway
06-28-2012, 10:38
Will, it better to be judge by 12 or is it ? :tongueout:

Yeah he did use much common sense in that encounter. 1st rule of winning a gun fight, is NOT to get into one to begin with.

DScottHewitt
06-28-2012, 11:48
Shooter was angry about noise from birthday party at his neighbor's home


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47986039


Ok, for all those that weighed in on the original post....stick a fork in 'em, he's done!

Probably a few lessons to be learned.

He got what he deserved. Hard to "stand your ground" in your
neighbor's driveway!

He was Standing Their Ground......



And he is a froot loop of the most circular order.

bear62
06-28-2012, 12:09
The guy's an idiot. And he should have gotten an extra 10 years for shooting a dog .....

Breadman03
06-28-2012, 12:56
From the video clip I saw, he deserved it.

Blackshirts
06-28-2012, 13:11
He will be standing his ground...and touching his toes.

cowboywannabe
06-28-2012, 13:37
title is misleading as he didnt stand his ground, he stood on the victim's ground.

crazi_e
06-28-2012, 20:07
He definitely deserved it

Tx-SIG229
06-28-2012, 21:09
how does one "stand their ground" when they're the one who not only started it, but escalated it?

Darkangel1846
07-01-2012, 11:46
While I don't blame the guy for CCW over to the loud party, I do blame the guy for "standing his ground" and pulling his handgun. Going to a drunken party with loud music and a bunch of macho types is looking for trouble. In his recording he made way too much reference to feeling threatened and standing his ground. He made it sound like he was planning the shooting by doing the video and saying what he did.
Now the guy did come after him, but it looked like he set the guy up. Remember your judged by how everyone precieves your act not so much if you are right or not.

kahrcarrier
07-01-2012, 15:29
Instead of reporting the good facets of these type of laws, the media will be using this incident as more grist for their "I told you this Stand your Ground stuff is BAD" mill.

10-32
07-01-2012, 15:41
I'm sorry those people got shot/killed over a simple noise complaint. Nobody needs to be shot because someone else is simply annoyed or inconvenienced. There's just no need for it.

I'm also sorry the shooter got 40 years. It should have been more IMO

steveksux
07-01-2012, 16:33
Is a jail cell in Texas considered an extension of your home? Wondering if he can claim "kneel your ground" while in prison?

If he's incarcerated/cohabitating with the same cellmate for more than 7 years, are they considered common law married and some sexual favors are therefore to be expected? :whistling:

He kind of illustrates the problems with those eager to shoot at the first legal opportunity rather than as a last resort. He went in sure he knew the law, took a camera to document his "innocence", recited all the elements he felt were needed to invoke "stand your ground". His only mistakes were in fact he did NOT know the law, and he was looking for an excuse to shoot someone instead of looking for a way to avoid shooting someone. That is a very dangerous combination.

He may be able to add 2 and 2 and come up with 4, but he cannot put 2 and 2 together.

Randy

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 20:16
beatcop

-Don't shoot unless you HAVE too! If you can leave, do so! ( In this case -he provoked the shooting He should have asked them to turn it down once then call the cops)

-Don't shoot someone over property. It can be replaced, they can be caught by the PD.( You obviously live in state that will prosecute you for defending your property= I'm so glad I don't)

-If the crime is not a violent felony, you probably don't need to fire. ( My states law says I can use deadly force to stop ANY FELONY)

-Don't shoot someone over a fair fight. (And when have you seen one of these lately?)
-Be legally and morally right...not just legally. ( I'll let God sort this one out):supergrin:



The best possible shoot, is the one where you never had a need to draw. I can use lethal force in this state to protect any tangible property. But the deductible on my truck is cheaper than the trip to the grand jury.

DScottHewitt
07-03-2012, 10:52
From the video clip I saw, he deserved it.

Which is video HE took. If you saw the video from that night, I mean......

DScottHewitt
07-03-2012, 10:55
While I don't blame the guy for CCW over to the loud party, I do blame the guy for "standing his ground" and pulling his handgun. Going to a drunken party with loud music and a bunch of macho types is looking for trouble. In his recording he made way too much reference to feeling threatened and standing his ground. He made it sound like he was planning the shooting by doing the video and saying what he did.
Now the guy did come after him, but it looked like he set the guy up. Remember your judged by how everyone precieves your act not so much if you are right or not.



That first sentence is where you and many of us disagree. If he felt it was that dangerous to talk to a neighbor about turning a radio down, he should have stayed safe and secure at home, and called the police.


I know. "The police are overworked". I agree. BUT, if you feel that you need a gun to talk to your neighbor, let the people paid to carry them go talk to him for you.