The ANTI-Conspiracy Nut, or Kook, or Fool... so you say? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Peace Warrior
06-27-2012, 21:07
So you're an anti-conspiracy nut!!!

But:

It's not because you believe that oswald was the only shooter.

It's not because you believe that there is no such organization as Bildeberger's.

It's not because you believe that there is no such organization as the CFR.

It's not because you believe that only 19 terrorists brought down 1, 2, & 7 WTC skyscrapers on 09-11-2001.

It's not because you believe that climate change is real and the world is heating up at an alarming rate.


Oh no, in fact, one reason you're an anti-conspiracy nut is because you are too wise, or too smart, or too intelligent or just plain too much yourself to ever get past your own cognitive dissonance on certain matters.

Another reason you're an anti-conspiracy nut is because your own, personal opinion of someone tends to lead you to disbelieve anything they might support or put forth on a controversial issue. ETA: Your opinion of another may be due to adopting the opinion of the herd before you got to know that person for yourself.

However, the primary, number one reason you're an anti-conspiracy nut is because you cannot handle the ridicule of yourself or your opinions on what are known as controversial matters. Your perception of "their normal" is invaluable to you as far as the way others see or think of you.

Even if the crowd is wrong, or they have a weak foundation for their beliefs, and even if you know this deep down, you still can't handle not being an accepted member of those you admire, respect, or desire to be part of their group. You have to be part of what you perceive to be the "in crowd." You cannot live outside of the approval of those around you and being accepted as part of their herd. So, instead of rationally and logically thinking things out for yourself, you default to the herd mentality and eschew anything the herd doesn't approve of readily.

This is what makes you an anti-conspiracy nut and kook. You're wrong, but you have what you need the most, which is the approval of the crowd.

countrygun
06-27-2012, 21:27
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/flouride.png

countrygun
06-27-2012, 22:29
It's not because you believe that oswald was the only

shooter

Yes,yes it is, I have the Carcano that my dad put in my hands when I was a smart alec teenager quoting "conspiracy theories" I was able to prove to myself that it was well within Oswald and the rifles capabilities. Before Occam's razor was ever explained to me I realized the Conspiracy theorists were making mountains out of molehills.

It's not because you believe that there is no such organization

as Bildeberger's It's not because you believe that there is no such

organization as the CFR.

why is it, when asked to PROVE these organizations exist and are as claimed, the answer is always "There secret and you can't so that proves they are a secret organization and they exist. If you could prove it, they wouldn't be secret"?

It's not because you believe that only 19

terrorists brought down 1, 2, & 7 WTC skyscrapers on 09-11-2001

Again, ye, yes it is. it is because I don't believe Rosie O'Donnels crackpot theories. I have melted steel with fire despite her expert opinion that it can't be done.

I also have a bit of personal experience which makes me sure that is exactly what happened.

not because you believe that climate change is real and the world is heating up

at an alarming rate

Once more, yes, yes it is because I think "climate change" is a farce based on the data supplied by the theorists them selves. there is nothing alarming and there is NOTHING that hasn't happened BEFORE man walked upright. It is merely a part of the ebb and flow of the planet, it's normal cycle. Those wishing to blame man for it are over aggrandizing man's effect on the planet for political reasons.

 

There ARE plans, crafted trends, influences on society and certain social engineering trends in schools for instance, that I do think exist. I also think much of it is due to to making the lowest standard of intellectual performance "acceptable" as part of the trend.

When I hear people talk about "conspiracies and how they are so smart because they "know" all this. I see a social misfit, probably in Mom's basement with no significant acheivements in their little life, looking for a belief in something that justifies their lack of accomplishment and makes them feel "special" nonetheless.

They didn't get a pony for their ninth birthday and the Tri-lateral comission was behind their disappointent.

 

Peace Warrior
06-28-2012, 05:38
It's not because you believe that oswald was the only shooter

Yes,yes it is, I have the Carcano that my dad put in my hands when I was a smart alec teenager quoting "conspiracy theories" I was able to prove to myself that it was well within Oswald and the rifles capabilities. Before Occam's razor was ever explained to me I realized the Conspiracy theorists were making mountains out of molehills.
...
What do you do with all the evidence concerning the President's convertible being shot up? Namely, it is undisputed that there is a 'through-and-through' bullet hole in the windshield and a dent caused by a bullet in the windshield's "top rail" part of the frame.

In deference to the warren commission's findings, how do you explain, just these two additional shots, inside of the warren commission final report? Keep in mind that photos and or film from the day of the shooting prove they exist.

What say you? Will you at least admit 5 shots now?

Peace Warrior
06-28-2012, 05:49
...It's not because you believe that there is no such organization as Bildeberger's. ... It's not because you believe that there is no such organization as the CFR. ...

...why is it, when asked to PROVE these organizations exist and are as claimed, the answer is always "There secret and you can't so that proves they are a secret organization and they exist. If you could prove it, they wouldn't be secret"?
...
I guess the why you inquire about is because you've never asked someone that has half a brain.

As far as Bildeberger: The moniker, Bildeberger, was derived from the name of the hotel where they had there first meeting (the public known about) ca. Spring of 1954.

Simply google: The Bilderberg Club or Bildeberger. it is no secret they exist. Only anti-conspiracy kooks believe they don't exist.
... It's not because you believe that there is no such organization as the CFR. ...

...why is it, when asked to PROVE these organizations exist and are as claimed, the answer is always "There secret and you can't so that proves they are a secret organization and they exist. If you could prove it, they wouldn't be secret"?...
The CFR, or formally, the council on foreign relations, is not a secret by no means. Heck, they have their own website! Link here. (http://www.cfr.org/) Only anti-conspiracy nuts believe they don't exist.

Peace Warrior
06-28-2012, 06:21
... It's not because you believe that only 19 terrorists brought down 1, 2, & 7 WTC skyscrapers on 09-11-2001. ...

...Again, ye, yes it is. it is because I don't believe Rosie O'Donnels crackpot theories. I have melted steel with fire despite her expert opinion that it can't be done.

I also have a bit of personal experience which makes me sure that is exactly what happened.
...
I'm not going to discuss ms. o'donnel's beliefs for two reasons. One, I do NOT know her personally. Two, even though I might believe she is right on this one, she is not an expert in the field of engineering, architecture, or aircraft. So let's leave her out of this one.

Now, moving beyond such selective, ad hominem rhetoric, I'd be grateful to hear about your "personal experience which makes [you] sure that [19 terrorists bringing down 1, 2, & 7 WTC skyscrapers on 09-11-2001] is exactly what happened."

As for me, I most often rely on the expertise of others who are qualified as experts in their respective fields as well as the eyewitness accounts, news reports, videos and or audio recordings (professional and amateur) all from the day of 9-11 itself.

After the fact, I'll also rely on the finding of qualified experts, such as those gathered together on the net at places like pilots for 9-11 truth (http://pilotsfor911truth.org/), and or architects and engineers for 9-11 truth. (http://www.ae911truth.org/en/home.html)

Simply put, only anti-conspiracy kooks think that 1, 2, & 7 WTC skyscrapers came down solely due to fires on 9-11.

Peace Warrior
06-28-2012, 06:28
... It's not because you believe that climate change is real and the world is heating up at an alarming rate. ...

...Once more, yes, yes it is because I think "climate change" is a farce based on the data supplied by the theorists them selves. there is nothing alarming and there is NOTHING that hasn't happened BEFORE man walked upright. It is merely a part of the ebb and flow of the planet, it's normal cycle. Those wishing to blame man for it are over aggrandizing man's effect on the planet for political reasons. ...
I see we are in 100% agreement on this one.

Even so, only anti-conspiracy kooks believe that global warming/climate change is caused by anthropogenic means and that this conclusion is backed up by actual science.

airmotive
06-28-2012, 08:43
You still mad about the British Empire?

countrygun
06-28-2012, 13:02
I see we are in 100% agreement on this one.

Even so, only anti-conspiracy kooks believe that global warming/climate change is caused by anthropogenic means and that this conclusion is backed up by actual science.


And how do these "eggspurts" explain the same sort of changes in Earth's climate BEFORE man and after his arrival before industrialization?

Several bits of my history come into play when it comes to 9/11

I was in construction and I also happen to be a blacksmith and knife maker today. I am well aware of the effects of heat on steel and of structural stresses. I am also aware of the incredibly complex "conspiracy" that would have to take place and how long in advance the planning would have to be in place for any other answer to be possible. To have put all of the planning in the hands of 19 cretinous fanatics in order for the plan to succeed is ridiculous. To epect it was done in complete secrecy without one single person actually coming forward and saying "Yes, I took part in placing the explosives (or what ever crackpot scheme you have in mind) is ludicrous. This from a Government who couldn't hide a blow job?

For the real meat of my direct experience with terrorism. Long before you ever heard of the word it was a serious issue. In 1984 I took part in an "anti-Terrorism" seminar at my University (Portland State) As both a student and a memeber of the Law Enforcement community. Among the participants was Dr. Manfred Schrieber who had been the Mayor of Munich Germany during the Olympics and the "Munich Massacre) he went on to become the equivilant of "Secretary of State) for West Germany. It was a rather high level operation and was partially sponsored by the (then) "LEAA". There were speakers and participants form over the Country and more than one Nation.

Here is where I realized that incompetence was going to lead to America's eventual victimization and was therefore not completely surprised by 9/11.

My "Group" of 5 students, some of them LEOs, put forth a well researched paper on the possibility of a terrorist attack in our area. Using what we had learned of the fundamentalist Muslim ideaology way back then in the early 80's, we posited that it was possible for a handful of fanatics to hijack a plane, west bound into PDX. The right flight would not have to deviate an appreciable amount for it's path to take it down the Columbia river with it's target being Bonneville Dam. The resulting impact would not only flood a large portion of industrial Portland (we used the VanPort flood as a "damage map") and would have flooded and perhaps destroyed the Trojan Nuclear Power Plant on the Columbia, but this would also cause a "cascade failure" of much of the power grid in the western US.

We of course put this forward as an example of just one weak spot in the Country.

For our efforts, we were patted on the head by the representatives of the US Government and told " That is a nice bit of imaginative thinking, but really, nobody is going to hijack a plane to crash it into a structure"

At that point I realized the power and danger of incompetence. I started making plans to quit my job, pile up lots of money and get the heck out of an urban environment. I succeeded. My very first words on 9/11 were, "they finally did it"

No it didn't take any "Conspiracy" at all. The damage is easily understood. The incompetence that allowed it to happen was present for years

Nothing mysterious to me.

And you Conspiracy buffs are nuttier than Squirrel ****.

Peace Warrior
06-28-2012, 13:49
You still mad about the British Empire?
Huh? Sorry, but I don't follow. :dunno:

ETA: Oh wait! The brit's empire thread, no, not mad at all, that thread was just being hijacked with other posters' interpersonal qualms.

There were some interesting points brought up, but on the wrong thread, so this is the thread AND THE FORUM for what the brit's empire thread devolved into. Besides, I've been asking the anti-conspiracy kooks to start a thread on each topic they'd bring up and they all were too scared to do it. So heck, I'll do it here.

Peace Warrior
06-28-2012, 14:04
And how do these "eggspurts" explain the same sort of changes in Earth's climate BEFORE man and after his arrival before industrialization?

Several bits of my history come into play when it comes to 9/11 ...
I said we agreed on this one. You did read my post right?

Even so, to address your inquiry, BEFORE man could scientifically record the climate and its day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month, year-to-year, decade-to-decade and century-to-century fluctuations, man had no clue about global warming or cooling. Written records exists, but without some tangible, objective data, we can only guess at what was going on before the invention of things like thermometers.

However, since we have been able to scientifically record the data from the past century or so, this data shows conclusively that global warming (or cooling) is directly related to the Sun's activities, and as you point out, before the so called industrial revolution, the climate on earth rose and fell, which the data again points to the Sun as being the progenitor of these fluctuations.

Rancho_Nirvana
06-28-2012, 15:08
PW, it's evident these are just your everyday troll types looking to bait people into never ending dialogue that they perpetuate by never refuting anything with actual facts, but instead offer little more than weak, subjective, simpleton bull**** in its place.

countrygun
06-28-2012, 17:29
PW, it's evident these are just your everyday troll types looking to bait people into never ending dialogue that they perpetuate by never refuting anything with actual facts, but instead offer little more than weak, subjective, simpleton bull**** in its place.


You are, after all, the resident specialist in simpleton bull****. You couch it in fancy terms to feign intellectual content, but upon examination it is just third-grade thinking couched in a college vocabulary.

In short, you are little more than the fly on the bull pile.

Rancho_Nirvana
06-28-2012, 17:51
"Oh bother" said Pooh...

Awe CG, what would Pooh say? lol

...as far as recognizing simpleton BS when I see it, no need to give me so much credit, its not like you've camouflaged it..

Arquebus12
06-28-2012, 22:25
PW, it's evident these are just your everyday troll types looking to bait people into never ending dialogue that they perpetuate by never refuting anything with actual facts, but instead offer little more than weak, subjective, simpleton bull**** in its place.

Pot, meet Kettle. :wavey:

Peace Warrior
06-29-2012, 02:09
Pot, meet Kettle. :wavey:
Hey, a response from the ultimate epitome of the ignorant pragmatic.

Welcome to the thread Arq! :wavey:

Arquebus12
06-29-2012, 05:17
Pragmatic, yes... Ignorant? Not only am I smarter than you, I've read more books, absorbed more philosophy, studied more discerning thought disciplines than you, I'm also taller, stronger, better looking, and have been with more women than you.

Further, I'm a better shot, have more friends, more guns, and drive a cooler/newer vehicle than you. I even make prettier babies than you can. But most importantly, I will never be even briefly considered as moonbat crazy as you. Know why? Because I'm not afraid to admit to how little I really know.

So let's dance, Thumbdick! Quote me and dissect my rhetoric.

:rofl:

Rancho_Nirvana
06-29-2012, 08:08
PW, I think a knat just landed on your ass... or at least the equivalent thereof.

Arquebus12
06-29-2012, 10:43
It's spelled G-N-A-T, ye of abundant intellect. Damn, you ignorant! How's a fella supposed to engage in a battle of wits against such a poorly armed opponent? Bah! It's like entering into the octagon and going up against a Girl Scout.

Go ahead and rail away, Faulkner, and I'll pop in from time to time and pretend to give the tiniest damn. Don't bottle it up, get it off your little chicken chest, and teach me a lesson with your fount of wisdom....

You're on. Dazzle me with your rhetoric, Betty.

Peace Warrior
06-29-2012, 13:24
PW, I think a knat just landed on your ass... or at least the equivalent thereof.
Careful, he'll insist we are mad at him and that his work is done here. :whistling:

Rancho_Nirvana
06-29-2012, 18:11
Careful, he'll insist we are mad at him and that his work is done here. :whistling:

Naw PW, a clod's work is never done...I think the evidence will bear me out here. ;-)

(Eeerr... Got me on the gnat thing tho...lol... frickin frackin...)

Arquebus12
06-29-2012, 19:28
Coupla fags... TRY HARDER!

Peace Warrior
06-29-2012, 19:32
Naw PW, a clod's work is never done...I think the evidence will bear me out here. ;-)

(Eeerr... Got me on the gnat thing tho...lol... frickin frackin...)
I love how people using Firefox browsers become experts at spelling as well as grammar nazis. ;)

G23Gen4TX
06-29-2012, 21:13
Anyone who claims to be an architect and says that WTC 1&2 were controlled demolition is an idiot and should be kept to designing dog houses.

Ignoring the two large airplanes that hit the buildings, the fires, the point of failure (the point of impact on both buildings) is just dumb. The collapse looked NOTHING like a controlled demolition.

Thinking building 7 was controlled demolition? I can see why someone would think so but after checking the evidence you see again that t wasn't. Fire and a weak area in the structure is what brought the building down.

You don't have to melt steal. You just have to make it weak enough and it won't support that structure.

As for JFK. I live near Dallas and about 3 years ago I went to the 6th floor museum. You get to take a look from the window right next to the one Oswald took the shot from. It's a very easy shot. Very easy.

countrygun
06-29-2012, 22:14
Anyone who claims to be an architect and says that WTC 1&2 were controlled demolition is an idiot and should be kept to designing dog houses.

Ignoring the two large airplanes that hit the buildings, the fires, the point of failure (the point of impact on both buildings) is just dumb. The collapse looked NOTHING like a controlled demolition.

Thinking building 7 was controlled demolition? I can see why someone would think so but after checking the evidence you see again that t wasn't. Fire and a weak area in the structure is what brought the building down.

You don't have to melt steal. You just have to make it weak enough and it won't support that structure.

As for JFK. I live near Dallas and about 3 years ago I went to the 6th floor museum. You get to take a look from the window right next to the one Oswald took the shot from. It's a very easy shot. Very easy.


Heat steel and it bends. no secret. heat steel with that much weight above it, you get a cascade failure.

Or you can belive that a group of exremist whack jobs were a key part of a complex scheme in which they had to hit exactly the right floors with hijacked airplanes to cover the detonation of all those explosives that nobody noticed being planted in the building:upeyes:

why don't you guys go back to eating the grapes off the wallpaper.

Rancho_Nirvana
06-29-2012, 23:01
Careful, he'll insist we are mad at him and that his work is done here. :whistling:

Naw PW, a clod's work is never done...I think the evidence will bear me out here. ;-)

(Eeerr... Got me on the gnat thing tho...lol... frickin frackin...)

Coupla fags... TRY HARDER!

Told ya so...

...lol!!!

Peace Warrior
06-29-2012, 23:35
Pragmatic, yes... Ignorant? Not only am I smarter than you, I've read more books, absorbed more philosophy, studied more discerning thought disciplines than you, I'm also taller, stronger, better looking, and have been with more women than you.

Further, I'm a better shot, have more friends, more guns, and drive a cooler/newer vehicle than you. I even make prettier babies than you can. But most importantly, I will never be even briefly considered as moonbat crazy as you. Know why? Because I'm not afraid to admit to how little I really know. ...
You forgot, "You stay drunker than me."
... So let's dance, Thumbdick! Quote me and dissect my rhetoric.

:rofl:
No thanks, I don't dance with men.

"Thumbdick?" Wow, someone of your self described intellect could have come up with something better than that, OR, maybe you are projecting yet again.

BTW- I know you're good at pissing contest on the net, but do you care to address any of this thread's topics?

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 00:28
Anyone who claims to be an architect and says that WTC 1&2 were controlled demolition is an idiot and should be kept to designing dog houses. ...
Why? Oh wait, either you're an anti-conspiracy nut, or an architect? Which is it?
... Ignoring the two large airplanes that hit the buildings, the fires, the point of failure (the point of impact on both buildings) is just dumb. The collapse looked NOTHING like a controlled demolition. ...
On the day of 9-11, dozens of people who were actually at ground zero and or who watched the buildings come down on monitors or TV described it exactly as if they were watching controlled demolitions.

IMO, with the evidence we have today, anyone who claims that 1, 2, & 7 WTC were not brought down by controlled demolitions doesn't know his/her head from a hole in the ground. Such a person ignores all the explosions captured on video, audio, and being described by eyewitnesses ON THE DAY of 9-11.

On 9-11 a videographer, located on a pier directly across the river in New Jersey, started recording video with audio of the event shortly after it began. His video captured numerous explosions before and just prior to the buildings coming down. This same video also has in the background the audio of
WINS (1010 AM), in New York City, radio's broadcast on the morning of 9-11. This broadcast has numerous callers and an eyewitness on a roof top not far from the towers. her and others go on air live and describe what they see/hear at ground zero on 9-11.

With all the evidence we have today, anyone arguing that fire alone brought down the three buildings has his/her head firmly planted in their own "donkey."

--------------------------------

Here's the video, '9-11 Eyewitness'the first of several large explosions can be heard starting around the 0:01:53 mark, then another couple at around the 0:02:58 mark, and then a longer series of explosions going off around the 0:03:39 mark in the video. The explosions continue sporadically throughout this video. Before its conclusion, the maker of the video does some technical, but simple calculations to make it easier to match the actual video with audio heard by eliminating the sound travel time delay.

Fire alone did NOT bring down those buildings.

G23Gen4TX
06-30-2012, 02:06
No. It definitely wasn't fire alone. It was two airplanes flying at 450mph and weighing hundreds of tons that did.

Tell me this, if you plan to do a controlled demolition and blame the Muslims then why bother with airplanes. Just put explosives and blame them. You can always say they did something similar to what they did in '93.

I'm sure that to the people that were there it looked like controlled demo and every explosion sounded like a bomb.

And I'm the nut.

G23Gen4TX
06-30-2012, 02:15
Heat steel and it bends. no secret. heat steel with that much weight above it, you get a cascade failure.

Or you can belive that a group of exremist whack jobs were a key part of a complex scheme in which they had to hit exactly the right floors with hijacked airplanes to cover the detonation of all those explosives that nobody noticed being planted in the building:upeyes:

why don't you guys go back to eating the grapes off the wallpaper.

Common. Those floors above the impact area weigh nothing.

countrygun
06-30-2012, 10:53
Common. Those floors above the impact area weigh nothing.


You see there is the real flaw behind the whole "conspiracy" circle-jerk. A rational person not only has to buy their whole complex theory, that as far as I can see would have to date to the building of the WTC to keep all those explosives hidden, but the rational person has to SUSPEND all of thier knowledge of reality and WILLFULLY DISMISS it and SUSPEND any belief in physics, thermodynamics, combustion, controlled demolition, human nature, the laws of chance, and a host of other things to swallow the kool-aid.

You have to suspend the knowledge that if a group of passengers had done what the brave passengers on one of the other flights did, the whole plot would have fallen apart and been exposed.

You have to ignore the fact that the plot would have literally involved hundreds of people and they would ALL have to keep the secret.

You have to set aside your knowledge that those buildings were not designed to be landing places for commercial airliners.

You have to ignore any knowledge about liquids seeking the lowest point they can find undr the influence of gravity.

You have to forget what you know about the flammability of jet fuel.

If you have ever watched controlled demolitions, or if you have even seen on of the TV shows about it, you have to dismiss what you have seen about pre-weakening a structure and drilling and planting the explosives properly, because you have to then dismiss the chance that somebody might notice this being done in the WTC.

If you have ever watched steel being forged by a blacksmith you have to completely deny that heat softens it.

If you have ever seen the remains of an industrial fire or large structure fire you must erase all evidence, in your mind, of metal being twisted by the heat and weight.

If you have ever built a house of cards you must ignore the fact that a misplaced card in the middle will cause the whole structure to collapse.

You cannot think about the effects of a heavy airplane slamming horizontally into a building, "across it's grain" as it were, and the destabilizing effect that would have on the upper floors.

Do not for a moment think about all of that weight being thrust in to the building and the stresses that alone would cause.

You cannot think to yourself "Gee, if someone had something to gain by "faking" such a thing to blame terrorist, there would have been a lot easier and less complicated ways to do it that had fewer chances of anything going wrong"

Nope, you over the "fringe" lunatics, the problem with your whole conspiracy theory is that it, well I don't know how you will take this,

better sit down,


It simply does not hold up unless one was determined to believe in it before they ever looked at the facts.

Get the dude that explains the 'Aliens" on the History Channel to be the front man for your "campaign" it could only improve your credibility, at least among those around the edge that haven't yet joined you in the " Inner Circle of the Supreme Cuckoo"

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 11:04
...And I'm the nut.
This thread makes a differentiation.

There are ANTI-conspiracy nuts out there. Simply stated, when the evidence is so overwhelming that the planes alone did not bring down the three buildings in the fashion that they came down, and one still refuses to believe that more was afoot, that one is an ANTI-conspiracy nut, or kook, or whatever the current, ad hominem phrase de jour may be.
No. It definitely wasn't fire alone. It was two airplanes flying at 450mph and weighing hundreds of tons that did. ...
The two buildings hit by planes were each built to withstand MULTIPLE IMPACTS of modern, commercial airplanes. Both buildings returned to their original positions shortly after the impacts.

Even so, knowing they were designed for such impacts, do you think the engineers didn't take into account the planes having fuel on board? C'mon!?!
... Tell me this, if you plan to do a controlled demolition and blame the Muslims then why bother with airplanes. Just put explosives and blame them. You can always say they did something similar to what they did in '93. ...
I agree, you COULD do that, but since the truth came out about the first try in 1993, which the FBI supplied the actual explosives used in that attempt, how could the gubmint explain 19 terrorists having the unlimited access to plant all the charges to cause it to come down by implosion? No, it was an inside job with all the involved parties and actors making out like bandits.

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 11:31
Common. Those floors above the impact area weigh nothing.
Are you intimating that you support the "pancake theory?"

You may want to consider that 2-WTC's structure above the impact sight, due to the way the plane hit closer to the corner of the building itself, began to fall off of the remaining, uninvolved structure, which means the lower floors would have no "pile driver" to collapse the floors by "pancaking."

This knowledge of the 2-WTC collapse, coupled the observed debris piles of both 1 & 2 WTC on the morning of 09-12-2001, indicate that 1-WTC's floors, BELOW the impact sight, came down in the same fashion as 2-WTC's floors that were below the impact sight.

The way 2-WTC came down, considering that the top was falling off of the remaining structure at the time of collapse, completely, wholly, and totally destroys the pancake theory. The fact that both the debris piles were strikingly similar indicates that 1-WTC came down in the same manner 2-WTC. The two buildings were imploded and brought down on purpose.

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 11:38
You see there is the real flaw behind the whole "conspiracy" circle-jerk. A rational person not only has to buy their whole complex theory, that as far as I can see would have to date to the building of the WTC to keep all those explosives hidden, ...
You state, "...as far as I can see..."

Such personal perceptions or presuppositions may be steering you away from the truth. Open your mind to evidence you NEVER knew existed and was revealed on or after 9-11 and your perceptions may change.

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 11:43
... but the rational person has to SUSPEND all of thier knowledge of reality and WILLFULLY DISMISS it and SUSPEND any belief in physics, thermodynamics, combustion, controlled demolition, human nature, the laws of chance, and a host of other things to swallow the kool-aid. ...
Two points of fact:

1) You are not a learned or trained professional in the areas of physics, thermodynamics, combustion, controlled demolition, human nature and or the laws of chance. In the interest of full disclosure neither am I. We can however make use of others' education or experience in forming our positions.



2) There are thousands of learned and trained professionals in the areas of physics, thermodynamics, combustion and or controlled demolition that utilize both their individual and corporate expertise and knowledge base to state unequivocally that 1, 2, & 7 WTC buildings came down by way of controlled demolitions on 9-11.

countrygun
06-30-2012, 12:08
Two points of fact:


1) You are not a learned or trained professional in the areas of physics, thermodynamics, combustion, controlled demolition, human nature and or the laws of chance. In the interest of full disclosure neither am I. We can however make use of others' education or experience in forming our positions.

How do you know who I am and what I know. Bad assumptions. It doesn't take a great knowledge of chemistry for the layman to know that jet fuel burns and when jet fuel burns it gets hot.



2) There are thousands of learned and trained professionals in the areas of physics, thermodynamics, combustion and or controlled demolition that utilize both their individual and corporate expertise and knowledge base to state unequivocally that 1, 2, & 7 WTC buildings came down by way of controlled demolitions on 9-11.
And there are "experts" who say "we never landed on the moon" , 'Kennedy was shot from two different direction" Yadda-yadda. There are experts, whose conclusions jive with my experience, and they and I (in my laymans fashion) concluded that "what we saw was what we got".



"Suspend what your common sense tells you, forget your knowledge, BELIEVE BROTHERS, BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CONSPIRACY. YOUR FAITH ALONE IS PROOF. '

Get yourselves some snazzy robes if you want to do it right.

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 12:25
... You have to suspend the knowledge that if a group of passengers had done what the brave passengers on one of the other flights did, the whole plot would have fallen apart and been exposed. ...
Biased conjecture at best and a horribly weak straw man argument at worst.

... You have to ignore the fact that the plot would have literally involved hundreds of people and they would ALL have to keep the secret. ...

On the contrary as one must embrace, not ignore, the fact that even thousands of people can keep a secret. Our nations' military is a prime example of people keeping secrets, which is especially true in the area of covert operations.

... You have to set aside your knowledge that those buildings were not designed to be landing places for commercial airliners. ...
On the contrary as one must embrace, not ignore, the fact that the engineers purposely envisioned that a plane or planes may collide with the towers after they were built. Due to this foresight, they engineered each tower to be able to withstand MULTIPLE impacts from commercial airliners.

... You have to ignore any knowledge about liquids seeking the lowest point they can find undr the influence of gravity.

You have to forget what you know about the flammability of jet fuel. ...
Do you honestly believe or think that the engineers would forget that huge commercial airliners also carry large amounts of fuel when they are flying back and forth from airports. I'm sure, back in the late 60's and early 70's, the ALL the engineers of 1 & 2 WTC understood that commercial airliners were not mere gliders.

... If you have ever watched controlled demolitions, or if you have even seen on of the TV shows about it, you have to dismiss what you have seen about pre-weakening a structure and drilling and planting the explosives properly, because you have to then dismiss the chance that somebody might notice this being done in the WTC. ...
Or, you have to ignore all the evidence and eyewitnesses on the day of 9-11 and or that have come forth since 9-11, which both detailed exactly what could be the faculty for secretly undermining 1 & 2 WTC while at the same time planting charges prior to 9-11.

Evidence shows that more than ample opportunity could have been given to a team of people that had experience with controlled demolitions.

... If you have ever watched steel being forged by a blacksmith you have to completely deny that heat softens it.

If you have ever seen the remains of an industrial fire or large structure fire you must erase all evidence, in your mind, of metal being twisted by the heat and weight. ...
You're mixing apples with oranges.

I'll be the first to support the fact that a single story, steel framed building's ROOF may fail or collapse due to a fire, I've seen it happen myself; however, this has to do with what the engineers, designing the roof, considered before constructing the roof itself.

OTOH, when designing a multistory, steel framed building, the design itself plans construction to be done is such a way so as to avoid a global or partial collapse due to fire(s). This inability to fail due to fire is purposely built into the building itself.

Now for oranges to oranges: 1 & 2 WTC buildings were BOTH built to withstand impacts by planes and collapse due to fire.

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 13:06
How do you know who I am and what I know. Bad assumptions. ...
Assumptions? Not my style as I honestly try NOT to assume anything. I also get accused of asking unnecessary questions because of my tendency not to assume anything.

So knowing, I inquired as to your knowledge of subject material and you told me, here, (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19140776#post19140776) so regardless of whether or not you left some pertinent information out, I was not making any assumptions as to your expertise or lack thereof.

...It doesn't take a great knowledge of chemistry for the layman to know that jet fuel burns and when jet fuel burns it gets hot. ...
I agree 100%. However, understanding the effects of that jet fuel fire's heat on the steel, holding up a skyscraper, does require more than just a simple layman's knowledge.

... And there are "experts" who say "we never landed on the moon" ...
Mentioning off topic rhetoric. Very typical of the anti-conspiracy kook crowd.

... 'Kennedy was shot from two different direction" Yadda-yadda. There are experts, whose conclusions jive with my experience, and they and I (in my laymans fashion) concluded that "what we saw was what we got".
Refusing to look at the evidence is another typical ideal that anti-conspiracy kooks vehemently hold.

We briefly touched on the JFK murder already. There were at least 5 shots made, this is proven conclusively by the evidence coupled with the warren commission report.

I reiterate, knowing that there were at least five shots on 11-22-1963, does this change your views?

"Suspend what your common sense tells you, forget your knowledge, BELIEVE BROTHERS, BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CONSPIRACY. YOUR FAITH ALONE IS PROOF. '

Get yourselves some snazzy robes if you want to do it right.
More rhetoric.

Of course, I could play along by responding in like fashion.

Such as: "Suspend what your common sense tells you, forget your knowledge, BELIEVE BROTHERS, BELIEVE THAT CONSPIRACIES NEVER OCCUR. YOUR SIMPLETON MINDS WILL THANK YOU IN THE END."

G23Gen4TX
06-30-2012, 13:24
Conspiracy theorists are just like religious people in my mind. Use believe to support their claims instead of real evidence, logic and physiques.

As such, I treat you the same.

Arquebus12
06-30-2012, 15:02
Told ya so...

...lol!!!

Nawp. Saying "I told you so" don't make it so.

I will say this... The pair of you definitely found each other AND a home on the web tubes. Between one of you projecting his foibles while loudly yelling "I GOT THE ANSWERS! NOBODY FOOLED ME! JUST ASK ME!", while simultaneously being the equivalent of a psychiatry doctoral candidates wet dream, and the other who clearly never met Roy Rogers.

I'm going to give the two of you a little privacy. ;)


Bye... :wavey:

Arquebus12
06-30-2012, 15:13
BTW- I know you're good at pissing contest on the net, but do you care to address any of this thread's topics?

Pffffffft.

"You've done nothing when you've bested a fool." -Ranger LaBoeuf, "True Grit"

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 15:27
Conspiracy theorists are just like religious people in my mind. Use believe to support their claims instead of real evidence, logic and [physics].

As such, I treat you the same.
Well, I'm not very religious, but I have a decent grasp of reality, unlike the anticonspiracy theorists, and so understanding only evidence, logic and physics would cause me to believe that the three buildings that collapsed on 9-11 did so due to either plane impacts and fires (i.e. 1 & 2 WTC), or just by fire alone (i.e. 7-WTC), which is just my point, the actual evidence points to controlled demolitions of all three buildings. .

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 15:28
Pffffffft.

"You've done nothing when you've bested a fool." -Ranger LaBoeuf, "True Grit"
That's awesome wisdom and I honestly stand humbled at it. :embarassed:

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 15:36
Nawp. Saying "I told you so" don't make it so.

I will say this... The pair of you definitely found each other AND a home on the web tubes. Between one of you projecting his foibles while loudly yelling "I GOT THE ANSWERS! NOBODY FOOLED ME! JUST ASK ME!", while simultaneously being the equivalent of a psychiatry doctoral candidates wet dream, and the other who clearly never met Roy Rogers.

I'm going to give the two of you a little privacy. ;)


Bye... :wavey:
Didn't think you had any evidence to offer, only rhetoric and attempts at insulting people that think differently than you do. Typical of the anticonspiracy crowd.

An aside: You may not believe this, but I respect your views and accept your nihilistic delusion towards the facts concerning 9-11. IMO, it is a decision by process, which all Americans must make for themselves. However, your juvenile rhetoric tends to have been developed while you were in the 7th grade. Highly recommend you up your game in that respect.

Anyway, have good day sir. No hard feelings on this end. :wavey:

countrygun
06-30-2012, 15:47
Well at least one of them admitted to being a 'Conspiracy theory junkie" with the pap about "5 shots" in Dallas. THe biggest laugh in the history of conspiracies. If you have never fired a Carcano at those distances don't even try to tell me Oswald didn't act alone. If you have never recovered a 6.5 FMJ bullet, or even read Bell's writings about using them on elephants don't tell me about it.

Some folks have such shallow lives that they try to give themselves some depth by pretending to have some "special knowledge" so they can stand out and garner attention by proposing the ridiculous.

Just like religions that popped up in the early 1800's based on a "doomsday" prediction, they stick around and prostelytize, claiming some divine knowledge and crowing that the unbelievers shall perish for their ignorance. Once in a while a couple of them find each other and start preaching on the public corner that is the internet.

Sorry little people trying to convince themselves they have meaning and a divine message, they obtained by interpreting the chicken entrails. Well at least they do us the courtesy of showing themselves so we know who to dismiss.

These clowns are one step way from "manmade earthquakes". I am waiting for the "Jewish Conspiracy" to creep into their lunatic ravings next.

I too am going to leave them alone to enjoy each other's company in their two man circle. I do hope they wash their hands when they are done.

countrygun
06-30-2012, 15:50
Didn't think you had any evidence to offer, only rhetoric and attempts at insulting people that think differently than you do. Typical of the anticonspiracy crowd.

An aside: You may not believe this, but I respect your views and accept your nihilistic delusion towards the facts concerning 9-11. IMO, it is a decision by process, which all Americans must make for themselves. However, your juvenile rhetoric tends to have been developed while you were in the 7th grade. Highly recommend you up your game in that respect.

Anyway, have good day sir. No hard feelings on this end. :wavey:



http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/Mrlamarr.png

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 16:02
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/Mrlamarr.png
At least Arc used a 7th grade rhetoric when avoiding facts and simply throwing out ad hominems to avoid the topic. As it is, you're well below that level. :whistling:

Rancho_Nirvana
06-30-2012, 16:05
I'm going to give the two of you a little privacy. ;)


Bye... :wavey:

See, you're capable of reasoned thought, rational ideas, and right action on occasion...

G23Gen4TX
06-30-2012, 17:10
Well, I'm not very religious, but I have a decent grasp of reality, unlike the anticonspiracy theorists, and so understanding only evidence, logic and physics would cause me to believe that the three buildings that collapsed on 9-11 did so due to either plane impacts and fires (i.e. 1 & 2 WTC), or just by fire alone (i.e. 7-WTC), which is just my point, the actual evidence points to controlled demolitions of all three buildings. .

There's absolutely NO evidence of controlled demolition. NONE of the things that we see in controlled demolition were exhibited on 9-11.

WTC clearly failed at the point of impact and then caved upon themselves pushing the outer parts of the building making it "peel" like a banana. That's not what controlled demolition looks like. No matter how hard you try.

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 17:56
There's absolutely NO evidence of controlled demolition. NONE of the things that we see in controlled demolition were exhibited on 9-11.

WTC clearly failed at the point of impact and then caved upon themselves pushing the outer parts of the building making it "peel" like a banana. That's not what controlled demolition looks like. No matter how hard you try.
Well before the tower fell, here is a video of someone being blown out of the window due to an explosion inside: WTC exploding man, A person gets blown out of the WTC by what looks like an explosion - YouTube

Peace Warrior
06-30-2012, 18:06
The dozens, if not hundreds, of explosions that are documented to have occurred on 9-11 itself more than satisfies the need for evidence of a controlled demolition. Only anticonspiracy kooks would say or pretend to think otherwise.

Something is mentally wrong with people who do not acknowledged the truth right before their eyes.

As I have always maintained, I understand why someone would not go along with the inside job position in order to protect their paycheck or if they were actually a part of it in the first place, but others who disagree with the mountain of evidence showing that 9-11 was not carried out by only 19 terrorists are simply useful idiots, IMHO.

Rancho_Nirvana
06-30-2012, 18:28
The one that gets me is the Pentagon.

I mean there was nothing left of a jumbo jet after slamming into a building?

No damage from wings hitting the sides of the main impact hole in the building?

No fuel burning for hours and hours?

Papers in the adjacent offices just blowing around and the offices?

Pretty suspect...

Arquebus12
06-30-2012, 19:15
Didn't think you had any evidence to offer, only rhetoric and attempts at insulting people that think differently than you do. Typical of the anticonspiracy crowd.

An aside: You may not believe this, but I respect your views and accept your nihilistic delusion towards the facts concerning 9-11. IMO, it is a decision by process, which all Americans must make for themselves. However, your juvenile rhetoric tends to have been developed while you were in the 7th grade. Highly recommend you up your game in that respect.

Anyway, have good day sir. No hard feelings on this end. :wavey:

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

http://multimedia.billybrew.com/inigo-montoya.jpeg

G23Gen4TX
06-30-2012, 19:30
Well before the tower fell, here is a video of someone being blown out of the window due to an explosion inside: WTC exploding man, A person gets blown out of the WTC by what looks like an explosion - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8oXH9TdDuc&feature=related)

Yeah. It looks like someone is getting blown out of the building because something exploded.

It doesn't look like an explosion from a charge. More like a release of pressure which is very likely due to the fire.

Go watch some detonation videos. It takes a series of carefully placed charges to bering a building down. Plus saying it happens before the building fell, although correct, doesn't make it a demo explosion. We have no idea how long this happened before the buildings fell and even as they fell we saw the pressure blowing windows out.

Your stupid conspiracy holds water like a straw basket.

G23Gen4TX
06-30-2012, 19:33
The one that gets me is the Pentagon.

I mean there was nothing left of a jumbo jet after slamming into a building?

No damage from wings hitting the sides of the main impact hole in the building?

No fuel burning for hours and hours?

Papers in the adjacent offices just blowing around and the offices?

Pretty suspect...

Don't worry about the evidence. Look behind your back. There is a conspiracy out there.

If you choose to be dumb you'll stay dumb.

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Rancho_Nirvana
07-01-2012, 15:10
Don't worry about the evidence. Look behind your back. There is a conspiracy out there.

If you choose to be dumb you'll stay dumb.

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

Do you really want to endlessly exchange websites that corroborate the opposing viewpoints?

I'll pass.

I will say this; I have not said I believe one thing or another, just that some things are worth further consideration, certainly more than just defaulting to the official party line for the answer.

Take the Osama Bin Laden thing, I mean he was the most sought after person on the planet, virtually the entire world searched for him for over 10 years, countless man hours and an infinite amount of resources were expended to find him and bring him to justice.

Then he is killed during the capture, ...okay, ...but then his body gets disposed of before any independent confirmation can be done, ...then that is attributed to some bogus Muslim tradition, ...and then the very people who killed him happen to all die in a helicopter crash...etc, etc, etc...

...stuff like that just seems pretty murky IMO...

G23Gen4TX
07-01-2012, 15:26
I'm sure Bin Laden is still alive and is the puppet master behind his Muslim cusin in the white house.

Arquebus12
07-01-2012, 15:49
Mmmmffft! :rofl:

Sarcasm all over my screen... YUK! :supergrin:

RichardB
07-01-2012, 17:59
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp

There are photos of the aircraft debris from the plane that hit the pentagon.

countrygun
07-01-2012, 18:16
The one that gets me is the Pentagon.

I mean there was nothing left of a jumbo jet after slamming into a building?

No damage from wings hitting the sides of the main impact hole in the building?

No fuel burning for hours and hours?

Papers in the adjacent offices just blowing around and the offices?

Pretty suspect...

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/pentagon.png



Uhm, yah, real suspect:upeyes: Yup look at all the indications that it was a bomb on the inside. All of the force directed outward.....oh...wait....there isn't any evidence of that. It looks like something crashed in to the building.


Read the snopes link posted

Jerry
07-01-2012, 18:59
Several bits of my history come into play when it comes to 9/11

I am also aware of the incredibly complex "conspiracy" that would have to take place and how long in advance the planning would have to be in place for any other answer to be possible. To have put all of the planning in the hands of 19 cretinous fanatics in order for the plan to succeed is ridiculous. To epect it was done in complete secrecy without one single person actually coming forward and saying "Yes, I took part in placing the explosives (or what ever crackpot scheme you have in mind) is ludicrous. This from a Government who couldn't hide a blow job?


Since I can't think of one thing the government hasn't screwed up I tend to believe it was not Our Governments conspiracy. Hell, they even crash a He-lo going after Bin Lade because no one thought about the walls causing an up-draft.

Now I still believe there was someone on the Grassy Noll. :supergrin:

Arquebus12
07-01-2012, 19:08
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee518/CountryG/pentagon.png



Uhm, yah, real suspect:upeyes: Yup look at all the indications that it was a bomb on the inside. All of the force directed outward.....oh...wait....there isn't any evidence of that. It looks like something crashed in to the building.


Read the snopes link posted

Looks to me like a very hard and deliberately overbuilt structure that was built to last and to military specs because they knew in advance that it was going to be a target by enemy forces because it was the nerve center of America's military. Further, it looks as if it was impacted by a vehicle thats constructed primarily of aluminum, because they knew in advance that it HAD to be lightweight in construction because it was a flying machine (lighter things tend to fly better, which is why kites are not made of iron). That, and it was also intended to be a passenger vessel, not a warship, and so the onus of building good aircraft is to build them as lightly as possible.

QED, this particular plane folded up like a beer can (say, aren't beer cans... Aluminum?), then burned (aluminum burns... Oh, yes it does), leaving little in the way of visual evidence of there having been an aircraft involved when viewed by the highly suspicious and self trained eyes of fire investigators and forensic analysts like Pansy Warrior and Rancho Neanderthal.

THAT IS, unless one were to look at photographs of the interior of the impact area in the "A" Ring, and see two very easily discerned travel paths of the two engines that torpedoed along because of their high density and mass after they were ripped off their wing mounts. None of which is visible from outside views... But suspicious and inquiring minds like those mentioned above would SURELY know of the photographic evidence of which I speak, because having studied this particular event in great depth and detail, they are thoroughly familiar with all aspects of the events surrounding Sep. 11th, 2001. They know, because you can't get one by on THESE guys, right?

How's that, Thumbdick? Did I address the issues like you asked me to enough? Wanna keep going?

Arquebus12
07-01-2012, 19:15
Do you really want to endlessly exchange websites that corroborate the opposing viewpoints?

I'll pass.

Yeah, can't have nothing like possible corroborating evidence, like the truth, that would refute what you WANT to believe.

Good job, locking that mind of yours up, close and tight! :thumbsup:

countrygun
07-01-2012, 19:32
Do you really want to endlessly exchange websites that corroborate the opposing viewpoints?

.


Yes, that can be quite tiring to a man of faith like yourself. trying to keep up with all the objections to your belief system.

BTW "Plane parts' are facts. Saying "they were planted" is speculation. Someone else saying "that's right" is just two people speculating, not corroberation.

Rancho_Nirvana
07-01-2012, 22:31
LOL, geeze, you guys are too much, like a couple rabid dogs just looking for someone to pounce on...

Whatever, again I have no particular belief system with respect to these things, I do feel like there are many things about which we don't have all the information, or the information we do have is suspect, and so I am willing to remain open about it...

Simple as that.

countrygun
07-01-2012, 23:02
LOL, geeze, you guys are too much, like a couple rabid dogs just looking for someone to pounce on...

Whatever, again I have no particular belief system with respect to these things, I do feel like there are many things about which we don't have all the information, or the information we do have is suspect, and so I am willing to remain open about it...

Simple as that.


There are at least a couple of us, do we qualify for the

"We're part of a conspiracy"

t-shirts yet?

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 04:19
hint hint: The word rhetoric can also be used as a noun described by an adjective/adverb.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

http://multimedia.billybrew.com/inigo-montoya.jpeg
Ugh, college kids/recent grads...

IIRC, we, as in you and I, have gone over something similar to this once before. Okay, I understand the definition of the word rhetoric. If I mistakenly did not use it clearly with an adjective/adverb, then, "Oops I goofed." mea culpa

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 04:26
The one that gets me is the Pentagon.

I mean there was nothing left of a jumbo jet after slamming into a building?

No damage from wings hitting the sides of the main impact hole in the building?

No fuel burning for hours and hours?

Papers in the adjacent offices just blowing around and the offices?

Pretty suspect...
A few days later the pentagon officials gave the world photographs of assorted plane parts amidst the debris caused by the missile. You'd think they would have realized ahead of time the need to go by an aircraft bone-yard somewhere and get some actual plane parts, but hey, this is our gubmint officials we are talking about, so I understand their oversight and delay in providing "the evidence."

The responding firemen/EMT's decided to keep their jobs and now they won't speak with ANYONE about what they witnessed at the pentagon. IIRC, two or three firefighters had scheduled interviews with the media, but they interviews were nixed by the ones that keep their paychecks coming.

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 04:30
There are at least a couple of us, do we qualify for the

"We're part of a conspiracy"

t-shirts yet?
You guys are the anti-conspiracy nuts. Make your own shirts.

RichardB
07-02-2012, 05:00
You may have forgotten or be too young to remember; but I wasn't.

Read this: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 05:09
What also bothered me, when I looked into the facts concerning the pentagon damage, was the fact that prior to the floors/roof collapsing, there was only a roughly 20 feet diameter hole in the outer wall of the E-ring.

A 757, hitting at a roughly 45 to 50 degree angle (i.e., juxtaposed to the surface itself), flying between 350-400 mph ground speed, creates a roughly 20 feet diameter hole, into which the officials story advises that an engine continues on through 3 wings of the pentagon, or a total of at least 7 feet (6 walls at 14" each) of concrete, and subsequently punches a roughly 12 feet diameter hole into the C-ring's "inner wall."

I could not find an engine or substantial engine parts in any of the photos depicting the C-ring's exit hole and debris found around it.

No thanks, I ain't buying it.

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 05:12
You may have forgotten or be too young to remember; but I wasn't.

Read this: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html
bin laden never claimed responsibility. When translated correctly, the tape shows that bin laden and others were only speaking ABOUT the 9-11 events.

You, and the rest of us, have been lied to by those covering up this whole thing.

Arquebus12
07-02-2012, 05:23
Of course you didn't. You have neither the access to the science nor the acumen. Two engines, made of steel and titanium and spinning at full thrust (Read: Many thousands of RPM) will not only continue on further than an aluminum tube that is the fuselage, bit will disassemble itself via centrifugal force. The main mass will be there, but now you have it in the form of a high speed cloud of metal. This is the exact same effect that occurs with frangible bullets.

You wouldn't know an engine part from a bowl of petunias anyway, let alone in a poorly lit debris field inside a hardened structure.

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 05:54
The engine was the LAST coverup story offered to the public. First, it was the nose of the aircraft that punched the hole. Then someone asked the "stupid" question, "Can an aircraft nose, which is made up of reinforced polymers break through 7 feet of concrete?" After realizing how stupidly weak their coverup story was, officials changed the story to advise it was the "bulk of the plane's fuselage and contents. Again, someone asked another "stupid" question.

Finally, the officials began advising it was an engine, notably they've never said which engine, that punched through AT LEAST 7 feet of concrete, but was not visible at or near the last hole it supposedly made.


Of course you didn't. You have neither the access to the science nor the acumen. Two engines, made of steel and titanium and spinning at full thrust (Read: Many thousands of RPM) will not only continue on further than an aluminum tube that is the fuselage, bit will disassemble itself via centrifugal force. The main mass will be there, but now you have it in the form of a high speed cloud of metal. This is the exact same effect that occurs with frangible bullets.

You wouldn't know an engine part from a bowl of petunias anyway, let alone in a poorly lit debris field inside a hardened structure.
Regardless of your actual ignorance, you continue to chime away showing how little you actually know. Others may tell you you're smart, but you've yet to come close to demonstrating your self professed intelligence here.

Now, it was either an aircraft engine, or a missile, but not a frangible bullet. To even think about placing a frangible bullet into this discussion shows the height of your ignorance.

OTOH, I agree a missile can create a "cloud" of metal, through the carefully planned use of explosives, but this is supposed to be an aircraft engine off of a 757. I'm not an aircraft engineer, but even if a 757 could create a cloud of metal, how do you explain this cloud going through AT LEAST 5' 10" of concrete? (5' 10" of concrete minus the MINIMUM thickness of the first wall)

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 06:01
Yeah. It looks like someone is getting blown out of the building because something exploded.

It doesn't look like an explosion from a charge. More like a release of pressure which is very likely due to the fire.

Go watch some detonation videos. It takes a series of carefully placed charges to bering a building down. Plus saying it happens before the building fell, although correct, doesn't make it a demo explosion. We have no idea how long this happened before the buildings fell and even as they fell we saw the pressure blowing windows out.

Your stupid conspiracy holds water like a straw basket.
Okay, we've determined you'll deny the evidence slapping you in the face as this happened on the day of 9-11, the same day we have hundreds of eyewitness/ear-witness reports of explosions, with recorded video and audio, from 9-11, backing up their testimonies, and all of this on the same day that THREE, steel framed skyscrapers collapsed from the effects of fire, which has never happened before 9-11, and has not happened since 9-11. Additionally, one of these buildings collapsed at free fall speed (i.e., 7-WTC) and the other two collapsed at almost free fall speed (i.e., 1 & 2 WTC).

Yeah, the cause of that person on the video being blown out of that window, on 9-11, was not an explosion from a planted charge. Oh yeah... :upeyes:

Arquebus12
07-02-2012, 07:26
It must make you feel God-like to create your own laws of physics and concepts of reality. What color sky did you opt for in your world?

You really do only see what you want, re: my level of intelligence and education. See my above post; I'm a vocational HS graduate, nothing more. I will admit to having more than a passing interest in several subjects, and to having done some independent reading, but that's it in terms of education.

Regarding your detailed knowledge of construction and aerospace engineering, and all of them troubling holes in the Pentagon, I'd refer you to the Laws of Thermodynamics, and the root of that being specifically the Theory of Relativity. Fella named Isaac Newton did some work along those lines, take a look at his stuff.

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 08:31
It must make you feel God-like to create your own laws of physics and concepts of reality. What color sky did you opt for in your world?

You really do only see what you want, re: my level of intelligence and education. ...
Just so much more of your juvenile and overly simplistic rhetoric. No need to further encourage you to make yourself appear as an imbecile. You're doing a good enough job already.

But in actuality, it's the anti-conspiracy kooks that have to create their own laws of physics and new reality in order to believe the official cover up story.

You see thousands of professional architects, professional construction engineers, professional aerospace engineers, professional pilots and other engineers in related fields all believe that the official cover up story has ZERO evidence to back it up.

But hey, you got a great idea, keep this between you and I so you don;t have to face the truth. Yep, just make it about what I personally believe and never mention what thousands of experts have said and tested themselves. Sure, keep this on a personal level, specifically you keeping this at your 7th grade like mental acumen, and you'll never have to do anything more but toss insults and foolish rhetoric for a few pages on a thread.

Can't get you to stay on the issues or topics at hand. You be without anything to say then.
... I'm a vocational HS graduate, nothing more. I will admit to having more than a passing interest in several subjects, and to having done some independent reading, but that's it in terms of education. ...
Thanks for the candor.

... Regarding your detailed knowledge of construction and aerospace engineering,...
I know a tad about construction (i.e., c/o structural concrete). I've already said I have no training or experience in aerospace engineering.

Which is why your continued, dogged pursuit of making this about me is asinine. Concerning 9-11, I began on the side of the governmental cover up story.

See, during the event of 9-11, I was in my truck picking up my paycheck. All I heard were radio reports the day of 9-11, and for quite some time after 9-11, I refuse to watch the videos or news reports of 9-11 due to personal convictions (e.g., Watching almost 3,000 Americans die all at once is not something I generally choose to do).

Then some experts like I mentioned herein took a look at the evidence and concluded that the official cover up story has ZERO evidence to back it up; moreover, when doing tests and researching evidence, they discovered something that more in line with the eyewitness testimonies and video/audio recordings from the day of 9-11.

To say I must feel G-d-like to not believe the official cover story is something you've invented in an attempt to insult me, but thousands of other professionals, not laymen like you or I, do not believe the cover story either.

Rancho_Nirvana
07-02-2012, 08:56
you guys are the anti-conspiracy nuts. Make your own shirts.

now that is some funny ****!!!

Rancho_Nirvana
07-02-2012, 09:01
There are at least a couple of us, do we qualify for the

"We're part of a conspiracy"

t-shirts yet?

You guys are the anti-conspiracy nuts. Make your own shirts.

Now That Is Some Funny **** There...! LOL!

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 09:30
... It doesn't look like an explosion from a charge. More like a release of pressure which is very likely due to the fire. ...
WTC exploding man, A person gets blown out of the WTC by what looks like an explosion - YouTube

Looking at this video again, it looks like the man was two or three floors BELOW the fire. If so, fire didn't build up the pressure near where this guy was standing/sitting. Besides, with all the other eye and ear witnesses testifying to numerous explosions, I can more easily believe that this guy was blown out that window by a charge used to help bring down the towers that day more so than pressure from a fire.

Arquebus12
07-02-2012, 10:08
This precisely why its impossible to reason with you or anyone associated with the Democratic party, MoveOn.org, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and his merry pranksters, or that froot loop Louis Farakhan. You got on blinders , seeing only what you want to see, lest your tender little ego take a hit because you CAN'T be WRONG, not EVER!

You still haven't provided a single shred of proof, just warned against the combined wrath of "experts" who don't take kindly to folks not taking what they say as gospel, and admitted in your own words your refusal to observe news coverage for a faux sense of tenderness. This is complete crap, because you're incapable of empathy for anyone other than yourself and your knuckle dragging, slope-browed ego doesn't have the capacity for anything else.

The good news: Folks like you are enormously fun to watch (I freely admit to enjoying the ongoing antagonization being directed to you by myself and others) and the mental health industry makes a fair bit of monies of your type.

As to your repeated insinuations of poor intelligence and lacking education, I say again, Project Much? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Keep on keepin' on, Pizza Warrior! You're hugely entertaining! Carry that torch!

Arquebus12
07-02-2012, 10:14
WTC exploding man, A person gets blown out of the WTC by what looks like an explosion - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8oXH9TdDuc&feature=related)

Looking at this video again, it looks like the man was two or three floors BELOW the fire. If so, fire didn't build up the pressure near where this guy was standing/sitting. Besides, with all the other eye and ear witnesses testifying to numerous explosions, I can more easily believe that this guy was blown out that window by a charge used to help bring down the towers that day more so than pressure from a fire.


You're right. A huge structure filled with all manner of people and their belongings wouldn't be the cause of ANY explosions... Naw, it just simply HAD to be demolition charges! Demo charges going of over a prolonged period and at various points in time, not all at once, or even staggered rapidly like its commonly done in the business of demolitions and mining.

Or no! Wait! They coulda been BOOBY TRAPS! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Rancho_Nirvana
07-02-2012, 10:22
Glock Talk Dictionary



DESPERATION
des∑per∑a∑tion[des-puh-rey-shuhn]

noun

1.
the state of constantly being idiotic, desperate, and reckless.

2.
the incessant juvenile need for approval from another anonymous internet poster by needlessly disrespecting any opposing viewpoints

3.
Clinging to government propaganda despite evidence that would give any rational person reason for further examination.

4.
This precisely why its impossible to reason with you or anyone associated with the Democratic party, MoveOn.org, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and his merry pranksters, or that froot loop Louis Farakhan. You got on blinders , seeing only what you want to see, lest your tender little ego take a hit because you CAN'T be WRONG, not EVER!

You still haven't provided a single shred of proof, just warned against the combined wrath of "experts" who don't take kindly to folks not taking what they say as gospel, and admitted in your own words your refusal to observe news coverage for a faux sense of tenderness. This is complete crap, because you're incapable of empathy for anyone other than yourself and your knuckle dragging, slope-browed ego doesn't have the capacity for anything else.

The good news: Folks like you are enormously fun to watch (I freely admit to enjoying the ongoing antagonization being directed to you by myself and others) and the mental health industry makes a fair bit of monies of your type.

As to your repeated insinuations of poor intelligence and lacking education, I say again, Project Much? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Keep on keepin' on, Pizza Warrior! You're hugely entertaining! Carry that torch!

Origin:
1325–75; Middle English desperacioun < Latin dēspērātiōn- (stem of dēspērātiō ). See desperate (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/desperate), -ion (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/-ion)

For more information on desperation, close mindedness, or being a jerk, see: "Arquebus" under "a" for a******.

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 10:22
This precisely why its impossible to reason with you or anyone associated with the Democratic party, MoveOn.org, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and his merry pranksters, or that froot loop Louis Farakhan. You got on blinders , seeing only what you want to see, lest your tender little ego take a hit because you CAN'T be WRONG, not EVER!

You still haven't provided a single shred of proof, just warned against the combined wrath of "experts" who don't take kindly to folks not taking what they say as gospel, and admitted in your own words your refusal to observe news coverage for a faux sense of tenderness. This is complete crap, because you're incapable of empathy for anyone other than yourself and your knuckle dragging, slope-browed ego doesn't have the capacity for anything else.

The good news: Folks like you are enormously fun to watch (I freely admit to enjoying the ongoing antagonization being directed to you by myself and others) and the mental health industry makes a fair bit of monies of your type.

As to your repeated insinuations of poor intelligence and lacking education, I say again, Project Much? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Keep on keepin' on, Pizza Warrior! You're hugely entertaining! Carry that torch!
:yawn:

... Project Much? ...
Now that's funny coming from you.

:rofl:

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 10:24
You're right. A huge structure filled with all manner of people and their belongings wouldn't be the cause of ANY explosions... Naw, it just simply HAD to be demolition charges! Demo charges going of over a prolonged period and at various points in time, not all at once, or even staggered rapidly like its commonly done in the business of demolitions and mining.

Or no! Wait! They coulda been BOOBY TRAPS! :rofl::rofl::rofl:
Well, even as totally ridiculous as it sounds, booby traps is a theory you could hold to, but you know what, for me, I'll stick with the adults on this one tiger.

G23Gen4TX
07-02-2012, 10:45
WTC exploding man, A person gets blown out of the WTC by what looks like an explosion - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8oXH9TdDuc&feature=related)

Looking at this video again, it looks like the man was two or three floors BELOW the fire. If so, fire didn't build up the pressure near where this guy was standing/sitting. Besides, with all the other eye and ear witnesses testifying to numerous explosions, I can more easily believe that this guy was blown out that window by a charge used to help bring down the towers that day more so than pressure from a fire.

Go ahead. Start a new theory.

Arquebus12
07-02-2012, 11:43
Glock Talk Dictionary



DESPERATION
des∑per∑a∑tion[des-puh-rey-shuhn]

noun

1.
the state of constantly being idiotic, desperate, and reckless.

2.
the incessant juvenile need for approval from another anonymous internet poster by needlessly disrespecting any opposing viewpoints

3.
Clinging to government propaganda despite evidence that would give any rational person reason for further examination.

4.


Origin:
1325Ė75; Middle English desperacioun < Latin dēspērātiōn- (stem of dēspērātiō ). See desperate (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/desperate), -ion (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/-ion)

For more information on desperation, close mindedness, or being a jerk, see: "Arquebus" under "a" for a******.

Awwwww, did I hurt your little feelings, Mongo? Musta done, because you're making non-sensical posts and non sequiturs while simultaneously getting personal. Well, break out the big guns, Nancy, because I'm under your skin like tick, and I actually rose to Pizza Warrior's challenge to refute his statements, ludicrous and simplistic though they be.

My challenge stands: dazzle me with your intellect, befuddle me with facts, and spit on my neck/put my truck inna ditch with your wisdom. Take me to the proverbial woodshed. You can even get personal with me, like some petulant schoolgirl would when she learns she's been shown she's wrong.:tongueout::rofl:

I dare you.

countrygun
07-02-2012, 11:47
Yeah, the cause of that person on the video being blown out of that window, on 9-11, was not an explosion from a planted charge. Oh yeah... :upeyes:

Right, we've been overlooking the reports from people who worked in the WTC about the little men that appeared to be elves from the North pole running around the building days (or was it weeks or months???) before 9/11 leaving all those packages marked "don't open 'till Xmas" on them. Nobody opened any of them so they had no idea there were bombs in them.

Peas Washer, I got news for ya' there. Rigging a building to implode is a very,very complicated thing to do and a lot of people notice you doing it. Now there ARE somethings, not involving the direct destruction of the building, I MIGHT be willing to question about that partcular period of time, but unfortunately they have never been examined to my satisfaction because they get sucked up into the whirlwind of imagination the swirls around the conspiracy/demolition loons like you.

The "9/11 truthers" are a lot like the "Paulites" For the Paulites getting some of the principles of libertarianism put in the Repubican part isn't good enough they have to have their man elected or they are going to discredit their own movement and watch those principles get washed away in the storm of their own futile fanaticism. Attached to their action those principles will forever be stained with their silliness.

9/11 truthers have done the same thing with the serious questions about the incompetence of out intelligence community, the warnings that were ignored, the facts surrounding the lack of action concerning muslim flight students and their strange training requests when they were reported to the "authorities". These things get linked to the "truther" movement and are therefore tainted and disregarded with the goofy conspiracy theories.

It has long been a principle of those that use propoganda to take a reasonable position, of those in opposition, and spin it wildly and exaggerate it to the point that it no longer has credibility. Take any reasonable questions and find some nutbars to whip up a huge "plot" aound it, making fools of themselves in the process and the reasonable questions get lost in their foolishness and discredited along with the fools.

There is no secret about the collapse of the buildings. If we could wave a magic wand and redo that day over again ten different times and just change one or two factors each time we would likely get ten different results. The fact is on that day those factors led to those results. In the other nine cases in our fictional test you would be able to come up with nine different conspiracy theories as well.

As I said, early on in this thread, I personally experienced, many years ago, the inability of the people entrusted with our security, to believe that fanatics would actually crash a plane into a structure. I find, with my experience with our Government, incompetence and lack of foresight led to the events of 9/11, the results were simply a matter of the factors lining up in that formation, different day, different line up of factors, different results.

I am sorry if it shakes your faith in your fellow man, and by extension yourself, but pure dumb luck, and occasionally a fanatic here and there, have had more effect on human events than any secret plots schemes or conspiracies.

Arquebus12
07-02-2012, 11:55
Now that's funny coming from you.

:rofl:

You can't show me where I've projected any insecurities on to you, because I haven't done so. So yeah, I guess that's a little funny, maybe... I'm not sure, frankly, because your sense of humor is as mystifying to me as your logic and thought processes. Near as I can tell, you appear to be a star in your own cartoon that plays endlessly in your head (do you wear a cape, by the way?) As far as projecting goes, I'll stand by what I said about doctoral candidates and you being good source material.

Tell you what, I wanna help. Ever kiss a girl? If you haven't already, go out and find yourself a woman. She doesn't have to be pretty or smart (in fact, smart might be counter productive), and take a break from the interweb net tubes for a while. I'll be right here when you get back, if you like, and you and I can discuss your skewed view and bent ego.

You're gonna thank me.:supergrin:

RichardB
07-02-2012, 12:48
bin laden never claimed responsibility. When translated correctly, the tape shows that bin laden and others were only speaking ABOUT the 9-11 events.

You, and the rest of us, have been lied to by those covering up this whole thing.

"bin Laden said he wanted to explain why he ordered the airline hijackings that hit the World Trade Center (search) and the Pentagon so"

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html#ixzz1zUZyzo2n

Your answer does not compute. What is the source of your translation?

Arquebus12
07-02-2012, 13:24
From his very own legendary mind.

Arquebus12
07-02-2012, 13:35
I am sorry if it shakes your faith in your fellow man, and by extension yourself, but pure dumb luck, and occasionally a fanatic here and there, have had more effect on human events than any secret plots schemes or conspiracies.

There you go. Archduke Ferdinand took one center mass, while sitting in the back of an open convertible, from an anarchist who jumped on to the hood and let fly.

That started WWI. One guy with a gun at a parade in Sarajevo.

Rancho_Nirvana
07-02-2012, 15:31
Arquebus,

If you feel like what I have said is personal, but what you have said is not, well that would be one of the few things that has come from you that makes perfect sense, because your take on virtually everything else has been in large part non-corollary strawmen and self aggrandizing bravado.

I apologize for my part in aggravating your insecurities, and have given the hyperbole and magniloquence they manifest themselves as far too much scrutiny.

Therefore I'll take my leave from this, and allow you to refine your abilities to engage in and construct productive outcomes elsewhere.

Good luck with that...

Arquebus12
07-02-2012, 17:02
Somebody got a Thesaurus! How long it take you to write that? :supergrin:

For what it's worth, you came under my special attention when you called me a cretin in another thread. If you'd been the least bit civil, and not resorted to petty name calling, you wouldn't be scuttling out of here now under the premise of being exasperated by my withering repartee and biting examples of conjecture, witnessed by MANY folks who have confided in me privately, saying that they were wondering what my goal was, engaging in debate with a philosophical maladroit such as yourself. It is curious, isn't it, seeing as how you're firmly entrenched in your ideals, doesn't it?

Well, Betty, the answer to that is because it's fun. Not circus fun, or new car shopping fun, or even road trip fun. No, this is fun for me in the exact same way that a mouse is fun for a cat. :wavey:

Off you go, now... And sincere thanks for the compliment; never in my life have I been accused of being in possession of any level of magniloquence... A teacher once said i write a nice report, but THIS...! Being a simple blue collar guy from Ohio, I'm hugely flattered. :supergrin:

Arquebus12
07-02-2012, 17:28
[B]You see thousands of professional architects, professional construction engineers, professional aerospace engineers, professional pilots and other engineers in related fields all believe that the official cover up story has ZERO evidence to back it up. [/]


~~~~~~~~~~


Then some experts like I mentioned herein took a look at the evidence and concluded that the official cover up story has ZERO evidence to back it up; moreover, when doing tests and researching evidence, they discovered something that more in line with the eyewitness testimonies and video/audio recordings from the day of 9-11.


Two references to numerous experts, numbering in the "thousands" who refute the events of the day in question etc. etc. etc....


Name two of them.

PS- I seeded my most recent post to Rancho Numbnuts with some more big words you've never used in your entire life that you can work into your responses. A little word of advice; look them up before using them. It's okay not to know what they mean, but it does make you look foolish when wrongly use a word. For example, a Thesaurus is not a dinosaur of any kind.

Little hint. Good luck.

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 19:44
"bin Laden said he wanted to explain why he ordered the airline hijackings that hit the World Trade Center (search) and the Pentagon so"

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html#ixzz1zUZyzo2n

Your answer does not compute. What is the source of your translation?
He gave an interview to the pakistani newspaper, Ummat, in which he denied any involvement, the FBI would never list him as a suspect because they "never found any evidence that he was part of the 9-11 attacks," and last but not least the CIA admitted to creating the now famous, BUT TOTALLY FAKE, Nov 09, 2001, video in which bin laden was supposed to admit to the attacks.

The Ummat article has been translated into English and posted online here (http://ahabit.com/truth/) and other places in the net.

"[The] FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11." -Veep dick cheney

"We've never made the case, or argued the case, that somehow Osama Bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11." -Veep dick cheney

(NOTE: As far as cheney's back peddling, IIRC, he said these things AFTER doubts arose about the Nov 09, 2001, video's authenticity was being questioned and researched, which was after bin laden's reported death in Dec of 2001.)



The [CIA] actually did make a video purporting to show Osama bin Laden (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/05/cia_group_had_wacky_ideas_to_d.html) and his cronies sitting around a campfire swigging bottles of liquor and savoring their conquests with boys, one of the former CIA officers recalled, chuckling at the memory. - Jeff Stine, Washington Post reporter

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 20:04
... I find, with my experience with our Government, incompetence and lack of foresight led to the events of 9/11, the results were simply a matter of the factors lining up in that formation, different day, different line up of factors, different results.

I am sorry if it shakes your faith in your fellow man, and by extension yourself, but pure dumb luck, and occasionally a fanatic here and there, have had more effect on human events than any secret plots schemes or conspiracies.
I see where you are coming from, and I always say, "To each his/her own."

So knowing, we are on different sides of the fence as far as this issue. 9-11 is very pulling on emotions, so, no hard feelings from me. :wavey:
... As I said, early on in this thread, I personally experienced, many years ago, the inability of the people entrusted with our security, to believe that fanatics would actually crash a plane into a structure. ...
Everyone knew this was going to happen sooner or later IF, and I repeat, IF hijackers could get sufficient firepower on board a plane to take it over.

The lies from our officials advising that neither they, nor anyone else, knew or could have possibly foreseen such an attack coming made me laugh and get infuriated the first time, and then each and every time this lie was repeated by a new actor.

Heck, on September 10, 2001, they were conducting drills of planes being flown into buildings by terrorists. Yeah, they never had a clue. :upeyes:

Peace Warrior
07-02-2012, 20:41
You can't show me where I've projected any insecurities on to you, because I haven't done so. So yeah, I guess that's a little funny, maybe... I'm not sure, frankly, because your sense of humor is as mystifying to me as your logic and thought processes. Near as I can tell, you appear to be a star in your own cartoon that plays endlessly in your head (do you wear a cape, by the way?) As far as projecting goes, I'll stand by what I said about doctoral candidates and you being good source material.

Tell you what, I wanna help. Ever kiss a girl? If you haven't already, go out and find yourself a woman. She doesn't have to be pretty or smart (in fact, smart might be counter productive), and take a break from the interweb net tubes for a while. I'll be right here when you get back, if you like, and you and I can discuss your skewed view and bent ego.

You're gonna thank me.:supergrin:

Somebody got a Thesaurus! How long it take you to write that? :supergrin:

For what it's worth, you came under my special attention when you called me a cretin in another thread. If you'd been the least bit civil, and not resorted to petty name calling, you wouldn't be scuttling out of here now under the premise of being exasperated by my withering repartee and biting examples of conjecture, witnessed by MANY folks who have confided in me privately, saying that they were wondering what my goal was, engaging in debate with a philosophical maladroit such as yourself. It is curious, isn't it, seeing as how you're firmly entrenched in your ideals, doesn't it?

Well, Betty, the answer to that is because it's fun. Not circus fun, or new car shopping fun, or even road trip fun. No, this is fun for me in the exact same way that a mouse is fun for a cat. :wavey:

Off you go, now... And sincere thanks for the compliment; never in my life have I been accused of being in possession of any level of magniloquence... A teacher once said i write a nice report, but THIS...! Being a simple blue collar guy from Ohio, I'm hugely flattered. :supergrin:
:yawn:

seanmac45
07-03-2012, 04:42
FACT: Nineteen Islamic Jihadists hijacked four commercial airliners with the intent of crashing them into pre-selected targets in a direct attack on the United States of America. Their movements within this and other countries have been documented and thoroughly investigated by U.S. and foreign intelligence agencies. Their trial runs on commercial flights prior to the actual attack have been well proven via videotapes, computer records, and eyewitness testimony of flight crews, ticketing agents and passengers. Their identities and personal histories are rock solid.


FACT: Three of the airliners were successfully used to attack WTC1, WTC2 and the Pentagon. The air traffic recordings, black boxes, and eyewitness accounts all cohesively document their terminal flight paths into the intended targets. One plane was successfully deterred from itsí target due to the heroic actions of the passengers on board. It plummeted straight down into a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.


FACT: At each of the crash scenes there was more than enough forensic evidence and human remains to verify exactly where and when each of the four airliners crashed. There is no and has never been any doubt as to the final resting place of all four airliners along with their crew and passengers.


FACT: The building / airplane collisions and resulting collapses at the World Trade Center resulted in fatal damage to a total of eight buildings. The fires and damage caused by the collapsing towers also damaged at least 10 other structures which did not collapse and were eventually repaired.


FACT: The resulting fires at the collapse site caused catastrophic damage and collapses of the Marriott World Trade Center Hotel, WTC buildings 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7.


FACT: No firefighting efforts were made to save any of those structures for a number of reasons. First, FDNYís leadership was decimated when the entire top echelon of their Special Operations Division was wiped out in the collapse of Towers 1 and 2. Electricity was out, water mains were damaged and the first order of the day was searching for survivors.


FACT: The area immediately surrounding the collapsed towers was incredibly dangerous to work in. There were tons of structural steel from the two main towers sticking out of buildings like spears, waiting to fall. The fires burning in the debris field were hellish, and had a tendency to flare up among the first responders without warning. The Deutsche Bank building was so badly damaged that rescuers were repeatedly evacuated over the next few weeks in anticipation of itsí collapse. It was eventually razed AFTER having been repaired enough to prevent it from spontaneously collapsing on itsí own.


FACT: WTC 7 along with the others was left to burn over the course of the first day. The fires in WTC 7 were of a size, intensity and duration that went well beyond the fire ratings of all materials used in itsí construction. The building itself was an engineering compromise as constructed due to the fact that it was built over a massive power substation that did not conform to the footprint of the office structure.


FACT: WTC 7 came down with no loss of further life because the engineers and fire officers on the scene were able to anticipate itsí collapse at least an hour in advance. That correct determination of itsí impending demise saved lives. All personnel were withdrawn to a safe distance prior to its fall.


FACT: The World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks were the most diligently investigated crime scenes in modern history. Literally thousands of the best investigators in the world were involved. Tons of physical evidence was recovered, vouchered and tested. Everyone involved was highly motivated to see it through to a proper and just conclusion. No shortcuts were taken, no overtime caps were imposed, and no one was directing what the final conclusions were to be. The results of the WTC investigation, both criminal and structural are extremely well documented and based solely upon the evidence that was present at the scenes.

seanmac45
07-03-2012, 04:44
To those reading this thread;

There was no conspiracy on the day of 9/11 besides the one perpetrated by 19 Islamic fanatics. None of the WTC site buildings was imploded by explosive demolition.

All of the damage and deaths were caused by fires resulting from two high speed jet airliner impacts.

I beseech you, the reader, to disavow the inane rantings of some seriously disturbed individuals who cannot deal with the realities of that day.

For those of us who were there it is a plain and simple truth; two airplanes flown into the Twin Towers caused devastation and death on an unimaginable scale.

Please do not let a few strange people besmirch the legacy of those who died on that day in the single most savage and dastardly terrorist attack of our time.

There were many small explosions that day. Within those buildings were flammables, fuel for backup generators, oxyacetylene tanks for welding and even some high explosives stored by such agencies as the US Secret Service and the ATF. We are talking about a building fire of size and intensity that had never been encountered before. Books are still being written in the engineering firefighting fields about the knowledge gained from this event.

NONE of the explosions therein were of the coordinated and structurally destructive type required for the planned demolition of a structure.

But they do make convenient fodder for the conspiracy theorists.
In order for conspiracy theorists to be correct then the following must be true.

The thousands of experienced and dedicated investigators from the FBI, ATF, USSS, NYPD, FDNY, CIA and quite a few other agencies are all;

SUPREMELY INCOMPETENT

OR

CO-CONSPIRATORS

Think about that please. While you consider it remember that MANY of those investigators lost family, friends, loved ones and co-workers in the attack.
Go with the physical evidence and the experience of those conducting the investigation.

Arquebus12
07-03-2012, 05:40
:yawn:

You're not so bored that you couldn't resist PMing me to say you're ignoring me... :rofl: and regarding that, your suspicions of who all may be in contact with me regarding this magnum opus to paranoia are way off base, as are your hackneyed attempts to assign symptoms of issues you project on to me (which are hilarious, by the way).

Yeah, six paragraphs saying the equivalent of "LALALALALALALALAICANTHEARYOUIMNOTLISTENING!!!" via PM means one thing, and that is that you have no spine. You talk a good game, but you can't back your talk. So you're either wrong, inane, or completely fulla crap. Most likely all three...

You can't ignore me, Elizabeth, not in an open forum of ideas and debate based on facts. You can't even back your assertions without getting personal, a tactic usually employed by PETA, Rosie O'Donnell, or the Million Moms.

You throw down the Gauntlet, you can expect your challenge will be met by me or any other number of like minds on this board. You don't like the responses you get? Then shut your damn mouth. Go peddle your delusions on another site.

Peace Warrior
07-03-2012, 09:17
You're not so bored that you couldn't resist PMing me to say you're ignoring me... :rofl: and regarding that, your suspicions of who all may be in contact with me regarding this magnum opus to paranoia are way off base, as are your hackneyed attempts to assign symptoms of issues you project on to me (which are hilarious, by the way).

Yeah, six paragraphs saying the equivalent of "LALALALALALALALAICANTHEARYOUIMNOTLISTENING!!!" via PM means one thing, and that is that you have no spine. You talk a good game, but you can't back your talk. So you're either wrong, inane, or completely fulla crap. Most likely all three...

You can't ignore me, Elizabeth, not in an open forum of ideas and debate based on facts. You can't even back your assertions without getting personal, a tactic usually employed by PETA, Rosie O'Donnell, or the Million Moms.

You throw down the Gauntlet, you can expect your challenge will be met by me or any other number of like minds on this board. You don't like the responses you get? Then shut your damn mouth. Go peddle your delusions on another site.
:yawn:

Peace Warrior
07-03-2012, 09:50
FACT: Nineteen Islamic Jihadists hijacked four commercial airliners with the intent of crashing them into pre-selected targets in a direct attack on the United States of America. ...
FACT: At least seven of the 19 people, on the list purported to have been the hijackers, were found alive and well.

To one of these people from the list, our government has profusely apologized, and IMO, rightly so.

ETA: None of the suspects' names, from the list of 19, appeared on any of the official passenger lists or manifests, but yet one of their passports was supposedly found near the impacts of 1 & 2 WTC buildings
FACT: ... Their movements within this and other countries have been documented and thoroughly investigated by U.S. and foreign intelligence agencies. Their trial runs on commercial flights prior to the actual attack have been well proven via videotapes, computer records, and eyewitness testimony of flight crews, ticketing agents and passengers. ...
FACT: The photos we were shown, of several 9-11 hijackers going through airport security were made while the alleged hijackers were in Oregon. No photos have been released that show ANY of the hijackers boarding planes in the East, at their respective airports of departure, the morning of 9-11.

FACT: ...Their identities and personal histories are rock solid. ...
FACT: No alleged hijackers' remains were ever located at the crash sites. Their identities are all in question as mentioned before, at least seven of the alleged hijackers were found alive and well AFTER 9-11.

The entire 9-11 event was most likely a PsyOp/false flag operation from start to finish. (http://groups.google.com/group/soc.college/msg/cdb2f90b15ea3233?dmode=source)

Arquebus12
07-03-2012, 09:58
:yawn:

You owe me $1000!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Peace Warrior
07-03-2012, 11:46
... FACT: Three of the airliners were successfully used to attack WTC1, WTC2 and the Pentagon. ...
FACT: Two aircraft impacted with 1 & 2 WTC buildings. It is impossible for the two aircraft that made impact with these two buildings to have been either AA Flight 11, or UA Flight 175.

With regards to AA Flight 11 hitting 2-WTC, the impossibility stems from both photos and videos of a plane, but clearly neither AA Flight 11, nor an AA aircraft, making impact with 2-WTC; additionally, with regards to UA Flight 175, recorded ACARS data from UA Flight 175 on the morning of 9-11, shows it to be "alive, well, and flying" outside of the New York City area AFTER THE KNOWN TIME OF IMPACT of an aircraft into 1-WTC.

There is no doubt that on 09-11-2001, two aircraft made impacts with 1 & 2 WTC buildings respectively, but the evidence shows conclusively that neither aircraft could have been AA Flight 11, nor UA Flight 175.


FACT: No photo or video of ANY aircraft, much less graphic material showing AA Flight 77, has ever been presented or made available to the public concerning what caused damage to the Pentagon on 9-11. (NOTE: Photos that have been released showing a spiraled "smoke trail," which seems is more indicative of a modern missile's rocket motor exhaust than a 757 engine after just receiving FOD from a collision with a street lamp.)
... FACT: The air traffic recordings, black boxes, and eyewitness accounts all cohesively document their terminal flight paths into the intended targets. ...

FACT: An eyewitness who watched the impact of the aircraft with 2-WTC, whom was also a Fox news reporter, reported live that it was not a commercial airliner. he further reported that on its side the aircraft had a round, blue insignia, but that it had no windows.

FACT: The ACARS messaging system (http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/decoders/acarsweb.pdf), utilized by commercial airliners since since the late 70's, indicates that UA Flight 175 was closer to Pittsburgh, Penn, than it was to New York, New York, roughly twenty minutes AFTER an aircraft was known to have made impact with 1-WTC.


This ACARS data does not indicate which specific aircraft made impact with 1-WTC, but it shows conclusively that it could NOT have been UA Flight 175. (http://pilotsfor911truth.org/ACARS-CONFIRMED-911-AIRCRAFT-AIRBORNE-LONG-AFTER-CRASH.html)

... FACT: ...One plane was successfully deterred from its’ target due to the heroic actions of the passengers on board. It plummeted straight down into a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. ...
FACT: UA Flight 93 was recognized by Air Traffic Control (hereafter: ATC) as airborne after the alleged impact time of 10:03AM.

ATC personnel understood and recognized UA Flight 93 as having an altitude due to it transponder being active. Professional pilots advise that transponders will NOT report an altitude to ATC after a crash, and especially not after a crash such as was supposed to have been sustained by UA Flight 93 in/near Shanksville.

ATC personnel further confirmed, through the use of radar, UA Flight 93's position as having been North-39 51, by West-78 46, and they did so AFTER the alleged 10:03AM time of impact. (NOTE: This longitude and latitude coordinate point is several miles beyond the alleged crash sight in Pennsylvania.)

countrygun
07-03-2012, 12:26
FACT: No alleged hijackers' remains were ever located at the crash sites. Their identities are all in question as mentioned before, at least seven of the alleged hijackers were found alive and well AFTER 9-11.



Not a "Fact" at all and an outright distortion of the obvious. I took the liberty, of peruseing some of the nutbar conspiracy sites that are obviously sites of worship to you. Some of the most unique fiction on the planet.

Just go to the simple Wiki site and read the story. Here are some highligts pertaining to you allegation.

"Wally Miller was involved in the investigation and identification of the

remains. In examining the wreckage, the only human body part he could see was

part of a backbone"

That was going to make identification difficult.

"Miller later found and identified 1,500 pieces of human remains totaling about 600 pounds (272 kg)"

"All the people on board the flight were identified by December 21."

"The remains of the hijackers, identified by the process of elimination, were turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation"



Now it is a total joke to try and make hay out of the fact that the hijaker's remains were identified by "process of elimination". How else were they going to do it?? Very few of ANY of the passengers were identified by any means short of DNA. They all were finally with the cooperation of their families and DNA samples.

4 people hijacked the plane and there were 4 "sets" of remains unidentified and no DNA samples or comparators from family members.

Now, just how in the heck you can spin all of that into your "conspiracy theory I do not know. The identified remains account for the known passengers and crew, and four "left over" account for the 4 hijackers.

Based on the real FACTS
I call your statement,

"No alleged hijackers' remains were ever located at the crash sites. Their identities are all in question as mentioned before"

a blatant lie, and the "Question" is about as significant as a question about their middle initials.

Arquebus12
07-03-2012, 12:39
Lately, I've been seeing a resurgence of decals posted publicly that state "9-11 was an inside job"...

Forgetting the grammar and syntax (or the subject, or the premise, specifically), why would somebody think that the best venue for revealing the truth the people is via a sticker on a stop sign near Amish country?

Things what make ya go "Hmmm...".

seanmac45
07-03-2012, 14:58
FACT: The World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks were the most diligently investigated crime scenes in modern history. Literally thousands of the best investigators in the world were involved. Tons of physical evidence was recovered, vouchered and tested. Everyone involved was highly motivated to see it through to a proper and just conclusion. No shortcuts were taken, no overtime caps were imposed, and no one was directing what the final conclusions were to be. The results of the WTC investigation, both criminal and structural are extremely well documented and based solely upon the evidence that was present at the scenes.


IN ORDER FOR THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TO BE CORRECT;

The thousands of experienced and dedicated investigators from the FBI, ATF, USSS, NYPD, FDNY, CIA and quite a few other agencies are all;

SUPREMELY INCOMPETENT

OR

CO-CONSPIRATORS

Think about that please. While you consider it remember that MANY of those investigators lost family, friends, loved ones and co-workers in the attack.
Go with the physical evidence and the experience of those conducting the investigation.

countrygun
07-03-2012, 15:57
FACT: The World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks were the most diligently investigated crime scenes in modern history. Literally thousands of the best investigators in the world were involved. Tons of physical evidence was recovered, vouchered and tested. Everyone involved was highly motivated to see it through to a proper and just conclusion. No shortcuts were taken, no overtime caps were imposed, and no one was directing what the final conclusions were to be. The results of the WTC investigation, both criminal and structural are extremely well documented and based solely upon the evidence that was present at the scenes.


IN ORDER FOR THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TO BE CORRECT;

The thousands of experienced and dedicated investigators from the FBI, ATF, USSS, NYPD, FDNY, CIA and quite a few other agencies are all;

SUPREMELY INCOMPETENT

OR

CO-CONSPIRATORS

Think about that please. While you consider it remember that MANY of those investigators lost family, friends, loved ones and co-workers in the attack.
Go with the physical evidence and the experience of those conducting the investigation.


And this^^^^^ Boys and Girls is the absolute truth. Anyone who claims it isn't is lying, either because of an unscrupulous agenda or mental illness.

Arquebus12
07-03-2012, 17:01
Emphasis on the mental illness...

G23Gen4TX
07-05-2012, 11:53
Emphasis on the mental illness...

You are insulting the mentally ill.

countrygun
07-05-2012, 13:39
You are insulting the mentally ill.


Indeed, I am certain that ther are some of the folks pushing this crap, that are just being dishonest, and merely faking the mental illness required to claim the Conspiracy theories are credible.

Peace Warrior
07-05-2012, 23:14
Not a "Fact" at all and an outright distortion of the obvious. I took the liberty, of peruseing some of the nutbar conspiracy sites that are obviously sites of worship to you. Some of the most unique fiction on the planet.

Just go to the simple Wiki site and read the story. Here are some highligts pertaining to you allegation.

"Wally Miller was involved in the investigation and identification of the

remains. In examining the wreckage, the only human body part he could see was

part of a backbone"

That was going to make identification difficult.

"Miller later found and identified 1,500 pieces of human remains totaling about 600 pounds (272 kg)"

"All the people on board the flight were identified by December 21."

"The remains of the hijackers, identified by the process of elimination, were turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation"



Now it is a total joke to try and make hay out of the fact that the hijaker's remains were identified by "process of elimination". How else were they going to do it?? Very few of ANY of the passengers were identified by any means short of DNA. They all were finally with the cooperation of their families and DNA samples.

4 people hijacked the plane and there were 4 "sets" of remains unidentified and no DNA samples or comparators from family members.

Now, just how in the heck you can spin all of that into your "conspiracy theory I do not know. The identified remains account for the known passengers and crew, and four "left over" account for the 4 hijackers.

Based on the real FACTS
I call your statement,

"No alleged hijackers' remains were ever located at the crash sites. Their identities are all in question as mentioned before"

a blatant lie, and the "Question" is about as significant as a question about their middle initials.
Hidden in obscurity is that you never mention the actual flight/plane/crash sight this information you're posting above is about. Is it just this one flight/plane/crash sight? If it is, then I'm right about the other three, or make that two.

Anyway, once you identify the correct flight/plane/crash sight you are referencing in post above, I'll be glad to address this simple slight of hand you are offering in order to avoid the FACT that the hijackers' remains were never actually identified.

G23Gen4TX
07-06-2012, 00:16
Hidden in obscurity is that you never mention the actual flight/plane/crash sight this information you're posting above is about. Is it just this one flight/plane/crash sight? If it is, then I'm right about the other three, or make that two.

Anyway, once you identify the correct flight/plane/crash sight you are referencing in post above, I'll be glad to address this simple slight of hand you are offering in order to avoid the FACT that the hijackers' remains were never actually identified.

Imagine you are on an airplane that is flying into a building at around 500mph. Not only that but you have a front row seat.

After the crash, fire, collapse of the building and several days of fire. How much of you do you think they will find?

And yet some people were identified.

Keep trying.

Peace Warrior
07-06-2012, 00:42
Imagine you are on an airplane that is flying into a building at around 500mph. Not only that but you have a front row seat.

After the crash, fire, collapse of the building and several days of fire. How much of you do you think they will find?

And yet some people were identified.

Keep trying.
All the passengers have been identified. The terrorists have NOT been identified. But now you're just straining at a knat gnat and swallowing a camel.

See, I do NOT have to prove who was or wasn't on board the panes. I don't even have to know where the planes are today. Heck, one or all of the planes, supposedly lost on 9-11, may be in 1200 feet of water off the East coast. My position does not need these things as my position is NOT the same as the government. Simply put, I don't have to defend their official story.

You and the official government story cover up are in agreement. Therefore, it is incumbent upon you to explain why the planes were flying AWAY from their supposed crash sights AFTER the time of impacts. How do you explain this FACT away?

Anyone who believes 19 terrorists, which at least 7 of these 19 terrorists are still alive and well, could fly 3 planes into buildings on 9-11 and cause one additional plane to crash into a field, after realizing and knowing that at least three (i.e., UA Flight 93; Shanksville, UA Flight 175; 1-WTC, & AA Flight 11; 2-WTC) of the four planes are documented, by ATC personnel, radar, and or the ACARS flight systems, to have still been flying after their supposed impact times is simply being "dumb on purpose."

For the record, IMHO, one who wants to be dumb on purpose has every right to be so, and to a degree I'll defend that one's right so to be, BUT, that one should not expect me to be dumb on purpose with 'em, which is what you anti-conspiracy kooks want.

I ain't buying the official story. Any rational, intelligent person couldn't buy such a foolish explanation in the face of so much contradictory evidence.

countrygun
07-06-2012, 01:05
Hidden in obscurity is that you never mention the actual flight/plane/crash sight this information you're posting above is about. Is it just this one flight/plane/crash sight? If it is, then I'm right about the other three, or make that two.

Anyway, once you identify the correct flight/plane/crash sight you are referencing in post above, I'll be glad to address this simple slight of hand you are offering in order to avoid the FACT that the hijackers' remains were never actually identified.

in the first place I was exposing a deliberate lie. There were four sets of remains left unidentified as to name, and there were four hijackers. You can't get around that.

Do you happen to have DNA samples you can send in to use as comparators for the 4 bags of what was left of the hijackers?

I am glad you chose to respond because it gives me the opportunity to say something I was waiting to.

You obviously think that the Government was capable of setting this whole frigging conspiracy up. They found people willing to die to carry it out, they planted explosives in a heavily used building with nobody noticing. They apparently found th hundreds of people, including the after event investigators, will to carry it out and keep quiet about it and or lie to cover it up,

but,

in all of that, with all the planning, lies, secrecy and murder, they couldn't come up with bodies or remains that THEY COULD IDENTIFY? Or they couldn't JUST LIE about identifying the remains? What, that would be going too far after murder on a grand scale? AND REMEMBER THIS WELL. the only reason you know that the remains weren't identified by name is because OF THE HONESTY OF THE PEOPLE DOING THE INVESTIGATION. They would have had to lie about everything else to make your theory work so I doubt whipping up some bodies or faking some ID would be undoable.get DNA to confirm.



"slight of hand"? It's all over your claims, and not done very well either.

Peace Warrior
07-06-2012, 01:55
in the first place I was exposing a deliberate lie. There were four sets of remains left unidentified as to name, and there were four hijackers. You can't get around that.

Do you happen to have DNA samples you can send in to use as comparators for the 4 bags of what was left of the hijackers?

I am glad you chose to respond because it gives me the opportunity to say something I was waiting to.

You obviously think that the Government was capable of setting this whole frigging conspiracy up. They found people willing to die to carry it out, they planted explosives in a heavily used building with nobody noticing. They apparently found th hundreds of people, including the after event investigators, will to carry it out and keep quiet about it and or lie to cover it up,

but,

in all of that, with all the planning, lies, secrecy and murder, they couldn't come up with bodies or remains that THEY COULD IDENTIFY? Or they couldn't JUST LIE about identifying the remains? What, that would be going too far after murder on a grand scale? AND REMEMBER THIS WELL. the only reason you know that the remains weren't identified by name is because OF THE HONESTY OF THE PEOPLE DOING THE INVESTIGATION. They would have had to lie about everything else to make your theory work so I doubt whipping up some bodies or faking some ID would be undoable.get DNA to confirm.



"slight of hand"? It's all over your claims, and not done very well either.
Let me make this an extremely simple question.

Which flight/plane/crash sight are you referring to in this post and the post previous?

For the second time, which one?



Waiting.....................:impatient:

Arquebus12
07-06-2012, 05:29
And I'm still waiting for you to name just two out of the thousands of experts you posited.

countrygun
07-06-2012, 12:21
Let me make this an extremely simple question.

Which flight/plane/crash sight are you referring to in this post and the post previous?

For the second time, which one?



Waiting.....................:impatient:


flight 93.

Arquebus12
07-06-2012, 15:03
tickticktickticktickticktick

countrygun
07-06-2012, 17:06
tickticktickticktickticktick


The best part is, to make it easy for him, my quote came directly from wikipedia. Now he is going to have to go after them for being part of the conspiracy.:rofl:


I will repost a part for clarity,


(from wiki)

"All the people on board the flight were identified by December 21."

"The remains of the hijackers, identified by the process of elimination, were turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation"



Now it is a total joke to try and make hay out of the fact that the hijaker's remains were identified by "process of elimination". How else were they going to do it?? Very few of ANY of the passengers were identified by any means short of DNA. They all were finally with the cooperation of their families and DNA samples.

4 people hijacked the plane and there were 4 "sets" of remains unidentified and no DNA samples or comparators from family members.

Now, just how in the heck you can spin all of that into your "conspiracy theory I do not know. The identified remains account for the known passengers and crew, and four "left over" account for the 4 hijackers.

Based on the real FACTS
I call your statement,

"No alleged hijackers' remains were ever located at the crash sites. Their identities are all in question as mentioned before"

a blatant lie,



and the "Question" is about as significant as a question about their middle initials.

Peace Warrior
07-07-2012, 06:56
flight 93.
Saeed al-Ghamdi is alive and well in the Middle East. Our government has apologized to him and his family. ETA: I just found out he was studying to be a pilot after 9-11.

How can it be possible he is still alive? Seeing how his was one of the passports that was listed as found at the crash sight in Pennsylvania.

Anyway, moot point and unnecessary question as UA Flight 93 was recognized by Air Traffic Control (hereafter: ATC) as airborne after the alleged impact time of 10:03AM.

ATC personnel understood and recognized UA Flight 93 as having an altitude due to its transponder being active. Professional pilots advise that transponders will NOT report an altitude to ATC after a crash, and especially not after a crash such as was supposed to have been sustained by UA Flight 93 in/near Shanksville, Penn.

ATC personnel further confirmed, through the use of radar, that UA Flight 93's position as having been North-39 51, by West-78 46, and they did so AFTER the alleged 10:03AM time of impact. (NOTE: This longitude and latitude coordinate point is several miles beyond the alleged crash sight in Pennsylvania.)

No, the entire story concerning the list of hijackers is just more stuff our government is lying about. You believe what you want, but I ain't buying it.

seanmac45
07-07-2012, 09:43
FACT: The World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks were the most diligently investigated crime scenes in modern history. Literally thousands of the best investigators in the world were involved. Tons of physical evidence was recovered, vouchered and tested. Everyone involved was highly motivated to see it through to a proper and just conclusion. No shortcuts were taken, no overtime caps were imposed, and no one was directing what the final conclusions were to be. The results of the WTC investigation, both criminal and structural are extremely well documented and based solely upon the evidence that was present at the scenes.


IN ORDER FOR THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TO BE CORRECT;

The thousands of experienced and dedicated investigators from the FBI, ATF, USSS, NYPD, FDNY, CIA and quite a few other agencies are all;

SUPREMELY INCOMPETENT

OR

CO-CONSPIRATORS

Think about that please. While you consider it remember that MANY of those investigators lost family, friends, loved ones and co-workers in the attack.
Go with the physical evidence and the experience of those conducting the investigation.

seanmac45
07-07-2012, 09:56
Who is Peace Warrior?

He/she is an anonymous internet poster who by his own admissions was not present at the WTC site during or after the attack.

He acknowledges not having been a part of the investigation.

He admits that all of his theories stem from his extensive watching of internet conspiracy theorist websites.

He admits having no engineering or law enforcement background.

However, despite all of that he presents himself as an expert and demands that you believe his unfounded theories and distorted half truths.

Who am I? A retired Lieutenant of the NYPD. I was present at the WTC during the attacks and for four months afterwards at both the WTC and the landfill where subsequent evidence recovery was conducted upon the debris that had been removed off-site.

I worked the investigation intimately and along with the FBI and ATF. I was present at numerous briefings in the weeks after the event which detailed the status of the ongoing investigation and sought input from those of us working the sites.

I recovered evidence, both physical as well as human remains.

I DO NOT ASK THAT YOU BELIEVE ME.

I do, however, ask that you trust in the physical evidence and the intensity of the investigation conducted.

Don't put your trust and faith in a nameless internet poster whose knowledge is derived solely from internet conspiracy websites.

Base your judgements on the evidence recovered and the timelines of the event as they have been established through the detailed and thorough investigations that were conducted by professionals. Men and women who were deeply invested in the case and who had no agenda other than to find the TRUTH. People who swore oaths to uphold and defend the constitution and to serve and protect the American public.

That's who I request the readers put their faith in and trust.

The decision is up to you.

Arquebus12
07-07-2012, 11:03
Did not know that about you, Sean... hat's off to you for your efforts, and I'm sorry for the pain you've had to endure because of those same attacks.

I have a hobby of sorts, wherein I try to identify the motivations for peoples' actions. I'm no psychiatrist, but I do enjoy learning how things work. This could include sub-atomic particles, fuel injection systems, parliamentary procedures, cooking, archery, music, etc, but most especially people and societies. It's never been a waste of time, that's certain, although some of it could have certainly been spent doing more productive things.

That said, when I look at people like Peace Warrior, and focus on the motivations of someone like him, it's too easy to label him as nuts or write him off as crazy, because it doesn't address root causes. With him, and many others just like him, it's almost universally an ego driven response, and the means to that end are self-justifying.

By that, I mean that by pointing out "It's a conspiracy", he does several things at once: He isolates himself from the mainstream, most likely for the attention it results in him getting. He also further distances himself by implying that "He's smarter than the rest", because only he and a few other perceptive types are capable of being able to see past the illusions and/or cover ups that have been put in place. There's a heroic aspect to it, also, in that he's trying to tear down this curtain of prevarications, and reveal to the rest of the world "the truth". In his mind, he'll be praised for exposing the falsehoods, and for delivering the people out of darkness. Even this guy's handle, Peace Warrior, has a romantic-heroic connotation to it, an indicator of the source of his motivations.

The self-perpetuation comes in the form of rejection of his theories; by being dismissed by non-conspiricists, it's evidence showing that the accuser is either too stupid or part of the conspiracy itself. Again, he's smart enough to see past this ruse. That's the fun part of it.

And he has to assume that, because the alternative is to admit that he's wrong, and has in fact been looking very foolish for a very long time as a result (the distinctly non-fun part). That's something that's difficult for a healthy minded person to reconcile, and impossible for someone who has too much invested (literally and figuratively) in this particular pursuit. And the part of the psyche that would take the biggest hit is also the part that NEEDS for a conspiracy to be true, that being the ego. He'd have to accept the fact that he was wrong, and simultaneously re-enter mainstream thinking while appearing foolish in the eyes of all those he deliberately contravened with his theories.

Self righteousness, especially when it's expressed as "You ain't fooling ME...!" is powerful medicine, and is overly abused. The cure is rational thought via discipline and education, and identifying the actual motivation for someone to go deliberately against the grain. I'm all for rebellion, it's mind expanding, and often makes for great advances in societies. It's also a complete waste of time more often than not, but it does teach the rebel the reasoning behind whatever it is that he's rebelling against.

countrygun
07-07-2012, 12:01
senamac, you have little to worry about IMO. The division has alreadybeen made between those who know reality when they see it and those who refuse to admit it and cling to wild-eyed theories. The latter group are basically running around trying to reassure each other by being annoying on legitimate forums when they get a little bored within their own circle-jerk.

Many people have enough experience to understand the confusion that takes place around the events as they unfold. I have had 2 friends involved in "incidents" that garnered national publicity, one survived, one did not. There were conflicting reports and confusion on the ground, and I was involved on the ground in one incident (not knowing that my friend was aboard) which ironically involved a passenger jet.

Too many people have never really had to do "the job" at an accident scene. They watch CSI

"Look, there is a fingernail clipping, bag it. We'll put it in the mass speculum electorstatic colon irrigator, and identify who it belonged to. By the end of the show we will know their name, collar size, credit rating and average seminal output of the suspect."

The people who expect the real world to work that way have never been up to their elbows in things never to be described. A friend of mine calls them "Cackling "shine"birds" . (Of course I edited in "shine" for something else.)

There are those who don't want to face the reality, that a small group of nutjobs could pull this off. My experience, that I outlined, tells me it is exactly what happened. Unfortunately for those folks having a hard time accepting that, there are those of petty lives that inflate themselves with claims that THEY in their great wisdom have DIVINED the truth, IT IS ALL A CONSPIRACY they announce, as the confused, and shocked gather around them and their soap box.

RichardB
07-09-2012, 11:29
Too often the truth is obvious and simple.

CLoft239
08-08-2012, 07:18
IN ORDER FOR THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TO BE CORRECT;

The thousands of experienced and dedicated investigators from the FBI, ATF, USSS, NYPD, FDNY, CIA and quite a few other agencies are all;

SUPREMELY INCOMPETENT

OR

CO-CONSPIRATORS

Think about that please. While you consider it remember that MANY of those investigators lost family, friends, loved ones and co-workers in the attack.
Go with the physical evidence and the experience of those conducting the investigation.

^ this, this, THIS

Supporting the conspiracy theory is just re-victimizing the victims, and their loved ones. And on top of that, it's insinuating that mothers/fathers/brothers/sisters/sons/daughters etc. all knowingly and willingly kept quite and allowed their mothers/fathers/brothers/sisters/sons/daughters etc. to die, and then kept quiet about the "truth" on behalf of the government.

I don't like our government. I don't support our government, and I do not approve of what it's become. I also know that our government is capable of committing atrocious acts.

BUT I do have enough faith in this (MY) country's citizens to KNOW that they would not willingly sacrifice their own personal loved ones, their own flesh and blood, by the thousands, for a government conspiracy.

It is also interesting, PW, that you haven't even so much as acknowledged Sean's existence in this thread...

Sent from the Titanic. I named my phone "The Titanic" so when I plug it into the computer it says "The Titanic is syncing".

G-19
08-25-2012, 18:45
If nothing else the conspiracy nuts make for some entertaining reading. Shows just how out of touch with reality some of the people in this counrty are, kind of scary.

Kingarthurhk
08-26-2012, 09:39
Conspiracy theorists are just people who desperately want attention and to find a meaning and point to their existance. Taking normal things and turning and then agrandizing them makes them feel important.

countrygun
08-26-2012, 10:03
Conspiracy theorists are just people who desperately want attention and to find a meaning and point to their existance. Taking normal things and turning and then agrandizing them makes them feel important.


I have often wondered, "If the conspiracy was so vast as required, wouldn't they be terrified to mention that they figured it out?"

Kingarthurhk
08-26-2012, 10:10
I have often wondered, "If the conspiracy was so vast as required, wouldn't they be terrified to mention that they figured it out?"

True.

nraman
09-28-2012, 21:32
It is easy to prove that the planes that crashed are indeed the ones from the two airlines.
There are only so many 757s and 767s produced, Boeing knows where every single one of them is. (Boeing a co conspirator?)
Airliners have a very large number of serialized parts and detailed records are kept. Not only do they know from the part numbers which plane they came from, they also know every plane they have been installed and removed from.
Engine manufacturers, component manufacturers, all keep records. Unless of course everybody is part of the conspiracy.
The only question I might have is whether any intelligence services knew or suspected anything. Fox News had an article in the days following 911 claiming that there were some people that might have known.
I saw on the news a long time ago a one story shopping center (clothes, shoes etc) that caught fire. After the fire was put out you could see the I beams from the roof sagging, looking like bananas and that was from clothes and everyday items that burned, not high BTU jet fuel. If that building was multistory it would have collapsed under its own weight.
The second building that got hit was the first to collapse. IMO it went down first because it was hit lower and there was more weight above the impact area. The second building to collapse would have probably lasted a bit longer if it wasn't for the ground vibrations from the first collapse.
YMMV

MaxxAction
09-29-2012, 07:29
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-explosive-evidence-experts-speak-out/

It is interesting that one thing no one has mentioned yet that where that whatever it was that hit the pentagon hit was the computer room. The back up site for pentagon data was in wtc7. One day before 9/11 happened, Rumsfeld held a press conference and announced that there was a couple trillion dollars missing from the pentagon budget over the past so many years that they couldn't account for. And magically, all evidence of where it might have went disappeared at both the pentagon and wtc7. That is some coincidence! Especially considering that bldg 7 was. Barely touched and was on fire inside before the second plane ever hit.

G23Gen4TX
09-30-2012, 21:43
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-explosive-evidence-experts-speak-out/

It is interesting that one thing no one has mentioned yet that where that whatever it was that hit the pentagon hit was the computer room. The back up site for pentagon data was in wtc7. One day before 9/11 happened, Rumsfeld held a press conference and announced that there was a couple trillion dollars missing from the pentagon budget over the past so many years that they couldn't account for. And magically, all evidence of where it might have went disappeared at both the pentagon and wtc7. That is some coincidence! Especially considering that bldg 7 was. Barely touched and was on fire inside before the second plane ever hit.

Lol. Well, at least I never heard this one yet.

RichardB
10-01-2012, 07:27
Please post a link to the Rumsfeld press conference. Since the Republicans were in charge CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, the New York Times would have been all over that story in the early morning news before the planes started impacting. I then worked for the DoD and don't remember reading about that briefing on my office PC first thing that morning.

Since my computer continued to work that day the WTC back up center story seems far fetched. There may have been lines to the government offices in the WTC but nothing more significant in a public non secure building. (I know there is no security against a 747.)

PT Barnum of "There's a sucker born every minute" fame would have loved the internet.:rofl:

series1811
10-01-2012, 07:33
I'll put it this way.

Conspiracy nuts put too much stock in what they see instead of what they don't see.

I have a friend who has been an airline pilot for twenty years. I asked him what they biggest sign of an aircraft emergency was. He said most passengers never realize when an aircraft is really in trouble (and when you hit turbulence is almost never that time).

He says the best sign is when you are getting out of the plane and the pilots door is still shut. He said that is because they are trying to pull the seat covers out of their asses where they got sucked up because they were so scared. :supergrin:

It's what you don't see that matters. :)

MaxxAction
10-01-2012, 07:35
Please post a link to the Rumsfeld press conference. Since the Republicans were in charge CNN, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, the New York Times would have been all over that story in the early morning news before the planes started impacting. I then worked for the DoD and don't remember reading about that briefing on my office PC first thing that morning.

Since my computer continued to work that day the WTC back up center story seems far fetched. There may have been lines to the government offices in the WTC but nothing more significant in a public non secure building. (I know there is no security against a 747.)

PT Barnum of "There's a sucker born every minute" fame would have loved the internet.:rofl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kpWqdPMjmo

yep....

lots of suckers out there.

RichardB
10-01-2012, 09:19
Trying to tie "routine" issues with big budget government organizations to the events of 9/11 is a stretch.

If you will do some research of your own, this was also discussed before 9/10/01 and over the course of at least of half dozen presidents' administrations.

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are condemned.......to be behind the power curve.

MaxxAction
10-01-2012, 09:55
Trying to tie "routine" issues with big budget government organizations to the events of 9/11 is a stretch.

If you will do some research of your own, this was also discussed before 9/10/01 and over the course of at least of half dozen presidents' administrations.

Those who do not learn the lessons of history are condemned.......to be behind the power curve.

Richard...

you and I are both entitled to believe what we want to. But to me, there is just way too much that doesnt add up to believe the official version.

Did you know that ALL of the video camera's (85 cameras on the pentagon) tapes were confiscated by the FBI within hours of the event, and it took 5years of lawsuits to get the 5 second video that they hold up as evidence of a "plane" striking the pentagon.

Norman Mineta, the transportation seceratary under bush was in the bunker with Dick Cheney and hear cheney continue the order that fighter jets "stand down" when the "plane" was 10 miles out. And yet, mineta was not asked to testify for the nine eleven commission, and the video of his appearance before congress has since been stricken from the record.

Numerous pilots have tried on training simulators to replicate the feat of flying an airliner at 575 mph (which was 110 knots over the planes max operating speed) into a building that low and no one has been able to replicate it?

There were no engines, no fuselage, no bodies, no luggage, seats, tail section, nothing that would indicate a boeing airliner had hit the pentagon. It vaporized? What? Time jump? Was the flux capacitor ever found?

The same thing in the field in pennsylvania. No airplane parts, blood, bodies or body parts, nothing. Same story? they all vaporized?

Really? And those who doubt the official version of events are kooks and fools? Right....

airmotive
10-01-2012, 11:32
This crap again?:faint:

Richard...

Numerous pilots have tried on training simulators to replicate the feat of flying an airliner at 575 mph (which was 110 knots over the planes max operating speed) into a building that low and no one has been able to replicate it?
Not true.

There were no engines, no fuselage, no bodies, no luggage, seats, tail section, nothing that would indicate a boeing airliner had hit the pentagon. It vaporized? What? Time jump? Was the flux capacitor ever found?
Absolutely Not true.

The same thing in the field in pennsylvania. No airplane parts, blood, bodies or body parts, nothing. Same story? they all vaporized?
Utterly, completely and demonstratably not true.

Really? And those who doubt the official version of events are kooks and fools? Right....

countrygun
10-01-2012, 13:27
Richard...

The same thing in the field in pennsylvania. No airplane parts, blood, bodies or body parts, nothing. Same story? they all vaporized?

....

That is a flat-out lie

Remains have been identified for every person on that flight, some through DNA. Four sets of remains are still unidentified which corresponds to the number of hijackers and the lack of DNA exemplars (obviously) for them.

seanmac45
10-01-2012, 14:47
FACT: The World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks were the most diligently investigated crime scenes in modern history. Literally thousands of the best investigators in the world were involved. Tons of physical evidence was recovered, vouchered and tested. Everyone involved was highly motivated to see it through to a proper and just conclusion. No shortcuts were taken, no overtime caps were imposed, and no one was directing what the final conclusions were to be. The results of the WTC investigation, both criminal and structural are extremely well documented and based solely upon the evidence that was present at the scenes.


IN ORDER FOR THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TO BE CORRECT;

The thousands of experienced and dedicated investigators from the FBI, ATF, USSS, NYPD, FDNY, CIA and quite a few other agencies are all;

SUPREMELY INCOMPETENT

OR

CO-CONSPIRATORS

Think about that please. While you consider it remember that MANY of those investigators lost family, friends, loved ones and co-workers in the attack.
Go with the physical evidence and the experience of those conducting the investigation.

MaxxAction
10-01-2012, 17:57
That is a flat-out lie

Remains have been identified for every person on that flight, some through DNA. Four sets of remains are still unidentified which corresponds to the number of hijackers and the lack of DNA exemplars (obviously) for them.

In a 2005 interview the County Coroner, Wallace miller stated that they had only recovered an approximate 8% of the remains had ever been found, some of them miles from the "crash site."

What is really interesting to me is that debris was spread over 10 miles, and the debris file goes from east to west, not west to east Headed for the Capitol as the official story claims.

State police major Szupinka said one of the engines was found complete six or seven hundred yards away, to the west of the"crash site". How did one engine survive intact when the other apparently disintegrated into mostly tiny pieces, or bury itself into the loose top soil?

How does a 130 ton 155 foot long airplane with a wingspan of a hundred and twenty feet, a tail that Stands 43 feet high make a hole that is 6 feet deep, and 15 feet wide with "wing scars" in the ground extending out only 70 feet in width?

All of the first eyewitnesses at eh crash sigh said there was "nothing there" but what appeared to be smoldering trash.

How is it in one instance, the towers, there was so much fuel that it Allegedly melted steel, but almost immediately after impact, there was no fire at the 93 crash sight. A large plume of brownish looking smoke, not the huge billowing clouds of black smoke that accompanies jet fuel burning in open air?

RichardB
10-01-2012, 21:00
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/09/17/reno-air-races-crash/#/10

countrygun
10-01-2012, 21:05
Wally Miller was involved in the investigation and identification of the remains. In examining the wreckage, the only human body part he could see was
part of a backbone

Miller later found and identified 1,500 pieces of human remains totaling about 600 pounds (272 kg), or eight percent of the total. The rest of the remains were consumed by the impact

Investigators identified four victims by September 22 and eleven by September 24. They identified another by September 29.Thirty-four passengers were identified by October 27

All the people on board the flight were identified by December 21.

Human remains were so fragmented that investigators could not determine whether any victims were dead before the plane crashed. Death certificates for the 40 victims listed the cause of death as homicide and listed the cause of death for the four hijackers as suicide

The remains and personal effects of the victims were returned to the families The remains of the hijackers, identified by the process of elimination, were turned over to the FBI as evidence.

Peace Warrior
10-02-2012, 00:32
Richard...

you and I are both entitled to believe what we want to. But to me, there is just way too much that doesnt add up to believe the official version. ...
MA,

Some folks have to be "dumb on purpose." I applaud your efforts, but just as their are some very stubborn conspiracy kooks, nuts, and flakes in the world, their are also some very stubborn ANTI-conspiracy kooks, nuts, and flakes as well. Seem the numbers are equal on both sides.

The dogged act of their mental will to keep insisting that all is well, all is well, and doing so in the face of incontrovertible evidence has a thread of cognitive dissonance directly woven throughout their psyche.


I'm gonna review the video you posted. Thanks.

OctoberRust
10-02-2012, 06:44
So you're an anti-conspiracy nut!!!
But:

It's not because you believe that oswald was the only shooter.

It's not because you believe that there is no such organization as Bildeberger's.

It's not because you believe that there is no such organization as the CFR.

It's not because you believe that only 19 terrorists brought down 1, 2, & 7 WTC skyscrapers on 09-11-2001.

It's not because you believe that climate change is real and the world is heating up at an alarming rate.
Oh no, in fact, one reason you're an anti-conspiracy nut is because you are too wise, or too smart, or too intelligent or just plain too much yourself to ever get past your own cognitive dissonance on certain matters.

Another reason you're an anti-conspiracy nut is because your own, personal opinion of someone tends to lead you to disbelieve anything they might support or put forth on a controversial issue. ETA: Your opinion of another may be due to adopting the opinion of the herd before you got to know that person for yourself.

However, the primary, number one reason you're an anti-conspiracy nut is because you cannot handle the ridicule of yourself or your opinions on what are known as controversial matters. Your perception of "their normal" is invaluable to you as far as the way others see or think of you.

Even if the crowd is wrong, or they have a weak foundation for their beliefs, and even if you know this deep down, you still can't handle not being an accepted member of those you admire, respect, or desire to be part of their group. You have to be part of what you perceive to be the "in crowd." You cannot live outside of the approval of those around you and being accepted as part of their herd. So, instead of rationally and logically thinking things out for yourself, you default to the herd mentality and eschew anything the herd doesn't approve of readily.

This is what makes you an anti-conspiracy nut and kook. You're wrong, but you have what you need the most, which is the approval of the crowd.

Man, I wish I was as smart as you, to see the TRUTH! All of us that don't fall for those conspiracy theories are just soooo blind though. :rofl::cool::cool:



http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sheeple.png

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000276684/polls_its_a_conspiracy_5021_260539_answer_4_xlarge.jpeg

OctoberRust
10-02-2012, 06:47
Guys!!!! The titanic is a conspiracy too.


I mean steel > ice. And the titanic still sunk!

Still not convinced?!!?!?! The vikings used wooden ships, and they never sunk! :rofl:

Also, ice melts faster than steel. I set this experiment up in my house. I used a bowl of metal and a bowl of ice at room temperature. The ice completely melted, while the bowl of steel barely melted at all! :rofl:


So the real question is, who sunk the ships? Atheists? Terrorists? Gays? I don't know, but I'm convinced that someone did it, until proven otherwise!

If you want to see the experiment just go on youtube and search for "unfastened coins" :rofl::rofl:

Peace Warrior
10-02-2012, 09:31
Man, I wish I was as smart as you, to see the TRUTH! ...Wrong IP, totally apologize.

mea culpa. I not real good as this computering stuff. [/jethro]

airmotive
10-02-2012, 09:32
"Jack, pick up sweetie, can you hear me? Okay. I just want to tell you, there's a little problem with the plane. I'm fine. I'm totally fine. I just want to tell you how much I love you. I’m comfortable and I’m okay…for now. Just a little problem. So I just love you. Please tell my family I love them too. Bye, honey."

~Lauren Grandcolas.
Passenger on flight 93.
Message left for her husband on their home answering machine.
Lauren was two months pregnant with their first child on 9/11.

Have all the fun you want with that one, con-nuts.
I hope one day you get to meet her face-to-face in the next life and have to explain your actions to her here in this life.
Here's who to look for:
http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/a630_lauren_grandcolas_2050081722-19298.jpg

Peace Warrior
10-02-2012, 09:44
Guys!!!! The titanic is a conspiracy too.


I mean steel > ice. And the titanic still sunk!

Still not convinced?!!?!?! The vikings used wooden ships, and they never sunk! :rofl:

Also, ice melts faster than steel. I set this experiment up in my house. I used a bowl of metal and a bowl of ice at room temperature. The ice completely melted, while the bowl of steel barely melted at all! :rofl:


So the real question is, who sunk the ships? Atheists? Terrorists? Gays? I don't know, but I'm convinced that someone did it, until proven otherwise!

If you want to see the experiment just go on youtube and search for "unfastened coins" :rofl::rofl:
A word to the wise just in case you didn't know it: Two people are not allowed to share the same username at GT.

Peace Warrior
10-02-2012, 09:55
That is a flat-out lie

Remains have been identified for every person on that flight, some through DNA. Four sets of remains are still unidentified which corresponds to the number of hijackers and the lack of DNA exemplars (obviously) for them.
If seven hijackers were found to be alive and well AFTER 09-11-2001, wouldn't it be prudent to not identify ANY of the hijackers remains with regards to DNA?

I mean after all, to claim you've identified a speck of bone to a DNA certainty belongs to said, Joe Blow Terrorist, and then all the sudden said, Joe Blow Terrorist, shows up on a beach in Miami with his family in tow, such an occurrence make your entire "investigation," as far as DNA, a total crock now wouldn't it?

No, the prudent thing to do, AFTER THE FACT THAT AT LEAST SEVEN OF THE TERRORISTS WERE FOUND TO BE A LIVE AND WELL FOLLOWING 09-11-2001, is to claim, "Here are four different DNA profiles, which do not matched anyone else on the plane's manifest. Yeah, these have to belong to the terrorists on the flight."


Unfortunately, if they did identify the DNA profiles for the hijackers and were later found to be wrong, this fact would also belie the DNA certain identification of the passengers and crew members, which would really blow the lid of the entire cover up; so understanding, some people have worked hard to eviscerate, or cremate if you will, all the inherent and intrinsic human qualities when it comes to the ability to care for others in this world.

..

Peace Warrior
10-02-2012, 09:58
I have often wondered, "If the conspiracy was so vast as required, wouldn't they be terrified to mention that they figured it out?"
Only if they live and think like you.

seanmac45
10-02-2012, 11:42
Who is Peace Warrior?

He/she is an anonymous internet poster who by his own admissions was not present at the WTC site during or after the attack.

He acknowledges not having been a part of the investigation.

He admits that all of his theories stem from his extensive watching of internet conspiracy theorist websites.

He admits having no engineering or law enforcement background.

However, despite all of that he presents himself as an expert and demands that you believe his unfounded theories and distorted half truths.

Who am I? A retired Lieutenant of the NYPD. I was present at the WTC during the attacks and for four months afterwards at both the WTC and the landfill where subsequent evidence recovery was conducted upon the debris that had been removed off-site.

I worked the investigation intimately and along with the FBI and ATF. I was present at numerous briefings in the weeks after the event which detailed the status of the ongoing investigation and sought input from those of us working the sites.

I recovered evidence, both physical as well as human remains.

I DO NOT ASK THAT YOU BELIEVE ME.

I do, however, ask that you trust in the physical evidence and the intensity of the investigation conducted.

Don't put your trust and faith in a nameless internet poster whose knowledge is derived solely from internet conspiracy websites.

Base your judgements on the evidence recovered and the timelines of the event as they have been established through the detailed and thorough investigations that were conducted by professionals. Men and women who were deeply invested in the case and who had no agenda other than to find the TRUTH. People who swore oaths to uphold and defend the constitution and to serve and protect the American public.

That's who I request the readers put their faith in and trust.

The decision is up to you.

Peace Warrior
10-02-2012, 12:08
Who is Peace Warrior?

He/she is an anonymous internet poster who by his own admissions was not present at the WTC site during or after the attack. True

He acknowledges not having been a part of the investigation. True

He admits that all of his theories stem from his extensive watching of internet conspiracy theorist websites. False

He admits having no engineering or law enforcement background. True, my understanding is derived from twenty plus years of structural concrete construction, which was primarily in the areas of both bridge and elevated roadway projects.

However, despite all of that he presents himself as an expert and demands that you believe his unfounded theories and distorted half truths. False I have repeatedly stated that people can believe what they want, but I am not buying the official cover up story.

Who am I? A retired Lieutenant of the NYPD. I was present at the WTC during the attacks and for four months afterwards at both the WTC and the landfill where subsequent evidence recovery was conducted upon the debris that had been removed off-site. This may be/probably is true, but it in no way invalidates the video and audio evidence made on 09-11-2001, which categorically proves beyond all doubt that numerous explosions occurred in all three WTC buildings that came down that day.

I worked the investigation intimately and along with the FBI and ATF. I was present at numerous briefings in the weeks after the event which detailed the status of the ongoing investigation and sought input from those of us working the sites. This may be/probably is true, but it in no way invalidates the video and audio evidence made on 09-11-2001, which categorically proves beyond all doubt that numerous explosions occurred in all three WTC buildings that came down that day.

I recovered evidence, both physical as well as human remains. This may be/probably is true, but it in no way invalidates the video and audio evidence made on 09-11-2001, which categorically proves beyond all doubt that numerous explosions occurred in all three WTC buildings that came down that day.

I DO NOT ASK THAT YOU BELIEVE ME. No instead, seanmac just incessantly post the same verbiage over and over again in a attempt to "over-post," or numerically outpost, those of us who are seeking the truth about what occurred on 09-11-2001.

I do, however, ask that you trust in the physical evidence And how!!! and the intensity of the investigation conducted. This too as far as investigations, but not so much the key-holed conclusions of specific investigators, which these created conclusions based more so on agenda rather than the fact finding efforts of others.

Don't put your trust and faith in a nameless internet poster whose knowledge is derived solely from internet conspiracy websites. I completely agree and I do not abide or oblige fruit cake conspiracy sites. There are some websites that want people to believe that holograms were used to cover the fact that missiles were launched into the WTC buildings. So knowing, I stick with sites like Pilots for 911 Truth (http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/) and or Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, (http://www.ae911truth.org/) which have professionals putting their names to the claims that the events of 09-11-2001 do not fit the official government cover story.

Base your judgements on the evidence recovered and the timelines of the event as they have been established through the detailed and thorough investigations that were conducted by professionals. Correct, but do not believe the conclusions of those that had an agenda to oblige. Men and women who were deeply invested in the case and who had no agenda other than to find the TRUTH. They did a fantastic job, but unfortunately, their finding of fact was corrupted when others created the conclusions for their hard work. People who swore oaths to uphold and defend the constitution and to serve and protect the American public.

That's who I request the readers put their faith in and trust. Completely agree, but they are not the ones who created, crafted, and finalized the asinine conclusions made by entities such as NIST or Popular Mechanics.

The decision is up to you.
Fixed it for ya!


Great advice! The decision is ultimately up to the reader.



To the reader I would advise: Be discriminant. Exercise critical reflection, logic, reason and fact based thinking. Then decide for yourself if the official cover up story from the dot.gubmint holds water or not.

countrygun
10-02-2012, 14:19
I mean after all, to claim you've identified a speck of bone to a DNA certainty belongs to said, Joe Blow Terrorist, and then all the sudden said, Joe Blow Terrorist, shows up on a beach in Miami with his family in tow, such an occurrence make your entire "investigation," as far as DNA, a total crock now wouldn't it?

..

Step off the Disorient Express at the next stop.

The remains of all of the passengers were identified, everyone on the flight manifest.

There were four sets of remains left. Gee a coincidence that the passengers on their cell phones reported 4 hijackers?

Is it surprising to you that the 4 terrorists didn't give DNA samples to the "International Terrorist DNA Collectors Club" before they left on their mission?

You are a fracking loon. You didn't get enough attention, or the right kind, as a child and now you seek any kind of attention you can get to make yourself feel "special"

seanmac45
10-02-2012, 14:26
Fixed it for ya!


Great advice! The decision is ultimately up to the reader.



To the reader I would advise: Be discriminant. Exercise critical reflection, logic, reason and fact based thinking. Then decide for yourself if the official cover up story from the dot.gubmint holds water or not.

The OFFICIAL FINDINGS of the investigation were promulgated by men and women who had a vested interest in reporting the truth.

Unfortunately for you most readers have a higher IQ than a turnip. They will see your delusional nonsense for what it is.:rofl::rofl::wavey:

seanmac45
10-02-2012, 14:27
Who is Peace Warrior?

He/she is an anonymous internet poster who by his own admissions was not present at the WTC site during or after the attack.

He acknowledges not having been a part of the investigation.

He admits that all of his theories stem from his extensive watching of internet conspiracy theorist websites.

He admits having no engineering or law enforcement background.

However, despite all of that he presents himself as an expert and demands that you believe his unfounded theories and distorted half truths.

Who am I? A retired Lieutenant of the NYPD. I was present at the WTC during the attacks and for four months afterwards at both the WTC and the landfill where subsequent evidence recovery was conducted upon the debris that had been removed off-site.

I worked the investigation intimately and along with the FBI and ATF. I was present at numerous briefings in the weeks after the event which detailed the status of the ongoing investigation and sought input from those of us working the sites.

I recovered evidence, both physical as well as human remains.

I DO NOT ASK THAT YOU BELIEVE ME.

I do, however, ask that you trust in the physical evidence and the intensity of the investigation conducted.

Don't put your trust and faith in a nameless internet poster whose knowledge is derived solely from internet conspiracy websites.

Base your judgements on the evidence recovered and the timelines of the event as they have been established through the detailed and thorough investigations that were conducted by professionals. Men and women who were deeply invested in the case and who had no agenda other than to find the TRUTH. People who swore oaths to uphold and defend the constitution and to serve and protect the American public.

That's who I request the readers put their faith in and trust.

The decision is up to you.

I like it better without all the red drivel.

Peace Warrior
10-02-2012, 16:01
Step off the Disorient Express at the next stop.

The remains of all of the passengers were identified, everyone on the flight manifest.

There were four sets of remains left. Gee a coincidence that the passengers on their cell phones reported 4 hijackers?

Is it surprising to you that the 4 terrorists didn't give DNA samples to the "International Terrorist DNA Collectors Club" before they left on their mission? ...
What is more surprising is the fact that no one has been allowed to access to those supposed four DNA samples that were left. Just pretending they exists is not the same as allowing everyone to see they exists.

... You are a fracking loon. You didn't get enough attention, or the right kind, as a child and now you seek any kind of attention you can get to make yourself feel "special"
Project much? :whistling: :cool:

Peace Warrior
10-02-2012, 16:03
The OFFICIAL FINDINGS of the investigation were promulgated by men and women who had a vested interest in reporting the truth.

Unfortunately for you most readers have a higher IQ than a turnip. They will see your delusional nonsense for what it is.:rofl::rofl::wavey:
Please elaborate on all the truth that was reported...

Peace Warrior
10-02-2012, 16:05
I have often wondered, "If the conspiracy was so vast as required, wouldn't they be terrified to mention that they figured it out?"
The answer is yes for those others that live or think as cowardly as you do as well as those that agree with the same supposition(s).

countrygun
10-02-2012, 16:35
The answer is yes for those others that live or think as cowardly as you do as well as those that agree with the same supposition(s).


You are so goofy you are just a harmless jester.

Let me guess, you are "The shinning knight of truth, un afraid of anything" and those that don't believe your screball theories are either fools, cowards, or part of the conspiracy.

Just keep feeding your delusions. You are a legend in your own mind.

OctoberRust
10-02-2012, 16:47
Spread the word guys!1!!!!! Titanic was a conspiracy! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


Unfastened Coins: Titanic Conspiracy - YouTube

OctoberRust
10-02-2012, 16:48
A word to the wise just in case you didn't know it: Two people are not allowed to share the same username at GT.


what are you talking about? :dunno:I only use this account. Are you implying someone hacked my account?