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DOC44
06-28-2012, 08:09
mandate UNCONSTITUTIONAL

now some are saying that the mandate will survive as a tax

Doc44

Sam Spade
06-28-2012, 08:11
Damn, you quick. Did you type in advance and just have your finger hovering over "submit"?

Sam Spade
06-28-2012, 08:13
Confusion in the press. This is Coooool.

evlbruce
06-28-2012, 08:13
And... Roberts is shown for the mush he is.

Thanks Dubyah!

Goaltender66
06-28-2012, 08:14
It's not allowed under the commerce clause, but it is under the taxing power. Mandate survives, as does the rest of ACA.

MLM
06-28-2012, 08:15
Scotusblog is showing the ACA is upheld for the most part

Sam Spade
06-28-2012, 08:16
Unconstitutional under commerce clause, unconstitutional under necessary and proper, now ABC is moving their lips as they read whether or not it's a tax.

callihan_44
06-28-2012, 08:18
glenn beck reporting it ALL remaining :shocked:

sheriff733
06-28-2012, 08:18
Welcome to the USSA!

:steamed:


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Sam Spade
06-28-2012, 08:18
Looks like we have an issue for November.

amazon
06-28-2012, 08:19
seriously..wtf. Sounds like another .gov train wreck.

Sam Spade
06-28-2012, 08:19
glenn beck reporting it ALL remaining :shocked:

Beck is wrong.

evlbruce
06-28-2012, 08:20
Looks like we have an issue for November.

What might that be? Mittens was for the individual mandate before Obama was.

Glock30Eric
06-28-2012, 08:20
It is a truly sad day for the America.

I don't know what else to say.

DOC44
06-28-2012, 08:21
We live in interesting but sad times.....America is no more.

Doc44

JFrame
06-28-2012, 08:22
Upholding the Mandate as a tax makes Obama and the rest of the Democrats liars (as they argued throughout the development of the bill that it wasn't a tax). Republicans are undoubtedly pulling video files of every Democrat of significance declaring that the individual mandate did not constitute a tax.

I guess this gives Romney another platform on which to stake his candidacy (repeal of Obamacare) -- as well as the rest of the GOP.

But yeah -- I'm quite disappointed in Roberts...


.

Sam Spade
06-28-2012, 08:24
We live in interesting but sad times.....America is no more.

Doc44

Only to the Sunshine Patriot. What it really is, is an opportunity to buckle down, work and achieve.

Just1More
06-28-2012, 08:26
Obama just won a 2nd term.

maxsnafu
06-28-2012, 08:26
And... Roberts is shown for the mush he is.

Thanks Dubyah!

Every Republican president since Hoover has appointed at least one Supreme Court justice that has proven to be an absolute disaster for freedom and Constitutional law. George Bush's Roberts appointment was simply continuing a long-standing GOP tradition.

Philo Beddoe
06-28-2012, 08:26
It is a truly sad day for the America.

I don't know what else to say.

Ditto.

LASTRESORT20
06-28-2012, 08:27
We live in interesting but sad times.....America is no more.

Doc44


The leftist are coming out of the woodwork....
sad time indeed....but America is not finished yet...

rgregoryb
06-28-2012, 08:28
bye, bye America

JohnH
06-28-2012, 08:29
Ya see! That's why you have to have a Republican in the White House so they can appoint conservatives to the Supreme Court. Oh, wait! Wasn't Roberts Bush's appointee? :rofl: Do you miss me now?:rofl:

LASTRESORT20
06-28-2012, 08:30
bye, bye America


Hang in there....stop sulking...

JFrame
06-28-2012, 08:31
Hang in there....stop sulking...


Yeah -- imagine if Washington packed up his bags and went home from Valley Forge...


.

Just1More
06-28-2012, 08:31
People are going to be VERY surprised when the Government deducts their health care costs from their tax return.

JAS104
06-28-2012, 08:32
CNN says a 5-4 vote upheld the entire thing.
What the hell guys.

sheriff733
06-28-2012, 08:32
Obama just won a 2nd term.

This.


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FFR Spyder GT
06-28-2012, 08:35
mandate UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Doc44

As usual, Doc44 got his facts wrong, again.

Sam Spade
06-28-2012, 08:37
Yeah -- imagine if Washington packed up his bags and went home from Valley Forge...


.

There's the spirit.

"The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value."

JFrame
06-28-2012, 08:37
Obama just won a 2nd term.

This.


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Y'know -- I'm really not sure about that. The majority of Americans HATE this law passionately -- and the SCOTUS decision has ensured that it will stay a prominent sore point up to the election. Romney has already staked repealing Obamacare as a major leg of his platform. Now, it will remain so.

This decision has actually made it MORE of an investment for Americans to ensure that the GOP gains ground, to work on a rollback of the Act.


.

Sgt127
06-28-2012, 08:38
Yeah -- imagine if Washington packed up his bags and went home from Valley Forge...


.

Most Americans believed in freedom in 1777. Over half the population wasn't dependent on the Brits at the time.

The good folks need to rally and make noise.

rgregoryb
06-28-2012, 08:39
Most Americans believed in freedom in 1777. Over half the population wasn't dependent on the Brits at the time.

excellent point

sheriff733
06-28-2012, 08:39
Y'know -- I'm really not sure about that. The majority of Americans HATE this law passionately -- and the SCOTUS decision has ensured that it will stay a prominent sore point up to the election. Romney has already staked repealing Obamacare as a major leg of his platform. Now, it will remain so.

This decision has actually made it MORE of an investment for Americans to ensure that the GOP gains ground, to work on a rollback of the Act.


.

Well, that's an interesting way to look at it. Makes sense to me.

I'll sure hope you're right!


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CAcop
06-28-2012, 08:39
Obama just won a 2nd term.

Not neccessarily. Obamacare is unpopular. Now that it is here for now it might push people to vote for a candidate who wants to repeal it.

Essentially Obama won the battle but might loose the war.

DOC44
06-28-2012, 08:40
As usual, Doc44 got his facts wrong, again.

read the whole post A HOLE.

Jerk

Doc44

aircarver
06-28-2012, 08:40
Pelosi & Reid made a mess of a bill ... it remains a mess of a bill ...

Repeal it !

.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 08:40
Most Americans believed in freedom in 1777. Over half the population wasn't dependent on the Brits at the time.


Actually, from what I understand historically, about one-third of Colonials were for the revolution. Another third were loyalists. The last third couldn't give a damn.

The right third won. :cool:


.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 08:41
Well, that's an interesting way to look at it. Makes sense to me.

I'll sure hope you're right!


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Me too, my friend! :)


.

automatic slim
06-28-2012, 08:42
You all need to get off GT, and get back to work!!!
I have bills to pay!

callihan_44
06-28-2012, 08:44
going to be interesting to see how companies react to this, will they start dumping employees and healthcare hmmm?

JFrame
06-28-2012, 08:44
You all need to get off GT, and get back to work!!!
I have bills to pay!


Ya ever hear of multi-tasking...? :supergrin:


.

JAS104
06-28-2012, 08:45
Most Americans believed in freedom in 1777. Over half the population wasn't dependent on the Brits at the time.

The good folks need to rally and make noise.

+1 . I agree with this.

mt920
06-28-2012, 08:45
The Republican Party got their butts handed to them by a right leaning Supreme Court. Maybe it's time for the GOP to revisit the playbook and kill some of the unnecessary rhetoric. Its time for both parties to govern, and bring their dog and pony show to an end. It is time to do what is best for this country!

JFrame
06-28-2012, 08:46
The Republican Party got their butts handed to them by a right leaning Supreme Court. Maybe it's time for the GOP to revisit the playbook and kill some of the unnecessary rhetoric. Its time for both parties to govern, and bring their dog and pony show to an end. It is time to do what is best for this country!


Sooo...I guess what you believe is best for this country...


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rgregoryb
06-28-2012, 08:46
You all need to get off GT, and get back to work!!!
I have bills to pay!

I'm retired :tongueout:......you get back to work :supergrin:

JAS104
06-28-2012, 08:46
Ya ever hear of multi-tasking...? :supergrin:


.

What's he mean by, work?
:dunno:

JFrame
06-28-2012, 08:50
What's he mean by, work?
:dunno:


Oh, that Slim -- he just talks nonsense every now and then...









http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/grin.gif

.

JohnH
06-28-2012, 08:51
Obama just won a 2nd term.

Absolutely! This should have been the death knell for a second term. Instead, it's ninth inning homer. I guess Romney call tell us his mandated health care wasn't such a bad idea after all....must be something about wearing those magic panties.

Little Joe
06-28-2012, 08:52
The stock market is tanking.

Guss
06-28-2012, 08:52
Looks like we have an issue for November.
Romneycare was constitutional too.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 08:53
Romneycare was constitutional too.

There you go, conflating state and federal again...


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stsai465
06-28-2012, 08:54
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=438&pictureid=5822

"I, for one, welcome our new Government overlords..."

sheriff733
06-28-2012, 08:55
The stock market is tanking.

Jesus, it is.


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JAS104
06-28-2012, 08:55
There you go, conflating state and federal again...


.

This seems to happen a LOT.

engineer151515
06-28-2012, 08:56
Not neccessarily. Obamacare is unpopular. Now that it is here for now it might push people to vote for a candidate who wants to repeal it.

Essentially Obama won the battle but might loose the war.

Another spot on post

Gundude
06-28-2012, 08:57
Not neccessarily. Obamacare is unpopular. Now that it is here for now it might push people to vote for a candidate who wants to repeal it.That implies that people actually believe Romney would work to repeal it.

There is no way most rational people would believe that.

He championed universal health care as governor
He has a reputation for saying anything you want to hear.

Those two things combined will prevent rational people from thinking he'd do anything but expand Obamacare.

Republicans could have easily won this election with anybody except Romney. The whole "nominate Romney because he has the best chance" mantra, without any critical thought about whether he actually has the best chance, has sunk Republicans. Can't say they don't deserve it, for voting in the primaries based blindly on a mantra that had no validity in the first place.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 08:58
This seems to happen a LOT.


It does for those who find it convenient (if inherently incorrect).


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CAcop
06-28-2012, 08:59
going to be interesting to see how companies react to this, will they start dumping employees and healthcare hmmm?

I know my city will dump it and they are some of the most liberal people on earth.

evlbruce
06-28-2012, 09:03
Not neccessarily. Obamacare is unpopular. Now that it is here for now it might push people to vote for a candidate who wants to repeal it.

Essentially Obama won the battle but might loose the war.

Maybe. The problem is that there are major questions regarding Mitten's sincerity in repealing Obamacare. A great deal of hay will be made over Romney's support to this day for the individual mandate not only in his state but also at the national level.

One of Santorum's best criticisms of Romney was that Romney was the worst possible candidate to tackle Obama on Obamacare, I think he was right.

Sgt127
06-28-2012, 09:03
Actually, from what I understand historically, about one-third of Colonials were for the revolution. Another third were loyalists. The last third couldn't give a damn.

The right third won. :cool:


.

Honestly? Those numbers may apply to 2012. Good point.

automatic slim
06-28-2012, 09:03
You know what's fun? Log on to your Facebook and see who the morons are......:upeyes:

automatic slim
06-28-2012, 09:05
Maybe. The problem is that there are major questions regarding Mitten's sincerity in repealing Obamacare. A great deal of hay will be made over Romney's support for the individual mandate not only in his state but also at the national level. Healthcare systems which the candidate supports to this day.

One of Santorum's best criticisms of Romney was that Romney was the worst possible candidate to tackle Obama on Obamacare, I think he was right.

He'll say whatever, and if he gets elected he'll say "Sorry, my hands are tied. Nothing I can do."

JFrame
06-28-2012, 09:11
He championed universal health care as governor

A great deal of hay will be made over Romney's support to this day for the individual mandate not only in his state but also at the national level.

The argument continues to be made by well-meaning people that a person would govern the same exact way in Massachusetts as he would in, say, Virginia. I just don't see the justification to that equation.


.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 09:11
You know what's fun? Log on to your Facebook and see who the morons are......:upeyes:If you have a Facebook account, you may want to look in the mirror before you judge.

Putting that much info about yourself online is not smart. Facebook privacy controls aren't to be trusted.

Sorry for the diversion...

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 09:12
Honestly, I just can't take it anymore.
Seeing the country I love, sacrificed 6 years of my life and blood, sweat and tears along with friends, just go down the tubes.

barbedwiresmile
06-28-2012, 09:13
Vote for the GOP so we can get great supreme court picks.

whoflungdo
06-28-2012, 09:13
That implies that people actually believe Romney would work to repeal it.

There is no way most rational people would believe that.

He championed universal health care as governor
He has a reputation for saying anything you want to hear.

Those two things combined will prevent rational people from thinking he'd do anything but expand Obamacare.

Republicans could have easily won this election with anybody except Romney. The whole "nominate Romney because he has the best chance" mantra, without any critical thought about whether he actually has the best chance, has sunk Republicans. Can't say they don't deserve it, for voting in the primaries based blindly on a mantra that had no validity in the first place.

This is not in defense or offense towards Romney or Obamacare. But my question is what tax has the government ever repealed or abolished? This is not just a Republican or Democrat issue. If this makes it as a tax, it will not be repealed by anyone or so history dictates...

For the record I think the whole thing is unconstitutional..

Gundude
06-28-2012, 09:14
The argument continues to be made by well-meaning people that a person would govern the same exact way in Massachusetts as he would in, say, Virginia. I just don't see the justification to that equation.


.It doesn't necessarily mean the exact same way.

But if you champion universal healthcare in any capacity, then people will expect you to do it again.

If you can't look to a person's past actions, what can you look to?

Little Joe
06-28-2012, 09:14
Honestly, I just can't take it anymore.
Seeing the country I love, sacrificed 6 years of my life and blood, sweat and tears along with friends, just go down the tubes.

Don't despair, my friend. This can be overcome.

sbhaven
06-28-2012, 09:15
I see this as possibly galvanizing the fence sitters against Obama in November. Most thought the individual mandate portion was against the constitution. Now that SCOTUS ruled it a tax, if the Senate and White House can be taken by Republicans this tax can be repealed. And once repealed the rest of the messed up law falls apart because it's funding mechanism is gone.

Polls show that a good number of people wanted portions of the Obamacare, just not the individual mandate. Most see the mandate for what the courts just ruled it was. A way for the government to use a tax to punish you if you fail to do what the government wants you to do. The opinion even states you can refuse to pay for health care, now the government will simply tax you if you do.

Mark Levin probably had a heart attack when he read the opinion. Going to be interesting to see how he dissects the opinion tonight.

barbedwiresmile
06-28-2012, 09:15
So the state can now force you to buy something. And "tax" you if you don't. Good lobbying on this one. And Ins stocks bullish since inception. Anyone care to argue that we're not in a proto-fascist state?

evlbruce
06-28-2012, 09:15
The argument continues to be made by well-meaning people that a person would govern the same exact way in Massachusetts as he would in, say, Virginia. I just don't see the justification to that equation.


.

During the healthcare debate in 2009 Romney supported and forwarded ('http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/03/03/further-proof-romney-supported-a-national-individual-mandate-in-2009/') the individual mandate at the national level. Romney has only dug himself in deeper since then, saying that the individual mandate is 'fundamentally conservative' ('http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c2MWsTl41o').

Despite running for president for the past six years, Mittens has yet to establish himself as anything other than the liberal governor of Massachusetts.

automatic slim
06-28-2012, 09:16
If you have a Facebook account, you may want to look in the mirror before you judge.

Putting that much info about yourself online is not smart. Facebook privacy controls aren't to be trusted.

Sorry for the diversion...

I just looked in the mirror, and I'm beautiful....:supergrin:

rgregoryb
06-28-2012, 09:19
Vote for the GOP so we can get great supreme court picks.

OUCH! point well made...:wavey:

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 09:19
Don't despair, my friend. This can be overcome.

I hope so.

sbhaven
06-28-2012, 09:24
Gowdy Statement on Supreme Court Decision (http://gowdy.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=301360)
Today, Representative Trey Gowdy (SC-4) released the following statement after the United State Supreme Court ruled 5-4 to uphold the Patient Protection Affordable Care Act (PPACA). The Supreme Court did redefine PPACA as a tax.

“The question every American should now be asking themselves is what's next? Can Congress "tax" you for not exercising enough since that impacts the cost of healthcare? Can congress "tax" you for eating certain foods or offer "tax" breaks for avoiding certain foods? Can congress "tax" you because you only walk on the treadmill and don't run? Are there any limits to the power of the federal government?”

“Our forefathers would not recognize the modern day interpretation of the document they wrote and ratified.”

“The President said this wasn't a "tax" and the Supreme Court bailed him out by re-interpreting his argument as a "tax" rather than as a mandate and an expansion of the commerce clause.”

“Federalism is gone. The state has the power to control – via mandate or "tax" - virtually all aspects of your life. It's a sad day for those who believe in personal responsibility and a limited federal government.”

Rep. Trey Gowdy is Chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform’s Subcommittee on Healthcare, District of Columbia, Census and the National Archives. Rep. Gowdy’s subcommittee has held numerous hearings on the impact of the healthcare law. PPACA is ill conceived and delivers many unintended costs to the taxpayers. On March 28, 2012, Rep. Gowdy attended the U.S. Supreme Court hearing on the mandated healthcare law.

jeanderson
06-28-2012, 09:24
Today we turned the corner... and down the path of socialism. If this law is not overturned by the Congress, the United States Federal Government will soon implode under its massive system of regulations and debt. I honestly think that is Obama's plan anyway.

sbhaven
06-28-2012, 09:30
After the Obamacare SCOTUS ruling I wonder if the Democrats who previously said they would vote for contempt on Holder, will be embolden to now vote against contempt.

It would be a trifecta for Obama if the Holder contempt vote goes down in flames. :steamed:

BuckeyePPC
06-28-2012, 09:33
Will the government force doctors to take new Medicare/Medicaid patients ? My personal doctor who is also a good friend WON'T take any new medicare/medicaid patients. I'm begging him to take me when the time comes but not certain if he will.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 09:36
It doesn't necessarily mean the exact same way.

But if you champion universal healthcare in any capacity, then people will expect you to do it again.

If you can't look to a person's past actions, what can you look to?

I understand what you're saying -- but clearly, Romney had a mandate in Massachusetts to set up some sort of universal care system for that state. If, in fact, Romney bends with the wind, then the overwhelming national preference to overturn Obamacare would have to factor into his actions as president.


.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 09:40
During the healthcare debate in 2009 Romney supported and forwarded (http://www.redstate.com/erick/2012/03/03/further-proof-romney-supported-a-national-individual-mandate-in-2009/) the individual mandate at the national level. Romney has only dug himself in deeper since then, saying that the individual mandate is 'fundamentally conservative' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c2MWsTl41o).

Despite running for president for the past six years, Mittens has yet to establish himself as anything other than the liberal governor of Massachusetts.

But Romney has now made repealing Obamacare a major leg of his candidacy platform. I know it's a case of "what he said last," but once it's anchored into your platform, it seems to be the one that holds the most weight.

I know folks have gone around and around on this discussion, and will not be swayed one way or another. I think this is a situation of just needing to agree to disagree.


.

sbhaven
06-28-2012, 09:42
One good thing is this ruling now officially confirms that Obama will raise taxes on the middle class even though he stated numerous times he would not raise taxes on the middle class.

cowboy1964
06-28-2012, 09:42
Obama: the mandate is "not a tax".
Supreme Court: the mandate IS a tax but can stay.

Idiots, all.

mt920
06-28-2012, 09:43
Sooo...I guess what you believe is best for this country...


.

You are correct... I believe this country would be better off if both parties worked together, oppose to forcing their ideological will on us all.

snerd
06-28-2012, 09:44
http://media.columbiatribune.com/img/photos/2010/03/22/mo_A01_pelosi_0322_t938.jpg?73923164d40afcedbf1819f47c71f3cddfafa06d

aircarver
06-28-2012, 09:44
Supreme Court:

"You folks made this mess.... You fix it" ....

.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 09:45
Marco Rubio is now speaking on the SCOTUS decision, and (as usual) is making a very good case. Of course, he's saying that the SCOTUS only rules on the constitutionality of things, and doesn't decide whether it's good or bad policy. He said that it IS bad policy, and this will galvanize the GOP to take steps to undo it (with the help of the American electorate -- wink, wink).


.

cowboy1964
06-28-2012, 09:46
Can congress "tax" you for eating certain foods?

Yes. Alcohol taxes, cigarette taxes, etc. Nothing new. A soda tax is coming.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 09:46
You are correct... I believe this country would be better off if both parties worked together, oppose to forcing their ideological will on us all.


Heh -- look no further than that Pelosi victory march photo posted on this thread to see who forced their ideological will.


.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 09:47
One good thing is this ruling now officially confirms that Obama will raise taxes on the middle class even though he stated numerous times he would not raise taxes on the middle class.


...And that is a POWERFUL message to the middle class...


.

cowboy1964
06-28-2012, 09:48
Of course, he's saying that the SCOTUS only rules on the constitutionality of things, and doesn't decide whether it's good or bad policy..

But many of these talking heads were saying clearly the mandate was "unconstitutional". But I suspected the court would view it simply as a tax and let it stand. It's no different than Social Security or Medicare in that sense. Those are "mandates" as well.

beforeobamabans
06-28-2012, 09:49
If this deal doesn't galvanize the evolution of a third political party, nothing will.

snerd
06-28-2012, 09:49
http://thelookingspoon.com/tlsimages/blog/2012/chief_justice_john_roberts_wrong.jpg

evlbruce
06-28-2012, 09:54
I know folks have gone around and around on this discussion, and will not be swayed one way or another. I think this is a situation of just needing to agree to disagree.


.

Fair enough J.

:beer:

JFrame
06-28-2012, 09:55
Romney's first sentence in his reaction speech -- he will repeal Obamacare.

Some quotes:

"Obamacare raises taxes on the middle class by about 500 billion dollars."

"Obamacare is a job-killer."

"Obamacare puts the federal government between you and your doctor."

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 09:56
Marco Rubio is now speaking on the SCOTUS decision, and (as usual) is making a very good case. Of course, he's saying that the SCOTUS only rules on the constitutionality of things, and doesn't decide whether it's good or bad policy. He said that it IS bad policy, and this will galvanize the GOP to take steps to undo it (with the help of the American electorate -- wink, wink).


.

I really wished we'd have chosen Rubio instead of Romney.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 09:56
Fair enough J.

:beer:


http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/drinks.gif


.

greentriple
06-28-2012, 09:59
I want to thank you all for a very entertaining read.

For those that think this is the end of America..., leave. Please! Go anywhere, but just go!


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Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 10:01
I want to thank you all for a very entertaining read.

For those that think this is the end of America..., leave. Please! Go anywhere, but just go!


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Why? We were here first. It's your type that didn't like her the way she was.

snerd
06-28-2012, 10:04
.......... For those that think this is the end of America..., leave. Please! Go anywhere, but just go!........
Ah, gotta love the left's "tolerance" and respect for other views. Heartwarming.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:08
But many of these talking heads were saying clearly the mandate was "unconstitutional". But I suspected the court would view it simply as a tax and let it stand. It's no different than Social Security or Medicare in that sense. Those are "mandates" as well.


Yup -- they split the difference to keep it in effect, and as noted elsewhere, to let Congress hash it out (which, when you think of it, is the way the SCOTUS handles a lot of decisions).

What they DID do is take the cover away from Democrats who previously held that Obamacare did not constitute a tax. And it gave Romney the rather resonant line that Obamacare is a 500 billion dollar tax hike on the middle class.


.

engineer151515
06-28-2012, 10:09
I want to thank you all for a very entertaining read.

For those that think this is the end of America..., leave. Please! Go anywhere, but just go!


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Funny,

I was just thinking the same thing about people who thought this Supreme Court socialist victory was somehow a great thing.

Fred Hansen
06-28-2012, 10:11
No surprise.

You exist ONLY to fuel your insatiable government; Kelo v. City of New London told you that, if you would have listened.

I'd like to laugh at the "RINO Romney the libtard gubberner of Massachew****s will save us!", but I'm gagging from the stench of desperation hanging in the air.

Back to work serfs!

Guss
06-28-2012, 10:11
Romney's first sentence in his reaction speech -- he will repeal Obamacare.

Some quotes:

"Obamacare raises taxes on the middle class by about 500 billion dollars."

"Obamacare is a job-killer."

"Obamacare puts the federal government between you and your doctor."
Gee, where does Romney now stand on Romneycare?

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:12
Gee, where does Romney now stand on Romneycare?


Conflating state and federal again, I see...


.

Guss
06-28-2012, 10:12
If this deal doesn't galvanize the evolution of a third political party, nothing will.
And what will THEIR plan be for universal health care?

Syclone538
06-28-2012, 10:14
read the whole post A HOLE.

Jerk

Doc44

I would think that is enough to get banned.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:14
And what will THEIR plan be for universal health care?


Why on earth would you think that a third party would want universal health care? :headscratch:


.

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 10:14
And what will THEIR plan be for universal health care?

How about none? Let companies compete and let the consumer decide which, of any, insurance they want.
I know, strange concept right?

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:15
I would think that is enough to get banned.


You clearly have never seen REAL vitriol on this forum...


.

JAS104
06-28-2012, 10:15
The world will not end .
But this for sure is not good.

It will be okay, I promise. We need to move forward.
If he wants to bump us, we'll bump back. Ensure he doesn't get re-elected.

mt920
06-28-2012, 10:15
Heh -- look no further than that Pelosi victory march photo posted on this thread to see who forced their ideological will.


.

I'm not sure if that photo is her victory march picture. However, I stand by my comments that this country would be better off if both parties worked together oppose to forcing their ideological will on us. I would feel the same way if it was Boehner, instead of, Pelosi in that picture.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 10:15
Conflating state and federal again, I see...


.
Romney is Romney.

There's no "state" Romney and no "federal" Romney.

He's just Romney, and actions speak louder than words (although his words also support such mandates, depending on when you listen to them).

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:15
How about none? Let companies compete and let the consumer decide which, of any, insurance they want.
I know, strange concept right?


That is a very strange notion to a socialist and statist...


.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:17
Romney is Romney.

There's no "state" Romney and no "federal" Romney.

He's just Romney, and actions speak louder than words (although his words also support such mandates, depending on when you listen to them).


Again, as with evlbruce, we'll just have to agree to disagree, Gundude. I think our relative positions are pretty well set.


.

Little Joe
06-28-2012, 10:18
Romney's first sentence in his reaction speech -- he will repeal Obamacare.

Some quotes:

"Obamacare raises taxes on the middle class by about 500 billion dollars."

"Obamacare is a job-killer."

"Obamacare puts the federal government between you and your doctor."

i wonder why he didn't add that the IRS will be adding 4,000 new IRS agents to make sure you comply. That would soberly hit most people right where they live.

The Machinist
06-28-2012, 10:18
Another black day for America, and another nail in our coffin. Way to go, GW Bush. Your Supreme Court nomination was just aces, buddy! It goes to show you you can't trust liberals - especially the ones that infest the GOP.

Mark my words: This legislation will never be repealed. There is nothing the government can't force us to do now.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:20
I'm not sure if that photo is her victory march picture. However, I stand by my comments that this country would be better off if both parties worked together oppose to forcing their ideological will on us. I would feel the same way if it was Boehner, instead of, Pelosi in that picture.


You seem to be blithely gliding over the fact that the Democrat party made all sorts of backroom deals at the 11th hour (Cornhusker Kickback being one) to get Obamacare passed. Nearly every Democrat not named Pelosi or Obama is now distancing themselves from this legislation like the plague. Your aversion for "ideology" only seems to tilt in one direction, your protests to the contrary notwithstanding.


.

Little Joe
06-28-2012, 10:20
Romney is Romney.

There's no "state" Romney and no "federal" Romney.

He's just Romney, and actions speak louder than words (although his words also support such mandates, depending on when you listen to them).

Whatever. He doesn't disdain America and our Judeo Christian heritage like Obama does.

Guss
06-28-2012, 10:20
How about none? Let companies compete and let the consumer decide which, of any, insurance they want.
I know, strange concept right?
Been there, done that. It didn't work.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:21
i wonder why he didn't add that the IRS will be adding 4,000 new IRS agents to make sure you comply. That would soberly hit most people right where they live.


...I'm sure that will be added to the subsequent white paper... :cool:


.

Guss
06-28-2012, 10:21
Why on earth would you think that a third party would want universal health care? :headscratch:


.
That's why they'll get nowhere.

engineer151515
06-28-2012, 10:23
Been there, done that. It didn't work.

Actually, it gave you health care of the quality and innovation that was the envy of the world.

Little Joe
06-28-2012, 10:23
Another black day for America, and another nail in our coffin. Way to go, GW Bush. Your Supreme Court nomination was just aces, buddy! It goes to show you you can't trust liberals - especially the ones that infest the GOP.

Mark my words: This legislation will never be repealed. There is nothing the government can't force us to do now.

The Obama administration doesn't have both houses now. He can't force anything through at this point. The House can stop things.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:23
That's why they'll get nowhere.


:rofl::rofl:

Okay -- may it be noted for the record that Guss feels the only way a third party can succeed in this country is if they push for universal health care... :supergrin:


.

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 10:24
Been there, done that. It didn't work.

It worked fine until the government got involved.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:38
Heh...Obama avoided using the word "tax" in his prepared address...


.

HarlDane
06-28-2012, 10:48
Obama just won a 2nd term.I disagree. From a strictly political point of view, this may help us more than them. Had it gone the other way, a large chunk of the left's disenfranchised base would have been motivated. But now, the opposite may be true. If Romney can sell a repeal obamacare message, it may help energize those who weren't enthusiastic about him.

The Machinist
06-28-2012, 10:49
The Obama administration doesn't have both houses now. He can't force anything through at this point. The House can stop things.
I don't mean that Obama is going to rape us again right away, but the precedent is now set, and future presidents and congresses will keep piling on top of the producer class, as they drive this country right off a ********** cliff.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:50
I disagree. From a strictly political point of view, this may help us more than them. Had it gone the other way, a large chunk of the left's disenfranchised base would have been motivated. But now, the opposite may be true. If Romney can sell a repeal obamacare message, it may help energize those who weren't enthusiastic about him.


Well stated -- that's been my position also.


.

JRoCc
06-28-2012, 10:50
Heh...Obama avoided using the word "tax" in his prepared address...


.


Yes he most certainly did. That's because we will feel the tax..he doesn't need to say it.

RCP
06-28-2012, 10:57
Vote for the GOP so we can get great supreme court picks.

:whistling:

JFrame
06-28-2012, 10:59
Yes he most certainly did. That's because we will feel the tax..he doesn't need to say it.


Americans have an intense dislike of the word "tax," going back to, oh, the 1700's. I think a lot of people will be using that word in the coming months -- just not Obama! :supergrin:


.

greentriple
06-28-2012, 11:03
Ah, gotta love the left's "tolerance" and respect for other views. Heartwarming.

Oh, I tolerate your silly views. I'm just saying if things are that bad, pack up. I don't think it's the conservatives or liberals that doom us but rather the intolerant extremists that do the most harm. It's labeling of opposition views as "evil" or "anti-American" or their proponents as "destroyers" or "communists" or "fascists" that is truly destructive.

America the bold and beautiful, land of the brave and free is founded on opposition views and ideas and opinions must flow freely un-encumbered by hate.

I am neither a Liberal or Consevative by you definitions, I'm an American by mine.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

JFrame
06-28-2012, 11:12
I am neither a Liberal or Consevative by you definitions, I'm an American by mine.


Oh, great -- another "moderate centrist"... :upeyes:


.

The Machinist
06-28-2012, 11:27
Words...
You're a liberal, through and through. You don't have the courage of your convictions, which is how we all know. I'm not very popular here, being a Paulbot and all, but I'm not going to shy away from the truth, like you progressive pukes do.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 11:33
You're a liberal, through and through. You don't have the courage of your convictions, which is how we all know. I'm not very popular here, being a Paulbot and all, but I'm not going to shy away from the truth, like you progressive pukes do.


That's the thing -- I might disagree with you, BWS, Ruble, and some others, on some issues -- but you guys will always have my respect and acknowledgement that you are speaking the absolute truth as you see it.


.

JAS104
06-28-2012, 11:35
Oh, I tolerate your silly views. I'm just saying if things are that bad, pack up. I don't think it's the conservatives or liberals that doom us but rather the intolerant extremists that do the most harm. It's labeling of opposition views as "evil" or "anti-American" or their proponents as "destroyers" or "communists" or "fascists" that is truly destructive.

America the bold and beautiful, land of the brave and free is founded on opposition views and ideas and opinions must flow freely un-encumbered by hate.

I am neither a Liberal or Consevative by you definitions, I'm an American by mine.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

This one...
Is gonna be a doozy. Put your helmet on, man. Gonna be a bumpy ride lo l:whistling:

GWSHARK
06-28-2012, 12:04
We live in interesting but sad times.....America is no more.

Doc44

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Obama_2fad73_2489254.jpg

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 12:16
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Obama_2fad73_2489254.jpg

Yeah, I am. I don't like being forced to do things by my employees.

You notice how the libs are not viewing this victory from the standpoint of liberty, constitutionality and freedom but from a , "We won you lost, nanna-nanna-boo-boo-stick your head in doo-doo" view.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 12:31
I don't mean that Obama is going to rape us again right away, but the precedent is now set, and future presidents and congresses will keep piling on top of the producer class, as they drive this country right off a ********** cliff.The precedent was set a long time ago. The government can tax us as much as they want. It's not the job of the Supreme Court to prevent that, it's the job of the voters.

brickboy240
06-28-2012, 12:31
That is because this was never about liberty or freedom. This was about control and enslavement.

Not fun to watch your own country deteriorate right in front of your eyes....is it?

-brickboy240

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 12:34
That is because this was never about liberty or freedom. This was about control and enslavement.

Not fun to watch your own country deteriorate right in front of your eyes....is it?

-brickboy240

No, it is not.

GWSHARK
06-28-2012, 12:47
Come on guys... enough with the chicken little. It's not the end of the world.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 12:47
Come on guys... enough with the chicken little. It's not the end of the world.


You're right -- it isn't.


.

sheriff733
06-28-2012, 12:50
It's Bush's fault!!!

:rofl:

Hawkman
06-28-2012, 13:21
Come on guys... enough with the chicken little. It's not the end of the world.

"Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?"

Tell me, GWSHARK, when SHOULD we become concerned? Just what IS the tipping point?

Stubudd
06-28-2012, 13:40
Today we turned the corner... and down the path of socialism. If this law is not overturned by the Congress, the United States Federal Government will soon implode under its massive system of regulations and debt. I honestly think that is Obama's plan anyway.

naw, we turned that corner a long time ago. this was a different corner

really it's more like shifting to a new gear on the straightaway than another corner. we've been cruising a while now

Gundude
06-28-2012, 13:56
If Romney can sell a repeal obamacare message, it may help energize those who weren't enthusiastic about him.That's a huge "if". Those who aren't enthusiastic about him are that way precisely because he likes universal health care and because his true position on things is hard to gauge.

Who could've predicted, back when Romney was annointed "the one with the best chance to beat Obama," that he'd be the one Republican who couldn't take advantage of Obama's biggest weakness? Oh yeah, everybody who was actually thinking, that's who.

RC-RAMIE
06-28-2012, 13:59
That's a huge "if". Those who aren't enthusiastic about him are that way precisely because he likes universal health care and because his true position on things is hard to gauge.

Who could've predicted, back when Romney was annointed "the one with the best chance to beat Obama," that he'd be the one Republican who couldn't take advantage of Obama's biggest weakness? Oh yeah, everybody who was actually thinking, that's who.

Obama speech about decision on Obamacare, The mandate has had support from people "including the current Republican nominee for president"

JFrame
06-28-2012, 14:09
That's a huge "if". Those who aren't enthusiastic about him are that way precisely because he likes universal health care and because his true position on things is hard to gauge.

Who could've predicted, back when Romney was annointed "the one with the best chance to beat Obama," that he'd be the one Republican who couldn't take advantage of Obama's biggest weakness? Oh yeah, everybody who was actually thinking, that's who.


Y'know -- just my .02 shekels, but I'm guessing there will be a LOT of enthusiasm (maybe not for Romney, but for the cause). Back in 2009, a massive grassroots movement arose to fight Obamacare -- a movement with no leadership, no organizational continuity, and no funding. The passion generated by that movement essentially carried over into the 2010 elections.

I just think that tinderbox is primed to be re-lit.


.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 14:14
Obama speech about decision on Obamacare, The mandate has had support from people "including the current Republican nominee for president"We can expect a lot more "praise" towards Romney from Obama in the next few months.

He gets to look like he's being a nice guy, pointing out all the "enlightened" positions Romney shares with him, all the while twisting the knife.

Who could've guessed Romney would find himself in such an awful position. Oh yeah, everybody who was thinking, that's who.

rahrah12
06-28-2012, 14:26
Obama speech about decision on Obamacare, The mandate has had support from people "including the current Republican nominee for president"

I have a feeling this won't be as big an issue as we think in 4 months...I don't think either candidate really wants to talk about this.

I wonder how much we will actually hear from Romney in a month.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 14:27
I have a feeling this won't be as big an issue as we think in 4 months...I don't think either candidate really wants to talk about this.

I wonder how much we will actually hear from Romney in a month.


I don't know -- but it seems that every time I've heard Romney talk, "repealing Obamacare" has been one of his sound bites.


.

mt920
06-28-2012, 14:30
It's Bush's fault!!!

:rofl:

:rofl:

Stop it!!!!!! :rofl:

rahrah12
06-28-2012, 14:42
I don't know -- but it seems that every time I've heard Romney talk, "repealing Obamacare" has been one of his sound bites.


.

Agreed...but I just wonder if HE will still be leading the anti-Obamacare march...does he really want to get into a debate/discussion about it?

He will say he will repeal it when asked.

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 14:43
Originally Posted by sheriff733 http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19140740#post19140740)
It's Bush's fault!!!


http://somosrepublicans.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/george-bush-miss-me-yet.jpg

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRfyORDJdCds32VCVupo6ChnLUxpPmUdNoIkRG7hZGX8OpYyL4Y

Not no, but Hell no.

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 14:44
I don't know -- but it seems that every time I've heard Romney talk, "repealing Obamacare" has been one of his sound bites.


.

Yeah, I don't believe him.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 14:51
Agreed...but I just wonder if HE will still be leading the anti-Obamacare march...does he really want to get into a debate/discussion about it?

He will say he will repeal it when asked.


I don't know -- we'll see, I suppose...


.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 14:52
Yeah, I don't believe him.


Well -- since he said he'd repeal Obamacare as his first act as president, I guess we'd find out soon enough whether he lied about it. :supergrin:


.

mt920
06-28-2012, 14:52
You seem to be blithely gliding over the fact that the Democrat party made all sorts of backroom deals at the 11th hour (Cornhusker Kickback being one) to get Obamacare passed. Nearly every Democrat not named Pelosi or Obama is now distancing themselves from this legislation like the plague. Your aversion for "ideology" only seems to tilt in one direction, your protests to the contrary notwithstanding.


.

JFrame, I'm fully aware of the back room deals (by the Democrats) that took place to pass the bill. I just want them to move forward! It would be nice if "both" parties met somewhere in the middle and govern. They can start with Obamacare... Those on the far left and far right need to compromise and govern from the middle for the sake of this country.

rahrah12
06-28-2012, 14:54
Yeah, I don't believe him.

If the GOP doesn't control the House and Senate it doesn't matter anyways...

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 14:56
Well -- since he said he'd repeal Obamacare as his first act as president, I guess we'd find out soon enough whether he lied about it. :supergrin:


.

He can't unless he is willing to do an obama and break the law. I've posted this before. Obamacare waivers cannot be granted until 2017.

But as I reported (http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/repealing-obamacare-tougher-romney-claims/228931) last week, under the language of the health care law, the waivers are subject to a lot of restrictions Ė and donít kick in until January 1, 2017

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/993076

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 14:57
If the GOP doesn't control the House and Senate it doesn't matter anyways...

The GOP has been squabbling over what parts of obamacare to keep.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 14:58
JFrame, I'm fully aware of the back room deals (by the Democrats) that took place to pass the bill. I just want them to move forward! It would be nice if "both" parties met somewhere in the middle and govern. They can start with Obamacare... Those on the far left and far right need to compromise and govern from the middle for the sake of this country.


I get it -- now that the Democrats have steered the economy of health care toward the iceberg, you want everyone to say "full steam ahead."


.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 15:01
He can't unless he is willing to do an obama and break the law. I've posted this before. Obamacare waivers cannot be granted until 2017.



http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/993076


Okay -- I'd settle for dismantling Obamacare piece by piece, if necessary -- a daunting task to be sure, but much more doable with a Republican president and a Republican dominated Congress in both houses.


.

whoflungdo
06-28-2012, 15:01
JFrame, I'm fully aware of the back room deals (by the Democrats) that took place to pass the bill. I just want them to move forward! It would be nice if "both" parties met somewhere in the middle and govern. They can start with Obamacare... Those on the far left and far right need to compromise and govern from the middle for the sake of this country.

Over half the country didn't want Obamacare. How is it a compromise to pass legislation that less than half of the people want?

Your idea of compromise appears to be for the Republicans to give in. Compromise isn't one group giving into another or an individual giving into another. It is both sides making concessions..

JFrame
06-28-2012, 15:02
Over half the country didn't want Obamacare. How is it a compromise to pass legislation that less than half of the people want?

Your idea of compromise appears to be for the Republicans to give in. Compromise isn't one group giving into another or an individual giving into another. It is both sides making concessions..


Well said...This whole "fairness" concept that leftists have seems to be decidedly one-sided.


.

whoflungdo
06-28-2012, 15:04
Okay -- I'd settle for dismantling Obamacare piece by piece, if necessary -- a daunting task to be sure, but much more doable with a Republican president and a Republican dominated Congress in both houses.


.

I would too JFrame... but I go back to a point I made earlier. Now that it's a tax, what tax has the government ever repealed completely? Once a tax is in place, it is near impossible to get rid of it whether by Republican or Democrat...

JFrame
06-28-2012, 15:05
I would too JFrame... but I go back to a point I made earlier. Now that it's a tax, what tax has the government ever repealed completely? Once a tax is in place, it is near impossible to get rid of it whether by Republican or Democrat...


Good point -- perhaps it'll make some difference that all the framers of the Obamacare law insisted that it wasn't a tax for the entire time of the bill's construction and passage.


.

rahrah12
06-28-2012, 15:07
Over half the country didn't want Obamacare. How is it a compromise to pass legislation that less than half of the people want?



Problem is that half of the people that don't like Obamacare don't think it went far enough...

JFrame
06-28-2012, 15:15
Problem is that half of the people that don't like Obamacare don't think it went far enough...


You really think so? I felt that the overwhelming number of people who opposed Obamacare did so on the basis that it constituted a huge government overreach, and an unsustainable drain on the economy.

My sense was that even the most hardcore leftists who wanted an instant single payer system were content to look at Obamacare as an acceptable and incremental step in their preferred direction.


.

whoflungdo
06-28-2012, 15:15
Problem is that half of the people that don't like Obamacare don't think it went far enough...


I guess that's why that %54 want it repealed then.. It needs to be repealed because it didn't go far enough...

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/obamacare-healthcare-mandate-decision/2012/06/28/id/443795

whoflungdo
06-28-2012, 15:19
You really think so? I felt that the overwhelming number of people who opposed Obamacare did so on the basis that it constituted a huge government overreach, and an unsustainable drain on the economy.

My sense was that even the most hardcore leftists who wanted an instant single payer system were content to look at Obamacare as an acceptable and incremental step in their preferred direction.


.

JFrame.. Notice the slight change of words. RahRah used don't like where I used didn't want... Therein lies the difference...

DOC44
06-28-2012, 15:19
Roberts may turn out to be a very good chess player....... Making the move to "tax" may turn into a "tax mate".

Doc44

rahrah12
06-28-2012, 15:22
You really think so? I felt that the overwhelming number of people who opposed Obamacare did so on the basis that it constituted a huge government overreach, and an unsustainable drain on the economy.

My sense was that even the most hardcore leftists who wanted an instant single payer system were content to look at Obamacare as an acceptable and incremental step in their preferred direction.


.

Maybe it is just some of the people I am around but they were highly upset that Obama caved and didn't go far enough. Upset that this does nothing to really reduce the cost of health care. They see this as basically giving free money to private insurance companies.

I do agree that some see it as a step in the right direction though...Would that person say in a poll that they didn't want Obamacare?

JFrame
06-28-2012, 15:22
JFrame.. Notice the slight change of words. RahRah used don't like where I used didn't want... Therein lies the difference...


Hmmm...Very nuanced of you, whoflungdo... :cool:


.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 15:24
I do agree that some see it as a step in the right direction though...Would that person say in a poll that they didn't want Obamacare?


Given the context, I would say no, they wouldn't say that.


.

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 15:27
Maybe it is just some of the people I am around but they were highly upset that Obama caved and didn't go far enough. Upset that this does nothing to really reduce the cost of health care. They see this as basically giving free money to private insurance companies.

I do agree that some see it as a step in the right direction though...Would that person say in a poll that they didn't want Obamacare?

The people you hang around with are stupid. Feel free to tell them I said so.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 15:29
The people you hang around with are stupid. Feel free to tell them I said so.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


.

rahrah12
06-28-2012, 15:29
I guess that's why that %54 want it repealed then.. It needs to be repealed because it didn't go far enough...

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/obamacare-healthcare-mandate-decision/2012/06/28/id/443795

There are multiple polls...

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/03/how-many-would-repeal-obamacare/

brickboy240
06-28-2012, 15:30
Back to stocking up.....beans...band-aids...bullets.

- brickboy240

RCP
06-28-2012, 15:41
Obama speech about decision on Obamacare, The mandate has had support from people "including the current Republican nominee for president"

Never saw that one coming.:whistling:

Fred Hansen
06-28-2012, 16:21
Beck is wrong.:upeyes:

The only part of Obamacare not upheld was the 'coercion of the states' with regard to Medicaid.

Beck was 99.9999% correct.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 16:26
Back to stocking up.....beans...band-aids...bullets.

- brickboy240


...Never stopped... :cool:


.

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 16:30
...Never stopped... :cool:


.

You are wise. Now you just need a black or black and brown liberty rifle.

mt920
06-28-2012, 16:40
I get it -- now that the Democrats have steered the economy of health care toward the iceberg, you want everyone to say "full steam ahead."


.

What's the alternative? Get angry and cry over spilled milk? Congress, the Senate and the President all earned an "F" in my eyes, because of the ideological BS.

Ergo, if "full steam ahead" means our lawmakers should work "together" for the sake of this country. Then "yes" full steam ahead. Both parties are responsible for this economy. One is at fault for getting us there and the other is guilty for the delayed recovery.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 17:17
What's the alternative? Get angry and cry over spilled milk? Congress, the Senate and the President all earned an "F" in my eyes, because of the ideological BS.

Ergo, if "full steam ahead" means our lawmakers should work "together" for the sake of this country. Then "yes" full steam ahead. Both parties are responsible for this economy. One is at fault for getting us there and the other is guilty for the delayed recovery.


Getting rid of the abomination known as Obamacare is an alternative, whether you choose to countenance that notion or not.


.

JFrame
06-28-2012, 17:19
You are wise. Now you just need a black or black and brown liberty rifle.


I'm actually working on it, my friend! :cool:

Specifically, "black." I'll definitely post on General Firearms or just PM you when it happens (as you were a major sounding board in the process!).


.

The Machinist
06-28-2012, 17:23
our lawmakers should work "together" for the sake of this country.
What a fairy tale. The lawmakers don't care about this country, and they certainly don't care about you. You're either a head of cattle to be taxed, or you're a sheep to be fed by them.

JRoCc
06-28-2012, 17:31
Roberts may turn out to be a very good chess player....... Making the move to "tax" may turn into a "tax mate".

Doc44


It's possible:

http://whitehouse12.com/2012/06/28/chief-justice-roberts-is-a-genius/

JFrame
06-28-2012, 17:36
It's possible:

http://whitehouse12.com/2012/06/28/chief-justice-roberts-is-a-genius/


It's interesting -- I just saw a graph of the market on the tube. It dipped catastrophically at about the time the SCOTUS decision was announced. It rebounded strongly to finish just 25 points under -- just about the time that the Romney camp announced that $2,000,000 in campaign donations came flooding in following the decision and Romney's speech.

Ko-eenkey-dink? :dunno:


.

The Machinist
06-28-2012, 17:44
It's possible:

http://whitehouse12.com/2012/06/28/chief-justice-roberts-is-a-genius/
Jesus Christ. :faint:

If Roberts was such a genius, he could have also found the entire pile of excrement unconstitutional, while he was at it! It just goes to show that Republicans cannot be trusted to nominate justices who love their country and their liberty. Now we'll all pay for it. Again. This crap is getting very old.

JRoCc
06-28-2012, 17:51
Jesus Christ. :faint:

If Roberts was such a genius, he could have also found the entire pile of excrement unconstitutional, while he was at it! It just goes to show that Republicans cannot be trusted to nominate justices who love their country and their liberty. Now we'll all pay for it. Again. This crap is getting very old.


That would be checkers...this is chess. If the article's theory is true...Roberts just stuck it to the current administration. If it's not...only time will tell and only Roberts knows the truth..for now.

rockabillyrider
06-28-2012, 17:54
The election in November has been temporarily suspended until I say so.

Barrack Hussein Obama








P.S. Just ask the Supreme Court. They got my Back.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1_INf4aTvmA/T-zjPEn_z2I/AAAAAAAAATs/X6rCNjHNcvE/s450/obama.jpg

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 17:56
That would be checkers...this is chess. If the article's theory is true...Roberts just stuck it to the current administration. If it's not...only time will tell and only Roberts knows the truth..for now.

We might never know. Dec 21 2012 is fast approaching. :whistling:

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 17:59
The election in November has been temporarily suspended until I say so.

Barrack Hussein Obama








P.S. Just ask the Supreme Court. They got my Back.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1_INf4aTvmA/T-zjPEn_z2I/AAAAAAAAATs/X6rCNjHNcvE/s450/obama.jpg

People will guffaw that possibility but a couple of talking heads, namely Limbaugh and Boortz have speculated to that effect.

rockabillyrider
06-28-2012, 18:16
People will guffaw that possibility but a couple of talking heads, namely Limbaugh and Boortz have speculated to that effect.

You forgot to mention Rockabillyrider. But you can listen you my new radio program starting on January 1st 2013!!!!!!!!

Oh wait, What was that? Canceled? No, say it's not so.

Yup. Right along with Rush, Shawn, Mark, Glenn, Neil, Fox News and everyone else who dares not to obey.

Welcome to the new amerika. :steamed:

whoflungdo
06-28-2012, 18:32
There are multiple polls...

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/03/how-many-would-repeal-obamacare/

Found on the last line of your link..."So, Romney and others would be correct to say that some polls show most Americans — or at least most voters — favor repeal. But not all polls."


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Gundude
06-28-2012, 18:36
It's interesting -- I just saw a graph of the market on the tube. It dipped catastrophically at about the time the SCOTUS decision was announced. It rebounded strongly to finish just 25 points under -- just about the time that the Romney camp announced that $2,000,000 in campaign donations came flooding in following the decision and Romney's speech.

Ko-eenkey-dink? :dunno:


.Not at all. It's the people trading on emotion and the people taking advantage of the people trading on emotion. Another day at the markets.

The Machinist
06-28-2012, 19:32
That would be checkers...this is chess.
This isn't a game. This is our liberty as free human beings on this earth. Americans have become all too accustomed to having their lives and livelihoods traded like commodities.

greentriple
06-28-2012, 19:33
You're a liberal, through and through. You don't have the courage of your convictions, which is how we all know. I'm not very popular here, being a Paulbot and all, but I'm not going to shy away from the truth, like you progressive pukes do.

Thanks for expressing your psychic abilities, they could have used your powers to foresee the Court's ruling.

Perhaps I am a Centrist. There are "Consevative" and "Liberal" views I like and support, and there are Libertarian positions I can embrace, but what I can't do as most of you do is swallow a position hook, line and sinker because it's against a particular view point or person.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

rahrah12
06-28-2012, 23:30
Found on the last line of your link...

"So, Romney and others would be correct to say that some polls show most Americans — or at least most voters — favor repeal. But not all polls."

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

That was my point...

Cavalry Doc
06-29-2012, 04:35
People will guffaw that possibility but a couple of talking heads, namely Limbaugh and Boortz have speculated to that effect.

Yeah, I think that idea is silly. Federal law enforcement and the military are not likely to support that.

steveksux
06-29-2012, 05:37
There you go, conflating state and federal again...


.
Just sayin, I don't care which level of govt infringes on my rights... Originally states weren't prevented from implementing state religions... That's not a "right".

Randy

JFrame
06-29-2012, 05:41
Just sayin, I don't care which level of govt infringes on my rights... Originally states weren't prevented from implementing state religions... That's not a "right".

Randy


My only point is that what someone does at the state level does not automatically presume the same at the national level. This notion might seem counterintuitive, but the politics at a given state (especially one as hardcore leftist as Massachusetts) is undoubtedly way different than national politics.


.

steveksux
06-29-2012, 05:46
My only point is that what someone does at the state level does not automatically presume the same at the national level. This notion might seem counterintuitive, but the politics at a given state (especially one as hardcore leftist as Massachusetts) is undoubtedly way different than national politics.


.

Don't disagree, but I think govt should either be able to regulate some aspect of society, or not. Seems all too often the only reason someone argues for a more local layer of govt being appropriate to regulate something where the upper layers are not, is they are confident they have a more manageable majority at that particular layer of govt to ensure they are the ones with their thumb on the scale, and someone else ends up on the short end...

Randy

JFrame
06-29-2012, 05:50
Don't disagree, but I think govt should either be able to regulate some aspect of society, or not. Seems all too often the only reason someone argues for a more local layer of govt being appropriate to regulate something where the upper layers are not, is they are confident they have a more manageable majority at that particular layer of govt to ensure they are the ones with their thumb on the scale, and someone else ends up on the short end...

Randy


I don't disagree with you either.


.

Sam Spade
06-29-2012, 06:35
Don't disagree, but I think govt should either be able to regulate some aspect of society, or not. Seems all too often the only reason someone argues for a more local layer of govt being appropriate to regulate something where the upper layers are not, is they are confident they have a more manageable majority at that particular layer of govt to ensure they are the ones with their thumb on the scale, and someone else ends up on the short end...

Randy

This view essentially replaces "states" with "provinces". They become no more than administrative arms of the central government. No point in having a Senate where each is represented equally, and a number of other things.

While that's not a "wrong" way to run things, that's not how this system was set up.

whoflungdo
06-29-2012, 07:22
That was my point...


And I agreed. However, the only poll I found that didn't support my point was the ONE you quoted. And in that link it showed of 2 other polls that did show over % 50 of people are against it.

Taphius
06-29-2012, 07:24
Taxes have to be initiated by the house don't they?

This one came from the Senate did it not?

Or can they swap out wording as they please to get the votes they need to pass it.

JFrame
06-29-2012, 07:26
And I agreed. However, the only poll I found that didn't support my point was the ONE you quoted. And in that link it showed of 2 other polls that did show over % 50 of people are against it.


My reference point is purely anecdotal, but I was never at an Obamacare rally or townhall where the anti-Obamacare folks didn't out-number the pro-Obamacare people by a significant margin (and this was even with Moveon.Org busing leftists in).


.

Fred Hansen
06-29-2012, 08:07
Taxes have to be initiated by the house don't they?

This one came from the Senate did it not?

Or can they swap out wording as they please to get the votes they need to pass it.Roberts swapped out "penalty" for "tax" Senate/House of Representatives shouldn't be any more difficult. Legislating from a bench one cannot be removed from is easy.