The Exit Plan [Archive] - Glock Talk

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engineer151515
06-28-2012, 10:11
Where to go?

(For obvious reasons)

I have international marketable skills, the ability to pull up and move on short notice and a passport.

Any ideas?

JBnTX
06-28-2012, 10:16
Invade and take over some small Pacific Island or butthole country and appoint yourself dictator for life.

..

jeanderson
06-28-2012, 10:21
Switzerland. They have great gun laws - everyone must own a firearm!

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 10:26
Nowhere really. America was the last beacon of hope in the world.
The last bastion of freedom.
Now, it's gone. Government is out of control.

Cavalry Doc
06-28-2012, 10:29
Their carry law sucks unless you are a member of THE militia, and then only your ussued weapon. May issue, with lots of hurdles.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 10:30
Where to go?
Bingo.

If we have it so bad here, the answer would be obvious, wouldn't it? It seems to be obvious for the millions who incur great expense to get here.

engineer151515
06-28-2012, 10:34
Bingo.

If we have it so bad here, the answer would be obvious, wouldn't it? It seems to be obvious for the millions who incur great expense to get here.

I think a good many people who fled communist/socialist governments stand in shock and disbelief at the changing ideology happening now in this country.

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 10:35
I think a good many people who fled communist/socialist governments stand in shock and disbelief at the changing ideology happening now in this country.

I would agree.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 10:37
I think a good many people who fled communist/socialist governments stand in shock and disbelief at the changing ideology happening now in this country.Have you asked them? Maybe, having experienced the real thing, they'd laugh at what you consider communism/socialism.

HarlDane
06-28-2012, 10:41
Have you asked them? Maybe, having experienced the real thing, they'd laugh at what you consider communism/socialism.They don't laugh, they get pretty steamed. My MIL was born and raised in Soviet Armenia, I've heard her set more than one person straight.

CitizenOfDreams
06-28-2012, 11:30
Have you asked them? Maybe, having experienced the real thing, they'd laugh at what you consider communism/socialism.

We do laugh about some aspects of that, yes. The way Americans imagine Communism can be very naive at times, just like the way Russians imagine Capitalism.

But mostly we just shake our head in disbelief. This crap? Here, in America?

brickboy240
06-28-2012, 12:49
That is the saddest part of it all....we do NOT have anywhere else to run away to.

The left had TONS of places to go where the govt ran everything and nobody was allowed to own guns and other overbearing left leaning nonsense is the order of the day.

Us? the more right leaning or libertarian types? Forget it. America was the last bastion for us.

Now the leftists have gone and screwed THAT up.

If you ask me...THIS is the saddest part of it all - there is nowhere else for us to go.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 12:52
That is the saddest part of it all....we do NOT have anywhere else to run away to.

The left had TONS of places to go where the govt ran everything and nobody was allowed to own guns and other overbearing left leaning nonsense is the order of the day.

Us? the more right leaning or libertarian types? Forget it. America was the last bastion for us.

Now the leftists have gone and screwed THAT up.

If you ask me...THIS is the saddest part of it all - there is nowhere else for us to go.Antarctica?

brickboy240
06-28-2012, 12:54
That is nearly as laughable as the suggestion of Switzerland.

Yeah...lets protest our country turning socialist by moving to a country where the govt. literally runs everything. And only because of some obscure law about militia members keeping a gun in their home for a number of years.

LOL

rahrah12
06-28-2012, 12:58
Switzerland. They have great gun laws - everyone must own a firearm!

Doesn't Switzerland have universal healthcare?

Gundude
06-28-2012, 12:58
There is a simple solution:

Get really rich. Not just sort-of rich, that's actually the worst of both worlds. We're talking at least Romney rich.

Then the rules don't apply to you, no matter where you go. You can dictate the ground rules wherever you go.

It's not about where to go, it's about how much money you have while you're there.

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 13:00
There is a simple solution:

Get really rich. Not just sort-of rich, that's actually the worst of both worlds. We're talking at least Romney rich.

Then the rules don't apply to you, no matter where you go. You can dictate the ground rules wherever you go.

It's not about where to go, it's about how much money you have while you're there.

What about Obama rich? Or Pelosi rich, maybe even Biden rich?

callihan_44
06-28-2012, 13:06
Im staying put, this is it folks.... The usa is the last best hope, there is NO better. IF it gets any worse atleast there is a good percentage of people who understand freedom and willing to fight to retain it...EUROPE? lol a bunch of sheep getting ready for the slaughter house...no thanks

Gundude
06-28-2012, 13:08
What about Obama rich? Or Pelosi rich, maybe even Biden rich?Nope, not nearly enough.

Show up in a country with a quarter of a billion dollars, there's nothing you can't do. Go there with a few million and they'll treat you OK, but all the rules still apply.

Dexters
06-28-2012, 13:19
Where to go?

(For obvious reasons)

I have international marketable skills, the ability to pull up and move on short notice and a passport.

Any ideas?

It isn't that simple.

1 - Most countries have strict immigration laws that are difficult to meet.

2. - Even with marketable skills you usually have to have a job in the country before you go there. And, the company needs to show they couldn't find a person in country to do the job.

3. - US citizens are taxed on world income.

4. - Most other countries suck already and will probably get suckier.

GWSHARK
06-28-2012, 13:22
Hey if any of you guys in the NOVA area need help packing... I'd be glad to swing by and help. :cool:

concretefuzzynuts
06-28-2012, 13:25
Why should you go. We need to get them to go.

engineer151515
06-28-2012, 13:44
Hey if any of you guys in the NOVA area need help packing... I'd be glad to swing by and help. :cool:

Closer to NOLA than NOVA but I'd be happy to meet ya and buy you a beer anytime.

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 14:04
3. - US citizens are taxed on world income.


Depends where and how much you make.

rgregoryb
06-28-2012, 14:05
how about trying that secession thing once more?

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 14:17
Where to go?

(For obvious reasons)

I have international marketable skills, the ability to pull up and move on short notice and a passport.

Any ideas?

We find ourselves faced with the same question and the same thirst for freedom that brought our forefathers to America. This is also helped in our conquest of America. When government became to obtrusive we packed up, moved west and started over.

I'm thinking Costa Rica since there is already a large population of expats there.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 14:22
I'm thinking Costa Rica since there is already a large population of expats there.Do you know what expats do when they get to a new place in large numbers?

They make it into the place they left.

jeanderson
06-28-2012, 14:22
There is a simple solution:

Get really rich. Not just sort-of rich, that's actually the worst of both worlds. We're talking at least Romney rich.

Then the rules don't apply to you, no matter where you go. You can dictate the ground rules wherever you go.

It's not about where to go, it's about how much money you have while you're there.

Or, become a U.S. Congressman. They have their own set of rules, and are exempt from Obamacare.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 14:25
Or, become a U.S. Congressman. They have their own set of rules, and are exempt from Obamacare.Ugh, I couldn't imagine a worse job for myself. I'll take the billionaire route, thanks... :supergrin:

Dexters
06-28-2012, 15:04
Depends where

Wrong



and how much you make.

Yes, if your deductions etc, reduce your AJI to a point you don't pay tax.

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 15:08
Wrong




Yes, if your deductions etc, reduce your AJI to a point you don't pay tax.

No, I'm not. I worked overseas for two years.

Dexters
06-28-2012, 15:11
No, I'm not. I worked overseas for two years.

& what country did you work in that the USA exempted from US tax laws.

Explain how you didn't pay USA taxes (see my post above for more info).

NorthCarolinaLiberty
06-28-2012, 15:12
You can leave, but what will you do if your new environment becomes like the place you left?

Consider also that economically rising Asian countries are somewhat starting to resemble America from 50 years ago. I see more identification, grade school rules, tax enforcement, etc. Rising economies mean more stuff to protect; therefore more rules.

You might take heart in America being on the economic decline. Less stuff and hard times means people will start to question the rules. Crime in the 1930s. Protest in the 1960s. Our recent recognition of this real and long term decline means other people digging in and desperately making and enforcing more rules. They'll prevail for awhile, but ultimately, these things are cyclical.

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 15:16
You can leave, but what will you do if your new environment becomes like the place you left?

Consider also that economically rising Asian countries are somewhat starting to resemble America from 50 years ago. I see more identification, grade school rules, tax enforcement, etc. Rising economies mean more stuff to protect; therefore more rules.

You might take heart in America being on the economic decline. Less stuff and hard times means people will start to question the rules. Crime in the 1930s. Protest in the 1960s. Our recent recognition of this real and long term decline means other people digging in and desperately making and enforcing more rules. They'll prevail for awhile, but ultimately, these things are cyclical.

It's a pretty damn long cycle.

Dexters
06-28-2012, 15:17
You can leave, but what will you do if your new environment becomes like the place you left?

Consider also that economically rising Asian countries are somewhat starting to resemble America from 50 years ago. I see more identification, grade school rules, tax enforcement, etc. Rising economies mean more stuff to protect; therefore more rules.

You might take heart in America being on the economic decline. Less stuff and hard times means people will start to question the rules. Crime in the 1930s. Protest in the 1960s. Our recent recognition of this real and long term decline means other people digging in and desperately making and enforcing more rules. They'll prevail for awhile, but ultimately, these things are cyclical.

You are correct - over the long term. And over the long term we are all dead. The OP might find a place that works for him over his lifetime. But, I don't know of one.

Best I can thing about is very hard to do. Become a citizen of a country like Singapore (give up US citizenship). Then you can visit in the USA for 180 a year without any issues. Find another place(s) to stay the other days. The issue of work is still not solved.

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 15:19
& what country did you work in that the USA exempted from US tax laws.

Explain how you didn't pay USA taxes (see my post above for more info).

Middle east. Two years and made under the amount that they start taxing at, which then I believe was $80k and change.
I think you are referring to USA based companies. Mine was not.

On my iPhone, so I don't see anything in your post. I'll check when I get home.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 15:24
& what country did you work in that the USA exempted from US tax laws.

Explain how you didn't pay USA taxes (see my post above for more info).I don't know anything about lethalTxn's situation, but a lot of countries have tax treaties with the US so that workers don't "double pay" their taxes. Everything (in most cases) that they pay to that country comes off of their US tax bill. If that country has an equal or higher tax rate than the US, they end up paying the US nothing. But they're still paying taxes to someone.

Dexters
06-28-2012, 15:27
Middle east. Two years and made under the amount that they start taxing at, which then I believe was $80k and change.
I think you are referring to USA based companies. Mine was not.

On my iPhone, so I don't see anything in your post. I'll check when I get home.

Your income was subject to USA taxes - you just didn't make enough to pay a tax*. USA company or not does not make a difference. US citizens are required to report their income on their tax returns.

There is also a time requirement for the exemption - you can't be in the USA for more then 14 days/year (that might have changed from when I did it).

I hope you reported and filed it all correctly. If not you can submit amended returns.

*It is just like if you work in the USA, except with the personal and standard deduction - if you don't make enough you don't pay taxes.

brickboy240
06-28-2012, 15:29
Costa Rica is actually a worse choice than Switzerland.

I know a few Costa Ricans that live here and they basically say that maybe 10-15 years ago, it was a great place to live. But nowadays...surprise!....many wealthy Americans, Brits and Aussies have bought up much of the real estate and pushed the prices out of the range of most US middle class wage earners.

Not the cheap and easy paradise it once was. If you think Costa Rica is still do-able...you are running in information that is at least 10 years old.

Also, if US govt corruption bothers you....you will NOT escape that in Costa Rica, according to my sources.

Ruble Noon
06-28-2012, 15:30
The Yucatan peninsula seems ripe for the taking and I think there is enough firepower on GT to get it done.

Lethaltxn
06-28-2012, 15:32
Your income was subject to USA taxes - you just didn't make enough to pay a tax*. USA company or not does not make a difference. US citizens are required to report their income on their tax returns.

There is also a time requirement for the exemption - you can't be in the USA for more then 14 days/year (that might have changed from when I did it).

I hope you reported and filed it all correctly. If not you can submit amended returns.

*It is just like if you work in the USA, except with the personal and standard deduction - if you don't make enough you don't pay taxes.

That's how it was for us, I think. I thought it was 30 days, but no matter. My point is still accurate.
Depends on whee and how much.

Dexters
06-28-2012, 15:33
I don't know anything about lethalTxn's situation, but a lot of countries have tax treaties with the US so that workers don't "double pay" their taxes. Everything (in most cases) that they pay to that country comes off of their US tax bill. If that country has an equal or higher tax rate than the US, they end up paying the US nothing. But they're still paying taxes to someone.

Yes, and a lot of countries (like the UK, I think) don't tax the earnings of their citizens that they earn outside the country - this helps their citizens to get jobs overseas.

In the UK, for example, if you earned $1M working overseas they don't tax it (the country the UK citizen is working in might). The UK citizen then can come home and leave the money in an offshore account and still not get taxed. It isn't taxed until they bring the money into the country. All this is from memory from 15-20 years ago so it might have changed.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 15:35
Also, if US govt corruption bothers you....you will NOT escape that in Costa Rica, according to my sources.That's a very good point. If you get emotionally distressed at what our government is doing, moving to anywhere in Central America would drive you insane. Again, the solution is to be rich enough to have the corruption working for you, not against you. There's a dangerous middle ground of wealth where you're rich enough to be a target of all the corruption, but not rich enough to afford it.

Gundude
06-28-2012, 15:37
Yes, and a lot of countries (like the UK, I think) don't tax the earnings of their citizens that they earn outside the country - this helps their citizens to get jobs overseas.I think there are actually very few countries who tax their citizens after they've moved out of the country like the US does, except when they go back and forth enough that their real country of residence is in question.

brickboy240
06-28-2012, 15:45
Yeah...I am a resident of that "middle ground" and with this economy...don't see getting out of it.

427
06-28-2012, 15:51
Has is come to the point that one has to choose between running away or staying and trying to effect change?

Gundude
06-28-2012, 16:00
Yeah...I am a resident of that "middle ground" and with this economy...don't see getting out of it.I've been there too and in the US, I'd say that ground is the single-digit and low double-digit millions.

Everyone wants a piece of you, but you can't afford to buy anyone that matters off. Look at poor Bill Mahr who donated a paltry million dollars to Obama and gets nothing. If he wasn't so malicious and condescending, I'd feel bad for him.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
06-28-2012, 16:44
It's a pretty damn long cycle.

Contrary to a lot of opinion, I think change is very slow. We are just at the beginning of this, which is digging in by the status quo.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
06-28-2012, 16:44
Become a citizen of a country like Singapore...


:shocked:

NorthCarolinaLiberty
06-28-2012, 16:58
Think about it in terms of other things. Pick your issue. You hate your job and get another. Pretty soon that job sucks. You ditch your wife, only to latch on to something worse. You hate your small town, then pretty soon you hate all small towns.

Not saying you should never make change and things can't be better, but America is going down economically. It remains to be seen if we become more like England or more the Roman Empire. Factors are land mass, diversity of people, rapidity of dollar drop, etc. so who knows.

Dexters
06-28-2012, 17:17
It remains to be seen if we become more like England or more the Roman Empire. Factors are land mass, diversity of people, rapidity of dollar drop, etc. so who knows.

You bring up a good point about Rome. Italy was getting invaded towards the end but in the outlying areas had it worse. They were getting killed/enslaved.

The Eastern Empire remained in tact, so it was relatively good.

For England it was even better, unless you were in the military.

So, the Supreme Court decision has shown without a doubt which way the USA is heading.

A person needs to sit down and write the positives and negatives for living in the USA. On balance, it is still the best for the average person. Yes, you might pay a "tax" for not having health insurance. But, what is the total tax burden for living in the USA vs someplace else? Most, other 1st world countries have higher taxes.

We are talking about these changes now. I don't think we will really feel them for another 8-10 years when the economy is a bit better and taxes get raised and a VAT is started.

rgregoryb
06-28-2012, 17:50
Invade and take over some small Pacific Island or butthole country and appoint yourself dictator for life.

..

just wait here, we'll soon be a butthole country.......:whistling:

GWSHARK
06-29-2012, 10:17
Closer to NOLA than NOVA but I'd be happy to meet ya and buy you a beer anytime.

2nd rounds on me. :cheers:

Gundude
06-29-2012, 11:06
A person needs to sit down and write the positives and negatives for living in the USA. On balance, it is still the best for the average person. Yes, you might pay a "tax" for not having health insurance. But, what is the total tax burden for living in the USA vs someplace else? Most, other 1st world countries have higher taxes. Most other 1st world countries provide a lot more "services" for their taxes. The flip side of that coin is that you're paying most other 1st world governments to control a lot more of your life.

In the US, a large part of your tax bill goes into the pockets of military contractors, who don't care one bit what you do.

What Democrats are trying to do is redirect that money away from the military contractors and into more government "services" to control more of your life.

Republicans are happy to maintain the status quo and line the pockets of contractors, but they're increasingly seeing the value in controlling more of your life. The Bush years were an obvious attempt to do more of both, completely devoid of any concern about the damage spending that much borrowed money does to the nation.

What's obvious is that neither party is interested in letting you keep any of that money.

Lethaltxn
06-29-2012, 12:53
In the US, a large part of your tax bill goes into the pockets of military contractors, who don't care one bit what you do.

What Democrats are trying to do is redirect that money away from the military contractors and into more government "services" to control more of your life.

Republicans are happy to maintain the status quo and line the pockets of contractors, but they're increasingly seeing the value in controlling more of your life. The Bush years were an obvious attempt to do more of both, completely devoid of any concern about the damage spending that much borrowed money does to the nation.

What's obvious is that neither party is interested in letting you keep any of that money.

I'd love to see some documentation on that.