I Do Not Consent To Be Governed [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ruble Noon
06-29-2012, 05:14
http://lewrockwell.com/yk/dont-consent-to-be-governed.html

Sam Spade
06-29-2012, 06:42
Fine. You're an outlaw, and we can whack you and take your stuff whenever we feel like it.

If you want to remove yourself from the social contract, have the guts to do go about it with the classic flair. Don't hide behind the protections of the system you despise.

(Generic "you" above, applicable only to those who want to hoist the black flag.)

aircarver
06-29-2012, 06:44
Watch out for drones ! ......:shocked:

.

eracer
06-29-2012, 06:51
Buh-BYE!

Cavalry Doc
06-29-2012, 07:01
When he says that government cannot govern without the consent of the governed. In reality, that is a group consent, not an individual event.

I have a lot less problem with people that say they want to opt out, if they fully opt out. Which means no use of taxpayer funded amenities, such as roads, internet, subsidized food and energy etc. Buy a patch if land, disconnect from the grid, don't use police, fire and public EMS, stay off the roads, and live truly free with my blessing.

JBnTX
06-29-2012, 07:09
There's quite a few people in prison who thought they could secede from government control.

..

barbedwiresmile
06-29-2012, 07:26
I have a lot less problem with people that say they want to opt out, if they fully opt out. Which means no use of taxpayer funded amenities, such as roads, internet, subsidized food and energy etc. Buy a patch if land, disconnect from the grid, don't use police, fire and public EMS, stay off the roads, and live truly free with my blessing.

That's not allowed.

Bren
06-29-2012, 07:31
http://lewrockwell.com/yk/dont-consent-to-be-governed.html

There's a lot of wiggle room in what he says. First "consent of the governed" is collective, not individual, so you can't opt out (or else every criminal would do so, for example). Second, the government doesn't have to be "righteous" to rule, it just has to have sufficient force to kill you, which it does.

Sam Spade
06-29-2012, 07:36
That's not allowed.

I note that the southern fence still isn't built.

And black cloth is probably on sale near you. (Again, generic)

JAS104
06-29-2012, 07:36
See how well that goes.
Good luck with that.

Cavalry Doc
06-29-2012, 07:37
That's not allowed.

It's allowed by me, for what that's worth. With great freedom comes great responsibility. Most of the sovereign citizens I've run into are not avoiding the use of roads and other taxpayer funded items.

barbedwiresmile
06-29-2012, 07:42
GT moment of truth:

...the government doesn't have to be "righteous" to rule, it just has to have sufficient force to kill you, which it does.

That's what it comes down to.

barbedwiresmile
06-29-2012, 07:45
I note that the southern fence still isn't built.

And black cloth is probably on sale near you. (Again, generic)

An invitation to leave the country of my birth is unbecoming of your posting style.

I am merely commenting (per my post above) on the reality of the situation.

The facts are that the state is in complete control (monopoly on force) and that yesterday's ruling severs any practical shackles on the actions of the federal state.

Those advocating "opting out" are not thinking clearly, and are not apparently well informed regarding the nature of the state.

Sam Spade
06-29-2012, 08:10
An invitation to leave the country of my birth is unbecoming of your posting style.

I am merely commenting (per my post above) on the reality of the situation.

The facts are that the state is in complete control (monopoly on force) and that yesterday's ruling severs any practical shackles on the actions of the federal state.

Those advocating "opting out" are not thinking clearly, and are not apparently well informed regarding the nature of the state.
As was I. Those saying that there are no options are also missing the reality. If you (yet again, generic) believe that you can't change things within the system, you can leave or revolt. Otherwise, by process of elimination, you *do* consent to be governed.

Cavalry Doc
06-29-2012, 09:45
GT moment of truth:



That's what it comes down to.

Can you describe that moment and the options

barbedwiresmile
06-29-2012, 09:56
Can you describe that moment and the options

I'm not sure I understand your meaning. My post, with the attached quote, was reaffirming the fundamental truth that a government's mandate to rule is based on its monopoly on force or, as Bren stated, its ability "to kill you."

I didn't list any other options because there are none. The state is not static. Rather, it is a dynamic that, once set into motion, moves along the same trajectory as all governments always have (and always will). We are simply along for the ride at this point.

certifiedfunds
06-29-2012, 09:56
When he says that government cannot govern without the consent of the governed. In reality, that is a group consent, not an individual event.

I have a lot less problem with people that say they want to opt out, if they fully opt out. Which means no use of taxpayer funded amenities, such as roads, internet, subsidized food and energy etc. Buy a patch if land, disconnect from the grid, don't use police, fire and public EMS, stay off the roads, and live truly free with my blessing.

Ruby Ridge

Cavalry Doc
06-29-2012, 10:02
Ruby Ridge

Well I certainly don't agree with how that was handled. It was only my blessing, I certainly do not speak for or control the federal government.

pugman
06-29-2012, 10:18
When he says that government cannot govern without the consent of the governed. In reality, that is a group consent, not an individual event.

I have a lot less problem with people that say they want to opt out, if they fully opt out. Which means no use of taxpayer funded amenities, such as roads, internet, subsidized food and energy etc. Buy a patch if land, disconnect from the grid, don't use police, fire and public EMS, stay off the roads, and live truly free with my blessing.

I have been pondering this for a while.

Let's say the federal government came up to you tomorrow with a buyout offer. They will refund any social security money you ever paid in (employer matched funds stay); you never have to pay federal income taxes again, will never be covered by Medicare or Medicaid, etc. I understand their reach: national parks, roads, the post office, etc. I understand your past military affiliation makes this a difficult question to objectively answer. (BTW, thank you for your past service)

However, there is a twist to this - you can STILL receive mail since the sender has paid the postage. I can receive police and fire protection if I am sent a bill I am willing to pay if I use their services; I can employ private driving companies who pay their taxes for the privilege to drive on the roads, etc.

The roads are a great example. You have paid in your taxes and they still now want to pass a tax for every mile you drive? If you are in the car as a passenger of someone who has consented to be governed are we now saying the fed can enforce its will on who rides in your car?

If I choose not to be governed does this mean I can enforce my own form of common sense justice?

And remember, regardless of where the patch of land is some local government will want you to pay property taxes.

The government is a legalized and condoned mob. As the recent healthcare "scandal" has just proved...they are slowly inching their way into every aspect of our lives.

I'm waiting for the day a federal official knocks on my door with a family of 6 in tow and says "Mr Pugman, this is the X family who YOU are know responsible for taking care of. If you choose not to do so we or they will sue you and take everything you own and give it to them anyway."

Lets be honest: the federal government would never allow its subjects to revolt like this.

kirgi08
06-29-2012, 10:29
I better not.'08.

Ruble Noon
06-29-2012, 14:33
Fine. You're an outlaw, and we can whack you and take your stuff whenever we feel like it.

If you want to remove yourself from the social contract, have the guts to do go about it with the classic flair. Don't hide behind the protections of the system you despise.

(Generic "you" above, applicable only to those who want to hoist the black flag.)

For sure. One thing we have no shortage of is JBT's willing to do the tyrannical governments bidding.

cowboywannabe
06-29-2012, 14:46
simple solution, dont like the government here?; vote for a new one or leave. but if you stay here you will be governed here.

Ruble Noon
06-29-2012, 14:49
simple solution, dont like the government here?; vote for a new one or leave. but if you stay here you will be governed here.

Why can't you all leave and take all those people that you brought with you?

certifiedfunds
06-29-2012, 16:28
Well I certainly don't agree with how that was handled. It was only my blessing, I certainly do not speak for or control the federal government.

My point being, Randy Weaver tried to do exactly what you described but federal agents enticed him to commit a crime and then murdered his wife and child.

Sam Spade
06-29-2012, 16:31
My point being, Randy Weaver tried to do exactly what you described but federal agents enticed him to commit a crime and then murdered his wife and child.

Your chronology is off. First, he committed his crime. Then he tried to remove himself from society.

certifiedfunds
06-29-2012, 16:35
Your chronology is off. First, he committed his crime. Then he tried to remove himself from society.

You sure Sam? I believe the weavers lived on the mountain when the government enticed him to shorten a shotgun to a (supposedly) illegal length.

Ruble Noon
06-29-2012, 16:38
You sure Sam? I believe the weavers lived on the mountain when the government enticed him to shorten a shotgun to a (supposedly) illegal length.

I believe the government actually shortened the shotgun.

Sam Spade
06-29-2012, 16:48
You sure Sam? I believe the weavers lived on the mountain when the government enticed him to shorten a shotgun to a (supposedly) illegal length.

I believe the government actually shortened the shotgun.

He lived on the mountain, but came down regularly, even running for office. It was the hope of using those trips and presumed ongoing attendance at White Power meetings that made ATF try to use him, He cut the shotgun down, at ATF's urging. Got arrested on one of his trips down, swore that would never happen again, then entered his recluse phase.

Ruble Noon
06-29-2012, 17:07
He lived on the mountain, but came down regularly, even running for office. It was the hope of using those trips and presumed ongoing attendance at White Power meetings that made ATF try to use him, He cut the shotgun down, at ATF's urging. Got arrested on one of his trips down, swore that would never happen again, then entered his recluse phase.

He cut it down and then ATF did a little more making it illegal. At least that is my recollection as according to Weaver.

Philo Beddoe
06-29-2012, 17:20
When he says that government cannot govern without the consent of the governed. In reality, that is a group consent, not an individual event.

I have a lot less problem with people that say they want to opt out, if they fully opt out. Which means no use of taxpayer funded amenities, such as roads, internet, subsidized food and energy etc. Buy a patch if land, disconnect from the grid, don't use police, fire and public EMS, stay off the roads, and live truly free with my blessing.

Does that infer a refund of all taxes paid for said infrastructure by the secedor, minus that which can reasonably be assumed to have been consumed by him?

kirgi08
06-29-2012, 17:56
My point being, Randy Weaver tried to do exactly what you described but federal agents enticed him to commit a crime and then murdered his wife and child.

I was trying ta stay outta this. Every time we have a questionable AG we have these type of incidents, Reno/Holder ect..'08.

chickenwing
06-29-2012, 18:30
Does that infer a refund of all taxes paid for said infrastructure by the secedor, minus that which can reasonably be assumed to have been consumed by him?


Nope, you are just tax live stock, GTFO and go to another farm if you don't like it.

QNman
06-29-2012, 21:34
I have bad news for you, Ruble. You need not consent. And leaving would do you no favor, as no matter where you land, you will be subjected to some form of governing with or without your consent.

Sorry, old friend. That's just the world we live in.

kirgi08
06-29-2012, 21:51
Ignoring is a option.'08.

SDDL-UP
06-29-2012, 23:01
Cavalry Doc,

The problem isn't that people won't "opt out" it's that the govenrment really won't let them "opt out" - really.

There is no way the government can or will let people opt out.

cowboywannabe
06-30-2012, 02:04
Why can't you all leave and take all those people that you brought with you?

i was born here, and didnt bring anybody with me.

Cavalry Doc
06-30-2012, 06:05
I have been pondering this for a while.

Let's say the federal government came up to you tomorrow with a buyout offer. They will refund any social security money you ever paid in (employer matched funds stay); you never have to pay federal income taxes again, will never be covered by Medicare or Medicaid, etc. I understand their reach: national parks, roads, the post office, etc. I understand your past military affiliation makes this a difficult question to objectively answer. (BTW, thank you for your past service)

However, there is a twist to this - you can STILL receive mail since the sender has paid the postage. I can receive police and fire protection if I am sent a bill I am willing to pay if I use their services; I can employ private driving companies who pay their taxes for the privilege to drive on the roads, etc.

The roads are a great example. You have paid in your taxes and they still now want to pass a tax for every mile you drive? If you are in the car as a passenger of someone who has consented to be governed are we now saying the fed can enforce its will on who rides in your car?

If I choose not to be governed does this mean I can enforce my own form of common sense justice?

And remember, regardless of where the patch of land is some local government will want you to pay property taxes.

The government is a legalized and condoned mob. As the recent healthcare "scandal" has just proved...they are slowly inching their way into every aspect of our lives.

I'm waiting for the day a federal official knocks on my door with a family of 6 in tow and says "Mr Pugman, this is the X family who YOU are know responsible for taking care of. If you choose not to do so we or they will sue you and take everything you own and give it to them anyway."

Lets be honest: the federal government would never allow its subjects to revolt like this.

Gets kinda complicated real quick huh?

That's the point. In reality, it's almost impossible to not deal with other people. There's about 6.5 billion of them on the planet, and most of them have organized into groups that have rules that covers people in certain areas.

In fairness, if you don't want to follow the rules of the group in that area, you should strive in every way not to be a leech on their group.

Like the letter. We all know the postal service operates in the red. If they have to pay the driver to bring you the letter, yes it's a drain on the system and a handout no self respecting truly independant guy would accept.

It's a nice fantasy, to have big brother off your back. Most of the guys that don't want taxes or rules, are still planning on using the extra money they have to live better in the society, receiving all the benefits, but relieving themselves of all the contributions.

Such is the way of fantasy, as you try to make it reality, it just doesn't work too well. Same goes for that Swedish bikini team fantasy for the guys that are happily married to someone that expects monogamy. Sounds awesome, till you start factoring in reality, both present and future.

Cavalry Doc
06-30-2012, 06:29
Does that infer a refund of all taxes paid for said infrastructure by the secedor, minus that which can reasonably be assumed to have been consumed by him?

No, you have to pay your share of the national debt on the way out.

:rofl:

It's a fantasy, not a plan.

Cavalry Doc
06-30-2012, 06:32
Cavalry Doc,

The problem isn't that people won't "opt out" it's that the govenrment really won't let them "opt out" - really.

There is no way the government can or will let people opt out.

Reality is the problem. No matter where you go, there you are.
Alone, with the 6.5 billion other people on the planet.