Need help identifying some old guns. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Engine30
06-30-2012, 07:29
Hi guys, I've got some old guns that I need you all to look at and tell me what they are. They're actually a buddy of mines and I told him if anyone knew they'd be in this forum. Anyways, here's the first one, it's a Colt but I don't know what model. There's more, and I'll of post pics them, but I'll get started here.

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/ElevenDashOne/leonggun3.png

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/ElevenDashOne/Leonggun2.png



http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/ElevenDashOne/leonggun6-1.jpg

Jim Watson
06-30-2012, 08:07
You show a Browning .22 Automatic Rifle. I don't know that it ever had any other model name or number, it was the only one they made for many, many years. Looks like a Leupold scope, which makes it a very nice little outfit.

I think the revolver is a Colt Police Positive Target model, but it might be the even older New Police Target. Caliber .22LR would be nice for shooting, .32 NP (=.32 S&W Long) probably the least common, .22 WRF pretty common and ammo takes a bit of searching.

Close up pictures of the markings on uncommon guns will be a big help identifying them.

Engine30
06-30-2012, 10:09
Thanks for the quick info! I've got a few more guns to post when I get back to the station.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

WiskyT
06-30-2012, 12:34
Putting a scope on that Browning is like putting 26" rims on a 3.8 litre XKE convertible.

failsafe
06-30-2012, 13:07
Yep the rifle is a Browning 22 cal takedown..It looks like a grade 1...Here is a pic of my grade II..
Note the difference in the stock finish, gold trigger and etching on the reciever..
On the old ones the date of mfgr was the first 2 digits of the serial #...It changed once they were no longer made in Belgium... Mine is a 1970..Belgium made Browning..
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa96/litenlarry/DSC00446.jpg

WiskyT
06-30-2012, 13:14
Yep the rifle is a Browning 22 cal takedown..It looks like a grade 1...Here is a pic of my grade II..
Note the difference in the stock finish, gold trigger and etching on the reciever..
On the old ones the date of mfgr was the first 2 digits of the serial #...It changed once they were no longer made in Belgium... Mine is a 1970..Belgium made Browning..
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa96/litenlarry/DSC00446.jpg

Nice! Is that some kind of satin nickel on the receiver, or is it just the picture?

failsafe
06-30-2012, 13:18
Nice! Is that some kind of satin nickel on the receiver, or is it just the picture?

Yes the grade II and III's did not have the blued reciever..I would call it a satin finish, with etchings of small animals on the sides..

WiskyT
06-30-2012, 13:22
Yes the grade II and III's did not have the blued reciever..I would call it a satin finish, with etchings of small animals on the sides..

Thanks. I've only seen the blued grade I versions. When you're eight years old, you learn not to let your weak side forearm drop under the action while firing, at least not with short sleeves on.

failsafe
06-30-2012, 13:30
I found the info I was looking for as far as dating your 22..It's all in the serial number...
22 Semi-Auto Rifle..
My serial # begins with a 70T..Look below to date yours..


The production of the 22 Semi-Auto rifle began in 1914, and was officially imported by Browning in 1956. It is still in production today.



1914-1955

F.N. began production of the 22 Semi-Auto Rifle.

No serial numbers are available.



1956-1967

In 1961, the codes for calibers were changed:
T=Long Rifle Caliber
E=Short Rifle Caliber
Example: 8T1000 = A 1968 22 Long Rifle Caliber Semi-Auto Rifle with serial number 1000.

T=Long Rifle Caliber
E=Short Rifle Caliber



1969-73

1969 started using two digits for the date of manufacture:
T=Long Rifle Caliber
E=Short Rifle Caliber
This was then followed by the serial number beginning with 1000.
Example: 69T1000 = A 1969 22 Semi-Auto rifle in 22 Long Rifle Caliber with a serial number of 1000.

T=Long Rifle Caliber
E=Short Rifle Caliber



1974

In 1974, production of the 22 Semi-Auto was moved to Miroku, Japan. The order of the serial number code was changed to:
1.Serial Number which started at 1000 for each year.
2. Two digit year code
3. Rifle type code:
T=Long Rifle Caliber
E=Short Rifle Caliber

Example: 1000T74 = A 1974 22 Semi-Auto rifle in 22 Long Rifle Caliber with a serial number of 1000.

T=Long Rifle Caliber



1976-1997

In 1976, Browning standardized its serial number identification.



1. Serial Number
beginning with 01001
at the start of each year.




2. Date of Manufacture
is a two-digit code

Z=1
Y=2
X=3
W=4
V=5
T=6
R=7
P=8
N=9
M=0



3. 22 Semi-Auto Type

146=Grade 1
246=Grade 2
346=Grade 3
646=Grade 6





Serial
Number Example:
01001RT646

This would be a 22 Semi-Auto Grade 6 rifle, manufactured in 1976 with the serial number 1000.



1999

In 1998, Browning revised the standardization of its serial number system to work with a new data base.



1. Serial Number
beginning with 01001
at the start of each year.




2. Date of Manufacture
is a two-digit code

Z=1
Y=2
X=3
W=4
V=5
T=6
R=7
P=8
N=9
M=0



3. 22 Semi-Auto Type

212=22 Semi-Auto Rifle





Serial
Number Example:
01001NN212
This would be a 22 Semi-Auto Rifle, manufactured in 1999 with the serial number 01001.

MrMurphy
06-30-2012, 14:33
That Browning has a magazine tube in the stock.

Really, REALLY check it's clear several times. Had an idiot nearly put a round into the ceiling of a gunshop once. Thankfully I stopped him in time, and in his defense he did not know the magazine tube was there, and he HAD checked the chamber (once).

failsafe
06-30-2012, 15:01
That Browning has a magazine tube in the stock.

Really, REALLY check it's clear several times. Had an idiot nearly put a round into the ceiling of a gunshop once. Thankfully I stopped him in time, and in his defense he did not know the magazine tube was there, and he HAD checked the chamber (once).

Good point...Yes the butt fed magazine tube should be removed, then the weapon cycled a few times..On some of the older rifles stored for a time, there may be an expanded cartridge or such...Point in a safe direction and clear the rifle, if you do not know the procedure, ask for assistance..

WiskyT
06-30-2012, 15:05
I keep a lightly oiled cleaning patch sticking half out of the bolt to act as a chamber "flag" since there's no bolt hold open.

Engine30
06-30-2012, 16:09
Thanks for the replies fellas, you've given me some great information to pass on to my friend. I'm uploading the shotgun photos and other revolvers. I'll have them on in a few. The connection at our station is frickin SLOW!!!!

WiskyT
06-30-2012, 16:14
Also, some (most) leather holsters are really bad to store a gun in. Most old revolvers were put up by grandpa in a holster and 20 years later someone digs it out and finds a gun rusted into the holster. There is acid or something that is used to tan the leather that is bad news for long term storage. Advise your buddy not to store that nice Colt in a holster.

Engine30
06-30-2012, 16:49
Also, some (most) leather holsters are really bad to store a gun in. Most old revolvers were put up by grandpa in a holster and 20 years later someone digs it out and finds a gun rusted into the holster. There is acid or something that is used to tan the leather that is bad news for long term storage. Advise your buddy not to store that nice Colt in a holster.

Thanks, I had no idea about that.

I'm fairly new to guns, and my friend knows that guns go bang.

Here's the pics of the others.

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/ElevenDashOne/leongsg3.png

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/ElevenDashOne/LeongSG.png

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/ElevenDashOne/leongsg2.png


http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/ElevenDashOne/leonggun5-1.png

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii628/ElevenDashOne/leonggun4-1.png

Engine30
06-30-2012, 16:53
Yep the rifle is a Browning 22 cal takedown..It looks like a grade 1...Here is a pic of my grade II..
Note the difference in the stock finish, gold trigger and etching on the reciever..
On the old ones the date of mfgr was the first 2 digits of the serial #...It changed once they were no longer made in Belgium... Mine is a 1970..Belgium made Browning..
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa96/litenlarry/DSC00446.jpg

I don't think his is a II, It looks like a I. What would be the average price for one in as good condition as yours? It looks pretty nice!

I'm thinking that he's going to want to sell all but the shotgun and I'm thinking about buying the rifle from him.

WiskyT
06-30-2012, 16:57
First thing I'd do is make sure the scope mounting didn't bugger up the gun. See if he'll let you remove it so you can check out what's under it. There is a folding leaf rear sight that may have been removed as well.

Engine30
06-30-2012, 17:06
First thing I'd do is make sure the scope mounting didn't bugger up the gun. See if he'll let you remove it so you can check out what's under it. There is a folding leaf rear sight that may have been removed as well.


He'll have it in his possession pretty soon, and I'll get a chance to take a close look at it. If the sight has been removed, I'm assuming that a replacement wouldn't be too hard to find?

Also, does mounting a sight like that do possible damage to the finish of the gun?

Thanks

WiskyT
06-30-2012, 17:15
He'll have it in his possession pretty soon, and I'll get a chance to take a close look at it. If the sight has been removed, I'm assuming that a replacement wouldn't be too hard to find?

Also, does mounting a sight like that do possible damage to the finish of the gun?

Thanks

The sight might be there. It folds down and would be hard to see in the pic. Parts are still available from Browning as they still make the gun. I got a couple of small parts recently from them. Commonly missing from them is the shell stop as it falls free when the bolt is removed. I was missing that and one of the scope base screws that are used as blanks to fill the factory drilled and tapped holes.

If the scope was mounted properly, it should be okay. It really takes away from the gun though. The gun is like toothpick. It's really graceful and svelte. You'll appreciate it when you pick it up in your hands. Also, I don't know if you can take the gun down with the scope on there like that. The scope is mounted to the barrel and the barrel has to rotate 90* to be removed. The scope base might hit the top of the receiver if the barrel is rotated.

Engine30
06-30-2012, 18:54
I'm thinking that the shotgun is a winchester model 21. If I'm incorrect please let me know. I've been looking for shotguns that are similar to the pic, and that's the one that seems most like the posted here.

Thanks

MrMurphy
06-30-2012, 19:52
The two revolvers are hard to ID, they're common 'cheap gun' models from the early 20th century but without the markings, can't ID closer.

The folding trigger was common on a lot of revolvers.

failsafe
07-01-2012, 04:01
I don't think his is a II, It looks like a I. What would be the average price for one in as good condition as yours? It looks pretty nice!

I'm thinking that he's going to want to sell all but the shotgun and I'm thinking about buying the rifle from him.

I value mine at $1,200..Here is one similar to mine on Guns America..
http://www.gunsamerica.com/959020293/Guns/Rifles/Browning-Rifles/Semi-Auto/Hunting/Browning_Gd_II_Beligum_22LR_takedown.htm#

You might check that Guns America site, they have similar rifles as your Grade I, in good condition for around 600 bucks and up...Keep in mind this is just a tool to be used in approximating your rifles value...A serial number would be helpfull as well..The ones made in Japan are cheaper..

fnfalman
07-01-2012, 04:32
The Colt wheelgun is in what caliber? It's a target model of some sort because of the adjustable rear sight. Too big to be a Police Positive though, even for a heavy frame Police Positive. Maybe an Official Police? It's definitely older though because of the hard rubber grips.

mac66
07-01-2012, 07:37
No offense but did you actually look on the guns themselves? They will tell you what they are, or at least who made them, a caliber and usually a model number. Once you got that it would be easier for use to fill in the blanks.

BTW, the blued revolver is an Iver Johnson, probably a .32 though could be an a .38 S&W (short) but of course you could just look at it to see what it says.:upeyes:

Jim Watson
07-01-2012, 08:58
The shotgun has a Winchester recoil pad but those are available aftermarket, and it may not be a Winchester Model 21 gun. The "round knob" pistol grip is not typical and the single trigger does not have the selector button that is usual for a M21.

As said, you are going to have to read out or photograph the markings.

The little nickel plated folding trigger revolver is one of a multitude of cheap guns from the late 19th - early 20th century. Likely Belgian made but they came from all over.

The little blue revolver is an Iver Johnson, I think either .22 or .32, not .38.

Stevekozak
07-01-2012, 09:44
No offense but did you actually look on the guns themselves? They will tell you what they are, or at least who made them, a caliber and usually a model number. Once you got that it would be easier for use to fill in the blanks.

BTW, the blued revolver is an Iver Johnson, probably a .32 though could be an a .38 S&W (short) but of course you could just look at it to see what it says.:upeyes:
It appears from his posts that these guns are not in his possession, but he has, perhaps, been sent pics of them, which he has posted here for help in IDing them. Your eyerolling smiley is cute, but not very helpful. :wavey: