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hogship
06-30-2012, 18:35
I haven't seen this discussed recently, but there were prior efforts to link gun ownership to a "health risk" that didn't fly.

Now, I'm wondering if we will see a renewed effort to deny our rkba on a health basis, now that health care will no longer be a choice, but a government controlled entity........

ooc

Ruble Noon
06-30-2012, 18:47
I haven't seen this discussed recently, but there were prior efforts to link gun ownership to a "health risk" that didn't fly.

Now, I'm wondering if we will see a renewed effort to deny our rkba on a health basis, now that health care will no longer be a choice, but a government controlled entity........

ooc

The government has deemed firearms in the home to be a health and safety risk. Pay your fine, er tax, yeah tax or lose your weapons. If you do not pay the fine, I mean tax, JBT's will kick in your door and forcibly confiscate said weapons.

Gundude
06-30-2012, 19:28
Why would you think the government would need Obamacare as a cover for gun confiscation? Do you think the people who wouldn't allow their guns to be taken before will suddenly allow it under the guise of health care?

Defending gun rights is a never ending battle. It's one we are currently winning where it matters most: getting guns into the hands of lots and lots of everyday Joes and Janes.

Look at the transformation over the last 25 years:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Rtc.gif

The gun grabbers will always use any excuse available to them to try to grab guns. Currently, they are failing pretty handily. They may try to twist Obamacare into some sort of gun-grabbing tool, but it'll be no easier for them than any of their other attempts. In fact it's getting harder for them every day, because the number of people who are onto their charade is growing every day.

Philo Beddoe
07-01-2012, 06:36
Why would you think the government would need Obamacare as a cover for gun confiscation? Do you think the people who wouldn't allow their guns to be taken before will suddenly allow it under the guise of health care?

Defending gun rights is a never ending battle. It's one we are currently winning where it matters most: getting guns into the hands of lots and lots of everyday Joes and Janes.

Look at the transformation over the last 25 years:



The gun grabbers will always use any excuse available to them to try to grab guns. Currently, they are failing pretty handily. They may try to twist Obamacare into some sort of gun-grabbing tool, but it'll be no easier for them than any of their other attempts. In fact it's getting harder for them every day, because the number of people who are onto their charade is growing every day.

I have grown quite comfortable with a moderate level of paranoia. It helps me justify buying more guns & ammo, and has allowed me to get into some fun TEOTAWKI reality shows on The History channel.

Besides, what is better than every event in life making you feel like you need another gun? Heck, just this morning my wife commented on the road construction in our town - my response: Yeah, makes me want to buy another gun. Weatherman said another day of triple-digit temps, and I say that makes me want to buy another gun. McDonalds failed to leave the pickles off my Quarter Pounder With Cheese? That's right, makes me want to buy another gun.

Please don't upset that finely-tuned balance.

cowboywannabe
07-01-2012, 06:54
dude, your map is not correct. Alabama and Connecticut are both may issue states.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 06:56
The government has deemed firearms in the home to be a health and safety risk. Pay your fine, er tax, yeah tax or lose your weapons. If you do not pay the fine, I mean tax, JBT's will kick in your door and forcibly confiscate said weapons.

It's bad enough without having to make stuff up.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 06:58
I have grown quite comfortable with a moderate level of paranoia. It helps me justify buying more guns & ammo, and has allowed me to get into some fun TEOTAWKI reality shows on The History channel.

Besides, what is better than every event in life making you feel like you need another gun? Heck, just this morning my wife commented on the road construction in our town - my response: Yeah, makes me want to buy another gun. Weatherman said another day of triple-digit temps, and I say that makes me want to buy another gun. McDonalds failed to leave the pickles off my Quarter Pounder With Cheese? That's right, makes me want to buy another gun.

Please don't upset that finely-tuned balance.

Just checking, but was that an attempt at humor, or are you serious. :dunno:

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 07:00
I haven't seen this discussed recently, but there were prior efforts to link gun ownership to a "health risk" that didn't fly.

Now, I'm wondering if we will see a renewed effort to deny our rkba on a health basis, now that health care will no longer be a choice, but a government controlled entity........

ooc

It's a little long, but worth the read...... This is GOA'a answer to your question.

http://gunowners.org/fs2011a.htm

eracer
07-01-2012, 07:08
Absolutely a gun-control scenario. However, for it to work they would need registration.

Which is why ANY form of registration is the most dangerous violation of our 2A rights, and why the current plot to enact the 'Ammunition Accountability Act' in various states must be attacked and exposed as the firearm confiscation plan that it really is.

Firearm registration is the biggie, the linchpin, the one thing that would immediately give control to the gun-grabbers, and the most important thing we must fight against.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 07:26
Absolutely a gun-control scenario. However, for it to work they would need registration.

Which is why ANY form of registration is the most dangerous violation of our 2A rights, and why the current plot to enact the 'Ammunition Accountability Act' in various states must be attacked and exposed as the firearm confiscation plan that it really is.

Firearm registration is the biggie, the linchpin, the one thing that would immediately give control to the gun-grabbers, and the most important thing we must fight against.

The first step is actually easy. Just report all the "mental defectives" to the NICS. Poof, no more buying guns for you.......

I often warn people applying for certain types of disability. Be careful what you ask for, you might get it.

You might want to read this. Prepper Declared Mentally Defective - Put on FBI List. (http://www.infowars.com/prepper-declared-mentally-defective-put-on-fbi-list/)

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 07:33
Absolutely a gun-control scenario. However, for it to work they would need registration.

Which is why ANY form of registration is the most dangerous violation of our 2A rights, and why the current plot to enact the 'Ammunition Accountability Act' in various states must be attacked and exposed as the firearm confiscation plan that it really is.

Firearm registration is the biggie, the linchpin, the one thing that would immediately give control to the gun-grabbers, and the most important thing we must fight against.

Here you go.

Effective January 1, 2012, the national healthcare legislation passed by Congress contains tax provisions that will require gun dealers to report to the IRS their purchases of guns and any other goods valued over $600. This reporting will be required for purchases from either individuals or corporations. The new IRS provisions apply to all goods and services. IRS 1099 forms will have to be filed, reporting the purchase by the gun dealer. (This same IRS issue exists for gold and silver bullion dealers, coin dealers, knife dealers, car dealers or any other business that buys goods from a person.)

http://www.pgnh.org/obamacare_s_hidden_gun_control

G17Jake
07-01-2012, 08:54
Why would you think the government would need Obamacare as a cover for gun confiscation? Do you think the people who wouldn't allow their guns to be taken before will suddenly allow it under the guise of health care?

Defending gun rights is a never ending battle. It's one we are currently winning where it matters most: getting guns into the hands of lots and lots of everyday Joes and Janes.

Look at the transformation over the last 25 years:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Rtc.gif

The gun grabbers will always use any excuse available to them to try to grab guns. Currently, they are failing pretty handily. They may try to twist Obamacare into some sort of gun-grabbing tool, but it'll be no easier for them than any of their other attempts. In fact it's getting harder for them every day, because the number of people who are onto their charade is growing every day.

The state that put Obama into politics is the lone red state.

jeanderson
07-01-2012, 10:57
I have grown quite comfortable with a moderate level of paranoia. It helps me justify buying more guns & ammo, and has allowed me to get into some fun TEOTAWKI reality shows on The History channel.

Besides, what is better than every event in life making you feel like you need another gun? Heck, just this morning my wife commented on the road construction in our town - my response: Yeah, makes me want to buy another gun. Weatherman said another day of triple-digit temps, and I say that makes me want to buy another gun. McDonalds failed to leave the pickles off my Quarter Pounder With Cheese? That's right, makes me want to buy another gun.

Please don't upset that finely-tuned balance.

At first I laughed at this, but I feel exactly the same way. I've got a growing list of guns I want and I'm just working my way down that list.

6 months ago, I didn't own a gun (I'm over 50). Now I own two pistols and am picking up my first rifle this week. What drove me to get a gun? It's the sense I get that the government is just constantly whittling away at our liberty - and the right to bear arms is one of them.

Every time I buy a gun, I feel two things:
1) I'm exercising my Constitutional right.
2) I'm sticking it in the eye of every anti-gun, progressive idiot out there that wants to take away my guns.

Back to the original subject of this post, I don't know that Obamacare is an attempt at gun control but Obama is clearly against guns. Fast & furious was all about gun control.

janice6
07-01-2012, 10:58
It's OK, it's a TAX. Watch them TAX our guns away, cause it's OK, it's a TAX.

Kingarthurhk
07-01-2012, 11:09
All my guns tragically died in a boating accident....:supergrin:

hogship
07-01-2012, 11:59
It's a little long, but worth the read...... This is GOA'a answer to your question.

http://gunowners.org/fs2011a.htm

Thank you very much, Cavalry Doc........

This just makes me all the more suspicious of the long range intentions of Obamacare, with specific consideration of our 2nd Amendment rights.

......Keep your ear to the ground, friends! :steamed:

ooc

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 12:07
Thank you very much, Cavalry Doc........

This just makes me all the more suspicious of the long range intentions of Obamacare, with specific consideration of our 2nd Amendment rights.

......Keep your ear to the ground, friends! :steamed:

ooc

For what? Are people going to revolt, riot etc. when/if they come for our guns? No.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 12:09
Thank you very much, Cavalry Doc........

This just makes me all the more suspicious of the long range intentions of Obamacare, with specific consideration of our 2nd Amendment rights.

......Keep your ear to the ground, friends! :steamed:

ooc

It goes beyond even the second amendment. Benevolent bureaucrats are going to be going through your medical records trying to help everyone all at the same time, and making business decisions for the collective.

It's a recipe for bad things.

hogship
07-01-2012, 12:12
For what? Are people going to revolt, riot etc. when/if they come for our guns? No.

Who said anything about revolting and rioting?

What an ignorant comment.......:wavey:

What I was talking about is being aware, so that we can act lawfully to prevent the gun-grabbers before any problem gets started.......

ooc

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 12:15
Who said anything about revolting and rioting?

What an ignorant comment.......:wavey:

What I was talking about is being aware, so that we can act lawfully to prevent the gun-grabbers before any problem gets started.......

ooc

And what are you going to do with this awareness if/when they come for your guns? Nothing. How are you going to prevent the gun grabbers with your prior knowledge?

hogship
07-01-2012, 12:19
And what are you going to do with this awareness if/when they come for your guns? Nothing. How are you going to prevent the gun grabbers with your prior knowledge?

.....wrong!

I will do something, as many others will do......pressure those who represent us to act on our behalf, as well as vote for those who will.

......An equally ignorant comment! :wavey:

ooc

hogship
07-01-2012, 12:22
It goes beyond even the second amendment. Benevolent bureaucrats are going to be going through your medical records trying to help everyone all at the same time, and making business decisions for the collective.

It's a recipe for bad things.

Yes, I believe you are correct, Doc........:supergrin:

ooc

Fred Hansen
07-01-2012, 14:02
It goes beyond even the second amendment. Benevolent bureaucrats are going to be going through your medical records trying to help everyone all at the same time, and making business decisions for the collective.

It's a recipe for bad things.There isn't a single thing that can't be deduced--by solid fact, or educated guess, or fabricated implication--from a person's medical records.

All the boozers, dopers, closet (insert your favorite deviant behavior here) got a heap big bunch of reality coming to bite them in the ass. Doctor/patient confidentiality died the same day our constitution did.

I can't wait to see the look on the face of the first RINO who thinks he's got his election in the bag, when OOPS!!! Somebody just happened to leak his medical records that were on file with the local death panel.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :steamed:

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 15:31
.....wrong!

I will do something, as many others will do......pressure those who represent us to act on our behalf, as well as vote for those who will.

......An equally ignorant comment! :wavey:

ooc

Do you not understand the ramifications of the SCROTUS ruling? The new powers that Roberts gave the government allows them to control every aspect of your life including your right to own guns. Go ahead, vote people in, vote people out, yell, scream, stomp your feet, petition the government and none of it will matter. When they decide it is time to disarm the populace they will do so and it will be Constitutional as long as they do it on the basis of taxes.

hogship
07-01-2012, 16:29
Do you not understand the ramifications of the SCROTUS ruling? The new powers that Roberts gave the government allows them to control every aspect of your life including your right to own guns. Go ahead, vote people in, vote people out, yell, scream, stomp your feet, petition the government and none of it will matter. When they decide it is time to disarm the populace they will do so and it will be Constitutional as long as they do it on the basis of taxes.

I think there is some measure of truth to what you are saying here, Ruble.......if things remain as they are.

Do you not understand that a lot of people are waking up to this reality? If Obamacare were repealed, there would no longer be a vehicle to which the taxes can be imposed without introducing, and passing new law.

Your vote DOES count, and if we had the right people representing us, a repeal CAN happen.......so, it IS something we, the people" can do about it. Whether you believe that, or not......stranger things can, and do happen!:shocked:

The only thing that makes me wonder about the possibilities, is the very real notion that, at some point, the takers who vote may very well surpass the producers who vote..........that does worry me quite a bit. :(

ooc

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 17:03
I think there is some measure of truth to what you are saying here, Ruble.......if things remain as they are.

Do you not understand that a lot of people are waking up to this reality? If Obamacare were repealed, there would no longer be a vehicle to which the taxes can be imposed without introducing, and passing new law.

Your vote DOES count, and if we had the right people representing us, a repeal CAN happen.......so, it IS something we, the people" can do about it. Whether you believe that, or not......stranger things can, and do happen!:shocked:

The only thing that makes me wonder about the possibilities, is the very real notion that, at some point, the takers who vote may very well surpass the producers who vote..........that does worry me quite a bit. :(

ooc

I'm afraid we've already passed that tipping point.

turretg
07-01-2012, 17:11
All in the name of taxes.

hogship
07-01-2012, 18:55
I'm afraid we've already passed that tipping point.

Howdy Doc.......

Just wondering how you can say that with the conviction your words indicate......?

I have no way of knowing this is true, or not......but, is there any way of knowing for sure?

ooc

hogship
07-01-2012, 19:02
I'm listening to some talk radio this afternoon, and it's been alleged the Constitution states that all taxation must originate in the House of Representatives. If this is true, then this is a point where Obamacare can be repealed without much opposition. As I understand it, Obamacare originated in the Senate, and the House vote was taken with the understanding that it was NOT a tax. If Robert's decision is binding that it is a tax, then it appears as though there may be a conflict with Constitutional edict.........

ooc

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 19:07
Howdy Doc.......

Just wondering how you can say that with the conviction your words indicate......?

I have no way of knowing this is true, or not......but, is there any way of knowing for sure?

ooc

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html


Guess which are more likely to vote for progressives. Guess which group goes to the polls more often than not.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 19:08
I'm listening to some talk radio this afternoon, and it's been alleged the Constitution states that all taxation must originate in the House of Representatives. If this is true, then this is a point where Obamacare can be repealed without much opposition. As I understand it, Obamacare originated in the Senate, and the House vote was taken with the understanding that it was NOT a tax. If Robert's decision is binding that it is a tax, then it appears as though there may be a conflict with Constitutional edict.........

ooc

I'd love that to be true, but I think we are grasping at straws with this, and the other "Roberts is playing chess" arguments.

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 19:09
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html


Guess which are more likely to vote for progressives. Guess which group goes to the polls more often than not.

The article is from 2010. I would guess that percentage has risen.

hogship
07-01-2012, 19:17
I'd love that to be true, but I think we are grasping at straws with this, and the other "Roberts is playing chess" arguments.

I don't buy into the "Roberts is playing chess" argument, either........but, it would seem that the direct conflict with the Constitution would be a point that could be proven easily.

I don't claim to know.......just relaying what I heard, and it does sound like a viable and interesting point.

ooc

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 19:36
The article is from 2010. I would guess that percentage has risen.





According to new data from the Tax Policy Center, this year 46.4 percent of tax filers will have no federal income tax liability. The following table presents the data. (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/28/who-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes-legally/)

Another interesting take......

Eligible Voters to Outnumber Taxpayers 3 to 1 (http://voices.yahoo.com/eligible-voters-outnumber-taxpayers-3-1-11046708.html?cat=9)

Gundude
07-01-2012, 21:11
dude, your map is not correct. Alabama and Connecticut are both may issue states.I'll take your word for it. That'd bring the number to 39 good states vs 11 bad states. Compared to 7 good states vs 43 bad states in 1986 (since the two states you mention were incorrectly labeled as shall-issue in 1986 as well), I'm still happy about it.

cowboy1964
07-01-2012, 22:46
They don't need to grab guns. Just outlaw ammo and components or make them too expensive. Ammo and it's components are hazardous materials, pollute, and cause death and destruction. Just slap a massive tax on them under the guise of "health care". Much easier.