Invasion! Could be funny if one wasn't that 18y/o [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Skyhook
07-01-2012, 07:30
Imagine; you are on the couch watching the Food Channel, minding your business and enjoying the relative peace and quiet...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48018051/ns/technology_and_science-security/#.T_BO5ZG8GSq

amorican88
07-01-2012, 07:53
I don't see the humor.

Skyhook
07-01-2012, 07:58
I don't see the humor.


Nor do I, actually. :eyebrow:

JBnTX
07-01-2012, 08:37
Maybe you had to be there?

svtpwnz
07-01-2012, 08:47
Thats one hell of a prank to do to somebody.

jakebrake
07-01-2012, 08:58
I don't see the humor.

yeah....i'm scratching my head trying to find the funny here as well.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 09:04
Good idea to lock down all your routers. I use the MAC address filter and full encryption. Yes that stops friends from hopping on my network when they come by, but oh well.

That doesn't stop someone calling with a spoofed caller ID to get the cops to show up at your place.

Since this is becoming more prevalent, It may be time to end no knock entry into a home without a higher level of probable cause.

What would happen in my home? Depends on if I saw them show up on the video surveillance. I'd at least not be caught off guard, which would probably have me or a family member meeting them armed, and getting shot. I'm playing the odds. It's a lot more likely that bad guys will try to kick in my door than the cops.

DOC44
07-01-2012, 09:13
What if you are in your recliner 9:30 pm watching tv and you see three people approaching your front pourch on your security camera monitor. You pickup you home defence weapon and move to cover. The door is knocked down ....guys enter.... what do you do????? what do you do????

Could these SWAT hacks be considered attempted murder by cop?

Doc44

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 09:41
What if you are in your recliner 9:30 pm watching tv and you see three people approaching your front pourch on your security camera monitor. You pickup you home defence weapon and move to cover. The door is knocked down ....guys enter.... what do you do????? what do you do????

Could these SWAT hacks be considered attempted murder by cop?

Doc44

I'd be fine with a 50 year sentence for each count if a person placed all those people's lives in danger like that. I have four views. I'd probably see the cars. If they are marked, and the uniforms are clearly marked, I would probably have to take the chance of not fighting back.

Tough call. First instinct if they are in plain clothes is to wait until they line up at the door, and put about 6 x 12 ga centurion rounds through the door before they even got a chance to knock.

Someone could obviously get hurt. I'm not a fan of swat entries unless there is an obvious need. If they want me to come in, all they would have to do is call, and I'd drive myself down to the court house. If the guy is dangerous, he can't stay in there forever. Catch him in his car when he leaves about a mile from the house.

There are too many ways to avoid this to not try.

DonGlock26
07-01-2012, 09:51
I was working during one of these swatting calls. It could have ended very badly. If these people are caught, they need to do hard time. I don't care, if they are pimply 17 year olds.


_

svtpwnz
07-01-2012, 10:47
I was working during one of these swatting calls. It could have ended very badly. If these people are caught, they need to do hard time. I don't care, if they are pimply 17 year olds.


_

I agree, people who do this crap need hard punishment period. But this still leaves the question of what to do and what happens if you defend your self in a situation like this.

At 10pm if someone kicks in my door, nothing good is going to happen to those that enter. If I clearly know that the intruders are swat, I will not fire. However, If I can't clearly identify the intruders no matter who they are, they are getting 00 buck shot followed up by XM193's and alot of them.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 10:52
I agree, people who do this crap need hard punishment period. But this still leaves the question of what to do and what happens if you defend your self in a situation like this.

At 10pm if someone kicks in my door, nothing good is going to happen to those that enter. If I clearly know that the intruders are swat, I will not fire. However, If I can't clearly identify the intruders no matter who they are, they are getting 00 buck shot followed up by XM193's and alot of them.

If they make it into the house, you may get a few of them, but they will get you too. Nothing good would come of it, that is darn sure. What would happen would depend on what happened. Too many variables to guess.

CAcop
07-01-2012, 14:06
Interesting the second case they mentioned was a classic case of SWATing. Of course it resulted in the typical SWAT response: Sit Wait, and Talk.

The first one is more interesting. It sounds like they got a warrant, which means a judge signed off on it, no knock and all.

Also interesting is the use of a flashbang. Those of you that think you can just shrug one off and take on the team will be in for a learning experience.

wprebeck
07-01-2012, 23:05
I'd be fine with a 50 year sentence for each count if a person placed all those people's lives in danger like that. I have four views. I'd probably see the cars. If they are marked, and the uniforms are clearly marked, I would probably have to take the chance of not fighting back.

Tough call. First instinct if they are in plain clothes is to wait until they line up at the door, and put about 6 x 12 ga centurion rounds through the door before they even got a chance to knock.

Someone could obviously get hurt. I'm not a fan of swat entries unless there is an obvious need. If they want me to come in, all they would have to do is call, and I'd drive myself down to the court house. If the guy is dangerous, he can't stay in there forever. Catch him in his car when he leaves about a mile from the house.

There are too many ways to avoid this to not try.

You're a pretty reasonable guy, so I'll be nice - how's that vehicle stop gonna go, if big meanie decides NOT to stop? How many people are endangered if that method is used, versus setting up on his home? Again, you're a reasonable guy, think it through.

Gunnut 45/454
07-01-2012, 23:24
I guess cops don't do any servailence anymore? I could see the response for the faked murders. But this?:faint:

DonGlock26
07-02-2012, 14:31
I agree, people who do this crap need hard punishment period. But this still leaves the question of what to do and what happens if you defend your self in a situation like this.

At 10pm if someone kicks in my door, nothing good is going to happen to those that enter. If I clearly know that the intruders are swat, I will not fire. However, If I can't clearly identify the intruders no matter who they are, they are getting 00 buck shot followed up by XM193's and alot of them.

Makes sense, and some teen will have gotten you and maybe others killed.

_

snerd
07-02-2012, 14:54
You're a pretty reasonable guy, so I'll be nice - how's that vehicle stop gonna go, if big meanie decides NOT to stop? How many people are endangered if that method is used, versus setting up on his home? Again, you're a reasonable guy, think it through.
The 4th Amendment was never about making your job easier or guaranteeing the safety of someone down the road. It was about illegal search and seizure and illegal entry into a persons home and property. Pretty hard nowdays to even recall the original intent, what with so many new "decrees" to make things so much "easier" and "safer" for leo.

Cavalry Doc
07-02-2012, 16:47
You're a pretty reasonable guy, so I'll be nice - how's that vehicle stop gonna go, if big meanie decides NOT to stop? How many people are endangered if that method is used, versus setting up on his home? Again, you're a reasonable guy, think it through.

If you are waiting for him, I'd think you'd have thought far enough ahead to make sure that wasn't an option. I'm pretty good at setting up blockades and ambushes if you need some training.

ETA: on second reading, that sounds overly harsh. But it seems to me, that if planned properly it is reasonably easy and safe to accomplish. Pick your spot, even if it is the driveway. But busting into a house is a dangerous proposition for all involved. I've done that too. Favorite technique was the wall breach. It's also not that hard to surround the place, and make a call, come out with your hands up, we have the place surrounded.

If someone gets the wrong address, and my house is hit, it's going to be a dicey few moments for all involved. Guarantee it. I'd prefer to not get shot over another person's screw up. I'm one of the good guys, I have never done anything worth a no knock warrant.

Stuff happens, and I'd really prefer it didn't happen to me.
I should be able to expect that.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/30/AR2008073003299_2.html

Skyhook
07-02-2012, 17:21
Makes sense, and some teen will have gotten you and maybe others killed.

_

A question which has been nagging me for a while is, How much verification/vetting did those police officers do before crashing into the poor child's home?

One would hope they really, really checked that out before the violence.

Cavalry Doc
07-02-2012, 17:26
A question which has been nagging me for a while is, How much verification/vetting did those police officers do before crashing into the poor child's home?

One would hope they really, really checked that out before the violence.

Honestly, with only a 17 year old girl at home, just enough to be civilly liable now that they know what they were getting into.

Anyone able to come up with the warrant??

CAcop
07-02-2012, 22:03
The 4th Amendment was never about making your job easier or guaranteeing the safety of someone down the road. It was about illegal search and seizure and illegal entry into a persons home and property. Pretty hard nowdays to even recall the original intent, what with so many new "decrees" to make things so much "easier" and "safer" for leo.

In this case a warrant was signed. Unless you have read a different version of the 4th than anyone else it is good to go in any court in the land.

CAcop
07-02-2012, 22:08
If you are waiting for him, I'd think you'd have thought far enough ahead to make sure that wasn't an option. I'm pretty good at setting up blockades and ambushesAMBUSH! OMG! That is militarization of the police there mister. Report yourself to the GTPI re-education center. You are not allowed out until you have drank your share of the Ron Paul flavored kool-aid. if you need some training.

ETA: on second reading, that sounds overly harsh. But it seems to me, that if planned properly it is reasonably easy and safe to accomplish. Pick your spot, even if it is the driveway. Can't a car be turned into a 2 ton weapon on public roadways?But busting into a house is a dangerous proposition for all involved. I've done that too. Favorite technique was the wall breach. Wall breach. Exlposives? It's also not that hard to surround the place, and make a call, come out with your hands up, we have the place surrounded.What if they start shooting from the house? Should we evacuate all the people in the neighborhood first or should we wait until shots are fired?

If someone gets the wrong address, and my house is hit, it's going to be a dicey few moments for all involved. Guarantee it. I'd prefer to not get shot over another person's screw up. I'm one of the good guys, I have never done anything worth a no knock warrant.

Stuff happens, and I'd really prefer it didn't happen to me.
I should be able to expect that.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/30/AR2008073003299_2.html

Something tells me you've never sat through an 8 hour day on liability in policing.

Cavalry Doc
07-03-2012, 07:19
Something tells me you've never sat through an 8 hour day on liability in policing.

I'm all for militarization of police, when in a gunfight with bad guys, I want the good guys to have the tools to win.

Cars can be disabled.

If shot at, don't know about you, but I consider it rude to not shoot back.

The fact is, it's dangerous to apprehend bad guys, and as in all human endeavors, imperfect. As illustrated in the OP, target selection is sometimes flawed. No Knocks have their place, but there are times when they have been used improperly. When the only tool you have is a hammer....

As far as explosives go, they have their place too, but explosives were used in the OP story.

Consider other options, that's all I'm saying. It would be a bad day for me if my home was targeted mistakenly. I'm doubting that due diligence was used in the OP story and in the story I linked too. Law abiding Citizens should feel safe in their feeling that the only guys breaching their home, are bad guys. Don't be the bad guy.

Cavalry Doc
07-03-2012, 07:21
In this case a warrant was signed. Unless you have read a different version of the 4th than anyone else it is good to go in any court in the land.

So who screwed up? I'm thinking it wasn't the 17 year old girl. What are the repercussions for getting it wrong?