If you don't support Obamacare [Archive] - Glock Talk

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certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 09:27
I assume you want to end Medicare and Social Security too?

How are they any different?

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 09:28
I assume you want to end Medicare and Social Security too?



Yes I do.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 09:32
I'd curtail it quite a bit. There is no reason a working person should have less coverage than medicaid. Medical treatment is a commodity, not a right. Yes that means that if you don't plan ahead, you might die sooner than you will otherwise. No one lives forever.

JBnTX
07-01-2012, 09:56
In a perfect world Medicare and Social Security would not exist,
because government has no business in a person's healthcare or their retirement.

But we don't live in a perfect world and thanks to the US government we probably never will.

We are too deep into Medicare and Social Security to just end them cold turkey.

Millions of people would suffer and a lot would die without the support these two programs provide.

The solution is to start weaning the American people off the government teat gradually, by slowly over time getting rid of Medicare and Social Security.

It took us years to get into this mess and it may take that long to get us out, but it can be done.

Anyone who recommends the immediate elimination of these two programs is either just cruel and heartless or doesn't fully understand the magnitude of the problem.

Guss
07-01-2012, 10:04
...

The solution is to start weaning the American people off the government teat gradually, by slowly over time getting rid of Medicare and Social Security.
...
But the reason they existed to begin with is because your way didn't work.

JBnTX
07-01-2012, 10:10
But the reason they existed to begin with is because your way didn't work.

"my way"?

You have no idea what "my way" is.

What do you mean?

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 10:11
In a perfect world Medicare and Social Security would not exist,
because government has no business in a person's healthcare or their retirement.

But we don't live in a perfect world and thanks to the US government we probably never will.

We are too deep into Medicare and Social Security to just end them cold turkey.

Millions of people would suffer and a lot would die without the support these two programs provide.

The solution is to start weaning the American people off the government teat gradually, by slowly over time getting rid of Medicare and Social Security.

It took us years to get into this mess and it may take that long to get us out, but it can be done.

Anyone who recommends the immediate elimination of these two programs is either just cruel and heartless or doesn't fully understand the magnitude of the problem.

Wow! You agree with Ron Paul.

nursetim
07-01-2012, 11:00
These programs didn't always exist. What did we do before them? That is what we need to do again. If health care was a right then my medical provider collegues and I, would be compelled to provide medical care without compensation. No one in their right mind would think this is right. It kills any incentive to learn how to take care of people and then we would have a REAL shortage of medical providers.

janice6
07-01-2012, 11:04
I assume you want to end Medicare and Social Security too?

How are they any different?



OBAMA is the difference.

JBnTX
07-01-2012, 11:12
Wow! You agree with Ron Paul.

Yea, but I have a better chance of being elected president.

G29Reload
07-01-2012, 11:13
I assume you want to end Medicare and Social Security too?

How are they any different?

Philosophically, I'd tend to be against these.

That saidİ, old age presents some unique problems. When you're old, you're basically uninsurable because its almost guaranteed you're gonna get sick at some point.

As for SS, it wouldn't be nearly so vexing a problem if it was ordered correctly. A massive calculation error dating to the Johnson administration has payouts massively disproportional to contributions. Also dating to the Johnson administration, abuse that leaves it raped and pillaged in order to balance the budget makes it nothing more than a slush fund for govt spending. If this didnt' exist people would probably would have a much better view of it.


The difference between these two and o care is that attacks everyone BREATHING. No sector, no special problem to be solved, just everyone. Too blanket, too redistributive. MEdicare and SS in theory are deduted from you and have a specific payout to come back. Certainly for the first half of your life you may never get sick or have medical demands out side what insurance you might normally have. Its invasive, all intrusive, has the jackboots riding shotgun over it, and is total, complete socialized medicine who's ultimate goal is complete government healthcare. Its about control and nothing more.

Gunhaver
07-01-2012, 11:33
I used to listen to too much talk radio and I was against obabmcare, then I met someone who really needs it and doesn't have any other options. Preexisting conditions make her uninsurable and medication costs are insane.

She's been thrilled that it was upheld and I'm happy for her that she won't have to choose between feeding herself and paying for 6 different meds that make her perfectly fine and healthy as long as she has them. And I know there are a lot of people out there that are worse off than her.

That's more important to me than anyone having to pay a tax or whatever else the haters want to :crying: about. They can all go piss up a rope.

W420Hunter
07-01-2012, 11:38
Yes I do. I think I can do a much better job with the money I put into it then the fed can.

greyhoundafw
07-01-2012, 11:51
Problem is medicare/medicaid are pretty messed up before this. Medicaid will pay for umlimited 911 trips to ED, but only a very limited number to primary care provider. At least 1/2 the calls I run are as a medicaid taxi to the ED for a cold or other minor problem. I believe it pitiful that people in our country have to choose between food and medications. But until the existing problems are fixed, no system will work, because the same people who administer what we have now will be in charge of what we are gonna get

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SPIN2010
07-01-2012, 12:15
Ending these programs is great ... if you pay back the money we all put in. I am all for it! When do I get my check? :upeyes:

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 12:27
Ending these programs is great ... if you pay back the money we all put in. I am all for it! When do I get my check? :upeyes:

You didn't "put in". You were taxed. Same as obamacare.

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 12:30
Philosophically, I'd tend to be against these.

That saidİ, old age presents some unique problems. When you're old, you're basically uninsurable because its almost guaranteed you're gonna get sick at some point.

As for SS, it wouldn't be nearly so vexing a problem if it was ordered correctly. A massive calculation error dating to the Johnson administration has payouts massively disproportional to contributions. Also dating to the Johnson administration, abuse that leaves it raped and pillaged in order to balance the budget makes it nothing more than a slush fund for govt spending. If this didnt' exist people would probably would have a much better view of it.


The difference between these two and o care is that attacks everyone BREATHING. No sector, no special problem to be solved, just everyone. Too blanket, too redistributive. MEdicare and SS in theory are deduted from you and have a specific payout to come back. Certainly for the first half of your life you may never get sick or have medical demands out side what insurance you might normally have. Its invasive, all intrusive, has the jackboots riding shotgun over it, and is total, complete socialized medicine who's ultimate goal is complete government healthcare. Its about control and nothing more.

Term health indemnity policies solve the age issue and allows insurers to price in the risk.

Otherwise someone else must subsidize care. You either pay for it or someone else does.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 13:04
I used to listen to too much talk radio and I was against obabmcare, then I met someone who really needs it and doesn't have any other options. Preexisting conditions make her uninsurable and medication costs are insane.

She's been thrilled that it was upheld and I'm happy for her that she won't have to choose between feeding herself and paying for 6 different meds that make her perfectly fine and healthy as long as she has them. And I know there are a lot of people out there that are worse off than her.

That's more important to me than anyone having to pay a tax or whatever else the haters want to :crying: about. They can all go piss up a rope.


That's very generous of you.... :upeyes:



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9VGZjBQHr0s/SRLeR1qOBVI/AAAAAAAACUI/BQCnvh2fuso/s1600/socialism_explained.jpg

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 13:53
I used to listen to too much talk radio and I was against obabmcare, then I met someone who really needs it and doesn't have any other options. Preexisting conditions make her uninsurable and medication costs are insane.

She's been thrilled that it was upheld and I'm happy for her that she won't have to choose between feeding herself and paying for 6 different meds that make her perfectly fine and healthy as long as she has them. And I know there are a lot of people out there that are worse off than her.

That's more important to me than anyone having to pay a tax or whatever else the haters want to :crying: about. They can all go piss up a rope.

So how much have you given her?

CAcop
07-01-2012, 13:57
These programs didn't always exist. What did we do before them? That is what we need to do again. If health care was a right then my medical provider collegues and I, would be compelled to provide medical care without compensation. No one in their right mind would think this is right. It kills any incentive to learn how to take care of people and then we would have a REAL shortage of medical providers.

To be honest people died long before they were too sick to work. A century ago life expectancy was 45, now add 30 years.

CavDoc has gone over how he can save people if he finds out they have cancer early enough. How many more years is he adding to their lives? What about people such a Dick Cheney? How much longer has he gotten due to medical advances?

Quite frankly to eliminate SS and MC immediately we have to accept people will die who otherwise wouldnt . Now this would probably have consequences beyond health. What happens to the economy when people start dying at 45 vs. 75?

First on the list of things to do is kill Obamacare, then move on the others. Unwind them in a sensible way. Throwing a temper tantrum is not going to make things better, in fact it lessens the odds of the people going for it.

Remember everybody wants their slice of the government cheese. You will have to show them a different way in order for them to stop lining up for it.

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 13:59
Quite frankly to eliminate SS and MC immediately we have to accept people will die who otherwise wouldnt . Now this would probably have consequences beyond health. What happens to the economy when people start dying at 45 vs. 75?



The pain will come at some point. It cannot continue like it is.

Even people dying does not justify generational theft.

Gunhaver
07-01-2012, 15:54
That's very generous of you.... :upeyes:



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9VGZjBQHr0s/SRLeR1qOBVI/AAAAAAAACUI/BQCnvh2fuso/s1600/socialism_explained.jpg

If her staying alive and being healthy enough to be a productive member of society pisses off guys like you then I'm all for it with a smile on my face. :supergrin:

Gunhaver
07-01-2012, 15:56
So how much have you given her?

You think that's the problem? I'm just sitting on a pile of cash and don't want her to have any of it?

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 16:09
If her staying alive and being healthy enough to be a productive member of society pisses off guys like you then I'm all for it with a smile on my face. :supergrin:

Oh, I'm not saying I want her to die. I'm saying if she cannot pay for it herself, you and some other friends should voluntarily kick in to help out. I'm sure you are happy that others get to pay for it and you get to pat yourself on the back and feel good about yourself.

Good for you. Enjoy it while it lasts.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 16:11
You think that's the problem? I'm just sitting on a pile of cash and don't want her to have any of it?

So you didn't personally give her anything? Not even a pie, or a casserole?

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 16:19
You think that's the problem? I'm just sitting on a pile of cash and don't want her to have any of it?

So, you aren't paying her bills but you think it's ok to force others to do it?


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certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 16:21
If her staying alive and being healthy enough to be a productive member of society pisses off guys like you then I'm all for it with a smile on my face. :supergrin:

Then you should pay for it. At the very least you should help her write 150 million thank you notes.


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Gunnut 45/454
07-01-2012, 16:27
Sure do a socialist program is a socialist program! Can't find them anywhere in the COTUS maybe you could point them out ? And oh it's not General welfare clause either! That just like the Comerce clause have been preverted by the Socialists. Cause the Founding fathers never wrote anything to say this is what they wanted. In fact the exact opposite!:supergrin:

Gunhaver
07-01-2012, 16:42
So, you aren't paying her bills but you think it's ok to force others to do it?


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Bills? This isn't cable TV or a iPhone plan we're talking about here. This is $400 a month just in meds to keep someone alive. It's real easy to whine about people buying beer and smokes with EBT cards and stuff like that but this is a different matter. If you're asking me if I'd condone the government coming to your house and confiscating your BMW and leaving you with a Kia to keep her alive then yes. I'd have no problem with that.

Call me a socialist if that's the only way to wrap your head around the concept.

turretg
07-01-2012, 16:49
It was not the will of the people.

Lethaltxn
07-01-2012, 16:52
Bills? This isn't cable TV or a iPhone plan we're talking about here. This is $400 a month just in meds to keep someone alive. It's real easy to whine about people buying beer and smokes with EBT cards and stuff like that but this is a different matter. If you're asking me if I'd condone the government coming to your house and confiscating your BMW and leaving you with a Kia to keep her alive then yes. I'd have no problem with that.

Call me a socialist if that's the only way to wrap your head around the concept.

So that would be a no then?

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 17:06
Bills? This isn't cable TV or a iPhone plan we're talking about here. This is $400 a month just in meds to keep someone alive. It's real easy to whine about people buying beer and smokes with EBT cards and stuff like that but this is a different matter. If you're asking me if I'd condone the government coming to your house and confiscating your BMW and leaving you with a Kia to keep her alive then yes. I'd have no problem with that.

Call me a socialist if that's the only way to wrap your head around the concept.

I think calling you one has now been rendered a moot point.

engineer151515
07-01-2012, 17:23
Bills? This isn't cable TV or a iPhone plan we're talking about here. This is $400 a month just in meds to keep someone alive. It's real easy to whine about people buying beer and smokes with EBT cards and stuff like that but this is a different matter. If you're asking me if I'd condone the government coming to your house and confiscating your BMW and leaving you with a Kia to keep her alive then yes. I'd have no problem with that.

Call me a socialist if that's the only way to wrap your head around the concept.

If it cost everybody everything for your friend, what would you do for the next person?

Revvv
07-01-2012, 17:24
I am going to answer the question simply without getting into politics. Obamacare is forced while Medicare and SS are optional. We pay taxes that support SS and Medicare, but you are not required to have them. There is no fine in place if you opt out of SS and never need Medicare.

With Obama's BS in place you are required to purchase insurance (not against insurance. I am against being forced by the hand of the Government to own something I may not want or be able to afford). That is is a major difference.

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 17:25
I think calling you one has now been rendered a moot point.

I agree.

Kevin108
07-01-2012, 17:25
But the reason they existed to begin with is because your way didn't work.

Meaning his way didn't buy Democrats enough votes?

Gunhaver
07-01-2012, 17:41
If it cost everybody everything for your friend, what would you do for the next person?

I doesn't cost everybody everything. It actually costs what some would consider very little. $400 (sometimes up to $600 if she's not gone to the doctor for a while because she's afraid of the med bills piling up) a month is parking spot rent for some people. It's a glass of some ridiculously expensive whiskey or a new pair of shoes to toss into the pile of other $400 shoes. I'd say it should stop at the point that nobody has the money to blow on crap like that but a whole lot more people aren't dead or dying.

I've lost count of the number of times I've taken her to the ER and we all pay for that with increased healthcare costs so why don't you just go ahead and tell me I should let her die the next time and I can tell you to **** off and we'll be done with this? Or maybe you can come up with that brilliant viable alternative we've all been waiting for and start lobbying for that as hard as you ***** about Romney care.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 17:47
I doesn't cost everybody everything. It actually costs what some would consider very little. $400 (sometimes up to $600 if she's not gone to the doctor for a while because she's afraid of the med bills piling up) a month is parking spot rent for some people. It's a glass of some ridiculously expensive whiskey or a new pair of shoes to toss into the pile of other $400 shoes. I'd say it should stop at the point that nobody has the money to blow on crap like that but a whole lot more people aren't dead or dying.

I've lost count of the number of times I've taken her to the ER and we all pay for that with increased healthcare costs so why don't you just go ahead and tell me I should let her die the next time and I can tell you to **** off and we'll be done with this? Or maybe you can come up with that brilliant viable alternative we've all been waiting for and start lobbying for that as hard as you ***** about Romney care.

So you have been trolling for a specific response?

You must have one heck of a response to that on deck.

We are saying you should give till it hurts too. No smartphone, no flat screen TV, no cable, no Internet.

To many in the world, those are seen as obscene luxuries.

Things are relative.

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 17:53
I doesn't cost everybody everything. It actually costs what some would consider very little. $400 (sometimes up to $600 if she's not gone to the doctor for a while because she's afraid of the med bills piling up) a month is parking spot rent for some people. It's a glass of some ridiculously expensive whiskey or a new pair of shoes to toss into the pile of other $400 shoes. I'd say it should stop at the point that nobody has the money to blow on crap like that but a whole lot more people aren't dead or dying.

I've lost count of the number of times I've taken her to the ER and we all pay for that with increased healthcare costs so why don't you just go ahead and tell me I should let her die the next time and I can tell you to **** off and we'll be done with this? Or maybe you can come up with that brilliant viable alternative we've all been waiting for and start lobbying for that as hard as you ***** about Romney care.

You know that there are charities that help with this sort of thing?

engineer151515
07-01-2012, 18:00
I am sorry for your friend's circumstances. I would feel the same for a cherished love one. But we both know the world doesn't work the way you wish it. In fact, under Obamacare, your friend may find it even more difficult to get her medications in the future. There are already shortages of some basic heart medicines that drug makers feel are unprofitable to produce. The FDA is looking overseas for producers but is having trouble funding faculities that meet FDA standards.

Under Obamacare, sick people will be forced to pass approval panels for access and then wait for the next shipment to come in.

In truth, your friend's medicine may shortly become even less available because of gov't interference.

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 18:08
I am sorry for your friend's circumstances. I would feel the same for a cherished love one. But we both know the world doesn't work the way you wish it. In fact, under Obamacare, your friend may find it even more difficult to get her medications in the future. There are already shortages of some basic heart medicines that drug makers feel are unprofitable to produce. The FDA is looking overseas for producers but is having trouble funding faculities that meet FDA standards.

Under Obamacare, sick people will be forced to pass approval panels for access and then wait for the next shipment to come in.

In truth, your friend's medicine may shortly become even less available because of gov't interference.

True. Medicine, doctors could all be in short supply and depending upon age people might or might not get life saving treatment under obamacare.
What I find amusing about this is that I know several people that were staunchly against HMO's because bureaucrats were in charge of deciding if they needed treatment yet these same people are for obamacare, the HMO from hell.

Gunhaver
07-01-2012, 18:14
So you have been trolling for a specific response?

You must have one heck of a response to that on deck.

We are saying you should give till it hurts too. No smartphone, no flat screen TV, no cable, no Internet.

To many in the world, those are seen as obscene luxuries.

Things are relative.


And what makes you think you know anything about my situation? I make my living with internet and I don't have any of those other "luxuries" because I don't have any interest in them. I spend a good deal of my time helping her out any way I can. Sure, I'll give til it hurts. What about people that don't have anyone willing to do that for them? Under ACA others will be required to give until it's mildly inconvenient.

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 18:19
True. Medicine, doctors could all be in short supply and depending upon age people might or might not get life saving treatment under obamacare.
What I find amusing about this is that I know several people that were staunchly against HMO's because bureaucrats were in charge of deciding if they needed treatment yet these same people are for obamacare, the HMO from hell.

If you can treat three Patients with hepatitis C for the cost of a transplant..... Some bean counter may decide to focus the money elsewhere.


Doctors back denial of treatment for smokers and the obese
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/apr/28/doctors-treatment-denial-smokers-obese)
Survey finds 54% of doctors think the NHS should have the right to withhold non-emergency treatment

Sentenced to death for being old: The NHS denies life-saving treatment to the elderly, as one man's chilling story reveals

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2126379/Sentenced-death-old-The-NHS-denies-life-saving-treatment-elderly-mans-chilling-story-reveals.html#ixzz1zQ6OWML6

Patients denied key treatments due to NHS cost-cutting, surgeons warn (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/apr/18/nhs-cost-cutting-surgeon-warning)



Welcome to paradise.

Open letter accuses health trusts of letting public down by branding some elective surgery 'lower value'

Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 18:22
And what makes you think you know anything about my situation? I make my living with internet and I don't have any of those other "luxuries" because I don't have any interest in them. I spend a good deal of my time helping her out any way I can. Sure, I'll give til it hurts. What about people that don't have anyone willing to do that for them? Under ACA others will be required to give until it's mildly inconvenient.

I guess you are right. I don't know much about your situation. What was your end of year federal tax liability last year?

As far as the rest of it goes, it does pay to have friends. A friend in need, is a friend indeed.

If your friend's treatments are expensive, they may be stopped in the future. Performance Measure Based medicine can be scary. It's an open invitation for fraud.

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 18:24
And what makes you think you know anything about my situation? I make my living with internet and I don't have any of those other "luxuries" because I don't have any interest in them. I spend a good deal of my time helping her out any way I can. Sure, I'll give til it hurts. What about people that don't have anyone willing to do that for them? Under ACA others will be required to give until it's mildly inconvenient.

Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill - YouTube


LiveLeak.com - Beck on Dr. Ezekiel Emanual on "The Complete Lives System"

ken grant
07-01-2012, 18:30
I am going to answer the question simply without getting into politics. Obamacare is forced while Medicare and SS are optional. We pay taxes that support SS and Medicare, but you are not required to have them. There is no fine in place if you opt out of SS and never need Medicare.




Wish I had known this 57 years ago. I never had a choice if I wanted to work.
Not only did I pay the max SS for most of these years, my employer paid an equal amount.

As for Medicare, I don't have a choice there as well. The Government forces me to have Medicare for both my wife and I.
Medicare is deducted from my SS check for both of us.

If you know a way to get out of being forced to pay SS and Medicare, please tell me so I can pass the info to my Kids,Grandkids and Great Grantkids and let them decide how to spend their wages and maybe get a little extra from their employer instead of employer paying into SS as well.

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 18:36
Wish I had known this 57 years ago. I never had a choice if I wanted to work.
Not only did I pay the max SS for most of these years, my employer paid an equal amount.

As for Medicare, I don't have a choice there as well. The Government forces me to have Medicare for both my wife and I.
Medicare is deducted from my SS check for both of us.

If you know a way to get out of being forced to pay SS and Medicare, please tell me so I can pass the info to my Kids,Grandkids and Great Grantkids and let them decide how to spend their wages and maybe get a little extra from their employer instead of employer paying into SS as well.

My mother found this out about a year ago. She has the means to buy her own insurance and do without medicare but the government insisted that she enroll in it.

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 18:38
Bills? This isn't cable TV or a iPhone plan we're talking about here. This is $400 a month just in meds to keep someone alive. It's real easy to whine about people buying beer and smokes with EBT cards and stuff like that but this is a different matter. If you're asking me if I'd condone the government coming to your house and confiscating your BMW and leaving you with a Kia to keep her alive then yes. I'd have no problem with that.

Call me a socialist if that's the only way to wrap your head around the concept.

Yup! That's socialist and it's evil.

You have no moral authority to steal from me to fund your own charity.

You pay it. I don't wanna





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certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 18:43
And what makes you think you know anything about my situation? I make my living with internet and I don't have any of those other "luxuries" because I don't have any interest in them. I spend a good deal of my time helping her out any way I can. Sure, I'll give til it hurts. What about people that don't have anyone willing to do that for them? Under ACA others will be required to give until it's mildly inconvenient.

That's very arrogant of you. What gives you the moral authority to put a gun to someone's head and steal from them until "it's mildly inconvenient"

How bout you just leave me alone and I'll do the same.




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CAcop
07-01-2012, 18:51
The pain will come at some point. It cannot continue like it is.

Even people dying does not justify generational theft.

You know your wayh will never make it through Congress. "We the people" will not cut their own throats.

Look what happened at the town halls. It was older folks thinking they were going to lose Medicare or soccer moms afraid of their kids dying of curable dieseases.

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 18:55
You know your wayh will never make it through Congress. "We the people" will not cut their own throats.

Look what happened at the town halls. It was older folks thinking they were going to lose Medicare or soccer moms afraid of their kids dying of curable dieseases.

Precisely why I have no sympathy when the inevitable happens


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427
07-01-2012, 18:57
Precisely why I have no sympathy when the inevitable happens


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certifiedfunds, you've stated many times you think tax evaders are "patriotic". If you don't want to play the game, be a "patriot." Instead of complaining about it, do something besides beating your little drum.

CAcop
07-01-2012, 18:58
Oh, and to be honest if the Republicans fail to take the house, senate, and presidency and repeal Obamacare we will have single payer. That was the plan all along. Obamacare will fail and the choice will be to scrap it or single payer.

Start asking your friends, family and aqcuaintances what they would want under those cricumstances. I bet you will be surprised at the answer.

My bet is within 20 years, probably 10, that we will have single payer.

CAcop
07-01-2012, 19:01
certifiedfunds, you've stated many times you think tax evaders are "patriotic". If you don't want to play the game, be a "patriot." Instead of complaining about it, do something besides beating your little drum.

We had alefty mayor who failed to pay taxes for over a decade.

He still isn't paying taxes but he ignored his doctor's advice about weight loss, diabetes, and high blood pressure.

Ruble Noon
07-01-2012, 19:06
Oh, and to be honest if the Republicans fail to take the house, senate, and presidency and repeal Obamacare we will have single payer. That was the plan all along. Obamacare will fail and the choice will be to scrap it or single payer.

Start asking your friends, family and aqcuaintances what they would want under those cricumstances. I bet you will be surprised at the answer.

My bet is within 20 years, probably 10, that we will have single payer.

Single payer is a given if obamacare is not repealed, which I seriously doubt. However, we might reach the point of collapse first.

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 19:11
certifiedfunds, you've stated many times you think tax evaders are "patriotic". If you don't want to play the game, be a "patriot." Instead of complaining about it, do something besides beating your little drum.

I'm too much of a coward. The thugs would kick down my door, shoot my dog, put me in prison and make my family homeless.

That's why those who risk all of that and deprive fedzilla of money should be heralded and admired. True patriots indeed. They are willing to risk their lives, fortunes and sacred honor to do the right thing.




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certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 19:12
Oh, and to be honest if the Republicans fail to take the house, senate, and presidency and repeal Obamacare we will have single payer. That was the plan all along. Obamacare will fail and the choice will be to scrap it or single payer.

Start asking your friends, family and aqcuaintances what they would want under those cricumstances. I bet you will be surprised at the answer.

My bet is within 20 years, probably 10, that we will have single payer.

It will never be repealed. Even the republicans don't want it repealed. They just like campaigning against it.




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Cavalry Doc
07-01-2012, 19:29
Single payer is a given if obamacare is not repealed, which I seriously doubt. However, we might reach the point of collapse first.

I think we have a loooooonnnnnnggggg way to go down the rabbit hole before there is a reset. Britain, Canada and Greece are good examples. Kosovo, Somalia, and Lebanon are better examples.


Obama on single payer health insurance - YouTube

427
07-01-2012, 19:35
I'm too much of a coward. The thugs would kick down my door, shoot my dog, put me in prison and make my family homeless.

That's why those who risk all of that and deprive fedzilla of money should be heralded and admired. True patriots indeed. They are willing to risk their lives, fortunes and sacred honor to do the right thing.




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Thanks for your honesty.

I look at it like this, I have three choices;

-Play the game and continue to have money extorted from me

-Fly under the radar, be a fish in a growing school of fish

-Take everything I can, while I can

-Or a combination

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 19:39
Thanks for your honesty.

I look at it like this, I have three choices;

-Play the game and continue to have money extorted from me

-Fly under the radar, be a fish in a growing school of fish

-Take everything I can, while I can

-Or a combination

Zebras have stripes for a reason



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Gunhaver
07-01-2012, 20:32
I'm too much of a coward. The thugs would kick down my door, shoot my dog, put me in prison and make my family homeless.



So put the lives and well being of those you care about before your principals? Welcome to the club. In a perfect world we wouldn't have to choose but it'll never be a perfect world.

In a situation where a spouse or child or very good friend's life was at stake every last one of you and every last one of the rest of the conservative chatterboxes out there would jump at the chance for some "socialist" health care for them if there wasn't another option. Seems to me that the best course of action for those that don't like it is to start advocating for another option because America is finding it real easy to laugh at and ignore anybody who's only reaction to the situation is to scream, "Socialist!".

Gunhaver
07-01-2012, 20:42
You know that there are charities that help with this sort of thing?

You don't say? Then why all the fuss? The charities can just pick up all the slack right? Please enlighten me on which charity I can have her send her $40,000 in medical bills to. Would it be the same one that'll send her a monthly check to cover the medication costs?

I know you've all been conditioned to think that anyone who would dare not vehemently oppose ACA must be a butt reaming retard but I assure you that's not the case. In fact the reaction to the recent SCOTUS decision has me thinking the opposite is true. We've explored every option.

Who do you think would know better what possible options a person has in any given situation, the person in that situation or some internet pundit throwing out the first thing that pops into his head?

lancesorbenson
07-01-2012, 21:09
You don't say? Then why all the fuss? The charities can just pick up all the slack right? Please enlighten me on which charity I can have her send her $40,000 in medical bills to. Would it be the same one that'll send her a monthly check to cover the medication costs?

I know you've all been conditioned to think that anyone who would dare not vehemently oppose ACA must be a butt reaming retard but I assure you that's not the case. In fact the reaction to the recent SCOTUS decision has me thinking the opposite is true. We've explored every option.

Who do you think would know better what possible options a person has in any given situation, the person in that situation or some internet pundit throwing out the first thing that pops into his head?

You could tend bar three nights a month and pay for this dear friend's life-saving meds. Get to it!

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 21:22
So put the lives and well being of those you care about before your principals? Welcome to the club.

With my own money and my own principles. I wouldn't dare impose that on you.

In a perfect world we wouldn't have to choose but it'll never be a perfect world.

That's cute.

In a situation where a spouse or child or very good friend's life was at stake every last one of you and every last one of the rest of the conservative chatterboxes out there would jump at the chance for some "socialist" health care for them if there wasn't another option. Seems to me that the best course of action for those that don't like it is to start advocating for another option because America is finding it real easy to laugh at and ignore anybody who's only reaction to the situation is to scream, "Socialist!". This

. If you're asking me if I'd condone the government coming to your house and confiscating your BMW and leaving you with a Kia to keep her alive then yes. I'd have no problem with that.



Is socialist. Maybe you don't like the truth?

What you're advocating for is theft. Perhaps you don't have the courage to put a gun to the head of a liquor store owner to buy someone medicine but you'll gladly vote for a politician to do it in your stead. Evil, despicable stuff. Maybe you could just ask the liquor store owner for a job in the evenings?

You cannot use government to perform moral acts because it must, by definition, begin with an immoral act: Theft

I'm sorry that your friend is sick. The system is broken. Government broke it. You're looking in the wrong place for the solution.

Attitudes like the one you portray above make me sick to my stomach. I've lost all sympathy.

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 21:24
You could tend bar three nights a month and pay for this dear friend's life-saving meds. Get to it!

The truth hurts.

I suppose its easier to just let the government steal it from someone else.

Gundude
07-01-2012, 21:35
I would gladly forfeit everything I've put into Social Security and Medicare so far if they let me stop contributing going forward.

And I contributed over $20,000 to Medicare in a single year after Clinton removed the cap.

I have no expectation of seeing any of that money again.

Nor do I realistically expect SS, Medicare, or Obamacare will be repealed, ever.

lancesorbenson
07-01-2012, 21:49
If you're asking me if I'd condone the government coming to your house and confiscating your BMW and leaving you with a Kia to keep her alive then yes. I'd have no problem with that.

Call me a socialist if that's the only way to wrap your head around the concept.

What are you gonna say to Americans who build, sell, and service BMWs when they start losing their jobs?

Seriously, five good nights a month serving seafood platters at Joe's Crab Shack will keep your beloved friend in good health. If any of my loved ones--friends and family--only needed 400 bucks a month to stay healthy, I'd pay for it myself. But that's just me. I can tell you're made of slightly different stuff.

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 21:54
I would gladly forfeit everything I've put into Social Security and Medicare so far if they let me stop contributing going forward.

And I contributed over $20,000 to Medicare in a single year after Clinton removed the cap.

I have no expectation of seeing any of that money again.

Nor do I realistically expect SS, Medicare, or Obamacare will be repealed, ever.

Kudos sir. I'll do you one better. I'll pay till the day I die if they would just end it and let my children live in a prosperous nation.

Your comment though reminds me of the debt bit. $50,000 or whatever for every household. Sure. Can I settle up the tab now and be left out of the rest? :supergrin:

certifiedfunds
07-01-2012, 21:56
Gunhaver - report back which 2nd job you get to take care of your friend.

I'd suggest something that pays cash daily like lanceorbenson suggested. Easier to avoid taxes. Less work, more medicine.

Gunhaver
07-01-2012, 22:46
With my own money and my own principles. I wouldn't dare impose that on you.

Funny, maybe not you personally but most that subscribe to the same "principals" that you do have no problem running down to the polls and imposing their principals on the rights of others when the issue at hand is the freedom of others regarding marriage, abortion, drug laws and any other topic they feel like having an opinion on. If they get to have a say in so personal a matter as if somebody can get married, have a baby or put certain substances in their own body then those people can determine what to do with a little bit of their tax money. I have no problem using the government to bleed stupid hypocrites like that completely dry to be honest. No problem whatsoever.

That's cute.

This



Is socialist. Maybe you don't like the truth?

I don't care what you want to call it. Doesn't hurt me one bit.

What you're advocating for is theft. Perhaps you don't have the courage to put a gun to the head of a liquor store owner to buy someone medicine but you'll gladly vote for a politician to do it in your stead. Evil, despicable stuff. Maybe you could just ask the liquor store owner for a job in the evenings?

Perhaps you don't have the guts to put a gun to the head of a woman and tell her she has to have that baby, to a gay couple and tell them they will not get married or some perfectly functional member of society and tell him he will not smoke that joint on a Sunday night while he watched The Simpsons but you'll gladly vote for some politician to do so for you.

BTW I didn't vote for Obama and I don't plan to next time around (nor Romney). I'm pretty disgusted with the fast & furious BS, the ongoing wars and the patent reform that nobody even picked up on among other perfectly valid reasons to hate the guy. You may think you have me pegged as a commie socialist but that's because you only think in black and white and only have one word for people that disagree with you.

You cannot use government to perform moral acts because it must, by definition, begin with an immoral act: Theft

This wasn't my idea but I've done a lot of looking into it and everywhere I look besides Fox News and GT says it's mostly a good thing.

I'm sorry that your friend is sick. The system is broken. Government broke it. You're looking in the wrong place for the solution.

Attitudes like the one you portray above make me sick to my stomach. I've lost all sympathy.

I'm not looking for your sympathy but I do hope for your sake that you can afford some anti-nausea meds for that stomach. If not maybe one of your friends can go get a second job.

cowboy1964
07-01-2012, 22:59
I assume you want to end Medicare and Social Security too?

Yes. Hell, I will opt-put if they just let me keep HALF of what I'm currently paying in. They can keep the rest.

Pyramid schemes are pyramid schemes no matter what you call them or who runs them. They are just legal when the Government runs them.

If they want some reasonable percentage of my yearly income to take care of the truly poor, go ahead. Leave the rest for me to take care of myself. I don't need 20% of my income going into a "trust fund" that they raid anyway to pay the general budget. It's outright theft and it always has been.

Blast
07-02-2012, 02:30
Another whine-one-one thread:yawn:

http://image.bayimg.com/haaahaadk.jpg

certifiedfunds
07-02-2012, 05:54
I'm not looking for your sympathy but I do hope for your sake that you can afford some anti-nausea meds for that stomach. If not maybe one of your friends can go get a second job.

So are you going to man up and get the second job to help your friend? Maybe you're just not cut from that type of cloth, eh?

Its a better solution than having some Obamacare administrator decide your friend isn't worth the "investment".

Pathetic.

gwalchmai
07-02-2012, 06:25
I assume you want to end Medicare and Social Security too?

How are they any different?I've been in favor of opting out of SS & Med since I started paying them. If one accepts their original premise there should be no problem with anyone opting out of SS (as long as that person accepts his financial responsibility). OTOH, if it's a tax you can't let the base of the pyramid out...

gwalchmai
07-02-2012, 06:54
Bills? This isn't cable TV or a iPhone plan we're talking about here. This is $400 a month just in meds to keep someone alive. It's real easy to whine about people buying beer and smokes with EBT cards and stuff like that but this is a different matter. If you're asking me if I'd condone the government coming to your house and confiscating your BMW and leaving you with a Kia to keep her alive then yes. I'd have no problem with that.

Call me a socialist if that's the only way to wrap your head around the concept.You're a socialist. By definition.

Gunhaver
07-02-2012, 07:31
You're a socialist. By definition.

I'm starting to see how this conservatism thing works. A human life is worth more than a person's right to choose to have a medical procedure but not worth more than "Ma Money!".

M'kaaay....

whoflungdo
07-02-2012, 07:33
Yup! That's socialist and it's evil.

You have no moral authority to steal from me to fund your own charity.

You pay it. I don't wanna





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Bingo... another victim of the War on Class (WOC). He shouldn't have his luxuries taken away because he isn't as extravagant as the rich people..

gwalchmai
07-02-2012, 07:38
I'm starting to see how this conservatism thing works. A human life is worth more than a person's right to choose to have a medical procedure but not worth more than "Ma Money!".

M'kaaay....I don't know what all that means, but "conservatism" and "socialism" aren't really comparable terms, and they aren't mutually exclusive, although conservatives usually don't care for socialism.

Maybe you should look up definitions for socialism vs capitalism, and conservative vs liberal.

FuturePharmD
07-02-2012, 07:53
I used to listen to too much talk radio and I was against obabmcare, then I met someone who really needs it and doesn't have any other options. Preexisting conditions make her uninsurable and medication costs are insane.

She's been thrilled that it was upheld and I'm happy for her that she won't have to choose between feeding herself and paying for 6 different meds that make her perfectly fine and healthy as long as she has them. And I know there are a lot of people out there that are worse off than her.

That's more important to me than anyone having to pay a tax or whatever else the haters want to :crying: about. They can all go piss up a rope.

The problem with your friend is just like the people currently on Medicare/Medicaid this program is only going to pay for what it wants to and she will probably be denied her meds without still paying cash for them and after three or four months of fighting to get them approved the cost is going to push her into the doughnut hole where she will pay an absolute 100% of her cost. People who work in the healthcare field understand how this is a gimmick more then anything and the few people it helps it ends up hurting a lot more. I pay a premium for my health coverage due to my pre-existing conditions and according to this new affordable care act I am going to pay a "premium insurance" tax for having coverage beyond what Medicare covers. Now how is that helping?!?


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certifiedfunds
07-02-2012, 07:53
I'm starting to see how this conservatism thing works. A human life is worth more than a person's right to choose to have a medical procedure but not worth more than "Ma Money!".

M'kaaay....

So are you going to man up and get a second job to help out your friend or not?

JFrame
07-02-2012, 07:59
So are you going to man up and get a second job to help out your friend or not?


Marx's credo about "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his need" always seems to entail dipping a hand in the pocket of someone else.


.

whoflungdo
07-02-2012, 08:13
Marx's credo about "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his need" always seems to entail dipping a hand in the pocket of someone else.


.

Not just someone else... Someone who can afford it more easily... or it won't affect as much.. or that is spending their money unwisely on needless things.

Like I said... he's a victim of the War on Class...

FuturePharmD
07-02-2012, 08:27
I always found Marx interesting, but I find that his logic is based on people doing all they could to their ability. Now the problem with this is most don't do to their ability. Their are a lot of people who's actions are walking to the mailbox and *****ing to me they have a dollar copay on their COPD meds that they purchased with a carton of cigarettes.
I came from a background that the government considered me disabled. I got into the vocational rehabilitation program and they assisted with paying for me to get my PharmD. Note they assisted not paid for all or gave me a hand out. I worked and went to school and am still in hefty debt. I am all about helping people who help themselves. I try to refrain from commenting on the rest of humanity that waste oxygen.


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Gunhaver
07-02-2012, 08:30
So are you going to man up and get a second job to help out your friend or not?

No I'm not. I already work 60 hours a week and I spend a lot of time helping her out with a lot of things she can't do.

Let me explain this to you very carefully. The money to help her if she winds up benefiting from ACA will be coming from two sources, those that are for ACA and those that are against. Those that are for, great. They have no problem with it. Those that are against? Well, I know that type. The vast majority have had their will government imposed on others with regards to matters that don't even affect them.

Now I ask you, if I shouldn't feel bad that these people have the government enforcing their opinion that this person can't marry that person or she can't have an abortion or you have to go to prison for growing the wrong plant all because those things hurts these people's delicate sensibilities then...

Why should I feel bad that those same people are pissed that their precious overreaching government requires them to pay extra taxes to make health care more affordable for everyone ESPECIALLY since we're all already paying for it anyway?

G29Reload
07-02-2012, 08:35
I used to listen to too much talk radio and I was against obabmcare, then I met someone who really needs it and doesn't have any other options. Preexisting conditions make her uninsurable and medication costs are insane.


Not an excuse to steal money from me or anyone else, nor to rape and pillage the Constitution, or infringe on others.

Lethaltxn
07-02-2012, 08:36
Not an excuse to steal money from me or anyone else, nor to rape and pillage the Constitution, or infringe on others.
Sure it is. It makes them "feel" better about themselves. Low self esteem is bad.

G29Reload
07-02-2012, 08:37
I'm starting to see how this conservatism thing works. A human life is worth more than a person's right to choose to have a medical procedure but not a justification to steal others private property.".



Fixed it for ya.

Gunhaver
07-02-2012, 08:39
Fixed it for ya.

:rofl: It means exactly the same thing. :rofl:

Especially since it's not really stealing since it's all SCOTUS approved nice and legal now.

Goaltender66
07-02-2012, 08:44
Let me explain this to you very carefully. The money to help her if she winds up benefiting from ACA will be coming from two sources, those that are for ACA and those that are against. Those that are for, great. They have no problem with it. Those that are against? Well, I know that type. The vast majority have had their will government imposed on others with regards to matters that don't even affect them.

Now I ask you, if I shouldn't feel bad that these people have the government enforcing their opinion that this person can't marry that person or she can't have an abortion or you have to go to prison for growing the wrong plant all because those things hurts these people's delicate sensibilities then...

Why should I feel bad that those same people are pissed that their precious overreaching government requires them to pay extra taxes to make health care more affordable for everyone ESPECIALLY since we're all already paying for it anyway?

So more simply, you're OK with government forcing business into bankruptcy and nationalizing private industry because...it overreaches (in your opinion) in other areas?

I've never heard socialized medicine justified through the lens of banned gay "marriage" before.

I think you'd be better off saying you're OK with ACA because you (or your friend) hope to benefit from it out of proportion with what you actually hope to pay. Problem is, not all costs with socialized medicine are monetary.

Look, with all sympathies to your friend...but bad things happen. A government that insulates against all bad things is, well, one that "overreaches" in all areas. I can feel great sympathy for your friend but still be against a government that forces one to buy health insurance against his will to pay for her treatment.

JFrame
07-02-2012, 08:44
I always found Marx interesting, but I find that his logic is based on people doing all they could to their ability. Now the problem with this is most don't do to their ability. Their are a lot of people who's actions are walking to the mailbox and *****ing to me they have a dollar copay on their COPD meds that they purchased with a carton of cigarettes.
I came from a background that the government considered me disabled. I got into the vocational rehabilitation program and they assisted with paying for me to get my PharmD. Note they assisted not paid for all or gave me a hand out. I worked and went to school and am still in hefty debt. I am all about helping people who help themselves. I try to refrain from commenting on the rest of humanity that waste oxygen.


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Yup -- Marx was living in a fantasy land of false expectations and non-existent rationality...A land that his devotees have resided in ever since.


.

gwalchmai
07-02-2012, 08:47
No I'm not. I already work 60 hours a week and I spend a lot of time helping her out with a lot of things she can't do.

Let me explain this to you very carefully. The money to help her if she winds up benefiting from ACA will be coming from two sources, those that are for ACA and those that are against. Those that are for, great. They have no problem with it. Those that are against? Well, I know that type. The vast majority have had their will government imposed on others with regards to matters that don't even affect them.

Now I ask you, if I shouldn't feel bad that these people have the government enforcing their opinion that this person can't marry that person or she can't have an abortion or you have to go to prison for growing the wrong plant all because those things hurts these people's delicate sensibilities then...

Why should I feel bad that those same people are pissed that their precious overreaching government requires them to pay extra taxes to make health care more affordable for everyone ESPECIALLY since we're all already paying for it anyway?So a lot of your support for ACA stems from a desire for revenge, then?

gwalchmai
07-02-2012, 08:50
I always found Marx interesting, but I find that his logic is based on people doing all they could to their ability. Now the problem with this is most don't do to their ability. True, many utopian schemes fail when they have to face reality. As bad as capitalism is, it evolved in the real world and works better there than anything else so far.

JFrame
07-02-2012, 08:51
You don't say? Then why all the fuss? The charities can just pick up all the slack right? Please enlighten me on which charity I can have her send her $40,000 in medical bills to. Would it be the same one that'll send her a monthly check to cover the medication costs?

Perhaps you're philosophically approaching this the wrong way? You could take to the airwaves, the Internet, local churches, etc., to bring attention to this person's plight. You might find that Americans are inherently a pretty generous people, and that they will chip in to voluntarily provide whatever material (or other) assistance they can -- rather than advocating for the forceful statist confiscation of those same resources. Of course, this would all take some effort on your part, which at this time you don't appear to be willing to expend.


.

Cavalry Doc
07-02-2012, 08:52
So a lot of your support for AHA stems from a desire for revenge, then?

A lot of people fail to see that much of what led to their current situation was their own lack of initiative and poor choices, so therefore, it must be the fault of others.

gwalchmai
07-02-2012, 08:54
Perhaps you're philosophically approaching this the wrong way? You could take to the airwaves, the Internet, local churches, etc., to bring attention to this person's plight. You might find that Americans are inherently a pretty generous people, and that they will chip in to voluntarily provide whatever material (or other) assistance they can -- rather than advocating for the forceful statist confiscation of those same resources. Of course, this would all take some effort on your part, which at this time you don't appear to be willing to expend.


.Good point - the insulted bus monitor made half a million bucks last week from donations.

JFrame
07-02-2012, 09:18
Good point - the insulted bus monitor made half a million bucks last week from donations.


Yeah -- a free vacation basically turned into a retirement fund.


.

pmcjury
07-02-2012, 09:35
No I'm not. I already work 60 hours a week and I spend a lot of time helping her out with a lot of things she can't do.

Let me explain this to you very carefully. The money to help her if she winds up benefiting from ACA will be coming from two sources, those that are for ACA and those that are against. Those that are for, great. They have no problem with it. Those that are against? Well, I know that type. The vast majority have had their will government imposed on others with regards to matters that don't even affect them.

Now I ask you, if I shouldn't feel bad that these people have the government enforcing their opinion that this person can't marry that person or she can't have an abortion or you have to go to prison for growing the wrong plant all because those things hurts these people's delicate sensibilities then...

Why should I feel bad that those same people are pissed that their precious overreaching government requires them to pay extra taxes to make health care more affordable for everyone ESPECIALLY since we're all already paying for it anyway?

Let's cut out all the bs and politics and make this nice and simple. You are fine with that as long as it is going to a cause that you think is worthy. What are you going to do when the government starts stealing from you to pay for this lady's medication. How are you going to feel about it then. How about when your insurance premiums double because insurance companies are going to be forced to cover very expensive medications and treatment for people that would have been denied coverage.

Do you agree that this is a socialist program? If you do I would suggest taking a look at the medical system that is on place in other countries that have adopted socialism. Would you want to go to those countries for your medical care?
Sent from my Droid incredible using Swype

FuturePharmD
07-02-2012, 09:40
I volunteer a good bit of time at a pharmacy that is run solely on donations (both time and monetary) and physicians and drug companies providing the medications from samples distributed. It is my duty to provide the counseling and other legal requirements of the state, and to also make changes to fulfill patients needs with meds we have. This of course is done at no cost to the patients. Help is available to those who look.
I bet I spend 5-6 hours a week helping patients get signed up on medication assistance for the drugs they can't get covered and the assistance is all through the drug companies. I'm anxious to see how long that will last now that the government is putting their fat foot in that aspect.
My point is help is available to those willing to look for it, but for those looking to use the poor pitiful me sob story they choose to turn a blind eye. They benefit more from people's pity and handouts.


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certifiedfunds
07-02-2012, 09:48
No I'm not. I already work 60 hours a week and I spend a lot of time helping her out with a lot of things she can't do.



So work 80. I'm fine with that. Quit being so selfish and lazy.

I work 12-16 hour days 6 days a week. That's not good enough for you so you think the government should essentially make me work more to pay for your friend's meds. I think you need to work more.

Let me explain this to you very carefully. The money to help her if she winds up benefiting from ACA will be coming from two sources, those that are for ACA and those that are against. Those that are for, great. They have no problem with it. Those that are against? Well, I know that type. The vast majority have had their will government imposed on others with regards to matters that don't even affect them.



How foolish is that?

The folks who are FOR Obamacare are FOR it because they want someone else picking up the tab for their healthcare.

Leeches, plain and simple. Parasites.

Now I ask you, if I shouldn't feel bad that these people have the government enforcing their opinion that this person can't marry that person or she can't have an abortion or you have to go to prison for growing the wrong plant all because those things hurts these people's delicate sensibilities then...

Why should I feel bad that those same people are pissed that their precious overreaching government requires them to pay extra taxes to make health care more affordable for everyone ESPECIALLY since we're all already paying for it anyway?

YOU PEOPLE support big government that can impose penalties on people for not participating in the collective healthcare program. Not me. What you're learning the hard way is that big government cuts both ways.

Fire can be used to provide warmth and cook food. It can also burn your house down.

Stop whining and looking for the government to force someone else to solve your problems. Be a man and solve them yourself. Get a second job.

certifiedfunds
07-02-2012, 09:52
I just wanted to highlight this again. This is truly despicable.

If you're asking me if I'd condone the government coming to your house and confiscating your BMW and leaving you with a Kia to keep her alive then yes. I'd have no problem with that.

JFrame
07-02-2012, 09:57
I just wanted to highlight this again. This is truly despicable.


Yeah...I'm not sure even some of the more strident leftists on this forum would be comfortable backing up that remark.


.

Gunhaver
07-02-2012, 10:03
I'm just going to say this and then I'm out.

The vast majority of people that are all upset about ACA are just fine with government overreaching. They advocate for it every day when they elect officials based on their single issue and shuffle out to the polls to let the government know what they'd like it to do for them with no regard for whether it's actually within the scope of the government's power or not. Damn near every single one of you are guilty of this so I don't feel any need to justify my politics on this topic to any of you.

"Hey, you got to do something about this plant that people are growing. It makes a much better paper than wood but I'm all invested in wood and I could loose a lot of money. Some people like to smoke some types of that plant so you could say that it's all bad and ban it all. There's some power in it for you. You like power don'cha Mr. Government man? Please, please pick me as a winner and them as a looser. Hey, I like that. Looser. We could slap that label on anyone that ever has anything to do with that horrible plant that looses me money."


"Mr. government man, I need you to make sure them gays can't get married because it goes against my religion. Now we can't say that because of that pesky 'Seperation of Church and State' limitation on government so we'll have to make up some garbage about them all being child rapists and spreading AIDS but you got to do something about this because it just makes me feel icky. You already got your hands in recognizing marriage so it shouldn't be too difficult for you to exclude them based only on the sexes of the people involved. Lets just hope nobody starts in with that equal treatment under the law and civil liberty nonsense."

(and the big one)

"Mr. Government man, this is gonna be a tough one because it's all about dictating terms of people's medical procedures and that's definitely not your place but we want you to do something about these women that think they own their own bodies and are getting abortions. You gotta put a stop to it. It goes against our religion too so we made up a bunch of crap about caring about human life (so long as it doesn't cost us anything) and we want you to extend your power to cover that."

So now all that power is being taken in a direction that those people didn't intend and they're all sore about it. Seem like a bunch of fools to me and fools always make a lot of noise when they're parted from their money.

:tongueout:

certifiedfunds
07-02-2012, 10:04
Yeah...I'm not sure even some of the more strident leftists on this forum would be comfortable backing up that remark.


.

Shows you the evil that we're dealing with.

When you reach this level of government confiscatory policy, forced labor isn't far behind. (that's essentially what they're advocating for now)

BLACKMAGICK
07-02-2012, 10:04
I just wanted to highlight this again. This is truly despicable.

Yes it is. Notice too, the lack of facts. How old is this woman who can't get any kind of assistance? What is the medical condition she has? Does she have kids? Does SHE work? Has she ever? Is she considered disabled? Was she ever in the military?

Can't get ANY assistance? Really?

certifiedfunds
07-02-2012, 10:09
Yes it is. Notice too, the lack of facts. How old is this woman who can't get any kind of assistance? What is the medical condition she has? Does she have kids? Does SHE work? Has she ever? Is she considered disabled? Was she ever in the military?

Can't get ANY assistance? Really?

If she needs $400 worth of med to stay alive and truly can't afford it, the drug company will give it to her.

Gunhaver
07-02-2012, 10:10
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oooooo you guys are cracking me up here!

"They be taking our money!!! This government is out of control!!! Who gave them all this power!!! Nobody ever told us there might come a day when we weren't in charge!!! Gaaaaaaaaaaaa! Quick! Vote for the next guy with an "R" behind his name!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

JFrame
07-02-2012, 10:14
Shows you the evil that we're dealing with.

When you reach this level of government confiscatory policy, forced labor isn't far behind. (that's essentially what they're advocating for now)

Spiritually, it's definitely in line with Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. Their refusal to admit it doesn't make it any less so.


.

certifiedfunds
07-02-2012, 10:15
I wonder how he will feel when, as his friend gets up in years, a government panel decides that the $400 a month to keep his friend healthy just isn't warranted anymore.

"Whole Lives"

Lethaltxn
07-02-2012, 10:15
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oooooo you guys are cracking me up here!

"They be taking our money!!! This government is out of control!!! Who gave them all this power!!! Nobody ever told us there might come a day when we weren't in charge!!! Gaaaaaaaaaaaa! Quick! Vote for the next guy with an "R" behind his name!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

What's wrong? Didn't get the responses you wanted? Keep trolling, you'll get there.

JFrame
07-02-2012, 10:15
Yes it is. Notice too, the lack of facts. How old is this woman who can't get any kind of assistance? What is the medical condition she has? Does she have kids? Does SHE work? Has she ever? Is she considered disabled? Was she ever in the military?

Can't get ANY assistance? Really?


Perhaps her name is Genevieve...? :dunno:


.

BLACKMAGICK
07-02-2012, 10:15
If she needs $400 worth of med to stay alive and truly can't afford it, the drug company will give it to her.

I know...I'm in the medical field. He's full of it, his whole story is a fabrication. He's trolling.

Ruble Noon
07-02-2012, 10:19
You don't say? Then why all the fuss? The charities can just pick up all the slack right? Please enlighten me on which charity I can have her send her $40,000 in medical bills to. Would it be the same one that'll send her a monthly check to cover the medication costs?

I know you've all been conditioned to think that anyone who would dare not vehemently oppose ACA must be a butt reaming retard but I assure you that's not the case. In fact the reaction to the recent SCOTUS decision has me thinking the opposite is true. We've explored every option.

Who do you think would know better what possible options a person has in any given situation, the person in that situation or some internet pundit throwing out the first thing that pops into his head?

So she is $40,000 in debt but receiving life saving treatment. The system that you are championing might not give your friend life saving treatment. Personally I would rather be in debt and alive.
You should really look into the complete lives system that obamacare is based off of and the man behind it, Zeke Emmanuel before you start advocating for socialized medicine.

Ruble Noon
07-02-2012, 10:20
Perhaps her name is Genevieve...? :dunno:


.

:rofl::rofl:

Cavalry Doc
07-02-2012, 10:33
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oooooo you guys are cracking me up here!

"They be taking our money!!! This government is out of control!!! Who gave them all this power!!! Nobody ever told us there might come a day when we weren't in charge!!! Gaaaaaaaaaaaa! Quick! Vote for the next guy with an "R" behind his name!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Well now. That was very revealing.

G29Reload
07-02-2012, 10:34
:rofl: It means exactly the same thing.

No, it doesn't.


Taxation is legalized theft when it goes beyond into things we can and should be doing for ourselves.



Especially since it's not really stealing since it's all SCOTUS approved nice and legal now.

Legalized theft, confiscation of private property. SCOTUS is now operating above the COTUS.

gwalchmai
07-02-2012, 10:34
I'm just going to say this and then I'm out.Well, bye!
"Hey, you got to do something about this plant that people are growing. ...I've said I'm in favor of MJ decriminalization many times on this forum.

Mr. government man, I need you to make sure them gays can't get married because it goes against my religion. I've also said I don't care who or what you want to marry - I just don't care to hear all about the details.

"Mr. Government man, this is gonna be a tough one because it's all about dictating terms of people's medical procedures and that's definitely not your place but we want you to do something about these women that think they own their own bodies and are getting abortions. Nope, don't care about that one, either. It's between you and God, AFAIC.

So now all that power is being taken in a direction that those people didn't intend and they're all sore about it. Seem like a bunch of fools to me and fools always make a lot of noise when they're parted from their money.

:tongueout:No, many of us are against ACA because it will bankrupt us and make the gummint even more overbearing.

G29Reload
07-02-2012, 10:36
I know...I'm in the medical field. He's full of it, his whole story is a fabrication. He's trolling.

He's been a troll from day one. Lives for it.

gwalchmai
07-02-2012, 10:37
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oooooo you guys are cracking me up here! I thought you said you were out... :upeyes:

Cavalry Doc
07-02-2012, 11:12
I thought you said you were out... :upeyes:

And evidently lied. Troll 101.

whoflungdo
07-02-2012, 11:14
I'm just going to say this and then I'm out.

.....
Damn near every single one of you are guilty of this so I don't feel any need to justify my politics on this topic to any of you.

....

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oooooo you guys are cracking me up here!

"They be taking our money!!! This government is out of control!!! Who gave them all this power!!! Nobody ever told us there might come a day when we weren't in charge!!! Gaaaaaaaaaaaa! Quick! Vote for the next guy with an "R" behind his name!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Two more of your lies. You didn't leave as promised, at least on this subject, and you obviously do care because you keep trying to justify your opinions.


Keep trying..

gwalchmai
07-02-2012, 11:28
And evidently lied. Troll 101.Yeah, he may not even have a sick girlfriend...

JFrame
07-02-2012, 11:42
Yeah, he may not even have a sick girlfriend...


Lying about healthcare in regard to a sick friend/relative/etc. seems to be a standard leftist ploy going all the way up to the current president:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/14/us/politics/14mother.html?_r=1


.

JohnnyReb
07-02-2012, 13:00
This Gunhaver guy is all about some Gay marriage. I have seen him bring it up in multiple threads. Clearly, gay rights is something very dear to him.

GlockPride
07-02-2012, 14:17
Gunhaver-not for very long once o-care deems guns too expensive for the general good of the populace.

madbaumer
07-02-2012, 16:29
I'm too much of a coward. The thugs would kick down my door, shoot my dog, put me in prison and make my family homeless.

That's why those who risk all of that and deprive fedzilla of money should be heralded and admired. True patriots indeed. They are willing to risk their lives, fortunes and sacred honor to do the right thing.




Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Last line in the DOI.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
*****

Those men signed their own death warrrant.

We have very few if any today willing to sign their own Death Warrant today.

Brucev
07-02-2012, 17:30
I assume you want to end Medicare and Social Security too?

How are they any different?

Re: OP. I do not support the obamatax. As to the others... I was not old enough to vote when they were passed. They are the heritage of the "Greatest Generation."

janice6
07-02-2012, 18:29
OP: You know what they say about "Assume".

certifiedfunds
07-02-2012, 18:57
Re: OP. I do not support the obamatax. As to the others... I was not old enough to vote when they were passed. They are the heritage of the "Greatest Generation."

The greatest generation and their parents did more to advance the cause of socialism than any others in american history


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Hef
07-02-2012, 20:41
I assume you want to end Medicare and Social Security too?

How are they any different?

I do want all three ended. Social Insecurity is little more than another revenue stream for Congress. Stay out of my wallet.

Cavalry Doc
07-02-2012, 20:58
The greatest generation and their parents did more to advance the cause of socialism than any others in american history


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Sad but true. We owed them a lot, but holy cow....... Their childrena and grandchildren (as a whole) weren't much better.

You can only give rewards that you can afford. You cannot cure all of the worlds ills.

certifiedfunds
07-02-2012, 21:06
Sad but true. We owed them a lot, but holy cow....... Their childrena and grandchildren (as a whole) weren't much better.

You can only give rewards that you can afford. You cannot cure all of the worlds ills.

That is a very good way to put it


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Lesh
07-03-2012, 12:40
Preexisting conditions make her uninsurable .
.

As a rule, preexisting conditions don't make you uninsurable, they just create a waiting period after you purchase coverage before they will pay for costs related to the preexisting condition. Typically the waiting period is six months.

How would car insurance work if you didn't have to buy insurance until after you had an accident????

Brucev
07-03-2012, 13:12
The greatest generation and their parents did more to advance the cause of socialism than any others in american history


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

On the whole the Great Depression was the formative experience of the Greatest Generation. In the post-war years there was a greater sense of confidence in govt. and in the ability of the nation to work for commonly held goals. Many of that era had very positive experiences in military service that strengthened their confidence in the potential of govt. to accomplish common good for working men and women.

Were they wrong. No. Their attitudes were shaped by the experience of shared sacrifice at the community and national level. They had no way of knowing that that sense of commonality would be set aside by post-modern hyper-individualism.

FuturePharmD
07-03-2012, 13:16
Just for completeness sake I am going to give an example. When I switched health insurances I was given a year of non-coverage for my pre-existing condition, but was insured for any major incident (accident, complication etc) that resulted in treatment even during that time. So basically I had insurance they were just protecting themselves from me waiting til I switched to have something major done.
My car insurance lapsed from the time I got off my parents policy to my own( mom canceled policy before I could get mine set up) and I had to pay a year of premiums of full coverage before I could receive full coverage benefits. So for a year I paid for full coverage on my truck, but really only had liability.
Insurance is all the same, we have it incase something happens and they work in the basis of taking in more then they pay out. They spend a ton of money researching how to come out in the black, and in the case of healthcare they make sure the doctor and pharmacist are not skipping a cheaper alternative out of preference. In my experience the government policies I have delt with have not only "preferred" the cheaper option, but will deny payment if they feel it cost too much.
If this care act goes through the way it has been explained, we are going to see a decline in healthcare and the people will finally understand why people that have universal healthcare will come to America on their own dime to receive competent and adequate care.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

JFrame
07-03-2012, 13:20
Just for completeness sake I am going to give an example. When I switched health insurances I was given a year of non-coverage for my pre-existing condition, but was insured for any major incident (accident, complication etc) that resulted in treatment even during that time. So basically I had insurance they were just protecting themselves from me waiting til I switched to have something major done.
My car insurance lapsed from the time I got off my parents policy to my own( mom canceled policy before I could get mine set up) and I had to pay a year of premiums of full coverage before I could receive full coverage benefits. So for a year I paid for full coverage on my truck, but really only had liability.
Insurance is all the same, we have it incase something happens and they work in the basis of taking in more then they pay out. They spend a ton of money researching how to come out in the black, and in the case of healthcare they make sure the doctor and pharmacist are not skipping a cheaper alternative out of preference. In my experience the government policies I have delt with have not only "preferred" the cheaper option, but will deny payment if they feel it cost too much.
If this care act goes through the way it has been explained, we are going to see a decline in healthcare and the people will finally understand why people that have universal healthcare will come to America on their own dime to receive competent and adequate care.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Keep beating that drum, FuturePharmD -- hopefully you'll get through to some of the deniers here...


.

Bren
07-03-2012, 13:32
I assume you want to end Medicare and Social Security too?

How are they any different?

Well, medicare is only for the elderly, so at least it is limited to those who can't work, instead of those who won't, and social security is a sytem you contribute to, so not a handout. That was easy.

Cavalry Doc
07-03-2012, 13:44
Last line in the DOI.

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
*****

Those men signed their own death warrrant.

We have very few if any today willing to sign their own Death Warrant today.

You're forgetting some. The founders would not have accomplished much without the Continental Army.


A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

madbaumer
07-03-2012, 16:31
You're forgetting some. The founders would not have accomplished much without the Continental Army.

This is true.

Don't forget that many of the men that signed the DOI provided the funds and goods necessary for the Continental Army. In doing so, many lost their lives and members of their family along with their fortune.

:patriot:

lancesorbenson
07-03-2012, 19:25
social security is a sytem you contribute to, so not a handout. That was easy.

Contribute? It's a tax and nothing more. Your "contribution" is long gone by the time you get a dime. It's up to the government to collect more money from current producers to pay out so oldsters can ride around in RVs or watch TV all day.

rgregoryb
07-03-2012, 20:01
The greatest generation and their parents did more to advance the cause of socialism than any others in american history


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and Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan would have been a better outcome for us? My father spent several years in the South Pacific, wounded (not enough to come home) he got medicare at 65 I guess he was a socialist.

rgregoryb
07-03-2012, 20:07
Contribute? It's a tax and nothing more. Your "contribution" is long gone by the time you get a dime. It's up to the government to collect more money from current producers to pay out so oldsters can ride around in RVs or watch TV all day.

I have no RV, but I do have a killer Samsung Smart TV LED, 3D..thanks sonny

Still thinking about that 2013 GT 500 and naming it Certified Fun, me and grandma will be way cool. I'll get a prestige tag (THX SS)

well time to go pour me a fine dram of Single Malt

nmstew
07-03-2012, 20:08
Well, medicare is only for the elderly, so at least it is limited to those who can't work, instead of those who won't, and social security is a sytem you contribute to, so not a handout. That was easy.

You also get Medicare if a doctor claims you are disabled. You'd be surprised what counts as a disability now-a-days; obesity, chroic fatigue, anything with "myalgia" in it, depression, HIV infection no matter what your viral load, hair not falling the same way, etc.

Cavalry Doc
07-03-2012, 20:16
This is true.

Don't forget that many of the men that signed the DOI provided the funds and goods necessary for the Continental Army. In doing so, many lost their lives and members of their family along with their fortune.

:patriot:

Never did. But heroes are still walking the Earth. Being so close to the 4th of July, thought it would be OK to remind you.

Ruble Noon
07-03-2012, 20:29
You also get Medicare if a doctor claims you are disabled. You'd be surprised what counts as a disability now-a-days; obesity, chroic fatigue, anything with "myalgia" in it, depression, HIV infection no matter what your viral load, hair not falling the same way, etc.

Disability is now the safety net for Americans who have expended their 99 weeks of unemployment.

certifiedfunds
07-03-2012, 22:46
and Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan would have been a better outcome for us? My father spent several years in the South Pacific, wounded (not enough to come home) he got medicare at 65 I guess he was a socialist.

I find it just a bit ironic that they fought socialism in Europe only to come home and vote for it time and again.

certifiedfunds
07-03-2012, 22:49
On the whole the Great Depression was the formative experience of the Greatest Generation. In the post-war years there was a greater sense of confidence in govt. and in the ability of the nation to work for commonly held goals. Many of that era had very positive experiences in military service that strengthened their confidence in the potential of govt. to accomplish common good for working men and women.

Were they wrong. No. Their attitudes were shaped by the experience of shared sacrifice at the community and national level. They had no way of knowing that that sense of commonality would be set aside by post-modern hyper-individualism.

Of course they were wrong, as were their parents. One's formative experiences don't dictate right and wrong. This crap started at the turn of the century, they were simply the second generation.

And now enough of them vote single issue socialism that MC and SS are called the third rail.

rgregoryb
07-04-2012, 06:51
I find it just a bit ironic that they fought socialism in Europe only to come home and vote for it time and again.

last I checked the South Pacific is not near Europe, we declared war on Japan first...then Germany declared war on us

gwalchmai
07-04-2012, 06:59
last I checked the South Pacific is not near Europe, we declared war on Japan first...then Germany declared war on usI wonder how many GIs in the South Pacific would not have agreed that they were fighting the Nazis if asked.

Cavalry Doc
07-04-2012, 07:44
I wonder how many GIs in the South Pacific would not have agreed that they were fighting the Nazis if asked.

My grandfather has been gone for a while, but he always referred to fighting the Japs. Even thinking hard about it now, I don't remember him mentioning the Germans at all. To this day, my family will never own a Japanese branded vehicle out of respect for him.

Ruble Noon
07-04-2012, 07:52
My grandfather has been gone for a while, but he always referred to fighting the Japs. Even thinking hard about it now, I don't remember him mentioning the Germans at all. To this day, my family will never own a Japanese branded vehicle out of respect for him.

As did mine that fought in the Pacific. The other one fought the "Krauts" in Europe.

gwalchmai
07-04-2012, 07:52
My grandfather has been gone for a while, but he always referred to fighting the Japs. Even thinking hard about it now, I don't remember him mentioning the Germans at all. To this day, my family will never own a Japanese branded vehicle out of respect for him.So if you had asked him in 1944 if he was at war with the Germans what do you think he would have said?

QNman
07-04-2012, 07:54
I assume you want to end Medicare and Social Security too?

How are they any different?

Yes, I do.

They're different, but not enough different.

Cavalry Doc
07-04-2012, 08:19
I find it just a bit ironic that they fought socialism in Europe only to come home and vote for it time and again.

It's a lot more complicated than that. Disclaimer, the following is my opinion. It includes general statements not pointed at any individual.




The Generation that won WWII had every right to feel entitled upon their return. That was a monumental achievement that required the cooperation of almost all of the country. If you can get a hold of some 1940's magazines, EVERY advertisement mentioned how that company was helping the war effort. Most of the people in that generation were the types that would spit in the face of anyone that would offer them a welfare check. It was an embarrassment to be on public assistance. Things changed slowly. Just a little more of this, a little more of that, the government will help you save money, the government will help you with your medical bills when you get older, after all you earned it. And for the most part, they did. But it went a bit too far.

Greed and Jealousy are insidious... The boomers were where we really screwed up. Historically speaking, they had it easy. Yeah, they had a vague memory of Korea and they did deal with Vietnam, but look at the change in how young people viewed WWII and Vietnam. In a single generation, we lost the will to win. Aided by the media, the country was demoralized. Boomers felt it was only fair that they have at least as much as their parents, and even more. But on average, they didn't earn it. Didn't stop them for asking for it. Morality plunged. Staying stoned was ok now. Teenage pregnancy was starting to be OK now. Not doing your civic duty was applauded. Truly the beginning of the "me first" mindset of America. Money for nuthin' (welfare) was OK, nothing you would mention to your friends, but privately among family, it was accepted. Getting a Job was still respected, and careers were important.

It didn't get much better with my generation. Still riding high off the efforts of our grandparents, never truly understanding the stories of the great depression, video games, the mindless 80's, movies, MTV, and the me generation flourished. The hippies had fully infiltrated the schools, and filled young people with group think mentality. Environmentalism, condoms became very important, and the military was for people who couldn't get a real Job or afford college. In my suburban Ohio school, we graduated about 750, 1 went to west point, and three enlisted. I and my twin were two of the three that enlisted.

The generation after, my children's generation, wow. Public assistance is a competition to see who can get more. If you can't get on that, get on disability. Working is for suckas. Every alternative lifestyle is applauded, Teen pregnancy has become perfectly normal. The schools are a joke. My wife and I had to supplement my children's education quite a bit. We focused on the sciences and math, but as an example, I took two years of spanish in high school. My 23 year old child took 4 years of spanish in high school, in an area that speaks a lot more spanish than where I grew up, and I speak spanish much better than she does. And she's smart, scary smart, runs circles around me with calculus. The point is, schools don't teach anymore. The news doesn't inform anymore. The people don't know anymore. Watch any shows that stop people on the street and ask them questions about anything, and you'll see where most of America is right now. They have achieved comfortably numb status.


It'll be interesting to see how the next Great Depression goes. I expect it to be very interesting at the beginning, when "the Public" realizes where we are. A lot of people are in for a very hard time, including those of us that see it coming.

You cannot lay the blame on any one generation. Everyone that has lived in the last 80 years has some part in where we are now.

Cavalry Doc
07-04-2012, 08:23
So if you had asked him in 1944 if he was at war with the Germans what do you think he would have said?

In 1944? He probably would have thrown me overboard to clear my head and get spatially reacquainted with which hemisphere of the world I was on.

gwalchmai
07-04-2012, 08:44
In 1944? He probably would have thrown me overboard to clear my head and get spatially reacquainted with which hemisphere of the world I was on.You mean he would have said something to the effect of "Heck no, I'm fighting the Japs. I got no beef with Hitler!"

Respectfully, I disagree. ;)

Cavalry Doc
07-04-2012, 09:16
You mean he would have said something to the effect of "Heck no, I'm fighting the Japs. I got no beef with Hitler!"

Respectfully, I disagree. ;)

No, you got that all wrong, in 1944, If I were speaking to him, we would have been in the pacific on a sub chaser. If I had asked him if we were fighting the Germans, he'd have reminded me I was on the wrong side of the planet for that. Other men were fighting the Germans.

He was probably the most focused no nonsense guy I have ever met.

In combat, you tend to want to know what is happening a couple or three echelons higher, a sense of the theater mission, but that's about it. When I was in Iraq, I knew there were some issues with North Korea, but that was far enough out of my theater of operations to not be much of an issue for me to think of often. I had plenty of things to occupy my attention where I was.

certifiedfunds
07-04-2012, 10:02
The Generation that won WWII had every right to feel entitled upon their return. That was a monumental achievement that required the cooperation of almost all of the country.

I edited this quote out of an otherwise eloquently-written post.

However, no one has a right to feel entitled. My mind struggles a bit with hearing words like "service" "duty" and then following it with "entitled".

Entitled to what, exactly? How much of it? What limits? When is the payback complete? Never?

Does it justify creating a legacy of a welfare/entitlement state that ultimately destroys the very principles they fought for and the nation was founded upon?

Cavalry Doc
07-04-2012, 10:37
I edited this quote out of an otherwise eloquently-written post.

However, no one has a right to feel entitled. My mind struggles a bit with hearing words like "service" "duty" and then following it with "entitled".

Entitled to what, exactly? How much of it? What limits? When is the payback complete? Never?

Does it justify creating a legacy of a welfare/entitlement state that ultimately destroys the very principles they fought for and the nation was founded upon?

Well, taken out of context, that doesn't mean the same as what I was saying.

Entitled to congratulations. Maybe a little help with college, maybe healthcare for their war wounds.

Politicians kept sweetening the pot, MUCH more than was necessary. And it never stopped, even when the Boomers didn't deserve it, the gravy train was a proven way to get elected.

It took a while, but greed and laziness fed by free food and money have just about finished us.

gwalchmai
07-04-2012, 10:41
No, you got that all wrong, in 1944, If I were speaking to him, we would have been in the pacific on a sub chaser. If I had asked him if we were fighting the Germans, he'd have reminded me I was on the wrong side of the planet for that. Other men were fighting the Germans. Yeah, I know what you meant. I was just funnin'. :thumbsup:

Cavalry Doc
07-04-2012, 11:01
Yeah, I know what you meant. I was just funnin'. :thumbsup:

OK, just want to point out that I have not started drinking yet.....

:wavey:

Happy 4th. :patriot:

gwalchmai
07-04-2012, 11:02
I have a two hour EDT advantage... ;)

Cavalry Doc
07-04-2012, 11:12
EDT is only one hour ahead. Yer cheatin' ;)

http://slidingdoortrackrepair.com/images/us-time-zones-map.gif

QNman
07-04-2012, 11:20
It's five o'clock somewhere, Doc.

:rofl:

JFrame
07-04-2012, 11:20
I have a two hour EDT advantage... ;)

EDT is only one hour ahead. Yer cheatin' ;)




Whatever the time zone -- I plan to be caught up with you guys by the end of the day... :tequila:


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QNman
07-04-2012, 11:20
I have a two hour EDT advantage... ;)

:cheers:

QNman
07-04-2012, 11:21
Whatever the time zone -- I plan to be caught up with you guys by the end of the day... :tequila:


.

:rofl:

Party starts at 4:00 here.

:drunk:

gwalchmai
07-04-2012, 11:29
EDT is only one hour ahead. Yer cheatin' ;)

http://slidingdoortrackrepair.com/images/us-time-zones-map.gifI'm on the east side of the house.

Ruble Noon
07-04-2012, 11:29
OK, just want to point out that I have not started drinking yet.....

:wavey:

Happy 4th. :patriot:

You can't drink all day unless you start in the morning.

JFrame
07-04-2012, 12:18
:rofl:

Party starts at 4:00 here.

:drunk:


5:30 here... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_drink.gif

Damn! There's that catching up part again... :supergrin:


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