Second best polymer to HK. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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NEOH212
07-01-2012, 23:18
Some might not agree but I'm personally convinced that HK makes the best polymer pistol period. (Don't bother trying to convince me otherwise as I'm convinced and dead set on that.)

So, who makes the second best polymer pistol to HK?

I still say Glock is king second to HK.

How about you? If you feel like typing, include why you feel the way you do.

:wavey:

EMTCOP
07-01-2012, 23:24
You are right. Some might not agree.

mrsurfboard
07-01-2012, 23:31
M&P, Glock or maybe FNH for #2

mrsurfboard
07-01-2012, 23:32
You are right. Some might not agree.

If you really believe Glock is better then H&K (and we aren't talking price) then you might want to lay off the koolaid.

NEOH212
07-01-2012, 23:36
If you really believe Glock is better then H&K (and we aren't talking price) then you might want to lay off the koolaid.

:thumbsup:

12131
07-01-2012, 23:37
Some might not agree but I'm personally convinced that HK makes the best polymer pistol period. (Don't bother trying to convince me otherwise as I'm convinced and dead set on that.)

So, who makes the second best polymer pistol to HK?

I still say Glock is king second to HK none.

How about you? If you feel like typing, include why you feel the way you do.

:wavey:
I agree with you there.
:supergrin:

Gregg702
07-01-2012, 23:42
Polymer guns?:ack:









:wavey::rofl:

Metal Angel
07-02-2012, 00:03
In my opinion HK is in a weird class of its own... No one else makes a plastic gun that high quality. The FNP 45 tactical just might be up there, but in my opinion, it is the standout in the FN lineup with all their other models falling behind Glock in quality.

So excluding the FNP 45 tactical, I agree with the OP. Glock makes the best plastics south of HK.

Sheepdog Scout
07-02-2012, 00:32
All I know for certain is that HK is overpriced. Their pistols aren't any better than most polymers.

Tiro Fijo
07-02-2012, 01:21
If you really believe Glock is better then H&K (and we aren't talking price) then you might want to lay off the koolaid.


Sure, $900 for a Lorcin trigger!! :rofl:


IMO, the Walther PPQ is a better gun than the H&K P30.

oldnoob
07-02-2012, 01:28
Don't want to get into what's better than what, but Steyr build one hell of solid polymer pistol.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/johell/My%20gun/Steyrleft.jpg

oldnoob
07-02-2012, 01:40
All I know for certain is that HK is overpriced. Their pistols aren't any better than most polymers.

I agree on the USP's plastic part is no better than Glock. But I do like how smooth the slide action in my USP. And I think the mag release was very well designed.

And as to the overpriced comment, it's worth whatever you willing to pay for. Some believe Glock was over price.

G26S239
07-02-2012, 03:13
In my opinion HK is in a weird class of its own... No one else makes a plastic gun that high quality. The FNP 45 tactical just might be up there, but in my opinion, it is the standout in the FN lineup with all their other models falling behind Glock in quality.

So excluding the FNP 45 tactical, I agree with the OP. Glock makes the best plastics south of HK.

The only FN I have tried is the FNP 40 I own. It is in no way inferior to any of the 7 Glocks I own or the 4 I no longer have.

longhair
07-02-2012, 03:52
Nobody makes a better plastic 2 liter bottle than Coke. Although, Pepsi makes a close second.

CBennett
07-02-2012, 04:20
I say HK,Steyr,M&P,XD(m) series,Glock,FN and then the Ruger SR9c. BUT IMO there is very little difference among them as far as how much better id rate one over another...as a matter of fact in my book Steyr and HK are at a tie for #1

bac1023
07-02-2012, 04:36
There is no clear cut 2nd place, in my opinion. However, I do agree that HK is the best.

Bren
07-02-2012, 04:45
Some might not agree but I'm personally convinced that HK makes the best polymer pistol period. (Don't bother trying to convince me otherwise as I'm convinced and dead set on that.)


:rofl:

Best I can tell, rabid H&K fan = :mallninja:

Just about every time.

vafish
07-02-2012, 04:52
Some might not agree but I'm personally convinced that HK makes the best polymer pistol period. (Don't bother trying to convince me otherwise as I'm convinced and dead set on that.)

So, who makes the second best polymer pistol to HK?

I still say Glock is king second to HK.

How about you? If you feel like typing, include why you feel the way you do.

:wavey:

Sounds to me like you need head over to the hk foorums.


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WhiskeyUnicorn
07-02-2012, 04:58
Your mom makes the best muffins second to my mom...this is a dumb thread with no useful info...soooo

I like tuhtles

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Sheepdog Scout
07-02-2012, 05:39
:rofl:

Best I can tell, rabid H&K fan = :mallninja:

Just about every time.

Well, they do make offensive handguns.:rofl:

Sheepdog Scout
07-02-2012, 05:43
Your mom makes the best muffins second to my mom...this is a dumb thread with no useful info...soooo

I like tuhtles

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Are you talking about these: http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h346/VitalExotics/Turtles%20and%20Tortoises/f69bfafb.jpg

or these?

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg166/ujb2000/Celeb%20Graphs/tuttles.jpg
:rofl:

Gdirty5
07-02-2012, 05:52
I love hk, and they are my favorite due to how easy they are to shoot and how easy the controls are to manipulate. Minus the weird decocker on the p30 all the usp's and my hk45c have great controls. I own a Fnp tactical and honestly don't like is as much. The slide stop is darn near flush with the frame, and the safety/decocker isn't as positive in feel as the hk. Only reason I got the Fnp is bc of the optic mount. But as far as who is second, m&p might win that debate, but i feel between the m&p, Glock, xdm, etc it's just a matter or personal preference.

H&K 4 LIFE
07-02-2012, 08:55
I like both HK and Glock Gen 3 pistols.

I also own a FNP-45, and while it is a very accurate gun and I like the trigger better than the HK, I don't think the overall fit and finish is quite as refined as an HK.

I don't have much experience with M&P's, XD's, Walthers or Steyrs. I am sure they are pretty good guns in their own right too.

Just how durable are HK pistols?...

A chat wth an HK Armorer- MUST READ (http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/160710-chat-hk-armorer-must-read.html)

...Now for the best thing he ever could have told me

"If you wanna hear something about how tough these guns are. We had a USP45 come in a few months ago. It was sent to us by Federal Ammunition Company. They wanted us to replace anything needed and evaluate the weapon. To be honest all of the parts on the gun looked original except we could tell they had put newer recoil springs in it. The gun was date coded in the 90's and looked like it had been shot A LOT. So me and the other guys got curious an gave Federal a call asking what the round count was... We gave the lady the serial # and a few keyboard strokes later she says

Are you guys sitting down?

297,000+

Then he says "yeah I can't remember the last 3 digits but I'll never forget the first three":cool:

brisk21
07-02-2012, 09:15
Well I feel that Glocks are the best "overall" hangun, when you look at all the important factors. I just love how simple they are. You could teach a monkey to be an armorer.

itstime
07-02-2012, 09:26
I'm going to chime in and say my Walther. I was really surprised of the accuracy and trigger.

I purchased it as a beater to my P30. The P30 is a "nicer" gun but that PPQ is really really nice to shoot.

45caldan
07-02-2012, 10:00
PPQ takes second place to none IMO.....

Novocaine
07-02-2012, 10:42
P99 is the best. Haven't tried newer HKs though.

s&wfan
07-02-2012, 11:36
I'd be willing to bet that a good percentage of people who call H&K stuff overrated and overpriced have never even shot one, much less owned one.

I think that the HK is clearly the best plastic fantastic. GLOCK would most likely be second, but only for now. I think the M&P is charging up the ranks, and when they get all of the QC issues out of the way, they will be the lineup to beat.

Never buy any handgun when it first comes out, by the way. Let them make a few runs to get all of the production kinks worked out. This is the way to approach buying any new mass-manufactured product, be it a gun, a television, a video game system, a car, anything.

March817
07-02-2012, 11:50
But my favorite HK isn't polymer.:fred:

mrsurfboard
07-02-2012, 12:02
:rofl:

Best I can tell, rabid H&K fan = :mallninja:

Just about every time.

And what does a rabid Glock fan equal? From what I've read here, many (not all) of the rabid Glock Fanboys only own a Glock and know very little about other handguns outside their koolaid induced delusion.

mrsurfboard
07-02-2012, 12:03
I'd be willing to bet that a good percentage of people who call H&K stuff overrated and overpriced have never even shot one, much less owned one.


I said the same thing. I'm also betting they probably own only Glocks and have no idea what else is out there.

Armchair Commando
07-02-2012, 12:06
And what does a rabid Glock fan equal? .

Someone who actually shoots their guns and carries them on a daily basis! They don't sit in a safe as safe queens like a lot of rabid 1911 fans do with their outdated pistols!

Gdirty5
07-02-2012, 12:47
Someone who actually shoots their guns and carries them on a daily basis! They don't sit in a safe as safe queens like a lot of rabid 1911 fans do with their outdated pistols!

Some of us shoot and carry our HK's and 1911's. Just saying. I carry a p7 PSP, hk USP9c, and SA loaded champion or TRP from time to time.... I do carry a g19, but lately my LCP and CM9 have been my main carry rotation, followed by my M&P9c as the next most carried.

countrygun
07-02-2012, 12:56
http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu208/countrygun/photobucket2.jpg





since the introduction of the "Pro" series they have been getting a lot holster time in other parts of the world with little notice of that fact in the US. They are as accurate as the metal framed Sig service models and have a "Steel on Steel" frame/slide interface. They just don't cost enough to impress people.

Gregg702
07-02-2012, 12:56
Someone who actually shoots their guns and carries them on a daily basis! They don't sit in a safe as safe queens like a lot of rabid 1911 fans do with their outdated pistols!

Yup, because if it isn't a Glock, it is obviously a safe queen. No-one ever shoots anything except Glocks...:whistling:

countrygun
07-02-2012, 13:18
Someone who actually shoots their guns and carries them on a daily basis! They don't sit in a safe as safe queens like a lot of rabid 1911 fans do with their outdated pistols!


Here are a couple of my Browning designs that are so obviously "safe queens" They have a lot more milage on them than my Glocks.

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu208/countrygun/IM002816.jpg

NEOH212
07-02-2012, 13:21
I'd be willing to bet that a good percentage of people who call H&K stuff overrated and overpriced have never even shot one, much less owned one.

I think that the HK is clearly the best plastic fantastic. GLOCK would most likely be second, but only for now. I think the M&P is charging up the ranks, and when they get all of the QC issues out of the way, they will be the lineup to beat.

I agree totally! I didn't start this thread to bash any particular product/manufacture. Based on my experiences, I've found HK to be superior to the other poly guns in many ways.

The people that think otherwise are deluding themselves. The evidence to my opinion speaks for itself.

Glock 17 Gen 4: 48,457 rounds 8 stoppages 0 malfunctions 1 parts breakages. Good gun.

That comes out to one stoppage every 6,057 rounds. Not too bad.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/5782


HK P30: 90,736 rounds 10 stoppages, 0 malfunctions, 5 parts breakages. That comes out to one stoppage every 9,073 rounds. Closer to being on par with Glock but certainly a great gun that went the distance!

http://pistol-training.com/archives/2645

HK 45: 50,000 rounds. 1 stoppages 1 (*) malfunctions (Read the article!!!) 1 parts breakage. Excellent Gun.

1 Stoppage in 50K rounds and one parts breakage! Damn good!

http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027

What I like about these tests is that they are documented and real world. Not some internet commando that probably doesn't even own anything other than a airsoft posting some BS on the web.

Are HK's perfect? Nope! But, they sure do go the distance and from what I see (Realistically, all things considered) HK is truly on top!

And yes. I'm proudly HK every time and for good reason. They make the best!

Glockers can have their Koolaid to wash their Glocks down since they are too hard to swallow without it! :rofl: :tongueout:

By the way, did I mention that I love my Glocks and put them second to HK? I guess that doesn't mean anything though. :upeyes:

mrsurfboard
07-02-2012, 13:21
Someone who actually shoots their guns and carries them on a daily basis! They don't sit in a safe as safe queens like a lot of rabid 1911 fans do with their outdated pistols!

:rofl: You guys make me laugh when you say things like this. Just proves my point even more.

NEOH212
07-02-2012, 13:24
Don't want to get into what's better than what, but Steyr build one hell of solid polymer pistol.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f185/johell/My%20gun/Steyrleft.jpg

Steyr does make a great pistol and I wish they still sold them here. The one that I shot a long while back was simply amazing and the trigger was really nice! :cool:

NEOH212
07-02-2012, 13:25
:rofl:

Best I can tell, rabid H&K fan = :mallninja:

Just about every time.

Yup! :supergrin:

NEOH212
07-02-2012, 13:26
For all the people that are making claims as to, "Brand X" being the best, I don't hear anything as to why you feel that way.

Anyone can throw a opinion out there. Where's your reasoning and proof as to why you feel that way?

:dunno:

45caldan
07-02-2012, 14:04
For all the people that are making claims as to, "Brand X" being the best, I don't hear anything as to why you feel that way.

Anyone can throw a opinion out there. Where's your reasoning and proof as to why you feel that way?

:dunno:


I'll reply (since i mentioned the PPQ).
It IS a little too soon I admit to say that the PPQ is a DURABLE as an H&K but it still shines with quality and the trigger is way better than ANY H&K I've ever shot.
I've owned a USP .45, USP Compact 9mm (and a P7).
I've shot a P30 (it was nice) and I'd still take the PPQ!

checkyoursix
07-02-2012, 14:09
For all the people that are making claims as to, "Brand X" being the best, I don't hear anything as to why you feel that way.

Anyone can throw a opinion out there. Where's your reasoning and proof as to why you feel that way?

Three comments:


1. There is no need to be confrontational, your reasoning is based on a test which has some validity but that can be interpreted diifferently: shall we compare the number of broken parts? Well it seems to me that Glocks don't fare that poorly based on the data you submit. On the contrary, the G17 broke a lot less. So take it easy.


2. Since you refer to pistol training, it's fair to mention that in more than one occasion Todd has pointed out that QC has been lowered considerably across the industry with no exceptions. So accept the fact that it's really difficult to submit a blanket statement like yours without paying a price in credibility.


3. I am glad you like your H&K as I am glad I sold my P30 for which I didn't care much at all. I will take two Gen 4 17 for roughly the same price any day of the week. A Walther P99 will make me twice as happy. There.

fnfalman
07-02-2012, 14:13
Someone who actually shoots their guns and carries them on a daily basis! They don't sit in a safe as safe queens like a lot of rabid 1911 fans do with their outdated pistols!

Speaking of outdated pistols, why are you still using a 30+ years old design?

countrygun
07-02-2012, 14:18
For all the people that are making claims as to, "Brand X" being the best, I don't hear anything as to why you feel that way.

Anyone can throw a opinion out there. Where's your reasoning and proof as to why you feel that way?

:dunno:


Kind of surprising that you don't think i made a good case for the Sigpro, considering you familiarity with Sigs and with the work of Bruce Gray. I will add one more thing in light of that. Bruce is cleared to carry almost anything he wants in his duties with the Sheriffs office. He carries a Sigpro.

Berto
07-02-2012, 14:39
The Steyr is a better pistol than the HK.
Same quality, better trigger, better ergos, lower bore axis, better sights, more flexible with ammo choices (not polygonal rifled) and similar durability/accuracy/ performance.

ftw13
07-02-2012, 15:56
I've owned the HK P2SK,USPC,P2K&P30 models in 9mm with LEM and DA/SA triggers and the USP FS/C in 45. I've also shot the HK45 FS&C. Guess how many HKs i own now? 0
They are overpriced,they aren't worth what they charge. Yes they're accurate and reliable(like any other quality modern combat gun) but they are unnecessarily more complicated than quite a few other pistols. They didn't have any edge in reliability compared to my other high quality handguns.

Tiro Fijo
07-02-2012, 16:34
I like both HK and Glock Gen 3 pistols.

I also own a FNP-45, and while it is a very accurate gun and I like the trigger better than the HK, I don't think the overall fit and finish is quite as refined as an HK.

I don't have much experience with M&P's, XD's, Walthers or Steyrs. I am sure they are pretty good guns in their own right too.

Just how durable are HK pistols?...

A chat wth an HK Armorer- MUST READ (http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/160710-chat-hk-armorer-must-read.html)

:cool:


:yawn:

There were some Glocks used as rentals at a Los Angeles public range with over...


ONE MILLION ROUNDS THROUGH THEM!!!


Trainer Chuck Taylor has a a Gen 2 G17 with somewhere between 300,000 and 400,000 rds. by now.

Spiffums
07-02-2012, 16:40
Your mom makes the best muffins second to my mom...this is a dumb thread with no useful info...soooo

I like tuhtles

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Since when do threads have to be useful? :rofl:

AKRover
07-02-2012, 17:01
I have owned a Walther P99, S&W M&P40 and currently own a Glock 20 and a Colt Delta Elite. I loved my Walther. It fit my hand well and was accurate enough for what I used it for. I sold the Walther to a friend so I could buy the M&P40. I couldn't justify owning two 40S&W pistols plus my 10mm. Sold the Walther and bought the M&P as a carry weapon but still had the Glock for venturing out in the woods where I chance encounters with things that want to eat me. When I lost my job I needed to thin out the gun safe to pay bills and the Glock got to stay due the 10mm's ability to do everything the 40S&W can do and then some. The Colt is a nonissue in this discussion because we're talking polymer guns.

I've never shot and HK but I have never heard bad about them. I will take the opinion of those who know them that they are the best. Of the polymer pistols I have owned and/or fired my Glock is the best due to its simplicity. Nothing complicated to fumble with during high stress times and I know as long as it's loaded the gun will go bang every time I pull the trigger. My P99 and M&P40 were no slouches in reliability either but the Glock seems to have a slight edge.

IMO, the most important thing about a gun is knowing it will work when I need it. And my Glock has never let me down.


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ronin.45
07-02-2012, 17:14
I started off my poly gun shooting with H&K. I had a USP9 stainless, a USP45 stainless, and a USC carbine. They were good guns, but not better than other top brands. They were way overpriced and parts/acc. were way overpriced. Not to mention that you usually have to order everything because few shops carry H&K stuff.

Fit and finish of most top polymer guns is pretty moot as they are all similar. Durability/reliability is also a toss-up as they are all supremely reliable. You can find studies and tests that go in the favor of whichever you prefer. Ergonomics and triggers are subjective, but you will find those that prefer each brand. Given that most categories are about equal, H&K loses because it's $200-300 more and acc. are harder to get and more expensive.

nathanours
07-02-2012, 17:21
I agree totally! I didn't start this thread to bash any particular product/manufacture. Based on my experiences, I've found HK to be superior to the other poly guns in many ways.

The people that think otherwise are deluding themselves. The evidence to my opinion speaks for itself.

Glock 17 Gen 4: 48,457 rounds 8 stoppages 0 malfunctions 1 parts breakages. Good gun.

That comes out to one stoppage every 6,057 rounds. Not too bad.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/5782


HK P30: 90,736 rounds 10 stoppages, 0 malfunctions, 5 parts breakages. That comes out to one stoppage every 9,073 rounds. Closer to being on par with Glock but certainly a great gun that went the distance!

http://pistol-training.com/archives/2645

HK 45: 50,000 rounds. 1 stoppages 1 (*) malfunctions (Read the article!!!) 1 parts breakage. Excellent Gun.

1 Stoppage in 50K rounds and one parts breakage! Damn good!

http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027

What I like about these tests is that they are documented and real world. Not some internet commando that probably doesn't even own anything other than a airsoft posting some BS on the web.

Are HK's perfect? Nope! But, they sure do go the distance and from what I see (Realistically, all things considered) HK is truly on top!

And yes. I'm proudly HK every time and for good reason. They make the best!

Glockers can have their Koolaid to wash their Glocks down since they are too hard to swallow without it! :rofl: :tongueout:

By the way, did I mention that I love my Glocks and put them second to HK? I guess that doesn't mean anything though. :upeyes:

Interesting articles, but only looking at the results of single pistols are not necessarily representative of the whole. It's kind of like saying car A lasted till 125k miles while car B made it to 150k, and then determining that car B is better. For it to be accurate, you'd have to take many more samples and compare them to the population.

When put in a Ransom rest my G19 shoots slightly tighter groups than my friend's full sized USP. Does this mean that all Glocks are more accurate than all HKs? No it doesn't, but if I were to use that data the same way your links do then the conclusion would be yes.

Disclaimer: I am in no way a "rabid fan" of either pistol, I prefer 1911s to them both. I do prefer Glocks to HKs simply because they fit my hand better.

carloglock19
07-02-2012, 18:29
HK, Glock and M&P in that order for me. HK kool aid is sweeter than Glock kool aid! :drunk:

ftw13
07-02-2012, 18:56
pretty funny they tought that many rounds through a usp as something special,there are tons of Glocks out there with many many more rounds through them chugging along just fine. interesting to note that i had a friend with a p200sk and a uspc where the plastic on the rear rail was coming off at around 1500rds

oldnoob
07-02-2012, 19:09
Steyr does make a great pistol and I wish they still sold them here. The one that I shot a long while back was simply amazing and the trigger was really nice! :cool:

The start to import them again. Check with your LGS. :wavey:

majette
07-02-2012, 19:28
no one has failed to mention some of the issues that have arisen with the polymer handguns. i had the 9mm steyrs and loved them but there were some issues with extractors and the loaded chamber indicators.

m&p 9mm's are exhibiting accuracy issues and the consensus of those with experience say the thumb safety models have better triggers than those without.

gen 4 glocks? recoil spring issues, erratic ejection. went shooting today with a friend who has a gen4 glock 23. first shot, stovepipe. erratic ejection. and still unsupported chambers in the .40 cal glocks. i told him when he went to buy one to stay away from the gen4 and away from .40 cal. he plans to shoot again next week and if the issues persist he will sell the g23 and get a gen3 19.

hk issues? problems consistently reported by end users like the other brands i have mentioned? hk's brought to market and have to be returned for a 'fix'? no, hk end users are not beta testers. the research and development to make it run right to start with is part of the reason you pay a premium for a hk. that is the value to me and i think it is worth the higher cost of acqusition compared to other polymer guns.

jakebrake
07-02-2012, 19:31
In my opinion HK is in a weird class of its own... No one else makes a plastic gun that high quality. The FNP 45 tactical just might be up there, but in my opinion, it is the standout in the FN lineup with all their other models falling behind Glock in quality.

So excluding the FNP 45 tactical, I agree with the OP. Glock makes the best plastics south of HK.

i don't know. the sigs are pretty nice for polymers. fnh good? probably not. but, still pretty solid shooters.

but, i'm kinda big on sa/da...which is funny, cause i don't currently own any.

PlasticGuy
07-02-2012, 19:52
I don't see what all the excitement is over polymer framed guns. I've owned most of them at one time or another. All have worked well. I have put 10,000+ rounds through a few of them. I have been issued one for several years. However, I have never found a polymer framed handgun that I feel stands above all the rest (and yes, I have owned a could HK's). I guess I'd pick my Five seveN, just because it is so unique.

bunk22
07-02-2012, 19:55
I agree totally! I didn't start this thread to bash any particular product/manufacture. Based on my experiences, I've found HK to be superior to the other poly guns in many ways.

The people that think otherwise are deluding themselves. The evidence to my opinion speaks for itself.

Glock 17 Gen 4: 48,457 rounds 8 stoppages 0 malfunctions 1 parts breakages. Good gun.

That comes out to one stoppage every 6,057 rounds. Not too bad.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/5782


HK P30: 90,736 rounds 10 stoppages, 0 malfunctions, 5 parts breakages. That comes out to one stoppage every 9,073 rounds. Closer to being on par with Glock but certainly a great gun that went the distance!

http://pistol-training.com/archives/2645

HK 45: 50,000 rounds. 1 stoppages 1 (*) malfunctions (Read the article!!!) 1 parts breakage. Excellent Gun.

1 Stoppage in 50K rounds and one parts breakage! Damn good!

http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027

What I like about these tests is that they are documented and real world. Not some internet commando that probably doesn't even own anything other than a airsoft posting some BS on the web.

Are HK's perfect? Nope! But, they sure do go the distance and from what I see (Realistically, all things considered) HK is truly on top!

And yes. I'm proudly HK every time and for good reason. They make the best!

Glockers can have their Koolaid to wash their Glocks down since they are too hard to swallow without it! :rofl: :tongueout:

By the way, did I mention that I love my Glocks and put them second to HK? I guess that doesn't mean anything though. :upeyes:

I have no bone in this fight as I could care less what's best or what's not, 2nd or 3rd best. I've shot HK's, nice guns, I own Glocks, like them as well. But posting three articles on specific HK endurance tests is not exactly statistically scientific as to HK's being any better than any other polymer gun lol

Ranger45
07-03-2012, 09:35
Have to agree with NEOH...HK is first, Glock is second. Own and love 'em both, but the HK is my primary EDC and sees the most holster time.

Armchair Commando
07-03-2012, 12:32
:rofl: You guys make me laugh when you say things like this. Just proves my point even more.

Glock 20:
Light
High Capacity
Polymer frame
Accurate
Extremely Reliable

Standard 1911:
Heavy
Low Capacity
All steel
Accurate
Somewhat reliable

Did i miss anything? Handguns are made to kill people and be carried, a handgun thats (SOLE PURPOSE) is to shoot at paper targets is useless in the real world UNLESS all you do is compete with it and have no real plans to use in for SD!

Armchair Commando
07-03-2012, 12:34
Some of us shoot and carry our HK's and 1911's. Just saying. I carry a p7 PSP, hk USP9c, and SA loaded champion or TRP from time to time.... I do carry a g19, but lately my LCP and CM9 have been my main carry rotation, followed by my M&P9c as the next most carried.

He used a broad brush to describe glock fans so i gave him the same courtesy, However on another note i personally know a few guys who own a slew of 1911s and they haven't shot any of them in a good 2-3 years! I shoot my carry guns on a weekly basis!

EMTCOP
07-03-2012, 13:14
If you really believe Glock is better then H&K (and we aren't talking price) then you might want to lay off the koolaid.


Alternatively, if you think that HK is better than Glock, well, there is always a seat open for you at Narcotics Anonymous. :)

s&wfan
07-03-2012, 14:17
Glock 20:
Light
High Capacity
Polymer frame
Accurate
Extremely Reliable

Standard 1911:
Heavy
Low Capacity
All steel
Accurate
Somewhat reliable

Did i miss anything? Handguns are made to kill people and be carried, a handgun thats (SOLE PURPOSE) is to shoot at paper targets is useless in the real world UNLESS all you do is compete with it and have no real plans to use in for SD!


Yeah man, the G20 has a reputation as a fierce combat pistol that the 1911 could only dream to one day match. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

brisk21
07-03-2012, 15:11
Yeah man, the G20 has a reputation as a fierce combat pistol that the 1911 could only dream to one day match. :rofl::rofl::rofl:


Name one relavent thing that the 1911 did, that the Glock couldn't have done if it were there.:tongueout:

s&wfan
07-03-2012, 15:26
Name one relavent thing that the 1911 did, that the Glock couldn't have done if it were there.:tongueout:


Um, been made to use against the Germans, for one?:tongueout:

G26S239
07-03-2012, 15:43
Name one relavent thing that the 1911 did, that the Glock couldn't have done if it were there.:tongueout:
Worked so damn well the the Browning short recoil system (which Glock used a variant of decades later) became the most used auto pistol locked breech system in the world. Without JM Browning to design that system Gaston would have had nothing to copy.

Furthermore Nylon was developed in 1935, 24 years after the 1911 went into service with the US military. As long as we are into coulda, woulda, shoulda why didn't Gaston design the first poly framed pistol before HK? He was using nylon for various things by the early 1960s but it never occurred to him to use it for a pistol frame until the designers at HK led the way.

s&wfan
07-03-2012, 15:58
Worked so damn well the the Browning short recoil system (which Glock used a variant of decades later) became the most used auto pistol locked breech system in the world. Without JM Browning to design that system Gaston would have had nothing to copy.

Furthermore Nylon was developed in 1935, 24 years after the 1911 went into service with the US military. As long as we are into coulda, woulda, shoulda why didn't Gaston design the first poly framed pistol before HK? He was using nylon for various things by the early 1960s but it never occurred to him to use it for a pistol frame until the designers at HK led the way.


I totally should have put that as my reply.

cowboy1964
07-03-2012, 16:12
I love Glocks for the simplicity and accessory availability but from a quality/ergonomic/function standpoint I think M&Ps beat them.

AK_Stick
07-03-2012, 16:13
If you really believe Glock is better then H&K (and we aren't talking price) then you might want to lay off the koolaid.

I dunno, I've got two H&K's a glock, and a FNH.


Between them, the H&K is the prettiest, and there isn't anything sexy or attractive about the Glocks look. But as far as best it'd be awful hard to pick one as better than the others.

Hokiegrass
07-03-2012, 16:53
I was a glock hater at one time. I never wanted to like them.... But I started shooting them and really started to appreciate their simplicity and utilitarian aspects. I have owned a P30 and a p2000sk .40, in LEM, but ended up selling. I didnt shoot the HK's any better, and experienced the same reliability. I wanted to commit to one platform and I chose Glock. The HKs I owned were awesome guns, but im not sure I noticed much, if any, difference in quality. For me, my favorite poly guns are Glock and Walther, IMO... I will say, if I ever own an HK again, it will be a HK 45c...

sourdough44
07-03-2012, 17:03
Mom's muffin aside, I like H&K too.

mabgrac
07-03-2012, 17:51
I have had pretty much every polymer made. I vote Caracal.

Sheepdog Scout
07-03-2012, 18:27
How and the heck did this thread turn into another Glock koolaid drinking contest. :rofl:

As for me. I prefer my Beretta PX4s and my plastic Walthers over HK.














Or Glock.:tongueout:

RMTactical
07-03-2012, 18:35
Glock is the king IMO.

There are a lot of other good polymer alternatives though.

fnfalman
07-03-2012, 18:37
Glock 20:
Did i miss anything? Handguns are made to kill people and be carried, a handgun thats (SOLE PURPOSE) is to shoot at paper targets is useless in the real world UNLESS all you do is compete with it and have no real plans to use in for SD!

So, John Wesley Hardin, how many gunfights have you been in? How many notches are on your gun stock?

Comedian
07-03-2012, 18:49
HK's are the best constructed and have the best quality control standards of any pistol manufacturer in existence. Too bad the same can't be said about HK triggers.

AK_Stick
07-03-2012, 19:07
HK's are the best constructed and have the best quality control standards of any pistol manufacturer in existence. Too bad the same can't be said about HK triggers.



:rofl:


While they're nice guns, thats far from true.

Berto
07-03-2012, 19:50
I totally should have put that as my reply.


Best reply in thread.:rofl::rofl:

cowboy1964
07-03-2012, 20:27
If Glocks actually ejected as all other guns do, and had a grippy slide as all other guns do, I would be much more of a kool-aid drinker of them. But those are basic, BASIC, things to not get right.

WarEagle32
07-03-2012, 20:43
I don't agree that the H&K's are the best. They cost the most that's for sure, but IMO they are not the best. If bullets were going both ways I would want no other pistol in my hand than a Glock! 2nd place I would want an FN!

oldnoob
07-03-2012, 21:14
Did i miss anything? Handguns are made to kill people and be carried, a handgun thats (SOLE PURPOSE) is to shoot at paper targets is useless in the real world UNLESS all you do is compete with it and have no real plans to use in for SD!

I'm glad we don't live in the same world.

8man
07-03-2012, 23:25
:rofl:


While they're nice guns, thats far from true.

Who is then? In your opinion?

JBJ16
07-03-2012, 23:50
What other objective way to prove it as king of polymers?

I guess a single government purchase order (c/o France), of 250,000 units in one plunk is hard to beat!!!!

Now that is an endorsement. :wow:

countrygun
07-03-2012, 23:52
What other objective way to prove it as king of polymers?

I guess a single government purchase order (c/o France), of 250,000 units in one plunk is hard to beat!!!!

Now that is an endorsement. :wow:


They apparently aren't expensive enough to be considered around here.:faint:

majette
07-04-2012, 07:11
HK's are the best constructed and have the best quality control standards of any pistol manufacturer in existence. Too bad the same can't be said about HK triggers.

the triggers get better with use. the match trigger is considerably better and the hybrid match lem trigger is the best polymer hammer fired trigger. (best striker fired trigger is the walther ppq)
i did a QuikTrain video on the lem here:

blactical quiktrain video on the lem
youtube http://youtu.be/b2Hm-kduH9w

CBennett
07-04-2012, 07:52
Steyr does make a great pistol and I wish they still sold them here. The one that I shot a long while back was simply amazing and the trigger was really nice! :cool:

Psst they DO still sell them as a matter of fact here are some they have been back in the USA for a bit now.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_428/Steyr/

CBennett
07-04-2012, 07:55
How and the heck did this thread turn into another Glock koolaid drinking contest. :rofl:

As for me. I prefer my Beretta PX4s and my plastic Walthers over HK.


Or Glock.:tongueout:

your asking on GLOCKtalk..how this turned into a glocks are the best and cant ever fail argument lol....:shocked:

45caldan
07-04-2012, 08:35
HK's are the best constructed and have the best quality control standards of any pistol manufacturer in existence. Too bad the same can't be said about HK triggers.

I can agree with this.
For me a good trigger is paramount.....that's why I have fallen for the PPQ!

checkyoursix
07-04-2012, 09:01
HK's are the best constructed and have the best quality control standards of any pistol manufacturer in existence. Too bad the same can't be said about HK triggers.

A very good point, and I would like to add sometimes other crucial details as well. How many shooters have complained about the loose slide release of the P30, which gets in the way so that the gun doesn't go to slide lock? Compare it to the PPQ to see how it should be done.

J_P
07-04-2012, 09:50
Well I feel that Glocks are the best "overall" hangun, when you look at all the important factors. I just love how simple they are. You could teach a monkey to be an armorer.

Glock=1st..... simple, reliable, affordable (mags, parts,)

HK= Cant stand the mag release, the trigger pull, $898 for a polymer gun :wow: (I'll take a Colt 1911 or a Sig) they are quailty guns but that is just my opinon....... better then Glock :rofl::rofl: I just dont see it. Im just going to say personal perference.

oily_oink
07-04-2012, 10:09
I'm personally convinced that HK makes the best polymer pistol period.

That's cool! But, when it comes to bad ammo, they're all the same to me...

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n81/oily_oink/Guns/HKUSP45Kaboom1.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n81/oily_oink/Guns/HKUSP45Kaboom2.jpg

brisk21
07-04-2012, 11:33
Glock=1st..... simple, reliable, affordable (mags, parts,)

HK= Cant stand the mag release, the trigger pull, $898 for a polymer gun :wow: (I'll take a Colt 1911 or a Sig) they are quailty guns but that is just my opinon....... better then Glock :rofl::rofl: I just dont see it. Im just going to say personal perference.


I sort of agree, but price actually isn't a huge factor for me. Not because I have alot of money, but because Im just one guy. Its not like I have to buy 100 HKs. I just have to buy one. The $1300 Springfield 1911 I bought 3 years ago was alot, but its not like Id have an extra $600 on my desk right now if I bought a $700 one instead.

G26S239
07-04-2012, 11:42
I sort of agree, but price actually isn't a huge factor for me. Not because I have alot of money, but because Im just one guy. Its not like I have to buy 100 HKs. I just have to buy one. The $1300 Springfield 1911 I bought 3 years ago was alot, but its not like Id have an extra $600 on my desk right now if I bought a $700 one instead.

I agree. It makes sense to stay in a budget but the argument you could get 5 Hi Points for that never made sense to me. Some of those type posts are just reverse snobbery.

Novocaine
07-04-2012, 12:00
P99 mag release doesn't pinch your middle finger and the gun doesn't have crap protruding all over. It has lower bore line (but unlike Glock doesn't point high), better trigger, is more accurate and has less machining marks.

The problem with these types of questions they are too general. HK makes bunch of models in a bunch of flavors. Is VP70 the best polymer pistol ever?

It's like asking what is better, Glock or 1911? There are so many 1911s out there you can cherry pick different attributes from different makes/models to create a fantasy gun that will be tightly fit for great accuracy, at the same time it will be loose for great reliability, built out of plastic for weight saving and out of steel to soak up the recoil, in Philippines to be on the budget and by the world class gunsmith for utmost in quality. And this game can be played both ways.

brisk21
07-04-2012, 12:45
I agree. It makes sense to stay in a budget but the argument you could get 5 Hi Points for that never made sense to me. Some of those type posts are just reverse snobbery.


True. That is another reason I prefer Glock. They split the difference between absolute quality (HK) and absolute cost (Hi-Point). Thus, they are pretty much equal in quality to HK, but cost almost half the price. I think all of us sane people can agree to leave the saturday night specials out of the debate.

NZshooter
07-04-2012, 12:55
If you really believe Glock is better then H&K (and we aren't talking price) then you might want to lay off the koolaid.
I love my HKs they're extremely well made guns, but I carry a Glock b/c I shoot it better than an HK

...and before anyone says it, yes my HKs are more accurate than my Glocks but there more to shooting well than just accuracy, or else we'd all be carrying sniper rifles

NZshooter
07-04-2012, 12:56
.....

SouthpawG26
07-04-2012, 13:12
Since the topic is all about the polymer, i'd guess that Strayer Voight Infinity makes the most accurate (and certainly most expensive) polymer framed guns.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/cervelop2k/b0461377.jpg

robbcayman
07-04-2012, 14:02
I have nothing against HK. However, I just don't see how they are superior pistols. Personally, I would buy a glock or springfield XD and save the extra cash. I don't mind paying for a nicer gun, but I would want something tangible in return and I just don't see that with HK.

AK_Stick
07-04-2012, 16:41
Who is then? In your opinion?


There are a slew of manufacturers who I would put head and shoulders above H&K's pistol QC and construction.

Korth, Mauser, Nighthawk, Ed Brown etc.


They're superb pistols. But H&K is certainly not "the finest". I would argue that none of the large production mass produced guns would ever fit that bill.

capttommie
07-04-2012, 16:51
I like the HK's, I have had a few, I enjoy shooting them. I am actually a better shot with the Hk for sure. The problem with the Hk with me is the grip tears up my skin just like the Gen 4's so I prefer not to carry one on a daily basis. Also another big point for me is I do not like safety's on my carry guns. I do believe the HK is a great gun, very well made, better than a glock? Probably so in some cases, some cases not. The maintains sure is a lot more work than I like on the Hk. But the maintains schedule is one of the great things about glock. You do nothing but clean the barrel.
As for the guys that says they have an ejecting problem, I have shot about every ammo they make out of most every glock they make for over ten years and not one malfunction. However I did break an ejector by dropping one in the pipe and releasing the slide. That was no where near Glocks fought. So if you have on that has an ejecting problem, you probably have a worn out ejector from doing the same thing. I have however had many ejection problems out of 1911's. Over all very close guns for the #1 and #2 spot. Personal preferences defiantly takes over on this one.

moeman
07-04-2012, 16:54
put all the poly's in a case and let me choose one it would be this:

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Beretta/Px4Storm.gif

Comedian
07-04-2012, 17:01
:rofl:


While they're nice guns, thats far from true.

I should have specified that HK has the best QC and manufacturing standards of all the major companies, like Sig, Glock, S&W etc.

Comedian
07-04-2012, 17:04
There are a slew of manufacturers who I would put head and shoulders above H&K's pistol QC and construction.

Korth, Mauser, Nighthawk, Ed Brown etc.


They're superb pistols. But H&K is certainly not "the finest". I would argue that none of the large production mass produced guns would ever fit that bill.

HK is the best of the big boys. Why even compare HK with high end semi custom 1911 makers like Ed Brown? Lets stick to comparing apples to apples.

jg420
07-04-2012, 17:12
I agree with the OP, if I were to own another polymer pistol it would be another HK hands down. FN would probably be my second choice, and Glock after that for sure. Seeing as I am totally addicted to 1911's and sold all my Hk's and Glocks to support this addiction it is a void statement lol.

adamg01
07-04-2012, 17:13
I like the part where she says that she isn't trying to start a brand argument with a title like "Second Best Polymer to Hk".

8man
07-04-2012, 17:29
HK is the best of the big boys. Why even compare HK with high end semi custom 1911 makers like Ed Brown? Lets stick to comparing apples to apples.

Agreed, I thought we were talking about production guns not boutique manufactures like Korth and Ed Brown...and since you brought up nighthawk, their QC and CS have been taking a hit lately.

gocubs6
07-04-2012, 17:55
I'll take the XDM. The Glocks just didn't work for me.

JTSmith
07-04-2012, 18:23
I vote P30, High Point, then PX4. We are voting for the ugliest polymers, right?

AK_Stick
07-04-2012, 19:08
I should have specified that HK has the best QC and manufacturing standards of all the major companies, like Sig, Glock, S&W etc.

HK is the best of the big boys. Why even compare HK with high end semi custom 1911 makers like Ed Brown? Lets stick to comparing apples to apples.


And what proof do you have of their QC and manufacturing standards being superior to anyone?


I own both Glocks and H&K's and Sig's and I aside from extra machining to be "pretty" I don't see anything that sets their QC ahead?

By any standard we can come up with, Glock, H&K, and Sig, are just about equal in all respects.

cowboy1964
07-04-2012, 23:01
Except my Sigs and HKs eject cases strong and consistently. They also have grippy slides and grip angles for actual human hands.

Metal Angel
07-05-2012, 01:52
I haven't seen one in person yet, but the CZ P-07 Duty looks pretty nice.

Novocaine
07-05-2012, 03:09
put all the poly's in a case and let me choose one it would be this:

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Beretta/Px4Storm.gif

Airsoft?:)

oily_oink
07-05-2012, 07:47
Airsoft?:)

Sure looks like it! :whistling:

yerscattergun
07-05-2012, 08:23
I sold my P30L and bought a PPQ. Still
have my G17 though, love the simplicity..

45caldan
07-05-2012, 09:01
put all the poly's in a case and let me choose one it would be this:

http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Beretta/Px4Storm.gif

Nice but I hate slide mounted safeties and DA/SA.
I do like the rotating bbl concept!

Merlin40
07-05-2012, 10:43
Was reading the posts.....I thought this was called Glock Talk? Many of the posts are almost bashing Glocks. Some of the OPs would be better served in a H&K forum?. I get really tired of all the negativity concerning Glocks. If you have a valid complaint, fine. Let's discuss it to help other Glock owners, and give useful advice & tips. If you are only here to attack Glock, well maybe you should find another forum. JM2 cents worth.

G26S239
07-05-2012, 10:47
Was reading the posts.....I thought this was called Glock Talk? Many of the posts are almost bashing Glocks. Some of the OPs would be better served in a H&K forum?. I get really tired of all the negativity concerning Glocks. If you have a valid complaint, fine. Let's discuss it to help other Glock owners, and give useful advice & tips. If you are only here to attack Glock, well maybe you should find another forum. JM2 cents worth.

This is not your forum. If you want a Glock forum that only allows cheerleaders to post you could start your own forum. Expressing preference for a brand other than Glock is not Glock bashing.

brisk21
07-05-2012, 10:59
Was reading the posts.....I thought this was called Glock Talk? Many of the posts are almost bashing Glocks. Some of the OPs would be better served in a H&K forum?. I get really tired of all the negativity concerning Glocks. If you have a valid complaint, fine. Let's discuss it to help other Glock owners, and give useful advice & tips. If you are only here to attack Glock, well maybe you should find another forum. JM2 cents worth.


Yeah, that is the culture here. Its ok to bash Glocks, just don't dare say anything negative about 1911s and you'll be ok.:rofl:

G26S239
07-05-2012, 11:04
Yeah, that is the culture here. Its ok to bash Glocks, just don't dare say anything negative about 1911s and you'll be ok.:rofl:

Who was banned for bashing 1911s?

Comedian
07-05-2012, 12:52
And what proof do you have of their QC and manufacturing standards being superior to anyone?


I own both Glocks and H&K's and Sig's and I aside from extra machining to be "pretty" I don't see anything that sets their QC ahead?

By any standard we can come up with, Glock, H&K, and Sig, are just about equal in all respects.

Admittedly i don't have proof that HK is better. But HK is supposed to have very stringent QC standards and has the reputation for being better than the others in that regard. There has been more noise on the various gun forums of cost saving measures by Sig and design changes by Glock that seem to have resulted in more functional problems with their pistols than in the past. In the past few years i have read plenty about issues with Gen 4 Glocks and to a lesser degree Sig's. I have not noticed many complaints about HK pistols having functional issues comparatively.

MrGlock21
07-05-2012, 13:23
..
So, who makes the second best polymer pistol to HK?


..

:dunno:

but here is another question:
Who has the second worst CS to HK Customer Service :rofl:

jb1911
07-05-2012, 13:38
HK IS the second best polymer.

fnfalman
07-05-2012, 13:39
:dunno:

but here is another question:
Who has the second worst CS to HK Customer Service :rofl:

SIG Arms.

s&wfan
07-05-2012, 13:43
There are a slew of manufacturers who I would put head and shoulders above H&K's pistol QC and construction.

Korth, Mauser, Nighthawk, Ed Brown etc.


They're superb pistols. But H&K is certainly not "the finest". I would argue that none of the large production mass produced guns would ever fit that bill.

A valid point, most certainly, but I kind of always assume we are talking about "among mass produced guns" when "the best" questions come up.

s&wfan
07-05-2012, 13:46
The reason it's harder to find HK parts than it is to find GLOCK parts is because HKs don't break as much, so there aren't as many spare parts around.


*ducks*

cowboy1964
07-05-2012, 13:46
:yawn:

There were some Glocks used as rentals at a Los Angeles public range with over...


ONE MILLION ROUNDS THROUGH THEM!!!


Trainer Chuck Taylor has a a Gen 2 G17 with somewhere between 300,000 and 400,000 rds. by now.

And I'm sure most parts in those have been replaced multiple times.

Two Guns
07-05-2012, 13:53
I would have to say that H&K is 2nd to Glock. I love H&K's but I feel the triggers are better on the Glocks.

fnfalman
07-05-2012, 14:09
There are a slew of manufacturers who I would put head and shoulders above H&K's pistol QC and construction.
Mauser,

Maybe Mauser rifles are still nice, but did you recall the Mauser plastic phantastics that came out a few years back?

MrGlock21
07-05-2012, 14:20
SIG Arms.

quick and correct answer :rofl:

countrygun
07-05-2012, 14:23
And I'm sure most parts in those have been replaced multiple times.


Sorta like a neighbor of mine said one day,

"Yep, that's there is the best axe I've ever had. I've rplaced the handle twice and the head once, and it just keeps on going"

NeverMore1701
07-05-2012, 14:47
Only plastic pistol that interests me at all is the Px4.

moeman
07-05-2012, 18:36
Airsoft?:)
oooppps!:embarassed:

I poached the wrong pic off of the net-- maybe the airsoft ones are good too:whistling:

Anyway, I own many pistols: HK, SIG, Beretta, Springfield, Walther...

At at each price point I think Beretta's value, fit, finish etc are better tha the rest.
I don't have any FN pistols...they are on my buy list.

that said, I like alloy frames better...

kat1950
07-05-2012, 20:19
My HK USP Compact 40 is a nice bulky heavy gun compared to my Glock 23, also has a shorter sight radius,don't get me wrong the HK is a nice gun, have owned a HK 45 Tactical, Hk 40 Tactical, HK USP 40 and 9, nice guns but not worth the extra money, have over 100,000 rounds on my Glock 23 and it is still going strong. In today's world the top tier manufacturers top of line polymer pistols are all good. Twenty years ago it might have been number 1, not any longer.

JuneyBooney
07-05-2012, 20:23
M&P, Glock or maybe FNH for #2

I would agree with the op and also you post. :cool:

MrGlock21
07-05-2012, 20:39
I would have to say that H&K is 2nd to Glock. I love H&K's but I feel the triggers are better on the Glocks.

Here are the smilies for the trigger department

1911 :number1:
Glock :pepper:
HK :freak:

Sheepdog Scout
07-05-2012, 22:25
Only plastic pistol that interests me at all is the Px4.

I didn't think I'd buy another plastic pistol. Until I bought a PX4. It's not well known, but it's a good gun.:supergrin:

moeman
07-05-2012, 22:35
HK<<< STAR and yes I have both...

I totally forgot about one of the gun orphans that kicked everyone's ass:

http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/_thumbs/Images/handguns/spain/hg112/1287738543.jpg

Star Ultrastar... Yes Star, the long dead company made a Sig style (slide w/in the frame) polymer pistol in 3.5" barrel, single stack 9mm and 40. Basically, the perfect ccw. Mine was my primary gun for years since it was 100% everywhere and on every ammo-- I have pistols that have cost many mulitiples of the cost that are not as good.

Really...

see one at a good price buy it.

JuneyBooney
07-05-2012, 22:57
Only plastic pistol that interests me at all is the Px4.

I want a ceramic Glock. :whistling:

Tiro Fijo
07-06-2012, 01:14
And I'm sure most parts in those have been replaced multiple times.


Chuck Taylor had only replaced the front sight (OEM plastic worn to a nub from tens of thousands of holster presentations) and some mag springs last I knew and I think the RSA. He solved the mag problem by downloading one round. Either way, normal maintenance. Incredible.

Osborne
07-06-2012, 07:44
I want a ceramic Glock. :whistling:

Too bad it costs more then you make in a month. :whistling:

TactiCool
07-06-2012, 17:31
The reason it's harder to find HK parts than it is to find GLOCK parts is because HKs don't break as much, so there aren't as many spare parts around.


*ducks*

:rofl:

My shooting instructor works as a high-risk PSD operator in Iraq and carries h&K firearms day in and day out as his duty weapons. He talks of nothing but how failure prone and problematic those guns are. He has carried the mk23 socom as well as the usp and has had catastrophic failures with both guns. And he especially loathes his 416.

And guess what he carries when he's in CONUS? Yep, you guessed it, GLOCK.:supergrin:

Also, I do, of course, follow good examples and own a glock myself.

01coltcolt
07-06-2012, 18:44
I carry a G19, why cause I got more money for the HK USP.........
It's not like the OP suggested Jensen Vs Bryco Vs Hi-point Vs POSArms

Comedian
07-06-2012, 22:30
:rofl:

My shooting instructor works as a high-risk PSD operator in Iraq and carries h&K firearms day in and day out as his duty weapons. He talks of nothing but how failure prone and problematic those guns are. He has carried the mk23 socom as well as the usp and has had catastrophic failures with both guns. And he especially loathes his 416.

And guess what he carries when he's in CONUS? Yep, you guessed it, GLOCK.:supergrin:

Also, I do, of course, follow good examples and own a glock myself.

So why is he using HK's if they aren't working for him?

01coltcolt
07-07-2012, 06:41
The reason it's harder to find HK parts than it is to find GLOCK parts is because HKs don't break as much, so there aren't as many spare parts around.


*ducks*
Not hard if you look.

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-USP-45-ACP-Parts-c200.htm
http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-P30-Parts-c205.htm

BrazosCoTX
07-07-2012, 08:55
Agree with OP, even though having owned both an HK (USP45c) and several Glocks, I thought the HK to be a little top-heavy. Liked the HK's sights, and overall lines of the slide -- just a very pretty gun. I like a hammer, too, over a striker-fired operation.

Gotta like the Glock's Tennifer finish, though, and for a pure combat handgun, the Glock's lack of thumb safety to operate is a plus.

Guess what I'd really like is a 1911 with a Tennifer finish. Not holding my breath.

TactiCool
07-07-2012, 10:49
So why is he using HK's if they aren't working for him?

When you work for a private security company, you often do not have a choice about what gear you are issued. You just have to make do with it.

Comedian
07-07-2012, 12:10
When you work for a private security company, you often do not have a choice about what gear you are issued. You just have to make do with it.

Even after that gear fails repeatedly? Its crazy that he can't choose the gear that works for him, so he can have a better chance of completing successfully the missions that are assigned to him.

.45Super-Man
07-07-2012, 12:40
This is akin to asking which disposable lighter is of the "highest quality". Poly guns are designed for cheapness of manufacture, first and foremost. Does it really matter when you're talking about plastic and stamped metal?:dunno:

TactiCool
07-07-2012, 12:41
Even after that gear fails repeatedly? Its crazy that he can't choose the gear that works for him, so he can have a better chance of completing successfully the missions that are assigned to him.

No, they are not paid to tell their employers that they can not do their jobs. Believe me, nobody gets brownie points for argueing with managers and bean-counters over company policies that will not, and can not, be changed. Rather, that kind of behavior will cause you to be loathed by your superiors and peers alike, and will most likely get you sent home.

Most of the gear they get is purchased on a contractual basis, and the guy who has to use it does not have a say in the matter. This is true for most private security companies. Some are even less fortunate in that they have to requesition gear at whatever AO they are currently working in.

01deuce
07-07-2012, 14:34
:dunno:

but here is another question:
Who has the second worst CS to HK Customer Service :rofl:

The funny part is how uninformed you are thinking that!

Kimura
07-07-2012, 16:52
When you work for a private security company, you often do not have a choice about what gear you are issued. You just have to make do with it.

Yes, but based on what you wrote, I'm assuming that this isn't his first deployment for this company, correct? If not, and he feels the HKs are putting his life in jeopardy, why not change companies or do something else until he can find alternative employment overseas?

GlockN
07-07-2012, 17:46
I like both HK and Glock Gen 3 pistols.

I also own a FNP-45, and while it is a very accurate gun and I like the trigger better than the HK, I don't think the overall fit and finish is quite as refined as an HK.

I don't have much experience with M&P's, XD's, Walthers or Steyrs. I am sure they are pretty good guns in their own right too.

Just how durable are HK pistols?...

A chat wth an HK Armorer- MUST READ (http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/160710-chat-hk-armorer-must-read.html)

:cool:


Cool story bra.

TactiCool
07-07-2012, 19:12
Yes, but based on what you wrote, I'm assuming that this isn't his first deployment for this company, correct? If not, and he feels the HKs are putting his life in jeopardy, why not change companies or do something else until he can find alternative employment overseas?

No, you do not change companies because you happen to not like the gear that you are issued. The PSD world is far more complicated than that, as is getting, and keeping, a job.

H&K 4 LIFE
07-07-2012, 20:24
My shooting instructor works as a high-risk PSD operator in Iraq and carries h&K firearms day in and day out as his duty weapons. He talks of nothing but how failure prone and problematic those guns are. He has carried the mk23 socom as well as the usp and has had catastrophic failures with both guns. And he especially loathes his 416.


Bear in mind, I'm not disbelieving that an HK pistol can fail. All mechanical devices have that potential...

However, what sort of "failures" were encountered? What exactly constituted as a "catastrophic failure"? :dunno:

Teecher45
07-07-2012, 21:38
Don't like a safety on a defensive handgun.
Don't like a high bore axis pistol.
Very few companies make bad handguns nowadays.

countrygun
07-07-2012, 21:52
Don't like a safety on a defensive handgun.
Don't like a high bore axis pistol.
Very few companies make bad handguns nowadays.


You only carry revolvers? :tongueout:after all Glocks have that thing on the trigger, even a hammer dropper/decocker is a form of "safely" lowering the hammer.

Of course some DAO autos qualify, as long as they don't have a "drop" safety.

Just kidding you a bit.

Teecher45
07-07-2012, 21:58
You only carry revolvers? :tongueout:
Well, I do like revolvers, a lot. Carry them in the woods.
Glock 27 everywhere else.

countrygun
07-07-2012, 22:02
Well, I do like revolvers, a lot. Carry them in the woods.
Glock 27 everywhere else.


A Glock has a safety, that funny thing on the trigger, I think it's what they call "passive" :supergrin:

Kimura
07-08-2012, 00:05
No, you do not change companies because you happen to not like the gear that you are issued. The PSD world is far more complicated than that, as is getting, and keeping, a job.

No kidding, but it beats the hell out of dying. And you didn't say he didn't like it. You said it was failing on him. Which is it?

MrGlock21
07-08-2012, 00:34
The funny part is how uninformed you are thinking that!

Yeahh, isn't that the funniest part?

Have a good laugh with me, and the gentlemen in Ashburn and Oberndorf may even chime in and have some fun time too. :rofl::wavey:

USSOCOM
07-08-2012, 00:44
Glock has the best bang for the buck IMHO.

Teecher45
07-08-2012, 09:07
A Glock has a safety, that funny thing on the trigger, I think it's what they call "passive" :supergrin:
Yeah, the revolvers that I carry have a safety too.
I've never understood this mentality of "mine is better than yours". Who cares? I've owned a HK45c. It was a fine gun, just didn't like the MANUAL safety on a defensive firearm. I've gotten stuck on Glocks due to being a firearms instructor for the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Between the KSP and P&P I have seen a lot of rounds go downrange with not 1 failure. It has sold me and now it is what I carry. Could an HK, M&P, or (insert favorite pistol here) do the exact same thing? Yeah, probably. Do I care what brand you think is best? Sure, I like learning. Are you gonna change my mind? Probably not. Most of the time I post questions on GT just to get other peoples opinions, not to try and get someone to change my mind. I'm just wondering if someone has thought of something I haven't when I post a ?
Now, get off of the computer and go shoot your favorite weapon.

PPinesRon
07-08-2012, 12:17
Beretta's PX4 Storm could be on the "list."

G26S239
07-08-2012, 12:35
Beretta's PX4 Storm could be on the "list."
I like the one I tried. Never bought one but it was a nice shooter.

Arc Angel
07-08-2012, 13:43
Some might not agree but I'm personally convinced that HK makes the best polymer pistol period. .......

So, who makes the second best polymer pistol to HK? I still say Glock is king second to HK. How about you? If you feel like typing, include why you feel the way you do.

One thing's for sure: I don't feel the same way you do. I'm not a Kool-Aid drinker. I'm not a Glockaholic. I've made many posts on this forum criticizing Glocks pistols as well as how they are serviced and sold. Glock is the only gun manufacturer I've ever known that deliberately sells defective merchandise; and then expects customers to, 'like it or lump it'. How Glock, GmbH continues to get away with this I do not know?

(Perhaps America has, indeed, become - or been encouraged to become - a nation of passive, dependent, and loose-living wimps?)

Quite frankly, if I wanted an H&K pistol I'd own two H&K pistols; but, I don't. H&K has even worse civilian customer service than Glock does. H&K has less parts availability; and is harder to, 'fix in your garage' while using only basic everyday hand tools. Since when are rubber O-rings high tech? As expensive as they are - and H&K pistols are waaay overpriced - H&K's still go kaBoom! the same way Glocks do. (That problem seems to be mitigating itself of late, though; doesn't it! Now, instead of just going kaBoom! Glocks simply don't work; and THAT has got to be an improvement.)

Finally, as I have discovered: With a handful of customized parts and a little fundamental gunsmithing skill, a basic store-bought Glock pistol (I call them, 'starter kits'.) can be turned into your, 'best polymer pistol in the world'.

vettely
07-08-2012, 15:06
Smith M&P....

When my dept allowed us the option of going to .45 I naturally thought I would just switch from my G23 as I've been carrying Glocks since 93. I tried to like the .45 Glocks but they all felt like holding a piece of 2x4 wood. Then I handled a M&P in .45, best feeling grip on a .45 that's not a 1911. Been carrying the M&P for a few years now and I still love it as much as when I first saw one. I still have all my Glocks.

countrygun
07-08-2012, 15:20
Yeah, the revolvers that I carry have a safety too.
I've never understood this mentality of "mine is better than yours". Who cares? I've owned a HK45c. It was a fine gun, just didn't like the MANUAL safety on a defensive firearm. I've gotten stuck on Glocks due to being a firearms instructor for the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Between the KSP and P&P I have seen a lot of rounds go downrange with not 1 failure. It has sold me and now it is what I carry. Could an HK, M&P, or (insert favorite pistol here) do the exact same thing? Yeah, probably. Do I care what brand you think is best? Sure, I like learning. Are you gonna change my mind? Probably not. Most of the time I post questions on GT just to get other peoples opinions, not to try and get someone to change my mind. I'm just wondering if someone has thought of something I haven't when I post a ?
Now, get off of the computer and go shoot your favorite weapon.


I don't have a "my favorite" or even a particular OS for handguns. I have about every type of system I can think of except a DAO semi. (always thought that was a answer looking for a question)

I like 'em all.

I just find that hitting the safety on a 1911 after all these years to be as natural as thumb cocking a single action revolver.

Teecher45
07-08-2012, 16:58
I don't have a "my favorite" or even a particular OS for handguns. I have about every type of system I can think of except a DAO semi. (always thought that was a answer looking for a question)

I like 'em all.

I just find that hitting the safety on a 1911 after all these years to be as natural as thumb cocking a single action revolver.
Cool, if I had trained with a 1911 for the last 20 years I would probably feel the same way. And if there is a bump in the night I would probably grab the AK, AR, or 870. But, the wife on the other hand... I feel more confident with her having the 21 with a TLR1. Nothing to forget about when the adrenaline starts pumping.

glockmaniac
07-08-2012, 17:00
well, I've owned a couple HK's and a few Glocks.I still have my Glock but regretfully let my HK's go due to some financial issues.The HK no doubt is a little pricey, but no more pricey then what you get for a simple plain glock.When you hold and inspect the HK it definately screams quality.It feels like better quality then a glock, but I've never had any problems with reliablity out of either brands.What I also liked about hk was some of the bells and whistles options they offer.I really do like having a hammer,safety and decocker,metal sights etc. I had compact versions of the hk's which was the only sucky thing about them, it carried and still felt like a fullsize gun.

blacksheep40
07-08-2012, 18:10
I just traded my hk uspc .40 for a g27. I loved that gun, but that was what kept it from fulfilling its duty as a carry gun. I traded for a glock because of its reputation, and because its a tool. not a mantle piece line my hk. looking forward to carrying and shooting the piss out of this thing

countrygun
07-08-2012, 18:37
Cool, if I had trained with a 1911 for the last 20 years I would probably feel the same way. And if there is a bump in the night I would probably grab the AK, AR, or 870. But, the wife on the other hand... I feel more confident with her having the 21 with a TLR1. Nothing to forget about when the adrenaline starts pumping.


We have the same issue with the wives. Mine chose the S&W686 4" as a nighttime handgun and a Winchester 1200 extension mag. with the chamber empty all she has to do is pump and keep her finger off the trigger until "boomtime".

But on the topic of the thread i still find the Sigpro 2022 to be as much as I can reasonably expect out of a pistol. It's price is a bonus, although I am currently working with the XDM in .45 that the Mrs. bought me. As soon as I get the night sights on it, the sig will take second place in the nightstand job. A pity that no one has suggested the XDM and only a couple of us the Sigpro. I guess 100% reliability and outstanding accuracy must not be as important as the "elan" of a big price tag.

Oh well, it lets me buy more:supergrin:

TactiCool
07-09-2012, 15:53
No kidding, but it beats the hell out of dying. And you didn't say he didn't like it. You said it was failing on him. Which is it?

This discussion is getting further, and further off topic. I will not, and can not, answer that question because I know very little about HK firearms. All I know is that failures were occurring. I will also refuse to continue to put words in my instructor's mouth.

If you want to know the answers to your questions, he will be returning from overseas early in August. He lives near my location and will be accepting students then.

You can PM me if you have a serious interest in such instruction.

sfguard
07-09-2012, 19:30
This thread needs some HK porn for the lady heres mine

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb209/sfguard/ar15sbr039.jpg

http://http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb209/sfguard/ar15sbr085.jpg

http://http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb209/sfguard/SU1HMDAxNDIuanBn.jpg

G26S239
07-09-2012, 20:01
This thread needs some HK porn for the lady heres mine

I'm in. :wavey: Starting at 9:00 going clockwise, USPc45, USPf 45, USPc 40, P2000sk 40, USPf 9 and P7PSP.

http://i45.tinypic.com/10enaqc.jpg

sfguard
07-09-2012, 20:36
I'm in. :wavey: Starting at 9:00 going clockwise, USPc45, USPf 45, USPc 40, P2000sk 40, USPf 9 and P7PSP.



I forgot to introduce mine how rude :embarassed:.

Top left working across then down.
P2000 9mm, P2000sk 9mm, USP tactical 45acp, USP Elite 9mm, P7 9mm, HK45, USPC 45acp, P30 9mm, VP70 9mm, Hk94, and at last but not least the HK94SBR

:cool:

Nice collection BTW G26

G26S239
07-09-2012, 20:49
I forgot to introduce mine how rude :embarassed:.

Top left working across then down.
P2000 9mm, P2000sk 9mm, USP tactical 45acp, USP Elite 9mm, P7 9mm, HK45, USPC 45acp, P30 9mm, VP70 9mm, Hk94, and at last but not least the HK94SBR

:cool:

Nice collection BTW G26

You too. :wavey:

PimpStick
07-09-2012, 20:55
You are right. Some might not agree.

I agree 100%

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a44/GLOCK38CCW/IMG_0107.jpg