Store owner arrested for pulling gun on customer, threatening to shoot him [Archive] - Glock Talk

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TBO
07-03-2012, 08:12
http://www.freep.com/article/20120702/NEWS03/120702031/Store-owner-arrested-for-pulling-gun-on-customer-threatening-to-shoot-him

smokin762
07-03-2012, 08:45
Every coin has two sides.

DScottHewitt
07-03-2012, 09:54
http://www.freep.com/article/20120702/NEWS03/120702031/Store-owner-arrested-for-pulling-gun-on-customer-threatening-to-shoot-him

The customer said Samona ordered him out, but he refused to leave


That's called "trespassing"

wrenrj1
07-03-2012, 10:00
That's called "trespassing"

Yes, but hardly the level where a weapon needs to be deployed. That just escalates the situation. Call the PD.

dosei
07-03-2012, 10:07
Do stupid things...win stupid prizes.

When one decides to carry a gun, they often wonder where to put it. A good place to start is by first throwing away arrogance and ignorance. Once you stop carrying those around, it's easier to find a place for the gun.

DScottHewitt
07-03-2012, 10:10
Yes, but hardly the level where a weapon needs to be deployed. That just escalates the situation. Call the PD.

Or, the customer escalated the situation. No way of knowing from the outside how heated the "conversation" got before the store owner felt the need to draw. The customer might have been cool, calm, and collected. Or he might have been on the verge of taking physical action against the store owner.

And, one punch can be fatal.......

DScottHewitt
07-03-2012, 10:10
Do stupid things...win stupid prizes.

When one decides to carry a gun, they often wonder where to put it. A good place to start is by first throwing away arrogance and ignorance. Once you stop carrying those around, it's easier to find a place for the gun.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2558/psgwsp.jpg
By dscotthewitt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dscotthewitt) at 2012-06-28


+87 on the "making room" part.

HandyMan Hugh
07-03-2012, 10:17
Mr. Sanoma is not only rude, but he has way too short a fuse. He should not be in contact with the public and he should not have access to firearms. Fortunately, the law might well correct both problems soon. That's just my .50 worth.

DScottHewitt
07-03-2012, 10:25
Mr. Sanoma is not only rude, but he has way too short a fuse. He should not be in contact with the public and he should not have access to firearms. Fortunately, the law mithe well correct both problems soon. That's just my .50 worth.

Except, the only side of the story we can get from the outside is coming from the other person in the argument.......

GlockFanBoy4Life
07-03-2012, 11:50
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2558/psgwsp.jpg
By dscotthewitt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dscotthewitt) at 2012-06-28


+87 on the "making room" part.

lmfao! :rofl:

wrenrj1
07-03-2012, 18:45
Or, the customer escalated the situation. No way of knowing from the outside how heated the "conversation" got before the store owner felt the need to draw. The customer might have been cool, calm, and collected. Or he might have been on the verge of taking physical action against the store owner.

And, one punch can be fatal.......

I'll give you that, taking the article at face value, but the guy better have a good case that his life was threatened. Guess that'll come out in court.

Wren

lawson12
07-03-2012, 19:24
Whatever happened to the customer always being right?:supergrin:

ChuteTheMall
07-03-2012, 19:35
Open cellphone would have prevented this.

magiaaron
07-03-2012, 21:00
That's pretty interesting. I wonder what the full story is. As was said, if you take the article at face value, that store owner is probably in some deep manure. It does make me wonder, however, exactly what transpired.

The big thing to note is how important the concept of "complainant = victim" is. If the owner felt his life was threatened enough to pull a firearm, he should have called the police. Had he, I imagine that things could have turned out differently.

Misty02
07-04-2012, 06:38
That's called "trespassing"

Yeap. It would have gone quite differently if the store owner had been the one to call the police and have the customer arrested for trespassing since he acknowledges he was told to leave and refused to do so.

It appears people that carry are more in tune with trespassing laws than the general population. Most people we know, who are not into firearms, donít seem to understand that one very well and believe they can stand there and refuse to leave until their problem is resolved.

We had that argument some time ago with a stubborn friend (birds of a feather and all that) who after a long dragged discussion agreed it would be trespassing for us because we were armed but not for him and no one but a police officer could force him to vacate an establishment open to the public. We kept trying to explain none of us could stay after being told to leave, the difference in charges could be trespass for him and possibly armed trespass for us, but the trespass part applied equally.

Next time we saw him I had printed material that demonstrated otherwise and he finally conceded with ďI canít believe I can be arrested because someone doesnít resolve a problem theyíre obligated to fix!Ē Iím stubborn too and wasnít about to let it go so easily, plus, we didnít want our friend arrested one day because he didnít know when to give up, count his loses and address his problem another day or over the phone with supervisors.


.

jph02
07-04-2012, 07:32
Open cellphone would have prevented this.
Actually, that was the whole problem! The customer couldn't figure out how to open his cellphone battery compartment.

...If the owner felt his life was threatened enough to pull a firearm, he should have called the police. Had he, I imagine that things could have turned out differently.
Bingo! At the very least, better to have trespass charges filed against a customer than to be charged with pulling a gun on your customers. :shakehead:

steveksux
07-04-2012, 08:09
In this case, it seems like a right exercised is a right that's about to be lost...

Randy

Carrys
07-04-2012, 10:29
IMO.............as the number of folks who have CCP's grows, the larger the number of knotheads will become. The folks who got their permits sooner rather than later IMO... are those who know how to use a gun......and when not to.

Those who are recent newcomers to the game may be among those not quite familiar with what to do with or how to use a gun. In other words.............knotheads.

Misty02
07-04-2012, 10:39
Some of us newcomers have gone out of our way to learn as quickly as humanly possible. I have a feeling you are likely to find knotheads in either sector. I donít see the correlation between common sense and being a long term gun owner.

.

TDC20
07-04-2012, 10:42
I have to wonder what actually transpired, too. PO'd customer could have made up a story to get even with the rude store owner. There are 3 sides to the story. Places like this usually have security video. If it exists, that will probably be the deciding factor.

Contrary to popular belief, the customer isn't always right. If he is in this case, the store owner is in deep doo-doo.

uptomyneck
07-04-2012, 10:59
I had a Palestinian convience store owner pull a pistol on me once while I was trying to remove our equipment that he refused to pay for. I stepped outside and called the local 5-0. They showed up and of course the Sandn&$$@# had stashed the gun and said he didn't do nuffin. I then was able to take my equipment and leave.

I didn't have a CHL back then.

Bruce M
07-04-2012, 11:40
In this case, it seems like a right exercised is a right that's about to be lost...

Randy


Excellently said, sir :supergrin:

Drain You
07-04-2012, 11:55
Boy, I am thankful for this reminder. A reminder that not all conceal carriers are good guys, so I shouldn't feel at all put out when I'm disarmed on the side of the road for the entire world to see just because I was slightly speeding or driving in an area where black people mostly live.


Yes, so so thankful for these constant reminders in Carry Issues.

RussP
07-04-2012, 12:16
Boy, I am thankful for this reminder. A reminder that not all conceal carriers are good guys, so I shouldn't feel at all put out when I'm disarmed on the side of the road for the entire world to see just because I was slightly speeding or driving in an area where black people mostly live.


Yes, so so thankful for these constant reminders in Carry Issues.Good!! Thank you for your support!!

JuneyBooney
07-04-2012, 13:12
That's called "trespassing"

I wonder why the guy wanted the owner to open the battery up? That is rather bizarre.

oldman11
07-04-2012, 13:46
I wonder why the guy wanted the owner to open the battery up? That is rather bizarre.
No it's not. I open the battery door to every cell I've ever owned. The reason is to insert a small circuit device that helps reception (a small amount anyway).

TBO
07-04-2012, 15:12
No it's not. I open the battery door to every cell I've ever owned. The reason is to insert a small circuit device that helps reception (a small amount anyway).

Can you provide a link to such a device?
Thanks in advance.

Sent from my mind using Tapatalk 2

Bruce M
07-04-2012, 15:30
Can you provide a link to such a device?
Thanks in advance.

Sent from my mind using Tapatalk 2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Cell-Phone-Booster-Antenna-Signal-Boosters-Gen-X-Plus-/280379531336?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item4147ec2048

Drain You
07-04-2012, 16:27
Good!! Thank you for your support!!


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5gBP_mUZyZE/TyCbLHIn0KI/AAAAAAAAANU/PJkF69zdHHQ/s1600/Bartles+and+James+Parrot.jpg


:tongueout:

oldman11
07-04-2012, 17:21
Can you provide a link to such a device?
Thanks in advance.

Sent from my mind using Tapatalk 2
http://www.ehow.com/how_5174019_install-cell-phone-antenna-booster.html

You open cell take out battery and slip CC underneath battery, put battery back in and button up phone. It isn't the greatest booster in the world, but it helps and is the easiest to carry around and use. Also isn't expensive at all.

FireForged
07-04-2012, 20:28
Yes, but hardly the level where a weapon needs to be deployed. That just escalates the situation. Call the PD.

this...

ca survivor
07-05-2012, 16:48
I love this place, most of us carry guns, and when someone uses it, every body is against the gun owner, If I tell you to leave MY store, you HAVE to leave, on your own or............

TBO
07-05-2012, 21:24
I love this place, most of us carry guns, and when someone uses it, every body is against the gun owner, If I tell you to leave MY store, you HAVE to leave, on your own or............

Or what?

Sent from my mind using Tapatalk 2

Misty02
07-06-2012, 05:50
Or what?

Sent from my mind using Tapatalk 2

Or theyíll call the police and have the individual charged with trespass? Perhaps even legally ban them from ever coming back again?

.

Stevekozak
07-06-2012, 06:17
Boy, I am thankful for this reminder. A reminder that not all conceal carriers are good guys, so I shouldn't feel at all put out when I'm disarmed on the side of the road for the entire world to see just because I was slightly speeding or driving in an area where black people mostly live.


Yes, so so thankful for these constant reminders in Carry Issues.
:rofl:

RussP
07-06-2012, 07:05
Boy, I am thankful for this reminder. A reminder that not all conceal carriers are good guys, so I shouldn't feel at all put out when I'm disarmed on the side of the road for the entire world to see just because I was slightly speeding or driving in an area where black people mostly live.


Yes, so so thankful for these constant reminders in Carry Issues.I love this place, most of us carry guns, and when someone uses it, every body is against the gun owner, If I tell you to leave MY store, you HAVE to leave, on your own or............We shut down the "Kool Aid" stand here a long time ago. We offer a variety of choices for everyone's enjoyment. :cool:

Mister_Beefy
07-06-2012, 07:12
In this case, it seems like a right exercised is a right that's about to be lost...

Randy


exactly right.

the store owner did not stay within the tiny box of "appropriateness" drawn in the sand around his rights, and is therefore deemed in the wrong by those who have blindly accepted their programming to obey the government.

if the store owner had been a LEO, this wouldn't even have made the news.

Bruce M
07-06-2012, 09:11
I love this place, most of us carry guns, and when someone uses it, every body is against the gun owner, ............

A quick glance at the news item mentioned suggested that the use of the gun was well within the range of criminal as opposed to justified. My read here is not that everyone is against someone when they use a gun but rather when they use a gun when it should not be used because that seems to be the sort of thing that some use against all gun owners to paint us all in a bad light and to attempt to curtail gun rights.

jph02
07-06-2012, 12:43
I love this place, most of us carry guns, and when someone uses it, every body is against the gun owner, If I tell you to leave MY store, you HAVE to leave, on your own or............

A quick glance at the news item mentioned suggested that the use of the gun was well within the range of criminal as opposed to justified. My read here is not that everyone is against someone when they use a gun but rather when they use a gun when it should not be used because that seems to be the sort of thing that some use against all gun owners to paint us all in a bad light and to attempt to curtail gun rights.
This. When you act like a ******, you deserve the consequences. Store owner was a total db.

glockurai
07-06-2012, 16:45
The store owner could have physically removed the individual who was trespassing. Instead he chose to pull out a gun to gain leverage.
Of course the most reasonable thing to do was to call the police, but that wouldn't sit well with some here.
776.031 Use of force in defense of others.—A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

wrenrj1
07-06-2012, 18:50
Take a look at this, from Drudge. At least our elected officials aren't doing it (yet)...Watch the video, fast forward a bit to get to the good stuff towards the end.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/jordanian-mp-pulls-a-gun-on-his-critic-during-live-tv-debate/

Misty02
07-06-2012, 19:51
The store owner could have physically removed the individual who was trespassing. Instead he chose to pull out a gun to gain leverage.
Of course the most reasonable thing to do was to call the police, but that wouldn't sit well with some here.
776.031 Use of force in defense of others.óA person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the otherís trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

Physically remove, as in laying hands on him? I wouldnít recommend that one either, unless the person laid hands on you first and you were just defending yourself. Merely putting a hand on someone (not even pushing or hitting) now days can have you charged with assault.

Most people aren't worth the complicated mess they'll leave you standing on, it's better to just make the call if at all possible.

.

jph02
07-07-2012, 09:59
...776.031 Use of force in defense of others...
The incident happened in Michigan. Since you're in Florida, I assume this is FL law, which has no bearing under the circumstances.

Carrys
07-07-2012, 11:07
Some of us newcomers have gone out of our way to learn as quickly as humanly possible. I have a feeling you are likely to find knotheads in either sector. I donít see the correlation between common sense and being a long term gun owner.

.


I understand your comments and salute you learning "as quickly as humanly possible"....but knotheads abound in our society like it or not believe it or not.

IMO, the "correlation" is the fact that such things as this do indeed happen, usually to newer gun owners. Those who have owned them longer and used them longer don't quite seem to undergo such silliness as often.

That seems to be enough for me.:wavey: