1st range session for my Gen 4 20 [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : 1st range session for my Gen 4 20


21Glock
07-05-2012, 18:43
Went down to my hunting property and did some shooting on the 4th.
This is the first 10mm I've ever owned and fired. Surprised by the recoil, very manageable, about on par with a mid-hot range loads in my .45 21SF.
I put together some hand loads and did some chronoraph work, no accuracy testing this time. Gun all stock.

165gr. JHP- average, AA#7 11gr. 1150fps
AA#7 12gr. 1200fps

175gr.(Lee) LSWC average AA#7 9.4gr. 800+fps
AA#7 10.4 935-1050fps

No leading using Lee Liquid Alox, with ww for alloy.

Very slight bulge with 11gr. and 12gr. AA#7 with the 165 gr. JHP loads. Will invest in a 6" KKM barrel soon as I shoot hotter rounds going forward.
No FTFs or FTEs.

First time out, I'm impressed, glad I finally got a 10mm. Have alot more loads to work up and test for velocity and accuracy.

On a side note, shot some .45 Super loads in a my modified 21SF and had some failures to chamber after a round was fired. Need to get some extra power mag. springs from what I've heard others say. Pushing a 230gr. JHP about 1150-1200fps.

NoJoy
07-05-2012, 23:33
Would you say that recoil between your 10mm and 45 Super were simuliar?

21Glock
07-06-2012, 06:00
Would you say that recoil between your 10mm and 45 Super were simuliar?

Maybe on hot 10mm loads. I think the ones I shot with the 165gr. JHP were probably factory spec., not on the upper end. At least they didn't seem too rough for me, recoil wise.

nickE10mm
07-06-2012, 07:29
Went down to my hunting property and did some shooting on the 4th.
This is the first 10mm I've ever owned and fired. Surprised by the recoil, very manageable, about on par with a mid-hot range loads in my .45 21SF.
I put together some hand loads and did some chronoraph work, no accuracy testing this time. Gun all stock.

165gr. JHP- average, AA#7 11gr. 1150fps
AA#7 12gr. 1200fps

175gr.(Lee) LSWC average AA#7 9.4gr. 800+fps
AA#7 10.4 935-1050fps

No leading using Lee Liquid Alox, with ww for alloy.

Very slight bulge with 11gr. and 12gr. AA#7 with the 165 gr. JHP loads. Will invest in a 6" KKM barrel soon as I shoot hotter rounds going forward.
No FTFs or FTEs.

First time out, I'm impressed, glad I finally got a 10mm. Have alot more loads to work up and test for velocity and accuracy.

On a side note, shot some .45 Super loads in a my modified 21SF and had some failures to chamber after a round was fired. Need to get some extra power mag. springs from what I've heard others say. Pushing a 230gr. JHP about 1150-1200fps.

Cool, thanks for the report and welcome! However, with the level of loads you're shooting, its no surprise that recoil was light and puffy like a .45ACP. Those loads are target level... :) I'm sure you already know this, though.

Shoot some full powered stuff... you will love it!

21Glock
07-06-2012, 10:03
Cool, thanks for the report and welcome! However, with the level of loads you're shooting, its no surprise that recoil was light and puffy like a .45ACP. Those loads are target level... :) I'm sure you already know this, though.

Shoot some full powered stuff... you will love it!

Oh yeah, when I get my KKM barrel in soon, I'll amp it up a good bit and let her stretch her legs out and run!

Just want to save my brass from having big un-usable bulges and smileys.
Any ideas on those loads that I listed on how much I can increase each one to the max. If you could give your advice on each one.

Thanks!

nickE10mm
07-06-2012, 10:29
Oh yeah, when I get my KKM barrel in soon, I'll amp it up a good bit and let her stretch her legs out and run!

Just want to save my brass from having big un-usable bulges and smileys.
Any ideas on those loads that I listed on how much I can increase each one to the max. If you could give your advice on each one.

Thanks!

Well, obviously, I can't tell you when you will see bulges since all barrels are different, but I can tell you that your cast load looks really good. If you're not getting any leading at that level, I'd stay there. You might fool around with a BIT more powder to see if your groups shrink but lower velocity will be better with the softer cast bullets.

As for the jacketed 165gr load, just remember that AA7 is typically a primer flattener in my experience with it... but its a good medium powder to use for 10mm, especially for 180gr and less bullet weights. If you're making 1200fps with the 165 with 12gr AA7, you're doing okay, although I'm GUESSING that AA7 could nearly make 1300 at max charge. You will need to find out on your own, safely and slowly. AA7 is one of my favorite powders for what you're using it for... medium loads in both cast and jacketed. Its a nice, accurate powder, too. Also, remember that a bulge is usually okay... its the smiles that you need to really worry about. :)

A lot of people are surprised at the level of power one can attain from simply using the stock G20 barrel. I've shot some pretty hefty loads in both my G20SF and G29SF stock barrels. Just work up slowly and carefully.

Also, my last tip: There is no race to the top loads. Not necessary. If you ever feel uncomfortable with a load, simply save it for another time! The 10mm spoils us because, even in medium loads, they are quite formidable. (Although I can't lie, my 200gr XTP load @ 1325fps from my 6" Fusion really burns my bacon)

Stay safe!

21Glock
07-06-2012, 13:44
Well, obviously, I can't tell you when you will see bulges since all barrels are different, but I can tell you that your cast load looks really good. If you're not getting any leading at that level, I'd stay there. You might fool around with a BIT more powder to see if your groups shrink but lower velocity will be better with the softer cast bullets.

As for the jacketed 165gr load, just remember that AA7 is typically a primer flattener in my experience with it... but its a good medium powder to use for 10mm, especially for 180gr and less bullet weights. If you're making 1200fps with the 165 with 12gr AA7, you're doing okay, although I'm GUESSING that AA7 could nearly make 1300 at max charge. You will need to find out on your own, safely and slowly. AA7 is one of my favorite powders for what you're using it for... medium loads in both cast and jacketed. Its a nice, accurate powder, too. Also, remember that a bulge is usually okay... its the smiles that you need to really worry about. :)

A lot of people are surprised at the level of power one can attain from simply using the stock G20 barrel. I've shot some pretty hefty loads in both my G20SF and G29SF stock barrels. Just work up slowly and carefully.

Also, my last tip: There is no race to the top loads. Not necessary. If you ever feel uncomfortable with a load, simply save it for another time! The 10mm spoils us because, even in medium loads, they are quite formidable. (Although I can't lie, my 200gr XTP load @ 1325fps from my 6" Fusion really burns my bacon)

Stay safe!
Thanks, for the info.
What is your 6" Fusion, an after market barrel, I assume? What powder and weight are you using for 1325fps with a 200gr XTP?
Stock springs? What do you think of AA#9?
I've heard some good things about it velocity wise.

21Glock
07-06-2012, 18:37
Well, obviously, I can't tell you when you will see bulges since all barrels are different, but I can tell you that your cast load looks really good. If you're not getting any leading at that level, I'd stay there. You might fool around with a BIT more powder to see if your groups shrink but lower velocity will be better with the softer cast bullets.

As for the jacketed 165gr load, just remember that AA7 is typically a primer flattener in my experience with it... but its a good medium powder to use for 10mm, especially for 180gr and less bullet weights. If you're making 1200fps with the 165 with 12gr AA7, you're doing okay, although I'm GUESSING that AA7 could nearly make 1300 at max charge. You will need to find out on your own, safely and slowly. AA7 is one of my favorite powders for what you're using it for... medium loads in both cast and jacketed. Its a nice, accurate powder, too. Also, remember that a bulge is usually okay... its the smiles that you need to really worry about. :)

A lot of people are surprised at the level of power one can attain from simply using the stock G20 barrel. I've shot some pretty hefty loads in both my G20SF and G29SF stock barrels. Just work up slowly and carefully.

Also, my last tip: There is no race to the top loads. Not necessary. If you ever feel uncomfortable with a load, simply save it for another time! The 10mm spoils us because, even in medium loads, they are quite formidable. (Although I can't lie, my 200gr XTP load @ 1325fps from my 6" Fusion really burns my bacon)

Stay safe!

I checked. Fusion is 10mm long slide 1911. Never heard of them before you mentioned them. Nice, strong 1911s from what I see there on their web site.

nickE10mm
07-06-2012, 18:42
Thanks, for the info.
What is your 6" Fusion, an after market barrel, I assume? What powder and weight are you using for 1325fps with a 200gr XTP?
Stock springs? What do you think of AA#9?
I've heard some good things about it velocity wise.

Well the Fusion is a custom built pistol so yes, the barrel has FULL case support... better than any barrel I've ever owned (including Barsto fitted barrels). I got to 1325fps with 9.4gr of Longshot under the 200gr XTP (CCI300 NON-mag primers) and new Starline cases. Do your own workups as I can't be responsible if something goes wrong. Its safe in my pistol under my circumstances. ;) I've shot this load with both a 20lb and a 22lb recoil spring with equal success. I also have a 24lb spring but I don't use it because I feel its too much. Honestly, I think a 20lb spring in a G20 and 22lb spring in a 1911 is about right (for my shooting).

As for AA9, I've studied it a lot but never used any myself. It appears to me that its great for book loads but you run out of case space before you run into pressure problems, at least with heavy bullets. FWIW, I LOVEEEE AA7 so I feel that I'd also really like AA9... but my needs are best served with three powders for the most part: Longshot, Blue Dot and HP38 (W231). I also really like AA7 and Power Pistol but I stick mostly with the big three. Also, 800X is the best overall for velocity and hotrodding but it doesn't meter and only beats out Longshot by a tiny margin in most cases, so my half used LB of 800X just sits there unused for the most part.

21Glock
07-06-2012, 21:19
Well the Fusion is a custom built pistol so yes, the barrel has FULL case support... better than any barrel I've ever owned (including Barsto fitted barrels). I got to 1325fps with 9.4gr of Longshot under the 200gr XTP (CCI300 NON-mag primers) and new Starline cases. Do your own workups as I can't be responsible if something goes wrong. Its safe in my pistol under my circumstances. ;) I've shot this load with both a 20lb and a 22lb recoil spring with equal success. I also have a 24lb spring but I don't use it because I feel its too much. Honestly, I think a 20lb spring in a G20 and 22lb spring in a 1911 is about right (for my shooting).

As for AA9, I've studied it a lot but never used any myself. It appears to me that its great for book loads but you run out of case space before you run into pressure problems, at least with heavy bullets. FWIW, I LOVEEEE AA7 so I feel that I'd also really like AA9... but my needs are best served with three powders for the most part: Longshot, Blue Dot and HP38 (W231). I also really like AA7 and Power Pistol but I stick mostly with the big three. Also, 800X is the best overall for velocity and hotrodding but it doesn't meter and only beats out Longshot by a tiny margin in most cases, so my half used LB of 800X just sits there unused for the most part.

I agree about working up on loads. Guns and especially hands are too expensive to repair because of wanting to shoot a certain load that may be too hot.
I've heard some good things about Longshot as well.
The Longshot load you mentioned for the 200gr. XTP, is that only for the Fusion gun or would you trust it in one of your 20s that is properly set up, fully supported barrel(KKM), heavy 22lb-24lb. recoil springs, steel guide rod?

nickE10mm
07-06-2012, 21:24
...
The Longshot load you mentioned for the 200gr. XTP, is that only for the Fusion gun or would you trust it in one of your 20s that is properly set up, fully supported barrel(KKM), heavy 22lb-24lb. recoil springs, steel guide rod?

In general, YES, I believe a G20 (properly setup with a fully supported barrel and 22-24lb recoil spring) would be totally suitable, assuming you did a safe workup. I plan on working up the same load in my G20SF w/ fitted Barsto 4.6". :)

21Glock
07-07-2012, 11:45
In general, YES, I believe a G20 (properly setup with a fully supported barrel and 22-24lb recoil spring) would be totally suitable, assuming you did a safe workup. I plan on working up the same load in my G20SF w/ fitted Barsto 4.6". :)


Thanks, you have been very helpful. I feel even better about getting the KKM 6" barrel for my Gen 4 20 now. I'll pick up some Longshot at the next gun show and starting working up some loads.
I've got the Gen 4 RSA adapter from Glockmeister that will fit in my Gen 4 so I can use Gen 3 guide rods and recoil springs, good excuse to get an extra ss guide rod and another 22lb. recoil spring so my Gen 21SF won't have to be stripped of its RSA.

nickE10mm
07-07-2012, 11:54
Thanks, you have been very helpful. I feel even better about getting the KKM 6" barrel for my Gen 4 20 now. I'll pick up some Longshot at the next gun show and starting working up some loads.
I've got the Gen 4 RSA adapter from Glockmeister that will fit in my Gen 4 so I can use Gen 3 guide rods and recoil springs, good excuse to get an extra ss guide rod and another 22lb. recoil spring so my Gen 21SF won't have to be stripped of its RSA.

Also, I happen to think the KKM 6" barrel is a best buy - so good choice!

bac1023
07-07-2012, 20:01
Thanks for the info

DASA
07-17-2012, 14:07
How is the case support in the barrel of your Gen 4 G20? I was hoping it was improved over the Gen 3 G20 I have (circa early 2007) but you mentioned case bulges on your 165 gr 1200 fps load so it doesn't sound like Glock improved the case support. I want to try out Underwood Ammo's 165 gr load which clocks at 1400fps so it looks like a KKM barrel is in my future. Sigh. I was hoping to convince myself I needed a new Gen 4 G20!

Quarter Tank
07-19-2012, 08:53
Oh yeah, when I get my KKM barrel in soon, I'll amp it up a good bit and let her stretch her legs out and run!

Just want to save my brass from having big un-usable bulges and smileys.
Any ideas on those loads that I listed on how much I can increase each one to the max. If you could give your advice on each one.

Thanks!

I will be getting my hands on a Gen4 20 hopefully soon. Will a KKM barrel for a Gen3 fit in a Gen4 since the RSA has changed?

Thanks in advance.




Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

arushus
07-20-2012, 16:01
Where can one buy a Gen 4 G20???

Fire_Medic
07-20-2012, 16:11
Right now Ed's Public Safety is the only place I know of. However, as of mid 2011 Glock has put territory restrictions on dealers that did not use to exist, so depending on what state you live in they may or may not be able to ship to you. I had contacted them but they can't ship to FL, and my local LE dealer said 1-2 months to order me one, and as impatient as I am I went with a Gen 3 G20SF. I still want a Gen4 though, I just prefer the the larger mag release, and the texturing, and the way the grip feels and how the guns handle. My Gen 4 G19 and Gen 4 G21 shoot like a dream.

21Glock
07-22-2012, 20:12
We'll know tomorrow. My new KKM barrel will be here then. KKM says their barrels fit in the Gen 4s.

Fire_Medic
07-22-2012, 20:14
I had emailed them about barrel fitment and they told me yes their barrels will work in a Gen 4 gun.

21Glock
07-24-2012, 05:26
I got my KKM 6" barrel in yesterday. It works with the Gen 4 20 RSA, no problem, Fit right in.

nraman
09-24-2012, 21:01
How is the case support in the barrel of your Gen 4 G20? I was hoping it was improved over the Gen 3 G20 I have (circa early 2007) but you mentioned case bulges on your 165 gr 1200 fps load so it doesn't sound like Glock improved the case support. I want to try out Underwood Ammo's 165 gr load which clocks at 1400fps so it looks like a KKM barrel is in my future. Sigh. I was hoping to convince myself I needed a new Gen 4 G20!

I think we have two separate issues here. Looseness in the chamber and case support over the feed ramp.
A chamber that is a bit loose is more reliable for feeding straight wall cases like the .40 and 10mm. A chamber without enough support over the feed ramp gives the famous smileys on the 10mm cases.
Glock improved the feed ramp support and tightened the chamber in the late models in the .40 and I would be surprised if they didn't do the same for the Gen 4 10mm.