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rvrrat14
07-07-2012, 21:05
Gonna try AA 9 with 14.8, 15.0, 15.2 and 15.4 in stock G20 gen 3. Will be using Starline brass and 165 gr GDHPs.

Looking for good power but not HOT. Please experts tell me what you think. THANKS

dm1906
07-08-2012, 01:42
Gonna try AA 9 with 14.8, 15.0, 15.2 and 15.4 in stock G20 gen 3. Will be using Starline brass and 165 gr GDHPs.

Looking for good power but not HOT. Please experts tell me what you think. THANKS

I suggest starting at 13.6 gr. or below and working up. 14 is a stout load, and more is "hot" for 165's. You will probably loose accuracy before you get too far (14.2+ gr.). AA9 is a veeeery slow powder for light bullets, and 165's are in the middle, bullet weight-wise. AA7 would be a much better choice for better velocity, accuracy and versatility. Above 15 grains in a stock barrel is not a good idea. Work up very slowly from the basement. Don't start at the roof.

WeeWilly
07-08-2012, 09:21
I think the current max load from Accurate load data is 15.0grs of #9 using 165gr jacketed.

I believe Accurate has pared back their max loads in recent years, but starting out, it probably would be wise to keep it down to a dull roar until you are very familiar.

TDC20
07-08-2012, 09:31
rvrrat14, please take a look at Accurate's "book" data for A#9 and a Sierra 165 HP. The starting load is 13.5gr with a max load of 15.0gr. That is with a Win. WLP primer.

I agree with dm1906's advice on this. Don't start at the top. Do you have a chronograph? If not, you are flying blind with your load work-ups, which is why it's even more important to start at the "book" starting load and work up to the "book" maximum.

There are a lot of factors which you don't have control over. Different lots of primers and powder can burn faster or slower. You are using a GDHP instead of a Sierra, there could be variations in barrel friction with the gilding metal, dia, and how OAL affects the seating depth of the bullet at the base...all things that will affect pressure. Also, all barrels are not the same as there will always be slight variations in chamber dimensions, smoothness, rifling, etc.

Most published data take these irregularities into account and they tend to be somewhat conservative, but not always. I have had more than one occasion loading pistol and rifle over the years where the published load was way too hot.

A#9 is a great 10mm powder, but you should respect it and recognize that hand loading can be dangerous if you ignore the published loads and don't exercise the proper caution in how to work up to maximum pressures. Even if you have a chronograph, it's still dangerous to go above book loads. You need to be very familiar with the powder and components, and fully understand what you are trying to accomplish and why.

rvrrat14
07-08-2012, 09:39
I do have a chrony and been loading for over 25 years. Have looked at all the data I can find and have all the latest books from Speer, Hornady, Nosler.
Looking for a 1250-1350 fps load. As all published data is well under 37500, the loads I've listed and what folks have posted should be more than safe. Also spoke with Scott at Accurate. Shot Hornady 155s XTP with no pressure signs. Want something for hogs and not a lot of hard recoil. THANKS.

TDC20
07-08-2012, 09:53
I do have a chrony and been loading for over 25 years. Have looked at all the data I can find and have all the latest books from Speer, Hornady, Nosler.
Looking for a 1250-1350 fps load. As all published data is well under 37500, the loads I've listed and what folks have posted should be more than safe. Also spoke with Scott at Accurate. Shot Hornady 155s XTP with no pressure signs. Want something for hogs and not a lot of hard recoil. THANKS.
You're good to go, then. I was confused by your title "Newby - first loads", since I would never recommend someone new to reloading to take such an approach, but you obviously have done your homework and have the necessary tools and experience. Please report back with results.

I always worry about people new to reloading trying to reproduce some nuclear loads right off the start. There are some loads that have been posted which, IMHO, are well over the top, and I would hate to find out someone was injured using internet data without the understanding of what they were doing.

rvrrat14
07-08-2012, 10:06
No problem. Speer latest shows 14.5 as start with 15.5 as max.
Never loaded no9 but have loaded tons of 296 for 44 mag. I do heed all you guys warnings and advise, believe you me!

Accurate is 15.0 max and only 34100 psi. Pending on chamber maybe room to grow on top side. Not for me.

I love this forum and the amount of useful data. THANKS to all.

dm1906
07-08-2012, 10:17
"Newby - first loads
Looking for good power but not HOT. Please experts tell me what you think."

What does this mean to you, if you read it from a post'er you don't know, or have any knowledge of? You've been a GT member for near 2 years and have a few posts. What's "newby" about you? Sorry, but my E.S.P. is on the blink lately. 25 years handloading experience is hardly "newby" experience. You kinda' left out that part.

Problem is, many beginners to handloading assume what they read others are doing will work for them. It's as much our fault, and we often assume the reader's experience is at least close to ours, or sufficient to follow basic handloading procedure.

Always work up a new load at an acceptable starting charge. If you have a chrono, stop when you reach your goal (energy/velocity), indications of max pressure, or the max book load. As said above, there are countless factors that affect the performance of a cartridge, which are taken into account with the published loads. You only control a few of them, nature, manufacturers and luck take care of the rest. Every handloader should know that a new load (new to them), new components or a new objective requires a new start. It's just that simple.

You are asking the question, but you won't be the only one reading the replies. There may, in fact, be a "newby" handloader reading. Who's responsible for that person, when they take advice and something goes really wrong?

dm1906
07-08-2012, 10:43
No problem. Speer latest shows 14.5 as start with 15.5 as max.
Never loaded no9 but have loaded tons of 296 for 44 mag. I do heed all you guys warnings and advise, believe you me!

Accurate is 15.0 max and only 34100 psi. Pending on chamber maybe room to grow on top side. Not for me.

I love this forum and the amount of useful data. THANKS to all.

If you're experienced with W296, you should also know it's a very different animal than almost any other pistol powder. W296 must be loaded very close to full case capacity, and should never be reduced below 90% case fill, and load reductions should never be more than 3-5%. These rules do not apply to any other common pistol powder (except H110, which is the same as W296), and can lead to very dangerous results if applied to others. Comparing W296 characteristics to AA9 is a dangerous proposition.

Also, published pressures are only averages, tested under very controlled conditions, with very specific components, with very specific testing equipment. That's a lot of "very specific's", as are their results, which you won't likely see in your experience. Published results are only a range of what you might see.

rvrrat14
07-08-2012, 10:48
"Newby - first loads
Looking for good power but not HOT. Please experts tell me what you think."

What does this mean to you, if you read it from a post'er you don't know, or have any knowledge of? You've been a GT member for near 2 years and have a few posts. What's "newby" about you? Sorry, but my E.S.P. is on the blink lately. 25 years handloading experience is hardly "newby" experience. You kinda' left out that part.

Problem is, many beginners to handloading assume what they read others are doing will work for them. It's as much our fault, and we often assume the reader's experience is at least close to ours, or sufficient to follow basic handloading procedure.

Always work up a new load at an acceptable starting charge. If you have a chrono, stop when you reach your goal (energy/velocity), indications of max pressure, or the max book load. As said above, there are countless factors that affect the performance of a cartridge, which are taken into account with the published loads. You only control a few of them, nature, manufacturers and luck take care of the rest. Every handloader should know that a new load (new to them), new components or a new objective requires a new start. It's just that simple.

You are asking the question, but you won't be the only one reading the replies. There may, in fact, be a "newby" handloader reading. Who's responsible for that person, when they take advice and something goes really wrong?

Newby to reloading the 10 mm! From info here seems like the 10 is a special animal in the Glock. Ok?

rvrrat14
07-08-2012, 10:56
Simply put....question was for me not the masses. If u want to goof on me go ahead I'm a big boy. Maybe we should post liabilities in all our signatures. OPs, can you automatically do this so when I ask a question for myself everyone will understand its only for me? geez.

Not wanting to start anything here....and thanks to you that provided a respectful answer. As previously stated, I appreciate it. I have more to do than disect every word or response on a forum. Or take an hour to TASTE my words to make sure they're what EVERYONE WANTS TO HEAR. My apologies to you, sir.

dm1906
07-08-2012, 11:42
Nothing personal, no disrespect intended, and no apology necessary. We are all guilty of the complacency from time to time. We often get so comfortable in our online exchanges with familiar "names", we forget about the other 10's, 100's and even 1000's of the onlookers. I'm saying nothing more than just that. Handloading and shooting in general is inherently dangerous. What is second nature to some may be new to others. The disclaimers are in place, but useless if unread, which is often the case.

TDC20
07-08-2012, 13:22
Simply put....question was for me not the masses. If u want to goof on me go ahead I'm a big boy. Maybe we should post liabilities in all our signatures. OPs, can you automatically do this so when I ask a question for myself everyone will understand its only for me? geez.

Not wanting to start anything here....and thanks to you that provided a respectful answer. As previously stated, I appreciate it. I have more to do than disect every word or response on a forum. Or take an hour to TASTE my words to make sure they're what EVERYONE WANTS TO HEAR. My apologies to you, sir.
No problems here. In the past, some people here used to get quite touchy about posting unpublished loads, so I used to post this disclaimer whenever I posted load data:

"Disclaimer: This load exceeds published data maximums and therefore should not be assumed to be safe in your gun or any gun. Using this load could result in serious injury or death to the shooter or bystanders. Be aware of the possibility of typographical errors concerning any load data. Handloading can be dangerous and should only be attempted by those with the proper training and knowledge. Always reduce any load by an appropriate amount and work up while exercising extreme caution. Always wear appropriate safety equipment and eye protection while handloading and shooting. Never substitute components or make changes to OAL without fully understanding the risks, or without reducing the load appropriately and working up while exercising extreme caution. If you have trouble following instructions, commonly transpose numbers, or are typically careless and prone to making mistakes, please consider a less dangerous hobby other than handloading ammunition for your safety and the safety of those around you."

Kind of wordy, and certainly not lawyer-proof, but at least I can say I tried to make the point....

Anyways, have you considered using a 180 XTP for hogs? I would think that recoil from a 180 @ 1200 fps would be almost unnoticeable (and probably less) than from a 165 @ 1300fps. I think the XTP's expand a little less and therefore give you better penetration. My personal preference is GDHP's for SD, and XTP's for hunting.

Good luck and be safe!

Taterhead
07-08-2012, 15:00
I suggest starting at 13.6 gr. or below and working up. 14 is a stout load, and more is "hot" for 165's. You will probably loose accuracy before you get too far (14.2+ gr.). AA9 is a veeeery slow powder for light bullets, and 165's are in the middle, bullet weight-wise. AA7 would be a much better choice for better velocity, accuracy and versatility. Above 15 grains in a stock barrel is not a good idea. Work up very slowly from the basement. Don't start at the roof.

I agree with reducing the starting loads. However, 14.0 grains is 0.5 grains below the starting charge called for in the Speer #14 manual, and it is only 0.5 grains above the starting charge called for by Accurate. It is not anywhere approaching worrisome levels, from what I have personally observed; and what is found in book data.

Before Accurate consolidated load data, 14.5 grains was the max for a 180 GDHP @ ~ 33,000 psi. 15.0 was the max for a 170 Nos JHP. Hornady calls for 14.9 grains as the max for a 180. When Speer used to publish data for a 200 gr TJM (now discontinued), 14.0 grains was the max. My point is that 14.0 grains is getting warm for a 180, but is a bit light for a 165. Accordingly, better groups are found at stouter charges.

Accurate's max is 15.0 grains for a 165 Sierra bullet. Speer's #14 Manual for a 165 GDHP calls for a max of 15.5 with a magnum primer. So the OP is by no means going into nuclear territory at the loads described. In fact, that is a good range for good function as observed in my G20. Splitting the difference between maxes published by Speer and Accurate for the 15.0+ loads.

As far as #7 giving better velocity, #9 pushes bullets significantly faster than #7 in bullet weights from 155 on up - with lower indications of pressure too. Accurate's published data corroborates my personal observations. There are reasons to use #7 for mid-weight bullets, but high velocities are not one of them.

In my testing of working up to the Speer max of 15.5 grains in my G20, I have settled on 15.2 grains as the sweet spot (CCI 350). Great groups, and velocities that aren't over-driving this bullet. This is my carry load for in town. Accordingly, I have extensively tested this load for function, groups, excessive pressures, smiles, terminal effects, and so forth. I even shot an IDPA match with that load (100+ round count).

So to respond to the OP who is "looking for good power but not HOT," then the charge weights mentioned in the OP will be on the money. Yes, please reduce to at least 14.0 grains and work up in small increments. A standard primer will work fine too (WLP is called for by Accurate vs. CCI 350 called for by Speer). A standard primer will likely yield velocities 15-25 fps slower than I have observed with mag primers.

rvrrat14
07-08-2012, 17:08
Thanks tater. All good info. May be a few weeks before I load but I'm ready to begin now. On a side note I live in Bastrop tx where the wildfires destroyed over 1500 homes last Labor Day. Our home was spared but well and shop total loss. Have most of my reloading stuff replaced now but all my data was destroyed. Starting over ain't fun! Thus me asking lots of questions. Thanks again y'all!