Front cocking serrations [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Reaver
07-09-2012, 00:08
I did a quick Google search to see what the deal was but all I came up with was people bickering. I figured Iíd come to you folks who seem to be a little more sane.

I have them on my P229 (Custom Shop model, it just kind of happened) and I get that theyíre supposed to help with press checks but I donít get it. Maybe I donít understand what a press check is like I thought I did. Either way I can and always have been able to check if Iím loaded just fine from the normal (rear) cocking serrations. I kindaí figured it was a gimmick from the manufactures until I started finding people that sent their pistols in to shops to get them added.

Does anybody know something I donít or is this actually crazy?

12131
07-09-2012, 00:44
Gimmick, as far as I'm concerned. Have it on my Colt XSE, but they're just there.

bac1023
07-09-2012, 00:58
I don't care for them at all.

1911s and other pistols look much better without FCS and I have no need for them.

Gertz
07-09-2012, 02:34
I like them...

jp3975
07-09-2012, 02:40
I knew a guy that blew his thumb off using them.

Why not use the standard ones on the rear?

Goldendog Redux
07-09-2012, 03:15
Don't care for them. I also think all slide manipulation should be done at the rear of the slide. But what do I know...

MF

Breadman03
07-09-2012, 04:11
I think they are a waste. My hand doesn't need to be near the muzzle. If I'm doing a press check, I'm using the rear of the slide. In the dark, I use my pinkie to probe the chamber.

Lior
07-09-2012, 04:27
My CZ Shadow has them, and I use the front slide serrations often for making ready at the beginning of IPSC stages, locking the slide back before inserting a magazine. Its rear sights are a little sharp and have no bevel, so the ability to rack far from them is useful.

Toyman
07-09-2012, 06:00
I knew a guy that blew his thumb off using them.

Why not use the standard ones on the rear?

I think they're meant to be used with your weak hand underneath the weapon, not above. It allows for slide manipulation without your hand being over the ejection port, or obstructing the view of the chamber.

If you use them from above the slide, you risk getting your hand in front of the muzzle.

Like this:
http://www.fishous.com/boards/presscheck.png

From: The Press Check: How & Why by Gomez-Training.com - YouTube

Bruce M
07-09-2012, 06:03
Depends on the gun as far as asthetics. And I also thought if they were used it should be an underhand grasp.

M2 Carbine
07-09-2012, 07:27
IMO.......ugly, but more important, unnecessary.

ChicagoZman
07-09-2012, 07:34
Most any new gun made today has some form of loaded chamber indicator, eliminating the need for press checks. But they are cool looking.

Bren
07-09-2012, 07:41
Unlike the rest of us, super tactical ninja operators never seem to know/remember if they have a round chambered. Therefore, they do "press checks" to find out what a real shooter would already know. They also don't spend a lot of time worrying about how guns work, so when they chamber a round they like to do an immediate press check to see if a round actually went into the chamber by whatever black magic guns use to get it there.

Since a lot of people new to guns want to be super tactical ninja operators, that creates a demand for press checks and for guns that have front sldie serations for doing them the cool way that super tactical ninja operators do them. Just having the serrations on the front of you slide marks you as a super tactical ninja operator - to newbs you will be godlike...and to shooters you will be marked as a newb by your super tactical ninja operator gun. It's ironic.:rofl:

fnfalman
07-09-2012, 07:59
I was told by a poster that if I were "professionally trained" then I would have known what to do with the front cocking serration.

faawrenchbndr
07-09-2012, 08:00
Bren,

Can I be a Tactical Super Ninja Operator?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c341/faawrenchbndr/33eb121d.jpg

Arc Angel
07-09-2012, 08:31
I did a quick Google search to see what the deal was but all I came up with was people bickering. I figured Iíd come to you folks who seem to be a little more sane.

I have them on my P229 (Custom Shop model, it just kind of happened) and I get that theyíre supposed to help with press checks but I donít get it. Maybe I donít understand what a press check is like I thought I did. Either way I can and always have been able to check if Iím loaded just fine from the normal (rear) cocking serrations. I kindaí figured it was a gimmick from the manufactures until I started finding people that sent their pistols in to shops to get them added.

Does anybody know something I donít or is this actually crazy?

First, I'm not really a, 'gun gamesman'; and, consequently, I rarely use Glock's, 'slide stop'. If I could I'd have front cocking serrations on ALL of my semiautomatic pistols. Why? Well, it has nothing to do with, 'press checks'; although that is one reason to use them. The reason, 'Why' I like front cocking serrations is because, sometimes, it's a lot easier to pinch the front of the slide in order to charge the pistol than it is to go, 'hand over top' from the rear.

To answer your question, directly: No, front cocking serrations are NOT just decoration. I've already injured my support hand to the point where all I had left to grab with were my thumb and index finger. Wait until you get older, too (like me!). Once your hand strength isn't what it used to be I think you'll appreciate front cocking serrations more than you do at the present moment. ;)

fnfalman
07-09-2012, 09:31
First, I'm not really a, 'gun gamesman'; and, consequently, I rarely use Glock's, 'slide stop'. If I could I'd have front cocking serrations on ALL of my semiautomatic pistols. Why? Well, it has nothing to do with, 'press checks'; although that is one reason to use them. The reason, 'Why' I like front cocking serrations is because, sometimes, it's a lot easier to pinch the front of the slide in order to charge the pistol than it is to go, 'hand over top' from the rear.

I'm missing something here. Why can't you pinch the back of the slide where the original location for the serration is and pull it back to charge the gun?

To answer your question, directly: No, front cocking serrations are NOT just decoration. I've already injured my support hand to the point where all I had left to grab with were my thumb and index finger. Wait until you get older, too (like me!). Once your hand strength isn't what it used to be I think you'll appreciate front cocking serrations more than you do at the present moment. ;)

You're going to have to show me some photos as to how you need the front serration to do this. Why can't you use the thumb and index fingers on the back serration?

Goldendog Redux
07-09-2012, 12:37
I think the FCS are for the prostate massage that follows when the bad guy takes the gun away from the ninja warrior.

nathanours
07-09-2012, 15:06
I custom built my 1911 mainly because I did not want the serrations up front.

Baba Louie
07-09-2012, 16:09
Originally designed by Browning on one of his early semi auto long slides (1902 or 05? dunno), later transitioned to the rear and stayed there for 80-90 years or so.

Jeff Cooper advocated press checks to ensure firearm was in fact loaded and hot; early practitioners placed thumb inside triggerguard using index finger at recoil spring/bushing to ease slide back ... later determined this to be a serious no no as any finger inside triggerguard violated rule #3... or could.

Couple that thought with the race guns of the era with all kinds of things hanging over the rear serrations making racking slide a PITA, having a few up front made sense for those types of handguns, and PRESTO CHANGO, it/they were cool and "made the grade". (and only cost a few pennies more, eh? :supergrin:)

So what is new is old. Or vice versa. Again. I can do without them. Early CZ97s did not have them, later models do. Which kinda shows when they at least caught on big.

But if you're to press check using them, hand should be beneath, not over and clear of the muzzle at any rate. Bad form to blow a hole in your hand and get blood all over your nice new handgun or have a live round snug in the extractor ride back and maybe press up against a sticky extruding firing pin with potentially similar painful results.

Some people like them. I guess. :yawn:

PlasticGuy
07-09-2012, 17:01
I don't object to front serrations due to any functional or safety issues. If you use them correctly, they are safe. However, I have found that they slow down my draw when using most fitted leather holsters. That is enough to make me avoid them.

NEOH212
07-09-2012, 17:51
I don't care for them at all.

1911s and other pistols look much better without FCS and I have no need for them.

I agree. I guess on some guns they look ok, but just ok. I don't see where they actually do anything functional that I can't do with the rear cocking serrations.

They are more a selling gimmick than anything else.

vafish
07-09-2012, 18:11
I was told by a poster that if I were "professionally trained" then I would have known what to do with the front cocking serration.

They leave cool marks when you pistol whip someone.

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glock2740
07-09-2012, 18:13
I HATE FCS. No need for them whatsoever. Period. ESPECIALLY on a 1911.

Arc Angel
07-09-2012, 18:13
I'm missing something here. Why can't you pinch the back of the slide where the original location for the serration is and pull it back to charge the gun?

You can. However if you were used to using front cocking serrations you'd realize that it's faster and easier to, 'press check' from the front by grasping underneath the muzzle, AND it's also faster and easier to charge the pistol, too. (Charging I do by reaching over the top of the muzzle while pushing the frame forward.) In a sense it's what you get used to. Coincidentally, I have two damaged fingers on my right-hand; consequently, in order to stay fast with a pistol, (and I am fast!) I need to use the muzzle in order to work the slide.

You're going to have to show me some photos as to how you need the front serration to do this. Why can't you use the thumb and index fingers on the back serration?

Again, you can; and, if the slide is already locked back then I'm able to go, 'hand-over-top' in order to release it. It's when I'm charging or, 'press checking' a pistol that I do best by using the muzzle end. I'm not, 'just blowing smoke'. I do this all the time, and in public too, when I'm on a pistol firing line. Lots of other gunmen notice; but nobody ever says anything to me because, overall, I shoot well.

(This is how I've learned that an injured hand, or hands, can work a pistol better if that pistol is fitted with front cocking serrations.)

DoubleWide
07-09-2012, 18:31
Ugly and unneccesary.

jkm
07-09-2012, 19:15
A gimmick for amateurs. ....

Annhl8rX
07-09-2012, 20:52
I would have never guessed there would be such strong opinions on both sides of this issue. Heck, I couldn't even tell you whether or not the gun in my holster right now has them.

sfguard
07-09-2012, 20:56
I like them...

So do I. :dunno:

Arc Angel
07-10-2012, 02:00
Originally designed by Browning on one of his early semi auto long slides (1902 or 05? dunno), later transitioned to the rear and stayed there for 80-90 years or so.

Jeff Cooper advocated press checks to ensure firearm was in fact loaded and hot; early practitioners placed thumb inside triggerguard using index finger at recoil spring/bushing to ease slide back ... later determined this to be a serious no no as any finger inside triggerguard violated rule #3... or could.

Couple that thought with the race guns of the era with all kinds of things hanging over the rear serrations making racking slide a PITA, having a few up front made sense for those types of handguns, and PRESTO CHANGO, it/they were cool and "made the grade". (and only cost a few pennies more, eh? :supergrin:)

So what is new is old. Or vice versa. Again. I can do without them. Early CZ97s did not have them, later models do. Which kinda shows when they at least caught on big.

But if you're to press check using them, hand should be beneath, not over and clear of the muzzle at any rate. Bad form to blow a hole in your hand and get blood all over your nice new handgun or have a live round snug in the extractor ride back and maybe press up against a sticky extruding firing pin with potentially similar painful results.

Some people like them. I guess. :yawn:

There's some good information in this reply; and there's, also, a little too much personal opinion, as well. The reason, 'Why' CZ went with front cocking serrations is because a lot of users (customers) complained that the low back on CZ slides was too difficult to quickly grasp and use.

Baba Louie
07-10-2012, 03:25
...there's, also, a little too much personal opinion, as well.Oooh, pardon me sir. Wouldn't want that in a GT thread now would we? :supergrin:

And yet not every handgun made by CZ has FCS as far as I can tell, tho the basic Petter inside rail, thin slide design persists thru out their lineup. Some have them, some do not.

WARNING... Personal Opinion to follow here, as I do not have access to CZs customer service records and requests, safe to say that some of CZ's customers must like them, some do not. Or perhaps they simply have not retooled their mfg process to place them on all of their products. Dunno and don't care.

I was set on buying a CZ97, but alas, all the LGSs had were the dual serration later versions. So it is I passed on owning a pretty fine handgun. Aesthetics... yet another personal opinion thing. :rofl:

Arc Angel
07-10-2012, 04:28
One of the fellows I regularly shoot with specializes in CZ repairs. He taught me everything I know about CZ's. Personal opinions are fine. Fine, that is, as long as they don't make the owner look like a jerk. ;)

tjpet
07-10-2012, 11:20
FCS are a great help to any shooter with weak or arthritic hands. They allow more purchase area for the whole hand and work quite well in that role.

maxmanta
07-10-2012, 11:40
The were in vogue in the nineties amongst the IPSC/IDPA set.

If you like them, get them. Just don't expect to impress anyone.

fnfalman
07-10-2012, 12:37
FCS are a great help to any shooter with weak or arthritic hands. They allow more purchase area for the whole hand and work quite well in that role.

You have the same purchasing area as the rear slide. Grabbing the front doesn't seem to give any more leverage than grabbing the rear of the slide.

What am I not seeing?

oldnoob
07-10-2012, 13:51
I like them sometimes, and sometimes not. But I can't say I'm a loyal 1911 fan.


I also like Sig's 1911 slide profile over traditional...

deadite
07-10-2012, 14:03
I guess I don't really hate them...

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/deadite_photos/guns%20with%20new%20camera/127.jpg

...but I admit that the slide looks cleaner without them.

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/deadite_photos/guns%20with%20new%20camera/134.jpg

I realize that they are unnecessary, but so is the grip safety, right? I feel about the same when referring to overly large roll marks. I'd rather have FCS than big roll marks, personally.

deadite

ArtCrafter
07-10-2012, 16:19
I have no use for front-cocking serrrations, and they can be hard on holsters, which if you like good leather is a veritable sacrilege.

I avoid them and don't recommend them.

Magus
07-10-2012, 16:24
Overall never been a big fan. Cannot stand them on a 1911. Some guns they look okay...just depends. I will admit I have used them some on the XDM I got a while back. For the most part though, they're not needed.

3rdgen40
07-10-2012, 16:54
I HATE FCS. No need for them whatsoever. Period. ESPECIALLY on a 1911.
Amen Brother !

arclight610
07-10-2012, 17:21
I don't operate my pistols in such a way that I need front cocking serrations. If I do a chamber check, I just make a "C" with my right hand and slightly pull back the slide by the rear sight.

GLOCK17DB9
07-10-2012, 17:23
don't like 'em, won't use 'em:dunno:

JTSmith
07-10-2012, 18:28
You have the same purchasing area as the rear slide. Grabbing the front doesn't seem to give any more leverage than grabbing the rear of the slide.

What am I not seeing?

I'm a little confused too.

tjpet
07-22-2012, 20:57
By grasping the FCS with your fingers you can then semi-wrap the rest of you hand/fingers around the front part of the slide giving you more grip.

B_RAD
07-22-2012, 21:07
I like the look of them on Les Baer 1911's for some reason. On others with less LPI I don't like the look. I find my self doing a press check up towrads the front of the slide so on the guns I have with FCS it helps. However, I feel that it's a safer/better practice to use the rear end of the slide for press checks or racking the slide. If I was showing someone who's new to guns how to operate a pistol, I would show them how to do it by using the rear of the sllide.

12131
07-22-2012, 21:07
By grasping the FCS with your fingers you can then semi-wrap the rest of you hand/fingers around the front part of the slide giving you more grip.
You can do the same with the RCS.

cowboy1964
07-22-2012, 21:38
Not necessary. Doesn't hurt anything except maybe aesthestics (depends on the gun).

NeverMore1701
07-22-2012, 23:22
Pointless, ugly, and if I have the choice I won't buy a pistol with them.

Sporaticus
07-23-2012, 01:26
I guess paint ballers aren't familiar with the Applegate (? or was it Cooper) injured hand malfunction clearing procedure. You have to have FSS to properly execute the maneuver.

SigFTW
07-23-2012, 07:21
Never thought about it.
I have several guns with and without FCS and like them all.:cool: