Killed by hugging ccw [Archive] - Glock Talk

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vafish
07-09-2012, 06:52
http://us.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=25949&content=76049328&pageNum=-1

Well it was a Detroit cop. But he was carrying concealed.

I'm guessing a glock in a shoulder holster from the description.

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firefighter4215
07-09-2012, 06:54
I just can't see how a holstered weapon could go off in this scenario.

Oramac
07-09-2012, 07:46
I just can't see how a holstered weapon could go off in this scenario.

Only thing I can think is a shoulder holster that faces the gun directly backwards instead of down, but even then the trigger should have been well-covered. So you're right, not sure how it could've happened.

jph02
07-09-2012, 07:54
Already covered in this thread (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1431411). The Freep says it was a S&W carried IWB (http://www.freep.com/article/20120709/NEWS01/207090367/Detroit-officer-s-gun-kills-woman-incident-under-investigation), she tugged the officer's waist from behind, and the officer didn't know her.

B.Reid
07-09-2012, 09:30
Mexican carry?

OctoberRust
07-09-2012, 10:33
could open carry have prevented this?

mrsurfboard
07-09-2012, 14:04
Cheap, soft material holster, as per the Chief.

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/news/detroit-woman-killed-shot-whil

Stevekozak
07-09-2012, 14:21
Somebody pulled the trigger. It didn't go off by accident. Either the girl or the cop. I guess you can place your bets on which one it was.

Bren
07-09-2012, 15:19
Something wrong with that story, for sure. People posting about mexican carry and cheap holster seem to be ignoring that the bullet went through her heart and lung.

Do you think he was Mexican carrying it muzzle up?

I'm guessing the real story is not that she hugged him and the gun went off.

vafish
07-09-2012, 16:11
Cheap soft holster like an uncle mikes, she tugs at his waist, gun starts to come out of holster, someone's finger hits the trigger as they try to catch it?
Possible, but just as possible we don't have the whole story.

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SpringerTGO
07-09-2012, 16:33
Just to heat things up......

Israeli Carry anyone?

RonS
07-09-2012, 16:46
S&W auto in .40. Could it be a DA/SA metal frame auto carried hammer down and off safe but the hammer got snagged and cocked? Press release says it was carried IWB in a soft holster. I can remember coming in to the office on a cold night and seeing an officer carrying a revolver where his revolver had gotten against something, the safety strap was off and the gun was cocked in the holster. He was wearing an MA1 jacket which was kind of bulky at the waist and he hadn't seen the condition of the weapon. Wouldn't take much to discharge in that case.

Somehow it will be the fault of the gun maker, not the victim and not the officer.

GLOCK17DB9
07-09-2012, 16:48
just doesn't sound right!:dunno:

HKLovingIT
07-09-2012, 16:49
It sounds very weird. First thing I thought when I read it was horizontal shoulder holster mishap and that everyone who ever posted on here about the dangers of such rigs were going to come in here going "SEE!!!! SEE!!! WE TOLD YOU GUYS!" :rofl:

But with the info here it seems even weirder but weird things can happen.

bdcremer
07-09-2012, 17:12
Something smells with this story. Shoulder holster or any type of belt holster would have orientated the muzzle in such a way that a lung/heart shot would have been almost impossible. Unless the officer was wearing a horizontal shoulder rig and the girl hugs him from behind (her front to his back) it seems difficult.

kooman
07-09-2012, 17:21
"why would anyone carry a gun with a round in the chamber?" i cant get over that one

MannyA
07-09-2012, 18:37
http://us.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=25949&content=76049328&pageNum=-1

Well it was a Detroit cop. But he was carrying concealed.

I'm guessing a glock in a shoulder holster from the description.

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you'd be wrong!
http://ir.smith-wesson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=90977&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1282628&highlight=

steveksux
07-09-2012, 19:59
It was cheap IWB holster, too soft, to the point where you could accidentally manipulate the trigger through the holster.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120709/NEWS01/120709035/Police-Officer-s-gun-killed-Adaisha-Miller-had-trigger-could-reached-through-holster?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Lesson: don't skimp on holsters.

Randy

rjflyn
07-09-2012, 20:08
Was all over the local TV news tonight. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/Off-duty-Detroit-police-officer-s-gun-goes-off-kills-woman/-/1719418/15442732/-/hav3lz/-/index.html
Police chief made note that it was his issued service weapon- they carry M&P 40 cal. He also was waiving around some cheap ass neoprene holster.

took
07-09-2012, 20:56
[QUOTE=kooman;19178955]"why would anyone carry a gun with a round in the chamber?" i cant get over that one[/QUOTE
Reading the comments on the newspapers website shows how idiotic some individuals truly are. More people were wondering why a cop was carrying off duty in "his home", or why there was a round in the chamber, compared to how the firearm was discharged. With the remarks made from the victims mother its apparent she has already contacted an attorney.

bdcremer
07-09-2012, 21:39
After watching the video, I am calling BS. Even if there was some kind of shade-tree gunsmithing that reduced trigger safety. Bullets leave barrels in the direction they are pointed.

RyanNREMTP
07-10-2012, 06:38
Once they figure out how this one occurred they can use the evidence and finally figure out how JFK was killed.

RussP
07-10-2012, 08:23
Folks, there is no need to make derogatory posts about the woman killed.

I deleted one such post.

Any more will be deleted and infractions will be given.

jph02
07-10-2012, 09:56
I heard Chief Godbee on a radio talk show this morning. As in yesterday's press conference, he stressed the preliminary nature (http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/Uncut-video-Detroit-police-press-conference-on-fatal-shooting-involving-off-duty-officer/-/1719418/15449770/-/15morswz/-/index.html) of the findings so far. These included the trigger had to have been actuated in some manner and that could have happened through the particular holster. This morning he also said there will be a forensic reconstruction with particular interest in how Ms. Miller was struck in the chest by a gun in an IWB at the right hip.

SCmasterblaster
07-10-2012, 11:41
Somebody pulled the trigger. It didn't go off by accident. Either the girl or the cop. I guess you can place your bets on which one it was.

SOOOOOOO TRUE. Someone pulled the trigger. Just what kind of shoulder holster allows for an exposed trigger? If so, he should have been carrying with the chamber empty.

Wil Ufgood
07-10-2012, 12:12
Lesson: don't skimp on holsters.

Randy


:agree:

FireForged
07-10-2012, 12:29
There is just something not right about this story. There just has to be a missing component. Terrible accident for sure, but something doesnt add up.

Caver 60
07-10-2012, 12:38
Watched the Chief's interview.

I know most around here are speculating wether or not the trigger could be manipulated while the weapon was inside the holster.

Wish a reporter had asked if the pistol was fired while the weapon was inside the holster, or if the weapon was fired from outside the holster. The chief might not have answered the question. But it seems it should be a pretty simple matter to determine if the holster showed signs the weapon was fired while it was still inside the holster.

I haven't seen anything that definitely states the weapon was fired from inside the holster. Perhaps I missed something??? Please enlighten me.

RussP
07-10-2012, 17:08
SOOOOOOO TRUE. Someone pulled the trigger. Just what kind of shoulder holster allows for an exposed trigger? If so, he should have been carrying with the chamber empty.Did you by chance read other posts in this thread?

He was carrying IWB...

Glock_9mm
07-10-2012, 18:12
Had to of been some "dirty" dancing gone wrong. Just trying to think how she got shot where she did just because of a simple hug. I hope the officer was sober or this could turn really ugly.

Misty02
07-10-2012, 22:11
After watching the video, I am calling BS. Even if there was some kind of shade-tree gunsmithing that reduced trigger safety. Bullets leave barrels in the direction they are pointed.

Totally ignoring that someone pulled the trigger, going by body positions alone; I canít see it either, unless they were dancing, he was totally bent over and she wasnít standing straight either.

Now, who or what pulled the trigger? Lost balance and fell on something that got into the trigger guard because the soft material on the holster was not enough to prevent it?

It would take so many stars to align for this to happen as it is reported that winning the lotto 3 times in a row might be easier.

.

RussP
07-11-2012, 04:34
Totally ignoring that someone pulled the trigger, going by body positions alone; I canít see it either, unless they were dancing, he was totally bent over and she wasnít standing straight either.

Now, who or what pulled the trigger? Lost balance and fell on something that got into the trigger guard because the soft material on the holster was not enough to prevent it?

It would take so many stars to align for this to happen as it is reported that winning the lotto 3 times in a row might be easier.

.You do so have a way of putting things into perspective...:cool:

madcitycop
07-11-2012, 04:40
Totally ignoring that someone pulled the trigger, going by body positions alone; I can’t see it either, unless they were dancing, he was totally bent over and she wasn’t standing straight either.

Now, who or what pulled the trigger? Lost balance and fell on something that got into the trigger guard because the soft material on the holster was not enough to prevent it?

It would take so many stars to align for this to happen as it is reported that winning the lotto 3 times in a row might be easier.

.

this post is worthless without pics...


sorry i couldnt help myself.

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jph02
07-11-2012, 05:48
Police are now saying she was on her knees (http://www.freep.com/article/20120711/NEWS02/207110389/Family-of-woman-shot-at-cop-s-party-looking-for-answers) to explain how Ms. Miller was shot in the chest. To me, that makes it much harder to understand how the trigger was pulled on a weapon in a hip holster when you think about the orientation her hands must have been on his waist. Manipulating the trigger also had to be done through his pants (assume jeans?) and the neoprene material of the holster.

More "answers" begets more questions IMHO.

Misty02
07-11-2012, 05:57
You do so have a way of putting things into perspective...:cool:

I guess the near impossible can still happen? :embarassed:
this post is worthless without pics...


sorry i couldnt help myself.

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......and that would be one of those...a picture is worth 1,000 words

*******
I'm not trying to take importance away from someone loosing their life in what appears to be something extremely difficult to happen; but I would be lying if I denied some of the positions my mind has conjured up haven't made me smile a tad. Perhaps the explanation is a lot simpler than where my mind has gone. :embarassed:

.

.

Misty02
07-11-2012, 06:04
Police are now saying she was on her knees (http://www.freep.com/article/20120711/NEWS02/207110389/Family-of-woman-shot-at-cop-s-party-looking-for-answers) to explain how Ms. Miller was shot in the chest. To me, that makes it much harder to understand how the trigger was pulled on a weapon in a hip holster when you think about the orientation her hands must have been on his waist. Manipulating the trigger also had to be done through his pants (assume jeans?) and the neoprene material of the holster.

More "answers" begets more questions IMHO.

I'm just going to quit with my assumptions while I'm ahead... but YOU aren't helping! :shocked:

.

Caver 60
07-11-2012, 21:01
Autopsy results showed the angle of the bullet path was slightly downward from front to rear?

Yet the officer didn't touch the IWB carried pistol in the cheap holster?

This just gets more interesting. Can't hardly wait for the official version.

SCmasterblaster
07-12-2012, 13:16
Did you by chance read other posts in this thread?

He was carrying IWB...

Sorry, I didn't see it. IWB? Makes you wonder just how the trigger got pulled.

steveksux
07-12-2012, 18:20
Sorry, I didn't see it. IWB? Makes you wonder just how the trigger got pulled.

The company line at this point is a soft holster, like neoprene I suppose.

Even if the holster is floppy enough to manipulate the trigger, the holster is in your pants. So you have to manipulate the trigger through both the holster and your pants. Unless she had her hands down his pants, I suppose. But he's married, the wife is at the BBQ from what I understand. And the girl didn't know him.

Unless he had pretty flimsy shorts on too, I'm still having a hard time believing it happened as reported.

Randy

Rick305
07-12-2012, 18:39
Something's not right with this story ...

I don't carry $10 uncle mike holsters , but I don't see how a trigger can be pulled while in one ?

I think a worn $200 leather holster would be more dangerous then a blackhawk/um nylon iwb .

I carry only sticky holsters -- every day . My CM9 IWB or pocket ... or my M&P9 with APEX Competition Trigger -- there is no way it can go off period -- unless the trigger is pulled.


This may be a case of a cop showing off and they are trying to put it to the media like "a glock went off".


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

B.Reid
07-12-2012, 20:28
Lets see, the first report is she was pulling at his waist band and the gun went off. If she was on her knees and pulling at his waistband the bullet could strike her at a downward angle front to back. Wonder what was going on?

AquaHull
07-13-2012, 16:45
edited for non-essential content

ATW525
07-14-2012, 09:07
Assuming the story is truthful, I'm thinking that the gun was holstered with either the thumbreak or some clothing lodged in the trigger guard. Girl, on her knees, grabs officer around the waist from behind, which puts downward pressure on the pistol. This causes the obstruction to actuate the trigger and discharge the pistol.

FireForged
07-14-2012, 12:32
<< still not buying the story. Im not suggesting that it wasnt a terrible accident, I just dont buy the story as presented so far.

Turk
07-14-2012, 12:41
The only thing that makes sense to me, after reading all of the articles, is that she was probably on her knees in front of him. That is the only reasonable outcome given the description of the bullet path, IMHO.

X-Concealment
07-14-2012, 12:41
Somebody pulled the trigger. It didn't go off by accident. Either the girl or the cop. I guess you can place your bets on which one it was.

Exactly! Somebody pulled the trigger. While a cheap soft holster didn't help in this story, but try to dry fire your M&P in a soft nylong holster. Not happening!

ADK_40GLKr
07-14-2012, 18:12
I would be lying if I denied some of the positions my mind has conjured up haven't made me smile a tad. Perhaps the explanation is a lot simpler than where my mind has gone. :embarassed:


My toughts exactly, Misty. When I first heard the story on FOX News, I commented to my wife "That must have been some wild party!"

ScottieG59
07-15-2012, 18:41
It is easy to speculate and imagine scenarios. The investigation will have to run its course and hopefully arrive at an acceptable conclusion.

We, who do not have the details of what is known by investigators, will have to wait. In the end, we can only hope to take some lessons learned from this tragic event.

JuneyBooney
07-15-2012, 22:34
Only thing I can think is a shoulder holster that faces the gun directly backwards instead of down, but even then the trigger should have been well-covered. So you're right, not sure how it could've happened.


I agree. The inherent weakness in Glock's design is that center "safety" which is easily caught on things and then they go boom.

Sad story.

AZL
07-16-2012, 00:30
It's a daggum shame the lady was killed.

The truth is, we won't get the whole truth.

It could be nothing more nefarious than the planets aligned in that one split second to create "the perfect storm" and confluence of events that led to tragedy.

BUT...knowing PD brass as I do...some butt is being covered somewhere.

mknpwr
07-16-2012, 05:14
I agree. The inherent weakness in Glock's design is that center "safety" which is easily caught on things and then they go boom.

Sad story.

Two things, first, according to the story it wasn't a Glock that he was carrying. Second, guns dont go bang unless you pull the trigger or there is something wrong with the gun.

I'm willing to bet that there was something else going on before I believe that a cop was carrying a gun that just "malfunctioned" at that point in time. If someone wants to prove me wrong fine, I can handle it.

Someone was killed, for whatever reason with this officers weapon and that sucks. It just changed a whole lot of lives for the worse.

RussP
07-16-2012, 05:40
When there is more than speculation to discuss, vafish, would you please go ahead and start a new thread?

Thanks...