Dawsonville, GA 2012 Debriefing & Photo Thread [Archive] - Glock Talk

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SARDG
07-13-2012, 20:24
Please post your stories and photos here. :wavey:


Danny's away for his birthday, so I started the thread...

SARDG
07-13-2012, 20:48
I'll start...

Roadkill was correct - the ranges drain very well. Everything is in good shape. I have no idea where all that water went, but no mud or standing water at all at the stages I looked at.

I've forgotten how many preregistered... 400+ though.

There was an RO briefing this afternoon by Scott G. and then the ROs who were there all shot. I shot 3 Divisions but will still use RO Bucks and shoot UNL and MajorSub, probably on Sunday. Nothing remarkable for me but SubCompact was my best Division so far.

Tomorrow is another RO brief. I should be ROing the 'M' at the top of the hill tomorrow.

Kitty

SCC
07-14-2012, 14:57
was there today and missed you !!! great match and want to thank all the ro's and glock for such a great time ...

triggerjerker
07-14-2012, 15:21
sorry

Njanear
07-14-2012, 15:30
The ranges were in great shape - the drive to the 'parking area' was mighty rough though due to some of the ruts - when taken carefully, it was fully fully do-able in a big truck (I did see some little cars bouncing all around). :wow:

It was a great time. We got there at 8:20 and they started cranking away at 9:10 on our Five To Glock - we finished around 11:45. We did learn from Griffin - put your names on the sign-in rosters as soon as you can and let the squadding process work for you. :cool: We shot the 5TG first (they used an interesting X configuration - 2 up close, 1 in the center and 2 in the back), then Glock M (with 1 standing steel vs. 3 drop-down poppers) and then a clean run on the Plates. I didn't set the world on fire but did OK - I met my goal of no Mikes and set a new personal best of 87 with my G17.

The ROs did a really good job on the squadding, running the stages and such (to include pasting where needed). Paster activity was a little lacking at times but at one point, it was refreshing to see the 5TG RO turn to some fellows that were kicked back in the shade and 'ask' for their assistance in pasting - they all jumped up and gang-rushed the field. :supergrin:

Although I may not win any prizes for my shooting, we lucked out at the Glock Games - my son won a keychain, a coffee cup and a travel mug while I walked away with a neck lanyard and a certificate good for 1 year of GSSF. :number1:

Njanear
07-14-2012, 15:36
Forgot to mention that Glock had samples of all of their GEN4s today for everyone to fondle. I finally got the chance to hold the GEN4 G20 & GEN4 G34 and like them both (but can't get either right now :crying:). They were also handing out free keychains, patches and stickers - another nice act from my favorite handgun manufacturer.

PS: No Glock carbines on display though. :tongueout:

SARDG
07-14-2012, 16:27
We ran 424 through today. There are 557 total registered, but we should add a few tomorrow. Basically a gorgeous day. Sun was out all day and it got a little toasty in the afternoon but there was a cool breeze all day. Started raining a bit at 430 but the sun stayed out and we were all finishing up anyway.

I worked M in the AM and 5 in the PM. Both were running very well I thought. One RO on another 5 (who attended the Friday RO briefing) apparently got creative and had tons of entries on the tree (doubling up, rather than one entry per clip for 12 maximum) AND had the BIG STACK of scoresheets in his hand. One of our favorite GTers here snitched on him (not me, BTW) and Scott went down with the range MD to square him away. I just don't get it... 30 people can sit in on the same RO briefing and somebody will always come away with a better way to do squadding. WRONG! And I know everything was covered because I was a genuine PITA and kept raising my hand in that Friday briefing to make certain some of these issues we talk about on GT were explained.

Saw lots of old folks, er... old friends and met a few new folks from GT. I'll shoot UNL and MajorSub tomorrow but it should be a bit less busy.

Kitty

S.Kargoh
07-14-2012, 16:38
It just doesn't work. At some point, it has to be "called".


_/\^--__________________________( flatline)





:P

SARDG
07-14-2012, 16:47
was there today and missed you !!! great match and want to thank all the ro's and glock for such a great time ...
I was avoiding you Steve.... :supergrin: Pretty much at M 'til lunch and 5 after - both near the top of the hill.

During some of these matches, one can go for the entire weekend without seeing folks that you know are there.

freeman101
07-14-2012, 16:54
Ok; the range was Awesome! I shot my first GSSF match today; Now i'm home but confused. How should I unpack my range bag? Is there a particular order you folks have found that works best for you? If so, please share your secrets.

SARDG
07-14-2012, 16:57
It just doesn't work. At some point, it has to be "called".

_/\^--__________________________( flatline)



:P
We had only one RO insist on doing it his way. I heard of no other issues. You lead folks to water, you buy them books, you send them to school... if all that doesn't work maybe we need a lifetime RO ban for those individuals because there is always the chance that a lot of other important information was also missed in the briefing.

I believe everything is on track now, but this brings up something important - if, as a shooter, you notice something that needs fixing... go find a GSSF Rangemaster and ask them to fix it.

SARDG
07-14-2012, 17:00
Ok; the range was Awesome! I shot my first GSSF match today; Now i'm home but confused. How should I unpack my range bag? Is there a particular order you folks have found that works best for you? If so, please share your secrets.
Just pick it up and hold it upside down over the open dishwasher and dump everything out. This will give you the opportunity to run all that stuff through with your dishes and get it real clean for your next match.

bryandover
07-14-2012, 17:31
I shot today and thought everything went pretty well with a good staff of ROs on hand. The best I could do was 40.37 in comp. On my last run on the 5tg in Major Sub I shot a D and while looking at it I shot another D on the next target :crying: that turned a good 33 into a ok 39. Oh well is anybody ever totally happy with their scores when they leave. All the stages was set up in cowboy towns and made me want a pair of chaps and a ten gallon hat. :supergrin:

Bryan

emtjr928
07-14-2012, 17:50
Look forward to being there tomorrow morning!

S.Kargoh
07-14-2012, 18:43
I shot today and thought everything went pretty well with a good staff of ROs on hand. The best I could do was 40.37 in comp. On my last run on the 5tg in Major Sub I shot a D and while looking at it I shot another D on the next target :crying: that turned a good 33 into a ok 39. Oh well is anybody ever totally happy with their scores when they leave. All the stages was set up in cowboy towns and made me want a pair of chaps and a ten gallon hat. :supergrin:

Bryan


40.37?????

Wow! I'd be happy with that for 2 outof the three stages.

Crazy fast.

PM720
07-14-2012, 21:12
40.37?????

Wow! I'd be happy with that for 2 outof the three stages.

Crazy fast.

I'd be happy with DOUBLE that!! :faint::rofl:

Scott

kyglockshooter
07-15-2012, 05:44
Awesome Day. We made it onsite by about 8:30A. Talked and picked up entries, my son and I followed the best practices of signing in at all stages, we were shooting by 9:15 at Glock M (moved really fast). Went to 5 to Glock where we saw some learning taking place, some gentle persuasion and visiting might have helped the process. The squadding process smoothed out over time and we were done by 11:45 or so...off to plates. ONE COMMENT I AM NOT COMPLAINING - we were doing best practice of pasting after a shooter and eventually told only RO's would paste, never seen this before and I hope as the match wore on participants were allowed to go down range and paste rather than being spectators. The plates were very well run we were done shooting by 12:15...this is our best in and done ever.

Fellowship and visiting were GREAT...met more glocktalkers to put a face with a name, learned there are more than a few of us retired military or reservist participating. Made long lasting relationships with RO's that I'll only see once a year most likely but we will pickup right where we left off. Finally, if you are shooting on Sunday find IRA he is the match director, he is a spitting image for Donald Sutherland as Oddball in Kelly's Hero's and a hoot to visit with.

Great venue, Great RO's, Great weather, Great fellowship - Awesome Day. See you next year....

Glockrunner
07-15-2012, 09:09
Awesome Day. We made it onsite by about 8:30A. Talked and picked up entries, my son and I followed the best practices of signing in at all stages, we were shooting by 9:15 at Glock M (moved really fast). Went to 5 to Glock where we saw some learning taking place, some gentle persuasion and visiting might have helped the process. The squadding process smoothed out over time and we were done by 11:45 or so...off to plates. ONE COMMENT I AM NOT COMPLAINING - we were doing best practice of pasting after a shooter and eventually told only RO's would paste, never seen this before and I hope as the match wore on participants were allowed to go down range and paste rather than being spectators. The plates were very well run we were done shooting by 12:15...this is our best in and done ever.

Fellowship and visiting were GREAT...met more glocktalkers to put a face with a name, learned there are more than a few of us retired military or reservist participating. Made long lasting relationships with RO's that I'll only see once a year most likely but we will pickup right where we left off. Finally, if you are shooting on Sunday find IRA he is the match director, he is a spitting image for Donald Sutherland as Oddball in Kelly's Hero's and a hoot to visit with.

Great venue, Great RO's, Great weather, Great fellowship - Awesome Day. See you next year....

I actually heard an RO ask another RO, "Are you a right or left handed paster?" Then a brief description of how the sequence in which the targets would ONLY be scored and pasted. I believe this was being done in fear that a bystander might paste a target before it got scored. But I think it all worked out by the days end.

Situations like telling the competitors NOT to paste can really confuse the system for other stages too. As was the situation were we had double the amount of RO's at one 5 to Glock stage and no reliefs for other stages when lunch came around. There was talk of closing a double setup of the Glock M for lack of reliefs after the supposed lunchtime because RO's hadn't eaten. But worked it's self out as far as I know.

Very friendly group of volunteers working every where I went. BEAUTIFUL DAY for a match. Overall it ran much smoother than some and let's not forget the vendors!

We had games to play, very reasonably priced merchandise and Armorers to fix anything. GSSF Staff was frirndly & "Johnnie On the Spot" for any situations early on. Thanks Erine, Mark, & Scott for the hussle you always provide and make this event look easy!

I would like to extend a well done to Mark & Don and all the volunteers, for a match well done; I do hope Sunday brings you to your goal!

fosters3
07-15-2012, 09:25
Shot yesterday and as always had a great time. I shot 3 divisions for the first time and tripled the fun! Left a plate standinging in one ( I am sure it went down and popped back up again) and had a mic in another division to put me out of the race. We'll see how I do in Am Civ. Every time I shoot a Glock match it reminds me of how great a sport we are in and the outstanding people that participate. There is no other place to make newbies and the experience veterans feel comfortable and have a blast. The range was great, the people were great, and the games were fun as well. We were in and out in less than four hours. The key is the squadding and adherence to it.

I personally appreciate all of the volunteers at these matches to make them SAFE and fun for all.

Great shooting with you Njanear!

SCC
07-15-2012, 09:47
I was avoiding you Steve.... :supergrin: Pretty much at M 'til lunch and 5 after - both near the top of the hill.

During some of these matches, one can go for the entire weekend without seeing folks that you know are there.
:crying::crying::crying::supergrin: :wavey:

legacy38
07-15-2012, 11:32
Volgrad and I arrived at the range just before 0900 and picked up our labels. We were done shooting at 10:38. We started with 5-Glock, then the M, and then the plates.

I shot my G37 in Heavy Metal and the G19 I won at Dawsonville last year in Guardian. I missed my monthly IDPA match this past month; so, it's been close to two months since I have done any shooting. I was pleased with my Heavy Metal run, but I was disappointed in my Guardian run. I couldn't get it going on the plates. I shot an 81.88 in Guardian and an 85.04 in Heavy Metal.

As for the match, it did seem that somebody did a good job of beating the squadding rules into the ROs heads as they were being followed pretty well.

There was one issue for me on the plates. They called me up to shoot, and I told the RO that I wanted to shoot Heavy Metal first. After I was done shooting, I found that they had written my scores on my Guardian sheet. I didn't think it was a big deal and suggested they just make a note on the labels. However, it seems that an RO from the other side of bay had grabbed my sheet off of the tree and had called for me to shoot over there.

The RO who ran me had words with the ROs on the other side of the bay leading to one of the ROs from over there taking exception and having a few more choice words right back. It ended up with Scott being called to the bay. Thankfully, I was done shooting by the time it got heated. I did speak to Scott back at the house and told him what I had observed. I go the impression that the two ROs peacefully settled their dispute and went back to buisiness.


Five-to-Glock setup:
http://i.imgur.com/iLjih.jpg


Glock-M setup:
http://i.imgur.com/0DTt1.jpg

Justin1911
07-15-2012, 12:04
I wasn't able to be there this weekend, but did help out as needed thurs and Friday. Shot with the RO 's rather poorly on Friday I might add. Had 5x 5tg, 4x plates and 5x M's set up, all one more than last year. So I hope to hear of short wait times. Match gets bigger each year, I'm glad to have been involved since it started. Kyshooter - your buddy Ira was not the match director btw. Phil and Don were co-match directors and did a helluva job as usual. Hope to be back for the full weekend next year

emtjr928
07-15-2012, 13:37
My Thanks to River Bend Gun Club, GSSF staff, Vendors and all of the volunteers. Had a very enjoyable drive up this morning and a very stress free match. Pleasure to be in a nice setting and enjoying the sport and the people. Look forward to the next one.

freeman101
07-15-2012, 17:14
I only have a Glock 17. Could I have shot it in subcompact since it is the only Glock I have?

frankt
07-15-2012, 17:58
I arrived about the same time as legacy38 posted above. We had preregistered and it took about three minutes to get our scoring stickers.
We did not rush, took out time loading magazines and finished exactly at 10:38 also almost.
My friend, shooting my G26, noticed the tritium front sight coming loose during a string on the plate rack. About that time it jumped ship.
The RO's coordinated with the other rack and went cold for about 3 minutes and by some miracle they found the sight.
We took a break and visited the Glock Armorer on installed the sight and added a little locktite.
It took about 20 minutes but they worked my friend back into the rotation so he could shoot his last two plate runs.
Best run match I have shot so far, I was just on the verge of not shooting GSSF after three bad experiences in a row with improper squadding and extreme waits on the last matches I shot.
It was a pleasure, very short wait times, squadding done right, plenty of RO,s and everything was just great.
It did seem like a smaller crowd than last year but I don't know the numbers.
Thanks GSSF,Riverbend and all who worked to make this a good match.

Njanear
07-15-2012, 18:11
Great shooting with you Njanear!

Great shooting with you, buddy - if you weren't in the money this time, you were pretty darn close. I will have to send you a photo of TBone with his travel mug - that was the highlight of his day. :supergrin:

mleeber
07-15-2012, 18:16
Well, another match in the books! Thanks to all who came to shoot, great to see some old friends and make some new ones! Don and Phil did a great job running things and holy mackerel...we had to have 100 or more ROs for the match - blue shirts everywhere!!! Huge thanks to the ROs who gave us their weekend and endured some heat, some rain, and then some more heat! Did not hit 600 this time but I think the forecast was working against us all weekend; I have sent Mother Nature a certificate for a Glock hoping I can buy her off next year! Thanks to Alan for bringing out the Glock laser and side games and Scott, Mark and Erin for keeping everything running smoothly. I am shooting for 1000 guns next year so please put us on you calendar!
Thanks!
Mark

unclebob
07-15-2012, 18:18
I only have a Glock 17. Could I have shot it in subcompact since it is the only Glock I have?


http://gssfonline.com/pdf/forms/RegForm_fillin.pdf

Melissa5
07-15-2012, 18:22
First let me compliment Riverbend for putting on such a great match. This is one of the nicer ranges that I have been to. There are paved walkways between the bays and real bathrooms...not just port-a-potties. Also, the RO's were very nice and helpful. Thank you so much for volunteering your time and effort.

Now, my performance was not good and my racegun wasn't running right...could have been my reloads. It was not going into battery and then a case got stuck in the barrel. After that, I bagged it and called it a day. I had a clean run with it on the plates, but could not finish the other 2 stages.

I shot a mag through Kitty's racegun on the practice place rack. What a nice gun! I think I like the red dot mounted in the dovetail better than on a mount. Thank you for letting me try it, Kitty!

Last, I got to do the hot brass dance after getting a case down my shirt. :devildance:

SARDG
07-15-2012, 19:34
I only have a Glock 17. Could I have shot it in subcompact since it is the only Glock I have?

You've had your fun - now go crap on someone else's thread(s).

SARDG
07-15-2012, 19:45
Awesome Day... ONE COMMENT I AM NOT COMPLAINING - we were doing best practice of pasting after a shooter and eventually told only RO's would paste, never seen this before and I hope as the match wore on participants were allowed to go down range and paste rather than being spectators...

Great venue, Great RO's, Great weather, Great fellowship - Awesome Day. See you next year....
You hit the one stage that was having a rough start - but as Glockrunner said, everything got worked out shortly thereafter.

The shooters should absolutely paste. It gets them involved in the process and it allows new shooters to look at the targets closely. All new shooters are ROs-in-training.

BTW kgs, nice meeting you and your son this weekend. Thanks for introducing yourself.

SARDG
07-15-2012, 20:08
...Best run match I have shot so far, I was just on the verge of not shooting GSSF after three bad experiences in a row with improper squadding and extreme waits on the last matches I shot.
It was a pleasure, very short wait times, squadding done right, plenty of RO,s and everything was just great...
When Kitty says the sqadding was done right, you can take it to the bank! I visited every stage and didn't note one single squadding issue - except the single aforementioned 5tG on Saturday AM.

Apparently Phil and Don had RO briefings on Thursday, then Scott G. and Mark R. again on Friday for the club ROs (that I also attended), then another on Sat AM for newly arriving ROs.

Kitty

SARDG
07-15-2012, 20:18
Well, another match in the books! Thanks to all who came to shoot, great to see some old friends and make some new ones! Don and Phil did a great job running things...

Did not hit 600 this time but I think the forecast was working against us all weekend...

Mark
Thanks for everything Mark, and of course thank you to Don and Phil. I'm not used to seeing Phil work that hard... :supergrin:

Maybe you didn't hear the final numbers but the total who actually shot was 657. Last year you had 629 so it's a new record for your club. I think the weather forecast hurt you a bit, but aside from a couple of quickly passing thundershowers, it wasn't bad at all. There was a little breeze all weekend.

Kitty

SARDG
07-15-2012, 20:31
First let me compliment Riverbend for putting on such a great match. This is one of the nicer ranges that I have been to.

Now, my performance was not good and my racegun wasn't running right...could have been my reloads. It was not going into battery and then a case got stuck in the barrel. After that, I bagged it and called it a day. I had a clean run with it on the plates, but could not finish the other 2 stages.

I shot a mag through Kitty's racegun on the practice place rack. What a nice gun! I think I like the red dot mounted in the dovetail better than on a mount. Thank you for letting me try it, Kitty!
In retrospect Melissa, you should have used my racer to finish your stages. We know you can switch guns if one becomes inoperable as I switched to my stock G17 in Reevesville when your racegun I was shooting kicked the bucket there.

k

bigtimelarry
07-15-2012, 20:35
It was extremely organized and ran perfect..
Started to really rain hard today about 1pm though, i was done by then.. Great Time..

SARDG
07-15-2012, 21:18
It was extremely organized and ran perfect..
Started to really rain hard today about 1pm though, i was done by then.. Great Time..
That rain lasted about 20 or 30 minutes I suppose, but we bagged the targets. Still it didn't seem like anyone wanted to shoot for awhile until we finally got a couple of volunteers from the squad. It's funny, one of the ROs at the adjoining setup in the same bay said that we would ruin the bags if we shot through them and believed they were there only to cover the targets while it's raining and and while everyone sets out the rain; then remove the bags and start shooting again. I guess Scott didn't cover bagging the targets and shooting and I sure didn't think to bring it up.

Only a couple of shooters wanted to shoot during that quickey storm - every else waited.

mleeber
07-15-2012, 21:20
Yeah Kitty, you are right, it was north of 600... I guess I was too focused on catching South River. I am a competitive sort and since the first match 5 years ago I have been trying to one-up my peers both with numbers and the shooter's experience. In fact, I think all the Clubs that host a GSSF match have a little of that competitive spirit which helps improve every match every year. Still...looking for 1000 plus next year! :supergrin:

At the end of the day though it is all about the competitors having a great time in a safe environment so as long as ya'll had fun 100 or 1000 is less important.

Once again, hats off to the ROs who made 600+ feel like 100! Made it easy for Don, Phil and me!!!

Thanks!
Mark

SARDG
07-15-2012, 21:31
Yeah Kitty, you are right, it was north of 600... I guess I was too focused on catching South River. I am a competitive sort and since the first match 5 years ago I have been trying to one-up my peers both with numbers and the shooter's experience. In fact, I think all the Clubs that host a GSSF match have a little of that competitive spirit which helps improve every match every year. Thanks!

Mark
You betcha... An unnamed shooting buddy from Griffin sent me a text late this afternoon asking about Dawsonville numbers. :supergrin:

Walk Soft
07-15-2012, 21:48
I met my goal of no Mikes and set a new personal best of 87 with my G17.:number1:

What is a Mike?

SCC
07-15-2012, 22:11
What is a Mike?
a miss on the target ..:wavey:

SARDG
07-15-2012, 22:16
What is a Mike?
A Mike is a 'miss' - 10 seconds added.

The Mike is Mike G35. :)

'Mike' comes from the military phonetic alphabet in which an M is Mike, as in Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, etc.

ETA: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/alphabet.htm

Don't even think about the typical LEO phonetic alphabet which has no resemblance to the mil.

PM720
07-15-2012, 23:49
I only have a Glock 17. Could I have shot it in subcompact since it is the only Glock I have?


Yes, you could but you have to use a G26 barrel in your 17 slide though. Oh, and the G26 mags as well. Sorry, almost forgot that detail. :whistling:

Scott

Melissa5
07-16-2012, 05:22
In retrospect Melissa, you should have used my racer to finish your stages. We know you can switch guns if one becomes inoperable as I switched to my stock G17 in Reevesville when your racegun I was shooting kicked the bucket there.

k

Dang! I forgot that I could do that. :crying:

lethal tupperwa
07-16-2012, 05:51
I only have a Glock 17. Could I have shot it in subcompact since it is the only Glock I have?


all you need to do is READ the registration!

BamaTrooper
07-16-2012, 06:05
'Mike' comes from the military phonetic alphabet in which an M is Mike, as in Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, etc.

...Don't even think about the typical LEO phonetic alphabet which has no resemblance to the mil.

Well, since it was mentioned...Mary, Nora, Ocean.
Kitty, Maybe we should have misses for male shooters be Mikes and misses for females be Marys:tongueout:

Don At PC
07-16-2012, 06:24
Great job Mark, Phil and Don. Y'al host a Really First Class Match every year.Thanks for all your hard work and personal attention to make it a Safe and Fun weekend for all. I tried to give a personal Thanks to all the RO's I was in contact with but to any that I missed in person"Thank You". I fully intend to be back next year and may even be available to help work the match with you.

Don

SARDG
07-16-2012, 07:38
Well, since it was mentioned...Mary, Nora, Ocean.
Kitty, Maybe we should have misses for male shooters be Mikes and misses for females be Marys:tongueout:
Your mind is always racing Bama... what a great idea... :whistling:

legacy38
07-16-2012, 07:42
Well, since it was mentioned...Mary, Nora, Ocean.
Kitty, Maybe we should have misses for male shooters be Mikes and misses for females be Marys:tongueout:

Only if you want to use the left coast way...

Ocean_glocker
07-16-2012, 08:36
I had a good time shooting and ROing this weekend. I shot like crap on saturday, the plates being me demise. But the highlight was having my wife come out and RO and shoot and she had a great time!

One thing I will say in regard to the Loacl Gun Club, I loved how quick everything was broked down after the last shooters wrapped up. Everyone pulled together and we were out of there at a reasonable time...

Good times!

Your mind is always racing Bama... what a great idea... :whistling:
Maybe for the Reevesville Ladies match... :embarassed:

Roadkill_751
07-16-2012, 09:52
Well, another match in the books! Thanks to all who came to shoot, great to see some old friends and make some new ones! Don and Phil did a great job running things and holy mackerel...we had to have 100 or more ROs for the match - blue shirts everywhere!!! Huge thanks to the ROs who gave us their weekend and endured some heat, some rain, and then some more heat! Did not hit 600 this time but I think the forecast was working against us all weekend; I have sent Mother Nature a certificate for a Glock hoping I can buy her off next year! Thanks to Alan for bringing out the Glock laser and side games and Scott, Mark and Erin for keeping everything running smoothly. I am shooting for 1000 guns next year so please put us on you calendar!
Thanks!
Mark

Now that I had some rest and awake!

First of all thanks for all of the GSSF competitors that came to shoot with us at River Bend Gun Club! I know during the match the weather conditions was less than favorable at times. (This is North Georgia weather, and we even had a meteorologist as an RO :whistling:) I was able to talk to old GSSF friends and make new ones too.

The RO's were exceptional and kept the match running as smoothly as possible. We could not have have a match of this caliber without the dedication and determination of the RO's that took their time this past weekend to make this match a very successful match. Don and I could not have done this without the RO's.

As we were planning the match, I made it a point to make sure that all of the RO's were informed on the match and make sure they were in the loop. I also made sure that the RO briefings were conducted well before the match began so their would be no confusion on the GSSF processes. We began to setup on Thursday afternoon and finished up on Friday. I also had the RO's who wanted to shoot for score could shoot on Friday after setup. This was well received by the RO's it as helped out during the match.

I want to thank GSSF Professional (Alan, Scott, Erin and Mark) and the Glock Armorers who came to River Bend to help on another record breaking match.

I know that I have left someone off the list, if I did please accept my apologies. Again thanks on a great match!

Hopefully, I will get to see you next year!

Phil

P.S. I knew I forgot someone. The food vendor at the match, had some excellent BBQ and grilled chicken. These guys are a local church mens group that BBQ together. Thanks!

Roadkill_751
07-16-2012, 09:59
I'm not used to seeing Phil work that hard... :supergrin:

Kitty


Yeah, I am still tired.:yawn: I can't wait to Mobile match to watch Bama work!!!!

Thanks for coming and helping out!

lethal tupperwa
07-16-2012, 10:02
Doesn't Bamma work by telling EDE to take care of it?

Ocean_glocker
07-16-2012, 10:10
Isn't this how it's supposed to work?

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af110/guitarmaster03/weather-rope3.jpg

Walk Soft
07-16-2012, 11:02
[QUOTE=SARDG;19200156]A Mike is a 'miss' - 10 seconds added.

The Mike is Mike G35. :)

'Mike' comes from the military phonetic alphabet in which an M is Mike, as in Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, etc.

Oh,ok.I didn't know if you meant the phonetic or the person.I follow these threads because soon I'll have a job which will allow me to attend GSSF matches and I remember how Mike35 dove head first into the sport with multiple race guns.I also remember how he was a lack luster shooter at first.Did he ever improve?Did he attend?

Melissa5
07-16-2012, 11:11
[QUOTE=SARDG;19200156]A Mike is a 'miss' - 10 seconds added.

The Mike is Mike G35. :)

'Mike' comes from the military phonetic alphabet in which an M is Mike, as in Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, etc.

Oh,ok.I didn't know if you meant the phonetic or the person.I follow these threads because soon I'll have a job which will allow me to attend GSSF matches and I remember how Mike35 dove head first into the sport with multiple race guns.I also remember how he was a lack luster shooter at first.Did he ever improve?Did he attend?

I don't know about his GSSF scores, but he recently won a local USPSA match. :)

SARDG
07-16-2012, 14:58
I had a good time shooting and ROing this weekend... ...the highlight was having my wife come out and RO and shoot and she had a great time!

Maybe for the Reevesville Ladies match... :embarassed:
Maybe so... but you come to RO and bring your wife to shoot!

BamaTrooper
07-16-2012, 15:03
Maybe so... but you come to RO and bring your wife to shoot!

But was he wearing the Alabama Holster Co gear he won last year?

SARDG
07-16-2012, 15:35
But was he wearing the Alabama Holster Co gear he won last year?
At least he has one... I don't have an AHC holster. :crying: Mark Ramsey from GSSF wanted to see an AHC holster since he keeps hearing about them and sees all the AHC teams come through. But no... Kitty doesn't have an Alabama Holster... :faint:

Ocean_glocker
07-16-2012, 15:38
At least he has one... I don't have an AHC holster. :crying: Mark Ramsey from GSSF wanted to see an AHC holster since he keeps hearing about them and sees all the AHC teams come through. But no... Kitty doesn't have an Alabama Holster... :faint:

But was he wearing the Alabama Holster Co gear he won last year?

I WAS!! gun and the mag holder.. :)

SARDG
07-16-2012, 15:40
Yeah, I am still tired.:yawn: I can't wait to Mobile match to watch Bama work!!!!

Thanks for coming and helping out!
I'm coming in a day early in case he needs any adult supervision while he's working.

You're very welcome Phil. Nice range... good people.

BamaTrooper
07-16-2012, 15:42
At least he has one... I don't have an AHC holster. :crying: Mark Ramsey from GSSF wanted to see an AHC holster since he keeps hearing about them and sees all the AHC teams come through. But no... Kitty doesn't have an Alabama Holster... :faint:

When the boss gets back from vacation in gun unfriendly Yankee land, I will get him on yours. Righ Handed to fit a 9mm frame? Send me your belt width, 1 1/2 etc...

BamaTrooper
07-16-2012, 15:43
Yeah, I am still tired.:yawn: I can't wait to Mobile match to watch Bama work!!!!

Thanks for coming and helping out!

I'll be the one in the sedan chair pointing out stuff for others to do.:tongueout:

SARDG
07-16-2012, 15:59
I'll be the one in the sedan chair pointing out stuff for others to do.:tongueout:
In that case, I'll be in a day late...

BamaTrooper
07-16-2012, 16:08
In that case, I'll be in a day late...

Verily I say unto thee, Yeomen perform thy duty to thy Liege lest he become angry reprimand ye most vociferously on the interwebz. :director:

SARDG
07-16-2012, 16:17
Verily I say unto thee, Yeomen perform thy duty to thy Liege lest he become angry reprimand ye most vociferously on the interwebz. :director:
Hmmm... if Phil would have talked dirty like that, he would have had s lot more volunteers. :supergrin:

misunderestimated
07-16-2012, 19:30
The ranges were in great shape - the drive to the 'parking area' was mighty rough though due to some of the ruts - when taken carefully, it was fully fully do-able in a big truck (I did see some little cars bouncing all around). :wow:

It was a great time. We got there at 8:20 and they started cranking away at 9:10 on our Five To Glock - we finished around 11:45. We did learn from Griffin - put your names on the sign-in rosters as soon as you can and let the squadding process work for you. :cool: We shot the 5TG first (they used an interesting X configuration - 2 up close, 1 in the center and 2 in the back), then Glock M (with 1 standing steel vs. 3 drop-down poppers) and then a clean run on the Plates. I didn't set the world on fire but did OK - I met my goal of no Mikes and set a new personal best of 87 with my G17.

The ROs did a really good job on the squadding, running the stages and such (to include pasting where needed). Paster activity was a little lacking at times but at one point, it was refreshing to see the 5TG RO turn to some fellows that were kicked back in the shade and 'ask' for their assistance in pasting - they all jumped up and gang-rushed the field. :supergrin:

Although I may not win any prizes for my shooting, we lucked out at the Glock Games - my son won a keychain, a coffee cup and a travel mug while I walked away with a neck lanyard and a certificate good for 1 year of GSSF. :number1:


What are glock games

SCC
07-16-2012, 19:54
What are glock games LITTLE GAMES !!! that glock sets up to win prizes 1.00 buck a game :wavey:

SARDG
07-16-2012, 23:17
I finally added up all my Divisions - which were generally unremarkable. 5tG was kicking my posterior this weekened. I shot the G26 better in SubC than I did the G17 in MasterStk or Comp. And I got my personal best GSSF time ever, finally breaking 70 (69.48) with my new racer.

After developing and then loading and trying about 150-200 flawless rounds for the racer and being happy with what I had, I went ahead and loaded about 600-700 rounds and found in Steel practice the Wednesday before GSSF, that they were now not running the gun. I cleaned the gun and checked it but threw some factory loads in my gear to take to the match just in case - and ended up using factory to shoot in UNL. I'll have to figure out what happened now that I'm back. :crying:

Scott - those are your loads to use for Conyers in my racer. :supergrin:

S.Kargoh
07-17-2012, 00:04
Have you tried gun butter lube or slide glide? I wonder if different lubes would help.

nice shootin!

PM720
07-17-2012, 00:54
I finally added up all my Divisions - which were generally unremarkable. 5tG was kicking my posterior this weekened. I shot the G26 better in SubC than I did the G17 in MasterStk or Comp. And I got my personal best GSSF time ever, finally breaking 70 (69.48) with my new racer.

After developing and then loading and trying about 150-200 flawless rounds for the racer and being happy with what I had, I went ahead and loaded about 600-700 rounds and found in Steel practice the Wednesday before GSSF, that they were now not running the gun. I cleaned the gun and checked it but threw some factory loads in my gear to take to the match just in case - and ended up using factory to shoot in UNL. I'll have to figure out what happened now that I'm back. :crying:


Scott - those are your loads to use for Conyers in my racer. :supergrin:

Rut roh! :faint::cool:

Scott

SARDG
07-17-2012, 09:12
Have you tried gun butter lube or slide glide? I wonder if different lubes would help.
I bought some Gun Butter about 3 months ago because I was curious. It's still in my armorer's kit where I put it then.

The gun was running with common CLP for lube, as it should. I know these race guns are teeter-tottering on failure, but a freshly cleaned and CLP'ed gun (that ran fine one week before) should still run on CLP.

I'm going to measure the gross weight of samples of these reloads and then pull some apart to see if the charge is correct. It's acting like a low powder charge.

I've got about 2 months to figure it out for Conyers. Scott doesn't want to shoot factory rounds! :supergrin:

unclebob
07-17-2012, 09:28
I bought some Gun Butter about 3 months ago because I was curious. It's still in my armorer's kit where I put it then.

The gun was running with common CLP for lube, as it should. I know these race guns are teeter-tottering on failure, but a freshly cleaned and CLP'ed gun (that ran fine one week before) should still run on CLP.

I'm going to measure the gross weight of samples of these reloads and then pull some apart to see if the charge is correct. It's acting like a low powder charge.

I've got about 2 months to figure it out for Conyers. Scott doesn't want to shoot factory rounds! :supergrin:

You might have to do what I did and get the dot off the slide.

SARDG
07-17-2012, 09:44
You might have to do what I did and get the dot off the slide.
Absolutely NOT. That's why I bought that gun and why I love it. The slide is milled to a fraction of its stock and former weight anyway, and the RSA has been changed.

S.Kargoh
07-17-2012, 10:58
I bought some gun butter a few months ago too, out of curiosity.

I
have never cared for CLP finding it lackluster in all three categories.



Prior to the gunbutter I used an automotive assembly lube (moly graphite grease, iirc). Used it for 10 years successfully. I like it. Just tried the gun butter. Seems no better or worse than my old grease.

Melissa5
07-17-2012, 11:03
I'm beginning to think that raceguns are more trouble than they are worth and I am thinking seriously about taking off the comp and putting the stock barrel and RSA back in it. Maybe it's just my reloads. IDK, but it is highly frustrating when the reloads I built for my racegun don't work in it, but will work in my stock Glocks.

SARDG
07-17-2012, 11:15
I'm beginning to think that raceguns are more trouble than they are worth and I am thinking seriously about taking off the comp and putting the stock barrel and RSA back in it. Maybe it's just my reloads. IDK, but it is highly frustrating when the reloads I built for my racegun don't work in it, but will work in my stock Glocks.
Then it's your reloads Melissa. Any ol' Glock will run on factory loads - that's no fun! :supergrin:

My racegun reloads are noticeably softer shooters than those factory loads you (and I) shot in my racer this weekend. Oops... too soft I guess. ;)

Race guns do walk a thin line though - too much modified 'stuff' in 'em.

Melissa5
07-17-2012, 13:04
I wonder if a 17C would run factory ammo or do they require a special load?

SARDG
07-17-2012, 13:16
I wonder if a 17C would run factory ammo or do they require a special load?
Cs run fine on factory loads. There are no Gen 4 C models though, and word is, there won't be.

Melissa5
07-17-2012, 13:20
Cs run fine on factory loads. There are no Gen 4 C models though, and word is, there won't be.

I could put the Gen 3 compensated slide & barrel on my Gen 2 racegun frame and set the bays on fire. :rofl:

SARDG
07-17-2012, 13:35
I could put the Gen 3 compensated slide & barrel on my Gen 2 racegun frame and set the bays on fire. :rofl:
Wanna race?? :supergrin:

BamaTrooper
07-17-2012, 13:36
I bought some Gun Butter about 3 months ago because I was curious. It's still in my armorer's kit where I put it then.

The gun was running with common CLP for lube, as it should. I know these race guns are teeter-tottering on failure, but a freshly cleaned and CLP'ed gun (that ran fine one week before) should still run on CLP.

I'm going to measure the gross weight of samples of these reloads and then pull some apart to see if the charge is correct. It's acting like a low powder charge.

I've got about 2 months to figure it out for Conyers. Scott doesn't want to shoot factory rounds! :supergrin:

We're supposed to lube the guns? Maybe that is what I am doing wrong.

BamaTrooper
07-17-2012, 13:37
I wonder if a 17C would run factory ammo or do they require a special load?

My 17C runs on Monarch steel, factory stuff right now.

Ocean_glocker
07-17-2012, 13:44
LITTLE GAMES !!! that glock sets up to win prizes 1.00 buck a game :wavey:
I heard people mention this... I was there all weekend and I missed it.. Guess I was working to hard. I like to take every chance I can get to win Glock stuff..

Melissa5
07-17-2012, 13:55
Hey Ocean glocker, it was nice to meet you at Dawsonville. I also missed the little games.

OK...just bought a 17C and will be shooting fire from all directions at Conyers. :supergrin: Anyone want to buy a Lonewolf barrel & slide, Carver 4 port comp, guide rod, and 12 lb spring? :embarassed:

BamaTrooper
07-17-2012, 14:11
Hey Ocean glocker, it was nice to meet you at Dawsonville. I also missed the little games.

OK...just bought a 17C and will be shooting fire from all directions at Conyers. :supergrin: Anyone want to buy a Lonewolf barrel & slide, Carver 4 port comp, guide rod, and 12 lb spring? :embarassed:

How much?

Melissa5
07-17-2012, 14:26
How much?

How much for the racegun parts or the 17c? LOL

BamaTrooper
07-17-2012, 14:31
How much for the racegun parts or the 17c? LOL

I have a 17C already, what do you want for the parts? Keep in mind that they must not work, because a- you want to get rid of them and b- they didn't win:tongueout:

Melissa5
07-17-2012, 14:48
I have a 17C already, what do you want for the parts? Keep in mind that they must not work, because a- you want to get rid of them and b- they didn't win:tongueout:

:whistling: All 4 of my plate runs were clean (but slow), so it worked for about a minute. :embarassed:

I was checking the Carver web site to see what I had paid for the parts...Lone Wolf G17 slide and barrel, 4 port compensator, Carver guide rod & wolff 12 lb spring, had to have the ejection port lowered, and the slide and comp are Cerakoted a greyish silver color. It hurts me to look at the total amount spent on those things - around $675 after shipping. Bama, why don't you make me an offer I can't refuse.

Roadkill_751
07-17-2012, 16:14
I heard people mention this... I was there all weekend and I missed it.. Guess I was working to hard. I like to take every chance I can get to win Glock stuff..

The Glock games were in the long white tents on Vendor Row next to the parking lot.

I guess next year we need better signage to the Glock game venue. :thumbsup:

Njanear
07-17-2012, 16:56
The Glock games were in the long white tents on Vendor Row next to the parking lot.

I guess next year we need better signage to the Glock game venue. :thumbsup:

Sshhhhh! :quiet: Forget that I mentioned the Glock games. Those prizes will probably be the only things that I ever win at a match. :embarassed:

SCC
07-17-2012, 17:06
Sshhhhh! :quiet: Forget that I mentioned the Glock games. Those prizes will probably be the only things that I ever win at a match. :embarassed:
I THINK I'M WITH YOU :shocked:

PM720
07-17-2012, 17:58
I've got about 2 months to figure it out for Conyers. Scott doesn't want to shoot factory rounds! :supergrin:

I'm starting to rethink that request. Got any Fed 115gr Walmart stuff? :whistling::supergrin:

Scott

PM720
07-17-2012, 18:02
:whistling: All 4 of my plate runs were clean (but slow), so it worked for about a minute. :embarassed:

I was checking the Carver web site to see what I had paid for the parts...Lone Wolf G17 slide and barrel, 4 port compensator, Carver guide rod & wolff 12 lb spring, had to have the ejection port lowered, and the slide and comp are Cerakoted a greyish silver color. It hurts me to look at the total amount spent on those things - around $675 after shipping. Bama, why don't you make me an offer I can't refuse.

I'll give you $50 bucks for your broken racegun stuff! I mean, thats why your selling it right? It doesn't work? :whistling::rofl::rofl:

Can I run that top end on my G22 frame? :headscratch:

Scott

Melissa5
07-17-2012, 18:26
I'll give you $50 bucks for your broken racegun stuff! I mean, thats why your selling it right? It doesn't work? :whistling::rofl::rofl:

Can I run that top end on my G22 frame? :headscratch:

Scott

LOL! It's probably just my crappy reloads. :dunno: Seriously though, I would sell the whole thing for $1200 and start over with a milled slide and small sight mounted in the dovetail if I could only find a sucker to....um, I mean if I could find someone to buy it.:rofl:

Ocean_glocker
07-17-2012, 18:35
The Glock games were in the long white tents on Vendor Row next to the parking lot.

I guess next year we need better signage to the Glock game venue. :thumbsup:

ooooh, I thought that was an Ed's public safety vendor tent tent or something.... I'm not gonna lie, I skipped right past all the vendors at Dawsonville...

JTSmith
07-17-2012, 22:29
Well the four of us that carpooled together had a great time on Sunday . Each one of us shot 3 divisions. The match went VERY smoothly for myself and one of my friends. I think we signed it at 10:10 and were finished at 12:50, just as the bottom fell out. The other 2 guys were at 5tG (next to the practice plates) and they were having some small problems. So we walked over to see what was going on and they had a broken target stand, no stapler, and I think no stickers either. The RO's quickly got that squared away, but we soon found out that it is much harder to score and paste with the targets bagged and somewhat wet. Lol.

And once again, I managed my best score with the 26. That little bugger just loves to embarrass his full size siblings.

SARDG, I didn't see you at any stages, although I 'think' I saw you riding around in a UTV or cart.

One more thing. The RO on 5tG next to the practice plates did an outstanding job. We watched him help a fairly young shooter and he did an excellent job. Very patient, clear, and thorough. Later on, a big guy wearing a red Glock shirt was shooting. The same RO asked, "Shooter ready?" and the shooter just sat there. Then he said he didn't have to acknowledge that question. Honestly, he seemed a little bit rude. Some of us watching laughed because a few runs later, that guy was nodding his head when the RO was asking "Shooter ready?".

Anyhow, great match, GREAT RO's, great range; just had a really good time:)

PS Come on random goodies!!!!

Ocean_glocker
07-17-2012, 22:38
When ROs ask "shooter ready" unless you say no, it means your ready. You have some that will nod, some will say yes, most competitors I find will just remain still in thier ready stance and wait for you.

SARDG
07-17-2012, 22:49
Well the four of us that carpooled together had a great time on Sunday...

SARDG, I didn't see you at any stages, although I 'think' I saw you riding around in a UTV or cart.

One more thing. The RO on 5tG next to the practice plates did an outstanding job... ...Later on, a big guy wearing a red Glock shirt was shooting. The same RO asked, "Shooter ready?" and the shooter just sat there. Then he said he didn't have to acknowledge that question. Honestly, he seemed a little bit rude. Some of us watching laughed because a few runs later, that guy was nodding his head when the RO was asking "Shooter ready?".
Yep... I was in (or on) 1 or 2 of their 4-wheelers on Sunday part of the time - though I also RO'ed at a 5 and later an M. Kinda expected to see you, but it wasn't to be I suppose.

Biggest guy wearing a red Glock shirt was Mark Ramsey and I know he shot at that 5 near the practice plates. And he's absolutely correct - the shooter doesn't have to answer that question and I don't expect shooters to acknowledge it when I RO. It's rhetorical... After an offered unloaded sight picture and then a load and make ready, the RO begins the cadence and it's up to the shooter to say if he or she isn't ready. I don't tell the shooter to nod, nor do I wait for a nod or a verbal acknowledgement.

ETA: As a matter of fact, as a shooter I find that ROs telling me to nod when ready is a little disconcerting. I'm concentrating on my gun and targets - not bobbing my head. I may say "ready" - I will not nod.

misunderestimated
07-18-2012, 04:50
When ROs ask "shooter ready" unless you say no, it means your ready. You have some that will nod, some will say yes, most competitors I find will just remain still in thier ready stance and wait for you.


May bee change the verbiage to "Shooter Is Ready"

I have found if I do not acknowledge that command they will wait or say something sarcastic that angers me and take my mind off the job at hand.

I always nod my head to avoid a problem.

I keep a binder with all of the rules,and the ro information with me, Several times while waiting to shoot I have wanted to bring the information out and educate a RO who is constantly telling the shooter to nod so he knows he is ready to shoot.
I understand the R.O is a volunteer ,and this might be his first and only time working at this type of an event and I am not there to educate but I am there to shoot and try and score well . I just go with the flow and nod my head when they ask is the shooter ready .

SARDG
07-18-2012, 07:34
May bee change the verbiage to "Shooter Is Ready"

I have found if I do not acknowledge that command they will wait or say something sarcastic that angers me and take my mind off the job at hand.

I always nod my head to avoid a problem.

I keep a binder with all of the rules,and the ro information with me, Several times while waiting to shoot I have wanted to bring the information out and educate a RO who is constantly telling the shooter to nod so he knows he is ready to shoot.
I understand the R.O is a volunteer ,and this might be his first and only time working at this type of an event and I am not there to educate but I am there to shoot and try and score well . I just go with the flow and nod my head when they ask is the shooter ready .
The CORRECT command is "Are you ready?" and I dislike "Shooter is ready." It's supposed to be an interrogatory.

GSSF Commands:

Load and make ready

… watch the competitor’s muzzle and ensure it is kept downrange.
Are you ready?
Standby
** BUZZ **
(the preceding commands should establish a cadence with equal time between each as if initiating a countdown; Are you ready, tick, tick, Standby, tick tick, ** BUZZ **)
… shooting … shooting …
If you are finished, unload and show clear
… watch the competitor’s muzzle as they clear the firearm
If gun is clear, slide forward
Pull the trigger
Lock the slide to the rear and holster
…if the competitor isn’t using a holster, they may:
Place the firearm in the Glock box or bag
Range is SAFE

I generally have time to observe and listen to an RO beforehand and if an RO's commands are too off-the-wall, I'll tell the RO before we even start what I expect.

ETA: Just as a shooter should stop an RO if he or she isn't ready, an RO should slow down a shooter who may unload and clear their gun before the RO got a good look at the chamber when clearing.

jcwren
07-18-2012, 08:33
(snippage)
Place the firearm in the Glock box or bag
Range is SAFE


Sorry, but I'm a big believer in the USPSA version, "Range is CLEAR". While anyone around me has a firearm, and especially if ammunition is present, the range is never *safe*.

SARDG
07-18-2012, 08:40
Sorry, but I'm a big believer in the USPSA version, "Range is CLEAR". While anyone around me has a firearm, and especially if ammunition is present, the range is never *safe*.
I'm a proponent of correct commands for a given competition, but do drift to commands used in my other competitions occasionally. "Shooter Ready?" itself is not a GSSF command.

"Range is Safe" is the correct GSSF (and IDPA) command.

PM720
07-18-2012, 08:55
I have had several occasions where I am done and standing there with the slide locked back pointing the empty chamber at the RO (yes, muzzle down range! :supergrin:) and they are having a conversation with the scoring RO. Waiting, waiting... :whistling::faint:

Scott

jcwren
07-18-2012, 08:59
As someone who RO'ed the plate rack on this match, I'll tell you one thing I *didn't* like -- People asking for their times while I'm in the middle of range commands. I'm happy to tell you your time, but let's wait until *after* I tell you to reload, and the score keeper has gotten the time written down, and we've got the plates reset. Don't interrupt me in the middle of the sequence to ask that.

Chromepulse
07-18-2012, 09:09
What I hated about the plate rack was the plates not going down when I hit them! :dunno:

SARDG
07-18-2012, 09:23
As someone who RO'ed the plate rack on this match, I'll tell you one thing I *didn't* like -- People asking for their times while I'm in the middle of range commands. I'm happy to tell you your time, but let's wait until *after* I tell you to reload, and the score keeper has gotten the time written down, and we've got the plates reset. Don't interrupt me in the middle of the sequence to ask that.
Personally, as an RO I like to read the time and tell the Scorekeeper, who will repeat it back. I like to do this so that I know the time is correct and because my timer (and I always use my personal timer) also displays the shot-count right under the time. I count the shots and compare with the count as I read the time. But Scott (GSSF) has now said (and written the RO Guide to say) that the CRO can (should) simply tilt the timer for the Scorekeeper RO to see and the scorekeeper should say something like 'got it'. That entire system is errror prone IMO. Guess I've seen too many ROs who misread the time. Nevertheless, I try to play their game by tilting the timer for the Scorekeeper to read and asking the Sorekeeper to read the time aloud, along with the shot count. If that's done, the competitor knows his time, and I know the Scorekeeper got it right - probably. I am aware of normal times without a timer within +/- 2seconds or better so I will know if the read time is in the ballpark. It shouldn't be an issue for the Scorekeeper to both write and speak the time... I sincerely hope!

I'm just as happy with experienced shooters who reload on their own and move the stage along, but regardless, after the firearm's reloaded, I'm on to the cadence - not repeating times.

SARDG
07-18-2012, 09:28
I have had several occasions where I am done and standing there with the slide locked back pointing the empty chamber at the RO (yes, muzzle down range! :supergrin:) and they are having a conversation with the scoring RO. Waiting, waiting... :whistling::faint:

Scott
What are they talking about - dinner and drinks that evening, or trying to figure out the time, etc?

jcwren
07-18-2012, 09:32
What we had to do was hold the timer so the scorekeeper can see it during the entire string. This was because it would occasionally hear shots from the shooter on the other side of the bay. That way, if it jumped after our competitor was finished, we had a valid shot time. As an RO, I count shots myself.

If you're indoors or an enclosed area outdoors, the shot counter may not be accurate. Other disciplines (which I'm more familiar with) don't allow you to use the shot counter on a timer for confirmation.


Guess I've seen too many ROs who misread the time.


Heh. One of the people I regularly shoot with who RO's is a dyslexic. As a scorekeeper, I *always* look at the timer to verify what I heard. And I don't how many times this RO has read the time off the timer incorrectly. "Uh, no. Wanna check that again, <insert name here>?"

SARDG
07-18-2012, 10:00
What we had to do was hold the timer so the scorekeeper can see it during the entire string. This was because it would occasionally hear shots from the shooter on the other side of the bay. That way, if it jumped after our competitor was finished, we had a valid shot time. As an RO, I count shots myself.
From the general 2012 RO Guide:
"Note. The Scorekeeping Range
Officer and the Chief Range Officer should situate themselves in such a
way that the CRO can extend the timers’ display towards the
Scorekeeping RO and allow him to read and record the time."

and from the Scorekeeper RO Guide:
"Watch competitor engage D-1’s and steel targets. Only 2 shots per string (1 for MajorSub) are allowed on D-1 targets. Steel may be engaged until it falls. Only one pepper popper may be scored per string. If more than one pepper popper is shot down during the same string, it will be recorded as a miss for the next string(s)."

Ergo, and as in other competitons, the Scorekeeper should watch the targets rather than the ongoing timer count.

The CROs should be famiiar with proper adjustment and use of the timer and check their timer prior to running any competitors. I shot on Friday and was the first competitor an RO ran - and he didn't record my time on my first string because the timer sensitivity was set incorrectly. Nor did he know how to check and adjust the sensitivity.

I have taken shot timers and successfully adjusted the sensitivity so that 2 stages next to one another (without baffles) can shoot symultaneously and not record one another's shots. This requires that the CRO keep the timer pointed at the muzzle, then after the string "the CRO can extend the timers’ display towards the Scorekeeping RO and allow him to read and record the time." (see above)

If you're indoors or an enclosed area outdoors, the shot counter may not be accurate. Other disciplines (which I'm more familiar with) don't allow you to use the shot counter on a timer for confirmation.
Simply needs sensitivity adjustment. Not familiar with a competition where the shot string can't be consulted.



Heh. One of the people I regularly shoot with who RO's is a dyslexic. As a scorekeeper, I *always* look at the timer to verify what I heard. And I don't how many times this RO has read the time off the timer incorrectly. "Uh, no. Wanna check that again, <insert name here>?"
Wow... I think that RO should not be assigned anything to do with scores...

ron59
07-18-2012, 13:30
On the conversations about "being ready" and so forth.... I find that GSSF R.O.'s often start their cadence a little too soon for me. I usually fidget a bit before I'm ready. I often go so far as to say, "Give me a second or two, when I'm ready, I will nod". I don't ever recall that being taken in a bad way by an R.O.

In the other games (like USPSA), after the "Make Ready" command, you have time between loading and holstering (or placing gun on table.... whatever). The R.O. is to assume when you have gotten into the start position, that you are ready. For example, if it is surrender position, you don't raise your hands until you are ready. Or even hands at sides. Hold them up near your waist or whatever until you've done your mental preparation or whatever, then lower to your sides.

They then say "Are you Ready", no answer means that you are ready, you don't need to confirm that you are.

I don't know why it takes me a little longer to get ready in GSSF, I think it's because I start with the gun in my hands or something.

legacy38
07-18-2012, 16:37
On the conversations about "being ready" and so forth.... I find that GSSF R.O.'s often start their cadence a little too soon for me. I usually fidget a bit before I'm ready. I often go so far as to say, "Give me a second or two, when I'm ready, I will nod". I don't ever recall that being taken in a bad way by an R.O.

In the other games (like USPSA), after the "Make Ready" command, you have time between loading and holstering (or placing gun on table.... whatever). The R.O. is to assume when you have gotten into the start position, that you are ready. For example, if it is surrender position, you don't raise your hands until you are ready. Or even hands at sides. Hold them up near your waist or whatever until you've done your mental preparation or whatever, then lower to your sides.

They then say "Are you Ready", no answer means that you are ready, you don't need to confirm that you are.

I don't know why it takes me a little longer to get ready in GSSF, I think it's because I start with the gun in my hands or something.

There were several times at this match that the RO started with the "shooter ready" and then gave the "stand by" before I indicated ready, and I had to call him off. This was also on the stage where I was having a hard time hearing the buzzer, but the RO did make an effort to work with me. Last year at Dawsonville there was an RO that was giving the "ready" and then hitting the buzzer. I had to set my pistol down and have a talk with him twice, and I think VolGrad was given a re-shoot because of it.

VOLGRAD
07-18-2012, 19:16
I had to set my pistol down and have a talk with him twice, and I think VolGrad was given a re-shoot because of it.
I can't recall the specifics but do recall having a buzzer happy RO last year. I think my reshoot was for something else though. I also seem to have a nack for range equipment failures.

SARDG
07-18-2012, 20:17
There were several times at this match that the RO started with the "shooter ready" and then gave the "stand by" before I indicated ready, and I had to call him off...
And I would do the same thing as I don't wait for shooters to specifically indicate ready. I do give shooters every opportunity to prepare and assume what appears to be a correct ready position however - and that's after offering an unloaded sight picture with dry fire. Every shooter at a given time is my 'customer' and gets my undivided attention (and any assistance they may need) for their 5-6 minutes on the line in the space-time continuim.

This was also on the stage where I was having a hard time hearing the buzzer, but the RO did make an effort to work with me...
I was trained, and I train, to hold the timer right next to the shooter's ear, facing the shooter's ear. After I sound the buzzer I move the timer slightly away and higher to face the muzzle. I don't hold my timer readout to the Scorekeeper as my timer displays the shot count anyway.

legacy38
07-19-2012, 06:35
And I would do the same thing as I don't wait for shooters to specifically indicate ready. I do give shooters every opportunity to prepare and assume what appears to be a correct ready position however - and that's after offering an unloaded sight picture with dry fire. Every shooter at a given time is my 'customer' and gets my undivided attention (and any assistance they may need) for their 5-6 minutes on the line in the space-time continuim.


I was trained, and I train, to hold the timer right next to the shooter's ear, facing the shooter's ear. After I sound the buzzer I move the timer slightly away and higher to face the muzzle. I don't hold my timer readout to the Scorekeeper as my timer displays the shot count anyway.

I never give the standby until the shooter indicates ready.

He was holding the buzzer behind my head and finally moved it up by my ear. This was on the plates, and the shooter on the other side of the bay was shooting at the same time, which made it even harder to hear.

bryandover
07-19-2012, 07:52
[QUOTE=legacy38;19212148]I never give the standby until the shooter indicates ready.QUOTE]

I tell the RO if I assume the postion I am ready. I usually reload and ready before the scorekeeper writes down the score. But I probably like to shoot at a faster pace than most. :dunno:

SARDG
07-19-2012, 08:19
I tell the RO if I assume the postion I am ready. I usually reload and ready before the scorekeeper writes down the score....
You're the kind of shooter I like to see show up at a stage I'm running - shoot a string, reload - no reload command necessary.

But ...I probably like to shoot at a faster pace than most. :dunno:
:upeyes: ...you could say that. :tongueout:


On another note, I've been using one of your favorite guns (a G26 in SubC) for the last few matches and in Dawsonville got my quickest stock time with the 26 - better than with the 17 in MastStk and Comp. That short sight radius actually helps me get on the first target faster. I'm going to start practicing a little more with the 26 and see where it takes me.

ron59
07-19-2012, 08:24
I never give the standby until the shooter indicates ready.

He was holding the buzzer behind my head and finally moved it up by my ear. This was on the plates, and the shooter on the other side of the bay was shooting at the same time, which made it even harder to hear.

I like this approach. I like to "do my thing" and then give a quick nod that I'm ready. Sometimes it's 2-3 seconds, other times it might take 6-7 seconds, but I don't think that's excessive. I can say I've *never* been rushed at the start of a USPSA stage, but like Lee mentions, I've often had a GSSF R.O. start almost as soon as I have the mag in and gripped the gun with both hands. Nope... If I'm fidgeting around, I'm obviously "not ready" yet. Gimme a damn second.

I also like to use the "Shooter is ready" command, as an assertion that you, the R.O. realizes he has indicated ready.
Shooter is ready (statement, not a question)
Standby
Beep


Kitty, that was not addressed to you. Sounds like you might give a shooter his time. And it's never been too much a problem with any other R.O., I just stand up and say "hold on, too fast" or something. Which is when I will usually say, "Gimme a second to get ready, I will nod when ready". At which point it's usually been good to go.

And while I realize that the "rule book" might indicate that is should be "Shooter is ready?" but I see the former more often, at least around here. It just seems cleaner. Instead of the R.O. possibly getting started too soon, the other way, the shooter gets to start when HE'S ready. Way more important.

In fact, I'll usually tell the shooter, "Gimme a nod when you're ready", when he does, off we go. Never heard a complaint. Realize, I'm not a certified R.O. But at a lot of the matches, we might be short an R.O., and they all know I'm pretty experienced about what needs to happen. I don't do it a *lot*, but me and several of my shooting buddies are asked to run the R.O. assigned to the squad when it's his turn to shoot. Maybe run 2-3 other shooters as well while R.O. is prepping/reloading/resting. And we all (even the OFFICIAL R.O.'s) do it pretty much like I described.

SARDG
07-19-2012, 08:39
...Kitty, that was not addressed to you. Sounds like you might give a shooter his time. And it's never been too much a problem with any other R.O., I just stand up and say "hold on, too fast" or something. Which is when I will usually say, "Gimme a second to get ready, I will nod when ready". At which point it's usually been good to go.

And while I realize that the "rule book" might indicate that is should be "Shooter is ready?" but I see the former more often, at least around here. It just seems cleaner.
Yep... there's no fire, so... :)

I think a lot of newer shooters don't take control of their destiny or realize that if an RO starts the cadence, and they are NOT ready, that they can call them off.

Same thing with reshoots - many shooters won't stop when there's a problem and a reshoot is warranted. And unfortunately in that case, many ROs don't proactively offer a reshoot.

I know in some of my postings I sound like a hard-ar$e, but I honestly try to give every shooter the best possible oppotunity to succeed and post a good score.

The rule book says "Are you ready?", but I think that's what you meant the rules say.

SARDG
07-19-2012, 08:55
I like this approach. I like to "do my thing" and then give a quick nod that I'm ready...

In fact, I'll usually tell the shooter, "Gimme a nod when you're ready", when he does, off we go. Never heard a complaint. Realize, I'm not a certified R.O. But at a lot of the matches, we might be short an R.O., and they all know I'm pretty experienced about what needs to happen... ...And we all (even the OFFICIAL R.O.'s) do it pretty much like I described.
Personally, I am NOT a nodder as I don't like bobbing my head around after I'm set. And the rules and RO Guides say "do not tell the shooter to nod...".

I only had one RO this weekend tell me to 'nod when ready' and I ignored him and grunted a "ready" when I was ready.

OFFICIAL ROs?? :rofl: Some of the 'Official' ROs don't own Glocks and don't shoot GSSF, and in fact may not be competitors. And I have witnessed more than once where an untrained would-be CRO stepped up to run the line to relieve someone (uhh... me), and I wouldn't let them. An untrained RO believes a CROs job is pushing a button on a box that's somewhere in the vicinity of the shooter - period. In fact, the CRO's job #1 is safety and controlling problems before they occur.

I'm sure your unofficial ROing is better than some official's - but I ain't nodding for you! :supergrin:

bryandover
07-19-2012, 09:08
I only had one RO this weekend tell me to 'nod when ready' and I ignored him and grunted a "ready" when I was ready.

I might just start farting when ready and after the RO gets sick of the smell he or she might get the idea. :rofl:

ron59
07-19-2012, 09:14
Personally, I am NOT a nodder as I don't like bobbing my head around after I'm set. And the rules and RO Guides say "do not tell the shooter to nod...".

I just looked at The Glock Report ("the rules"), and I don't find the word NOD in there anywhere. So the statement of yours I bolded is far from correct. Perhaps the GSSF RO Guides, but that's not anything (as a shooter) I've ever bothered to read as they don't pertain to my actions as a shooter. I don't even remember seeing them anywhere either, except maybe you posted them once/twice here. Regardless... not being an RO, I imagine most competitors wouldn't bother with reading them as well.

Also, The Glock Report does not even (clearly) explain to a shooter what commands the R.O. will even give. The only place the word "Standby" is mentioned, is in the Shooter Lingo section. So only if you thoroughly read that section will you see references to "Ready?" and "Standby", and they're not even discussed together, as in "Here's how you will be instructed to shoot". Both IDPA and USPSA books do a better job of explaining the commands the R.O. will supply during the start phase of a string. Section 130 (Stage Procedures) simply says "Listen to the commands the R.O. gives" and that's it. That section could certainly be written better, to describe the commands and the sequence they will be given.

Anyway, in that post of mine I was comparing the difference between GSSF and what I shoot way more often... USPSA. I shoot at most 5 GSSFs per year, whereas I shoot 1-3 USPS matches a month. So that is where my comfort zone comes from, how I am run in those matches.

For me... I try to have GSSF fit my preferred style of shooting, and that's pretty much worked so far. That might seem selfish (ignoring what the rules *say* versus what I prefer), but in my mind, the competitions are held FOR THE SHOOTERS, and not so an R.O. can R.O. Therefore I think some flexibility is acceptable.

legacy38
07-19-2012, 09:41
I have never been an RO at a GSSF match as I usually don't have the time to commit to doing it, and I want one facet of my life where I am more Indian than chief. I am a certified SO for IDPA and have worked both club and championship level matches.

"shooter ready" is a question and not a statement. The RO/SO should not continue until the shooter has indicated ready be it a nod or verbally.

SARDG
07-19-2012, 10:02
I have never been an RO at a GSSF match as I usually don't have the time to commit to doing it, and I want one facet of my life where I am more Indian than chief. I am a certified SO for IDPA and have worked both club and championship level matches.

"shooter ready" is a question and not a statement. The RO/SO should not continue until the shooter has indicated ready be it a nod or verbally.
Not true for GSSF, though allowed and used in IDPA. (I'm an IDPA SO as well. :))

ron59
07-19-2012, 10:08
I have never been an RO at a GSSF match as I usually don't have the time to commit to doing it, and I want one facet of my life where I am more Indian than chief. I am a certified SO for IDPA and have worked both club and championship level matches.

"shooter ready" is a question and not a statement. The RO/SO should not continue until the shooter has indicated ready be it a nod or verbally.

The only problem I have, is the bolded statement. That does not appear in any rulebook that I see. At least, that the shooter should nod or verbally assent to the question.

In the IDPA book, it is "Shooter Ready". It is a question, but nowhere in the IDPA rules do I see where the shooter is actually instructed how he must respond (if at all) to that question. Nothing about "if not ready what the shooter does", or "if ready, nod or assent verbally".

In the USPSA book it is 8.3.2. "are you Ready?", the lack of any negative response indicates readiness, and if NOT ready the shooter is to say "not ready". That is a the total opposite from what you stated. NOT SAYING ANYTHING would mean you're ready. But at least the USPSA rule book makes it very clear how the shooter should react to the question. The IDPA and GSSF rule books do neither.


They might have taught you that in your R.O. class, but it is not verified/confirmed in any rule book to be run that way.

The simple inconsistencies there is why it is done so many different ways. Which is why.... I want to indicate to the R.O. that I'm ready and THEN he can start his commands.

Going back to the IDPA rule book... you can certainly say, "It's common sense that you should show assent via a nod or verbal statement you are ready". My rebuttal is that the USPSA rule book doesn't treat the same question in that way, in fact the direct opposite. Therefore, "it's not common sense". Nor specifically spelled out in the rule book issues to the competitors. Therefore, your process and assumptions therein are flawed.

SARDG
07-19-2012, 10:34
The only problem I have, is the bolded statement. That does not appear in any rulebook that I see. At least, that the shooter should nod or verbally assent to the question.

In the IDPA book, it is "Shooter Ready". It is a question, but nowhere in the IDPA rules do I see where the shooter is actually instructed how he must respond (if at all) to that question. Nothing about "if not ready what the shooter does", or "if ready, nod or assent verbally"...
It's in the IDPA SO Syllabus.

Shooter Ready: Question asked by SO to make sure the shooter is ready to engage the CoF.
At this point, if you notice that the shooter has forgotten something important (such as loading the gun), remind the shooter. The shooter may have questions at this point. If he does, be patient with him. When the shooter indicates he is ready (normally by nodding his head);
Standby: Command given to the shooter to freeze in the start position before the audible start signal...

It's somewhat like GSSF where ROs must gather correct procedures from the rule book, the RO Guides, the Shooter's Lingo, the RO Notes of each stage, and from decisions made by GSSF Officials.

ron59
07-19-2012, 11:33
It's in the IDPA SO Syllabus.

[edited....]

It's somewhat like GSSF where ROs must gather correct procedures from the rule book, the RO Guides, the Shooter's Lingo, the RO Notes of each stage, and from decisions made by GSSF Officials.

With both IDPA and GSSF, one would think an obligation of the shooter would be in the rule book the shooter is given. That is the IDPA rule book as on their site, and the Glock Report in the case of GSSF. Not in a book that is issued to ROs or SOs.

Shame on them both for contributing towards non-clarity.

SARDG
07-19-2012, 11:40
With both IDPA and GSSF, one would think an obligation of the shooter would be in the rule book the shooter is given. That is the IDPA rule book as on their site, and the Glock Report in the case of GSSF. Not in a book that is issued to ROs or SOs.

Shame on them both for contributing towards non-clarity.
Agree... but who reads the rules anyway? :supergrin:

As for range commands in general, IDPA is the closest thing to GSSF that I've found - and yet, most GSSF Officials are heavily vested in USPSA. :dunno:

VOLGRAD
07-19-2012, 11:52
I personally find the bickering about specific verbage of range commands amusing (not here of course, just at IDPA :whistling: ).

Legacy and I shoot monthly IDPA and our squad is pretty much the same group of guys every month. Occasionally, a member of the local organization of USPSA Nazis will arrive late (thus making him miss his spot on his regular squad) and shoot with us. These guys usually get pretty tweaked if you don't "say it right" so we make a practice of using nearly everything BUT the "proper" command to see if we can make their heads explode.

Unless we are talking about a truly competitive, championship level match I honestly don't care if you say "load & make ready" or "gas it up" or "make it hot". Who cares? You know what you mean. I know what you mean. The guys standing behind us with pasters at the ready know what you mean.

The exact verbage doesn't compromise the shooter's understanding of the stage nor does it compromise the shooter's understanding of the range command. Most of all, it doesn't compromise safety.

WRT "shooter ready" ... I too believe that's a question and not a statement. If it's a question then the ROs response of "standby" should not occur until he/she receives a response. If it was a statement then what prescribes how long the RO waits before moving to "standby"? Does he wait 3 seconds? Does he wait 3 minutes? Does he change it up from one shooter to the next?

I think the point of wether or not "shooter ready" is a question or a statement is more about courtesy than rules. As a courtesy to the shooter the RO should wait for a response. Is it in the rules? Don't know, don't care. I'd afford the RO the same courtesy.

unclebob
07-19-2012, 12:08
I personally find the bickering about specific verbage of range commands amusing (not here of course, just at IDPA :whistling: ).

Legacy and I shoot monthly IDPA and our squad is pretty much the same group of guys every month. Occasionally, a member of the local organization of USPSA Nazis will arrive late (thus making him miss his spot on his regular squad) and shoot with us. These guys usually get pretty tweaked if you don't "say it right" so we make a practice of using nearly everything BUT the "proper" command to see if we can make their heads explode.

Unless we are talking about a truly competitive, championship level match I honestly don't care if you say "load & make ready" or "gas it up" or "make it hot". Who cares? You know what you mean. I know what you mean. The guys standing behind us with pasters at the ready know what you mean.

The exact verbage doesn't compromise the shooter's understanding of the stage nor does it compromise the shooter's understanding of the range command. Most of all, it doesn't compromise safety.

WRT "shooter ready" ... I too believe that's a question and not a statement. If it's a question then the ROs response of "standby" should not occur until he/she receives a response. If it was a statement then what prescribes how long the RO waits before moving to "standby"? Does he wait 3 seconds? Does he wait 3 minutes? Does he change it up from one shooter to the next?

I think the point of wether or not "shooter ready" is a question or a statement is more about courtesy than rules. As a courtesy to the shooter the RO should wait for a response. Is it in the rules? Don't know, don't care. I'd afford the RO the same courtesy.
:agree:

SARDG
07-19-2012, 12:12
...WRT "shooter ready" ... I too believe that's a question and not a statement. If it's a question then the ROs response of "standby" should not occur until he/she receives a response. If it was a statement then what prescribes how long the RO waits before moving to "standby"? Does he wait 3 seconds? Does he wait 3 minutes? Does he change it up from one shooter to the next?

I think the point of wether or not "shooter ready" is a question or a statement is more about courtesy than rules. As a courtesy to the shooter the RO should wait for a response. Is it in the rules? Don't know, don't care. I'd afford the RO the same courtesy.
It is a question - a rhetorical question not requiring a direct answer. (In GSSF and apparently USPSA.)

Left to my own devices, I follow the GSSF rules and RO Guides and don't wait for a response. NOW... if the shooter comes to the line and tells me he will nod or otherwise indicate 'ready', I will oblige.

BamaTrooper
07-19-2012, 12:16
SAFETY first...but as there are many different clubs, shooters and courses of fire, you can expect a little variation.

In my opinion, the shooter should know, and the RO should reinforce, not to handle a weapon unless told they can and not to break the safety plane.

Other than that, let me know how you are going to call commands and I will do it that way. I don't need to be a pain in the ass, nor does the RO because "you ain't doin' it right!"ETA as long as we are safe and not cheating.

Anyone that has shot a GSSF match should know
1- dry sight picture (optional)
2- load and make ready
3- shooter ready...beep
4- Bang (between 6 and 11 times)
5- repeat 2-4 as required by CoF
6- Bag or Holster
7- Score and Go

Don At PC
07-19-2012, 12:20
Darn Bama;

You make that so simple even "Ron White" could follow it. :rofl::faint::embarassed:

Don

SARDG
07-19-2012, 12:21
SAFETY first...

Anyone that has shot a GSSF match should know
1- dry sight picture (optional)
2- load and make ready
3- shooter ready...beep
4- Bang (between 6 and 11 times)
5- repeat 2-4 as required by CoF
6- Bag or Holster
7- Score and Go
They should also know the 'commands':
8- Finger
9- Muzzle
10- Stop

ETA: Each of those last 3 have a true meaning in the scheme of things.

Roadkill_751
07-19-2012, 12:24
Whew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Shooter ready? Or Not! :deadhorse::popcorn:

This needs to be its own thread......

SARDG
07-19-2012, 12:25
Anyone that has shot a GSSF match should know
1- dry sight picture (optional)
2- load and make ready
3- shooter ready...beep
4- Bang (between 6 and 11 times)
5- repeat 2-4 as required by CoF
6- Bag or Holster
7- Score and Go
You forgot STANDBY!

Don At PC
07-19-2012, 12:26
I think I have a Headache. :faint::supergrin:

Don

BamaTrooper
07-19-2012, 12:26
Whew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Shooter ready? Or Not! :deadhorse::popcorn:

This needs to be its own thread......

Agreed...let's move the RO command issue to another thread.

VOLGRAD
07-19-2012, 12:28
It is a question - a rhetorical question not requiring a direct answer. (In GSSF and apparently USPSA.)

Left to my own devices, I follow the GSSF rules and RO Guides and don't wait for a response. NOW... if the shooter comes to the line and tells me he will nod or otherwise indicate 'ready', I will oblige.

So what happens when you don't get a response and proceed to "standby" or whatever the correct next verbage is but the shooter isn't ready? Suppose you give the standby command, then hit the button and the buzzer goes off. The shooter is taken off guard because he never indicated he was ready.

Does he get to start over? Suppose the buzzer goes off and he freaks and starts blasting. At the end of the string he says, "M'am I wasn't ready. I never said I was. I know I shouldn't have shot that string if I wasn't ready but I sort of freaked out when the buzzer went off."

Does he get a re-shoot? It's not like he is asking for one because he shot poorly. He's asking for a re-shoot because he (as many of us do) thinks "shooter ready" is a question he should answer before hearing "standby" and "BEEP". Not everyone even knows the exact "verbage" and clearly many of us with a good bit of experience disagree on both the vergabe and how it's to be delivered and received.

I have had it happen to me a few times at GSSF matches. I suspect it happens because the RO is fatigued by going through the same motions over and over a million times for 2-3 days in a row. I get that. However, I don't think it's fair to the shooters to push them along. You might have been there for 10 hours for 2 days in a row but this guy/gal might be there for their first match. They are only on the line for 10 strings of fire (per division, of course) and are trying to make the most of it and perform at their peak. They don't need to be pushed or surprised just because they don't know how the RO interprets the question (rhetorical vs real).

I recall when the buzzer went off unexpectedly in a GSSF match I paused for a good second thinking, "WTF just happened? Was that timer for me?" I recall looking at the RO and getting a, "Hey dumb@$$ start shooting", look in return. So, I start shooting (poorly I might add due to trying to make up for lost time). I don't recall asking for a re-shoot but do recall having to tell the same RO after EACH string, "Wait until I say OK next time to proceed." I think I might have even discussed it with the MD afterward.

VOLGRAD
07-19-2012, 12:31
Anyone that has shot a GSSF match should know .....

Keep in mind GSSF is sort of geared for beginner shooters. Many will be shooting their first GSSF match or their first match of ANY kind. They can't be expected to know the RO thinks "shooter ready" is a rhetorical question.

BamaTrooper
07-19-2012, 12:39
Keep in mind GSSF is sort of geared for beginner shooters. Many will be shooting their first GSSF match or their first match of ANY kind. They can't be expected to know the RO thinks "shooter ready" is a rhetorical question.

In my defense, I did say that has shot a GSSF match.

VOLGRAD
07-19-2012, 12:48
In my defense, I did say that has shot a GSSF match.

Oh I know. I'm just saying the guy at the line might not have shot a GSSF match so he shouldn't be expected to know all the commands you mentioned (and the one you missed :tongueout: ) and what the RO expects in return unless the RO tells them. Not everyone reads the forums and is up on the goings on so what's the harm in letting the shooter answer the question? That was my point.

SARDG
07-19-2012, 13:00
So what happens when you don't get a response and proceed to "standby" or whatever the correct next verbage is but the shooter isn't ready? Suppose you give the standby command, then hit the button and the buzzer goes off. The shooter is taken off guard because he never indicated he was ready.
Once again... the shooter does NOT have to indicate he's ready - just as Mark Ramsey (GSSF) pointed out within the post that started this debate.

Does he get to start over? Suppose the buzzer goes off and he freaks and starts blasting. At the end of the string he says, "M'am I wasn't ready. I never said I was. I know I shouldn't have shot that string if I wasn't ready but I sort of freaked out when the buzzer went off."
Rule 20.05
The fundamental mission of GSSF is to introduce new shooters into the world of competitive shooting.

That being said, and GSSF & USPSA rules being alike on this matter, then the shooter should know that he doesn't have to respond. If he freaks, and wants a reshoot... see below.

Does he get a re-shoot? It's not like he is asking for one because he shot poorly. He's asking for a re-shoot because he (as many of us do) thinks "shooter ready" is a question he should answer before hearing "standby" and "BEEP". Not everyone even knows the exact "verbage" and clearly many of us with a good bit of experience disagree on both the vergabe and how it's to be delivered and received.
You betcha he gets a reshoot. The new-since-Orlando 2012 reshoot policy is extremely leniant - including reshoots for brain freezes.

I have had it happen to me a few times at GSSF matches. I suspect it happens because the RO is fatigued by going through the same motions over and over a million times for 2-3 days in a row. I get that. However, I don't think it's fair to the shooters to push them along. You might have been there for 10 hours for 2 days in a row but this guy/gal might be there for their first match. They are only on the line for 10 strings of fire (per division, of course) and are trying to make the most of it and perform at their peak. They don't need to be pushed or surprised just because they don't know how the RO interprets the question (rhetorical vs real).
Can't speak for other ROs - but I push no one along. I take the advice written in the GSSF RO Guides and proffered by GSSF Officials. In this case; no reply required.

I recall when the buzzer went off unexpectedly in a GSSF match I paused for a good second thinking, "WTF just happened? Was that timer for me?" I recall looking at the RO and getting a, "Hey dumb@$$ start shooting", look in return. So, I start shooting (poorly I might add due to trying to make up for lost time). I don't recall asking for a re-shoot but do recall having to tell the same RO after EACH string, "Wait until I say OK next time to proceed." I think I might have even discussed it with the MD afterward.
...and if you asked me the same, I would be happy to accomodate you. And if you asked me for a reshoot because you weren't ready, I'd also accomodate you. The RO you cite was doing it 'by the book' however.

JTSmith
07-19-2012, 13:03
Wow, this is a bigger deal than I thought. Heck, I thought it was easy enough to say "Ready" or give a slight nod. But then again, I've only shot GSSF and have not the slightest idea how IDPA and USPSA events are run.

SARDG
07-19-2012, 13:06
Keep in mind GSSF is sort of geared for beginner shooters. Many will be shooting their first GSSF match or their first match of ANY kind. They can't be expected to know the RO thinks "shooter ready" is a rhetorical question.
True, and this is the venue for them to LEARN to follow competitive rules. ...and that's also why I look for and call 'finger' and 'muzzle' frequently.

See rule 20.05 above.

SARDG
07-19-2012, 13:26
Wow, this is a bigger deal than I thought. Heck, I thought it was easy enough to say "Ready" or give a slight nod. But then again, I've only shot GSSF and have not the slightest idea how IDPA and USPSA events are run.
Well then, you don't have any excuse for not knowing that a response wasn't necessary because you only shoot one discipline - GSSF (the non-response discipline...). :supergrin:

JTSmith
07-19-2012, 15:35
Haha, yeah you got me there:p

frankt
07-19-2012, 18:37
We have the same fight/discussion always going in IDPA also.

I am an IDPA SO and I do not ask for a nod. I say "if you have no questions load and make ready".

Once the shooter is loaded and is in the correct start position (handy relaxed at side, hands on table etc) I say "shooter ready"-- "Standby"--"Beep".

I don't want to be asked to nod either. I am concentrating on my first target and what I hope I will remember to do during the stage. I don't want any chatter. If I am not moving I am ready.

I am hoping in the new rule book addition it is decided once and for all what commands will be used. I will do whatever the book says but I want everyone to do it the same.

VOLGRAD
07-19-2012, 19:00
Once again... the shooter does NOT have to indicate he's ready - just as Mark Ramsey (GSSF) pointed out within the post that started this debate.
OK, I'll concede the rule doesn't require the shooter to indicate ready. Not really a concession though as I wouldn't expect a rule to require what should be a courtesy afforded the shooter in the first place. The rule likewise doesn't say the shooter shouldn't be allowed to indicate ready.

I'll stop :deadhorse: now as I don't see this as a huge issue. Most ROs I have encountered do wait for a nod or verbal OK before proceeding. I was just surprised to find folks adamantly against offering that courtesy. No biggie. If the buzzer sneaks up on me again I'll just ask for a re-shoot.

SARDG
07-19-2012, 19:01
We have the same fight/discussion always going in IDPA also.

I am an IDPA SO and I do not ask for a nod. I say "if you have no questions load and make ready".

Once the shooter is loaded and is in the correct start position (handy relaxed at side, hands on table etc) I say "shooter ready"-- "Standby"--"Beep".

I don't want to be asked to nod either. I am concentrating on my first target and what I hope I will remember to do during the stage. I don't want any chatter. If I am not moving I am ready.

I am hoping in the new rule book addition it is decided once and for all what commands will be used. I will do whatever the book says but I want everyone to do it the same.
I luv U man! All of that is exactly what I do in IDPA - and it's already been determined that I'm not a nodder either for the same reason as you (nor do I ask for a nod in IDPA.)

You were shaping up to be the perfect guy... and then I saw Semper Fi, and I'm a former Squid. Just wasn't meant to be! :supergrin: :wavey:

Kitty

SARDG
07-19-2012, 19:09
...Most ROs I have encountered do wait for a nod or verbal OK before proceeding. I was just surprised to find folks adamantly against offering that courtesy. No biggie. If the buzzer sneaks up on me again I'll just ask for a re-shoot.
I am not against offering the courtesy - if you ask. I'm not the ogre my posts make me out to be. :)

Scott G. has iterated and reiterated the lenient reshoot policy and I encourage everyone to use the rules and GSSF decisions to their fullest extent.

VOLGRAD
07-19-2012, 20:25
I am not against offering the courtesy - if you ask. I'm not the ogre my posts make me out to be. :)

Scott G. has iterated and reiterated the lenient reshoot policy and I encourage everyone to use the rules and GSSF decisions to their fullest extent.

Lol. I'm not all that bad either. I actualy tried to introduceysf to you Sunday when legacy pointed you out. It wasn't you though. Lol. Oops.

SARDG
07-19-2012, 20:33
Lol. I'm not all that bad either. I actualy tried to introduceysf to you Sunday when legacy pointed you out. It wasn't you though. Lol. Oops.
Nope, that wasn't me... I'm much prettier than that other gal... :dunno::faint::embarassed:

Conyers??? Tall, dark hair, ponytail! I'm requesting an 'M'.

PM720
07-19-2012, 20:47
Nope, that wasn't me... I'm much prettier than that other gal... :dunno::faint::embarassed:

Conyers??? Tall, dark hair, ponytail! I'm requesting an 'M'.

Blue gun?

SARDG
07-19-2012, 21:03
Blue gun?
I've been known to carry a blue gun in my holster... :supergrin:

VOLGRAD
07-20-2012, 04:42
Conyers??? Tall, dark hair, ponytail! I'm requesting an 'M'.
We will look for you at Conyers.

JohnFF
07-20-2012, 06:43
Outstanding job RO's!!! This was by far, one of the best run shoots I have been to in a while. My 9 year old shot his first match on Saturday. The RO's couldn't have been moreaccommodating and helpful. Kuddos all the way around.

Glockrunner
07-20-2012, 13:50
Interesting conversation. Hummmm......

Don At PC
07-20-2012, 14:10
Interesting conversation. Hummmm......

Doesn't take much to amuse you does it? :rofl::tongueout::faint:

Don

Glockrunner
07-20-2012, 21:26
Doesn't take much to amuse you does it? :rofl::tongueout::faint:

Don

Hel my head was swimming after reading all that! Better than drinking bath salts!:rofl:

DannyR
07-21-2012, 05:01
Volgrad,

Kitty is easy to find. She is 7ft tall and normally carries a bull whip. Pictured below is an older photo of me and Miss Kitty.:rofl:

emtjr928
07-21-2012, 10:46
Thanks DannyR, I just had hot coffee come out my nose. lol

lethal tupperwa
07-21-2012, 11:19
that must have been one of her almost undercover ops.

Glockrunner
07-21-2012, 13:14
Volgrad,

Kitty is easy to find. She is 7ft tall and normally carries a bull whip. Pictured below is an older photo of me and Miss Kitty.:rofl:

OH BOY Danny! You're in for it now, letting the Kitty out of the bag!:rofl::upeyes: BTW, where did she hide that whip for the photo?

SARDG
07-21-2012, 14:09
Volgrad,

Kitty is easy to find. She is 7ft tall and normally carries a bull whip. Pictured below is an older photo of me and Miss Kitty.:rofl:
Darn... I thought I destroyed all those negatives. And it's not that I'm 7' tall in that pic, it's that Danny is only 3' tall. :tongueout:



...and where is your hand anyway?? :faint::embarassed:

SCC
07-22-2012, 10:02
Darn... I thought I destroyed all those negatives. And it's not that I'm 7' tall in that pic, it's that Danny is only 3' tall. :tongueout:



...and where is your hand anyway?? :faint::embarassed:
:rofl::rofl:

PM720
07-23-2012, 00:57
Darn... I thought I destroyed all those negatives. And it's not that I'm 7' tall in that pic, it's that Danny is only 3' tall. :tongueout:



...and where is your hand anyway?? :faint::embarassed:

Between 2 soft pillows? :wow::rofl:

Scott

VOLGRAD
07-23-2012, 06:31
Between 2 soft pillows? :wow::rofl:

Scott

Those aren't pillows. Arrrrrrrrg.


Kitty, if you wear that outfit to Conyers I'm pretty sure I'll be able to spot you.

SARDG
07-23-2012, 08:33
...Kitty, if you wear that outfit to Conyers I'm pretty sure I'll be able to spot you.
Oh yeah... that would probably do it! :shocked:

There was an E-7 Cavalry guy on the Marietta thread asking how GTers can spot one another at these matches. I think I now have a suggestion for him.

Don At PC
07-23-2012, 08:58
Just wear a Blonde wig with the outfit in the pic with DannyR and everyone will think you are "Lady GaGa". :rofl::faint:

Don

SARDG
07-23-2012, 10:35
Just wear a Blonde wig with the outfit in the pic with DannyR and everyone will think you are "Lady GaGa". :rofl::faint:

Don
Ahh... et tu, brute? One of my own AHC teammates. But I remain unflappable! :tongueout:

Don At PC
07-23-2012, 10:37
Bama and I have to keep you on your toes and sence of humor high. :embarassed::wavey:

Don

drb1611
07-25-2012, 19:32
Hey Danny - I was trying to figure what's wrong with this thread (while drooling over the picture of our Miss Kitty:wow:) - it's that no one has asked when the finals would be posted...

SARDG
07-25-2012, 19:42
Hey Danny - I was trying to figure what's wrong with this thread (while drooling over the picture of our Miss Kitty:wow:) - ...
That's it... next time I find your Jarhead hat, I keep it Don! :whistling:

drb1611
07-25-2012, 19:47
OK - I give. http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/embarass%20.gif

BamaTrooper
07-26-2012, 13:08
Does anyone know when the results will be finalized?

SARDG
07-26-2012, 13:20
Does anyone know when the results will be finalized?
I do - but I'm not telling. :tongueout: Anyway Bama, you have relinguished your rights to inquire because you didn't show up!

Mark Ramsey however, did say the results will be updated and posted before the finals so you who are on the cusp should keep checking.

I sent in a correction because they were trying to cheat me out of a lousy score by posting something better in Competition. I earned that score and didn't want anyone taking it away from me.

bryandover
07-26-2012, 13:21
Finalized, I got my prizes today. :tongueout: :rofl:

lethal tupperwa
07-26-2012, 15:21
I earned that score and didn't want anyone taking it away from me.

Just like the guy in the electric chair who said ,"if you don't connect the red wire it is

not going to work!"

SARDG
07-28-2012, 10:28
Just like the guy in the electric chair who said ,"if you don't connect the red wire it is not going to work!"
I am most proud of my dead-last place in UNL in Reevesville. I don't believe I have ever placed last in a competition in my life in 48 years (off and on) of competing - except for Reevesville UNL. :embarassed:

unclebob
07-28-2012, 11:36
I am most proud of my dead-last place in UNL in Reevesville. I don't believe I have ever placed last in a competition in my life in 48 years (off and on) of competing - except for Reevesville UNL. :embarassed:

Where in the heck did I put that violin?:supergrin:
Hey I came in last place in U/L also one time and got a gun out of it.
I have also had last shot last plate, with no misses. And of course missed the plate. If I would have hit the plate I would have gotten nothing. Missed the plate and got a gun. Of course this was under the old system of scoring and awarding of prizes.

fosters3
08-04-2012, 19:23
I still want that mug :) See you tomorrow...

Still eager to see how the final results work out!

kyglockshooter 2.0
08-04-2012, 22:18
Personally, as an RO I like to read the time and tell the Scorekeeper, who will repeat it back. I like to do this so that I know the time is correct and because my timer (and I always use my personal timer) also displays the shot-count right under the time. I count the shots and compare with the count as I read the time. But Scott (GSSF) has now said (and written the RO Guide to say) that the CRO can (should) simply tilt the timer for the Scorekeeper RO to see and the scorekeeper should say something like 'got it'. That entire system is errror prone IMO. Guess I've seen too many ROs who misread the time. Nevertheless, I try to play their game by tilting the timer for the Scorekeeper to read and asking the Sorekeeper to read the time aloud, along with the shot count. If that's done, the competitor knows his time, and I know the Scorekeeper got it right - probably. I am aware of normal times without a timer within +/- 2seconds or better so I will know if the read time is in the ballpark. It shouldn't be an issue for the Scorekeeper to both write and speak the time... I sincerely hope!

I'm just as happy with experienced shooters who reload on their own and move the stage along, but regardless, after the firearm's reloaded, I'm on to the cadence - not repeating times.


When i score keep at a match of any sort I always repeat what i am supposed to be writing down. If i hear 2 A 3B 1M i repeat it. As for the time i have had a time or two where a glare on the timers screen or i mis read it and a 9 was on the screen but a 4 is what my mind saw. So making it i the "unnofical guidelines" section for RO's and score keepers is to like you said have it repeated. just my humble opinion

SARDG
08-05-2012, 08:36
When i score keep at a match of any sort I always repeat what i am supposed to be writing down. If i hear 2 A 3B 1M i repeat it. As for the time i have had a time or two where a glare on the timers screen or i mis read it and a 9 was on the screen but a 4 is what my mind saw. So making it i the "unnofical guidelines" section for RO's and score keepers is to like you said have it repeated. just my humble opinion
You're doing it the right way. "Got it" from the Scorekeeper is unacceptable to me and the target scoring should be repeated, too. And when I am shooting, I ask the RO to read the time aloud. I can tell within 1 or perhaps 2 seconds if their perceived time is correct.

Melissa5
08-08-2012, 09:30
Isn't it about time for the finals to be posted? Come on random!

Ocean_glocker
08-09-2012, 21:34
Isn't it about time for the finals to be posted? Come on random!


I've been thinking the same thing, but I think there are 3 events ahead of us waiting on final results...

DannyR
08-09-2012, 23:45
Hopefully, they will be up by the 30th.

SARDG
08-10-2012, 00:10
Hopefully, they will be up by the 30th.
Nope. Dawsonville will be posted next Thursday, 8/16!

Ocean_glocker
08-10-2012, 09:56
Nope. Dawsonville will be posted next Thursday, 8/16!

Awesome! Random for my Birthday??

VOLGRAD
08-10-2012, 12:51
Nope. Dawsonville will be posted next Thursday, 8/16!

Kitty - Is this fact or just wishful thinking?

SARDG
08-10-2012, 13:08
Kitty - Is this fact or just wishful thinking?
Well... let's call it conjecture. That will be 33 days, and many Finals are released on Thursday because GSSF staffers have to get on the road by Friday.

Allegedly it is Cindy Noyes who does all the final posting - but I'm not certain that's a completely true picture.

Anyway, it would be a nice birthday present for Ocean Glocker and we know that GSSF wants him to have a happy B'day. :)

VOLGRAD
08-10-2012, 13:12
Gotcha. Thanks. I was trying to decifer if your post was a guess/prediction/insider knowledge/etc.

SARDG
08-10-2012, 13:22
Gotcha. Thanks. I was trying to decifer if your post was a guess/prediction/insider knowledge/etc.
You can't believe anything you read here... :supergrin:

Danny said 'by the 30th', and that was too long to wait.

Don At PC
08-10-2012, 14:42
You can't believe anything you read here... :supergrin:

Danny said 'by the 30th', and that was too long to wait.

I think what Kitty said was really what many of us call a W.A.G. :rofl::faint: All that salt water has rusted her brain.:tongueout:

Don

SARDG
08-10-2012, 15:04
...All that salt water has rusted her brain.:tongueout:

Don
:freak: :embarassed:

Ocean_glocker
08-12-2012, 16:37
Anyway, it would be a nice birthday present for Ocean Glocker and we know that GSSF wants him to have a happy B'day. :)

That's just too sweet... so where'd ya hide Kitty?

SARDG
08-12-2012, 16:42
That's just too sweet... so where'd ya hide Kitty?
:rofl: Oh, that's brutal... :tongueout: