One more good reason to carry a .40 S&W [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Wurger
07-15-2012, 22:05
A few weeks ago I was out not far from our house (1/4 mile) and I noticed a neighbor outside smashing up some drywall in the yard. These people are always a bit strange and I remember going by and had just a moments thought that I had my little LCP with me. About a week later I was reading the local paper and noticed that a woman was arrested for discharging a firearm inside of her house multiple times. Again, just thought it was a curious thing, didn't raise any red flags in my mind.

Then.....a couple of days ago my wife comes home from walking and states that she had seen one of our friends and she had filled in the blanks. The neighbor I had seen and his wife have been partaking of these substances called "bath-salts". A husband and wife with a young child no less. They had called the police 80+ times in a month to report intruders in their house. Seem that they had convinced themselves that there were people living in their walls. The wife was shooting into the walls to get the intruders and the husband took the drywall from the house and broke it up with a pick-ax in the yard to try and stop the noises they were hearing!!!!

Needless to say I was glad that I had my LCP but I wonder what effect the 7rds of Winchester PDX .380 would have had if called upon to defend my life from a pick wielding drugged up psyco.

Thinking again about a moony gun, CM40, to replace my LCP for most carry situations where the G27 is a bit too big.

Makes you think.

cowboy1964
07-15-2012, 22:23
You may want to shoot a small .40 before you decide. 9mm is a much better choice in a small gun, IMO.

.40 ain't no magic stopper.

Metal Angel
07-15-2012, 22:31
You may want to shoot a small .40 before you decide. 9mm is a much better choice in a small gun, IMO.

.40 ain't no magic stopper.

Not to mention the little Khar 40s have a reputation for failing to return to battery... And exploding if you don't fix it before pulling the trigger again. I would look at 9mm if looking at a Khar. I do like .40s&w. Good cartridge. I stick to 9mm because I'm poor. Lol.

Wurger
07-15-2012, 22:41
You may want to shoot a small .40 before you decide. 9mm is a much better choice in a small gun, IMO.

.40 ain't no magic stopper.

I do like the .40S&W in the Glock 27.

Wurger
07-15-2012, 22:45
Not to mention the little Khar 40s have a reputation for failing to return to battery... And exploding if you don't fix it before pulling the trigger again. I would look at 9mm if looking at a Khar. I do like .40s&w. Good cartridge. I stick to 9mm because I'm poor. Lol.

I've been lurking on the Kahr site for quite a while. Never been too happy about the owner of the company and I know of the problems with the magazines and spotty reliability issues. Some love them, some don't. Do you have a link to a out of battery ka-boom with a PM/CM40?

I stick to 9mm because I'm poor. Lol.
I hear you...but the last time there was an ammo shortage, the 9mm was no where to be seen and I could still pick up .40 for $15 a box of 50 at a couple of local gun shops.

RCP
07-15-2012, 22:47
Meh, I'll stick to .45, got rid of all my .40 stuff a while back.

12131
07-15-2012, 22:51
One more good reason to carry a .40 S&W
Huh? You story gave zero good reason.

Wurger
07-15-2012, 22:52
Maybe a .45 XDs????

Wurger
07-15-2012, 22:53
Huh? You story gave zero good reason.

Huh......you no make sense

Wurger
07-15-2012, 22:55
bath salts today?

NEOH212
07-15-2012, 23:28
I do like the .40S&W in the Glock 27.

Same here. Pound for pound, it's really hard to beat the Glock 27!

The Glock 27 is one of the few Glocks that I actually still like!

NEOH212
07-15-2012, 23:34
A few weeks ago I was out not far from our house (1/4 mile) and I noticed a neighbor outside smashing up some drywall in the yard. These people are always a bit strange and I remember going by and had just a moments thought that I had my little LCP with me. About a week later I was reading the local paper and noticed that a woman was arrested for discharging a firearm inside of her house multiple times. Again, just thought it was a curious thing, didn't raise any red flags in my mind.

Then.....a couple of days ago my wife comes home from walking and states that she had seen one of our friends and she had filled in the blanks. The neighbor I had seen and his wife have been partaking of these substances called "bath-salts". A husband and wife with a young child no less. They had called the police 80+ times in a month to report intruders in their house. Seem that they had convinced themselves that there were people living in their walls. The wife was shooting into the walls to get the intruders and the husband took the drywall from the house and broke it up with a pick-ax in the yard to try and stop the noises they were hearing!!!!

Needless to say I was glad that I had my LCP but I wonder what effect the 7rds of Winchester PDX .380 would have had if called upon to defend my life from a pick wielding drugged up psyco.

Thinking again about a moony gun, CM40, to replace my LCP for most carry situations where the G27 is a bit too big.

Makes you think.


If you think the G27 is far too large to conceal, you need to find a better holster. Try Blade Tech or Raven Concealment.

I carry a HK 45 full size pistol every day and I can conceal it with no problem. I'm just over 5' tall and have a slender build. I can hide the gun under a baggy shirt with no problem with the Raven holster.

When I carry it in the Blade Tech IWB, it disappears almost completely without printing in the least. If I can conceal a full size gun that well, you can do it even better with the Glock 27!

Trust me on that!

mj9mm
07-15-2012, 23:35
i'm thinking maybe a g30 with the big mag, bath salts equal zombies:wow:

Folsom_Prison
07-15-2012, 23:53
10mm FTMFW! Pop one of those baby's off near the zombie pad and it will vaporize! :)

larson1122
07-16-2012, 00:23
10mm FTMFW! Pop one of those baby's off near the zombie pad and it will vaporize! :)

This.
http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r488/larson1122/GIFS/10mm.jpg

svtpwnz
07-16-2012, 00:26
You may want to shoot a small .40 before you decide. 9mm is a much better choice in a small gun, IMO.

.40 ain't no magic stopper.

+1 I had a Kahr MK40 that was very reliable but I just didn't care for the way it shot. I sold it and kept my PM9, however, I carry a G29sf 95% of the time anyway.

Beretta92guy
07-16-2012, 01:05
G27 is my ccw. Loaded w/ Winchester 155 grain Silvertips. A smoking hot load


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Metal Angel
07-16-2012, 01:29
I've been lurking on the Kahr site for quite a while. Never been too happy about the owner of the company and I know of the problems with the magazines and spotty reliability issues. Some love them, some don't. Do you have a link to a out of battery ka-boom with a PM/CM40?


I hear you...but the last time there was an ammo shortage, the 9mm was no where to be seen and I could still pick up .40 for $15 a box of 50 at a couple of local gun shops.

I don't have a link, but I remember someone posted pictures of their (I think it was PM)40 ka-boom. They actually have a little "gas ejection door" on the side that pops off if the gun goes ka-boom. This guy said he sent it back into Kahr and they reattached the door and sent it back to him. It still had FTRTB problems when he got it back.

12131
07-16-2012, 01:32
Huh......you no make sense
Have you provided any concrete evidence that a .40 S&W would defend your life better than your .380? Was there any shooting in your story that supports your thread title? Didn't think so. If you somehow feel that the .40 is somehow the magic bullet that the .380 isn't, why not carry something bigger, like a .45?

Metal Angel
07-16-2012, 01:58
If you think the G27 is far too large to conceal, you need to find a better holster. Try Blade Tech or Raven Concealment.

I carry a HK 45 full size pistol every day and I can conceal it with no problem. I'm just over 5' tall and have a slender build. I can hide the gun under a baggy shirt with no problem with the Raven holster.

When I carry it in the Blade Tech IWB, it disappears almost completely without printing in the least. If I can conceal a full size gun that well, you can do it even better with the Glock 27!

Trust me on that!

Oh yeah? Well I'm four foot nothin, 85 pounds soakin wet and carry a Desert Eagle .50AE with 10 spare mags IWB in nothin but a Speedo every godamn day and it doesn't print at all and no "sheeple" ever notice!





:upeyes:





People have different needs for concealment. Stop telling people they should be able to do what you do.

NeverMore1701
07-16-2012, 02:42
Oh yeah? Well I'm four foot nothin, 85 pounds soakin wet and carry a Desert Eagle .50AE with 10 spare mags IWB in nothin but a Speedo every godamn day and it doesn't print at all and no "sheeple" ever notice!





:upeyes:





People have different needs for concealment. Stop telling people they should be able to do what you do.

http://assets.smokingmeatforums.com/3/30/30154564_butthurt_report_form.jpeg

bac1023
07-16-2012, 04:32
You may want to shoot a small .40 before you decide. 9mm is a much better choice in a small gun, IMO.

.40 ain't no magic stopper.

:agree:

I'm not much of a 40S&W fan anyway.

ithaca_deerslayer
07-16-2012, 05:00
People have different needs for concealment.

True. And sometimes being small build is better than being large build. Lots of differences to consider.

But the OP has a good point about wanting to go up in power. For his neighbors, he might want to consider concealing a 12ga slug gun :)

ggarciatx
07-16-2012, 05:46
in Florida used a .40 and it was not a "one shot stop". There is no magic round. 4 rounds were needed to stop the attack IIRC.

GlockinNJ
07-16-2012, 05:57
Huh......you no make sense

Actually, 12131 makes perfect sense. You're "logic" is totally flawed.

Here's your argument:

"My neighbors are freaks, therefore I need to carry a .40."

The conclusion is not supported by the premise.

This would be better:

"My neighbors are pre-zombie bath salt sniffing psychopaths, therefore I need to carry a gun."

But, not necessarily a .40, unless you provide additional information showing that .40's in particular are the best caliber for taking down hopped up lunatics.

Bruce M
07-16-2012, 05:59
...
.40 ain't no magic stopper.

Agreed. Skill and an ample dose of luck will trump any difference in any of the major calibers with decent ammunition on any given day.

Metal Angel
07-16-2012, 10:57
http://assets.smokingmeatforums.com/3/30/30154564_butthurt_report_form.jpeg

:crying::rofl:

Saved that form on my iPhone!

I'm not butthurt- just sick of hearing people say "I can do it, why can't you?"

M&P15T
07-16-2012, 11:01
One.

Two.

Three.

Four.

I declare a caliber war!!!

Metal Angel
07-16-2012, 11:11
One.

Two.

Three.

Four.

I declare a caliber war!!!

Five.

Six.

Seven.

Eight.

I say nine em em is great!

Airgap
07-16-2012, 11:21
http://assets.smokingmeatforums.com/3/30/30154564_butthurt_report_form.jpeg

I would like to thank you for providing me with the Butt hurt form...

It will come in handy on another forum which I moderate...:supergrin:

Bilbo Bagins
07-16-2012, 11:51
Actually, 12131 makes perfect sense. You're "logic" is totally flawed.

Here's your argument:

"My neighbors are freaks, therefore I need to carry a .40."

The conclusion is not supported by the premise.

This would be better:

"My neighbors are pre-zombie bath salt sniffing psychopaths, therefore I need to carry a gun."

But, not necessarily a .40, unless you provide additional information showing that .40's in particular are the best caliber for taking down hopped up lunatics.

+1

Go from pocket carrying Ruger LCP to a .40 pistol and the OP's next thread will look like this.

My Crazy neighbors are on Bath Salts again, glad I have a .40 on the nightstand.

s&wfan
07-16-2012, 12:28
The .40 S&W is the answer to a question that nobody was asking.

Let's go, people. It's caliber war time!!

Shoot well with what you have. Three rounds of .380 ACP hitting someone in the torso works better than 9 rounds of .40 S&W that almost hit them.

AZ Cat
07-16-2012, 12:46
The .40 S&W is the answer to a question that nobody was asking.

I don't think that's true. I believe the FBI was asking the question...



Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

Metal Angel
07-16-2012, 13:24
I don't think that's true. I believe the FBI was asking the question...



Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

The FBI asked for the 10mm... And they received. Then they realized mere mortals had no business shooting a 10mm and the gods cut the round down to .40 so that we could have yet another handgun caliber.

fnfalman
07-16-2012, 13:33
I can't in good conscience depend on a caliber that is called .40 Short & Weak for personal protection.

zackwatt
07-16-2012, 13:44
http://assets.smokingmeatforums.com/3/30/30154564_butthurt_report_form.jpeg

:rofl: :rofl::rofl:

BuckyP
07-16-2012, 15:32
Maybe a .45 XDs????

I've been very happy with my XDS. Caliber aside, I'd consider a different gun. Either the XDS as you mentioned, or the M&P Shield. These are both getting great reviews by real people using them. the Kahr has had a spotty record. BTW: I have a G27, and my XDS is much more concealable. YMMV.

garya1961
07-16-2012, 17:10
I can't in good conscience depend on a caliber that is called .40 Short & Weak for personal protection.
I doubt you would call a G22 short and weak if you were on the wrong end of it.

Tallahassee
07-16-2012, 20:18
Sounds like a good reason to quit walking by their house to me.

CDR_Glock
07-16-2012, 20:44
Whatever caliber you carry, make sure you can hit at longer distances.

as400guy1
07-16-2012, 20:46
:agree:

I'm not much of a 40S&W fan anyway.

Hey...if you want to carry a 9 mm in your purse, you go right a head miss.

Yankee2718
07-16-2012, 20:57
The closer you can get to rifle-like performance(velocity) the better. People on bath salts will require multiple rounds to stop them, regardless of caliber. They might even take some rifle or shotgun rounds and keep going.

So many people obsess over heavy, deep penetrating bullets. A lot of people also obsess over light and fast bullets. Bullets are designed to transfer energy to a target. A bullet that passes completely through a target is wasting energy. A bullet that penetrates adequately, dumps all of its energy and stays inside the target transfers all of its energy. A .45 that passes completely through a target may only be transferring energy equivalent to a .380. A 9mm that penetrates, expands, and stays inside the target has transferred all of its energy and momentum to the target. This is a hypothesis of mine that I will be trying to test over the next year. Check my blog for a more detailed version.

Nanuk
07-16-2012, 22:02
I don't have a link, but I remember someone posted pictures of their (I think it was PM)40 ka-boom. They actually have a little "gas ejection door" on the side that pops off if the gun goes ka-boom. This guy said he sent it back into Kahr and they reattached the door and sent it back to him. It still had FTRTB problems when he got it back.


Gas ejection door? thats funny.....:rofl:

Nanuk
07-16-2012, 22:05
"My neighbors are freaks, therefore I need to carry a 22mm cannon." B


There I fixed it for ya.

Wurger
07-16-2012, 22:39
Have you provided any concrete evidence that a .40 S&W would defend your life better than your .380? Was there any shooting in your story that supports your thread title? Didn't think so. If you somehow feel that the .40 is somehow the magic bullet that the .380 isn't, why not carry something bigger, like a .45?

Still making no sense....not in the mood for a goofy argument, sorry.

Gosh.....you do post a lot. :cheerleader:

Wurger
07-16-2012, 22:45
If you think the G27 is far too large to conceal, you need to find a better holster. Try Blade Tech or Raven Concealment.
!

I should have given more details....my LCP was in the center pocket of my bicycling jersey. Center of my back. The weight of my G27 pulls quit a bit on my neck in this type of carry(O2 exchange is very important to me while riding). I was thinking of a CM40 as something that may be more do-able while riding.

Gregg702
07-16-2012, 22:46
You're gonna need at least a 155mm howitzer. Take out their whole house before they get a chance to hurt you. It is the only thing with the stopping power you need.

Wurger
07-16-2012, 22:54
You're gonna need at least a 155mm howitzer. Take out their whole house before they get a chance to hurt you. It is the only thing with the stopping power you need.

Why stop there....I think I could pick up some surplus Russian tactical nukes and have a go.


Hmmm...havn't had a chance for a come-back like that in about 40 years.

Wurger
07-16-2012, 22:57
Anyways, I've spent 12 hours at work today looking at the insides of peoples bodies and getting their blood on my hands and shoes. Time for sleep so I can do it again.

ActionExpress
07-16-2012, 23:46
The FBI asked for the 10mm... And they received. Then they realized mere mortals had no business shooting a 10mm and the gods cut the round down to .40 so that we could have yet another handgun caliber.

And than some people got bored with .40, and made 357 Sig.

NeverMore1701
07-16-2012, 23:53
Anyways, I've spent 12 hours at work today looking at the insides of peoples bodies and getting their blood on my hands and shoes. Time for sleep so I can do it again.

If you're getting it on your hands, you're doing something wrong :whistling:

Wurger
07-17-2012, 07:43
If you're getting it on your hands, you're doing something wrong :whistling:

On my gloved hands then.

vetmedglock30
07-17-2012, 09:25
G30 with GD230. 45acp Good for zombies, aliens, druggies, Nazi, thuggery, wild dogs, ect........... Never needs to be adjusted to the occasion. Nothing says stay dead like the 45.

fnfalman
07-17-2012, 09:27
I doubt you would call a G22 short and weak if you were on the wrong end of it.

The grip side when it blows up?

Metal Angel
07-17-2012, 10:22
The closer you can get to rifle-like performance(velocity) the better. People on bath salts will require multiple rounds to stop them, regardless of caliber. They might even take some rifle or shotgun rounds and keep going.

So many people obsess over heavy, deep penetrating bullets. A lot of people also obsess over light and fast bullets. Bullets are designed to transfer energy to a target. A bullet that passes completely through a target is wasting energy. A bullet that penetrates adequately, dumps all of its energy and stays inside the target transfers all of its energy. A .45 that passes completely through a target may only be transferring energy equivalent to a .380. A 9mm that penetrates, expands, and stays inside the target has transferred all of its energy and momentum to the target. This is a hypothesis of mine that I will be trying to test over the next year. Check my blog for a more detailed version.
I disagree. A bullet that passes all the way through has not "wasted" it's energy doing so. A pass through implies an exit wound. Exit wounds are larger and the bullet is probably pulling a bunch of tissue and blood out with it as it exits. I think ideally, the bullet will expand, dump most of its energy, tear a large exit wound, and leave nothing but a small dent in whatever wall it hits on the other side. If it does not exit, you are only going to make one hole, and that hole will be small.

WarEagle32
07-17-2012, 16:16
I use to be all 40 and now I'm all 9. More control and less recoil! A 9 loaded with Corbon DPX's can do basically anything a 40 can and you can put rounds on target much much easier!

SuperSport
07-17-2012, 16:28
I use to be all 40 and now I'm all 9. More control and less recoil! A 9 loaded with Corbon DPX's can do basically anything a 40 can and you can put rounds on target much much easier!

I have a gen 4 G23 and isn't really much more pop than my 9's. Love the dual spring on the gen 4's. Cost is a different story.

dvrdwn72
07-17-2012, 16:28
Id rather carry, and sometimes do, a 22. I mean some people on here said its better to have a round stay inside you right? So why not a 22? Everyone wants a light recoiling, easy to handle handgun to maximize the rounds on target right? :whistling:

Metal Angel
07-17-2012, 16:45
Id rather carry, and sometimes do, a 22. I mean some people on here said its better to have a round stay inside you right? So why not a 22? Everyone wants a light recoiling, easy to handle handgun to maximize the rounds on target right? :whistling:

I hope you mean .22short, because LR would just be excessive.

Yankee2718
07-17-2012, 17:07
I disagree. A bullet that passes all the way through has not "wasted" it's energy doing so. A pass through implies an exit wound. Exit wounds are larger and the bullet is probably pulling a bunch of tissue and blood out with it as it exits. I think ideally, the bullet will expand, dump most of its energy, tear a large exit wound, and leave nothing but a small dent in whatever wall it hits on the other side. If it does not exit, you are only going to make one hole, and that hole will be small.

Just because there are two holes does not necessarily mean there will be more blood and tissue loss/damage. An exit wound is only slightly larger than the entrance wound, normally the size of the expanded projectile.

Internal bleeding has the same effect as external bleeding. A bullet that passes completely through a target has wasted energy. It is using energy to exit the target when that energy could have been transferred to the target.

jrpro130
07-17-2012, 17:27
After all the GSW I seen over the few years I've been on the fire dept, I'm going to say that I've seen both sides of both calibers. Our cops carry glock 22 .40 and I've seen what happens with a few well placed center mass shots. At the same time, the old saying goes I wouldn't want to be hit with either. So pick what you are good with and practice a lot.

I can venture out and say two well placed center mass shots with either 9mm or .40 will most likely be fatal.

Rob1109
07-17-2012, 17:31
You may want to shoot a small .40 before you decide. 9mm is a much better choice in a small gun, IMO.

.40 ain't no magic stopper.

Just buy a 10mm, the real 40!

garya1961
07-17-2012, 17:39
The grip side when it blows up?
So the 40 is weak and the G22 blows up every other shot.
I gues that's why it's used by so many police departments.

jrpro130
07-17-2012, 17:44
Maybe I should clear that up, by "both sides" I mean I've seen people survive with .40 cal GSW to center mass, and I've seen them not survive with 9mm to center mass. Shot placement is key.

Hence my theory of carry what you shoot well.

NeverMore1701
07-17-2012, 17:52
Maybe I should clear that up, by "both sides" I mean I've seen people survive with .40 cal GSW to center mass, and I've seen them not survive with 9mm to center mass. Shot placement is key.

Hence my theory of carry what you shoot well.

And there we have it.

garya1961
07-17-2012, 17:56
Maybe I should clear that up, by "both sides" I mean I've seen people survive with .40 cal GSW to center mass, and I've seen them not survive with 9mm to center mass. Shot placement is key.

Hence my theory of carry what you shoot well.
I don't understand both incidents you describe were shot center of mass. How does shot placement play a factor?

NeverMore1701
07-17-2012, 18:00
I don't understand both incidents you describe were shot center of mass. How does shot placement play a factor?

Obviously, one hit something important and the other did not. So, shot placement.

fnfalman
07-17-2012, 18:10
So the 40 is weak and the G22 blows up every other shot.
I gues that's why it's used by so many police departments.

Hey, the cop chiefs, they gotta mind the budgets.

ozzyma2002
07-17-2012, 18:28
Just wear a mask or helmet of some sort so your face can't be eaten and you should be ok..

jaklcrow
07-17-2012, 18:50
The closer you can get to rifle-like performance(velocity) the better. People on bath salts will require multiple rounds to stop them, regardless of caliber. They might even take some rifle or shotgun rounds and keep going.

So many people obsess over heavy, deep penetrating bullets. A lot of people also obsess over light and fast bullets. Bullets are designed to transfer energy to a target. A bullet that passes completely through a target is wasting energy. A bullet that penetrates adequately, dumps all of its energy and stays inside the target transfers all of its energy. A .45 that passes completely through a target may only be transferring energy equivalent to a .380. A 9mm that penetrates, expands, and stays inside the target has transferred all of its energy and momentum to the target. This is a hypothesis of mine that I will be trying to test over the next year. Check my blog for a more detailed version.

Handgun bullets do not have an energy "dump" effect that causes significant "extra" trauma like rifle rounds. You need to get well past 2k FPS to achieve this.

With a handgun anything other than a psychological stop is all about putting the lights out. The bullet needs to go deep enough and actually hit, brain, heart, etc.

The energy "transfer" from one round to the next and rather or not it exits is a non issue. Either it hits something vital and drops them, or it doesnt. A bullet that passes through the heart and comes out the other side will have the same effect as one that stops dead center.

NH Trucker
07-17-2012, 19:08
One.

Two.

Three.

Four.

I declare a caliber war!!!




But the OP has a good point about wanting to go up in power. For his neighbors, he might want to consider concealing a 12ga slug gun :)



https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/419400_10150696298271649_1354195378_n.jpg


:cool:



You can just push it in a baby stroller and no one will be the wiser. You can even bring a small cooler of beer with you for those longer walks. :whistling:

jrpro130
07-17-2012, 19:51
I don't understand both incidents you describe were shot center of mass. How does shot placement play a factor?

Center mass does not necessarily mean death...we have a skewed perception of this.

Knowing anatomy of organs plays a huge factor. You could hit just your lung or intestines and survive. There is so many factors involved.

Blood loss is number 1 though...



Obviously, one hit something important and the other did not. So, shot placement.

Well said.

Firefightermdc
07-17-2012, 19:51
A .40 cal is really that uncontrollable for most people? I shoot .40 and .357 sig quite often and although I prefer .45, I have zero issues with follow up shots, hands hurting, or uncontrollable recoil. Are the posters full grown men?

garya1961
07-17-2012, 19:59
Hey, the cop chiefs, they gotta mind the budgets.
I think it may be more of the soldier (cop) proof factor.
What I mean is it's basically a point and squeeze gun. Kinda hard to mess that up.

jrpro130
07-17-2012, 20:14
I'm going to add to my statements by posting these pics...

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Internal_organs.png/135px-Internal_organs.png

Typical center mass shot would yield a shot right below the sternum, which there is possible damage to kidneys, liver, stomach, intestines, etc. These are life threatening...and obviously subject to major blood loss. But not as much incapacitation as a shot between the collar bone and xyphoid (high center mass) would be, which you are damaging the heart/aorta and looking at major organ damage.

http://theevolutionstore.com/modules/store/images/products/product_630_630_2.jpg

I'm not a doctor by any means, but this is a really interesting topic to me so I've done a lot of research on it...you guys caught my interest!

byf43
07-17-2012, 20:45
Two or more hits in the 'pump' (heart) and in the 'computer room' (brain) with 9mm beats a BUNCH of misses with .40 S&W.


I shoot both and I have carried both calibers.


I do like the .40 S&W round (it's very popular with the police, nowadays, btw - duh!), but, with 124 gr Federal HST rounds in my G26, I'm quite comfortable carrying it.

Ammo selection. Ability to hit what you are aiming at. The mindset to use that firearm (or other weapon) and training are most important.

CDR_Glock
07-17-2012, 21:32
I'm going to add to my statements by posting these pics...

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Internal_organs.png/135px-Internal_organs.png

Typical center mass shot would yield a shot right below the sternum, which there is possible damage to kidneys, liver, stomach, intestines, etc. These are life threatening...and obviously subject to major blood loss. But not as much incapacitation as a shot between the collar bone and xyphoid (high center mass) would be, which you are damaging the heart/aorta and looking at major organ damage.

http://theevolutionstore.com/modules/store/images/products/product_630_630_2.jpg

I'm not a doctor by any means, but this is a really interesting topic to me so I've done a lot of research on it...you guys caught my interest!

Even with cardiac perforation or even pericardial tamponade, a person can still have the volition to fire rounds at you. A person can have as many as 20-30 seconds. People don't just drop dead unless you get the Basal Ganglia or the Brain Stem. You're talking about targets that are just 2-3 cm (spinal cord) or a few cm (the basal ganglia).

No handgun can be as effective as 00 or 000 12 gauge or .308 to the center of the chest or head. Handgun caliber wars are overrated. Better yet, Drones are even quite effective, these days.

owl6roll
07-17-2012, 23:00
i'm thinking maybe a g30 with the big mag, bath salts equal zombies:wow:

And an extra magazine, or 3.

Wurger
07-17-2012, 23:12
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/419400_10150696298271649_1354195378_n.jpg


:cool:



You can just push it in a baby stroller and no one will be the wiser. You can even bring a small cooler of beer with you for those longer walks. :whistling:

I like the way you think! :wow:

I have a big jogging stroller, I could carry 2 spare magazines and the bigger wheels would help if I still needed to beat a hasty retreat after running empty. :embarassed:

Wurger
07-17-2012, 23:19
Just heard some 'popping' noises in the general direction of the neighbors house.

1:00am

Maybe the wall people are back.

jaklcrow
07-17-2012, 23:35
Just heard some 'popping' noises in the general direction of the neighbors house.

1:00am

Maybe the wall people are back.

O boy, haha

Gregg702
07-18-2012, 00:44
Just heard some 'popping' noises in the general direction of the neighbors house.

1:00am

Maybe the wall people are back.

Better break out the bazooka, just in case.

gatorboy
07-18-2012, 13:44
.40 is very controllable in 180 gr. If you've only tried 155-165 gr. then you've missed the softest shooting loads out there. The 45 ACP in all but standard pressure 230 gr. recoils more - IMO, as always of course.