Ok, I think I decided on .380... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Metal Angel
07-15-2012, 23:12
So I have been looking for a pocket gun for a long time now... My funds don't exactly allow me to buy a gun on a whim, so I do tons of research while I save up.

A couple years ago, when I first started carrying, my philosophy was "buy the biggest thing I can carry". So I bought a Glock 19. That philosophy has merit, because it ensures I have plenty of firepower- except when the 19 is too big to carry- and then I'm really under gunned.

Which brings me to the philosophy for my next purchase. "Buy something I will have no excuse not to carry. A J-frame is probably small enough, but I can still imagine myself leaving it behind sometimes, and I want something I will never leave behind. So .380 it is. Not real fond of the round, but my 19 will still be on me as often as possible.

I think I have decided on the LCP. Good reputation, tiny, cheap... But it's not real attractive... Any others I should look at? I decided against the Sig 238 for now- if my carry gun has a safety, I want it ambi, and by the time you get ambi safeties on the 238 it's too thick. Not really into the Bodygaurd... It's even less attractive than the LCP IMO. I think the NAA guardian looks neat, but I don't know anything about it... Does anyone else? I'm oddly attracted to the MRI Micro Deagle... Again, haven't heard anything about it. I know it's blowback which would restrict me to standard pressure loads (right?) and may affect reliability...

Anyone have experience with any of these guns? Or know any I should be considering? Which would YOU get?

bustedknee
07-15-2012, 23:48
I cracked up when I saw the ad,
"The .380 was a cute fad. NOW SPRINGFIELD ARMORY GETS BACK TO BUSINESS.”

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/04/robert-farago/question-of-the-day-is-the-springfield-xd-s-the-next-big-little-thing/


Pretty much sums it up for me.


I experienced penetration failures in extreme cold weather with a 380! Maybe it was the cold, maybe it was the ammo, or maybe it was the backstop.

However, 9mm punched on through.


Now, if I am dressed to where I can't conceal at least a 9mm I go back and dress different.

If I really must go smaller and lighter I use a S&W 360PD. That little J-frame in my short's pocket has never pulled my pants down.


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d98/leflers/DSCF0481.jpg

Specifications -
Caliber: .357 Magnum, .38 Special +P, .38 Special
Action: revolving chamber
Length: 6.375 in
Width: 1.312 in
Height: 4.25 in
Cylinder Capacity: 5 rounds
Barrel Length: 1.875 in
Rifling: 5-grooves, RH twist
Trigger: double-action
Sights: red ramp front, fixed notch rear
Weight Empty: 11.3 oz
Weight Loaded: 13.7oz

Features -
Titanium cylinder.
Scandium/aluminum alloy frame.
Black anodized finish.
Stainless steel barrel tube.
Hogue Bantam Monogrip.



I'll bet your family is worth the extra hassle and expense

Andrewsky
07-15-2012, 23:52
Get an LCP.

WayaX
07-15-2012, 23:52
I'm with bustedknee. I prefer a J-frame for a tiny gun (smaller than a sub-compact). I've handled the mouse-guns, and they just didn't do it for me.

Teecher45
07-15-2012, 23:53
I've had 2 LCP's and they were both great guns. I just didn't like the round. I ended-up with a PF9 and couldn't be happier.
If you decide to stick with the .380 you won't be disappointed with the LCP.
Oh, and seriously consider these:
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=216

rednoved
07-15-2012, 23:56
When I read that I had to check the username because I could have posted the exact same thing. For me, G19 for normal carry. The LCP is my second option if I can't carry the G19. It is super easy to conceal and throw in my pocket. I had a tough time choosing between the Sig P238 or the Ruger LCP, but decided to go with the LCP. The size and weight is really what sold me. Price wasn't bad either.

When I was considering the Sig P238, I also looked at the P239. I was thinking, well it's only a tad bigger, but it would be a 9mm. I started playing just a little bit bigger game, and started considering the G26 as a pocket gun. That's when I decided that I really just wanted the smallest and lightest of the bunch and the .380 ACP should do just fine. If I couldn't carry my G19, I wanted a gun I could for sure carry.

Metal Angel
07-16-2012, 01:43
When I read that I had to check the username because I could have posted the exact same thing. For me, G19 for normal carry. The LCP is my second option if I can't carry the G19. It is super easy to conceal and throw in my pocket. I had a tough time choosing between the Sig P238 or the Ruger LCP, but decided to go with the LCP. The size and weight is really what sold me. Price wasn't bad either.

When I was considering the Sig P238, I also looked at the P239. I was thinking, well it's only a tad bigger, but it would be a 9mm. I started playing just a little bit bigger game, and started considering the G26 as a pocket gun. That's when I decided that I really just wanted the smallest and lightest of the bunch and the .380 ACP should do just fine. If I couldn't carry my G19, I wanted a gun I could for sure carry.

Yes. Exactly. If my G19 is too big for a particular ensemble, the G26, PPS, Shield, XDS, etc... are too big also. If I can carry in my waistband, my G19 conceals just fine. If I can't conceal it in my waistband, I can't conceal anything in my waistband.

The main purpose of this firearm is for work. I'm an HVAC tech and often have to bend over in front of customers... I tried my 19 IWB for a while and in the winter, I can kind of make it work with a jacket, but in the summer I have to bend at all kinds of strange angles to make the grip stay discrete. But the last straw was when I got stuck under a duct because my G19 grip was sticking up as I went crawling under. I have to overcome a little bit of claustrophobia for my job anyway, and I don't need something sticking out getting hung up on stuff when I'm crawling.

I will get a J-frame someday as well, but I can foresee issues with the cylinder gouging my leg while I'm crawling, so I want something flat for now. Can't get much flatter than the LCP.

The_Gun_Guru
07-16-2012, 03:23
My dad carries a Kel-Tec PF-9 in a pocket holster and loves it! GREAT GUN TOO!!!

Also check out the Kahr CM9 for around $400.

TGG

Bob Hafler
07-16-2012, 04:39
My EDC is a Kahr PM9, but there are those times when I need to deep CC and nothing fits my needs like my Kel Tec P3at. I've owned it now for about three years and it's been very reliable with about 800 to 1000 round through it. Still has every original part still in it..

4 glocks
07-16-2012, 11:31
I have a G26, Kahr CM9, J frame, and LCP. Nothing carries like the LCP. Get the LCP you can not go wrong. 7 .380's will do the job in a SD situation.

Dawolf
07-16-2012, 11:42
I love my PPK, unbelievably accurate, but I am realistic, it is still a 380. The DA is horrible, but SA very good. LCP DA always sucks. The good news is that LAPD approved the 380 as a B.U.G. if loaded with Hornady Critical Defense.

Metal Angel
07-16-2012, 12:53
I love my PPK, unbelievably accurate, but I am realistic, it is still a 380. The DA is horrible, but SA very good. LCP DA always sucks. The good news is that LAPD approved the 380 as a B.U.G. if loaded with Hornady Critical Defense.

The PPK is one of the sexiest autos ever IMO and some day I will have to own one, however, from a practical standpoint there are many 9mm pistols as small as a PPK these days. I want smaller.

hoghunter82
07-16-2012, 14:12
My man, I went down this road multiple times with various .380s and have had nothing but heartache. I'd LOVE to be able to carry a reliable .380 for the sheer size, but I simply have not found one yet. You name it, I tried it. I decided to go with a Ruger LCR .38+p and am very happy. Still like the tiny size of the .380s but not worth any more frustration and wasted ammo.


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sourdough44
07-16-2012, 14:40
An LCP with a Nemesis pocket holster. Ladies have their 'lite days', we can too. One just has to be aware of the limitations, & use the best ammo available(90 grn Speer & similar). When it comes to 'deep cover', the LCP is the ticket.

The_Gun_Guru
07-16-2012, 14:42
My EDC is a Kahr PM9, but there are those times when I need to deep CC and nothing fits my needs like my Kel Tec P3at. I've owned it now for about three years and it's been very reliable with about 800 to 1000 round through it. Still has every original part still in it..


Same goes for my P-32 but I have owned it for about five years. Keep it clean and it will be ready to defend your life effectively!!!


My man, I went down this road multiple times with various .380s and have had nothing but heartache. I'd LOVE to be able to carry a reliable .380 for the sheer size, but I simply have not found one yet. You name it, I tried it. I decided to go with a Ruger LCR .38+p and am very happy. Still like the tiny size of the .380s but not worth any more frustration and wasted ammo.

I think snubbie .38s are a waste of money - a small 9mm is the better way to go.....IMO.


TGG

Metal Angel
07-16-2012, 15:39
I think snubbie .38s are a waste of money - a small 9mm is the better way to go.....IMO.
TGG

I agree with you for the most part. You can get a 9mm these days just as small as a snubbie and you have a longer barrel, more capacity, and faster reloads.

However, I do think there is something to be said for a revolvers ability to work properly no matter who is grabbing it or what it is shoved up against. I suppose if someone grabbed the cylinder hard enough it would be difficult to pull the trigger... But that seems somewhat unlikely.

dcc12
07-16-2012, 16:22
Say what you want about the 380, First shooting I ever worked as a paramedic was a woman that was shot with a 380. She was very dead when we got there and she remained as such all the way to the Trauma Center.

ActionExpress
07-16-2012, 16:44
Say what you want about the 380, First shooting I ever worked as a paramedic was a woman that was shot with a 380. She was very dead when we got there and she remained as such all the way to the Trauma Center.

Yep, not to mention a certain fascist ended his own life with a .32.

hoghunter82
07-16-2012, 16:50
To clarify, I am in no way arguing the lethality of the .380 or .32 for that matter. I am simply referring to the functionality in my own personal experience. The LCR works for me functionally and I don't have any concerns about the lethality.


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HeliGlock
07-16-2012, 17:13
Walther PPK in the 380, is a Excellent Choice. 1000 Rounds thru mine in the last 4 months, and not a Hiccup. Down here works Great with the Heat, and a perfect pocket gun. Just my 2 cents.

G26S239
07-16-2012, 17:22
I know the 38 snubbies have more power but the LCP is considerably slimmer, shorter and lighter when loaded. Mine is loaded with 102 grain Remington Golden Sabers.

http://i46.tinypic.com/1498unn.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/10z6bes.jpg

If I need something smaller than my 26 with more power than the LCP I have the MK9.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2vljol0.jpg

hogship
07-16-2012, 17:24
I have a G26, Kahr CM9, J frame, and LCP. Nothing carries like the LCP. Get the LCP you can not go wrong. 7 .380's will do the job in a SD situation.

My thoughts, too........!

The LCP is just the right size to always carry, no matter what.....thin, light, small......that's what works.

I have the LCP, but if I were to do it over, I would think about one of similar size, but have the last shot slide lock. I think the Kahr P380 and Smith Bodyguard are the same size.......

My LCP has been perfection in reliability......

ooc

http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL431/781008/1425902/365164513.jpg
L to R: NAA Guardian 32acp, smaller yet, but 32.... LCP.... Kahr MK40, power enough to make you feel comfortable about it, but not quite small enough for comfortable carry in the pocket with anything but cargo pants, a bit on the heavy side, too......When I carry the MK40, it's usually in a Crossbreed Supertuck, or OWB.....works well there.
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL431/781008/1425902/365872226.jpg

IvanVic
07-16-2012, 17:52
LCP, Kahr P380. Both are nice pocket guns.

RYT 2BER
07-16-2012, 18:01
God I love these threads... I agree that the .380 isn't exactly a show stopper but id love to see one of these guys who talk about how weak it is, to stand in front of one, and then get their opinion.

deputy tom
07-16-2012, 18:16
When I absolutely can't afford to be made I carry a P-32 in my pocket.An LCP would probably work too if I didn't already have the kel-tec. YMMV.tom.:cool:

porschedog
07-16-2012, 18:20
+1 more for the LCP

G23Gen4.40
07-16-2012, 18:38
Another vote for the LCP. It is my go to gun when I need something really small or for quick day time trips to the store. Practically disappears in a pocket.

That said, I prefer to carry my G27 or G23

Dan Glock
07-16-2012, 18:41
I can't wait to get my LCP soon I believe it'll be perfect for something quick and easy.

garya1961
07-16-2012, 19:12
I prefer the Kel Tec 3AT, no safety. I also have a PF9 but I can carry the 3at in my watch pocket.

bac1023
07-16-2012, 19:52
I've had a KelTec P3AT for many years and its been great.

Caver 60
07-16-2012, 23:19
You'll probably be well satisfied with the LCP.

I've got two P3AT's one first generation with way over 3,000 rounds through it since I quit counting at 3,000. During the first 500 rounds I had numerous problems with it, which I solved. ETA it been 100% since.

My second generation P3AT didn't take much to solve a minor problem during the first few rounds. After that it's been 100% for way over 1,000 rounds since I quit counting.

However I also have an older Walther PP. Biggest drawback with the old Walther is the fact it's a straight blowback. I swear it kicks harder than my P3AT's, even with all that steel in the pistol.

Metal Angel
07-17-2012, 02:05
However I also have an older Walther PP. Biggest drawback with the old Walther is the fact it's a straight blowback. I swear it kicks harder than my P3AT's, even with all that steel in the pistol.

You are not the first person I have heard this from. Everyone says blowback pistols smack your hand pretty good, regardless of their weak caliber. This is one more reason I will probably steer clear of the MRI Micro Deagle, even though I think it looks pretty sexy.

Rustin
07-17-2012, 11:59
Justt change the last letter in that acromym.

LCR

Bob Hafler
07-17-2012, 14:15
I once dove into a pool with my Parkerized 2nd gen P3at in my pocket. Oops.
I emptied the gun blew it dry with a shopvac relubed it with what ever oil the guy had in the garage and it still never missed a beat. If this one ever decides it doesn't want to work anymore I'll go out and buy another one just like it.
IMO very underrated little pistols.

eracer
07-17-2012, 14:31
Paraphrased from a recent news article.
---------------------------------------------------

As _ Henderson_ turns his back, _ Williams _ pulls out a .380-caliber semi-automatic handgun, stands up from his chair, and fires two shots at _ Henderson_, who bolts for the front door.

_Williams _ takes several more steps toward the door and continues firing as _ Henderson _ and _ Dawkins _ fall over one another trying to exit the building. The two eventually run off screen.

Both men were shot by _ Williams_.

Their wounds were not life-threatening.
--------------------------------------------------------

I'm just saying...

Metal Angel
07-17-2012, 14:54
Paraphrased from a recent news article.
---------------------------------------------------

As _ Henderson_ turns his back, _ Williams _ pulls out a .380-caliber semi-automatic handgun, stands up from his chair, and fires two shots at _ Henderson_, who bolts for the front door.

_Williams _ takes several more steps toward the door and continues firing as _ Henderson _ and _ Dawkins _ fall over one another trying to exit the building. The two eventually run off screen.

Both men were shot by _ Williams_.

Their wounds were not life-threatening.
--------------------------------------------------------

I'm just saying...

If a wound is reported as "not life threatening", usually it means they were hit in an area of their body that is not crucial for survival. This particular person was probably grazed or shot in the hand or arm or something.

My roommate in college worked for the Orange County DA office and he would often bring home the press releases for me to read. Lots of shootings. Most with .22LR. Lots of quick deaths. I'm not saying I want a .22LR, I'm saying I want my Glock 19. But when I don't have it, I would rather have something than nothing. .380s come in very small packages... If I have a .380, I will always carry it.

bigtimelarry
07-22-2012, 09:36
Get an LCP 380 put Hornaday Critical Defense in it. Get the pearce extended magazine grip and a Fobus or Ready Holster. You'll forget you have it on its so light.

TxGun
07-23-2012, 02:20
I like my PPK/S .380 for easy concealment. It's short, thin, yet still feels substantial. Plus mine has always been extremely reliable. But I realize the PP-series Walthers aren't for everybody, and that some feel they are too heavy. Certainly there are smaller and lighter pocket guns to choose from...I just haven't found one I like as much as the Walther.

English
07-23-2012, 05:12
God I love these threads... I agree that the .380 isn't exactly a show stopper but id love to see one of these guys who talk about how weak it is, to stand in front of one, and then get their opinion.

We see this argument again and again but it is false or at best half true. Very few rational criminals with time to think will choose to continue a criminal act if they are about to be shot with anything unless they are wearing bullet proof armour. If, on the other hand, someone is determined to attack you or does not have time to react to your threat then you need something which will stop their attack as it is happening. In order of increasing effectiveness per shot, that goes approximately 22LR, .32ACP, .380ACP, 38Sp, 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, 357SIG and 10mm with .357Mag, .44Sp, .45 and .44Mag scattered around the top end depending on load.

This isn't knocking mouse guns, I like them and own three, but bigger is better for most purposes if you can carry them. It is a shame about the general lack of reliability of the Diamond Backs because they are a better fundamental design for a mouse or rat gun.

English

Bilbo Bagins
07-23-2012, 07:19
I would also lean toward the LCP. I already have a Kel Tec P32 , a P3at and a Sig P238. The LCP is basically a nicer P3at.

The P32 is a neat gun, but in terms of ballistics .32acp is a real light and HP will usually not expand. Also you have to worry about rim lock. The Sig P238 is a nice gun to shoot, but not the best gun to pocket carry. When you factor in the weight and size of the Sigp238 and how to best carry a single action pistol safely you are better off with a Kahr PM9/CM9.

byf43
07-23-2012, 07:43
God I love these threads... I agree that the .380 isn't exactly a show stopper but id love to see one of these guys who talk about how weak it is, to stand in front of one, and then get their opinion.


You sound like my CCW instructor.
He drew a Ruger LCP out of his pocket and said virtually the same thing.

I told him, "No, you go stand over there, and let ME shoot YOU with it. Knowing the way you shoot, you'll just hit me in the foot, and make me a cripple! At least I'll hit you in the torso."

:supergrin:

wjv
07-23-2012, 11:20
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i303/bcvojak/RVNet02/calibers.jpg

RYT 2BER
07-23-2012, 12:24
We see this argument again and again but it is false or at best half true. Very few rational criminals with time to think will choose to continue a criminal act if they are about to be shot with anything unless they are wearing bullet proof armour. If, on the other hand, someone is determined to attack you or does not have time to react to your threat then you need something which will stop their attack as it is happening. In order of increasing effectiveness per shot, that goes approximately 22LR, .32ACP, .380ACP, 38Sp, 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, 357SIG and 10mm with .357Mag, .44Sp, .45 and .44Mag scattered around the top end depending on load.

This isn't knocking mouse guns, I like them and own three, but bigger is better for most purposes if you can carry them. It is a shame about the general lack of reliability of the Diamond Backs because they are a better fundamental design for a mouse or rat gun.

English


I agree and bigger generally is better, but when it isnt realistic for whatever reason, these little guns are certainly not going to dissapoint...

Again it comes down to the threat... If you're 5 feet from a guy holding up a 7-11 and you have the chance to fire, more than likely its gonna get your point across just fine... Depending on the shot, the bad guy may also be very dead.

If you are in a situation where three terrorists are going berzerk in a public place and your life is in jeopardy, admitedly the 380 isnt going to do a whole lot..

ChicagoZman
07-23-2012, 12:37
The OP already made his decision and is just asking for recommendations on WHICH .380 to get. I would choose, in this order, the Taurus 738, Ruger LCP and Kel Tec. They're all inexpensive, they all work well and they're all very concealable. Taurus wins in my opinion based on the trigger and the slide stop.

Bilbo Bagins
07-23-2012, 14:09
The OP already made his decision and is just asking for recommendations on WHICH .380 to get. I would choose, in this order, the Taurus 738, Ruger LCP and Kel Tec. They're all inexpensive, they all work well and they're all very concealable. Taurus wins in my opinion based on the trigger and the slide stop.

I recently bought the TCP on a lark since they were locally selling the black slide version with one mag for $220, and I am shocked how well the gun shoots. The trigger is long but not heavy. The sights are just a hair bigger and better then the LCP/P3at and with the nice grip its recoil is similar to the Sigp238 while being 4oz lighter.

I still for the life of me cannot figure out why the Ruger LCP has a manual slide lock and no last shot hold open, while the Taurus TCP is the same size and locks open at the last shot. :dunno:

NEOH212
07-23-2012, 19:47
Ok, I think I decided on .380...

I'm sorry.

gjk5
07-23-2012, 20:35
.380:

When you absolutely, positively want to maybe kill Ethiopians or rodents.

Anemic caliber plus unreliable tiny semi-auto=WIN.

kevinfromwebb
07-23-2012, 21:07
I've got the KelTec P3AT and the PF9 for carry... The P3AT is really easy to carry and has been very reliable as has the PF9... Break them in with a couple hundred rounds and keep them clean and they work great, I would recommend them both... I prefer them over the Ruger models as the grip texture is better for me than the Rugers... The DA trigger isn't as nice as my Glocks but with a little practice they work for what they're made for...
Just my .02...

Kevin

mgs
10-23-2012, 17:27
Just fired my Taurus TCP 738 stainless today and it ran 100% and is accurate. PMC Bronze Ball and Hornady FTX worked perfect and same point of aim at 7yds. I'm very happy with it for a pocket gun.

bustedknee
10-24-2012, 00:23
God I love these threads... I agree that the .380 isn't exactly a show stopper but id love to see one of these guys who talk about how weak it is, to stand in front of one, and then get their opinion.

Think about it. This is about the silliest argument ever used in this type of discussion.

I'm not choosing a caliber/gun to be shot with,
I'm choosing a caliber/gun to use on a 300-lb crazed junkie and a couple of his friends. They may be wearing parkas or in a vehicle....

I see a mouse gun more as backup to a real defensive weapon.


I owned a Tomcat .32 auto some years ago. I was carrying it because it was convenient, light and easy to conceal.
I left the house one day going to deal with a situation in which I knew there was a very good chance the Tomcat just might be needed.
A cold chill ran down my spine. I went back in the house for a Glock compact in 357Sig.
That afternoon the Tomcat went up for sale. I have not missed it.

You may feel safe walking around with one of those little pea-shooters and nothing else. I just hope you never have to use it.
If you do have to use it, be sure to explain to the bad guy (like you explained to us) how much it is going to hurt. :animlol:



BTW, I don't want to get stung by a hornet or get poked in the eye with a Popsicle stick. That does not make either of them a good defensive weapon.

RYT 2BER
10-24-2012, 04:33
Think about it. This is about the silliest argument ever used in this type of discussion.

I'm not choosing a caliber/gun to be shot with,
I'm choosing a caliber/gun to use on a 300-lb crazed junkie and a couple of his friends. They may be wearing parkas or in a vehicle....

I see a mouse gun more as backup to a real defensive weapon.


I owned a Tomcat .32 auto some years ago. I was carrying it because it was convenient, light and easy to conceal.
I left the house one day going to deal with a situation in which I knew there was a very good chance the Tomcat just might be needed.
A cold chill ran down my spine. I went back in the house for a Glock compact in 357Sig.
That afternoon the Tomcat went up for sale. I have not missed it.

You may feel safe walking around with one of those little pea-shooters and nothing else. I just hope you never have to use it.
If you do have to use it, be sure to explain to the bad guy (like you explained to us) how much it is going to hurt. :animlol:



BTW, I don't want to get stung by a hornet or get poked in the eye with a Popsicle stick. That does not make either of them a good defensive weapon.




Like i said it isn't a showstopper but better than nothing. As far as the argument that a hornet sting or Popsicle stick will hurt, a 380 is still a gun.. A gun that kills and has killed LOTS of people, and as a matter of fact outside the USA a gun that apparently many police carry.

We can agree to disagree.. I generally try to carry my 10mm as much as possible and that's the other end of the spectrum.. But I'm quite sure that if you unload an lcp into that 300 lb crazed junkie in a parka, he'll be quite dead.

DustyJacket
10-24-2012, 04:47
the LCP is great for deep cover carry.
I have owned two.

Just practice.
Practice, practice, practice.

Shot placement is the secret.

If you aim between the eyebrows, you can be off by 3 inches in any direction and still stop the threat. Then the throat. Lastly the chest cavity.

Having a small gun is better than having no gun.

mgs
10-24-2012, 05:17
Think about it. This is about the silliest argument ever used in this type of discussion.

I'm not choosing a caliber/gun to be shot with,
I'm choosing a caliber/gun to use on a 300-lb crazed junkie and a couple of his friends. They may be wearing parkas or in a vehicle....

I see a mouse gun more as backup to a real defensive weapon.


I owned a Tomcat .32 auto some years ago. I was carrying it because it was convenient, light and easy to conceal.
I left the house one day going to deal with a situation in which I knew there was a very good chance the Tomcat just might be needed.
A cold chill ran down my spine. I went back in the house for a Glock compact in 357Sig.
That afternoon the Tomcat went up for sale. I have not missed it.

You may feel safe walking around with one of those little pea-shooters and nothing else. I just hope you never have to use it.
If you do have to use it, be sure to explain to the bad guy (like you explained to us) how much it is going to hurt. :animlol:



BTW, I don't want to get stung by a hornet or get poked in the eye with a Popsicle stick. That does not make either of them a good defensive weapon.




No human wants shot by anything....we're not talking big game animals on crack. Most of us do not carry a small gun looking to walk into a situation. I just shot 7 Hornady 380 FTX Hollow points into dry phonebooks and got perfect expansion and 6 to 8 inches of penetration. These .380's expanded to over .45. I'm good with that for a backup gun or summer carry. Some gun is better than no gun. It is also a very accurate one hand gun at 7yds.

Bob Hafler
10-24-2012, 05:32
MA with what you do for a living I'd highly recommend getting a LCP or a p3at. They might not be the perfect SD pistol, but they are designed to do exactly what your talking about. Deep, Comfortable CC. They carry like no other pistol. They're inexpensive enough where if it gets scratched or a little beat up cosmetically it doesn't matter. My P3at has more than a few scratches in it, and it just doesn't matter as they are mearly just another tool you need to do your job with some security. My advice would be find the one you can get the best deal on and go with it. Basically there the same pistol. IMO I'd buy the P3at as I believe it has the better trigger. However if I was going for looks I'd buy the LCP. Good Luck

Bilbo Bagins
10-24-2012, 08:06
No human wants shot by anything....we're not talking big game animals on crack. Most of us do not carry a small gun looking to walk into a situation. I just shot 7 Hornady 380 FTX Hollow points into dry phonebooks and got perfect expansion and 6 to 8 inches of penetration. These .380's expanded to over .45. I'm good with that for a backup gun or summer carry. Some gun is better than no gun. It is also a very accurate one hand gun at 7yds.

That is what I use. Good expansion and penetration for a .380

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm

Hornady Critical Defense .380 ACP 90 gr Ammo Test - YouTube

J_Rico
10-24-2012, 08:20
So, did the OP make a decision?

coachg
10-24-2012, 08:26
Paraphrased from a recent news article.
---------------------------------------------------

As _ Henderson_ turns his back, _ Williams _ pulls out a .380-caliber semi-automatic handgun, stands up from his chair, and fires two shots at _ Henderson_, who bolts for the front door.

_Williams _ takes several more steps toward the door and continues firing as _ Henderson _ and _ Dawkins _ fall over one another trying to exit the building. The two eventually run off screen.

Both men were shot by _ Williams_.

Their wounds were not life-threatening.
--------------------------------------------------------

I'm just saying...


Here's the video of that event. Taurus TCP 380. Shows how mindset can be more important than the caliber.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/19/florida-customer-who-shot-suspects-during-internet-cafe-robbery-will-not-face/

dukeblue91
10-24-2012, 09:06
A few years ago I was taking a course in Russian marshal arts and protection services called Systema taught by a Russian special forces guy and trainer.
He also owned and operated a protection / security company.
One of the discussions we had was about the difference in philosophies between the eastern block and western parts when it comes to guns and handling them.
It did open my eyes to some things.
Most security details and special forces back then where using Makarov's and we talked about how most everyone in the western part of the world was thinking that bigger was better.
Considering that most countries back then where using .380 and .32 acp in police guns it makes sense you know like Germany had the Walther PP and many other countries had them or the Makarov as duty weapons and never felt under powered.

The other differences he pointed out was the general handling and shooting of guns.
He could not understand why everyone in the US was always holding the guns out so far from their bodies, like the weaver stance and such, and shared and trained me to hold the gun close to my body and shoot that way too.
It is way faster and less likely to have the gun taken away or moved away from you.
It took me a while to learn to shoot and handle the gun this close to my body but I got there eventually.
Not to make too much out of this but I would be quite fine with a .380 as my carry gun.

If you like you can do a google search for Major Konstantin Komarov Systema.
As I said this was years ago.

Bob Hafler
10-24-2012, 09:16
I often carry a 1987 CZ 82 that fires the 9X18 Makarov round. Hornady makes a very good HP round in the 9X18.

KIDRAY
10-24-2012, 09:22
I looked at the Kahr, Kel Tek, Ruger, Colt, Smith & Wesson, Sig Sauer. I purchased a S & W Bodyguard 380 auto. The long trigger pull makes it a good conceal piece, along with the double strike capability. I then purchased the Sig P238, very impressed with the accuracy and feel of it. Small enough to ankle carry, and very trustworthy. After handling a Sig P938 9 mm at a local gun show, it too followed me home. slightly heavier and longer than the P238, fits the same ankle holster, and now is my primary carry weapon. I still own the Bodyguard 380, not that it is a substandard handgun, I just love the feel and quality of both the Sig P238 & P938. :thumbsup:
Just my 2 cents about the 380 auto, with a little 9mm added in. To be honest I did consider purchasing the Ruger 380 auto, the uncomfortable grip and horrible sight setup. Kel Tek ~>:rofl: Kahr ~>:rofl:Colt Mustang 380 auto, the non adjustable front sight, major downfall. safe shooting and good day.:grill:

fwm
10-24-2012, 17:55
I would also lean toward the LCP. I already have a Kel Tec P32 , a P3at and a Sig P238. The LCP is basically a nicer P3at.

The P32 is a neat gun, but in terms of ballistics .32acp is a real light and HP will usually not expand. Also you have to worry about rim lock. The Sig P238 is a nice gun to shoot, but not the best gun to pocket carry. When you factor in the weight and size of the Sigp238 and how to best carry a single action pistol safely you are better off with a Kahr PM9/CM9.

IMHO Expansion is overrated. PENETRATION is what does the job.
If a round can both penetrate AND expand, great. But the 32 and 380 are a little under-powered in my experience. I have several of each, but I shot ball ammo in them both. Don't want 3" of penetration and expansion, I want 12" of penetration.

Paul7
10-24-2012, 21:13
Try the new Colt Mustang.

I had an LCP, it was a complete POS.

RYT 2BER
10-24-2012, 22:01
IMHO Expansion is overrated. PENETRATION is what does the job.
If a round can both penetrate AND expand, great. But the 32 and 380 are a little under-powered in my experience. I have several of each, but I shot ball ammo in them both. Don't want 3" of penetration and expansion, I want 12" of penetration.

Video above shows almost 12 inches with full expansion through 4 layers of denim.

3 inches of penetration with wild expansion out of a 380... C'mon... Get real. :upeyes:

There is much more to a shooting... Terminal damage is terminal damage:

FMJ vs JHP The Difference - YouTube