Frame curved and jammed after firing [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ejayisson
07-16-2012, 16:44
Today I took my Glock 22 Gen4(5000 rounds since March 2012) out to the range and experienced an issue. I loaded with Tulammo, pulled the slide back to chamber a round, and fired. On the first shot the slide locked back, frame curved, and jammed. It ejected the case from the first round, and had the next one partially out of the mag.

As soon as it jammed I went to clear(chamber was clear of any rounds). I couldn't release the slide. Had to place barrel on table to force it down to release the frame from being curved before it either cracked or was damaged more. Once I did that I was able to cycle the slide, and the frame straightened out again(besides the pig nose). However I can not pull down on the slide lock tabs to disassemble the gun.

I'm assuming its possible I didn' put the spring back into the half moon when I cleaned it last. I'm usually very good about it, but mistakes happen. After cleaning I do cycle the slide a few times to make sure its smooth and to distribute any oil on the rails. I didn't feel any issues when I did that, nor when loading that first round. I also cycled the slide a few times before using to make sure it was empty. When I fired the shot I did feel like gunpowder residue pepper my face(good thing I had eye protection).

Problem is..

How to I get the slide lock tabs unstuck?
Is it even safe to shoot again, or am I better off sending it to glock?

I'm hoping I just need to replace the spring instead of sending it off to glock. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

kodiakpb
07-16-2012, 17:22
What??? Post a pic please

Ejayisson
07-16-2012, 17:31
Red line is to illustrate how the frame was curved before I released the pressure.

Audiman77
07-16-2012, 17:47
Red line is to illustrate how the frame was curved before I released the pressure.

Man I've never seen the frame bend like that. I'd send it back. Who knows what type of stress the frame was under while bent.

Ejayisson
07-16-2012, 17:58
Well things just got a little interesting...

I was inspecting the barrel a little more and decided to check down it with a flashlight. To find there is a casing logged inside about 3/4-1in in. The back of the casing looks to be blown off. Which would explain what I was peppered with. I'm gussing it was just a bad round, with a weak casing. Thinking the barrel might have buldged and is stopping me from being able to take the tabs down to take slide off.

So its going back to glock, and contacting Tulammo.

Ejayisson
07-16-2012, 18:10
Here's a few pictures showing the case stuck.

DocWills
07-16-2012, 18:11
head came off the round . Repair by Glock needed. This used to cause a kaboom so the new design is working thank goodness. This is why I dont carry a 40. The 45 and 9 seem less stressed.

Ejayisson
07-16-2012, 18:13
Only one round was fired. Barrel was cleaned the week before with a bore brush. So not possible anything was stuck in barrel prior to firing.

DocWills
07-16-2012, 18:15
:supergrin:Nah its not you and very common in 40 cal. Called a head seperation and it used to blow the crap out of a glock.

Ejayisson
07-16-2012, 18:21
Head seperation sounds more like it. Would that blow the back off the casing? Im glad it didn't blow up in my face lol. Still didn't enjoy being peppered, but it could have been worse.

Assuming this is caused by cheap ammo? Will Glock even cover this type of damage or will I have to go after Tulammo?

DocWills
07-16-2012, 18:26
Honestly Id have to see the gun. I really doubt it suffered but the frame might need replacement.It used to be in pieces, this is the first of the 4s i have seen blow and damage if any is not what it used to be.

The top half will be fine but Glock will warranty it. I love Glocks. When you hear us talk about replacing worn recoil spring assemblies this is why.

Yea its a defective cartidge that loses the rear half like that.

Glock is actually designed to blow down thru the mag well if you lose a round like that. The 1,2,3 will blow the slide off and leave you holding the warped frame, mag on the ground. New design retained the slide and barely flexed the frame. I like that. Less chance of injury.

Id ask for a new gun but even if they just replace the frame you did good.

Ejayisson
07-16-2012, 18:29
Thanks for the help :)

DocWills
07-16-2012, 18:35
NP , Glock will likely be interested in the lot number on the ammo.:supergrin:

scosgt
07-16-2012, 18:37
Honestly Id have to see the gun. I really doubt it suffered but the frame might need replacement.It used to be in pieces, this is the first of the 4s i have seen blow and damage if any is not what it used to be.

The top half will be fine but Glock will warranty it. I love Glocks. When you hear us talk about replacing worn recoil spring assemblies this is why.

Yea its a defective cartidge that loses the rear half like that.

Glock is actually designed to blow down thru the mag well if you lose a round like that. The 1,2,3 will blow the slide off and leave you holding the warped frame, mag on the ground. New design retained the slide and barely flexed the frame. I like that. Less chance of injury.

As soon as you stated that you were "peppered" I knew a case had split. When the slide opened, the chamber was full of gas that should have gone out the front. Instead it came back at you.

If it was a new gun, I would have guessed possibly an out of round chamber or rough chamber.

Since you have fired it before, I go with a bad round. Is that steel cased?

I think you can't take it down because when the frame flexed the slide lock probably get bent or the channels are misaligned.

You can get the case out. All you need is a thin tool to pound between the case the the chamber to bend the case walls in. As long as the tool is softer than the barrel you won't hurt anything. Takedown might be harder, would have to look at it.

But it is probably best to send it to Glock and let them check it out. Although, while I know about the KABOOM problem (caused by using the same round on top of the mag repeatedly to chamber, the bullet gets pushed in and the pressure goes through the roof) I don't think this was the same. The case simply let go, for whatever reason. Glock plastic is somewhat indestructible, but you may have gone over the top. :shocked:

Ejayisson
07-16-2012, 18:53
Sadly I threw out the box for the ammo the other week when I reloaded my mags.

Tulammo is steel cased. I don't know if that makes it more likely for a head separation or not. Either way I don't think I will be using the rest of that batch of 40's.

Calling Glock in the morning. Not going to play with it anymore.

Glock Junkie
07-16-2012, 19:00
Your guide rod is also bent. It could have been alot more damage than what happened. I have heard alot of bad things about Tulammo. Hopefully Glock will warranty your gun.

Ejayisson
07-16-2012, 19:02
That's just the angle I took the picture. Had to shine a flashlight down the barrel at the same time while taking it.

WinterWizard
07-16-2012, 19:42
Tula is crap. Never use that stuff.

SCC
07-16-2012, 20:12
call glock !!!
and ask them what should be done with the gun ...
and let them know what happened and they will take care of you ...
don't trash the round in the chamber ...
let them look at it so they can see what ammo it was and they can determined what ammo was used in the gun .. and let you know what to do with it ...
( 770-432-1202 )

SJ 40
07-16-2012, 20:19
call glock !!!
and ask them what should be done with the gun ...
and let them know what happened and they will take care of you ...
don't trash the round in the chamber ...
let them look at it so they can see what ammo it was and they can determined what ammo was used in the gun .. and let you know what to do with it ...
( 770-432-1202 )I agree. SJ 40

nraman
07-16-2012, 20:31
I may be seeing things.
What I see in the barrel is the bottom of a Berdan primed case. Two flash holes as I would expect to see in Russian ammo. The other picture shows no case at all.
To me it looks like the case is intact and in the middle of the barrel, as if a wrong caliber or out of spec cartridge was used.
I am not trying to be a wise guy, that's what I see.

JBS
07-16-2012, 20:50
I may be seeing things.
What I see in the barrel is the bottom of a Berdan primed case. Two flash holes as I would expect to see in Russian ammo. The other picture shows no case at all.
To me it looks like the case is intact and in the middle of the barrel, as if a wrong caliber or out of spec cartridge was used.
I am not trying to be a wise guy, that's what I see.

Man I think your right, that looks like a complete 9mm case stuck in the middle of the bore. Could the striker have knocked it a bit down the bore before it went off expanding in the bore and launched the 9mm bullet? If this is true then vent gas and the primer cup is what hit you in the face.

nraman
07-16-2012, 20:53
Man I think your right, that looks like a complete 9mm case stuck in the middle of the bore. Could the striker have knocked it a bit down the bore before it went off expanding in the bore and launched the 9mm bullet?

That's what I was thinking, the case does not fill the bore as if it is of a smaller caliber like a 9mm.

NEOH212
07-16-2012, 20:56
I'll tell you what. If the case head did in fact blow, This gun held up remarkably well! Maybe Glock finally did something good to improve upon the KB issue.

Call Glock. I'm sure they can help you out. If it was faulty ammo, I'd try to get the ammo manufacture to pay for the damage.

JBS
07-16-2012, 20:58
Look at the photo blown up some. That case matches the polygon rifling (fire formed) in the barrel instead of the chamber. If it is a G22 then that has to be a 9mm or 380 case in the bore.

nraman
07-16-2012, 21:27
Look at the photo blown up some. That case matches the polygon rifling (fire formed) in the barrel instead of the chamber. If it is a G22 then that has to be a 9mm or 380 case in the bore.

Sure looks like.
I wonder how the slide cycled and a case ejected.

Z71
07-16-2012, 21:38
I wonder if Tula slipped a 9mm 'Micky' into a box of .40 and the 9mm jumped out partly chambered and got rammed-home by a .40 and ignited in the bore...sort of a 'double' where you fire the first shot(a .40S&W) then doubled a 9mm out the bore while trying to feed two cartriges(a 9mm with a .40S&W right behind it)?

Nah..that theory don't work..op stated the slide was locked closed....so maybe..it is a 9mm that fired in battery and escaping gas warped the frame until the barrel got hung-up on the frame lug block..the empty case likewise being forced down the bore chasing the bullet until it got stuck when the pressure dropped....but what did the op see eject from the gun?

Awe well...it's all guessing until we see whats stuck in the bore.

scosgt
07-16-2012, 22:21
I think it is just an optical illusion caused by light reflecting off the sides of the case and the breech face.
The case separated at the head and the head was extracted.
A steel case will probably not "shrink" back down as much as a brass case, so it looks like it is stuck in there pretty good.
When the head separated, it allowed gas to get into the action causing the other difficulties. In a Glock, a blown case sends the gas down into the mag well, and usually the mag is blown out. In this case, the gas diverted into the frame area and distorted the frame.
I will take a wild guess and say that the round was overloaded, or the bullet was seated too deep. It does look like over pressure.

dhoomonyou
07-16-2012, 23:32
IMHO tulammo is crap.

Arc Angel
07-17-2012, 02:07
Naaa, not case head separation. Definitely a smaller caliber round. (I'm going to go with 9mm over 380. I think the shooter would have noticed the shorter 380.) What did the OP get peppered with? Blowback. That 9mm cartridge ignited; and combustion gases blew out around the case sidewalls and back into the breech. Then, the fire forming occurred.

The explosion wasn't more severe; and the frame stood up as well as it did because the bullet did end up going down the barrel as it should have. What I suspect, also, happened is that the barrel might have bulged; and this is, 'Why' the slide lock won't pull down. (Pressure, caused by the bulge, is being exerted against the front barrel lug.)

The fact that the case head isn't visible in the breech photo tells me that, when the bullet and case separated, the cartridge case was already well into the barrel. A genuine case head separation would have left the case wall INSIDE the chamber and not as it's shown in the photos. That G-22 has to go back to Glock.

One more thing: I never use Wolf or Tula ammo; and, now I know why.

normal.guy
07-17-2012, 02:40
damn! thats a bummer. i hope glock helps you out. most times with ammo, like anything else, you get what you pay for. dont fire the cheap crap.

DocWills
07-17-2012, 05:27
With respect to the undercaliber comments, In steel cases with any caliber, the case remaing will slam forward as the slide cycles resulting in the out of round look.

I micrometer will be the only way to know.

Cartridge grade brass or steel is concentric as well Most of the blowups came from Under quality brass from AMERC ammo or reloads over using the brass cased stuff, or simply defective rounds.

Steel stuff can microfracture and pop when fired. The frame flex he spoke of is indicative of a head seperation appraocahing out of battery at barrel unlock. Firing undersize ammo in the wrong gun gives a nice fireworks show but never a blow up to my knowledge and rarely a issue other than cleaning.

It is possible to do anything with a gun but an undersize round still has to follow the physics of an explosion. say it was a 9mm round. Most of the force would blow the casing to smithereens, followed by the ever popular venting. Thats going out the barrel and down the grip at unlock.

Thats going to blow the mag not flex the frame. I am going to go with head seperation from an overload.:faint:

.38 super
07-17-2012, 07:14
I may be seeing things.
What I see in the barrel is the bottom of a Berdan primed case. Two flash holes as I would expect to see in Russian ammo. The other picture shows no case at all.
To me it looks like the case is intact and in the middle of the barrel, as if a wrong caliber or out of spec cartridge was used.
I am not trying to be a wise guy, that's what I see.+1 to this. IMHO, tapered case as 9x19 in .40 chamber will have enough gap to let the gases to go behind the case, to cycle the slide and to push it in the barrel... 9luger and .40smith technically should be loaded to the same pressure, but you never know with the russian ammo. In my experience, Tulamo is some how hotter than the normal range ammo... They advertising 9mm to be loaded approximately to the same pressure as the WWB, but when I shoot it trough my G17 it definitely feels hotter. Tula used to make better ammo, after the mess-up with the names and re-naming the company, you never know what you get in those boxes...
Just wondering, how can 9mm round be mistaken with .40smith, but of course it could happened to anyone, I guess, good thing it didn't hurt the OP...

It sure doesn't look like case separation from the picture:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=226568&d=1342483714
I would just contact Glock ant take it from there, as suggested, I'm sure they'll take the case out and will take care of the gun...
An update with some more pictures of the case will be nice...

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 08:11
That is a stuck fired case near the muzzle of that barrel. The stuck case is fire formed so it was detonated where it is.

OP needs to stick a pencil in the muzzle and see how far it goes in.

Would be really interesting to see what is behind that case.

One thing for sure though, not a case head separation.

JBS
07-17-2012, 08:46
Close up.
When you get it removed it should make for an interesting conversation starter. Glad you where not hurt. :thumbsup:

toshbar
07-17-2012, 10:23
How exactly did glock redesign the G4 to stop the frames from cracking when case heads separated?

scosgt
07-17-2012, 11:53
Naaa, not case head separation. Definitely a smaller caliber round. (I'm going to go with 9mm over 380. I think the shooter would have noticed the shorter 380.) What did the OP get peppered with? Blowback. That 9mm cartridge ignited; and combustion gases blew out around the case sidewalls and back into the breech. Then, the fire forming occurred.

The explosion wasn't more severe; and the frame stood up as well as it did because the bullet did end up going down the barrel as it should have. What I suspect, also, happened is that the barrel might have bulged; and this is, 'Why' the slide lock won't pull down. (Pressure, caused by the bulge, is being exerted against the front barrel lug.)

The fact that the case head isn't visible in the breech photo tells me that, when the bullet and case separated, the cartridge case was already well into the barrel. A genuine case head separation would have left the case wall INSIDE the chamber and not as it's shown in the photos. That G-22 has to go back to Glock.

One more thing: I never use Wolf or Tula ammo; and, now I know why.

I disagree. A 9mm would not have a gas seal in a .40 barrel. On ignition, the gas would just go around the bullet, resulting in very low pressure. It might not even drive the bullet out of the bore.

Again, I think what we are seeing in the picture is a combination of reflected light off the sides of the case and the breech face. Looking down the barrel from the breech there is no case head visible. Of course the OP could claifly this by just sticking something into the breech and either you could see it looking down the bore or not.

Years ago a buddy fired a couple of .380 rounds in my HK P7 by accident. I was the one and only time that gun failed to function 100%. There was no damage of any kind. Nothing. It simply failed to extract and eject. That was it.

But again, I can not get past the point that if it was an undersized round there would not be a gas seal. This failure appears to be due to over pressure, that would be the opposite effect of a sub caliber round. The gas would just escape right down the bore.

Arc Angel
07-17-2012, 14:12
I disagree. A 9mm would not have a gas seal in a .40 barrel. On ignition, the gas would just go around the bullet, resulting in very low pressure. It might not even drive the bullet out of the bore.

Again, I think what we are seeing in the picture is a combination of reflected light off the sides of the case and the breech face. Looking down the barrel from the breech there is no case head visible. Of course the OP could claifly this by just sticking something into the breech and either you could see it looking down the bore or not.

Years ago a buddy fired a couple of .380 rounds in my HK P7 by accident. I was the one and only time that gun failed to function 100%. There was no damage of any kind. Nothing. It simply failed to extract and eject. That was it.

But again, I can not get past the point that if it was an undersized round there would not be a gas seal. This failure appears to be due to over pressure, that would be the opposite effect of a sub caliber round. The gas would just escape right down the bore.

This one's tougher to answer than it looks, huh! ;)

I understand what you're saying; but, personally, I don't think so. For now, I'm going to stay with my original comments. I've seen case head separations before. The case and head were NEVER half way down the barrel. That IS what's happened here, right? I think a more likely scenario is for a 9mm round to have initially sat back against the breech face; it was struck by the pin and then went violently backward, hit the breech face, and next changed to its final direction - forward. Ultimately it ended up, perhaps pushed by it's own combustion gas, inside the barrel and, somewhere, ahead of the firing chamber.

Street thugs and gangbangers will use sub caliber cartridges in their pistols: 380's in 9's, and 9's in 40's are more common than you might think. These guns fire, too; and the bullets do leave the barrels. In addition to not having a gas seal I, also, believe that: combustion force, time, and bullet (base) deformation are additional factors. Unfortunately I have no way of proving any of this; so, yes, this is just my opinion. (I do agree, though, that .045 inch is a lot of space.)

Not to put pressure on the guy; but GT's, 'English' is very good at providing answers to questions like this. I'd like to see, 'English' get in on this one.

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 14:18
That isn't the breach face you see in the picture. That is a fired and fire formed cartridge case.

We probably aren't hearing the rest of the story here, like the OP tried to fire the first cartridge off the top of the mag and got a click he then racked the slide and got the boom.

That is probably a 9mm stuck in the barrel accidentally loaded by the OP. it was probably set off by a cartridge being fired behind it, maybe another 9mm.

Foxtrotx1
07-17-2012, 14:52
Wow, General Glocking is great.

Guy fires a 9mm out of a .40 and it's Tula ammo's fault.

I also do not believe the OP is being entirely forthcoming or truthful about how this all went down.

Looks to me like a:

9mm was chambered


Trigger pulled, nothing happens.


User racks slide


Nose of incoming round acts like a hammer/striker and sets off round that is lodged in barrel.


Round in chamber fire forms to barrel and sends the 9mm round down range


All that occurs while the slide is OOB, trying to chamber the round that set off the round in the barrel. This causes the barrel to torque down against the locking block and damage the frame.


Only 1 trigger pull for ALL this to happen.

.38 super
07-17-2012, 14:54
In 9mm chamber, cartridge with primer only, without propellant, will send the bullet about half-way down the barrel. What will happened in .40smith chamber without a proper support...I don't know.
I tend to go with Arc Angel's theory. I wish we see picture of the cartridge or whatever it is in the barrel... For me it is cartridge, not brichface what we see in the picture...
I don't think it was another round struck the 9mm cartridge...it will blow it out of the barrel, I'm almost positive with this...
It is a very interesting case anyway...

.38 super
07-17-2012, 15:00
Wow, General Glocking is great.

Guy fires a 9mm out of a .40 and it's Tula ammo's fault.
I shoot Tula ammo all the time with my gen3 Glock, it's crap but the gun runs just fine accept some light primer strikes...

I don't think someone is looking for who's fault it is here, I see mostly people trying to elaborate on the process for itself, which could be the purpose of a forum...

Nose of incoming round acts like a hammer/striker and sets off round that is lodged in barrel... ... Given the flat nose of the .40 round and no support of the 9mm - hardly possible...

Foxtrotx1
07-17-2012, 15:04
I shoot Tula ammo all the time with my gen3 Glock, it's crap but the gun runs just fine accept some light primer strikes...

I don't think someone is looking for who's fault it is here, I see mostly people trying to elaborate on the process for itself, which could be the purpose of a forum...

... Given the flat nose of the .40 round and no support of the 9mm - hardly possible...

Not if he chambered a 9 behind it.

Does a 9mm case free fall through a 40 barrel???

I'm assuming if he chambered one 9mm, he had a whole mag waiting.

Arc Angel
07-17-2012, 15:08
That isn't the breach face you see in the picture. That is a fired and fire formed cartridge case.

That's right; but you have to look at all the pictures, together, in order to get a better sense of what actually happened.

....... That is probably a 9mm stuck in the barrel accidentally loaded by the OP. It was probably set off by a cartridge being fired behind it, maybe another 9mm.

I hear ya; but if this were the case, instead of a mildly torqued frame, the barrel would have been ruptured and the OP's pistol would have been largely destroyed.

.38 super
07-17-2012, 15:15
Not if he chambered a 9 behind it.

Does a 9mm case free fall through a 40 barrel???

I'm assuming if he chambered one 9mm, he had a whole mag waiting.

9mm case goes free half way in to the muzzle end,in the barrel (rim down)... with little pressure, going from the chamber to the muzzle, I believe it will have minimall resistance from the grooves... By the specs the rim of 9mm luger is 9.96mm, .40smith's bullet diameter should be 10.17 before hit's the grooves, I cannot get the groove size of Glock's barrel but I think it would not take more for the case to be pushed trough the barrel... It will give enough support I assume, for a healthy strike on the primer, but IMHO - not from another .40 round, to think that it was a whole mag with 9mm...well it's possible, I just don't want to guess on this, I'd go with whatever the OP say...:cool:

scosgt
07-17-2012, 15:40
Where I am disagreeing with this is that the photo can be deceptive. The front of the barrel is blurred, the focus is on the case. With proper lighting, it could be halfway up the barrel, OR it could be in the chamber. I just don't think you can tell from the photo, as you can not get any real feel of the depth perception.
People are basing their conclusions on one picture that seems to show the case somewhat up the bore. I am just not so sure of that, as it is a short (only a few inches) barrel and the focus can make it appear closer to the muzzle than it is.
I would like the OP to come back on and clarify that.

And I am still not seeing how a 9mm could cause overpressure.

scosgt
07-17-2012, 15:57
OK, now that you got my attention, I decided to check this out.
So I took down my G27 and stuck a 9mm round in the barrel.
GUESS WHAT

It drops right through. There is no way a following round set off a 9mm that was in the barrel because a 9mm won't stay in the barrel.

Next item:
Unload your .40, lock the slide back and look down the barrel with a light. You will see the extractor and the ejector which make it look like a Berdan cartridge. NOT. You will not see the firing pin hole, depending on the angle.

Next:
I put a 9mm on the top of the mag and loaded the round. It WILL be held by the extractor. I do not know if it would fire, as the force of the striker hitting it might well cause it to be released down the bore instead of firing.

However, since THE ENTIRE CARTRIDGE will simply fall right through the bore, I can't see the case fireforming or anything else since there would be extreme underpressure. No gas seal = instant pressure relief.
Now you might still get gas back into the action, as it could leak around the case or possibly the case might be released by the extractor and wreck some kind of havoc. But the case is NOT going to fireform because there is little pressure. And it is so undersized for the chamber that it would be more likely to split.

Anyway, I am still going with a head separation or overloaded ammo.

Everyone just do what I did. 9mm slides right down the barrel and out. It is simply impossible to load a 9mm and somehow have the round behind it set it off. Look down the bore with the slide open. Same view as the photo. NO case head I think.
As far as firing a 9 instead of a .40, not sure it would discharge, but if it did, there is no gas seal. The bullet should basically just drop out of the bore, the case might split, the primer might let go due to lack of support. I don't know, not going to try it, but it does seem unlikely as the culprit.

scosgt
07-17-2012, 15:58
9mm case goes free half way in to the muzzle end,in the barrel (rim down)... with little pressure, going from the chamber to the muzzle, I believe it will have minimall resistance from the grooves... By the specs the rim of 9mm luger is 9.96mm, .40smith's bullet diameter should be 10.17 before hit's the grooves, I cannot get the groove size of Glock's barrel but I think it would not take more for the case to be pushed trough the barrel... It will give enough support I assume, for a healthy strike on the primer, but IMHO - not from another .40 round, to think that it was a whole mag with 9mm...well it's possible, I just don't want to guess on this, I'd go with whatever the OP say...:cool:

Rem FMJ just falls right through the bore of my G27. Nothing stops it. Total freefall.

Foxtrotx1
07-17-2012, 16:16
9mm case goes free half way in to the muzzle end,in the barrel (rim down)... with little pressure, going from the chamber to the muzzle, I believe it will have minimall resistance from the grooves... By the specs the rim of 9mm luger is 9.96mm, .40smith's bullet diameter should be 10.17 before hit's the grooves, I cannot get the groove size of Glock's barrel but I think it would not take more for the case to be pushed trough the barrel... It will give enough support I assume, for a healthy strike on the primer, but IMHO - not from another .40 round, to think that it was a whole mag with 9mm...well it's possible, I just don't want to guess on this, I'd go with whatever the OP say...:cool:

I'm going with the assumption that if your fool enough to load one 9mm....

Foxtrotx1
07-17-2012, 16:19
http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17384

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 16:20
It drops right through. There is no way a following round set off a 9mm that was in the barrel because a 9mm won't stay in the barrel.

False assumption. We are talking about a Berdan primed cartridge here. The case acts as the anvil for the primer. Once the primer is hit, any pressure will set it off. Once the cartridge detonates it will seal the barrel as the case will expand. Very possible.

Next item:
Unload your .40, lock the slide back and look down the barrel with a light. You will see the extractor and the ejector which make it look like a Berdan cartridge. NOT. You will not see the firing pin hole, depending on the angle.

You would have to be at an extreme angle to not see the firing pin channel. And at that angle you would not be able to see both the extractor and ejector.

Next:
I put a 9mm on the top of the mag and loaded the round. It WILL be held by the extractor. I do not know if it would fire, as the force of the striker hitting it might well cause it to be released down the bore instead of firing.

You can not say that. Just because you can get it to do it doesn't mean a cartridge can't get ahead of the extractor. The GLOCK doesn't have controlled round feeding until the cartridge is out of the mag. And yes, it will fire if the extractor catches it. We have seen that repeatedly around here.

However, since THE ENTIRE CARTRIDGE will simply fall right through the bore, I can't see the case fireforming or anything else since there would be extreme underpressure. No gas seal = instant pressure relief.
Now you might still get gas back into the action, as it could leak around the case or possibly the case might be released by the extractor and wreck some kind of havoc. But the case is NOT going to fireform because there is little pressure. And it is so undersized for the chamber that it would be more likely to split.

Just plain wrong. The mouth of the case will fire form to the chamber, or in this case barrel by the pressure of the powder going off. This is fact as we have seen it too many times being done with 9mm gets fired in a 40 chamber.

DocWills
07-17-2012, 16:22
You guys kill me. Give him sense enough to load the right ammo unless there is proof otherwise.

This is so a classic overload head seperation. Those photos show nothing.

Bele:supergrin:ive the posters description.

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 16:23
Hahaha, yeah that photo showing a case stuck in the barrel, really don't show that.

:rofl:

Foxtrotx1
07-17-2012, 16:28
You guys kill me. Give him sense enough to load the right ammo unless there is proof otherwise.

This is so a classic overload head seperation. Those photos show nothing.

Bele:supergrin:ive the posters description.

Man I bet they don't have these questions on the Wilson Combat forums...:whistling:

scosgt
07-17-2012, 16:37
Quote:
Next item:
Unload your .40, lock the slide back and look down the barrel with a light. You will see the extractor and the ejector which make it look like a Berdan cartridge. NOT. You will not see the firing pin hole, depending on the angle.
You would have to be at an extreme angle to not see the firing pin channel. And at that angle you would not be able to see both the extractor and ejector.

ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT
Lock back the slide and look straight down the barrel at the same angle as the photo was posted. You will see the extractor and ejector and you will NOT see the firing pin hole. Get up from behind your keyboard and do it.

And again. A 9mm slides right out of the barrel. It does not stick in the barrel. Get out from behind your keyboard and try it. Assuming a 9mm could get ahead of the extractor (possible) it would just slide right out. Since it would not fire forward of the extractor (I think you have to agree with that, the strike is just not that long) the act of working the slide to chamber the next round is going to shake it right out of the gun. Try it and report back.

I am not saying that a 9mm could not have been fired in that gun, when there is a will there is a way. The damage is just not consistent with that scenario. Without a gas seal, the bullet just drops out the front if it even gets that far. Once the round is fired and the bullet pops out of the crimp, ALL the pressure releases to the front.

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 16:53
ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT
Lock back the slide and look straight down the barrel at the same angle as the photo was posted. You will see the extractor and ejector and you will NOT see the firing pin hole. Get up from behind your keyboard and do it.

I've already tried it, you are wrong.

And again. A 9mm slides right out of the barrel.

That much you get right.

Assuming a 9mm could get ahead of the extractor (possible)

Now we are getting somewhere...

it would just slide right out.

Then you get lost again. If the pistol is kept even reasonably level it will not.

Since it would not fire forward of the extractor (I think you have to agree with that, the strike is just not that long)

Back on course...

the act of working the slide to chamber the next round is going to shake it right out of the gun. Try it and report back.

Back off course. I have, it doesn't.

I am not saying that a 9mm could not have been fired in that gun, when there is a will there is a way. The damage is just not consistent with that scenario. Without a gas seal, the bullet just drops out the front if it even gets that far. Once the round is fired and the bullet pops out of the crimp, ALL the pressure releases to the front.

We know the case mouth will fire form to the chamber or barrel. That is beyond a doubt. The bullet will not seal, which may be why this didn't turn into a hand grenade, but the case mouth will expand.

sgt rock
07-17-2012, 17:14
Well OP, can you confirm if there is one or two cases in the barrel ? you say the back end is gone but the picture from the muzzle end shows the back end of a berdan case.

BTW , do you keep any 9mm Glock mags loaded with steel cases ammo ?

Bruce M
07-17-2012, 17:23
Man I bet they don't have these questions on the Wilson Combat forums...:whistling:
:rofl::rofl:

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 17:28
ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT
Lock back the slide and look straight down the barrel at the same angle as the photo was posted. You will see the extractor and ejector and you will NOT see the firing pin hole. Get up from behind your keyboard and do it.

OK, I didn't lock the slide back when I looked down the barrel. You can see the extractor and firing pin hole and the ejector with it locked back. Doesn't look anything like the picture, but you were partially right on that one.

:wavey:

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 17:34
I see the OP looking at the thread, why doesn't he answer some questions?

scosgt
07-17-2012, 17:36
OK, I didn't lock the slide back when I looked down the barrel. You can see the extractor and firing pin hole and the ejector with it locked back. Doesn't look anything like the picture, but you were partially right on that one.

:wavey:

AND
What it looks like is the inside of a Berdan primed case. In fact, it looks very much like the picture the OP posted.

Absent any further info from the OP, I have to go with head separation. YMMV.

scosgt
07-17-2012, 17:38
OK, it COULD be the entire case. But if so, why doesn't he just poke it out with a cleaning rod and look at the headstamp. That would end three pages of speculation.

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 17:39
AND
What it looks like is the inside of a Berdan primed case. In fact, it looks very much like the picture the OP posted.

Absent any further info from the OP, I have to go with head separation. YMMV.

And nothing. Looks nothing like a Berdan primed case or the picture.

Glock Junkie
07-17-2012, 17:40
Quick story! I was shooting my 19 and 27 with my 17 year old son. He mistakenly loaded 9mm rounds into my 27 mag. When I pulled the trigger, I immediately knew something was wrong. So the answer to your question is yes a 9mm round will fire out of a 40 and there was no damage to the pistol. The case did bulge but did not split.

Ejayisson
07-17-2012, 17:50
Not sure how I can take better pictures to show down the barrel from the ejection port. Not easy to angle the camera.

A few things Im sure of. Only one bullet was loaded. The slide was cycled a few times when I picked up the gun to verify it was empty. Something I do everytime, as that's how I was taught. No mag was put into the gun until I was on the line. Once there I loaded the mag, chambered one round and prepaired to fire. Only one trigger pull. I did not have any issues up to the point it exploded.

There is no back on that case stuck in the barrel. I can stick a paper clip partially in the case from the breech side.

One thing I can add that was not mentioned is before knowing there was a case in the barrel I ran a few snap caps to test if the slide functioned, and ejector worked.

There is only one case lodged in the barrel.

I have the mag from when this occured. Its still loaded, missing only one bullet. All loaded with 40. I never load 2 ammo types at the same time. Top bullet shows some wear and scratches. I made sure to put that mag aside to help determine the problem later. No damge was done to the mag. Beside having silver and black powder on it. Also noted silver specks in the breech.

Im sure this will feed the fire of a few. I was also shooting my G19 that day. So yes 9mm was present. However, I did not load any 40 on the range. They were loaded at home when I cleaned the gun. All mags were loaded with 15 rounds so no 9mm could have been added to the mag while at the range.

I have nothing to hide btw. If it was an user error I want to know to prevent it from happening again. I have nothing to gain by not being forthcoming about all details. If you ask me questions directly I will respond.

Gun is being packed up to ship off to Glock. They basically said over the phone that since it sounded like an ammo issue its not covered. Contacting Tulammo as well too.

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 18:10
That isn't the case you are seeing from the chamber. It is the lead for the rifling. The cartridge headspaces on it.

Put a pencil in the muzzle of the barrel. How far does it go in?

scosgt
07-17-2012, 18:17
That isn't the case you are seeing from the chamber. It is the lead for the rifling. The cartridge headspaces on it.

Put a pencil in the muzzle of the barrel. How far does it go in?

You may be right about that, or it could be the back end of the case with no head. Hard to tell from that pic.

Again, if there is a case head in there, it can be banged right out with a cleaning rod.

That would obviate some of the speculation. I am still of the opinion that firing a 9mm in there won't do much damage if any. The case will overexpand, but the pressure will drop QUICKLY.

Ejayisson
07-17-2012, 18:53
I was thinking that ring was the casing. It is what the case headspaces on. Sorry for the confusion. I still can't find a way to see farther into the barrel.

I tried pounding out the case, but it didnt budge what so ever. Was hoping to remove the case to answer some questions.

scosgt
07-17-2012, 19:01
I was thinking that ring was the casing. It is what the case headspaces on. Sorry for the confusion. I still can't find a way to see farther into the barrel.

I tried pounding out the case, but it didnt budge what so ever. Was hoping to remove the case to answer some questions.

I stand corrected.

Foxtrotx1
07-17-2012, 19:03
I was thinking that ring was the casing. It is what the case headspaces on. Sorry for the confusion. I still can't find a way to see farther into the barrel.

I tried pounding out the case, but it didnt budge what so ever. Was hoping to remove the case to answer some questions.

Can you post a photo with a pencil going in the barrel and coming out the chamber?

That would make us all very happy.

Ejayisson
07-17-2012, 19:11
Can you post a photo with a pencil going in the barrel and coming out the chamber?

That would make us all very happy.

No pencil, had to use screwdriver. This is as far as it will go.

nraman
07-17-2012, 19:33
No pencil, had to use screwdriver. This is as far as it will go.

Still looks like a case intact, smaller than .40, stuck in the middle of the barrel.

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 19:35
Ejay, sorry if I was too abrasive in my post.

And thank you for posting back with the picture of the screwdriver in the barrel. I am 100% certain that the case stuck in the barrel is NOT a 40 caliber case. There just isn't a way to get it in there short of a hydraulic press.

I wouldn't continue trying to beat out the casing. I'm almost certain the barrel is bulged between the chamber and the stuck casing. I would'nt be surprised if there is a bullet lodged in there.

nraman
07-17-2012, 19:37
No pencil, had to use screwdriver. This is as far as it will go.

If you feel like playing a bit, spray the bore from both sides with either penetrating oil or CLP or the thinnest oil you have.
Let it soak a bit and tap the screwdriver from the muzzle end without touching the rifling or crown. A brass, aluminum or any other soft metal would be a better choice.
It will come out.

Ejayisson
07-17-2012, 19:42
No worries G36.

Im not ruling anything out. I had two other people with me, and I cant account for their actions. So Im sure there are possiblities of it being 9mm. For all I know they could have been messing with the 40 mags while I was shooting. I can only account for my actions. The more I think about it the more doubts I end up having.

RYT 2BER
07-17-2012, 19:45
:supergrin:Nah its not you and very common in 40 cal. Called a head seperation and it used to blow the crap out of a glock.

Really!?! "VERY COMMON IN .40 cal".

Good Lord... Gotta love the Internet... Must be 10,000,000 rounds of .40 cal shot in the USA every year, and you get barely a handful of these and those are almost exclusively overcharged hand loads or total crapola ammo like Tula ...

My guess is you have a statistical better chance of getting hit by lightening than a kb. :upeyes:

nraman
07-17-2012, 19:50
Man I think your right, that looks like a complete 9mm case stuck in the middle of the bore. Could the striker have knocked it a bit down the bore before it went off expanding in the bore and launched the 9mm bullet?

A loosely held 9mm cartridge could escape the extractor when hit by the striker and go into the bore. A hard Russian primer might have a short hangfire that allows the case to fire after it moved forward.
I have seen the picture of a 30-30 (I think) that was fired on a fixture without any kind of bolt or other support and the case never moved due to the friction from the expansion.
Just guessing till we get more info.

scosgt
07-17-2012, 19:54
Ejay, sorry if I was too abrasive in my post.

And thank you for posting back with the picture of the screwdriver in the barrel. I am 100% certain that the case stuck in the barrel is NOT a 40 caliber case. There just isn't a way to get it in there short of a hydraulic press.

I wouldn't continue trying to beat out the casing. I'm almost certain the barrel is bulged between the chamber and the stuck casing. I would'nt be surprised if there is a bullet lodged in there.

From the photos it is obvious there is no bullet in the bore. Or am I missing something?

G36's Rule
07-17-2012, 20:05
From the photos it is obvious there is no bullet in the bore. Or am I missing something?

I know it sounds CRAZY, but I really think that case that is stuck in the bore was detonated in the position it is in. I think there was a cartridge fired in the chamber while a loaded 9mm was sitting in the bore, where the case is now.

I think the round that was fired in the chamber hit the "sitting" cartridge and detonated it. I think this happened at the moment the barrel was unlocking from the slide causing a violent rearward action of the slide jamming it to the back and bending the frame... but releasing enough pressure quickly enough to NOT cause a HUGE KB.

I would bet the barrel is bulged between the chamber and the head of the stuck case, with maybe a bullet lodged in there as well.

dizmodeus
07-17-2012, 20:16
Case head seperation http://img.tapatalk.com/6b18bee5-1c59-a8c6.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/6b18bee5-1c7e-9c72.jpg
What you have there is something else entirely
Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

.38 super
07-17-2012, 21:23
Well, being sort of an "Internet" shooter, from where I'm standing this is a case with a 9mm round fired in the barrel of G22 and what we see on OP's pictures is exactly this.
IMHO:
1.There is no other round fired, no bullet behind the case, on the chamber side...
Again, IMHO if you have a 9mm case in the barrel and you fire a .40 round, it will blow the case, bullet and everything out of the barrel.
I've seen a stuck bullet being blown off by another bullet fired after the first one, I don't think we have anything in the barrel but empty case.

2.There is no case separation of any kind.

Here what I did: I opened a Wolf 115gr round, made in Tula and compared it to a .40smith and 9x19, both made in US.
Here is the picture, Wolf is far right:
http://storage4.album.bg/3d2/tulammo_001_d5527_29752389.jpg

Than I took a wooden stick and shaved the case in the barrel, from the chamber side, without putting too much pressure on it. Pushed by hand it stopped some how in the middle. The red mark on the stick shows distance from muzzle to the bottom of the case, the black mark, from the end of the chamber to the bottom.
http://storage4.album.bg/abe/tulammo_03_3a387_29752391.jpg

This is how a picture taken from the muzzle end looks like:
http://storage4.album.bg/b51/tulammo_02_b0844_29752390.jpg

This is how my picture compares to the OP's picture:
http://storage4.album.bg/300/tulammo_04_5c920_29752392.jpg

There is obvious evidence of fire forming of the OP's case.

Now I'm curious what Tula would say... I believe we have a 9mm round dropped in to the .40smith box of their ammo, unless OP had another box of same Tula, russian made ammo, I don't see how a 9mm russian round will get in to the mag... :supergrin:

scosgt
07-17-2012, 21:37
Well, being sort of an "Internet" shooter, from where I'm standing this is a case with a 9mm round fired in the barrel of G22 and what we see on OP's pictures is exactly this.
IMHO:
1.There is no other round fired, no bullet behind the case, on the chamber side...
Again, IMHO if you have a 9mm case in the barrel and you fire a .40 round, it will blow the case, bullet and everything out of the barrel.
I've seen a stuck bullet being blown off by another bullet fired after the first one, I don't think we have anything in the barrel but empty case.

2.There is no case separation of any kind.

Here what I did: I opened a Wolf 115gr round, made in Tula and compared it to a .40smith and 9x19, both made in US.
Here is the picture, Wolf is far right:
http://storage4.album.bg/3d2/tulammo_001_d5527_29752389.jpg

Than I took a wooden stick and shaved the case in the barrel without putting too much pressure on it. Pushed by hand it stopped some how in the middle. The red mark on the stick shows distance from muzzle to the bottom of the case, the black mark, from the end of the chamber to the bottom.
http://storage4.album.bg/abe/tulammo_03_3a387_29752391.jpg

This is how a picture taken from the muzzle end looks like:
http://storage4.album.bg/b51/tulammo_02_b0844_29752390.jpg

This is how my picture compares to the OP's picture:
http://storage4.album.bg/300/tulammo_04_5c920_29752392.jpg

There is obvious evidence of fire forming of the OP's case.

Now I'm curious what Tula would say... I believe we have a 9mm round dropped in to the .40smith box of their ammo, unless OP had another box of same Tula, russian made ammo, I don't see how a 9mm russian round will get in to the mag... :supergrin:

I am down with this except:
How does the case wind up forward of the chamber? In order to fire, the case HAS to be held against the breech face by the extractor. The peak pressure occurs before the bullet leaves the case, and drops off dramatically at the point the bullet is released, because there is no gas seal. So the maximum diameter of the case is at the instant of firing when it is in the chamber. How does it wind up further down the bore?

Since the unfired 9mm case will drop right through the bore, it MUST be held by the extractor to fire. It is not headspacing on anything. I can not get my head around the striker driving the case forward past the extractor BEFORE it fires. Does not make sense.

.38 super
07-17-2012, 21:47
I am down with this except:
How does the case wind up forward of the chamber? In order to fire, the case HAS to be held against the breech face by the extractor. The peak pressure occurs before the bullet leaves the case, and drops off dramatically at the point the bullet is released, because there is no gas seal. So the maximum diameter of the case is at the instant of firing when it is in the chamber. How does it wind up further down the bore?

Since the unfired 9mm case will drop right through the bore, it MUST be held by the extractor to fire. It is not headspacing on anything. I can not get my head around the striker driving the case forward past the extractor BEFORE it fires. Does not make sense.
I got no explanation... What I know for a fact is that 9mm case loaded out of the .40 mag have a great chance to be caught by the extractor and than, the firing pin will hit the primer and the extractor will provide enough support to fire the primer. Done it... :supergrin:

As I mentioned, my only explanation is that the round was fired that way, the pressure behind the round, even with the big gap, was enough to cycle the slide and some how at this moment there were enough gasses left to push the case in the barrel, but the fire forming does not support very well this theory so I don't know, there are plenty of people with enough experience to give some opinion here...

scosgt
07-17-2012, 21:56
And just when I thought you were on to something....

scosgt
07-17-2012, 21:59
I got no explanation... What I know for a fact is that 9mm case loaded out of the .40 mag have a great chance to be caught by the extractor and than, the firing pin will hit the primer and the extractor will provide enough support to fire the primer. Done it... :supergrin:

As I mentioned, my only explanation is that the round was fired that way, the pressure behind the round, even with the big gap, was enough to cycle the slide and some how at this moment there were enough gasses left to push the case in the barrel, but the fire forming does not support very well this theory so I don't know, there are plenty of people with enough experience to give some opinion here...

UNLESS
The bullet, not having a gas seal, allows some gas to get behind the case and the pressure between the breach face and the case pushes it forward?
OR
The case being too small a diameter (and steel to boot) does not grab the chamber walls and is dragged down the bore by the bullet, where it expands enough to grab the narrower walls?
Does not seem likely, but it got there somehow.

scosgt
07-17-2012, 22:00
OR
The case not being held by the chamber walls BOUNCES so hard off the breech face that it winds up down the bore?

.38 super
07-17-2012, 22:23
OR
The case not being held by the chamber walls BOUNCES so hard off the breech face that it winds up down the bore?
:upeyes:... This could be a possibility... You should feel how easy is to push the case from the chamber side... It almost doesn't take much but at the point where I left it, was hard to push it by hand. A tap from the front free up the case...
Of course, this doesn't answer two things - the fire forming... I don't think just by hitting the case to the grooves it'll do what we see on the picture and also: the bulging of the frame... I have a hard time to believe that it was something wrong with the frame, no disrespect to the OP, but I think it was just pig nosing, not being under pressure, but then - how come he was not able to disassemble the gun...
I don't know...

DocWills
07-17-2012, 22:35
Ill play too, its a 9mm makarov.:wavey:

Pierre!
07-17-2012, 22:48
Would really like to see a photo with the light source from the breech end of the barrel...

Take that same screwdriver used for depth probing, insert it in the breech area with the screwdriver blade directing light through the barrel, disable flash on the camera, and take a picture.

Just for *fun*...

Patrick

.38 super
07-17-2012, 22:57
Ill play too, its a 9mm makarov.:wavey: Well... it is 9mm... 9x19 or 9x18... could be a Mak case, it could be easier to mistaken Mak case for .40smith I guess because of the bullet ogive...
----------------------------------------------------
I got second tought... Naah... Mak case is almost cylindrical and rim is almost 10mm.. And it's weaker loaded compared to 9 luger...
I don't see it getting there, if you look at OP's pictures, he's case is very much where my case is... I'd say: 9x19 luger, tapered case with rim stuck there and no explanation for the fire forming and frame bulging... :supergrin:

ReyFufuRulesAll
07-17-2012, 23:00
I'm going under the assumption that it is a 9mm stuck in the chamber. The question then is HOW DID IT GET THERE?

If you carry the gun, it is possible that at one point you inserted the wrong mag or topped off the mag with the wrong round, or possibly if you carry "+1", the extra round was a 9mm. It could have gotten in there weeks in advance. I've seen similar things in the past; one time I disassembled a buddy's 870 and found a 20ga stuck in the bore. He hadn't used it in weeks, and kept it loaded as a home defense weapon. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

There are a few things you can do to prevent this from happening again:

1) Buy a different brand of 9mm than you do for .40. I do the same for my 20ga and 12ga after the aforementioned incident. It'll help prevent misidentification.

2) when checking to make sure a gun is unloaded, lock the slide back and direct the barrel at a light source. Make sure you see the reflection through the chamber. If you stock any two rounds that are that close in size, this really is a must.

3) disassemble and reassemble your guns regularily. This'll help you learn their inner workings, identify problems, and encourage you to keep them clean, but it'll also make sure you don't have another incident like the one you just had.



Hope this helps and you enjoy many more years of healthy shooting! :wavey:

mymini40
07-17-2012, 23:16
lesson learned.

toshbar
07-18-2012, 07:25
Most interesting General Glocking thread in 40+ years!

JBS
07-18-2012, 07:30
The probability of the following event is very likely. The primer upon detonation did two things. Because the case had no forward stop and the extractor did not have full grip the primer blast forced the case into the bore while the primer stayed against the breach face. Enough primer blast entered the flash hole to ignite the powder. Because the case was able to vent some through the now open primer pocket it made it to the location it now rests before it expanded enough to fire form and blow the bullet clear of the bore. I suspect that when the case is removed it will be absent the primer cup.
A good rule of thumb is to follow the old 12ga 20ga axiom. Never have more than one under size chamberable ammo out at the same time, ie. .45 ACP and .40 S&W, 40 will fire in a 45 and invent a new case, 40 S&W and 9mm, .380 the 9s cause the problem you experienced in the 40.

.38 super
07-18-2012, 08:47
I got an idea, please correct the points that you don't agree with:

Case is loaded in the chamber, hold only bu the extractor.

Firing pin hits the primer, sending the case in to the barrel in the instant it ignites the charge.

Since there is no support from the brichface, the charge explodes, seals the case to the bore, but the primer was blown off back and the gases, escaping back trough the gap and primer pocket, cycle the slide, not the impulse of the case hitting the brichface.
This explains to me the spray that OP felt during the recoil.

It doesn't explains the bulging of the frame... It could be the gases entering the bottom of the frame, just before the barrel unlocks from the slide, but I'm not sure if this could deliver such damage, and what could be damaged so one will not be able to operate the slide lock...

Troy H
07-18-2012, 09:57
I'm with G36, I think there are two casings in the barrel and probably a bullet between them. The casing viewed from the front obviously has a casing head and primer (stops the OP's screwdriver from going all the way through), the casing viewable from the rear does not.

OP, were they snap-caps or blanks that you fired before shooting your live round? I'd guess blanks and that they are the wrong caliber.

scosgt
07-18-2012, 10:01
The probability of the following event is very likely. The primer upon detonation did two things. Because the case had no forward stop and the extractor did not have full grip the primer blast forced the case into the bore while the primer stayed against the breach face. Enough primer blast entered the flash hole to ignite the powder. Because the case was able to vent some through the now open primer pocket it made it to the location it now rests before it expanded enough to fire form and blow the bullet clear of the bore. I suspect that when the case is removed it will be absent the primer cup.
A good rule of thumb is to follow the old 12ga 20ga axiom. Never have more than one under size chamberable ammo out at the same time, ie. .45 ACP and .40 S&W, 40 will fire in a 45 and invent a new case, 40 S&W and 9mm, .380 the 9s cause the problem you experienced in the 40.

Ding ding ding this may be a winner.

Everyone needs to remember that a Rem 9mm slides right through the bore, so for all practical purposes there is no way a round was somehow just laying in the bore. But, as above, since the case is so much smaller than the bore almost any force at all could drive it forward, at least somewhat.

.38 super
07-18-2012, 10:45
I'm with G36, I think there are two casings in the barrel and probably a bullet between them. The casing viewed from the front obviously has a casing head and primer (stops the OP's screwdriver from going all the way through), the casing viewable from the rear does not.

Of course this is apossibility but you guys are missing the fact that from the muzzle end you see a fire formed case of Russian round in the OPís picture, which automatically eliminates the hypothesisn of snap cap ďfiredĒ and multiple shells or something else in the barrel.There is no other case visible from the chamber...

Ding ding ding this may be a winner.
Everyone needs to remember that a Rem 9mm slides right through the bore, so for all practical purposes there is no way a round was somehow just laying in the bore. But, as above, since the case is so much smaller than the bore almost any force at all could drive it forward, at least somewhat.
BTW, 9mm cartrige will not slide free trough G22 barrel, it will stop in the middle.

scosgt
07-18-2012, 10:57
Of course this is apossibility but you guys are missing the fact that from the muzzle end you see a fire formed case of Russian round in the OPís picture, which automatically eliminates the hypothesisn of snap cap ďfiredĒ and multiple shells or something else in the barrel.There is no other case visible from the chamber...


BTW, 9mm cartrige will not slide free trough G22 barrel, it will stop in the middle.

Then I guess the barrel is different from a G27, because it dropped right through!

So here is what I am thinking:
Sub caliber round (9mm could have gotten mixed in the box somehow, or maybe even they screwed up and made some 9mm brass with .40 headstamps) is held by the extractor. At the instant of firing, the primer backs out, since it is not being held firmly against the breech. The blast of the primer pushes the case forward. At the same time, gas it leaking all over the place and with the cartridge not sealing the bore, the gas goes down into the action causing the frame bend etc. The cart case stops at some point when the walls have expanded and since it is in the bore, it can not squeeze down enough to be extracted back out. And yes, since gas is now escaping out the primer holes, it can jet the case forward. I agree the primer will probably not be found.

So the big question is, how did a sub caliber round get into the gun? Could very well have gotten into the box at the factory.

I have read reports of people buying ammo at WalMart and finding odd rounds in the box.

nraman
07-18-2012, 11:09
All it takes to get a better idea is for the OP to tap the case out. It can't be that hard.

Troy H
07-18-2012, 11:11
There is no other case visible from the chamber...

You're right. I thought the visible line in the chamber-side picture was a brass casing without a head. Instead it's just where the barrel begins. I had to take look at mine with a flashlight to compare. :whistling:

In that case, assuming the fired mag was otherwise filled with .40, I don't believe that it's just "chance" that led to the 9mm being the first round in the mag. I think that should be used as a clue to how it got there. I'd guess that while chambering a +1 at some point, a 9mm round was grabbed to top off the mag. As mentioned earlier, probably an instance of having multiple boxes of similar ammo open at once. Various scenarios of fiddling could have resulted in the top round of a 40 mag being loaded with a 9mm.

.38 super
07-18-2012, 11:13
It could be somewhere between what you're saying and JBS theory I guess...it make sense to me.
I guarantee you, 9mm round stops in the middle of G22 barrel, done it several times, same result.
Also, I'm not sure if the frame was bulged to the point that it will lock the gun inoperable... I think the junk from the blast, primer debris or something some how pushed from the blast, locked the gun. When forced, everything went back to normal...
I also believe, that if the case in the barrel is pushed back to the chamber it will get out fairly easy, but of course, let Glock deal wit this, I'm just hoping we'll get more info for the outcome...
Oh, I forgot another some how useless info: a shell, or just empty case with un-fired primer, if pushed back to the brichface, will fire (ignite) the primer, even not hold on place by extractor... Also tested...

.38 super
07-18-2012, 11:21
....In that case, assuming the fired mag was otherwise filled with .40, I don't believe that it's just "chance" that led to the 9mm being the first round in the mag. I think that should be used as a clue to how it got there. I'd guess that while chambering a +1 at some point, a 9mm round was grabbed to top off the mag. As mentioned earlier, probably an instance of having multiple boxes of similar ammo open at once. Various scenarios of fiddling could have resulted in the top round of a 40 mag being loaded with a 9mm.
I think so too... My version is: Tula mixed a 9mm round of some kind in the .40 box and if this was the case, I don't even see how someone could be blamed...I usually look at the rounds when I'm loading my mags ( no-one loads my mags but me) but sometimes I look aside, it's perfectly normal...

G36's Rule
07-18-2012, 11:47
Of course this is apossibility but you guys are missing the fact that from the muzzle end you see a fire formed case of Russian round in the OPís picture, which automatically eliminates the hypothesisn of snap cap ďfiredĒ and multiple shells or something else in the barrel.There is no other case visible from the chamber...




Yeah, I'm the one who pointed that out to the OP. no casing in the chamber.

Doesn't eliminate the possibility that a cartridge was fired behind the stuck case... And was ejected. Remember the first part of this thread? Slide stuck back and frame bent?

JBS
07-18-2012, 11:48
All it takes to get a better idea is for the OP to tap the case out. It can't be that hard.

If one is not familiar with how much force can be required to remove a bore obstruction it can be very intimidating for the inexperienced.

nraman
07-18-2012, 12:22
Yeah, I'm the one who pointed that out to the OP. no casing in the chamber.

I think it was pretty clear from the beginning that there was nothing there, in the first picture and so posted.

G36's Rule
07-18-2012, 12:38
I think it was pretty clear from the beginning that there was nothing there, in the first picture and so posted.

No, the OP thought the ring you can see in the pictures of he chamber was the case, as did others.

.38 super
07-18-2012, 13:45
Yeah, I'm the one who pointed that out to the OP. no casing in the chamber.

Doesn't eliminate the possibility that a cartridge was fired behind the stuck case... And was ejected. Remember the first part of this thread? Slide stuck back and frame bent? Yes, you did, I agree on this, OP corrected himself. Still... I don't understand how another round would be fired, OP states that he fired only one round, also, even if there is a following round fired, honestly, I don't see how the bullet will not bump the case out of the barrel...
If I got you right, assuming there is a 9mm casing in the barrel (fact) for whatever reason, and we fire a another round, lets say - .40smith, IMHO it will blow everything out of the barrel. If not we will observe a catastrophic failure of the barrel and the gun, not visibly functioning gun, if the following bullet won't be able to push the casing out, the pressure build up behind it will destroy the gun, I think, of course I could be wrong...

.38 super
07-18-2012, 13:50
If one is not familiar with how much force can be required to remove a bore obstruction it can be very intimidating for the inexperienced. I agree, I did push stuck bullets out of a barrel. However, I'm assuming that in this case, the casing will be fairly easy to be punched back to the chamber, it will take less force that pushing a actual bullet.

I hope OP did ask Glock to send back the case when they are done with the Gun, it will answer possibly lots of questions that we can only guess the answers to, right now...

scosgt
07-18-2012, 14:38
Yes, you did, I agree on this, OP corrected himself. Still... I don't understand how another round would be fired, OP states that he fired only one round, also, even if there is a following round fired, honestly, I don't see how the bullet will not bump the case out of the barrel...
If I got you right, assuming there is a 9mm casing in the barrel (fact) for whatever reason, and we fire a another round, lets say - .40smith, IMHO it will blow everything out of the barrel. If not we will observe a catastrophic failure of the barrel and the gun, not visibly functioning gun, if the following bullet won't be able to push the casing out, the pressure build up behind it will destroy the gun, I think, of course I could be wrong...

That is exactly correct. A stuck case is not going to stop a full power bullet. Either it is blown out or there is a KABOOM.

G36's Rule
07-18-2012, 15:27
Yes, you did, I agree on this, OP corrected himself. Still... I don't understand how another round would be fired, OP states that he fired only one round, also, even if there is a following round fired, honestly, I don't see how the bullet will not bump the case out of the barrel...
..

Hey, I agree, but nothing else makes any sense. You can't get a sub caliber round to detonate mid barrel any other way.

:dunno:

Anyway, I hope we can get some resolution on this, but doubt it. Threads like this tend to wither then die without ever hearing the end result.

Too bad the OP doesn't have a small mirror like a dental mirror. That and a small flashlight would show us what is just past the chamber.

MinnMark
07-18-2012, 15:46
I have tried to follow the thoughts here, forgive me if this post is redundant. Without really trying, I can think of a dozen ways that a 9mm round could make it into a .40 gun. That's why we need to be more than careful. Add a couple of friends at the range, and that number goes up a lot. Can it get forward of the extractor? If so, then let's say there is a 9mm loose in the chamber. The poster racks the slide several times to clear the gun, but it stays put since it is just forward of the extractor claw. The poster loads a mag with .40, loads the gun and racks the slide. Now there is a .40 chambered with a 9mm pushed just ahead of it in the barrel. As the trigger is pulled, the .40 fires, the bullet moves forward about a mm and fires the primer of the 9mm, within about a nanosecond of the .40 going off. There is a lot of pressure on both sides of the bottom of the 9mm case. The 9mm case itself expands to fit the rifling. The 9mm bullet exits downrange. The .40 case ejects as the slide is forced back, but with too much force. The barrel and slide are damaged from the overpressure from two rounds going off, one of them in the barrel. Could both charges have been close enough in energy (given that each was relieved by both the 9mm bullet exiting and .40 casing being ejected) for the bottom of the 9mm case to stay intact as shown by the pic down the barrel? And is the .40 bullet in place just on the other side of the 9mm bottom wall?

scosgt
07-18-2012, 15:59
I have tried to follow the thoughts here, forgive me if this post is redundant. Without really trying, I can think of a dozen ways that a 9mm round could make it into a .40 gun. That's why we need to be more than careful. Add a couple of friends at the range, and that number goes up a lot. Can it get forward of the extractor? If so, then let's say there is a 9mm loose in the chamber. The poster racks the slide several times to clear the gun, but it stays put since it is just forward of the extractor claw. The poster loads a mag with .40, loads the gun and racks the slide. Now there is a .40 chambered with a 9mm pushed just ahead of it in the barrel. As the trigger is pulled, the .40 fires, the bullet moves forward about a mm and fires the primer of the 9mm, within about a nanosecond of the .40 going off. There is a lot of pressure on both sides of the bottom of the 9mm case. The 9mm case itself expands to fit the rifling. The 9mm bullet exits downrange. The .40 case ejects as the slide is forced back, but with too much force. The barrel and slide are damaged from the overpressure from two rounds going off, one of them in the barrel. Could both charges have been close enough in energy (given that each was relieved by both the 9mm bullet exiting and .40 casing being ejected) for the bottom of the 9mm case to stay intact as shown by the pic down the barrel? And is the .40 bullet in place just on the other side of the 9mm bottom wall?

I think in your scenario you get a kaboom. The barrel is not built to withstand the pressure of TWO rounds going off at the same time. Certainly not with one of them in the rifling and not chamber area.
As well, in my G27, a 9mm round just drops right out of the barrel. Seems to be different in a G22, no idea why that would be.

Ejayisson
07-18-2012, 17:11
All it takes to get a better idea is for the OP to tap the case out. It can't be that hard.

I used same screwdriver and hammer to attempt to "tap" it out. When I say it will not budge I mean it. I was not hitting it light. At risk of doing more damage I rather wait till Glock looks at it to get my answer.

Ejayisson
07-18-2012, 17:18
Anyway, I hope we can get some resolution on this, but doubt it. Threads like this tend to wither then die without ever hearing the end result.

Too bad the OP doesn't have a small mirror like a dental mirror. That and a small flashlight would show us what is just past the chamber.


Dental mirron sounds like a good idea. Will see about getting one tonight on my way home from work(Overnights).

I plan on posting the final outcome as soon as I find out. I visit the forums frequently. I want to know just as bad as everyone else. If I made a mistake my pride will not stop me from admitting I did.

Sorry if my thread has caused any commotion. I was just looking for answers, not stir anything up.

Aux Bear
07-18-2012, 17:25
Mystery that I hope we get an answer too. As I new Armorer I really enjoyed this thread. Thanks guys, I've learned alot here today. Someone please follow up and let's get a final resolution to this mystery. I've read so many "possibles" here. Thanks to the OP for the post and everyones input. And I've learned to never let my Grandson keep his G19 rangebag any where near my G22/G27 bag!

.38 super
07-18-2012, 21:39
...Sorry if my thread has caused any commotion. I was just looking for answers, not stir anything up.

No commotion on myside... I'm glad you're OK...

If you didn't send the gun to Glock yet and if it's not too much, would you measure how much you got from the muzzle end to the bottom of the case that is visible, and do the same thing from the chamber end... Any pencil will do it, or soft plastic tubing, look at my picture with the gun, the wooden stick and the ruler, you can do the same thing: mark the pencil with one line for the muzzle end, than push it trough the chamber and mark where the side of the chamber is. I hope I didn't miss something, I was under the impression that you can cycle the gun, so it should not be a problem to hold it open and try to put something to measure the distance to the obstruction fromthe both ends... This will give us idea if you have only case there or also something else, even I seriously doubt it...

.38 super
07-18-2012, 21:49
... You can't get a sub caliber round to detonate mid barrel any other way.

:dunno:

Too bad the OP doesn't have a small mirror like a dental mirror. That and a small flashlight would show us what is just past the chamber....Well, as I mention it, any sub caliber round that will align it's primer with the striker can and will fire if the striker hits the primer, even without any support, I can guarantee it, because I've done it, with empty cases, with primer only... :supergrin:

I bet, if we got the mirror and the flashlight, you'll be looking at the bottom of a shell with blown off primer... :cool:

nraman
07-18-2012, 22:33
Sorry if my thread has caused any commotion. I was just looking for answers, not stir anything up.

Thanks for posting, that's what we are here for.
Even if it was your mistake, we all learn from it. Not to mention that we all have made a mistake at one time or another.

G36's Rule
07-19-2012, 07:00
...Well, as I mention it, any sub caliber round that will align it's primer with the striker can and will fire if the striker hits the primer, even without any support, I can guarantee it, because I've done it, with empty cases, with primer only... :supergrin:

I bet, if we got the mirror and the flashlight, you'll be looking at the bottom of a shell with blown off primer... :cool:

Absolutely a sub caliber can be fired. It will stay in the chamber as well.

tahco gunworks
07-19-2012, 08:01
:supergrin:Nah its not you and very common in 40 cal. Called a head seperation and it used to blow the crap out of a glock.
Untrue.

I worked for Glock up until recently and this is absolutely not correct.

Tula ammo is extremely inconsistent and very hot. Tula is well aware of the issue with their ammo, as I've talked to them many times over the past year for rounds that were apparently double charged causing issues as the OP mentioned.

Glock barrels have no less support than any other 40 SW pistols. Originally there was more radius however those were pistols in the mid 90s.

If properly loaded to SAMMI specs, you won't have separation as Doc mentioned.

Sgt127
07-19-2012, 10:07
Theory.

The 9mm bullet was stuck in the barrel. The .40 couldn't seat in the chamber and fired out of battery. The .40 bullet hit the primer and fired the 9mm. The gun did NOT explode because it was firing out of battery, therefore, all the pressure vented out the back and done the magwell. The 9mm round was between a rock and a hard place. The bullet, trying to leave the barrel was pushing the case back, the .40 bullet was pushing forward, but, with very little pressure since the case blew and all the pressure was being released out the back of the gun.

Now, what happened to the .40 bullet? Dunno. Fell out of the mag well right after the mag was released possibly.

The answer may be in looking at the back of the 9mm case in the barrel. If it is severly deformed on the backside, My thory holds. If we could find the .40 bullet, it may have a mirror imprint of the 9mm case head.

borgranta
07-19-2012, 10:53
Today I took my Glock 22 Gen4(5000 rounds since March 2012) out to the range and experienced an issue. I loaded with Tulammo, pulled the slide back to chamber a round, and fired. On the first shot the slide locked back, frame curved, and jammed. It ejected the case from the first round, and had the next one partially out of the mag.

As soon as it jammed I went to clear(chamber was clear of any rounds). I couldn't release the slide. Had to place barrel on table to force it down to release the frame from being curved before it either cracked or was damaged more. Once I did that I was able to cycle the slide, and the frame straightened out again(besides the pig nose). However I can not pull down on the slide lock tabs to disassemble the gun.

I'm assuming its possible I didn' put the spring back into the half moon when I cleaned it last. I'm usually very good about it, but mistakes happen. After cleaning I do cycle the slide a few times to make sure its smooth and to distribute any oil on the rails. I didn't feel any issues when I did that, nor when loading that first round. I also cycled the slide a few times before using to make sure it was empty. When I fired the shot I did feel like gunpowder residue pepper my face(good thing I had eye protection).

Problem is..

How to I get the slide lock tabs unstuck?
Is it even safe to shoot again, or am I better off sending it to glock?

I'm hoping I just need to replace the spring instead of sending it off to glock. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

I would suggest taking it to a gunsmith that might be able to help you disassemble it and remove the obstruction from th barrel directly.

di11igaf
07-19-2012, 11:55
...Well, as I mention it, any sub caliber round that will align it's primer with the striker can and will fire if the striker hits the primer, even without any support, I can guarantee it, because I've done it, with empty cases, with primer only... :supergrin:

I bet, if we got the mirror and the flashlight, you'll be looking at the bottom of a shell with blown off primer... :cool:

Here's what makes sense to me- 9mm is chambered. I'm guessing its not held completely tight to the breech face, trigger is pulled, 9mm fires, but since there could be a small gap behind the case (even if extractor is somewhat holding it), the primer blows backwards, not even necessarily completely out of the case yet, just enough for gas to vent around primer. This would basically turn the whole case into a small rocketship for a split second, it jumps the extractor claw, then fully expands in the barrel and stops.

Sgt127
07-19-2012, 12:01
Here's what makes sense to me- 9mm is chambered. I'm guessing its not held completely tight to the breech face, trigger is pulled, 9mm fires, but since there could be a small gap behind the case (even if extractor is somewhat holding it), the primer blows backwards, not even necessarily completely out of the case yet, just enough for gas to vent around primer. This would basically turn the whole case into a small rocketship for a split second, it jumps the extractor claw, then fully expands in the barrel and stops.

I've seen a bunch of 9's fired in .40's. .40's fired in .45's. Nothing happens. The round sounds kind of like a mortar, makes a "poompf" sound, case swells, maybe cracks, and, thats it. Nothing like all the excitement the OP had going on...

.38 super
07-19-2012, 13:42
I've seen a bunch of 9's fired in .40's. .40's fired in .45's. Nothing happens. The round sounds kind of like a mortar, makes a "poompf" sound, case swells, maybe cracks, and, thats it. Nothing like all the excitement the OP had going on...I agree. This is exactly what I would expect from 9mill round fired in .40 chamber, unsupported.
However, I'm not sure if the "excitement" really happened. If he can operate the slide, there is nothing wrong with the frame is my guess, we have no visible outside damage, this is enough for me to conclude that the frame is OK. I could be wrong of course, but this is only my opinion...

I will respectfully disagree with the 2 bullets theory... We would be looking at completely different picture if this was the case IMHO.

.38 super
07-19-2012, 13:45
Untrue.

Tula ammo is extremely inconsistent and very hot. Tula is well aware of the issue with their ammo, as I've talked to them many times over the past year for rounds that were apparently double charged causing issues as the OP mentioned.

Glock barrels have no less support than any other 40 SW pistols. Originally there was more radius however those were pistols in the mid 90s.

If properly loaded to SAMMI specs, you won't have separation as Doc mentioned. 100% with you on this.

.38 super
07-19-2012, 13:58
Here's what makes sense to me- 9mm is chambered. I'm guessing its not held completely tight to the breech face, trigger is pulled, 9mm fires, but since there could be a small gap behind the case (even if extractor is somewhat holding it), the primer blows backwards, not even necessarily completely out of the case yet, just enough for gas to vent around primer. This would basically turn the whole case into a small rocketship for a split second, it jumps the extractor claw, then fully expands in the barrel and stops. IMHO, what happened is somewhere between this and what JBS and some other guys are saying, it cannot be other way I think and I'm very curious to see what Glock will find and how the empty case looks like... Anything could block the slide lock, it could be installed in opposite way and bent during the accident, they could be some debris blown in or something... I don't think a single sub-caliber round without support and seal will cause enough damage to destroy the gun, especially Glock, but again - I could be wrong, we can only guess based on some limited info...

GlockWheeler
07-19-2012, 15:56
An officer I worked with had something similar happen with a G21 about 12 years ago. He had three different caliber ammunition boxes sitting on the range bench in close proximity to one another and he was talking, not paying attention to what he was doing while reloading his G21 magazines. He was reloading the mags by using the thumb of the hand grasping the magazine to apply downward pressure on the top round in the magazine as he used the other hand to feed ammunition into the magazine (confused? me too).

He managed to pick up a 40S&W round and loaded it into a magazine (smaller round was held in the magazine by downward pressure from his grasping hand). He then loaded two to three 45 ACP rounds over the 40 round. All I remember is that shots number 4 (and subsequently 5) were less than normal. In the end, the 40S&W round did, indeed fire. He said he noticed decreased recoil and a fail to feed occurred. He performed a tap, rack, bang and when he pulled the trigger, it really went bang. The slide was locked slightly to the rear and the barrel was bulged.

Ultimately, he sent the pistol to Glock and they determined that somehow, the 40 casing was forced ahead of the 45ACP round following his tap, rack, bang and he fired a live round behind the stuck casing. Not implying that this is what happened in the OP's case at all, just sharing what happened to a friend, and yes, I was there when it happened.

di11igaf
07-19-2012, 16:09
An officer I worked with had something similar happen with a G21 about 12 years ago. He had three different caliber ammunition boxes sitting on the range bench in close proximity to one another and he was talking, not paying attention to what he was doing while reloading his G21 magazines. He was reloading the mags by using the thumb of the hand grasping the magazine to apply downward pressure on the top round in the magazine as he used the other hand to feed ammunition into the magazine (confused? me too).

He managed to pick up a 40S&W round and loaded it into a magazine (smaller round was held in the magazine by downward pressure from his grasping hand). He then loaded two to three 45 ACP rounds over the 40 round. All I remember is that shots number 4 (and subsequently 5) were less than normal. In the end, the 40S&W round did, indeed fire. He said he noticed decreased recoil and a fail to feed occurred. He performed a tap, rack, bang and when he pulled the trigger, it really went bang. The slide was locked slightly to the rear and the barrel was bulged.

Ultimately, he sent the pistol to Glock and they determined that somehow, the 40 casing was forced ahead of the 45ACP round following his tap, rack, bang and he fired a live round behind the stuck casing. Not implying that this is what happened in the OP's case at all, just sharing what happened to a friend, and yes, I was there when it happened.
Was there anything left stuck in the barrel after the 45 round was fired?

GlockWheeler
07-19-2012, 16:21
To the best of my recollection, the actual bullet did not leave the barrel.

Troy H
07-19-2012, 17:09
That is interesting. How much resistance would it take in the barrel for the casing and slide assembly to become the projectile when the bullet goes boom?

(I'll stop editing... I think I just drilled my post down to the important part. :) )

GlockWheeler
07-19-2012, 17:56
Not sure, to be honest, but I recall the recoil on my friend's G21 was obviously much greater than normal because he said his hand was stinging after firing the second shot behind the stuck casing. As I think back, it does seem that the frame on his Glock was also bowed to some degree as well. After 12 years some of the details are a little foggy
:uglylol:.

GlockWheeler
07-19-2012, 17:57
God, I'm getting old or something. Double post.

Troy H
07-19-2012, 18:10
To the OP,

You mentioned shooting "snap caps" to check the cycling on your gun.
1. I assume you fired these before this event?
2. Do you mean blanks not snap caps? Were there 9mm blanks present?

I'm becoming more inclined to say that a 9mm blank didn't eject after you fired it. Then you fired a 40 into it.

...One thing I can add that was not mentioned is before knowing there was a case in the barrel I ran a few snap caps to test if the slide functioned, and ejector worked...

Chris Brines
07-19-2012, 18:20
Here's a few pictures showing the case stuck.

Wow. I didn't notice the curve in the first pic but I sure as heck noticed in this one.

JuneyBooney
07-19-2012, 23:09
You got very lucky. I bet the pressure was over 80k. Glock will more than likely cover the firearm. I would never use that ammo again in anything at all.

Peace Warrior
07-20-2012, 05:19
Brass in barrel made me think a 9mm went into a .40 hole, even without the photos.

Good luck OP.

ETA: The severity of the curve has me swinging.

Drain You
08-20-2012, 00:22
Well?

cowboy1964
08-20-2012, 10:40
I've never had problem with any Russian ammo other than 2 primers that required a double strike. I generally don't use it any more now that I hand load.

Foxtrotx1
08-20-2012, 22:45
I'd bet there is a bullet behind that case. The powder won't burn and pressure wont build entirely if the gun unlocks early due to a SEVERE obstruction.

Oh yeah, to twist it even more, I'm willing to bet it's a 9mm bullet deformed to fit the barrel.

I think the OP was dumb enough to put a 9mm mag in his .40

toshbar
08-21-2012, 12:36
Guns do not unlock early if there is an obstruction.

9mm bullets don't deform to fit bigger barrels.

Kevin108
08-21-2012, 13:17
You can get the case out. All you need is a thin tool to pound between the case the the chamber to bend the case walls in. As long as the tool is softer than the barrel you won't hurt anything.
First thing that came to my mind was taking an aluminum yarn needle and grinding a point on the hook end.

Foxtrotx1
08-21-2012, 15:53
Guns do not unlock early if there is an obstruction.

9mm bullets don't deform to fit bigger barrels.

Have you ever fire formed a case inside the barrel, then shot a round behind it, both of which were sub caliber for the barrel?

So how would you know?

Of course a 9mm could squish to fit the barrel, it's soft lead.

toshbar
08-21-2012, 18:08
Have you ever fire formed a case inside the barrel, then shot a round behind it, both of which were sub caliber for the barrel?

So how would you know?

Of course a 9mm could squish to fit the barrel, it's soft lead.

The OP has a .40 caliber. (0.400 inches = 10mm) A 9mm projectile will not 'squish' at all to fit down a tube that it will easily pass through with only the force of gravity.

.38 super
08-23-2012, 16:34
Oh yeah, to twist it even more, I'm willing to bet it's a 9mm bullet deformed to fit the barrel.

I think the OP was dumb enough to put a 9mm mag in his .40 :supergrin:... I would not call the OP "dumb" considering sircumstances described... "Inexperienced" - maybe, but not "dumb"...
The situation you are describing will not produce the picture from the OPís post, bottom of the shell will not look like this, also 9mm bullet will not fire-form in the barrel just by the 9mm casing stuck in it, itís not a strong obstruction.
The reason I know it Ė I fired 9mm round behind another 9mm bullet stuck in a barrel, they both left the barrel, based on this I donít believe a shell will obstruct the barrel enough to fire-form a 9mm bullet behind and still look like the one on the OPís pictureÖ
Iím with toshbar on this... :wavey:

Foxtrotx1
08-23-2012, 20:07
The OP has a .40 caliber. (0.400 inches = 10mm) A 9mm projectile will not 'squish' at all to fit down a tube that it will easily pass through with only the force of gravity.

:faint:The bullet would squish when it hit the back of the 9mm case STUCK in the barrel.

toshbar
08-24-2012, 07:13
No way. it would blow the brass and itself out the muzzle without being the slightest bit deformed. That or it would punch a hole through the head of the case.

Do you know how weak and pliable a 9mm case is? Go tear one up with some pliers and then see how much more force it takes to squeeze (from front to back) the bullet to get it to deform enough to expand 1mm in diameter.

Foxtrotx1
08-24-2012, 14:59
lead is usually softer than brass. I'm just guessing here, you have a better theory as to how the case went off half way down the barrel?

.38 super
11-20-2012, 23:10
We did not have any updates from Ejayisson (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/member.php?u=196194) did we?
I'm still interested what Glock found in the barrel...

jfost11
11-20-2012, 23:31
We did not have any updates from Ejayisson (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/member.php?u=196194) did we?
I'm still interested what Glock found in the barrel...

No, he hasn't posted since July. I was interested in seeing all the speculation come to an end.

singularity35
11-20-2012, 23:40
Seen that happen with a 1911. A .40 round was inadvertently(who does those deliberately? :supergrin:) inserted in the mag and just worked itself near the muzzle when it was fired with a proper round. Barrel bulged and other associated damage.

toshbar
11-21-2012, 20:21
He was last logged in on 10/31.