The Thompson - LaGarde Test, birth of the 45ACP. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Trigger Finger
07-19-2012, 18:49
This is good, informative read. Many people have not heard this story in it's entirety.

Some people find the results debatable, others find them very truthful and reliable. Scientifically conducted by methods that may not be able to be duplicated today due to humanitarian terms.

http://www.guns.com/lthompson-lagarde-test-45-colt-1911-9819.html

For information. In my opinion I agree with the results!

Berto
07-19-2012, 18:59
I also tend to agree with the conclusions based on what they had at the time and generally non-expanding ammo, save the .455 British with the cupped wadcutter 'manstopper' loads....which they observed working very well.

collim1
07-19-2012, 19:04
That was an interesting read. I think with ball ammo bigger is better when it comes to handguns, so I dont think the results are inaccurate.

I am wondering if the .45acp was a copper plated bullet back then or was it LRN?

m2hmghb
07-19-2012, 19:15
I have some WW1 45 ACP that is either cupro nickel or LRN, I believe it is lead due to the color, but since it's so old it's hard to tell(and I won't scratch them). They're 1917 and 1918 UMC or Winchester(I don't recall for sure, and I don't feel like digging them out).

WayaX
07-19-2012, 19:57
The Philipines get sited as the reason for the .45 ACP, and this is true. However, it should also be noted that there are also many reports that not even the rifle round was stoping charging Filipinos. The fact is, without disrupting the CNS, a determined attacker can be hard to stop. So the idea that the .45 ACP would solve the problem it was meant to solve was truly flawed. Is the .45 ACP M1911 an upgrade from the .38 revolvers of the time? Absolutely. Would the .45 ACP have performed as the "man-stopper" it was put out to be in the same scenario as the round it replaced? I'd wager heavily on "no".

bac1023
07-19-2012, 20:47
Very interesting

Trigger Finger
07-19-2012, 21:38
The Philipines get sited as the reason for the .45 ACP, and this is true. However, it should also be noted that there are also many reports that not even the rifle round was stoping charging Filipinos. The fact is, without disrupting the CNS, a determined attacker can be hard to stop. So the idea that the .45 ACP would solve the problem it was meant to solve was truly flawed. Is the .45 ACP M1911 an upgrade from the .38 revolvers of the time? Absolutely. Would the .45 ACP have performed as the "man-stopper" it was put out to be in the same scenario as the round it replaced? I'd wager heavily on "no".

The article I cited and linked to also mentions the shortcomings of the service rifle against the Moros!!

"The round wasn’t just lackluster when fired from a revolver either, and shooters experienced the same problems with their service rifles"

This article dealt more with dealing with the shortcomings of the 38 cartridge and the superiority of the 45acp!

Berto
07-19-2012, 22:37
The article I cited and linked to also mentions the shortcomings of the service rifle against the Moros!!

"The round wasn’t just lackluster when fired from a revolver either, and shooters experienced the same problems with their service rifles"

This article dealt more with dealing with the shortcomings of the 38 cartridge and the superiority of the 45acp!

I agree the .38 didn't perform well and the .45 may be a step up, but it's also been established the .45 (Colt) didn't perform much better against the Moros, nor did the 'Krag.

Jim Watson
07-19-2012, 22:51
If you want to read the real thing instead of a glowing rewrite of history, it is up at
http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/TLGR/tlgr.html

They sure got a lot of mileage out of ten cattle and some horses and cadavers. Interesting that while multiple hits with a .45 would put a critter down faster than a 9mm or .38, there just was not much difference in animals hit with a single shot of different calibers.

I think the brass had their minds made up and were determined to go back to the .45.


I am wondering if the .45acp was a copper plated bullet back then or was it LRN?

All the .45 auto bullets were jacketed, not plated or bare lead.