Colt awarded 1911 contract for Marine Corps [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mrsurfboard
07-20-2012, 14:13
The 1911, still the greatest!

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/07/20/colt-awarded-contract-from-u-s-marine-corps/

Spiffums
07-20-2012, 16:26
What about the 4 that cracked before the 12k test was done? Thread over at M4Carbine.

jb1911
07-20-2012, 17:08
That's great news! USA! USA!

Baba Louie
07-20-2012, 17:21
$22.5 million for 4000 1911s?!?!

Why that's a mere $5,625 per handgun. Such a deal. Probably get a few extras thrown in to boot I hope...

Ruggles
07-20-2012, 20:00
$22.5 million for 4000 1911s?!?!

Why that's a mere $5,625 per handgun. Such a deal. Probably get a few extras thrown in to boot I hope...


Wow that must include a cost structure outside of just the 1911s :dunno:

I am not a "fanboy" of any 1911 brand per say but I have to say

1911 + USMC + Colt = :supergrin: Just seems "right"


In my book

Jim S.
07-20-2012, 21:33
$22.5 million for 4000 1911s?!?!

I would imagine that is with a lot of spare/ replacement parts and a couple of extra magazines.

1911 + USMC + Colt = Just seems "right"

Yep, seems like a good fit.

AKRover
07-20-2012, 22:28
Nice to see the US military buying from a US manufacturer.


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mj9mm
07-20-2012, 22:35
if they would have done that last year it would have had added meaning:wavey:

TxGun
07-20-2012, 23:01
$22.5 million for 4000 1911s?!?!

Why that's a mere $5,625 per handgun. Such a deal. Probably get a few extras thrown in to boot I hope...

Gotta be a misprint somewhere. In any case, it's great news...an iconic handgun back in the hands of the Marines!

1911Tuner
07-21-2012, 04:05
What about the 4 that cracked before the 12k test was done? Thread over at M4Carbine.


Which part cracked...slide or frame?

If it was the frame, in the usual place...at the junction of the impact abutment and spring tunnel...it's neither here nor there. It's the result of thin cross-sections and sharp corners.

Those cracks are self-limiting and don't affect the function of the pistol in any way. I've got a pair of early 1991A1 Colts that I've used for range beaters for over 20 years. They're approaching 400,000 rounds about evenly split. They both cracked at that area somewhere around the 12-15k mark, and they're both still walkin' the walk. The cracks went to a point and stopped.

Everybody worries far too much over the frame and not enough about the slide. The slide/barrel assembly is the gun. The frame is essentially no more than the gun mount and a housing for the controls.

fasteddie565
07-21-2012, 07:30
$22.5 million for 4000 1911s?!?!

Why that's a mere $5,625 per handgun. Such a deal. Probably get a few extras thrown in to boot I hope...

The guns don't just show up.

New equipment comes with depot, armorer and user level training, an entire buttload of repair parts and often times, active participation in the fielding plan, travel expenses, man hours etc. I have not managed a weapons contract, but I would wager that half of the expense is for fielding, training, repair parts etc.

If you place a mil spec on say for instance the magazines, that can jack the price of a $25 mag to over $100. This may not be the case, I just wanted to point out the guns themselves do not cost $5k.

Baba Louie
07-21-2012, 08:07
I just wanted to point out the guns themselves do not cost $5k. I know, but G&A's article did not go into detail. I was just funnin' a little bit. However I can hear the public naysayers now what with the $$$ toilet seats, etc that Uncle Sam has bought in the past.

What did the FBI's SA Inc Pros run each tho? A few grand each if memory serves ($2.5K+), and not a production piece either.

I agree, US Marines + Colt 1911s = a Natural.

Diesel McBadass
07-21-2012, 08:13
Ive been eyeing a rail gun.....looks like theyll be scarce for years now. Ah well at least the marines get a kickass pistol.

Baba Louie
07-21-2012, 10:12
Wondering aloud... will the USMC Force Recon have Blackhawk SERPA hosters made 'specially for the rail gun M45 CQBP MEU(SOC)? Who makes Marine proof holsters anyway? DeSantis? Safariland?

Back on topic, while looking around for holsters etc, found this on MilitaryTimes

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/tag/usmc/

Rick C
07-21-2012, 12:30
Threads at arfcom and m4carbine indicate slide as well as frame cracks.
first page about 6 posts down.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_49/127530_USMC_may_go__Colt.html

Take it for what it's worth.

Dexters
07-21-2012, 12:45
Why are they going with the 7 round mag instead of the 8 round?

Decguns
07-21-2012, 12:47
I guess they need 4000 45's to go along with the 75,000 M9A1s they ordered.

ithaca_deerslayer
07-21-2012, 12:51
Why are they going with the 7 round mag instead of the 8 round?

Or a 15 round mag? :)

1911Tuner
07-21-2012, 12:54
Threads at arfcom and m4carbine indicate slide as well as frame cracks.
first page about 6 posts down.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_49/127530_USMC_may_go__Colt.html

Take it for what it's worth.

Those slide cracks are bad news, especially the ones in the breechface. My guess is that they're over-hardened and brittle.

Of course, everything except the frame is considered an expendable service part...including the slide. That's why the US Army ordered about a dozen for every complete pistol delivered in both world wars.

ca survivor
07-21-2012, 14:42
where are all the 1911s from before the switch to Berettas ?

Diesel McBadass
07-21-2012, 14:54
where are all the 1911s from before the switch to Berettas ?

worn out, so loose they rattle with awful sights and a tiny safety. People romanticise the things but remember none were made after ww2, they saw their day, buy new ones.

Baba Louie
07-21-2012, 16:27
I now understand that the contract is for up to 12,000 rail guns, not just the 4,000 reported in G&A. So call it $1875/firearm + spares + logistical support.

For those of you in the "facebook" know, see Colts facebook page for specifics.

Rick C
07-21-2012, 16:43
I now understand that the contract is for up to 12,000 rail guns, not just the 4,000 reported in G&A. So call it $1875/firearm + spares + logistical support.

For those of you in the "facebook" know, see Colts facebook page for specifics.

That's kind of close to my first SSN check if I retire this year.
Can we haggle?:rofl:

AKRover
07-21-2012, 17:26
It seems to me that if the government is buying all these 1911s they should go to all 1911s and get rid of the Berettas. I've never shot the Beretta, or a 9mm for that matter, but I'd prefer to see the government doing business with American companies. I know the switch was made to align with our allies that use the 9mm and that makes sense so why not switch to 1911s chambered in 9mm for the everyday bullet catcher and the 45 ACP 1911s for spec ops heroes. Parts interchangeability would be a lot higher than what we have now with different branches carrying completely different handguns.

RedsoxFan4Lyfe
07-21-2012, 21:11
It seems to me that if the government is buying all these 1911s they should go to all 1911s and get rid of the Berettas. I've never shot the Beretta, or a 9mm for that matter, but I'd prefer to see the government doing business with American companies. I know the switch was made to align with our allies that use the 9mm and that makes sense so why not switch to 1911s chambered in 9mm for the everyday bullet catcher and the 45 ACP 1911s for spec ops heroes. Parts interchangeability would be a lot higher than what we have now with different branches carrying completely different handguns.

I agree with you. Except I remember being about six or seven years old when they went to the Beretta and seeing the ad in Guns and Ammo and thinking rather sadly "Grandpa didn't carry THIS gun! What is this??" I came up on the 1911. I love it, and it's by far my favorite handgun.

I have owned a whole pile of the Beretta 92 9mm pistols as well. I like them, they are great shooters. They are not 1911's however.

We should just go back to the 1911 platform as a whole.

CDR_Glock
07-21-2012, 21:34
The Beretta is good, easy to maintain, and accurate. Armed with FMJs, the 45 ACP would be more effective. I love my 1911s. They're awesome.

fnfalman
07-21-2012, 23:32
So, it comes full circle after all.

Lethaltxn
07-21-2012, 23:40
So, it comes full circle after all.

As it was in the beginning.....

Gary1911A1
07-22-2012, 05:14
Those slide cracks are bad news, especially the ones in the breechface. My guess is that they're over-hardened and brittle.

Of course, everything except the frame is considered an expendable service part...including the slide. That's why the US Army ordered about a dozen for every complete pistol delivered in both world wars.

Yes it is disturbing. Hopefully Colt can fix this. Are the new Colts for the Marines made from carbon or stainless? Saw on the M4 Forum a picture of cracks in the frame too. Wonder if that is due to the rail?:dunno: Hope it all gets worked out by Colt. I'd hate to piss off a bunch of Marines.:whistling:

mrsurfboard
07-22-2012, 12:51
worn out, so loose they rattle with awful sights and a tiny safety. People romanticise the things but remember none were made after ww2, they saw their day, buy new ones.

I agree. My PD got a few surplus 1911s from the government. They were pretty bad compared to a modern one.

Diesel McBadass
07-22-2012, 19:34
I agree. My PD got a few surplus 1911s from the government. They were pretty bad compared to a modern one.

i talked to a couple people in during the switch and they were happy, but would rather have new 1911s than berttas. new beretta>old 1911 though.

Dexters
07-22-2012, 19:37
Why are they going with the 7 round mag instead of the 8 round?

Thoughts.

ca survivor
07-23-2012, 06:13
worn out, so loose they rattle with awful sights and a tiny safety. People romanticise the things but remember none were made after ww2, they saw their day, buy new ones.
I'll buy some of those "worn out" new sights, tight every thing up change needed parts, if any, new grips, new paint job and it be 1/3 of the price.

fnfalman
07-23-2012, 08:44
If Colt were to win the contract with the cracked guns like that, I'd shudder to think how the IMBELs fared.

ca survivor
07-23-2012, 10:19
So, it comes full circle after all.
all it's needed now is the .308 rifle back!!!

fnfalman
07-23-2012, 11:29
all it's needed now is the .308 rifle back!!!

A T48 with wooden stock (and rails for the tactical type).

Travclem
07-23-2012, 14:33
Looks to me like the descision was made before the testing started. I'm very interested in seeing the results if/when they are released.

MajorD
07-24-2012, 19:08
remember folks these 1911's are for special ops personnel only- "regular" Marines still get the m9. Having spent two combat tours with an m9 on my hip I can say it is a completely functional accurate reliable pistol. like all semi autos they suffered for a time due to poor quality magazines, but that is not the guns fault. of all the factory stock combat 9mms I have shot it is easily the most accurate. Going back to a 1911 is definitely not the right move, when you consider a 1911's limitations in the hands of regular troops. back when the 1911 was standard issue, regualtion carry was hammer down on an empty chamber- rack it after the draw for your first shot. Given the choice between that and carrying a Beretta chambered and ready to go I'll take the Beretta.
Also logistics plays a big role- when we first got to kuwait they had to issue us all British made ammo due to shortages of U.S. made ammo. 9mm you have beats the .45 you can't get.

MannyA
07-24-2012, 19:17
Would the Glock 35 have been a better choice?:dunno::dunno:

Cool Hand Hodge
07-28-2012, 21:23
I love 1911s but i have to wonder about this a little. We have seen pics of spec. opp troops using HK Socoms, Sigs, Berettas, and 1911s. I wonder how wide spread these will be? Will the Army get on board?

jcal0820
07-29-2012, 02:22
Is this contract for sure only for the 'special' outfits, i.e. MARSCO/MEU-SOC, and not service wide? If there's 12,000 total in the batch for the initial contract, I'm thinking that could possibly field more than just those specialty outfits in the Corps, but all those who are supposed to be fielded a pistol Marines wide... remember, only certain folks in certain positions get issued a pistol, and with the Marines being such a small service when compared to the Army/Navy, 12,000 pistols seems like a Lot. Could this mean replacement of the M9 (Berretta) for all the Marines?

TangoFoxtrot
07-29-2012, 03:48
I'll bet they are not issueing hollow point rounds , but FMJ instead!

Baba Louie
07-29-2012, 03:49
Could this mean replacement of the M9 (Berretta) for all the Marines? Probably not. Force Recon, the MEU boys... tip of spear guys more than likely. Everyone else, as I understand it, will still have the Beretta.

Wondering if this order will be mfg in CT or in the new Colt facility in FL? ...and how this contract will affect civilian sale production? Will Colt make a batch run for Uncle Sams Misguided Children, then make a few for civilian distributorship, then more for Uncle Sam, etc?

Also wondering if the Marines will be able to break them, or should I say, how soon things will start to break, crack etc? The stress cracks everyone is writing about would be disconcerting to me if I was in charge of production. I'm old enough to remember the Colt M16 initial problems in Vietnam and there were serious problems at the time (my Dads two youngest brothers were both in the Corps at the time and had their M14s replaced with the 16s... bad juju, really bad juju at the time)

Glockdude1
07-29-2012, 03:51
I have to ask, What happened to the Springfield MC Operators for the Marines?

http://i50.tinypic.com/148m6wl.jpg

:dunno:

Gary1911A1
07-29-2012, 07:11
I have to ask, What happened to the Springfield MC Operators for the Marines?

http://i50.tinypic.com/148m6wl.jpg

:dunno:

Don't know, but I bet Colt made a point their 1911s' were 100% USA made.

Lethaltxn
07-29-2012, 09:15
I have to ask, What happened to the Springfield MC Operators for the Marines?

http://i50.tinypic.com/148m6wl.jpg

:dunno:

Good point. Love to see some of those get sold to the public.

Glockster17
07-29-2012, 10:47
Major D: well said and the truth!

mustang6112
08-01-2012, 22:13
Is this contract for sure only for the 'special' outfits, i.e. MARSCO/MEU-SOC, and not service wide? If there's 12,000 total in the batch for the initial contract, I'm thinking that could possibly field more than just those specialty outfits in the Corps, but all those who are supposed to be fielded a pistol Marines wide... remember, only certain folks in certain positions get issued a pistol, and with the Marines being such a small service when compared to the Army/Navy, 12,000 pistols seems like a Lot. Could this mean replacement of the M9 (Berretta) for all the Marines?

Nope strictly limited to Marine Special Operations/Recon units. The 12,000 pistols will be fielded over a 5 year period, just over 4000 are to be deliver the first year. The two biggest reasons (outside of service-wide uniformity) that the MC will NOT replace the M9 with the 45 for everyone is 1) The M9 meets certain requirements that the 45 does not: DA/SA, ability to carry the weapon with a round in the chamber while the hammer is forward and the safety is on, ect. and
2) is of course cost, the 45 is more expensive to maintain.

Dexters
08-02-2012, 06:56
2) is of course cost, the 45 is more expensive to maintain.

Can you explain that one?

brisk21
08-02-2012, 08:23
I think its great, but Im very suprised.

bigtimelarry
08-02-2012, 08:38
I'd much rather have a Lighter Glock that holds more rounds.. But good for USA to get the sale..

fnfalman
08-02-2012, 13:01
I'd much rather have a Lighter Glock that holds more rounds.. But good for USA to get the sale..

Uncle Sam wants a gun that doesn't blow up in their fighting men's hands.

mustang6112
08-02-2012, 21:46
Can you explain that one?

Parts for the Beretta are a dime a dozen and the cost is lower compared to parts for custom 1911 platforms.

fnfalman
08-03-2012, 11:17
Parts for the Beretta are a dime a dozen and the cost is lower compared to parts for custom 1911 platforms.

Except that the Colt XSE Rail Gun ain't "custom".

rahrah12
08-03-2012, 12:50
wonder what this will do for wait times...

fnfalman
08-03-2012, 13:02
wonder what this will do for wait times...

For what? Their custom shop?

mustang6112
08-03-2012, 18:02
Except that the Colt XSE Rail Gun ain't "custom".

yeah your right, the one that you or I can buy isn't, the one the Marine Corps bought is..........

mustang6112
08-03-2012, 18:04
Uncle Sam wants a gun that doesn't blow up in their fighting men's hands.

bold statement on a Glock forum ( not to say that it hasn't happened)
Oh by, the way Uncle Sam already uses the Glock... just sayin'

brisk21
08-03-2012, 20:45
Uncle Sam wants a gun that doesn't blow up in their fighting men's hands.


Why not? They were ok with a gun that the slide could be pulled off by hand:rofl:

fnfalman
08-03-2012, 21:27
Why not? They were ok with a gun that the slide could be pulled off by hand:rofl:

Only Jet Li can do that because he's awesome.

fnfalman
08-03-2012, 21:28
yeah your right, the one that you or I can buy isn't, the one the Marine Corps bought is..........

What's "custom" about it other than the color and the grip?

Travclem
08-03-2012, 23:03
What's "custom" about it other than the color and the grip?

Nothing's custom, it's a Colt.


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fnfalman
08-04-2012, 04:11
Nothing's custom, it's a Colt.


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Exactly. Because everything else is a copy and need some sort of custom touch to work right. Uncle Sam started with Colt M1911 and ends with Colt M1911 as God and John Moses Browning both decreed. No inferior foreign jobs for America's finest fighting outfit.