Protecting a handicapped stranger? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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hayabusa200
07-21-2012, 08:44
Just curious as to what would have been the proper thing to do in the following situation if things would have escalated.

I was out to dinner with my wife at a nice restaurant when three men started arguing with the waitress about not paying for a shrimp cocktail because it was served in a not so clean bowl. I myself probably would have been upset too, but not to the point where I would have made a scene. Anyway, the three men decided to leave without paying for that part of the bill. As they walked out the door, the manager who just happens to be in a wheelchair and is missing both legs proceeds to confront them outside regarding what just happened. He then sternly asked them to go back in and pay their bill. Now mind you, these three men were easily 275-300+# each, not your average size guys. The confrontation started to escalate to where I felt that there was a very good chance that they may have physically attacked the manager, they were that irate.Confined to a wheelchair, or not, they didnt seem to care. Now luckily the police were called and four patrol cars showed up in several minutes, but if it came down to these three huge guys attacking a man in a wheelchair, what would have been the proper thing to do if there were no police there? Obviously there was no one there that could have physically taken any one of these guys down, let alone all three of them.

K.Kiser
07-21-2012, 09:01
Punch for the adam's apple, from the side under the ear, gouge eyes, and squeeze balls, and given it was a restaurant don't forget the advatages of eating utensils to their orifices -- use your enviroment.. Big azzwhole guys are definitely the funnest to stomp on.. If I ended getting beat on, I can't think of a whole lot better reasons to lose a fight..

Given their attitude toward the manager, if you had came to his assistance and starting absorbing the violence, there would be others to come to your aid if there was a pair of scrotes to be found in the audience ..

I had an uncle (now deceased) that was in a chair, but he always had a Colt 1911 that he carried for nearly 30 years and it kept him safe on a few occasions..

Kudos for the manager sticking to his ground knowing his own limitations, that's character and courage and I'd like to shake his hand..

CAcop
07-21-2012, 09:17
If there are multiple people beating a person of limited mobility that would become assualt with a deadly weapon in my state. Theoretically you could make a citizens arrest by telling them to stop and them submitting to the arrest. Now how could you make them stop? Sounds like they are inflicting potentially deadly force on the victim.

Luckily in todays world most people stop when told the police are coming, especially if you are holding a cell phone in your hand.

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FireForged
07-21-2012, 10:47
If I feel that a innocent persons life may be forfit (right here, right now, in this moment) and I have enough information to feel confident about who the good guy is and who the bad guy is... I would be inclined to aid the victim.

However, I am not going to stick around observing chaos unfolding. It is not my desire or intent to get in between two fighting men, investigate odd happenings in dark alleys or chase purse snatchers.

I would most certainly risk my life to save a child who wondered into traffic but I am not so inclinded to get into other peoples business or solve their troubles.

Dexters
07-21-2012, 10:54
at a nice restaurant when three men started arguing with the waitress about not paying for a shrimp cocktail because it was served in a not so clean bowl.

Did they eat
1 all the shrimp and then notice the bowl was not clean,
2 some of the shrimp and then notice it
3 didn't eat any of the shrimp

Usually, the customer is always right, especially when it comes to sanitation.

Sounds like the restaurant should have defused the situation early on since they alienated the 3 guys and annoyed the other diners.

Novocaine
07-21-2012, 11:52
My immediate tactical course of action would be writing mental note to never patronize this place again.

I almost feel for the owners, they can’t even fire this tool of a manager.

Why do you refer to the place as “nice”? In my neck of woods nice places are run by people who are more concerned about keeping serving plates clean than about insulting the customers.

dnuggett
07-21-2012, 11:57
Call the police, observe and be a good witness. Beyond that realize that anything you insert yourself into can result in a world of physical and/or financial hurt for you. Is the bowl of shrimp worth it to you? It obviously was to the manager. He made a poor choice in my opinion, although I commend his conviction and principle. It's up to you if his poor choice becomes your problem- potentially a problem you deal with for the rest of your life.

Generally speaking my family's safety and my safety come before a restaurant manager who decided a bowl of shrimp was worth going after.

4 glocks
07-21-2012, 12:55
Is a $5 to $8 shrimp cocktail worth the hassel? If they paid for everything else let it go. Sounds to me like all involved mishandeled the situation. I would not put anyone's life in danger over $5.

Never Nervous
07-21-2012, 21:29
You were considering confronting almost 1000 pounds of already angry men over a $5.00 shrimp cocktail? The manager made a bad choice for whatever reason. They throw away more food and stuff than that at the end of the night. Most places would have written that off. They did pay for the rest of the meals right?:dunno:

NN

ancient_serpent
07-21-2012, 22:07
Not in that situation, call the police and let them handle it (unless of course the men had started action you felt was likely to lead to the death of, or at least would hav inflicted serious bodily harm to the manager.

hayabusa200
07-21-2012, 22:22
You were considering confronting almost 1000 pounds of already angry men over a $5.00 shrimp cocktail? The manager made a bad choice for whatever reason. They throw away more food and stuff than that at the end of the night. Most places would have written that off. They did pay for the rest of the meals right?:dunno:

NN

Very true, but I guess I am a little sympathetic towards a handicapped person, being that my mother has been paralyzed since I was four. Im just glad the police showed up before any of these goofs did something.
I guess the manager takes his job just a little more serious than he should, especially in his situation. He should have called the cops and let them handle it, and luckily someone did, and kudos to the officers for their prompt response.

BamaTrooper
07-21-2012, 23:25
Is a $5 to $8 shrimp cocktail worth the hassel? If they paid for everything else let it go. Sounds to me like all involved mishandeled the situation. I would not put anyone's life in danger over $5.

The question was whether or not to defend the legless manager if he was assaulted by three large, irate customers.

Bruce M
07-22-2012, 07:44
And there in lies the real issue with these type discussions and events. Alot of shootings when viewed from the five or ten seconds before the shooting seem to be legitimate but when the events leading up to the five or ten seconds are reviewed, the shooting can seem much more clouded. While the court may well end up just considering those five or ten seconds to determine guilt or innocence the decision to take the event to court and the court of public opinion often seem to consider a broader view of events.

At the risk of being repetitive for every shooting I have been to or read of in which it was instantly clear who was the good guy and who was the bad guy, there was another in which the lines were at best very blurry.

4 glocks
07-22-2012, 12:16
The question was whether or not to defend the legless manager if he was assaulted by three large, irate customers.

Over a $5 scrimp cocktail? Pick your battles, this one was not worth fighting over for all parties involved.

The best option would to be offer to pay for the three mens $5 cocktail, everyone wins.

BamaTrooper
07-23-2012, 08:31
Over a $5 scrimp cocktail? Pick your battles, this one was not worth fighting over for all parties involved.

The best option would to be offer to pay for the three mens $5 cocktail, everyone wins.

Viable 3rd option and probably a better way to keep someone from getting assaulted, but do you end up drawing a line on how much you pay to keep the peace? What if it was a $500 dollar tab?

If you decide to get involved at all, have more than one scenario played through. Just sayin':dunno:

SigFTW
07-23-2012, 09:07
Is a $5 to $8 shrimp cocktail worth the hassel? If they paid for everything else let it go. Sounds to me like all involved mishandeled the situation. I would not put anyone's life in danger over $5.

:agree:

fnfalman
07-23-2012, 09:15
If the manager were smart, he wouldn't have let the situation escalated at all.

He'd simply call the cops and report them after he asked them to pay and they said no.

I doubt that there is anything in any company's manual that would say employees are to physically detain customers over bills unpaid.

IGotIt
07-23-2012, 09:40
If a handicapped person was being physically battered it would be expected that someone would intervene on their behalf.

Saying that, was the dirty bowl issue brought up when it was discovered, or after the bill was brought to the table? Whatever the issue, once the men were asked to pay and refused, the manager has two choices, one to let it go and apologize for the dirty bowl, or call the police. Arguing with patrons at that point is senseless.

mrt949
07-23-2012, 11:29
Not My Fight. MyFamily different story. GAME ON .

BamaTrooper
07-23-2012, 12:34
Not My Fight. MyFamily different story. GAME ON .

Lots of people thinking that way. :dunno:

fnfalman
07-23-2012, 12:43
Lots of people thinking that way. :dunno:

Sometimes it's best to MYOB.

BamaTrooper
07-23-2012, 13:07
Sometimes it's best to MYOB.

Sometimes, but what I am trying to get people to realize is that at some point, when you subscribe to the "only me and mine" might be in need of help and surrounded by other "me and mine" thinkers.

How far should one extend their help? When there is no risk, limited risk, great risk? This is going to be an individual decision and one you need to be able to live with.

I know my answer.

Tired Retired
07-23-2012, 21:11
Let me pose the situation from this perspective - why does the wheelchair matter??????

Would this be a question if it was a non-physically challenged manager weighing it at a trim 225 verse the three 300 pound customers? Would you jump in on that fight?

What if it was a manager in wheelchair verses one 110-pound shinny teenager? Could you shoot someone like that and THEN explain WHY to a jury?

Again, Why does the wheelchair matter?


How many physically challenged people does this group PERSONALLY know or have a family members? As you look at the LIMITS of the leg-less man, did you ever stop to realize that he had probably compensated with greater up-body strength? And what are they going to do, lean DOWN and punch the manager? Yep, first punch would be downward, then they ALL would be down on the ground where the legless man has the ADVANTAGE. How many years of his life has he spent ON THE GROUND using his arms to get UP? I am 100% that manager knew exactly what he was doing.

Two comments here:

1) Always recognize the tactical situation for what it is. The manager probably knew what is exact limitations and advantages were, that is why he was baiting them.
(Oh, and don't forget that assaulting a disabled person is AUTOMATICALLY a felony with years tacked on in alot of states.)

2) Don't see a physical disability (wheelchair, blind, cane, etc) any differently than a disproportionate situation between any two other perpetrator/victim situation. Big guys mugging old ladies is easy to "come to the rescue", but what about a carjacking??? Are you willing to jump into that?

I say all this as a reflection - physically challenged people are PEOPLE, not wheelchairs. And you never know when they are BETTER at something than a non-wheelchair person!

Remember, God made men... Samuel Colt made them EQUAL...

Just my two cents because no one asked....