For or against open carry and why? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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WarEagle32
07-21-2012, 11:45
Open carry is an issue gaining ground where I live! I personally prefer concealed carry. As for open carry I don't do it, but I am for the right to be able to. Thoughts?

jakebrake
07-21-2012, 11:47
against.

you will freak out the soccermom and her kids.

you will look like a tin-foil yahoo.

perception becomes reality.

DustyJacket
07-21-2012, 12:00
do a search here on open carry and you will find years of arguements for and against

dnuggett
07-21-2012, 12:13
Neither for or against open carry. I absolutely support the right, but would not open carry.

Bob Hafler
07-21-2012, 12:17
Neither for or against open carry. I absolutely support the right, but would not open carry.


+1 I don't feel like I need to advertise that I carry.

Bob Hafler
07-21-2012, 12:22
against.

you will freak out the soccermom and her kids.

you will look like a tin-foil yahoo.

perception becomes reality.

With what has happened in Co. I don't think open carry is going to win over the hearts and minds of to many average citizens.
Unless I'm in the woods I'm covered.

M2 Carbine
07-21-2012, 12:24
For.

I wish Texas had OC.

you will freak out the soccermom and her kids.


That's exactly why I want open carry.
Get the idea across that good guys carry guns.

Far too many gun owners are afraid to speak up for themselves. They hide like little children that are afraid to do something because people might not like them.

Guess what, I couldn't give a damn because some left wing liberal anti gun turd doesn't like me carrying a gun.

On the other hand I have gotten a lot of interest from people when they find out I am a "gun person" with a gun in my pocket.
I even use my concealed carry license as identification.
When was the last time you invited a Bank Teller, or a Wal Mart checker, or the receptionist at the Vets to go shooting with you?
I have, and I suspect with OC we would meet a lot of people that we would turn to our side.


So, if TX got OC I'd OC sometimes but not always.

CajunBass
07-21-2012, 12:27
I open carry from time to time. If anyone ever "freaked out" about it, they didn't do when I was around. I've never been thrown to the ground by a cop. Never even had one ask me about it.

I normally make at least a half hearted attempt to conceal, but I don't lose sleep over it.

SCSU74
07-21-2012, 12:28
If OC is the only way you can legally carry then go for it. If cc is an option there is no reason to OC. Just my .02


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

SCSU74
07-21-2012, 12:31
For.

I wish Texas had OC.



That's exactly why I want open carry.
Get the idea across that good guys carry guns.

Far too many gun owners are afraid to speak up for themselves. They hide like little children that are afraid to do something because people might not like them.

Guess what, I couldn't give a damn because some left wing liberal anti gun turd doesn't like me carrying a gun.

On the other hand I have gotten a lot of interest from people when they find out I am a "gun person" with a gun in my pocket.
I even use my concealed carry license as identification.
When was the last time you invited a Bank Teller, or a Wal Mart checker, or the receptionist at the Vets to go shooting with you?
I have, and I suspect with OC we would meet a lot of people that we would turn to our side.


So, if TX got OC I'd OC sometimes but not always.

I'm surprised tx isn't to be honest. Some reason I doubt there would be much of an uproar down here. By and large the general public is very comfortable around guns and the chl holders I've run across have been very level headed. I'm sure OC will pass in the next year or so.


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

RGbiker
07-21-2012, 12:35
OC for me, because In Arizona I can.
In several years I've never been hassled by Police or Soccarmom.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

9jeeps
07-21-2012, 12:37
OC is for attention deficient ego monsters. I don't care what the law is. OC is just not common sense in the public arena unless you have a uniform badge to go along with it.

Here in Cowboy and Indian country the only OC you see is from the Big City Touristos. They stand out like a red barn on a gravel road. The locals just roll their eyes and nod toward the Big City Standout.

Same goes for psuedo Chopper Bad Boys:rofl:

Highspeedlane
07-21-2012, 12:56
Not for me personally. If I'm packing I want no one else to know. The exception would be if you're hunting in the woods as either a primary or backup arm.

09crue
07-21-2012, 13:20
if open carry is legal and someone is comfortable doing so,why not...

Brazos
07-21-2012, 14:05
I wish OC was legal in TX. CC is a pain. I would rather strap the pistol of my choosing to my hip. I think OC would make a big impact on reducing crime. A criminal would be much less likely to commit a crime when people are walking around with guns in sight.

The_Gun_Guru
07-21-2012, 14:18
For!

Because sometimes it is difficult to carry a larger gun concealed like when I go to a third-world COUNTY (Miami-Dade:rofl:).

I don't go there often, but when I do, I like to be well-armed.

FL NEEDS OC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:wavey:



TGG

janice6
07-21-2012, 14:26
I'm not against it. But, it's not for me. It takes away my tactical advantage of surprise with the BG's.

It also covers my *ss if I display accidentally.

M2 Carbine
07-21-2012, 14:31
I wish OC was legal in TX. CC is a pain.
For sure.

This time of year about all I can carry is a Ruger LCP in my pocket.

Redstate
07-21-2012, 14:42
In my opinion, open carry is just asking for problems. The benefits of open carry, if any, are far outweighed by the the detriments.

Chup
07-21-2012, 15:02
I don't care what anybody does. I will never open carry. I don't draw attention to myself. What I do is my business. I just blend in with every other old guy walking around. I feel if a bad guy or a group of bad guys is about to do something, the guy with a gun is a threat and will catch the first bullet so as not to get in the way. It may deter some but, a ruthless person or gang is not afraid and will eliminate anything that will get in there way. If you are standing at the Bank Teller window and Two Desperate Thugs come in and see a Guy with a Gun on his hip, who do you think will get the first bullet? Not just Joe Thief that is scared. I mean Guys that have no fear like Gang members. If you dress around your Gun you can carry a Full Size High Capacity Gun in high temperatures and humidity. I have carried 2 guns in Florida while wearing T-Shirt and Shorts. You do what you want.

ak103k
07-21-2012, 15:06
Im all for it. Anything that draws attention away from you is a good thing. ;)

Its like that boy on the highway you always can pick out, who wants to be bear bait. All it takes is that little "nudge", and hes right on it, thinking hes winning and ahead of you, all the while unknowingly running decoy for you out front there while you hold where you want to be, at 80-85. :supergrin:

countrygun
07-21-2012, 15:09
I like an advantage, surprise is a good one to have in your tool kit.

M2 Carbine
07-21-2012, 15:36
I feel if a bad guy or a group of bad guys is about to do something, the guy with a gun is a threat and will catch the first bullet so as not to get in the way.
I use to think this way but real life doesn't seem to bare this out.

There's no way of telling how many crimes have been prevented by the presence of a OC gun but I don't think I have ever heard of a OC person being shot at the beginning of a crime.

So now I tend to believe that a number of crimes were stopped before they got started, by the presence of a OC.

Bruce M
07-21-2012, 15:43
I am reminded of the "where and when appropriate" comment.

M2 Carbine
07-21-2012, 16:09
I am reminded of the "where and when appropriate" comment.

True.

I doubt I'd OC when spending the day running around Ft. Worth or Dallas but I suspect I'd OC when going to like Wal Mart, Home Depot, or my bank in my small town.

Limedust
07-21-2012, 16:15
I wish OC was legal in TX. CC is a pain. I would rather strap the pistol of my choosing to my hip. I think OC would make a big impact on reducing crime. A criminal would be much less likely to commit a crime when people are walking around with guns in sight.

Perhaps, but I suppose the committed ones would know who to shoot first.

BenjiEDF
07-21-2012, 16:26
I support open carry, why? Well the cops open carry and I'm one of the "good guys" too.

SCSU74
07-21-2012, 17:13
For sure.

This time of year about all I can carry is a Ruger LCP in my pocket.

Why? I carry a g17 or 21 year round. Get a good belt and decent holster. It conceals with a t shirt and cargo shorts


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

Arc Angel
07-21-2012, 17:13
Open carry is an issue gaining ground where I live! I personally prefer concealed carry. As for open carry I don't do it, but I am for the right to be able to. Thoughts?

:upeyes: Having a legal or technical right to do something is one thing; actually doing it is another. There is no such event as social behavior without consequence. Everything a person does has relevance to those around him. If you live in the woods, fine; maybe you can get away with one form, or another, of inoffensive open carry. However, if you're a suburban or city dweller then civilian open carry is not fine. Most often, in fact, it's alarming and offensive. In today's world civilian open carry might even be interpreted as a warning that something bad is about to happen.

I'll be perfectly honest with you. No matter what the diehard gun forum bozos think, I don't like to see a man walking around in a crowd carrying an exposed handgun. Yes, I've studied all the usual trite rationale. Carrying a pistol should not be about, 'public education'; it should not be about demonstrating for everybody's constitutional rights. At best this sort of antisocial behavior is what I call, 'small dick advertising'; at worst I think of it as a genuine psychological precursor to, 'shopping mall terror'.

Strip away all of the usual social facades; and what do you have? Guns aren't about target shooting; they're not about collecting; nor are they genuinely recreational. Guns are for stopping life and killing things - That's it! Oliver Winchester, whose guns took countless thousands of lives, once said, 'A gun is a machine for throwing lead balls.' What he neglected to say is, 'Mostly at other people!'

If anyone thinks that I don't trust civilians with guns; well, you're right; I don't. One of the reasons, 'Why' I've spent so much time on numerous firing lines, and still lived as long as I have is because I, quite frankly, don't trust people with guns. 'Why', you might ask? Because other people have taught me not to.

A savvy gunman should never do anything to alarm the people he associates with. A clever gunman should not walk around advertising himself as either a, 'candy store', or a, 'badass neighborhood protector'. (It's been my experience that, in the real world, 'Ranger Rabbits' don't last long.) A knowing gunman is going to keep his pistol to himself until he actually has to use it; and, then, that weapon should appear suddenly and as a complete surprise. :wow:

(I will agree that occasionally, 'flashing' a gun can be a useful deterrent against crime. Possibly, if George Zimmerman had flashed that little Kel-Tec as Trayvon Martin approached him, the fight that followed might never have happened; and both men would have come and gone in this world without everyone knowing that they'd ever been here.) ;)

SCSU74
07-21-2012, 17:16
I use to think this way but real life doesn't seem to bare this out.

There's no way of telling how many crimes have been prevented by the presence of a OC gun but I don't think I have ever heard of a OC person being shot at the beginning of a crime.

So now I tend to believe that a number of crimes were stopped before they got started, by the presence of a OC.

That really doesn't make sense. The list of things you can use deadly force for is very small. Criminals could care less about some guy walking around OC, most are smart enough to know you can't do anything with it anyway.


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

SCSU74
07-21-2012, 17:17
I support open carry, why? Well the cops open carry and I'm one of the "good guys" too.

Cops also receive extensive training in weapon retention and wear ballistic vests.


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

The_Gun_Guru
07-21-2012, 17:50
Why? I carry a g17 or 21 year round. Get a good belt and decent holster. It conceals with a t shirt and cargo shorts


LMAO:rofl:

Not in South FL!!!! It was 90+ today and so humid I could wring my shirt out after walking across the parking lot.

Those that don't deal with HIGH heat and humidity do NOT know what they are talking about!

I ABSOLUTELY HATE S. FL summers, but I was born here.....my parents live here and would kill me if we took their only grandkids away. Plus, my wife has a great job making killer bucks so here I stay....:dunno:


Open carry would be FREAKIN AWESOME and be so much more comfortable. I don't worry about gang bangers and other POS like that.....I see them long before they ever see me.


TGG

redrick
07-21-2012, 18:06
I am against it for 1 reason. If you scare enough people, you will soon see business posting signs on their doors ( NO Firearms Allowed ) and laws passed against carrying firearms in any manner.

CDW4ME
07-21-2012, 18:21
Open carry is like going around with your genitals exposed; we know you have it, no need to show it.

ak103k
07-21-2012, 19:41
Those that don't deal with HIGH heat and humidity do NOT know what they are talking about!
Apparently, some who do, dont either. ;)

Some of us actually work outdoors physically in 90+ heat and high humidity on a daily basis in the summer, and dont have any troubles carrying full sized guns concealed doing so. Ive been doing it most of my life now.

JerryVO
07-21-2012, 19:41
Anyone who owns a gun and is against open carry infuriates me. It is bad enough that we have to fight the anti-gun left to keep our 2A rights but when we have to fight our own kind it drives me nuts. Any abridgement of our firearm rights is a bad thing. Open carry may not be right for you but don't tell me how I should or should not carry. We are on the same side and should all be fighting for less gun restrictions not more.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2

SCSU74
07-21-2012, 20:48
LMAO:rofl:

Not in South FL!!!! It was 90+ today and so humid I could wring my shirt out after walking across the parking lot.

Those that don't deal with HIGH heat and humidity do NOT know what they are talking about!

I ABSOLUTELY HATE S. FL summers, but I was born here.....my parents live here and would kill me if we took their only grandkids away. Plus, my wife has a great job making killer bucks so here I stay....:dunno:


Open carry would be FREAKIN AWESOME and be so much more comfortable. I don't worry about gang bangers and other POS like that.....I see them long before they ever see me.


TGG

I live in north Texas it was 108 today...


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

SCSU74
07-21-2012, 20:50
Anyone who owns a gun and is against open carry infuriates me. It is bad enough that we have to fight the anti-gun left to keep our 2A rights but when we have to fight our own kind it drives me nuts. Any abridgement of our firearm rights is a bad thing. Open carry may not be right for you but don't tell me how I should or should not carry. We are on the same side and should all be fighting for less gun restrictions not more.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2

Don't know that people are against it, many just don't see the point. If that is the only legal way you can carry a gun then by all means. If you have the option to carry concealed why would you OC?


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

Diesel McBadass
07-21-2012, 20:58
Open carry i see like smoking.....i think its stupid but support the right to do it.

However, most open carriers piss me off. All the ones around here try to cause confrontations so they can yell at people about the constitution and crap or pace around in front of a gas station for an hour open carrying waiting for a cop to stop them so they can film it. None of them are going out open carrying to protect themselves and minding their business.

Chronos
07-21-2012, 21:31
I personally don't open carry around town, but of course being a civilized human being I don't support state violence against someone who is OCing while minding his own business.

Brazos
07-21-2012, 21:46
When they first started allowing CC there was a lot of controversy. Once it was enacted and time went by everyone forgot about it and went on to ***** about other things once they realized there weren't any daily shoot outs. OC would loose its shock value after people got used to it. Strangely I think in time it would make non gun people feel safer. For example if you didn't carry a gun but you saw a dozen different people walking around Wal-Mart with a pistol on their hip deep down you would know that you are well protected. Much better protected than dialing 911 on you iPhone. My wife doesn't carry yet (after 13 years of marriage she told me 2 days ago she wants to get her cc license,out of the blue) and I know I would feel better if people open carried during her daily travels.

Andrewsky
07-21-2012, 22:29
:upeyes: Having a legal or technical right to do something is one thing; actually doing it is another. There is no such event as social behavior without consequence. Everything a person does has relevance to those around him. If you live in the woods, fine; maybe you can get away with one form, or another, of inoffensive open carry. However, if you're a suburban or city dweller then civilian open carry is not fine. Most often, in fact, it's alarming and offensive. In today's world civilian open carry might even be interpreted as a warning that something bad is about to happen.

I'll be perfectly honest with you. No matter what the diehard gun forum bozos think, I don't like to see a man walking around in a crowd carrying an exposed handgun. Yes, I've studied all the usual trite rationale. Carrying a pistol should not be about, 'public education'; it should not be about demonstrating for everybody's constitutional rights. At best this sort of antisocial behavior is what I call, 'small dick advertising'; at worst I think of it as a genuine psychological precursor to, 'shopping mall terror'.

Strip away all of the usual social facades; and what do you have? Guns aren't about target shooting; they're not about collecting; nor are they genuinely recreational. Guns are for stopping life and killing things - That's it! Oliver Winchester, whose guns took countless thousands of lives, once said, 'A gun is a machine for throwing lead balls.' What he neglected to say is, 'Mostly at other people!'

If anyone thinks that I don't trust civilians with guns; well, you're right; I don't. One of the reasons, 'Why' I've spent so much time on numerous firing lines, and still lived as long as I have is because I, quite frankly, don't trust people with guns. 'Why', you might ask? Because other people have taught me not to.

A savvy gunman should never do anything to alarm the people he associates with. A clever gunman should not walk around advertising himself as either a, 'candy store', or a, 'badass neighborhood protector'. (It's been my experience that, in the real world, 'Ranger Rabbits' don't last long.) A knowing gunman is going to keep his pistol to himself until he actually has to use it; and, then, that weapon should appear suddenly and as a complete surprise. :wow:

(I will agree that occasionally, 'flashing' a gun can be a useful deterrent against crime. Possibly, if George Zimmerman had flashed that little Kel-Tec as Trayvon Martin approached him, the fight that followed might never have happened; and both men would have come and gone in this world without everyone knowing that they'd ever been here.) ;)

You take this way too seriously.

C-Dog
07-21-2012, 22:50
With what has happened in Co. I don't think open carry is going to win over the hearts and minds of to many average citizens.
Unless I'm in the woods I'm covered.

I know your not saying open carry is what caused the Colorado Batman maniac killing... I just have to say that open carry had NOTHING to do with what happened...

I say the batman shooting gives more people the reason to carry, and protect themselves and others from freaks like that.

I currently live in Iowa, where you must have a permit, but we can carry concealed or openly. If I'm going to the range, fishing, or other recreational activities I'll wear my Blackhawk owb holster. It's more comfortable. I'll walk into walmart or other places with it on too... no biggie... If anything, it'll deter a criminal thinking about committing a violent offense.

fnfalman
07-21-2012, 23:40
It's all about open carry.

If I were to have spent thousands of dollars on a pistol plus hundreds of dollars for a custom leather rig, you bet your ass I'd want to flaunt that combination.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-q1-10/JVC_DLA-RS35_blazingsaddles_gucci_large.jpg
http://blazingsaddlestribute.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/blazing-saddles-gucci-saddle-bag.jpg

RYNOCG201
07-21-2012, 23:59
Neither for or against open carry. I absolutely support the right, but would not open carry.

Same here. I don't feel the need for strangers to know that I am carrying.


RYNOC

MeanAction
07-22-2012, 01:30
You take this way too seriously.
I agree. He called open carry, "Anti-social Behavior."

RiverRatMatt
07-22-2012, 01:42
Generally do not prefer open carry unless I'm in the wilderness or close to. The general public knowing you have a gun will not do you any favors.

RiverRatMatt
07-22-2012, 01:55
It's all about open carry.

If I were to have spent thousands of dollars on a pistol plus hundreds of dollars for a custom leather rig, you bet your ass I'd want to flaunt that combination.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-q1-10/JVC_DLA-RS35_blazingsaddles_gucci_large.jpg
http://blazingsaddlestribute.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/blazing-saddles-gucci-saddle-bag.jpg

You should read the posts in this thread about d*ck waving then look in the mirror :/

NEOH212
07-22-2012, 03:20
I prefer Concealed Carry but support open carry.

People shouldn't have to fear to do what's legal. That's why I support open carry even thought I personally don't see it as the preferred mode of carry for myself most of the time.

Angry Fist
07-22-2012, 03:23
TLDR:

I may be the last thing your criminal ass ever sees. CYA.

Arc Angel
07-22-2012, 04:32
:upeyes: Yes, I take open carry very seriously. You know why? Because it screws around with MY SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND CONSTRUCTIVE USE OF FIREARMS; and, yes again, civilian open carry in an urban social setting IS ANTISOCIAL BEHAVIOR. If you guys don't realize this then all I can be is annoyed at you, and your antisocial behaviors. I'm, also, willing to venture that anyone who is sooo ..... socially obtuse in one regard has to be incredibly self-centered in other civic and personal regards, as well. (I'm right, huh!) ;)

You OC people need to wake up! Your negative behavior is hurting all of the rest of your fellow gunmen. Haven't you learned anything from horrific social events like: Luby's Cafeteria, Columbine High School, the Virginia Tech Massacre, and now (as you say) the, 'Batman Movie Massacre' - Haven't you! You're, 'swimming against the tide', boys; and your political enemies are going to use your aberrant social behaviors against ALL OF THE REST OF US!

The general public does NOT WANT to see your guns in populated restaurants or at a shopping mall. The general public does NOT see you guys as, 'heroes' or noble, 'Second Amendment Demonstrators'. The general public, and myself included, sees you as a potential, 'nut case with a gun'. Neither the general public nor I, myself, have any guarantee, whatsoever, that any civilian we encounter with a gun isn't on the way to the movies, or out looking for his estranged wife - Whatever!

It's 2012! You guys have your heads stuck so far up your butts that I doubt you're ever going to see daylight! Truthfully, I'm positive I would not want to go through life missing all of the: important lessons, civil courtesies, and social considerations going on all around me in the same way I see so many of my fellow gunmen presently doing. Successful living requires both intelligence and emotional balance. Quite frankly, I'm not seeing an overabundance of this on internet gun forums; AND, I think that's really too bad (for all of us). :freak:

CDW4ME
07-22-2012, 06:01
The general public does NOT WANT to see your guns in populated restaurants or at a shopping mall. The general public does NOT see you guys as, 'heroes' or noble, 'Second Amendment Demonstrators'. The general public, and myself included, sees you as a potential, 'nut case with a gun'. Neither the general public nor I, myself, have any guarantee, whatsoever, that any civilian we encounter with a gun isn't on the way to the movies, or out looking for his estranged wife - Whatever!


^ That right there.

I'm obviously pro gun, but if I see someone open carrying I wonder why heck they feel that is necessary since concealed carry is legal.

Don't give me the it's hot / uncomfortable excuse; it's been 104 degrees here (not counting the heat index) and I've had no trouble concealing a Glock 26 or 30SF with nothing more than a t-shirt & shorts.

The most likely reason for open carry when concealed carry is legal is "look at me" otherwise it would be covered. The reason why they want to be noticed? There is a reinforcer of some sort to the activity or it would not be done.

I think cops (I use to be a cop and always had pistol concealed if not in uniform) in polo shirts with their badge & gun showing look about equally as attention seeking. I see this more often than civilian open carry.

Why does anyone feel the need to walk around Wal-Mart showing everyone that they are armed? Has to be attention seeking of some sort, because you are going to get noticed.

Why do some males go around with their pants sagging and underwear showing? :whistling:
They want to make a "statement". :ack:
It's their "right". :chatter:
Makes them look "tough". :upeyes:
__________
__________
......
Attention. :devildance:

TheExplorer
07-22-2012, 06:15
I understand the point of expressing your rights, but personally I think it is asking for trouble. The average Joe knows nothing about gun laws and simply considers an OC'er a perceived threat. They call the cops, blah, blah, another youtube video of someone being stopped. In my city they would simply rob you for the gun, so there is absolutely no reason for me to ever do it anyway. To each is own.

Bruce M
07-22-2012, 06:24
True.

I doubt I'd OC when spending the day running around Ft. Worth or Dallas but I suspect I'd OC when going to like Wal Mart, Home Depot, or my bank in my small town.

If everyone thought along those lines openly carrying might be an easier sell. In your small town I would bet many or most people know you.

Brazos
07-22-2012, 06:39
Arc Angel I believe you are wrong about the public not wanting to see your guns. Sure initially there will be some shock and awe but once the newness wears off it will be a routine part of life. Here is where the public will come to realize OC is a good thing. If you have people in your vicinity carrying guns openly your safety will increase as a byproduct. For example if you are a woman worried about getting your purse stolen while out shopping you would be much less worried if you are in the area with a couple people using OC. Once people realize this it will become more popular. People will also feel and be safer when it comes to events like those that happened in CO last week. For example you don't own a gun, you are in a resturant with 300 people, you are worried about some crazy blocking the door and shooting everyone. If though while at the resturant you see 6-10 people with guns you would be less worried as you know the OC people would most likely deter a tragic shooting from happening but if it did your chances of survival just went way up.
I could come up with plenty more examples but once the public realizes there safety just went up when they are around someone using OC (who is has had background checks, training, and a license) it will become very popular. The non carrying public in a sense get their own private security force for free. I know I would feel much better about my wife and daughter's safety if they were in an area, store, resturant, etc with people using open carry. Cops can't be everywhere and 911, while nice, won't save you.

redrick
07-22-2012, 07:06
:upeyes: Yes, I take open carry very seriously. You know why? Because it screws around with MY SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND CONSTRUCTIVE USE OF FIREARMS;

You OC people need to wake up! Your negative behavior is hurting all of the rest of your fellow gunmen.

The general public does NOT WANT to see your guns in populated restaurants or at a shopping mall. The general public does NOT see you guys as, 'heroes' or noble, 'Second Amendment Demonstrators'.

. :freak:

I agree.

I also agree with the right to open carry and see nothing wrong with it in a rural setting.

While I am sitting here with the TV on, the news reporter is talking about gun control, AR type firearms and high capacity magazines. We don't need to draw attention to ourselves. The most important thing we can do is Vote when the time comes.

Diesel McBadass
07-22-2012, 07:20
Im sure a lot of people here dont care if someone open carries and minds their business, causing lost income, and someone pacing around in fromnt of a store for 2 hours may scare off some business, and when there carrying a camera to try and yell at some cops, they aint doing any favors for gun rights advocates.

Bruce M
07-22-2012, 07:34
Arc Angel I believe you are wrong about the public not wanting to see your guns. Sure initially there will be some shock and awe but once the newness wears off it will be a routine part of life. ....


Once the "shock and awe" wore off in California...

My guess is that for everyone that ends up in favor there is someone else who ends up fairly firmly entrenched against openly carrying. Heck even some people who own dozens of guns, carry daily, are life members of the NRA, etc. do not view it positively.

ChicagoZman
07-22-2012, 07:36
Neither for nor against. With a LTCH I can do either in Indiana but prefer to carry concealed.

The only time mine is open is when I'm working the counter of the LGS, when I'm on my way to/from the local gun range or when I'm in my house. At all other times it is concealed.

Bren
07-22-2012, 07:47
OK, responding to the OP, I am against open carry. I am in favor of it being legal - it's silly to charge somebody with a crime for carrying their .44 deer hunting or taking their jacket off for some reason or whatever. However, in normal daily life, I am against unnecessary open carry - given the choice between OC and going unarmed, I go unarmed.

OC gives you no self-defense advantage - even a guy from the ghetto with a 70 IQ will win against ANY OCer I've ever seen in an article or video - guess what, criminals don't stand in front of you and challenge you to draw and they sure won't listen to an argument about your rights. The gun is just a tool, it won't overcome the clear lack of preparedness and weakness I've seen from absolutely 100% of the video OC guys (Honestly, most of them come off as such lispy, emotional sissies in their video discussions with the police that I imagine even police and regular people are tempted to beat them). If you think the gun is magic that wins the fight, you'll be lucky to beat the average teenage gangsta armed with a soup spoon.

The only thing OC really accomplishes is to upset and alarm the little old ladies in the minivans - how important is that? Remember prohibition? If you are at all familiar with that history, you know exactly how dangerous alarming suburban housewives is, even if they have to change the constitution to get what they want.

When I see somebody OCing, my first reaction is to put some distance and cover between me and them. On the rare occasion I have seen it, I then look the person over and see if he's a problem. For a old-school biker in the Harley dealership with a S&W auto on his hip, I went about my business and gave it no further thought - that wasn't so unusual or out of character for him. For a regular suburban looking guy I saw with a Glock in Walmart? I gave him a little more distance and never got close - he's doing something unusual for that kind of guy and that is an alarm. If seeing people doing unusual things like that doesn't alarm you, as some of the OC advocates claim, then leave your gun at home. Your level of situational awareness is so low that no gun, open or concealed, is likely to do you any good, ever.







*On a side note, if it is your goal to videotape encounters with the police about ANYTHING (TSA searches, abusive border patrol agents, Open Carry, traffic checkpoints, to name a few I've seen here) where you school them on your rights, try to learn not to talk like a gay surfer from southern California. When you sound like that, only gay surfers from Southern California are going to take you serious and they don't even have guns. - also, try to learn some law first.

G23Gen4.40
07-22-2012, 08:02
I am all for a person's right to Open Carry.

That being said, I will only OC when out in the woods. I prefer to keep my gun concealed, I see no reason to bring attention to the fact I have a gun.

Berto
07-22-2012, 08:36
I won't oppose OC. It's a freedom, and if not used, it tends to go away.

I think the issue is a typical rural vs urban debate, and mostly people identify with urban sensibilities.....and I agree, I don't think it does 'us' any favors when the open presence of guns threatens people. Not everyone 'get's it' because not everyone is a Gun Person.
Go to Wyoming or even the Eastern part of WA and you'll see guns in holsters, esp during hunting season. It's no big deal. Walk into a suburban neighborhood in Seattle and people will wet their pants.

I don't OC, I think it's "tactically unsound"....but I won't oppose others doing it, even if it might bug me.

45caldan
07-22-2012, 08:43
against.

you will freak out the soccermom and her kids.

you will look like a tin-foil yahoo.

perception becomes reality.

Haven't read any posts after this one.
I agree 100%.
The "average person" (what ever that IS) would just view anyone with a gun openly displayed in public as a nut.

Bren
07-22-2012, 09:00
I won't oppose OC. It's a freedom, and if not used, it tends to go away.

That seems like an OCer mantra, but if you stop and think about it for a minute, it's pretty clearly false.

Freedoms go away when they are abused. Or, at the very least, when they upset people.

Think about it - for the state to make OC illegal, they have to write a law, get the majority of the legislature to vote for it and get the governor to sign it. They don't do that because nothing has happened to remind that that's even the law. They do it because somebody is POed about the law.

Want an example? California use to allow a limited sort of OC. They passed a law to ban it and made it clear that it was based on public alarm created by OCers (read some articles about the poolice testifying at the legislature and such). That didn't come up because nobody was OCing, it came up because of the wave of OCing and activism in recent years.

jordankaden
07-22-2012, 09:06
I am not against or for it... During hunting season I carry a G20 in a leg unit... I have almost walked into a local gas station with it on (just getting milk on the way home)... if open carry was legal I would not have any worries here in FL... However I prefer to CC, I am not the advertising type but I feel that it is a PERSONAL choice and should be left up to the individual......

Bruce M
07-22-2012, 09:14
When I see somebody OCing, my first reaction is to put some distance and cover between me and them. On the rare occasion I have seen it, I then look the person over and see if he's a problem. For a old-school biker in the Harley dealership with a S&W auto on his hip, I went about my business and gave it no further thought - that wasn't so unusual or out of character for him. For a regular suburban looking guy I saw with a Glock in Walmart? I gave him a little more distance and never got close - he's doing something unusual for that kind of guy and that is an alarm. If seeing people doing unusual things like that doesn't alarm you, as some of the OC advocates claim, then leave your gun at home. Your level of situational awareness is so low that no gun, open or concealed, is likely to do you any good, ever.







....

Being repetitive, where and when appropriate. My bet is that the old school biker might not be so likely to open carry in a suburban shopping mall and if he did I would probably be a bit more concerned than at the Harley Dealership. If the suburban guy was walking into a range or if he was walking into a diner on the edge of town in hunting garb, he would rate less concern from me.


More than a few people openly carried in some of the worst hit areas in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew. Mostly it didnt't raise any eyebrows despite some questionable legality. There were other concerns.

pat701
07-22-2012, 10:01
I was a Chicago Police Officer for 30 years. Open carry makes no sense to me. It could only invite a problem one way or another. Some things are not worth being asked to get involved in.

WarEagle32
07-22-2012, 10:45
I am reminded of the "where and when appropriate" comment.

True again Bruce

FireForged
07-22-2012, 11:20
What I have noticed on this subject is that many people draw a conclusion based on their "feel good" idea of carry.. then work backwards by scouring the internet and other research outlets, looking for anything that gives weight to their particular belief while discounting 100% of anything that goes against it.

It always boils down to a person (either side) having to hold on to the idea that the world is flat and no matter what evidence to the contrary.. they will defend the flat world idea simply becuase they must, in order to win their specific point.

I am not against either form of carry as long as its lawful. I choose to cc because it works best with my ideas, training and methods of practical self defense. In its most basic sense... CC is part of my system, and it work for me. Is CC the best form of carry? I will say that it is best for me, in my specific situation.

vikingsoftpaw
07-22-2012, 11:53
Generally against Open Carry. OC forcse you to call too much attention to yourself.

fnfalman
07-22-2012, 11:58
The general public didn't want to see blacks going to the same school as whites. The general publics didn't want to see gay pride parade or men kissing men/women kissing women in public.

Guess what? Blacks don't ride in the back of the bus any more. Gays don't have to hide themselves any more.

When are you and your cowardly type going to stand up and fight for your rights instead of skulking about in a closet?

:upeyes: Yes, I take open carry very seriously. You know why? Because it screws around with MY SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND CONSTRUCTIVE USE OF FIREARMS; and, yes again, civilian open carry in an urban social setting IS ANTISOCIAL BEHAVIOR. If you guys don't realize this then all I can be is annoyed at you, and your antisocial behaviors. I'm, also, willing to venture that anyone who is sooo ..... socially obtuse in one regard has to be incredibly self-centered in other civic and personal regards, as well. (I'm right, huh!) ;)

You OC people need to wake up! Your negative behavior is hurting all of the rest of your fellow gunmen. Haven't you learned anything from horrific social events like: Luby's Cafeteria, Columbine High School, the Virginia Tech Massacre, and now (as you say) the, 'Batman Movie Massacre' - Haven't you! You're, 'swimming against the tide', boys; and your political enemies are going to use your aberrant social behaviors against ALL OF THE REST OF US!

The general public does NOT WANT to see your guns in populated restaurants or at a shopping mall. The general public does NOT see you guys as, 'heroes' or noble, 'Second Amendment Demonstrators'. The general public, and myself included, sees you as a potential, 'nut case with a gun'. Neither the general public nor I, myself, have any guarantee, whatsoever, that any civilian we encounter with a gun isn't on the way to the movies, or out looking for his estranged wife - Whatever!

It's 2012! You guys have your heads stuck so far up your butts that I doubt you're ever going to see daylight! Truthfully, I'm positive I would not want to go through life missing all of the: important lessons, civil courtesies, and social considerations going on all around me in the same way I see so many of my fellow gunmen presently doing. Successful living requires both intelligence and emotional balance. Quite frankly, I'm not seeing an overabundance of this on internet gun forums; AND, I think that's really too bad (for all of us). :freak:

fnfalman
07-22-2012, 12:01
You should read the posts in this thread about d*ck waving then look in the mirror :/

My wang is plenty big and I like to wave it. If yours is too small to be proudly waved about then that's your biznatch.

fnfalman
07-22-2012, 12:04
Well...ain't you special?


:upeyes: Having a legal or technical right to do something is one thing; actually doing it is another. There is no such event as social behavior without consequence. Everything a person does has relevance to those around him. If you live in the woods, fine; maybe you can get away with one form, or another, of inoffensive open carry. However, if you're a suburban or city dweller then civilian open carry is not fine. Most often, in fact, it's alarming and offensive. In today's world civilian open carry might even be interpreted as a warning that something bad is about to happen.

I'll be perfectly honest with you. No matter what the diehard gun forum bozos think, I don't like to see a man walking around in a crowd carrying an exposed handgun. Yes, I've studied all the usual trite rationale. Carrying a pistol should not be about, 'public education'; it should not be about demonstrating for everybody's constitutional rights. At best this sort of antisocial behavior is what I call, 'small dick advertising'; at worst I think of it as a genuine psychological precursor to, 'shopping mall terror'.

Strip away all of the usual social facades; and what do you have? Guns aren't about target shooting; they're not about collecting; nor are they genuinely recreational. Guns are for stopping life and killing things - That's it! Oliver Winchester, whose guns took countless thousands of lives, once said, 'A gun is a machine for throwing lead balls.' What he neglected to say is, 'Mostly at other people!'

If anyone thinks that I don't trust civilians with guns; well, you're right; I don't. One of the reasons, 'Why' I've spent so much time on numerous firing lines, and still lived as long as I have is because I, quite frankly, don't trust people with guns. 'Why', you might ask? Because other people have taught me not to.

A savvy gunman should never do anything to alarm the people he associates with. A clever gunman should not walk around advertising himself as either a, 'candy store', or a, 'badass neighborhood protector'. (It's been my experience that, in the real world, 'Ranger Rabbits' don't last long.) A knowing gunman is going to keep his pistol to himself until he actually has to use it; and, then, that weapon should appear suddenly and as a complete surprise. :wow:

(I will agree that occasionally, 'flashing' a gun can be a useful deterrent against crime. Possibly, if George Zimmerman had flashed that little Kel-Tec as Trayvon Martin approached him, the fight that followed might never have happened; and both men would have come and gone in this world without everyone knowing that they'd ever been here.) ;)

fnfalman
07-22-2012, 12:06
*On a side note, if it is your goal to videotape encounters with the police about ANYTHING (TSA searches, abusive border patrol agents, Open Carry, traffic checkpoints, to name a few I've seen here) where you school them on your rights, try to learn not to talk like a gay surfer from southern California. When you sound like that, only gay surfers from Southern California are going to take you serious and they don't even have guns. - also, try to learn some law first.

At least gay surfers in California ain't afraid of standing up to The Man.

Learn some laws? Why? The only law Liberty understands is the point of the gun.

Three-Five-Seven
07-22-2012, 12:35
I have never seen someone open carrying in the grocery store or big box store that didn't look like a geek.

Open carrying says to the world, "Look at me, my asocial behavior, and what a loser I am"

Sorry, but that's how it comes across.

Now, if you're out on horseback, or backpacking, or tromping around outdoors, that's a different situation entirely.

Gun fetish people are ruining our second amendment rights. Either get involved in an actual shooting sport community or sell your guns and continue to play your video games.

Berto
07-22-2012, 15:07
That seems like an OCer mantra, but if you stop and think about it for a minute, it's pretty clearly false.

Freedoms go away when they are abused. Or, at the very least, when they upset people.

Think about it - for the state to make OC illegal, they have to write a law, get the majority of the legislature to vote for it and get the governor to sign it. They don't do that because nothing has happened to remind that that's even the law. They do it because somebody is POed about the law.

Want an example? California use to allow a limited sort of OC. They passed a law to ban it and made it clear that it was based on public alarm created by OCers (read some articles about the poolice testifying at the legislature and such). That didn't come up because nobody was OCing, it came up because of the wave of OCing and activism in recent years.

There's always going to be places where it's rejected, as there are places where it's accepted, thus my point about rural vs urban.
Were people in the rurals to stop OC'ing during hunting season or while outdoors- your example would prove valid and soon the exception would manifest there, too.
Since it's commonplace though, it doesn't.
It's 'exercised'.
So, I stand by what I said.
The whole idea around the anti-gun bedwetter movement is making armed citizenry unpopular, like smoking or obesity, but hate it or love it, numbers speak louder.

I'm not parroting the OC cause, just being realistic.

dudel
07-22-2012, 15:08
Open carry responsibly if you want. I prefer CC for myself.

CBennett
07-22-2012, 15:21
Unless im in the woods,fishing,hunting,hiking against. I dont want the attention from ANYONE else and i dont want nor do i NEED anyone else to know im carrying.

Now I do open carry when in the great outdoors(hiking,fishing,camping etc,etc)..but NEVER in public.

purrrfect 10
07-22-2012, 15:31
I do both don't mater

countrygun
07-22-2012, 15:41
Unless im in the woods,fishing,hunting,hiking against. I dont want the attention from ANYONE else and i dont want nor do i NEED anyone else to know im carrying.

Now I do open carry when in the great outdoors(hiking,fishing,camping etc,etc)..but NEVER in public.


That is exactly my personal choice as well.

Other folks may want to exercise the right if there is an option and I have to support that, in about the same way I support the kid a grocerstore's right to have loops in his earlobe I could lob a .45 round through and enough peircings to make him look like he did a "faceplant" in my tackle box.

The_Gun_Guru
07-22-2012, 16:21
The general public didn't want to see blacks going to the same school as whites. The general publics didn't want to see gay pride parade or men kissing men/women kissing women in public.

Guess what? Blacks don't ride in the back of the bus any more. Gays don't have to hide themselves any more.

When are you and your cowardly type going to stand up and fight for your rights instead of skulking about in a closet?

OMG!!!:upeyes:

You poor oppressed soul:crying: You need to stop playing the "race card"....it's getting old!!!


And has been for the past 40 years!!!!:wavey:

LET IT GO!!!!!:steamed:


TGG

fnfalman
07-22-2012, 19:12
It worked, didn't it?:upeyes:

You can sit and whine or you can take a page from their book.

Otherwise don't cry about how poor lil' gun owners getting oppressed by the public. Whoaaaaa.

OMG!!!:upeyes:

You poor oppressed soul:crying: You need to stop playing the "race card"....it's getting old!!!


And has been for the past 40 years!!!!:wavey:

LET IT GO!!!!!:steamed:


TGG

fnfalman
07-22-2012, 19:13
Gun fetish people are ruining our second amendment rights. Either get involved in an actual shooting sport community or sell your guns and continue to play your video games.

Since when the Second Amendment about "duck hunting" or "paper target shooting"?

RiverRatMatt
07-22-2012, 19:34
My wang is plenty big and I like to wave it. If yours is too small to be proudly waved about then that's your biznatch.

Neither is a fashion accessory. Keep them both in your pants when you're in public.

You strike me as one of the whiney guys in Cali that trolled cops with OC and got it banned.

Andrewsky
07-22-2012, 19:57
:upeyes: Yes, I take open carry very seriously. You know why? Because it screws around with MY SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND CONSTRUCTIVE USE OF FIREARMS; and, yes again, civilian open carry in an urban social setting IS ANTISOCIAL BEHAVIOR.

Besides being dead wrong, you're also going to give yourself a heart attack.

I've open carried several times near police officers and in so-called "urban social settings." There was never an issue and my motives are no one else's business.

RiverRatMatt
07-22-2012, 19:57
The guy I quoted brings this image to mind, just replace 'religion' with 'open carry'

http://filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/religion-is-like-a-*****.jpg?w=600&h=451

fnfalman
07-22-2012, 20:02
Neither is a fashion accessory. Keep them both in your pants when you're in public.

Why are you ashamed of owning and carrying guns? Why are you ashamed of owning and carrying a dick? Did not God create Adam in his own image? You think that Adam would run around in the Garden of Eden all covered up with leaves?

You strike me as one of the whiney guys in Cali that trolled cops with OC and got it banned.

I'm not the one that goes about whining about how open carry this and that.

Woaaa, woaaa, wooaaaaa, poor lil' concealed carry me.:rofl:

Arc Angel
07-23-2012, 05:30
Besides being dead wrong, you're also going to give yourself a heart attack.

I've open carried several times near police officers and in so-called "urban social settings." There was never an issue and my motives are no one else's business.

:upeyes: Ahh, ...... Andrewsky, first you forgot to say, 'In my opinion;' and, second, when it comes to me being, 'dead wrong', well, I earned an excellent living for more than 30 years by being consistently, 'dead right' - Even when other people, to their ultimate chagrin, thought that they were, 'dead right'; and I was, 'dead wrong'. No Internet BS. When you bet against me you're betting against one of the very best. I only hope that, for all of our sakes, you don't have to find this out the hard way. OK, buddy! ;)

One more thing: If you honestly believe that, 'your motives are no one else's business' - and I think that you actually do - then you're exactly that sort of antisocial bungler to whom I refer above; AND, I do not care whether or not your personal opinion happens to be in the majority. :freak:

ADDED: Brazos, while we shall continue to disagree, I appreciate your polite reply. Thank you. :)

MeanAction
07-23-2012, 08:00
I carry a G36 and often wear an high rise OWB with shirt untucked. You can see printing if you know to look or I'm moving a certain way but I still consider this to be concealed. I feel like I can draw the best from this set up. I use the MIC holster for deep concealment.

PhotoFeller
07-23-2012, 08:10
Unless im in the woods,fishing,hunting,hiking against. I dont want the attention from ANYONE else and i dont want nor do i NEED anyone else to know im carrying.

Now I do open carry when in the great outdoors(hiking,fishing,camping etc,etc)..but NEVER in public.

This is my position, exactly.

I'm strongly against current efforts to legalize open carry, particularly in the wake of the Colorado shooting tragedy. What we don't need is for state legislators to open up committee discussions about gun control legislation. We might not like the outcome.

Angry Fist
07-23-2012, 08:27
Damn... y'all got me in the mood to scare some old ladies and piss off some soccermoms. I need some nachos. Where'd I put that Uncle Mikes? :faint:

PhotoFeller
07-23-2012, 08:32
:upeyes: Yes, I take open carry very seriously. You know why? Because it screws around with MY SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND CONSTRUCTIVE USE OF FIREARMS; and, yes again, civilian open carry in an urban social setting IS ANTISOCIAL BEHAVIOR. If you guys don't realize this then all I can be is annoyed at you, and your antisocial behaviors. I'm, also, willing to venture that anyone who is sooo ..... socially obtuse in one regard has to be incredibly self-centered in other civic and personal regards, as well. (I'm right, huh!) ;)

You OC people need to wake up! Your negative behavior is hurting all of the rest of your fellow gunmen. Haven't you learned anything from horrific social events like: Luby's Cafeteria, Columbine High School, the Virginia Tech Massacre, and now (as you say) the, 'Batman Movie Massacre' - Haven't you! You're, 'swimming against the tide', boys; and your political enemies are going to use your aberrant social behaviors against ALL OF THE REST OF US!

The general public does NOT WANT to see your guns in populated restaurants or at a shopping mall. The general public does NOT see you guys as, 'heroes' or noble, 'Second Amendment Demonstrators'. The general public, and myself included, sees you as a potential, 'nut case with a gun'. Neither the general public nor I, myself, have any guarantee, whatsoever, that any civilian we encounter with a gun isn't on the way to the movies, or out looking for his estranged wife - Whatever!

It's 2012! You guys have your heads stuck so far up your butts that I doubt you're ever going to see daylight! Truthfully, I'm positive I would not want to go through life missing all of the: important lessons, civil courtesies, and social considerations going on all around me in the same way I see so many of my fellow gunmen presently doing. Successful living requires both intelligence and emotional balance. Quite frankly, I'm not seeing an overabundance of this on internet gun forums; AND, I think that's really too bad (for all of us). :freak:

Pretty strong words, and I generally agree with all of them. This position isn't popular on gun forums because of the sensitivity to 2nd Amendment rights. However, reality, not political naiveté, should prevail.

Anyone who thinks legislatures will pass open carry laws in today's environment is out of touch with public sentiment almost everywhere. If the doors are opened to consider OC, we may find ourselves fighting to keep the concealed carry laws we already enjoy.

fnfalman
07-23-2012, 09:20
Want an example? California use to allow a limited sort of OC. They passed a law to ban it and made it clear that it was based on public alarm created by OCers (read some articles about the poolice testifying at the legislature and such). That didn't come up because nobody was OCing, it came up because of the wave of OCing and activism in recent years.

The OC law was worthless. So Californians didn't really lose squat. However, they made a stand. The battle may be lost but the war ain't over yet.

That's the problem with your kind of people. You want to appease, you want to "let it lay low" lest people get upset.

Guess what? Upsetting people now and then is a good thing. If you're too afraid of fighting for your rights then you deserve what's coming to you.

At least we Californians can stand proud and say that we fought like hell. Can't say the same about you and the rest of the nay sayers.

fnfalman
07-23-2012, 09:21
Anyone who thinks legislatures will pass open carry laws in today's environment is out of touch with public sentiment almost everywhere. If the doors are opened to consider OC, we may find ourselves fighting to keep the concealed carry laws we already enjoy.

So...let's just let it lay low and hope that the anti-gunners won't go after CCW?

You don't win the war by being defensive.

dnuggett
07-23-2012, 09:41
Anyone who thinks legislatures will pass open carry laws in today's environment is out of touch with public sentiment almost everywhere.

Oklahoma just passed OC. Just passed it. In today's environment.

dnuggett
07-23-2012, 09:51
If you're too afraid of fighting for your rights then you deserve what's coming to you.


Rarely does this happen, but I agree.

PhotoFeller
07-23-2012, 10:34
Oklahoma just passed OC. Just passed it. In today's environment.

Thats why I said "...almost everywhere".

Look around the world where governments have stripped away gun rights to see clearly what can happen: England, Australia, Canada and others HAVE LOST THE WAR!

The quest for open carry is harmful to the cause of gun ownership and concealed carry, in my opinion. I say let's be thankful for what we've got and be prepared to fight like hell to keep concealed carry and ownership rights.

dnuggett
07-23-2012, 10:51
I say let's be thankful for what we've got and be prepared to fight like hell to keep concealed carry and ownership rights.

I am not "thankful" that I have a right. That right was given to me not by the government but merely by my existence. To whom would you have me thank for this right?

We should fight like hell on each and every attack on our rights. Concede nothing. Our rights are not the governments to take, they can only be stolen. I have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to the theft of my rights. You should too.

PhotoFeller
07-23-2012, 11:19
I am not "thankful" that I have a right. That right was given to me not by the government but merely by my existence. To whom would you have me thank for this right?

We should fight like hell on each and every attack on our rights. Concede nothing. Our rights are not the governments to take, they can only be stolen. I have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to the theft of my rights. You should too.

I respect your opinion. Just don't crap in my sandbox trying to get something we don't need.

BuckeyePPC
07-23-2012, 11:38
I use to think this way but real life doesn't seem to bare this out.

There's no way of telling how many crimes have been prevented by the presence of a OC gun but I don't think I have ever heard of a OC person being shot at the beginning of a crime.

So now I tend to believe that a number of crimes were stopped before they got started, by the presence of a OC.

I never understood the part of OC person being the first targetted. I can't imagine bad guys going into WalMart or Safeway and waste time looking for the OC guy before doing their bad deed.

I guess we have the population trained here in southern AZ to not freak out by the sight of a weapon. I open carry a lot because it's comfortable to slip a paddle holster on when going out. Around here, so many people OC that it's not a big deal.

dnuggett
07-23-2012, 11:43
I respect your opinion. Just don't crap in my sandbox trying to get something we don't need.

I don't OC, wouldn't even if I could. I'm not a proponent of being an idiot about things (flaunting my piece on my hip and recording how much smarter I am than my local law enforcement) but I don't sit on my hands about anything when it comes to gun rights. Even when I know it is not an action I am likely to take (like OC) I will still support it. The key is to know how to support a cause... how to win. At times it requires a show of numbers, at other times it requires behind the scenes and sometimes the fight even requires gamesmanship. There are people out there who are very good at all of these things... the key is to know when to deploy what tactics and where and how to be organized. But the key message I want to get across to you is this- you don't pick and choose battles when it comes to defending your civil liberties. You fight each and every battle that comes your way.

PhotoFeller
07-23-2012, 15:50
I don't OC, wouldn't even if I could. I'm not a proponent of being an idiot about things (flaunting my piece on my hip and recording how much smarter I am than my local law enforcement) but I don't sit on my hands about anything when it comes to gun rights. Even when I know it is not an action I am likely to take (like OC) I will still support it. The key is to know how to support a cause... how to win. At times it requires a show of numbers, at other times it requires behind the scenes and sometimes the fight even requires gamesmanship. There are people out there who are very good at all of these things... the key is to know when to deploy what tactics and where and how to be organized. But the key message I want to get across to you is this- you don't pick and choose battles when it comes to defending your civil liberties. You fight each and every battle that comes your way.

Thanks for stating your position in a constructive way. I especially appreciate your tone given my sophomoric "don't crap in my sandbox" comment.

My point of view is this: there is no real battle except the one being waged by open carry advocates. In my opinion, most gun owners are quite satisfied with laws providing for concealed carry.

Try to take away the ability we have to own firearms and CC and a real war will begin. It will be bold, well funded, waged by millions of citizens who will demonstrate the will and political might to prevail.

Those who insist on picking around the edges of firearm laws by pushing for OC are playing into the hands of liberals who would love to reopen the gun control debate.

ak103k
07-23-2012, 16:10
Since "rights" seem so important, why arent we addressing why we need "any" type of permit or anyones permission in the first place, concealed or otherwise?

faawrenchbndr
07-23-2012, 16:51
Against.

Tactical error & a public relations nightmare!

mac66
07-23-2012, 18:57
My thoughts on open carry...

"Don't do it, it will just make it worse for the rest of us. Don't antagonize the police. It does more harm than good."

Where have we heard that rhetoric before? Perhaps back in the 1960s when blacks were trying to exercise their civil rights.

If those blacks hadn't stood up, called attention to themselves, hadn't had the police beat them, arrest them, turn fire hoses and dogs on them, they would still be second class citizens.

Because of their color they couldn't go into establishments that had certain kinds of signs posted. Does that sound familiar to any of you? Do you ever go to a place that is a gun free zone?

Open carry is not a gun rights issue or a tactical issue. It is a civil rights issue. It takes people to stand up for their constitutional rights in order for them to use them.

If more people opened carry, society would get used to it and realize what constitutional rights really are. People would realize their bias and prejudice and you wouldn't be discriminated against anymore. Then you could carry what you want, where you want, however you want and it wouldn't be an issue anymore.

Andrewsky
07-23-2012, 19:15
Thats why I said "...almost everywhere".

Look around the world where governments have stripped away gun rights to see clearly what can happen: England, Australia, Canada and others HAVE LOST THE WAR!

The quest for open carry is harmful to the cause of gun ownership and concealed carry, in my opinion. I say let's be thankful for what we've got and be prepared to fight like hell to keep concealed carry and ownership rights.

So why are we on the defensive? Gun owners in the United States have the momentum! The 1994-2004 AWB was not renewed, Heller went in our favor, the Congress is overwhelmingly pro-gun, concealed carry laws have been improving dramatically in the last couple decades, autoloading rifles are becoming very popular, and most states have few open carry restrictions.

I'm not saying feel free to walk through the local mall with a tactical vest and a rifle. I don't see anything wrong with carrying a K-frame in a leather belt holster while I ride my bike at night either!