180Gr FMJ Load Used iN Glock 20 with 6.61 LWD Barrel [Archive] - Glock Talk

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PerfectShooter
07-21-2012, 22:46
Today I got out and shot my glock 20. I have the lwd 6.61threaded barrel and a 24lb recoil spring. My Load data goes as follows 180gr Berrys Fmj, with 11.8gr of bluedot powder, CCI 350 Primers, and star line brass. OAL 1.255 chrono results was as follow 1397 as my highest and 1373 as my lowest out of 10shots. Then also did a water jug test and blew through 4jugs will try six next time bullet went to deep in ground to retrieve. Also i used same exact powder and load just switched primers to WLP and got 50-75 fps less i am going to increase the load with the WLP and post the results later this week. Dont feel i have enough play room using the CCI 350 Primers. But i have a little of wiggle room using the WLP. The Recoil is less using the WLP Primers

WeeWilly
07-22-2012, 11:11
Today I got out and shot my glock 20 i have the lwd 6.61threaded barrel and a 24lb recoil spring. My Load data goes as follows 180gr Berrys Fmj 11.8gr of bluedot CCI 350 Primers star line brass and OAL 1.255 chrono results 1397 as my highest and 1373 as my lowest out of 10shots then also did a water jug test and blew through 4jugs will try six next time bullet went to deep in ground to retrieve.

I was unaware Berry's was offering FMJ's now, might have to check that out.

11.8grs is a mighty stout load. How did the brass look?

gofastman
07-22-2012, 11:21
There is a button to the right of the "M" on your keyboard, you should learn to use it.

PerfectShooter
07-22-2012, 12:41
I was unaware Berry's was offering FMJ's now, might have to check that out.

11.8grs is a mighty stout load. How did the brass look?
There were no bulges or smiles on the brass, the primers were not flattend either.

Yondering
07-22-2012, 14:29
PerfectShooter, you'll need a lot more than 6 water jugs to recover that bullet. Try twice that many, maybe.

Are you getting any kind of accuracy with that load? My experience has been those bullets are no good for accuracy above 1000-1100 fps.

PerfectShooter
07-22-2012, 14:50
PerfectShooter, you'll need a lot more than 6 water jugs to recover that bullet. Try twice that many, maybe.

Are you getting any kind of accuracy with that load? My experience has been those bullets are no good for accuracy above 1000-1100 fps.
I ran out of time did not get to shoot paper, just the jugs and through the chrono. Bad storm hit area before i could shoot on paper. I will shoot for accuracy by the end of the week and post results.

Taterhead
07-22-2012, 15:48
Thanks for sharing your info PerfectShooter. Those are some pretty stout velocities!

I want to point out an important correction to your thread title. Berry's are NOT FMJs, and should not be treated as such. They are plated bullets that consist of soft lead bullet with a thin plating of copper. They are sort of in-between a cast lead and fmj bullet. Plated bullets are designed for lower cost plinking and shooting games. They are not constructed for pushing velocities.

Pressures will generally be higher with plated bullets, and Berry's recommends loading to no more than the mid ranges of recipe data for full metal jackets or excessive pressures might result. Alliant's load data ranges from 10.0 grains to 11.0 with a standard primer. That would translate to a max for a Berry's plated bullet of 10.5 grains. 11.8 grains is 1.3 grains beyond that. Add to that a magnum primer, and you are most likely dealing with a pretty hefty pressure situation. This is not the bullet type to keep pushing beyond where you are now, in my opinion. I don't think there is much wiggle room. 11.8 grains is already 8 tenths beyond any book data you'll find for FMJs -- and, again, Berry's are not FMJs.

As Yondering mentioned, I would doubt that groups are satisfactory. Having shot a few thousand of them myself, I have not seen any sort of dependable accuracy beyond 1050 fps. Pushing these bullets can also result in pretty bad barrel leading.

PerfectShooter
07-22-2012, 15:57
Thanks for sharing your info PerfectShooter. Those are some pretty stout velocities!

I want to point out an important correction to your thread title. Berry's are NOT FMJs, and should not be treated as such. They are plated bullets that consist of soft lead bullet with a thin plating of copper. They are sort of in-between a cast lead and fmj bullet. Plated bullets are designed for lower cost plinking and shooting games. They are not constructed for pushing velocities.

Pressures will generally be higher with plated bullets, and Berry's recommends loading to no more than the mid ranges of recipe data for full metal jackets or excessive pressures might result. Alliant's load data ranges from 10.0 grains to 11.0 with a standard primer. That would translate to a max for a Berry's plated bullet of 10.5 grains. 11.8 grains is 1.3 grains beyond that. Add to that a magnum primer, and you are most likely dealing with a pretty hefty pressure situation. This is not the bullet type to keep pushing beyond where you are now, in my opinion. I don't think there is much wiggle room. 11.8 grains is already 8 tenths beyond any book data you'll find for FMJs -- and, again, Berry's are not FMJs.

As Yondering mentioned, I would doubt that groups are satisfactory. Having shot a few thousand of them myself, I have not seen any sort of dependable accuracy beyond 1050 fps. Pushing these bullets can also result in pretty bad barrel leading.

Thanks For the info. I will be changing bullets to speer TMJ and see what i get. Also i did not see any significant forms of pressure (i.e no smiled brass or flattend primers) but i would not shoot this load out of a stock glock barrel because of there lack of case support.

PerfectShooter
07-23-2012, 15:16
I noticed that the WLP does not have enough Blast to ignite all the powder in 11.8 gr or 11gr of bluedot so i am going to load 9gr and see if it has enough to ignite all the 9grs. And i will post Results by end of the week.

CanyonMan
07-23-2012, 15:41
Thanks for sharing your info PerfectShooter. Those are some pretty stout velocities!

I want to point out an important correction to your thread title. Berry's are NOT FMJs, and should not be treated as such. They are plated bullets that consist of soft lead bullet with a thin plating of copper. They are sort of in-between a cast lead and fmj bullet. Plated bullets are designed for lower cost plinking and shooting games. They are not constructed for pushing velocities.

Pressures will generally be higher with plated bullets, and Berry's recommends loading to no more than the mid ranges of recipe data for full metal jackets or excessive pressures might result. Alliant's load data ranges from 10.0 grains to 11.0 with a standard primer. That would translate to a max for a Berry's plated bullet of 10.5 grains. 11.8 grains is 1.3 grains beyond that. Add to that a magnum primer, and you are most likely dealing with a pretty hefty pressure situation. This is not the bullet type to keep pushing beyond where you are now, in my opinion. I don't think there is much wiggle room. 11.8 grains is already 8 tenths beyond any book data you'll find for FMJs -- and, again, Berry's are not FMJs.

As Yondering mentioned, I would doubt that groups are satisfactory. Having shot a few thousand of them myself, I have not seen any sort of dependable accuracy beyond 1050 fps. Pushing these bullets can also result in pretty bad barrel leading.



Hey amigo... AS Tater and others here have mentioned, and are right about the berry's, and everything else...

I tried the plated stuff waaaaay back when I first started with the 10mm, and they are just not for the loads your using, which are the same loads and powder I am and have been using as well. Standard primer CCI #300 only n these, is a wise idea.

I do reach out a dash more than you on the loads.

But PLEASE DO NOT try this yourself. What works for me may NOT work for you *****

If you don't go to HC bullets, the Speer Jacketed is a good bullet you have choosen. It will 'take more' than will the Berry's plated.

Anything you are wanting to "push" in the 10mm, or "other caliber" for that matter, and your not using hard cast.... Good rule is go to Copper jacketed bullet. ;)


Good loads, and they do pack a good punch down range with the right bullets. I mostly use all HC stuff in the 21 BHN,and sometimes 18 BHN (Hardness) range. I have over the years had extremley good accuracy with these BD loads and those Hard Cast AND 180/200gr XTP's as well. The Speer should work well for ya.

I know BD has a fireball, but I do not hunt at night, and even when shooting varmints, (if that is hunting, plus I 'only' do it when needed here) I have never fell on the ground blind ! haha. Let us know how those Speer work out for ya pard..

Keep up the good work ! ;)








CM

Taterhead
07-23-2012, 22:26
I noticed that the WLP does not have enough Blast to ignite all the powder in 11.8 gr or 11gr of bluedot so i am going to load 9gr and see if it has enough to ignite all the 9grs. And i will post Results by end of the week.

Interesting. I am curious about what you are seeing that indicates an insufficient burn. Are you getting unburned flakes? Inconsistent velocities?

I have never had an issue with ignition for Blue Dot except with downloaded charges.

Just curious, more than anything.

Yondering
07-24-2012, 00:06
I noticed that the WLP does not have enough Blast to ignite all the powder in 11.8 gr or 11gr of bluedot so i am going to load 9gr and see if it has enough to ignite all the 9grs. And i will post Results by end of the week.

I'd like to know why you think this too. Never had this issue myself, WLP's work just fine with Blue Dot. You know some powders leave granules of ash in the bore, and this is normal, right?

WeeWilly
07-24-2012, 09:12
I use mainly WLP with my Blue Dot loads and have never had any issues with combustion. For sure, at 11grs no problems whatsoever.

This may be a total misdirection, but a guy on another forum seemed to be having some issues with poor combustion using Winchester primers. Not sure if he found the root cause. I had postd to him that I had seen some poor workmanship issues lately with WLP's but had written it off as maybe a new guy learning the ropes on the production floor. My problems have been confined to mechanical issues like out of spec cups, cracked cups on hot loads, etc.

I sure hope it is not a issue with WLP's, because I have a boat load of the little devils.

Yondering
07-24-2012, 19:50
Willy, You should contact winchester about those primers. I had 2 bricks of WLP's that were made during the last ammo shortage, that were cracking cups with hot loads. Winchester replaced them for me.

CanyonMan
07-24-2012, 20:35
Willy, You should contact winchester about those primers. I had 2 bricks of WLP's that were made during the last ammo shortage, that were cracking cups with hot loads. Winchester replaced them for me.


Hey bud, do you have any lot #'s for those ? Or an approx time / year something when ya got those ?

I got some been sittin here for about three years... Was that about the time you got yours ?


I may have to call WW myself. 99% of my primers are all CCI, but I do have some of the WW's as well.


Appreciate it man,




Stay safe !






CM

WeeWilly
07-24-2012, 21:33
I will go down and see if I can figure out which batches I was having my most recent problems, at least maybe isolate it to a year I bought them. I have a lot of sleeves down there (5K each) and have not been very organized about any kind of FIFO style inventory management. The specific ones I was having problems with are all loaded up and the sleeves, boxes and trays are all thrown away, so no definitive answer that way, I wish I were more organized, but if I had to guess the problem ones were manufactured in the last few years.

I am pretty sure the guy that was reporting the semi-squib results was using fairly new primers as he was a noob loader. I have not seen this kind of a result since I quit trying to download H110 in my .44RM's... ;)

Yondering
07-24-2012, 22:18
Hey bud, do you have any lot #'s for those ? Or an approx time / year something when ya got those ?

I got some been sittin here for about three years... Was that about the time you got yours ?




Yeah, about 3 years ago is when I got these; 2009-ish. The lot number was CBL327G. They seemed to work fine for 45 ACP, but about 1/3 of them would crack the cup in 10mm loads, causing some gas cutting on the breech face of my slide.

Winchester was real good about it; they had me send in a handful of them loaded in empty brass for their testing. They sent a delivery guy to my house with the shipping label and everything, all I had to do was put them in a box. A couple weeks later they called and refunded me the cost of them.

CanyonMan
07-25-2012, 06:52
Yeah, about 3 years ago is when I got these; 2009-ish. The lot number was CBL327G. They seemed to work fine for 45 ACP, but about 1/3 of them would crack the cup in 10mm loads, causing some gas cutting on the breech face of my slide.

Winchester was real good about it; they had me send in a handful of them loaded in empty brass for their testing. They sent a delivery guy to my house with the shipping label and everything, all I had to do was put them in a box. A couple weeks later they called and refunded me the cost of them.





Hey thanks amigo... That's about the time I got mine a few years back If I remember correctly. I'll check them out .


Appreciate it.



Stay safe.






CM

PerfectShooter
07-27-2012, 10:31
Interesting. I am curious about what you are seeing that indicates an insufficient burn. Are you getting unburned flakes? Inconsistent velocities?

I have never had an issue with ignition for Blue Dot except with downloaded charges.

Just curious, more than anything.

When cleaning out my barrel i could see the blue specs and other specs of propellant in there original form.

Yondering
07-27-2012, 17:01
When cleaning out my barrel i could see the blue specs and other specs of propellant in there original form.

That sounds like either you have bad primers, or lack of case neck tension, or something. That does not happen with good loads using standard primers and Blue Dot in the 10mm. Switching to magnum primers would be a band-aid fix; something else is wrong.

gofastman
07-27-2012, 18:53
I noticed that the WLP does not have enough Blast to ignite all the powder in 11.8 gr or 11gr of bluedot so i am going to load 9gr and see if it has enough to ignite all the 9grs. And i will post Results by end of the week.

That sounds like either you have bad primers, or lack of case neck tension, or something. That does not happen with good loads using standard primers and Blue Dot in the 10mm. Switching to magnum primers would be a band-aid fix; something else is wrong.

I agree, WLP's are plenty hot (at least they should be)
they have no problem setting off 26grs of W296 in my fo-fo

Yondering
07-27-2012, 19:52
Same for me in the 45 Colt (ruger loads) with H110. Anything that will light off H110/296 reliably will work fine with Blue Dot.

I gotta say, I have never seen unburned powder after firing, except from a squib load or contaminated powder. Ash in the same shape as powder granules is a different story. Even a very weak primer will still cause all the powder to burn. Maybe PerfectShooter's powder is bad?

PerfectShooter
07-27-2012, 22:39
Today went to the range. My Loads was as follows. Warning Do Not Repeat these loads with stock Glock Barrel.

Gun:Glock 20 With LWD 6.61" Barrel and Wolf 24lb Recoil Spring
Bullet: Speer 180Tmj
Brass: Starline
Powder: Bluedot Charge: 12.0gr
Primer: CCI 350
COL: 1.260

Chrono Results: 10 shots
Hi: 1404fps/792ft-lbs
Lo: 1320/700ft-lbs
Avg: 1355/737/ft-lbs
ES: 84
SD: 24

Brass Show no signs of high Pressure Primer Showed Very light signs of pressure. This was my most accurate hot load. This Will be my hunting load.

Here is the results of the other hot load i used. Warning Do Not Repeat these loads with stock Glock Barrel.

Gun:Glock 20 With LWD 6.61" Barrel and Wolf 24lb Recoil Spring
Bullet: Speer 180Tmj
Brass: Starline
Powder: Bluedot Charge: 11.8gr
Primer: CCI 350
COL: 1.260

Chrono Results: 13 Shots
Hi: 1365fps/748ft-lbs
Lo: 1308/687ft-lbs
Avg: 1331/711ft-lbs
ES: 57
SD: 17

Brass Show no signs of high Pressure Primer Showed Very light signs of pressure. This load was fairly accurate as well.

The Pictuers of the brass are from the load with 12.0gr Bluedot Powder.

I also worked up a good target load for my three gun matches. I used berrys 180gr RN, it goes as follows and i did shoot this one out of my Stock Glock Barrel still used the 24lb recoil spring felt like i was shooting a 380 i was very impressed. It Shot Pretty Accurate i would give it 7/10 for accuracy.

Gun:Glock 20 With stock 4.6" Barrel and Wolf 24lb Recoil Spring
Bullet: 180gr Berrys RN
Brass: Starline
Powder: Bluedot Charge: 9.5gr
Primer: CCI 350
COL: 1.260

Chrono Results Out of 10 Shots
Hi: 1000fps
Lo: 979Fps

Even though this was a light load i did get the glock bulge on the case, primers did not show any signs of pressure. Also 10.0gr worked ok too i just like the lower recoil on the 9.5gr do to having too accurately rappid fire in matches.

I will be working up a load for the hornady 200gr FMJ for the Glock 20. And a A load for the 175gr Winchester silvertip for stock Glock 29 will post results soon.

PerfectShooter
07-28-2012, 09:47
Same for me in the 45 Colt (ruger loads) with H110. Anything that will light off H110/296 reliably will work fine with Blue Dot.

I gotta say, I have never seen unburned powder after firing, except from a squib load or contaminated powder. Ash in the same shape as powder granules is a different story. Even a very weak primer will still cause all the powder to burn. Maybe PerfectShooter's powder is bad?

Turned out to be a bad batch of WLP primers. Did not have any problems when i tested the new box.

Yondering
07-28-2012, 10:56
Cool, glad you got it figured out!

PerfectShooter
08-26-2012, 20:08
PerfectShooter, you'll need a lot more than 6 water jugs to recover that bullet. Try twice that many, maybe.

Are you getting any kind of accuracy with that load? My experience has been those bullets are no good for accuracy above 1000-1100 fps.

It took 13 water jugs to stop it. It penatrated 12 and stopped before it enter the third and rigashaded to the left 3ft. Attached are the pics of the retrieved bullet. Will be putting link to youtube video up shortly.

OhioGlockMan
08-28-2012, 07:47
Wow 13 Jugs, and it appears the bullet did not deform at all from those pics. Was that the berrys or speer TMJ 180 grainer?

PerfectShooter
08-28-2012, 14:27
Wow 13 Jugs, and it appears the bullet did not deform at all from those pics. Was that the berrys or speer TMJ 180 grainer?

It was the speer 180gr tmj. Nope bullet did not deform at all.

OhioGlockMan
08-29-2012, 12:43
PerfectShooter- FYI I have used the Rainier plated bullets at the magnum velocities you were pushing the Berrys bullets and they are always totally fine. I launch the 180's at 1300 and 155's 1500 fps. I have no experience with the berrys brand, but my experience with the Rainiers plus Ive had frequent talks with the tech guy at Rainier, and he assured me it was totally fine to push Rainiers to mag velocities. Also in my experience the plated bullets deform the way lead ones do, they won't go thru jugs and be totally intact the way the FMJ was in your pics above. I'm just thinkin you could save money with the Rainiers, thats all

PerfectShooter
08-29-2012, 17:20
PerfectShooter- FYI I have used the Rainier plated bullets at the magnum velocities you were pushing the Berrys bullets and they are always totally fine. I launch the 180's at 1300 and 155's 1500 fps. I have no experience with the berrys brand, but my experience with the Rainiers plus Ive had frequent talks with the tech guy at Rainier, and he assured me it was totally fine to push Rainiers to mag velocities. Also in my experience the plated bullets deform the way lead ones do, they won't go thru jugs and be totally intact the way the FMJ was in your pics above. I'm just thinkin you could save money with the Rainiers, thats all

I will be using the Speer TMJ For my back up weapon during Black Bear Hunts. I will try the Rainer bullets cause i shoot a lot of competition matches.

Thanks for the info.

OhioGlockMan
08-30-2012, 13:57
PerfectShooter-

Just an FYI, in my experience and what the tech guys at Rainier have told me, use very very very very little crimp on their plated bullets, I only use enough to get rid of the flare so the cartridge will chamber, it usually comes out to a quarter turn or less with the Lee Factory crimp die, whereas with jacketed or cast bullets I do a full turn on the Lee crimp die. Of course mabey we don't need to be crimping the cast and jacketed that much, I dunno, the plated ones with virtually zero crimp shoot totally fine. My favorite loads with them are 8.5 gr power pistol with the 180, clocks 1300, and 9.5 power pistol with the 155, clocks 1500. Also a nice light plinking load is the 155 with 7.3 grains unique, clocks high 1200's for me. I always am using a 6 inch barrel by the way

Taterhead
08-30-2012, 19:57
PerfectShooter-

Just an FYI, in my experience and what the tech guys at Rainier have told me, use very very very very little crimp on their plated bullets, I only use enough to get rid of the flare so the cartridge will chamber, it usually comes out to a quarter turn or less with the Lee Factory crimp die, whereas with jacketed or cast bullets I do a full turn on the Lee crimp die. Of course mabey we don't need to be crimping the cast and jacketed that much, I dunno, the plated ones with virtually zero crimp shoot totally fine. My favorite loads with them are 8.5 gr power pistol with the 180, clocks 1300, and 9.5 power pistol with the 155, clocks 1500. Also a nice light plinking load is the 155 with 7.3 grains unique, clocks high 1200's for me. I always am using a 6 inch barrel by the way

Extremely good advice for soft plated bullets. 10mm does not need any more crimp than to iron out the bell. Any farther is counterproductive.

Even better, if going for lower cost bullets, PowerBonds are less expensive and don't need the fussiness that is required by Berry's and Rainier.