IGB Glock 20 10mm to .40 S&W conversion barrel? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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northern glock guy
07-22-2012, 01:38
Hi folks : Being stuck in Canada conversion barrels are a pain to aquire. A retailer here has a few IGB glock 20 10 to 40 available at the low low cost of over 300.00. So before shelling out the bucks I was wondering what the experience has been for the forum members with these barrels? The only reason I'm thinking this way is availability and lead reload shooting. Thanks in advance. :whistling:

Yondering
07-22-2012, 14:33
I have no experience with the IGB barrels, but if your only reasons for buying one are to shoot 40 S&W, and lead bullets, just use your stock barrel. You'll probably find the stock barrel works fine with cast bullets, and shooting 40 in a 10mm Glock is not a problem. (Only in a Glock, not a good idea in other guns.)

WeeWilly
07-22-2012, 16:18
I have no experience with the IGB barrels, but if your only reasons for buying one are to shoot 40 S&W, and lead bullets, just use your stock barrel. You'll probably find the stock barrel works fine with cast bullets, and shooting 40 in a 10mm Glock is not a problem. (Only in a Glock, not a good idea in other guns.)

I have to agree on all counts. I have a KKM 10-40 conversion barrel. I get better accuracy with my 40 loads out of my stock G20SF barrel, than the 10-40 conversion barrel.

On top of that, I get more reliable feed with lead out of all my stock Glock barrels than any of my KKM barrels. Leading is always about the same, very light after a few hundred rounds, which I easily clean out with copper Chore Boy wrapped around a bore brush, right after I get home.

Any Cal.
07-22-2012, 18:45
If you don't have an extended striker, I would give it a go with the stock barrel. I have hundreds of .40 through a 10mm barrel, with no issues at all.

robert91922
07-27-2012, 06:18
I have IGB barrel for my Glock 20. Not a .40 conversion, just 10mm barrel. I's full supported (literally) and "Plasma coated" inside so I can shoot lead bullets without leading.
I am very happy with this barrel. It was expensive but due to poor offer of aftermarket barrels for Glock here in Europe I had to buy it. But never regretted :cool:
I don't know about their .40 conversion barrels but with that Plasma coating you'll have no leading issues w. HC bullets hard enough (21-23 BNH). This coating is worth few $ more.

pasky2112
08-03-2012, 16:07
If you don't have an extended striker, I would give it a go with the stock barrel. I have hundreds of .40 through a 10mm barrel, with no issues at all.
Do you shoot jacketed bullets in .40 S&W out of your stock G20 bbl also?

Yondering
08-03-2012, 19:56
Jacketed or cast, either works fine.

Meathead9
08-03-2012, 21:51
I've been meaning to ask you guys about shooting 40 through a stock G20 barrel. Since it would ONLY be headspaced on the extractor, what is the possibility of rounds being fired while not flush with the breachface? If that happened frequently, wouldn't that batter the breachface pretty badly? Someone recently mentioned the possibility of gas cutting around the primer as well during a situation like that. Is there any merit to any of that?

Any Cal.
08-04-2012, 02:16
I don't think so. There isn't much slop behind the extractor, you can see that when you put a case in it. There isn't anymore reason for gas cutting around the primer than there is in a revo, which has clearance between the case head and breechface. You would need a LOT of clearance there, like letting the primer back halfway out. Battering? Revos don't. Even if the case headspaces on the mouth, it isn't likely to be hard up against the breechface until it is over length, at which point it would begin to hold the slide out of battery. The trim-to length is where the case headspaces on the case mouth, and is against the extractor, the max length is when the case headspaces on the case mouth and is touching the breechface (in theory...)

Yondering
08-04-2012, 12:17
Someone recently mentioned the possibility of gas cutting around the primer as well during a situation like that. Is there any merit to any of that?

I can't imagine how that would be true. Why would slightly extra headspace allow gas around the primer? Unless you're using nuke loads that blow the primer pockets, that stays sealed.

I mentioned recently some gas cutting due to cracked WLP primers, which Winchester replaced for me. Maybe that's what you were thinking of?

Meathead9
08-04-2012, 14:01
I can't imagine how that would be true. Why would slightly extra headspace allow gas around the primer? Unless you're using nuke loads that blow the primer pockets, that stays sealed.

I mentioned recently some gas cutting due to cracked WLP primers, which Winchester replaced for me. Maybe that's what you were thinking of?

No, it was a couple people on Brian Enos & Pistol Training forums. I mentioned that I knew of a few guys that shoot 40 & 40 loaded to 10mm Specs/OAL in a standard G20 barrel. I've never personally done it, so I wasn't able to give any insight. I'll have to go back and see exactly what they said.

Opie 1 Kenopie
08-04-2012, 14:11
I get free .40 at work. I run 'em through my 29 and 20 with no problems. Range only of course.

Meathead9
08-04-2012, 14:17
I wouldn't want to shoot 40 out of a 10mm barrel for any match that matters. Lots of things can go wrong, a search would probably turn up a lot of details. Accuracy would be sketchy and variation over the chronograph would be large, IF the gun ran well at all. Glock breechfaces can & will erode around the striker hole if the gun shoots at all out of spec.

Not at all a good idea. Running a 35k psi round headspacing off the extractor claw is just asking to grenade your pistol*... (Or for exotic malfs if the striker manages to kick it forward out from under the claw without busting the cap.)

Here are a couple of the comments that were made.

dm1906
08-04-2012, 15:22
I've heard/read of a lot of warnings and theoretical failures that could happen if you shoot .40 in a 10mm barrel (Glock, OEM or aftermarket). I have yet to hear/see any of them actually happening. I shoot a lot of .40 through all of mine and never a problem. Actually, it's been no less reliable than shooting 10's, with about the same number of each through them. There are considerations, such as fouling of the chamber, but it's only a problem if you ignore it. Yeah, I suppose could put an eye out with that, and running with scissors will kill you dead.

Any Cal.
08-04-2012, 22:54
Here are a couple of the comments that were made.

Accuracy is identical, the bullet is in the same place since the OAL is the same. Why would it change?

If the case blew past the extractor, it means the extractor is broken and you are screwed anyway.

I figure the short case coupled with the large slide opening and extra room in the chamber is theoretically more reliable.

Take the slide off and play with an empty case, see what happens. Use .40 OAL and try to induce a malf. See if you can fire a round ahead of the extractor with the slide in battery. See how many recorded malfs there are that involve a round feeding ahead of the extractor.

The length of exposed bullet using .40 brass to 1.260 OAL is the same as a 9mm. It is almost like the .40 was conceived first, then they added the longer case, ala .44 special/mag.

-Edit- Found your post, I'll take the heat for you...:-)

WeeWilly
08-05-2012, 10:24
I wonder in everyday shooting how many .45ACP, .40S&W, 10mm, 9mm, et al. rounds end up headspacing on the extractor? I mean, a case that is a little under length is going to end up headspaced on the extractor anyway.

I don't load to .40S&W length anymore anyway. I load all my 40 cases to 10mm length and loads. Doesn't seem to matter which barrel I choose to shoot these out of stock G20 or the KKM 10-40 conversion, they both shoot them reliably, although the slight edge goes to the stock 10mm barrel for accuracy, mainly because of the less than perfect lockup due to a less than perfect fit job I did on the KKM barrel.

I did find the limit of the freebore on my KKM 10-40 conversion barrel, it was throated to allow me to load all the way to 1.260" and not a mil longer.

Meathead9
08-05-2012, 12:34
Accuracy is identical, the bullet is in the same place since the OAL is the same. Why would it change?

If the case blew past the extractor, it means the extractor is broken and you are screwed anyway.

I figure the short case coupled with the large slide opening and extra room in the chamber is theoretically more reliable.

Take the slide off and play with an empty case, see what happens. Use .40 OAL and try to induce a malf. See if you can fire a round ahead of the extractor with the slide in battery. See how many recorded malfs there are that involve a round feeding ahead of the extractor.

The length of exposed bullet using .40 brass to 1.260 OAL is the same as a 9mm. It is almost like the .40 was conceived first, then they added the longer case, ala .44 special/mag.

-Edit- Found your post, I'll take the heat for you...:-)

I just saw your post over on BE, thanks for chiming in. So many expert theories get regurgitated as fact by people who have never done it, so it's good to see the myths get busted.

I wonder in everyday shooting how many .45ACP, .40S&W, 10mm, 9mm, et al. rounds end up headspacing on the extractor? I mean, a case that is a little under length is going to end up headspaced on the extractor anyway.

I don't load to .40S&W length anymore anyway. I load all my 40 cases to 10mm length and loads. Doesn't seem to matter which barrel I choose to shoot these out of stock G20 or the KKM 10-40 conversion, they both shoot them reliably, although the slight edge goes to the stock 10mm barrel for accuracy, mainly because of the less than perfect lockup due to a less than perfect fit job I did on the KKM barrel.

I did find the limit of the freebore on my KKM 10-40 conversion barrel, it was throated to allow me to load all the way to 1.260" and not a mil longer.

Thanks Willy. Is it also safe to say that you haven't had any issues with seating depth using 40 brass @ 1.26" OAL? Also, do the standard SPP ignite properly, or are you using SPM/SRP?


.

Yondering
08-05-2012, 12:58
Thanks Willy. Is it also safe to say that you haven't had any issues with seating depth using 40 brass @ 1.26" OAL? Also, do the standard SPP ignite properly, or are you using SPM/SRP?


1.26" OAL in 40 brass works well with all 180+ jacketed bullets, and some lighter bullets too, especially hollow points. It doesn't work well with a lot of cast bullets, because of the location of the lube groove.
I've not had any issues with standard SP primers.

Those comments from the BE forum sound like people who have no experience with it; lots of "what if" scenarios with no basis in reality. There are just too many people out there who can't think outside the box, or outside the reloading manual.

Any Cal.
08-05-2012, 13:21
Since primers were mentioned, I was getting 10-15% misfires w/ small rifle primers using .40 brass and stock firing system. No issues w/ small pistol. If somebody is getting better results, please let me know, or tell me what would need to be changed. I wonder if the firing pin hit may be softer since the case mouth is not against the barrel, but don't know if the stock system could ignite them reliably even if they were.

WeeWilly
08-05-2012, 16:24
...Thanks Willy. Is it also safe to say that you haven't had any issues with seating depth using 40 brass @ 1.26" OAL? Also, do the standard SPP ignite properly, or are you using SPM/SRP?.

I have been using up a bunch of SPM primers I've had for a long time, mainly AA#9, BD and LS. When those are gone I will try regular SP's. I think the only powder above that may not like the SP might be BD, #9 and LS seem pretty well behaved. I might be wrong about this, but I was under the impression SRP and SPM were identical primers.

I have not had any problems loading to 1.260" with 40 cases. I am loading PD 180 JFP and 180 XTP's. They work great, feed 100% reliably (for the KKM conversion barrel, I do have to assure the OAL is not over 1.260, or it will fail to go into battery) and they shoot identical (as least as well as I can shoot) to 10mm cased rounds.

I would never use these rounds for anything serious, Starline 10mm cases aren't that expensive, but when you have buckets full of spent 40 brass, it sure makes sense for practice ammo.

dm1906
08-05-2012, 18:18
I have been using up a bunch of SPM primers I've had for a long time, mainly AA#9, BD and LS. When those are gone I will try regular SP's. I think the only powder above that may not like the SP might be BD, #9 and LS seem pretty well behaved. I might be wrong about this, but I was under the impression SRP and SPM were identical primers.........

They're not the same, they only share dimensions. SR fit in SP pockets, but the they are of different construction and power. If you have a "light" firing pin, it may not light off a SRP. If you use SPM primers in a rifle round, you'll likely blow it out, and/or kill your firing pin, and/or cause other damage/injury.

LP/LR primers, on the other hand, are more different. Same diameter, but LR primers are taller. They do have some use in pistol rounds, though. A modified BIG magnum case (.454 and up) is often used with LR primers. It is recommended for full-house .460 and .500 S&W Magnums. Starline offers these cases with deep pockets for that purpose.

Any Cal.
08-05-2012, 18:34
They are a different construction, but the same type and amount of priming compound, at least in some brands.

dm1906
08-05-2012, 19:26
They are a different construction, but the same type and amount of priming compound, at least in some brands.

Maybe true for some brands, maybe during some periods/lots, but I dunno. I use all of the most common primer brands, or have at one time or another. There is a definite difference between all 4, SP, SPM, SR and SRM. I used to shoot a lot of indoor rubber, primer-fired bullets with .38 Spl, and they are progressively more powerful. So much so, that SPM was about as fast as the trap will handle safely. SR sometimes would bounce them out of the trap at a dangerously high rate, and SRM would destroy the bullets and dent the metal trap. Good shooters at longer range, though.

Yondering
08-05-2012, 20:45
For anyone still wondering if you can run 40 S&W in a 10mm chamber, did you know that 40 S&W will chamber and fire in a 45 Glock? Let me share something dumb I did this afternoon:

I was going to test some loads in my G21, and found one extra round with the same bullet style, loaded up and sitting on my bench. Thinking I should get rid of it before loading more and mixing them up, I loaded that one in the mag and fired it at the target in the backyard. Hmm, that was a real light load, and the bullet hit the target sideways, not enough juice to eject the brass... Turns out that was a 40 S&W round, that I mistook for a 45. My only excuse is that I'd just been loading a bunch of 9mm, and the 40 felt bigger so I didn't catch it.

Anyway, the point being, the extractor in my 21 was able to hold that 40 S&W round in a 45 chamber, with no other support, and still fired. This reinforces, in my mind at least, that the extractor is all that's needed, when firing 40 in a 10mm chamber.

Pic of the fired case:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/IMG_0609.jpg

WeeWilly
08-05-2012, 20:54
The U die will fix it right up ;)

dm1906
08-05-2012, 21:22
Yep. I have a "fat" 9mm case, fired in a .40. Actually worked well enough, I didn't notice it until I policed the brass. If push came to shove, I could run that case through the .40 die, and do it again. It doesn't look all that much different than a .40 with a Glock pot-belly. I can see a .40 getting mixed in with .45, and go downrange. At least you hit the target well enough to know it key-holed.

pasky2112
08-05-2012, 22:29
If you don't have an extended striker, I would give it a go with the stock barrel. I have hundreds of .40 through a 10mm barrel, with no issues at all.
Sorry...new to 10mm glocks...what is 'extended striker'? Does a stock G20 have this?

Thank you.

id1otbox
08-05-2012, 22:34
If I was ever to dump 300 into my glock it would be to get her a sister

Any Cal.
08-05-2012, 22:42
Sorry...new to 10mm glocks...what is 'extended striker'? Does a stock G20 have this?

Thank you.

A stock gun would not have it, it is an option for some aftermarket firing pins. It is a firing pin that protrudes farther out of the slide than a stock one would. Part of the reason the Glock is safe for shooting the .40 brass is because the firing pin can not hit the primer if the case is ahead of the extractor, if an extended firing pin is installed, that may not hold true anymore.

dm1906
08-06-2012, 00:14
The extended strikers aren't THAT much longer. If the cartridge is ahead of the extractor, it still won't hit a primer with the extended striker. I suppose it could happen under very specific conditions, but I haven't heard of it happening. If it did, I don't see any real danger, anyway. I have a 10mm revolver, which is head-spaced on the case mouth (no moon clips). No problem with a short case (within the reach of an extended striker), at all. If it locks up and fires, it'll be fine, in any case.

2240
08-06-2012, 03:30
Glad some body else is shooting 40's out of a 10mm. I've shot 1000's of 40's in 10mm guns with no ill effects. Every time I've mentioned that it is possible I always get jumped on by guys who knows it all but have never done it. I don't even think they even own a 10mm :).

pasky2112
08-06-2012, 07:55
Do you shoot pretty hot loads in your stock bbl without killing your brasslife?
I am waiting for my first 10mm. I reload .40 all the time and just have minor bulge and occasional case mouth dings. But know I'm seeing threads with split cases in new Starlines with sub-max BD charges, etc. makes me wonder if the 'unsupported' chamber in stock bbl is more of an issue in 10mm hot loads?? I don't mind as much with .40's since I occaisionally pick up a cpl hundred once-fired range pick-ups...not so much w/ 10mm ;-)