So after 40 rounds of 125gr LRN [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 09:09
I noticed leading in the barrel. it wasnt alot but after some CLP and 3-5 passes with a brush coated in copper strings ( cant remember the brush name..) i still noticed a couple spots in the bbl. Im letting some clp sit in it for a couple hours now.

Bullets were 125gr LRN sized to .356
Powder was 3.8-4.1gr of W231
OAL 1.100


What gives kids?

WiskyT
07-22-2012, 09:25
0.356" is usually too small, but it is all that most commercial outfits offer. Also, typically, those bullets are very hard which only makes things worse. The first thing I would try is a slower powder. If you have Unique or similar, try a start load of that. If all you have is the 231, try using a bit less, say 3.5 grains. Also, the 3.8 charge may have not leaded and you might be seeing the leading from the 4.1. did you check for leading as you progressed through the powder charges, or just at the end of the session?

Leading shows up pretty quickly. I would load 10 or 20 of 3.5, and 10 or 20 of 3.8. Shoot the 3.5 and inspect the bore. If all is well, try the 3.8 and inspect again. 231 is a pretty fast powder and i have found 3.5 of Bullseye is about the limit before leading starts in my 9mm's with a 125 bullet.

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 09:51
check wisky. i do have some unique left over i could try. but i did just buy a fresh lb of w231.. lol

what would you suggest with unique?

WiskyT
07-22-2012, 09:57
check wisky. i do have some unique left over i could try. but i did just buy a fresh lb of w231.. lol

what would you suggest with unique?

5.2 is around 1150 and which is what factory ball does. It's a max load so I wouldn't start out with it. I would try 4.5-4.8 and see how it does with the Unique.

231 is a good powder, but fast powders and high pressure don't do well with lead bullets. If it runs fine with 3.5-3.8, you can use it for that. You can also use it at full loads with jacketed bullets.

SJ 40
07-22-2012, 09:57
Unique,Power Pistol but my preference would be WSF,like Unique in burn rate and performance but cleaner.That said if I could only have one powder that would be Unique.
SJ 40

F106 Fan
07-22-2012, 10:13
I prefer the Lewis Lead Remover for cleaning lead out of barrels:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=0/k=lewis+lead+remover/t=P/ksubmit=y/Products/All/search=lewis_lead_remover

Richard

El_Ron1
07-22-2012, 10:19
You can let CLP sit in the barrel until the Four Horsemen arrive and it's not going to persuade that lead to disperse. Go buy some:



http://www.cbdistributorsinc.com/images/Chore-Boy-Copper-Pads.gif

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 10:23
5.2 is around 115 and which is what factory ball does. It's a max load so I wouldn't start out with it. I would try 4.5-4.8 and see how it does with the Unique.

231 is a good powder, but fast powders and high pressure don't do well with lead bullets. If it runs fine with 3.5-3.8, you can use it for that. You can also use it at full loads with jacketed bullets.

it very well could be the higher powder loads caused the leading wisky. I will try a 3.5 load and a 3.8 this time.

where you getting the unique data? my lyman doesnt have a 125 bullet.

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 10:24
You can let CLP sit in the barrel until the Four Horsemen arrive and it's not going to persuade that lead to disperse. Go buy some:



http://www.cbdistributorsinc.com/images/Chore-Boy-Copper-Pads.gif


if you read my post i talk about a copper coated brush.. ahem.. Thats what its coated in lol a helluva lot of chore boy.

El_Ron1
07-22-2012, 10:33
Sorry, you activated my ChoreBoy kneejerk response. At least I left the FCD out of it.




:rofl:

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 10:39
Oh lord.. NOT THE LFCD!!!!!!!! lol

WiskyT
07-22-2012, 10:54
it very well could be the higher powder loads caused the leading wisky. I will try a 3.5 load and a 3.8 this time.

where you getting the unique data? my lyman doesnt have a 125 bullet.

I don't remember where I got the 5.2 from. It might have been on the wall in the men's room. I'll look around and see if I can find it in any of my manuals. i have shot lots of it. It might have been in my Speer 13 which I loaned out and never got back. 5.8 is the max with jacketed from Alliant and Speer so it's not a screwball load.

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 10:59
check wisky.

WeeWilly
07-22-2012, 11:04
I have found bullet size the biggest factor in leading (except for when I try to push a plain base really hard, like in my 10mm's). Getting the size right can be kind of vexing with a revolver as you have a lot of hole dimensions to worry about, in a semi pistol much less of a challenge.

Many manufacturers will sell a custom size bullet if you ask, some like Penn offer it right up front.

On the other hand, I always read how guys get zero leading in all their guns. I have rarely been that lucky, I just clean it out with Chore Boy wrapped around a bore brush, no big deal.

WiskyT
07-22-2012, 11:06
Okay, Lyman 45th edition form back when Jack was wearing a pornstar mustache and sans-a-belt slacks shows 6.0 Unique with a 121 grain cast.

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 11:09
6gr max wisky?

F106 Fan
07-22-2012, 11:10
I don't know anything about loading the 125 gr LRN but...

Speer #10 shows the 125 gr LRN with Unique at:
4.1 gr (min) 911 fps
4.5 gr (max) 1007 fps

It also shows the Jacketed Soft Point with Unique as:
5.5 gr (min) 1061 fps
5.9 gr (max) 1192 fps

Richard

WiskyT
07-22-2012, 11:11
6gr max wisky?

Yes, max. Let us know how they do:supergrin:

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 11:13
I don't know anything about loading the 125 gr LRN but...

Speer #10 shows the 125 gr LRN with Unique at:
4.1 gr (min) 911 fps
4.5 gr (max) 1007 fps

It also shows the Jacketed Soft Point with Unique as:
5.5 gr (min) 1061 fps
5.9 gr (max) 1192 fps

Richard

what the crap! lol i hate reloading data sometimes.

WiskyT
07-22-2012, 11:16
Speer's LRN was swaged from butter soft lead. They limited their data based on performance of the bullet, not chamber pressure.

F106 Fan
07-22-2012, 11:43
what the crap! lol i hate reloading data sometimes.

As I said, I don't know anything about loading this bullet. A chronograph might help sort it out. Still, there's only a slight relationship between pressure and velocity.

I really hate guessing!

Richard

WiskyT
07-22-2012, 11:47
As I said, I don't know anything about loading this bullet. A chronograph might help sort it out. Still, there's only a slight relationship between pressure and velocity.

I really hate guessing!

Richard

What guessing is there? Lyman printed manual shows 6.0 grains as max. 5.2 grains is all that's needed to duplicate factory 124 ammo so you don't need a chrono either and you still won't be guessing.

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 11:48
should i just load 5.2 wisky or should i go 5.5 as well?

WiskyT
07-22-2012, 11:53
should i just load 5.2 wisky or should i go 5.5 as well?

I never loaded 5.5 with a 125 cast so I don't know how that would shoot. It could open a wormhole for all I know.

I'd start at 4.5 and load a dozen or so of each in 0.2 grain increments up to 5.2 or so. 5.2 is a lot more than you need to make the gun go "bang" and put a hole in the target so you don't need to go that high if you don't want to.

ETA: just to be clear, we are talking about Unique here

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 12:01
haha yea i getcha. I dont wana know what 5.2gr of w231 would do.. @_@

F106 Fan
07-22-2012, 12:02
What guessing is there? Lyman printed manual shows 6.0 grains as max. 5.2 grains is all that's needed to duplicate factory 124 ammo so you don't need a chrono either and you still won't be guessing.

Whenever I have two sources that are wildly different and I pick one, I am guessing.

Richard

fredj338
07-22-2012, 12:48
Lead bullets & 9mm always seems to be a struggle. It's a balancing act of pressures vs bullet hardness vs dia. If buying commercial, you have few choices, if casting your own, you can get better results w/ less fuss. As noted, try 0.356, if running midrange loads, you want a medium hard bullet, 14-15BHN. If running commercial hardcast, you are going to want to run them warmer. Bullet fit is always the culprit. If the bullets are small, they will lead @ any vel.

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 12:59
trying to think if i have something around the house i could push the bullet through with to slug my bbl.

The bullets are commercial 9mm 125gr RN BB. Sized to .356 diameter. Lubed with Ballisti-cast blue hard lube. BHN hardness 16

WiskyT
07-22-2012, 13:06
Whenever I have two sources that are wildly different and I pick one, I am guessing.

Richard

All sources are different, even from the same company in different editions, so all of it is a guess by that logic. The fact is, there are reasons why data is sometimes very low and I listed the reasons Speer's is where it is. It's the same reason Hornady limits it's data with their swaged lead bullets and Hornady says it's the reason. Look at Hornady's data for 357 Mag with Hornady's swaged lead bullets, their loads are no where near the 35KPSI limit for 357Mag.

There is no guessing about the Lyman load. It is what it is. I can think of several good reasons not to use the max Lyman load, but none of them should be that the load isn't safe if worked up to.

fredj338
07-22-2012, 16:36
trying to think if i have something around the house i could push the bullet through with to slug my bbl.

The bullets are commercial 9mm 125gr RN BB. Sized to .356 diameter. Lubed with Ballisti-cast blue hard lube. BHN hardness 16

You'll want s softer, over sized lead slug for slugging the bbl. Use a brass or alumn rod, 5/16" dia from the hardware store works. Lube the slug, pound it gently thru the bbl. chamber to muzzle if possible. Where is the leadin, early all thru or late in the bbl?
Early is oftens too small or too hard. Middle is often a rough bore or constriction, late is often lube failure. A well fitting bullet good lube, decent alloy matched to the pressure used, you should exp little to no leading.

Fwdftw
07-22-2012, 20:05
ALLL Right folks. Here are my results.

Went to the range with 3 different loads. After shooting each group i pulled the bbl out of the gun and inspected. Of course each had powder fouling. I took some Winchester powder blast with me to get most of that out of the bbl so i could see if it had lead build up. The results after each group are in red.

3.8gr w231 @ 1.100 OAL Saw some leading. Not awhole lot..but enough where i had to break out the choreboy.
4.5gr Unique @ 1.100 OAL Results where more accurate than the w231 load. Some very little leading, came out with powder blast and 1-2 passes with the brush.
4.9gr Unique @ OAL 1.100 This was the money maker. Little to no leading at all. I hit it with the powder blast and it looked clean.


SOOOOO moral of the story is I have an extra lb of w231 laying around now.. lol and i need another lb of unique.. Thanks Wisky for your help and all the other fellas.. Love this place!!

and my 200 rounds of .223 ( 23.5gr TAC 62gr SS109 @ 2.250 Worked like a charm like always!)

WiskyT
07-23-2012, 15:26
I spread the Gospel of Unique for all to see. Some they listen, some they don't. I ask for nothing in return. I leave bottles of Unique in hotels so that travelers may see the Gloria of Unique.

DoctaGlockta
07-25-2012, 19:52
I spread the Gospel of Unique for all to see. Some they listen, some they don't. I ask for nothing in return. I leave bottles of Unique in hotels so that travelers may see the Gloria of Unique.

Amen Brother!

http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/funny-gif-jacket-of-smite.gif?w=600

Fwdftw
07-25-2012, 20:39
I loaded up 100 rounds of the higher unique charge. We shall see soon!