E.A.G. Tactical [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Phillip_Rios
07-23-2012, 11:58
Has anyone had any experience with one of their rifles? I've been thinking about adding one of those to my collection (here is a link so you know what I'm talking about)(http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M16-A4-AR15-Bravo-Company-carbine-EAG-Pat-Rogers-s/151.htm) and taking their training course.

12131
07-23-2012, 12:08
Excellent ARs come from Bravo Company USA.

youngAR
07-23-2012, 14:35
Gtg rifles. Also look at Daniel Defense.

MrMurphy
07-23-2012, 19:13
Excellent rifles and training.

Reb 56
07-23-2012, 22:08
I'd love to have one but a little out of my price range (actually a lot).

AK_Stick
07-24-2012, 00:47
Quality rifles, and some of the best training you can pay for IMO.

Phillip_Rios
08-04-2012, 09:10
Anyone have any other opinions about this?

seanmac45
08-04-2012, 09:21
You pay for what you get. The EAG model is spec'd by Pat Rogers. He knows what works and what doesn't through the crucible of observing millions of rounds downrange from the AR platform each year that he teaches. Pat is not the type of guy to recommend something for its' cool factor. His only concern is the reliability of the weapon when your life is on the line.

Phillip_Rios
08-04-2012, 09:28
If I do buy this (it's currently at the top of my list) it will be the primary weapon for my home defense, and I will take Pat's training course to become more familiar with the platform. Does anyone have any recommendations for another home defense gun, be it handgun or shotgun?

ranger1968
08-04-2012, 09:36
As a guy who teaches defensive classes for rifle, shotgun and handgun , I can tell you that for home defensive purposes , you will generally be better served by using a decent quality shotgun; I personally like the Remington 870 platfrom, but there are any number of other manufacturers whose offerings will work as well.

Having said that, and back on topic, Pat Rogers is a pretty good instructor, and the gear he reccomends tends to be field-tested; his reccomendations are generally pretty solid.

AK_Stick
08-04-2012, 19:49
As a guy who teaches defensive classes for rifle, shotgun and handgun , I can tell you that for home defensive purposes , you will generally be better served by using a decent quality shotgun; I personally like the Remington 870 platfrom, but there are any number of other manufacturers whose offerings will work as well.

Having said that, and back on topic, Pat Rogers is a pretty good instructor, and the gear he reccomends tends to be field-tested; his reccomendations are generally pretty solid.



Aside from breaching locks/doors, in what ways do you think a shotgun is superior to a rifle?


While they're effective, in every situation/role I can think of a rifle is a superior tool.

MrMurphy
08-04-2012, 20:04
Agreed.....also depends on what the original poster is most familiar with.

I've used shotguns for home defense. I do use a pistol and rifle for it now.

I've spent literally almost my entire adult life around the M16/M4 platform as a civilian and military to some degree, and I'm far more familiar with it than any shotgun. Having spent a lot of time clearing rooms with one, I'll take it first, period.

Some guys grew up with a shotgun in hand hunting. Shotgun would generally be a better first pick in their case.

Pistols are handy, but not overly powerful. Good for the bedside in case of instant need, but a long gun is a far better fight stopper.

ranger1968
08-05-2012, 01:13
Aside from breaching locks/doors, in what ways do you think a shotgun is superior to a rifle?


While they're effective, in every situation/role I can think of a rifle is a superior tool.

Let me put it this way; the only thing a rifle really gives you over a shotgun is effective range; at typical home distances- hallways, rooms, etc, a shotgun is far superior in the amount of damage it is able to inflict on a per-shot basis.


If you are shooting at distance, a rifle has a definite atvantage; but for shorter range defensive usage, a shotgun is the way to go.

In what way, in the scenario presented- home defense- which normally means shorter distances/inside etc, would you consider, say, the AR-15 platform superior to a shotgun?

jedi573
08-05-2012, 02:32
I have one. I use it at work as a patrol rifle. I ditched the shorty vertical fore grip and offset-mount flashlight. I slapped a TLR-1s on the front, an Aimpoint up top, and swapped the sling for a single-point.

Great little rifle. Balances very well. I'd recommend one to a friend.

Andy

AK_Stick
08-05-2012, 02:40
Let me put it this way; the only thing a rifle really gives you over a shotgun is effective range; at typical home distances- hallways, rooms, etc, a shotgun is far superior in the amount of damage it is able to inflict on a per-shot basis.


If you are shooting at distance, a rifle has a definite atvantage; but for shorter range defensive usage, a shotgun is the way to go.

In what way, in the scenario presented- home defense- which normally means shorter distances/inside etc, would you consider, say, the AR-15 platform superior to a shotgun?


I disagree.

A rifle is more accurate, has more rounds, and has the ability to engage any threat, without changing ammo.


If I have to take a shot around a hostage, or in the direction of non hostiles, a rifle is far superior.

It brings far more rounds to the fight, so, should something go south, I don't have to worry about reloading for 5-6 times as long as a shotgun.

And should I have to engage a suspect behind a vehicle, through auto glass, or some such, the rifle can do that with the same load. I don't have to worry about the right load for the job.


An AR-15, is superior to the shotgun in nearly every HD scenario imaginable, unless I'm defending my home from a predator who happens to be on 4 legs, and equipped with long fur, claws and teeth.



Its not that the shotgun isn't a good choice. I just can't see any situations involving a human, where a pump gun will be more useful than a purpose built fighting rifle.

WayaX
08-05-2012, 11:20
An AR-15, is superior to the shotgun in nearly every HD scenario imaginable, unless I'm defending my home from a predator who happens to be on 4 legs, and equipped with long fur, claws and teeth.



Its not that the shotgun isn't a good choice. I just can't see any situations involving a human, where a pump gun will be more useful than a purpose built fighting rifle.

You won't ever end an argument with these shotgun types even when you present them with facts and reality. The bird-shot guys are even worse.

To the OP: The rifle is solid. Take a course with Mr. Rogers, he is a well-respected trainer. Once you learn how to handle a carbine, you will see why it is the top choice for home defense.

ranger1968
08-05-2012, 11:36
I don't know that I am what you would call a "shotgun type".....

But I believe in the best tool for a given job, and the fact is, a shotgun delivers more energy on target than a rifle per shot, and in the contect given- home defense, which usually means close quarter engagements , inside a structure or very close to, as opposed to a vehicle assault or an engagment at distance- it is a more effective device.

I have found that it's much harder to convince the "rifle types", even when you point out the fact that putting 540 grains of lead and copper at around 1,350 fps into a human being with a single shot causes signifgantly more trauma generally than putting a 55 grain projectile at 3,000 fps into that same target.....

Just saying.

In the confines of the average residentiual structure, a 12 ga shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot is about the most effective defensive tool going.

Outside of the confines of a structure, (and I don't mean just outside the door or in the driveway) when distances become a factor, the rifle is the right tool. (although I think you will be disappointed with the 5.56 after barrier performance with most rounds)

Yes, the rilfe will also work for CQB, but it will not work as well.

BTW, birdshot is for birds.

to the OP: as I said before, Pat Rogers is a pretty good instructor, and he is tough on his gear; he reccomends proven stuff. you don't have to get an "EAG" carbine, but pay attention to his gear choices, he knows what works.

If you get the opportunity, take an EAG course; you will learn a lot, and you will get to know your rifle better. Mr, Roger sometimes talks a bit more than he maybe should, and you get a lot of opinions that don't have all that much to do with shooting sometimes, but the classes themselves are sound, and you will learn a lot.

Victoriagotagun
08-05-2012, 11:52
Bravo Company makes some great rifles but personally I wouldn't want a E.A.G AR from Pat Rogers.

http://www.fakewarriors.org/phonies/phonies408.htm

Phillip_Rios
08-05-2012, 12:05
Are the rifle guys worried about shotgun barrels giving away their position, or are they worried about not being able to put enough rounds into someone fast enough, or failing to work the slide completely in a stressful situation? From what I can see, both weapon systems would be enough to stop your run of the mill intruder. Someone shed some light on something I'm missing here.

NeverMore1701
08-05-2012, 12:28
Oh look, a shotgun vs. rifle debate! We haven't had one of those in at least.... Wait, there's another one going on right now, nevermind.




Rifle > shotgun.

Phillip_Rios
08-05-2012, 12:36
What's your reason for rifle>shotgun?

NeverMore1701
08-05-2012, 12:56
Same as the others. Pinpoint accuracy, high capacity, low recoil for fast follow up shots, usually shorter OAL, ability to use one handed, faster reloads.

ranger1968
08-05-2012, 13:40
Oh look, a shotgun vs. rifle debate! We haven't had one of those in at least.... Wait, there's another one going on right now, nevermind.




Rifle > shotgun.

Different tools for different jobs; an open mind is a wonderful thing, my friend.

NeverMore1701
08-05-2012, 13:43
Different tools for different jobs; an open mind is a wonderful thing, my friend.

You'll never catch me saying a 12ga is a bad choice. I just believe that for many people, including myself, an AR is a better option.

samuse
08-05-2012, 15:46
I've gone through a few of the more popular training classes and I prefer to run a carbine setup basically the way Larry Vickers runs his.

-X-300 @ 12:00
-12" free-float rail
-Vickers sling mounted on the stock and receiver end of the rail
-Aimpoint Micro (lower 1/3 cw)
-fixed irons

I've tried a 9" rail with a Scout light and I never could warm up to it. I hate single-point slings too.

Different strokes for everyone, you just have to try a few different setups to see what you like.

Go to a carbine course and talk to everyone about their equipment and see what you wind up liking.

AK_Stick
08-05-2012, 23:07
Are the rifle guys worried about shotgun barrels giving away their position, or are they worried about not being able to put enough rounds into someone fast enough, or failing to work the slide completely in a stressful situation? From what I can see, both weapon systems would be enough to stop your run of the mill intruder. Someone shed some light on something I'm missing here.

Its not that the shotgun is a bad system. Its that the rifle, is a better system. It covers everything a shotgun can, and it offers advantages over the shotgun.


I don't know that I am what you would call a "shotgun type".....

But I believe in the best tool for a given job, and the fact is, a shotgun delivers more energy on target than a rifle per shot, and in the contect given- home defense, which usually means close quarter engagements , inside a structure or very close to, as opposed to a vehicle assault or an engagment at distance- it is a more effective device.

I have found that it's much harder to convince the "rifle types", even when you point out the fact that putting 540 grains of lead and copper at around 1,350 fps into a human being with a single shot causes signifgantly more trauma generally than putting a 55 grain projectile at 3,000 fps into that same target.....


Energy, does not kill.


There is a reason, that nearly everyone has gone from shotguns to rifles for CQB. Its not because "they will also work, but not as well."

Similarly, there's a reason that shotguns are coming out of more and more cop cars, and rifles into them. The shotgun has been relegated to breaching, and LL employment. Its certainly not because its the better tool.



But, as I said, the shotgun, is not a bad choice. Its just there are better.

KnotDR
08-06-2012, 10:22
As a guy who teaches defensive classes for rifle, shotgun and handgun , I can tell you that for home defensive purposes , you will generally be better served by using a decent quality shotgun; I personally like the Remington 870 platfrom, but there are any number of other manufacturers whose offerings will work as well.

Having said that, and back on topic, Pat Rogers is a pretty good instructor, and the gear he reccomends tends to be field-tested; his reccomendations are generally pretty solid.

Oh for God's sake.

KnotDR
08-06-2012, 10:25
Bravo Company makes some great rifles but personally I wouldn't want a E.A.G AR from Pat Rogers.

http://www.fakewarriors.org/phonies/phonies408.htm

pow network has an axe to grind with Rogers because he's friends with the guys from Strider knives, who are **** ups. I have never seen any reliable claims that Rogers lied about his background. This crap is certainly no reason to avoid training with Rogers.

KnotDR
08-06-2012, 10:27
If I do buy this (it's currently at the top of my list) it will be the primary weapon for my home defense, and I will take Pat's training course to become more familiar with the platform. Does anyone have any recommendations for another home defense gun, be it handgun or shotgun?

By the gun and take the class, the information here on home defense is often about the same quality as you would receive at the Wal Mart gun counter

ranger1968
08-06-2012, 12:55
Oh for God's sake.

Yes?....

And?

seanmac45
08-06-2012, 13:56
Pat Rogers and I have been close friends for over twenty years. We worked together in the NYPD and I have trained with him extensively. I have seen more than enough empirical evidence in my relationship with Pat to thoroughly refute all of the slanderous lies and half truths that are on that onerous website.

I know of no finer American who has served his country in more meaningful ways than this man has. The purveyors of that site should be ashamed of themselves for attempting to smear the good name of an honorable Marine.

guns85
08-08-2012, 18:49
Pat Rogers usually has loner weapons at his EAG classes. Of course they are always BCM Rifles. He has one that has who knows how many rounds through it. I borrowed an Aimpoint H-1 from him when I took an EAG class. The guy has a lot of equipment and is proud of it. BCM are great rifles, I would put them over the Colt LE6920 or 6940's for sure.

Phillip_Rios
08-16-2012, 15:15
Anyone else have something to add to this?