Silencers...justifying their cost [Archive] - Glock Talk

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rimshaker
07-24-2012, 11:58
Been having 2nd thoughts about getting one for my G19 and G21sf.

Overall cost for obtaining a suppressor runs between $1500-2000 easily. That includes everything from establishing a gun trust down to accessories like thread protectors. Not to mention stocking subsonic ammo. This cost can easily buy 4-5 guns instead. Or boatloads of ammo.

Which would you all rather have? Thanks for any opinions or insights.

dkf
07-24-2012, 12:09
I'd like a suppressor however I would rather have 4 or 5 guns or lots of ammo. The regs set forth by the BATF are ridiculous IMO.

stolenphot0
07-24-2012, 12:17
I would get a 9mm and then have a barrel for each 9mm I owned to use the can on. That's how I would justify its cost - spread across 4-5 pistols.

high ground
07-24-2012, 12:23
Don't buy a gold suppressor. Just kidding. I don't know where you got your prices from, but I think I'm into it for less than $800. That's trust, suppressor, and tax stamp.


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cowboy1964
07-24-2012, 12:53
I am checking into suppressors. I'm budgeting $1000 or a little more. Go with .45 and you can use the same ammo as it's all subsonic anyway. I'm trying to decide which .45 to go with. Leaning toward either a Glock 21 (meh) or better yet a USP Tactical.

I cannot "justify" the cost. It would just be a fun thing.

Glockdude1
07-24-2012, 12:54
http://www.silencertalk.com

:cool:

SchHrdKncks
07-24-2012, 13:02
Just bought a sig mosquito with a threaded barrel and suppressor for $575 and a 9mm suppressor for $595 plus the $200 dollar tax stamp on each so they are not as expensive as you think. The threaded glock barrel was $139. I put in my paperwork on Jan 29 and just got my tax stamps back on July 23.

eracer
07-24-2012, 13:02
I can't justify the cost. And yet, I have three of them.

aujrb
07-24-2012, 13:14
You can get an Osprey in .45, and then adapt it for 9mm & .40.

One can...3 calibers.

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TrueGunNut
07-24-2012, 13:14
Get the silencerco osprey 45. That way you can run it on both the g19 and g21. I like the 45 the best for suppressed fire. I don't have to go "out of my way" to stock up on 147 grain 9mm --- not that it is hard to find.

They are expensive, a conversation piece, never know when you might need to shoot quiet. I still want to go deer/hog hunting with my suppressed hk45c...

eracer
07-24-2012, 13:35
You can get an Osprey in .45, and then adapt it for 9mm & .40.

One can...3 calibers.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engineI probably should have done that. Instead I got the Osprey9 for my G17. Then I bought a G21SF after that.

rimshaker
07-24-2012, 13:39
Was set on getting the AAC Ti-rant 45 since it works on both G19 and G21.

Here's the approximate cost breakdown:

Ti-rant 45 ~ $800
9mm adapter $75
2 threaded barrels $370
2 thread protectors $50
Gun trust $350
Stamp tax $200
FFL xfer fee ~ $30-80

That's in the $1500-2000 ballpark, even if i chose to suppress just one gun.

CanMan
07-24-2012, 13:43
I can't justify the cost. And yet, I have three of them.


Me too! All .22 LR. Next one will be for a .223 bolt....probably will just get a .30 cal can and have it do double duty.

fuzzy03cls
07-24-2012, 16:43
Suppressor's just don't look right on glocks.

They look bad ass on the Beretta & AR15 though. If I was to get one those are what i would buy for.

barth
07-24-2012, 16:53
I'd like a suppressor however I would rather have 4 or 5 guns or lots of ammo. The regs set forth by the BATF are ridiculous IMO.

+1
It seems like an expensive novelty.
I've thought about it and came to the same conclusion.
Rather get more guns.

Glockdude1
07-24-2012, 16:53
Was set on getting the AAC Ti-rant 45 since it works on both G19 and G21.

Here's the approximate cost breakdown:

Ti-rant 45 ~ $800
9mm adapter $75
2 threaded barrels $370
2 thread protectors $50
Gun trust $350
Stamp tax $200
FFL xfer fee ~ $30-80

That's in the $1500-2000 ballpark, even if i chose to suppress just one gun.

Just to be clear for those that don't know, the cost of the Trust is a one time fee.

One trust, lots of registered toys in it.

:supergrin:

ak103k
07-24-2012, 17:43
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2db09b3127ccef06d0d3dcb9300000030O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

AAC Eco-9 $450

LWD threaded barrel $125

Stamp $200


Whacking a critter that was in the trash in the carport with a double tap, while the wife and kid were in the room adjoining it and they thought I "dropped something" (well, I did really :rofl:).... priceless. :supergrin:

I shot a critter that was just outside the carport the year before with one round of .22 from my Mosquito with no earplugs and couldnt hear above the ringing and crickets in my ears for three to four days afterwards. Two rounds of 147 grain 9mm Ranger T's from essentially the same position, with no trouble at all.

This past weekend, I shot a critter in the garden from the floor of the carport with my M15A4(T) with its AAC M4-2000, again, no ear plugs, and again, no loss of hearing, not even a little extra "ring" or "crickets". A .223 still makes a little it of noise as it flies though. It also doesnt blow them up like the .17 does either, but it is quieter. :)

TeeJay37
07-24-2012, 18:04
What's the purpose of a trust?

Glockdude1
07-24-2012, 18:13
What's the purpose of a trust?

The C.L.E.O sign off is the hardest part in the world of NFA.
(Chief L/E officer sign off)

Myth: Many in L/E feel if they sign your Form 1, 3, or 4, they are some how "responsible" if you do something stupid and get arrested. NOT TRUE.

The Trust eliminates the need for the signature, fingerprints and pics.

I had a sherrif here tell me the same thing. I told him,"so if I get in my truck, cause a accident, I have would have nothing to fear, because my insurance agent, would be held responsible for all damages?

He quickly tells me, if I am driving, I would be held responsible for any and all accidents I am at fault for.

He still refused to sign my Form 1.

Trust all the way!!!

:cool:

TeeJay37
07-24-2012, 18:18
Okay, so how difficult would it be to get a trust? Also, would you be able to add people to the trust? So, let's say, your spouse wants to take care of a pest, can he/she legally use it?

rimshaker
07-24-2012, 18:26
Okay, so how difficult would it be to get a trust? Also, would you be able to add people to the trust? So, let's say, your spouse wants to take care of a pest, can he/she legally use it?

http://www.guntrust.com/

Glockdude1
07-24-2012, 18:31
In Texas: http://www.texasnfatrust.com

:thumbsup:

ak103k
07-24-2012, 18:55
Ive been hearing the rumor in the last 6 months or so that the ATF wants to either modify the trust filing (photos and prints for each item), or do away with the trusts altogether, and that they are willing to sacrifice (do away with) the LEO sign off to do so.

Has anyone heard or confirmed anything else on this, or is it still just a "rumor"?

rimshaker
07-24-2012, 19:20
Ive been hearing the rumor in the last 6 months or so that the ATF wants to either modify the trust filing (photos and prints for each item), or do away with the trusts altogether, and that they are willing to sacrifice (do away with) the LEO sign off to do so.

Has anyone heard or confirmed anything else on this, or is it still just a "rumor"?

It's rumored legislation still in the works. But having a gun trust is beneficial anyway. Much like a financial trust protects your money, a gun trust protects your firearms.

surfdog
07-25-2012, 04:15
It's rumored legislation still in the works. But having a gun trust is beneficial anyway. Much like a financial trust protects your money, a gun trust protects your firearms.


Ah, then.... No need for a financial trust OR a gun trust. I spend all my money buying more guns to protect my firearms. :dunno:




j/k good info guys.

GLOCK17DB9
07-25-2012, 05:53
I can't see a practical need for one!:dunno:

TTex
07-25-2012, 06:40
Cant you just make one out of soda bottles and toilet tissue?
I suppose you would still need a threaded barrel, so I guess price justification is still an issue. Bummer!

kaech
07-25-2012, 07:06
an old dude at my local indoor range let me shoot his HK usp .45 with a can (the oval kind) it was pretty cool, but inaccurate all shots at 7 yards were 12" left

rjrivero
07-25-2012, 07:11
Been having 2nd thoughts about getting one for my G19 and G21sf.

Overall cost for obtaining a suppressor runs between $1500-2000 easily. That includes everything from establishing a gun trust down to accessories like thread protectors. Not to mention stocking subsonic ammo. This cost can easily buy 4-5 guns instead. Or boatloads of ammo.

Which would you all rather have? Thanks for any opinions or insights.
If you want it, you'll find a way. If you don't, you'll find excuses.

Glock 35 with a Lone Wolf 40-9 Conversion barrel and a Trident-9
Walther P22 with Gemtech Alpine
http://www.revolverforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=46&pictureid=280
9mm AR with same Trident-9 on a custom barrel with oversized perm attached flash hider (to meet the 16" OAL requirement)
http://www.revolverforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=46&pictureid=286

Then you'll start to get silly with it:
AR with 16" barrel and Ops Inc 16th model over an 11.5" AR with an Ops Inc M4S.
http://www.revolverforums.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=46&pictureid=290
Never really thought stamp collecting would be so much fun.....

I can shoot on my own property. I suppress because the neighbors have horses, and I like horses.

DustyJacket
07-25-2012, 07:15
I am checking into suppressors. I'm budgeting $1000 or a little more. Go with .45 and you can use the same ammo as it's all subsonic anyway. I'm trying to decide which .45 to go with. Leaning toward either a Glock 21 (meh) or better yet a USP Tactical.

I cannot "justify" the cost. It would just be a fun thing.

Most .45 suppressors are not hearing safe when run dry.
Tirant and Osprey are.

I went w/9mm - hearing safe on Beretta, a couple of SIGs, and it now sits on an AR pistol.

I love shooting without muffs.

Landric
07-25-2012, 07:48
I can't see a practical need for one!:dunno:

I can, my primary home defense gun is a 9mm AR SBR with a suppressor. With subsonic ammunition (not hard out of a 5" barrel) it is hearing safe. I'm not worried about using NFA for self-defense. There is no law against it, and if I am alive afterword to worry about it, it is a win. Besides, in my county, there is nothing to worry about. The DA here is only concerned with whether or not a shooting is justified. He made the statement recently (in an informal setting) that he didn't care if someone killed a criminal breaking into their house, he thought more justifiable homicides would reduce crime.

Cant you just make one out of soda bottles and toilet tissue?
I suppose you would still need a threaded barrel, so I guess price justification is still an issue. Bummer!

You could, but that would be a felony unless you registered it via a form 1 prior to making it and paid the $200 tax.

I'd like a suppressor however I would rather have 4 or 5 guns or lots of ammo. The regs set forth by the BATF are ridiculous IMO.

Just to be clear, the NFA Branch of the BATF is responsible for the process, but the regulations themselves are a requirement of the National Firearms Act. At any rate, other than the wait, it really isn't that hard. Pick suppressor, fill out form, submit form with $200 tax, wait (about 5-6 months right now), pick up suppressor, go shooting. If one doesn't have a friendly CLEO to sign off, creating a trust is another step, but it is a step that only has to be done once. Suppressors are not subject to BATF permission for interstate transport like MGs, SBRs, and SBSs are, so no hassles there. So long as it is legal where it is going, it can be transported without any notification or permission requirements. Also, the great myth that BATF can search one's residence at any time as a condition of NFA ownership is completely false. They still need probable cause and a warrant, just like with anyone else.

Raleigh Glocker
07-25-2012, 08:22
The ATF can't decide that a legal trust is not an entity, so they can't ban them. However, the compromise currently being finalized is that trust applications must include a photo and fingerprints of the grantor/trustee. I'm not sure if this would apply to all trustees or not.

The other side of the compromise is that they want to do away with CLEO sign-off altogether, since it is easily and frequently by-passed through the use of trusts, anyway. To appease the LEO community, the sherriff's office will be supplied with the information on those who receive stamps from the ATF (which they already have if they sign off on your form as an individual).

A bit about "gun trusts." I've seen them, and there is NOTHING special about them as far as compliance with the law goes. They are just basic trusts trumped up with instructions on transfer, etc., that your heirs can get from the ATF upon your passing. A simple trust is all you need, and Willmaker works just fine.

Many dealers can supply you with a boilerplate trust that meets the needs of your state for free.

98LS-WON
07-25-2012, 19:03
You can fill out the appropriate paperwork and make your own.

TTex
07-26-2012, 06:48
I also have to wonder how many rounds a supressor is good for. I know there are no moving parts to wear out, but I would think carbon fouling would eventually neccesitate replacement. Anyone know how many rounds a supressor stays effective?

Yeah I figured building your own was illegal, but that didnt seem to stop those guys on Youtube. I dont think I want to be charged with a felony, that puts the price way to high! :wow: Like the OP I think I'll just keep putting my ear muffs on.

roadkill46
07-26-2012, 07:56
Quicken Willmaker w/Trust 2012 is $19.95 on Amazon. aside from the 4 cans on my trust now, i have a Gemtech Trek that is being processed as we speak. Most of mine are for rifles, we can now hunt with suppressors and unlimited mag capacity here in AZ so the coyotes better beware come Halloween! (that's when the snakes go to bed!) the trust is simple, fill in the blanks.
If you get your's in now with a trust, before they change the regs, which will take a LONG time to do, you will be good to go even if they change since you are being processed.
the NFA section only has 9 special agents that are authorized to sign off on the paperwork. A trust sometimes goes a little faster than the going rate now of 6 months for an individual since there is no fingerprint, photo, background check required of the agents. Matter of fact your new can is not even on the trust, it is just a copy of the trust with the trust certificate and the form 4 from your dealer and $200. The can is not put on the trust until after you get your tax stamp since it is not yours to put in the trust until you get the paperwork back.
ridiculous rules now. they were made so that the bad guys in the 20's and 30's could not go door to door and ask if the owners had any machine guns they could buy, thus circumventing paperwork. $200 was a lot back then and i read that with current inflation it would be like $40,000 now if the cost kept up until now!

It's the WAITING that kills you!!!!!!

rimshaker
07-26-2012, 09:05
I also have to wonder how many rounds a supressor is good for. I know there are no moving parts to wear out, but I would think carbon fouling would eventually neccesitate replacement. Anyone know how many rounds a supressor stays effective?

Yeah I figured building your own was illegal, but that didnt seem to stop those guys on Youtube. I dont think I want to be charged with a felony, that puts the price way to high! :wow: Like the OP I think I'll just keep putting my ear muffs on.

Some new suppressors nowadays are user-serviceable and can be completely taken apart for periodic cleaning. Generally the trade-off used to be between serviceability and performance (completely sealed). But suppressor technology has really stepped up recently.... a big reason why I started seriously thinking about getting one.

brisk21
07-26-2012, 09:30
I want one, but its hard to justify the cost. Maybe in a few years....

ronin.45
07-26-2012, 10:26
A trust can be made for next to nothing and Lone Wolf threaded barrels and protectors are pretty cheap.

I just saved you $500. You're welcome.

AZ Cat
07-26-2012, 11:31
Quicken Willmaker w/Trust 2012 is $19.95 on Amazon. aside from the 4 cans on my trust now, i have a Gemtech Trek that is being processed as we speak. Most of mine are for rifles, we can now hunt with suppressors and unlimited mag capacity here in AZ so the coyotes better beware come Halloween! (that's when the snakes go to bed!) the trust is simple, fill in the blanks.
If you get your's in now with a trust, before they change the regs, which will take a LONG time to do, you will be good to go even if they change since you are being processed.
the NFA section only has 9 special agents that are authorized to sign off on the paperwork. A trust sometimes goes a little faster than the going rate now of 6 months for an individual since there is no fingerprint, photo, background check required of the agents. Matter of fact your new can is not even on the trust, it is just a copy of the trust with the trust certificate and the form 4 from your dealer and $200. The can is not put on the trust until after you get your tax stamp since it is not yours to put in the trust until you get the paperwork back.
ridiculous rules now. they were made so that the bad guys in the 20's and 30's could not go door to door and ask if the owners had any machine guns they could buy, thus circumventing paperwork. $200 was a lot back then and i read that with current inflation it would be like $40,000 now if the cost kept up until now!

It's the WAITING that kills you!!!!!!

Roadkill,

Where did you hear that suppressors and unlimited mags are now legal for hunting in AZ? By coincidence I just checked the AZGFD regs last week and they specifically prohibit hunting with a suppressor. Maybe there's new or other information I'm not aware of?

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

matt_lowry123
07-26-2012, 20:06
Here's my input. Stick with the 22 cans. They're cheap, quite, and fun!!

Glockdude1
07-27-2012, 08:50
http://withfriendship.com/images/i/43374/ruger-mk-ii-ruger-mk.jpg

Fully suppressed Ruger Mk2. Shoot one of these, and you won't have trouble justifying the cost of buying/shooting a suppressed weapon.

Lots of fun.

:supergrin:

tooledws2
07-27-2012, 09:47
You can get an Osprey in .45, and then adapt it for 9mm & .40.

One can...3 calibers.

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Actually. Some people are even running a 300 blk out though that silencer with sub sonic semi auto only.

watsoncb
07-28-2012, 12:28
A while back when thinking about getting a Class III toy, I thought about a machine gun vs. a suppressor. I played with a friend's machine gun and noticed he was always out of ammo. They are fun to shoot, but it took 5 minutes to load the mags and 30 seconds to empty them. :(

Then I looked at suppressors which have a much lower cost of ownership.

Why own one?

1) They are fun to shoot. It is hard to describe but there is something about shooting a firearm that makes little to no noise.
2) My wife enjoys shooting firearms more with the can on. Less flash and noise
3) They can be used on more than one firearm. All you need is a threaded barrel and if necessary a metric thread adapter.
4) It is always fun to watch other folks at the range when you screw the suppressor on... what the heck does he have? Say, can I shoot it?

As for the life of the suppressor, GemTeck has a special to rebuild their .22 suppressors.

Glockdude1
07-28-2012, 14:01
A while back when thinking about getting a Class III toy, I thought about a machine gun vs. a suppressor. I played with a friend's machine gun and noticed he was always out of ammo. They are fun to shoot, but it took 5 minutes to load the mags and 30 seconds to empty them. :(



Buy more magazines

Re-load

Buy ammo in bulk when possible/on sale

:supergrin:

JadeRaven
07-30-2012, 21:27
Like others said, if you want it you want it, if you don't you don't.

You can only shoot one gun at a time. Why does anyone want to have two guns? Why does someone need a Glock when he could get a decent .22 for hundreds less? Etc. etc.

PlasticGuy
07-31-2012, 06:32
I can't justify a centerfire pistol suppressor. They make the gun too big to conceal, and aren't quiet enough to really fool anybody. They are cool, so I understand why people buy them. Not worth it to me though.

I do have a .223 suppressor and a 7.62 suppressor though, and they are both worth it to me. At the ranges I shoot with them, the use of a can makes me very difficult to pinpoint for anything in the vacinity of the target. Very cool, and practical for the way I use them.

The one that everybody should own is a .22 suppressor though. I use mine constantly! I thought I would use it the most on my threaded Browning Buckmark. That has not been the case though. I have actually used it far more on my threaded Savage Mark II bolt action. That thing is so quiet that my neighbors literally can't hear anything, and I can hit a nickel with every shot at 25 yards. The possibilities are endless. Oh, and it's cheap. The can cost me a little less than $400, and would have been cheaper if I hadn't picked one that I can also use on my .17 HMR. With a tax stamp, that puts the price at just under $600 total. It's a bargain for how much I use it.

ak103k
07-31-2012, 16:08
I can't justify a centerfire pistol suppressor. They make the gun too big to conceal, and aren't quiet enough to really fool anybody.
I dont see concealment really being an issue, but it could be addressed with a properly built holster if you wanted to pursue it.

While they arent "movie" quiet, they are quiet enough to work as intended. My AAC Eco-9 using 147 grain Winchester Rangers and run "wet" is pretty quiet, and sounds about like a solid car door being closed. With some of my reloads that hover around 1000fps, it sounds like a nail gun when run dry.

When I shot that critter the other week in my carport, I was using the 147's, but the can was dry. My wife and kid were in the room adjoining it, about 10 feet away, and really thought I dropped something on the floor and didnt think they were gun shots. They know what unsuppressed gunshots from that same place sound like and my wife lets me know about it if I dont warn her first. :)

Now my .223's do sound like a gun went off, although you dont really get it at the gun, as there is really no muzzle blast, but the round going down range is still pretty loud.

With any of them, there are differing conditions that may make things better or worse. Weather, temperature, humidity, structures, different ammo, etc, can all make differences in how effective they are. Regardless, most of the time, the difference is enough that you dont need ear plugs, even with sensitive ears.