Ladies, would this "pick up line" offend you? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Batesmotel
07-24-2012, 13:35
You are at a club. Several guys hit on you and your friends. A nice looking , well dressed guy comes up and hands you a business card (well known local company) and says he would like to take you to dinner. You choose place and time. He will just meet you there and you can leave separately.

A friend did this and just received several nasty emails from her and her friends saying this was a terrible way to meet her..

We are just stupid guys but how was this offensive?

BTW the guy is 47 and the club caters to a 35-50s crowd. She appeared to be about his age and was not wearing a ring.

cowboywannabe
07-24-2012, 14:05
he should forget the tramp.

with the law suit slap happy society we are in today there is no way a man with money should pursue a woman. let them come to him.

he was playing ti safe, she showed her lack of class with her e-mails.

Just1More
07-24-2012, 17:03
Sounds like a nut-job.

Mrs.Cicero
07-24-2012, 19:09
I completely fail to see what is offensive in that. I would have said maybe that's because it has been 20 years since I was single. But I fit in that age range, so I don't know what her problem was. Unless she was just a tramp looking for a one-night stand and when he said they would leave separately, she felt dissed or something. That's all I've got.

Mrs.Cicero

lno762
07-24-2012, 22:59
I don't see any problem with that.
Sounds like a well executed, thoughtful approach.
Women be crazy...
Lol @ posting this in "Women Issues" though!! I guess this is the place to get the female perspective.

Victoriagotagun
07-25-2012, 20:03
Did he just hand her the card and that was it or did he try to get to know her better after he handed her the card?

Lone_Wolfe
07-26-2012, 01:32
I'd consider this about the most polite, respectful, and non-threatening approach I've ever seen. If I was at all attracted to him I'd definitely take him up on dinner.

kirgi08
07-26-2012, 01:42
:mememe: :cowboy:

NEOH212
07-26-2012, 02:41
Ladies, would this "pick up line" offend you?

Let me put it this way.

Only a tramp would be offended by a gentleman.

:wavey:

Sargent
07-26-2012, 02:42
Depends..... If he was a plastic surgeon or worked at a weight loss clinic.....

I could see where she could get bent out of shape.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kirgi08
07-26-2012, 02:55
Let me put it this way.

Only a tramp would be offended by a gentleman.

:wavey:

Query,would a man holding/opening a door fer ya be offensive?.'08.:dunno:

BonnieB
07-29-2012, 18:00
What the gentleman did was not awful, but he could have hung out a while, talked with her and gotten to know her a bit first, before asking her out.

IMHO, an invitation to coffee or lunch would be more appropriate, as it's easier to cut it off quickly if the people aren't compatible. Dinner is for a second date. Never ask a woman to meet you alone somewhere after dark (even if you know she might be carrying). He should ask her to pick a place she's comfortable with.

NEOH212
07-29-2012, 19:55
Query

No, I'm straight!

:rofl:

NEOH212
07-29-2012, 19:57
Query,would a man holding/opening a door fer ya be offensive?.'08.:dunno:

To answer your question (all jokes aside) No I wouldn't be offended by a man holding/opening a door for me.

I'd be flattered. When a guy does that for me it tells me that he's not a self centered jerk and actually has some consideration outside of his own.

(Or else he just wants to......Oh never mind.) :whistling:

NEOH212
07-29-2012, 19:57
I'd consider this about the most polite, respectful, and non-threatening approach I've ever seen. If I was at all attracted to him I'd definitely take him up on dinner.

:thumbsup::agree:

Lone_Wolfe
07-29-2012, 20:04
Query,would a man holding/opening a door fer ya be offensive?.'08.:dunno:

Not in the least.

BonnieB
07-30-2012, 14:23
On the door opening question: When a gentleman opens a door for me, I always smile brightlly and say "THANKyou sir! Chivalry is NOT dead". And go about my business. It's always good to reward nice mannners.

(To head off the question, yes, I do hold open doors for men, if they have lots to carry or to prevent the door from slamming in their face. What's good for the goose...)

janice6
07-30-2012, 14:50
On the door opening question: When a gentleman opens a door for me, I always smile brightlly and say "THANKyou sir! Chivalry is NOT dead". And go about my business. It's always good to reward nice mannners.

(To head off the question, yes, I do hold open doors for men, if they have lots to carry or to prevent the door from slamming in their face. What's good for the goose...)

I always hold a door when it's appropriate, for anyone.

I make it a point of thanking people (and especially women) for holding a door for me. I also appreciate it.

My father taught me many things, this is only one.

BobbyT
07-30-2012, 15:27
Offering to wine and dine her without her putting forth a single bit of effort?

She could be nuts, or just turned off by the sheer submissiveness of the offer, but either way the guy needs to stop supplicating.

He'd be better off doing the complete opposite: no card, no introduction, actually stay and chat, no mention of taking her out, no spending a dime on her.

Cat91
07-31-2012, 19:36
Interesting approach, but a little impersonal, sort of like speed-dating. I'd be flattered at the approach, but unless he'd tried to get to know me a little before whipping out the business card, I'd conclude that he was only interested in a quickie and he'd never hear from me. I certainly would not give him an e-mail hard time, tho.

On the other hand, if he looked like George Clooney, and wasn't wearing a wedding ring or recent tan line on thst hand, I *would* be tempted....

BonnieB
07-31-2012, 19:41
Well, at least if he had a business card, we're reasonably sure he actually has a job.

6StringGeek
07-31-2012, 20:00
She probably wondered how many cards he handed out that night.

frizz
07-31-2012, 20:11
Query,would a man holding/opening a door fer ya be offensive?.'08.:dunno:
This is something that has been drilled on by a small minority of the whacko fringe feminists who look for ways to be offended, and don't know (or care) what most women want.

You know the type. They will argue that all sex is rape. Yes, there are some feminists who really think so.

To veer this to the firearms area...

These women probably champion female independence, but would screech in horror at the though of a woman using a gun to defend herself.

Batesmotel
07-31-2012, 20:42
Did he just hand her the card and that was it or did he try to get to know her better after he handed her the card?

Late in the evening.
Several guys had hit on them.
He is 4 years divorced and just getting back into dating.

So he just handed her a card and invited her to dinner at her convenience.

He was bombarded with nasty emails and phone calls.

Batesmotel
07-31-2012, 20:44
Well, at least if he had a business card, we're reasonably sure he actually has a job.

Great job. Well known local firm. Easy to check up on him first.

He doesn't get all the hate.

ChiefWPD
08-01-2012, 13:21
Late in the evening.
Several guys had hit on them.
He is 4 years divorced and just getting back into dating.

So he just handed her a card and invited her to dinner at her convenience.

He was bombarded with nasty emails and phone calls.

If that's the whole story, and "He was bombarded with nasty emails and phone calls." then, in my opinion, he dodged a bullet.

Brian Lee
08-01-2012, 14:31
Handing someone a business card is what you do with new business contacts. Handing one to a lady you wanted to meet for purely personal reasons is just plain tacky and I've always laughed at guys who do it.

90 percent of them are just trying to pretend to have a better job & more money than they really do. Guys who really do have good jobs and money usually have the self confidence dispense with such cheap-ass efforts at impression making.

But of course the particular guy the OP is talking about may only represent the "tacky" exception rather than the "phoney" rule. Remember I said than only about 90 percent of them are phoney's.

HKLovingIT
08-02-2012, 13:49
MAN-TERVENTION...IN...3...2...1...Print This Out For Your Friend...Good Lord.

RULE # 1 About Talking To Women:

If they dig you and your look or something about you, and they make the 5 second visual judgement call that "Yeah I could see myself sleeping with that guy." You have to try very hard for them to think you are "creepy" right out of the gate.

(Unfortunately many guys manage to accomplish this - face palm - snatch defeat from the jaws of victory)

Because she finds you attractive, you will be given an opportunity to verbally interact with her without getting immediately blown out. As long as you don't mess that up by treating the conversation like a job interview and talking too much about boring crap, having bad breath or doing something too gross, you're on your way.

The hotter the woman thinks you are, the more outrageous and overtly sexual your talk to her can be and the more leeway you have to not be the world's greatest conversationalist and make a few verbal mistakes.

However, if your friend is just getting back into dating, go easy there partner. There is a difference between flirty fun/sexy and flirty gross and creepy. Where that line is, is different with every woman and locale. If you are dealing with a hardened club rat in NYC the line is different than if you are at a church social in the Bible belt. He has to be socially aware of that, but still, better to be a little too flirty than timid and come off as a milquetoast or bland.

You have to know how to flirt, no exception. What your friend did was not flirting. Flirting includes a sexual edge to it.

That doesn't mean be a gross pig, though that can work if you are very socially astute at reading the level of interest, (chuckle), rather it is that you are being direct about the fact that you are a man, she is a woman and you are interested in her. It is supposed to be fun for you and her, not a major cardiac stress test. If it's not fun for you and her either she's not interested, or you're doing it wrong. Learn for next time.

You may still get shot down. No big deal. You're not going to appeal to every woman on the planet (like me) so don't get butt hurt about it. If you get shot down, take it like a man. No need for insults or other boorish behavior.

[B]The Flip Side:

Any guy, who is a stranger to them, that they size up and make the 5 second judgement call that "no way would they sleep with that guy" will be classified as "creepy" by her and her friends if he does anything other than hold a door for her, or buy her a free drink and walk off, or otherwise refuses to remain invisible and completely asexual, etc.

If he persists and talks to them in a way that suggests he would like to interact with her in a social/dating/sexual/romantic way, she may get her anger on at him. More mature ladies with some class, will politely give him a face saving brush off or cold shoulder.

If you are not a stranger to them and are perhaps even a member of their social circle, yet are not judged attractive to her/them, you might get the "let's just be friends" or "I don't want to ruin our friendship." Pay attention to that. She's not kidding. Woe to you. When you get put in the friend box, it is a Herculean task to escape it and be seen again by her as a man/sexual being.

Therefore, I personally do not ever interact with a woman under the guise of being her friend and then maybe if I do enough errands for her, she'll you know...giggity. Nope.

If I am interested, I make my intentions known. If she's not interested, cool. But if I were to sulk around and pretend to be her friend and I really had the ulterior motive of wanting to be more than friends, it would be pretty sackless on my part.

All that time spent trying to "be friends" with a woman you are secretly interested in, but who has no interest in you, laboring under the vain hope that if you buy her enough Frappacinos and pickup her favorite cupcakes, that one day she would "wake up" and see how awesome you are and fall madly in love with you, is bunk. Your time could be better spent getting dates and having a real girlfriend instead of a friend-girl. That kind of stuff only works out in romantic-comedies, which life is not.

Younger chicks with no manners, or no concept of empathy (90% of under 30 women in a club), will say something insulting right to his face or try to blow him out for 'daring' to approach her.

Let me give you a practical example of this all happening with a polite woman:

Woman is sitting in a club. A man she noticed on the way in, and who she thinks is attractive makes his way over to her and says "Hi, can I buy you a drink?" [which you should never do by the way] She's going to be all smiles, open up her body language and be receptive to him, and continue to do so until he messes it up with the words that come out of his mouth. Even then, because she thinks he's attractive she'll cut him slack.

Woman is sitting in a club. A man that she has zero attraction interest in makes his way over to her and says "Hi, can I buy you a drink?" [which you should never do by the way] Her reaction is:

a. "No thank you."
b. "No thank you, I'm just waiting for my friends."
c. "No thank you, I'm meeting someone." [as in, not you.]


Why?

It's not the ladies' fault, so don't take it personally.

They get hit on by guys all the time so they make these quick judgements and develop ways to give guys the brush off with the least amount of conflict. You have to understand that women have been dealing with guys hitting on them since they were sixteen. They have had to develop methods to diffuse it and get rid of guys that they are not interested in.

As I said, the classier ladies will give everyone a polite and face saving exit, and not crap on the guy for trying. These ladies are referred to by others as charming and warm. Unless the guy is just too socially inept to take the hint, then sometimes the only way to get him to go away is to get a little verbally ugly, but women with class and manners prefer not to go there as option A.

The environment also plays a part. Women in a club, in a group, that have already been hit on all night by guys. Can be tough to pull off. The same women in a less uptight environment could be just fine. You wouldn't think clubs would be uptight since ostensibly people go there for fun and to meet people, but a lot of times they are.

Also don't forget there are female dorks and social ree-tahds. Your friend could have been fine, and the woman was just a social dork. Aspie.

Your bud's' approach had some positives:

1. Confidence.
2. Direct Approach.
3. He actually took a shower and made the effort to show up which beat out 60% of other men.
4. Once he got there he actually had the stones to walk up to and cold approach women in a social setting which could potentially result in his public embarrassment. Good. He just beat out 90% of other guys who just shuffle around on the margins too scared to approach.

Negatives:

1. He did not give the woman an emotional or fun reason to interact with him. He was too business like and as Brian Lee said above, it was kind of a tacky ploy. He had confidence to approach, which is good, but not enough confidence to stand there and have a conversation and flirt. Bad.

Advice: don't sweat it, just do it. He'll learn by doing and failing and getting better and more natural at it as long as he can self evaluate where the interaction might have gone off track. If he really wants to be bold, he can set a rule for himself: He may not talk about work, the weather or the news when out meeting women. Yeah, we just upped the difficulty level.

2. He likely did not look to determine and pick up on non-verbal cues as to whether this woman was interested in talking with him. And yeah, if they are interested to meet you, they give off signals if you are not too thick to notice. Being aware of such things increases your chances of a positive interaction a hundred fold versus just blindly going up to every woman in the club and hoping to "get lucky". Lucks got nothing to do with it.

No woman wants to be thought of as being the equivalent of a scratch off lottery ticket by some guy hoping to get lucky. A woman would rather you capture her heart through your qualities and your social skills rather than you just happened to "get lucky" with her.

How do you think that makes her feel? "Hey Jimbo, how did you guys meet?" "Dunno Billy-Bob, guess I just got lucky!" Yee-haw!!!!!

Don't be the guy seen going around the room to all the women in the room handing out cards. It reeks of social desperation.

While women do appreciate a man who can demonstrate he isn't a tool around women, they also appreciate a man who can demonstrate selectivity in the female company he chooses to pursue and keep. A guy who indiscriminately hits on everything in his line of sight wearing boobs is a guy who is demonstrating his low value to everyone, especially the women present.

3. He might have been better off either introducing himself to the group and chatting socially for a bit (take the temperature) or finding a moment when she was not in a group (tough) and approaching his selected woman of interest and initiating a normal flirty social interaction.

4. If a woman wants to know about your job, she'll ask you. Putting that out there first like it's his only good quality or the only reason he can come up with for a woman to interact with him, "Look at me! I'm a good provider!" is not exactly known for inducing swoons of erotic delight in the lady folk.

Your friend might want to give some thought to being contrarian. What do I mean? I mean that if the strategy of every man (his competition) in that club that he likes to go to is to show up in a suit, stand around timidly staring at the girls across the room and stress their "good provider/good job" credentials he might have more success with another approach.

His chances might improve if instead of trying to show his bank account credentials he were instead to demonstrate those aspects of his personality, lifestyle and experiences that would make him a fun and exciting guy to get to know. It would help if he was actually a fun and exciting guy. To be sure, a woman you just met would rather hear about your latest expedition to the mountains than to hear about how Ruth at the office is such a stickler for paperwork and you can't stand her.

The fictional character Ward Cleaver was a great husband and father and a man to be respected for his judgement and steadiness of character. However, I would bet that in the fictional world of Leave It To Beaver, when Ward met the future Mrs. Cleaver the first time there was something fun and exciting about him (hot) that she found irresistible that made her say yes to that first date. So, less Ward Cleaver and more Chuck Norris.

5. He shouldn't be asking women he just met at a club and doesn't know from Adam or Eve, as the case may be, out on formal dates. He should make it easier on himself and the women by simply concentrating on having a fun and flirty interaction, getting her phone number and following up with her "sometime next week" , period. That's enough for the first interaction.

When he gets more advanced he can move up to making out in the parking lot outside the club the same night, but for now getting a phone number and leaving the interaction on a positive note would be a big improvement. Lolz.

Get her phone number during a high point in the conversation. Don't wait until you have nothing left to talk about and then ask for it when the convo has petered out and it's all awkward. Duh. Get it while she's laughing with you and having a good time. Wait until at least five minutes in or so. Asking right away is weird and looks like you have no interest in her other than getting a numbah. Waiting too long, you'll probably screw it up. 5-10 minutes in is okay.

Also, don't be a insecure dork and call her number right then and there to make sure she gave you a real one. If she didn't, who cares? Just operate under the assumption she gave you a real number. If not, laugh about it later.

Have an exit and be the first to leave: "It was really nice talking with you but I have to get back to my friends. I'll give you a ring next week." Keep it simple.

Stick around though if it's going great and you're in no danger of stalling out or screwing it up, or if she gives you good signals like touching your arm, or leg, leaning into you, puppy dog eyes, playing with her hair, playfully slapping your arm. Laughing at your dumb jokes. Ya know, she's letting you know she likes you, ya lunk.

If you see her talking to other men after you go do whatever you're doing, don't act weird and butt-hurt. She's not your girl, caveman.

When you call her is up to you. I don't think it matters. Next day, two days, three days? Up to you. I would tend to say that the younger she is the longer you wait, but do call her that same week, between M-TH about 9:00 PM is good. People are usually just chilling out at 9:00 PM. Earlier she might be shopping, doing dinner, whatever. Later she might be in the shower, going to bed, etc.

You can't call her on Friday, Saturday or Sunday in an attempt to setup a date because generally you'll come off as a loser with nothing going on. For example, don't call her 11:37 PM Friday: "Hey what are you doing tonight?" Ummm. If you have the acumen to pull that off, you don't need to be reading this getting started stuff.

When you do make the call to her, you're going have a plan. This concept of his of "Here is my card, you have an open invitation for dinner anytime you want.", is weak. What he's really saying is "My God I'm lonely and I have no social life. I am at your beck and call if you will give me a slice of your attention." Bad move.

Instead, he's going to call her, talk for no more than a few minutes of light, fun conversation and then he will offer her an opportunity to join him doing something. It doesn't matter what it is. If she likes you, she won't care. She just wants to hang out with you some more.

You're the man, so you make the plan and offer, with specifics. She decides to accept. "Hey, next Thursday evening I'm going to take you to this new place I found. They make a great - whatever..." Her: "That sounds great. What time?"

See the words I chose above? "I'm going to take you to this great place..." Sounds a lot more decisive and confident than "So, uh, um, you think maybe, um, you'd want to get together sometime?" Her: "I guess, what did you have in mind?" You: "I dunno, what do you like to do?" SLAP, I just SLAPPED YOU. Don't do that.

If she digs you, short of a family medical emergency, or a better offer from another guy she's interested in, she'll find a way to make the date happen or she will offer an alternate date if she can't make it. "I can't do Thursday, I have to give my elderly mom a sponge bath, can we meet up Wednesday instead?" Your answer: "Yes."

If you get voice mail: Leave a brief message with your phone number and name. I'll tell you what to say so your friend doesn't screw it up: "Hi/Hey, it's Reginald, give me a ring back when you have time to chat 555-1212." Don't talk all fast and nervous on the message. Even if you do, if she likes you, she won't really care. The point is don't leave some psycho 5 minute monologue about how much you liked talking to her last Saturday at the club and how you really felt you guys "had a connection." Barf.

She knows who you are. She has caller-id. If she wants to talk to you she'll pick up or call you back. If she doesn't call you back, you can call her one more time a couple days later. After that - take the hint.

So here it is:

1. Take a shower and show up.
2. Don't be a wuss and be interesting.
3. Don't be weird, be social and interact with people.
4. Approach women.
5. Get a conversation going about something fun.
6. If she seems interested in you "that way" be flirty and fun. Easy Tiger.
7. Get her phone number during a high moment, excuse yourself and don't be butt-hurt.
8. Anything else that happens that night is bonus points for your friend and a good story he gets to tell.
9. Call her in the next couple of days and offer her an opportunity to spend time with you. Don't stalk.
10. Get married and have 2000 babies.

Now even with your friends tactical errors...

and his approach strategy that was not the greatest, nor does it sound like it was very fun or social for the women he wanted to interact with, there was no need for them to act like he spit on one of them. Sheesh. Then they turn around and want to know where all the "good guys" are. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

They are right where you left them ladies. Back in your twenties. Or they are at the social club standing around looking slightly awkward. You just don't notice them. Giggity.

Tell your buddy that he needs to learn how to flirt. Good job on his confidence to approach, now he needs to be fun when interacting. He also should not worry, everyone gets blown out. It happens. Sometimes a chick just doesn't dig you no matter how awesome you know you are. :supergrin:

As for them bombarding him with hate mail and messages. The Chief is correct, he dodged a bullet. She sounds like a BPD, Narcissistic drama queen. It's not enough that she got to hold court at the club, now she wants to bleat and shriek to all her friends about "Can you believe the nerve of this guy!!!!" "OMG!!!! Like Totally!!!!"

To heck with her and her low class friends. I can bet you dollars to donuts that that same women (if she was 35-ish) will be dying to still be on men's sexual radar when she is 45 and up. And if she is 45 and up and still acting like an entitled twenty-something, she really did do him a favor by showing her colors up front.

[U]Final Tid Bit:

When you ask women for dating advice you will often be told to "just be yourself and be nice." That is in fact perfect advice from one woman to another. The ladies are not meaning to deceive you with this advice nor are they trying to give you bad advice, but you are not translating it properly to guy talk so that you can understand. Let me help you.

What they really mean is: "If you are a guy that I find attractive and am interested in, please just be nice and be yourself." or said another way, "Gosh I think you're really cute, I hope you're mostly normal. Please, please be normal and nice." Make more sense now?

Be aware also that the word "nice" might confuse you. Nice does not mean that she finds a guy who always does what she wants, is supplicating, caters to every emotional whim, is a pushover or a pansy attractive.

What "nice" means is a guy who can stand up for himself and sometimes is a bit of a jerk to everyone in the world except her. Even then, the word "No" uttered from your lips in a steady masculine voice while gazing mischievously into her eyes can be quite the turn on for her. You see, through the mystical power of her love she will transform your rough edges and tame your wild heart. Hehe.

However, if you are a guy that she does not find attractive and she is not interested in "that way", no amount of "being nice" or "just being yourself" is going to change that fact. No man on Earth ever "nice guy'ed" his way into a woman's heart nor made her quiver with anticipation at his touch.

In other words, "You're a really great guy, but I think we should just be friends." You think "If I'm so great, why doesn't she want to be more than friends?" Duh. As explained earlier, that's her polite way of saying "Thanks, but no thanks."

Finally, that brings me to...Married guys, God bless 'em.

Married guys will also give you lots of dating advice. Unfortunately, most don't remember much of anything about women that is of use to you. They especially like to tell divorced guys how much the divorced guy doesn't know about women since the divorced guy is divorced after all. Ask most married guys how they wound up with the Mrs. and they will likely respond: "Just got lucky I guess!"

Married guys, who have been married and have been out of the dating scene for longer than five years, know a lot about ONE woman in particular, and they know some about being married, but not much about the state of the current dating scene as it is today.

When and if you think about getting married again it's okay to ask them for advice on how to make sure you're making a good decision or how to captain the ship. In fact, they should be the first guys you talk to so they can warn you off the idea. :rofl: (I kid.) Otherwise, asking a dude who has been married to the same woman for twenty-five years how to go about looking for and dating a new Mrs. Right in the dating market as it is today, not back in the 80s, is not very productive.

It makes for a lot of "Aww, that's so cool how you guys met!" moments and heart warming stories, but it's not particularly instructional to you on how to go into a nightclub and navigate the shark filled waters in 2012.

Ahh, dating. It's just like the Discovery Channel, but with a veneer of civilization painted over it and words on top of the visual cues. Ya know, just to make the whole thing more challenging. Good Luck and welcome to 2012! [Always carry, never tell. Hehehe]

Side note: How the heck did I wind up in this sub-forum? Oh, I clicked on recent posts from the front page.

Well, hello ladies...:cool:...back to General Glocking to argue about extractors. Yee-haw!!!!

Misty02
08-07-2012, 03:43
Query,would a man holding/opening a door fer ya be offensive?.'08.:dunno:

Quite the contrary! I enjoy being treated like a lady, having a gentleman hold/open the door for me never fails to bring a thankful smile. :)

As mentioned by other ladies already, I too hold/open the door for others if they’re close at the time or will wait for someone that has their hands are full. I also rush to get to the door when the UPS or FedEx person (regardless of gender) is walking to the door filled with packages.

Regarding the OP, I don’t see why anyone would have been offended with the approach you mention unless there was more to it. You mention there were comments exchanged, after the fact, of displeasure with the approach. What did the woman mention she found offensive?

.

AZL
08-07-2012, 18:50
Let me put it this way.

Only a tramp would be offended by a gentleman.

:wavey:

NEOH....that is probably one of the MOST insightful comments I have ever read on ANY subject.

You just got a "tip of my hat" and and "WELL SAID MA'AM" award.

AZL
08-07-2012, 18:55
Here is an observation I would like to toss in:

I am just a few months shy of my 45th birthday. I have been happily married for 11 years (first and ONLY wife).

Anyway...

I was raised "cowboy proper" as my Grammy (who also was the one who raised me) would say.

I was taught from day-one that women were to be called "ma'am" and that a man, worthy of the name, was unfailingly polite to a lady, and was always willing to lend a hand.

NOW....I have followed this pattern of behavior my whole life...and over the last decade or so, I seem to get "I don't need A MAN to hold a door for me!" or something of that nature more than a few times.

What gives?

Am I a dinosaur?

Should I wear my pants below my butt and call women the b-word?

I am TOTALLY confugalated. No...I am NOT looking to date...as I mentioned I am happily married (to a cop).

I just want to know the new rules.

Mrs.Cicero
08-07-2012, 19:35
Here is an observation I would like to toss in:
I am just a few months shy of my 45th birthday. I have been happily married for 11 years (first and ONLY wife).
Anyway...
I was raised "cowboy proper" as my Grammy (who also was the one who raised me) would say.
I was taught from day-one that women were to be called "ma'am" and that a man, worthy of the name, was unfailingly polite to a lady, and was always willing to lend a hand.
NOW....I have followed this pattern of behavior my whole life...and over the last decade or so, I seem to get "I don't need A MAN to hold a door for me!" or something of that nature more than a few times.
What gives?
Am I a dinosaur?
Should I wear my pants below my butt and call women the b-word?
I am TOTALLY confugalated. No...I am NOT looking to date...as I mentioned I am happily married (to a cop).
I just want to know the new rules.

It depends on whether you want respect from women with class, or simply silence from the feminazi types. I appreciate having doors held for me no matter who holds them - men, women, children. I was taught that I should always hold the door for the person after me because that was good manners, and I assume that is why anyone does it for me. Only the feminists think there is some underlying insult in a man holding a door for them.

Mrs.Cicero

AZL
08-07-2012, 19:53
It depends on whether you want respect from women with class, or simply silence from the feminazi types. I appreciate having doors held for me no matter who holds them - men, women, children. I was taught that I should always hold the door for the person after me because that was good manners, and I assume that is why anyone does it for me. Only the feminists think there is some underlying insult in a man holding a door for them.

Mrs.Cicero

HA! Thank you.

No, trust me, I would NEVER wear my britches below my butt, and never act like a jerk to a lady. It just seems that any more a man is damned if he does, and damned if he don't...all in all, I prefer to stay on my porch like an old faithful hound dog.

Arc Angel
08-07-2012, 20:04
You are at a club. Several guys hit on you and your friends. A nice looking , well dressed guy comes up and hands you a business card (well known local company) and says he would like to take you to dinner. You choose place and time. He will just meet you there and you can leave separately.

A friend did this and just received several nasty emails from her and her friends saying this was a terrible way to meet her..

We are just stupid guys but how was this offensive?

BTW the guy is 47 and the club caters to a 35-50s crowd. She appeared to be about his age and was not wearing a ring.

:upeyes: Oh, boy! You and your friend actually do come across like you belong on the Internet. (Have you tried GT's Religious Issues Forum yet?) :supergrin: So, in an effort to bring a little light into your dark and dreary world, here goes:

Words that quickly come to mind: inept, lame, inane, and cowardly - Yes, cowardly! A real man wouldn't stoop to such insipid subterfuge; and especially not when the woman was standing right there in front of him, safely surrounded by her friends', 'protective cocoon'. (But, THAT is exactly what your friend foolishly attempted to circumvent rather than to win over, now; isn't it!) :freak:

Your friend's approach reminds me of an obstetrician who, rather than waiting for the baby to be born, just reaches inside and rips the little sucker out! This clumsy social approach also violates the very first rule of male/female attraction:

NO MATTER HOW RICH, WELL DRESSED, OR HANDSOME YOU ARE - NO MATTER WHAT CAR YOU DRIVE - NO MATURE WOMAN IS EVER GOING TO BE ATTRACTED TO YOU IF YOU LACK EITHER DEFERENCE OR SELF-CONFIDENCE.

Quite frankly, you - or should I say, 'your friend' - didn't give her the necessary time to draw any of these very important conclusions; and that anemic, 'lets meet on neutral ground and at my expense' approach flat-out violates everything a mature woman is actually attracted to in a man. Apparently your friend, also, completely fails to realize that he treated this woman, 'like a piece of meat'. Your friend should have shown the personal courage to freely admit his interest in this woman; he should have stood his, 'social ground', and thoughtfully worked to engage her in one-on-one conversation

('Great opening lines' DO NOT matter; and, if necessary, he should have been ready to include the entire group of women into the conversation. Why? Because THAT is what a brave, genuinely self-confident man would have done.)

I'll tell you a little secret about attracting women: They'll all tell you that it's very important how a man looks, dresses, and appears; BUT, truth be known, what a woman really cares about is how she FEELS about a particular man; and that lameass approach your friend is using doesn't allow a woman to fill in the, 'empty boxes' on the emotional checklist every (mature) female carries around with her inside her head.

So, what is the final mistake your friend made? I offer this to you from more than 50 years of selling things, quite successfully, to people. HE BEGAN HIS, 'PITCH' WITHOUT ANTICIPATING THE, 'NO'. (You think about it; I'm not going to explain any further.) Lest you think that I've, now, 'dumped' all over your friend, I'm going to close this out with the reminder, SOMETIMES BEING TOLD, 'NO' CAN TURN OUT TO BE A VERY GOOD THING! ;)

fairtomidland
08-07-2012, 20:06
MAN-TERVENTION...IN...3...2...1...Print This Out For Your Friend...Good Lord.

RULE # 1 About Talking To Women:

If they dig you and your look or something about you, and they make the 5 second visual judgement call that "Yeah I could see myself sleeping with that guy." You have to try very hard for them to think you are "creepy" right out of the gate.

(Unfortunately many guys manage to accomplish this - face palm - snatch defeat from the jaws of victory)

Because she finds you attractive, you will be given an opportunity to verbally interact with her without getting immediately blown out. As long as you don't mess that up by treating the conversation like a job interview and talking too much about boring crap, having bad breath or doing something too gross, you're on your way.

The hotter the woman thinks you are, the more outrageous and overtly sexual your talk to her can be and the more leeway you have to not be the world's greatest conversationalist and make a few verbal mistakes.

However, if your friend is just getting back into dating, go easy there partner. There is a difference between flirty fun/sexy and flirty gross and creepy. Where that line is, is different with every woman and locale. If you are dealing with a hardened club rat in NYC the line is different than if you are at a church social in the Bible belt. He has to be socially aware of that, but still, better to be a little too flirty than timid and come off as a milquetoast or bland.

You have to know how to flirt, no exception. What your friend did was not flirting. Flirting includes a sexual edge to it.

That doesn't mean be a gross pig, though that can work if you are very socially astute at reading the level of interest, (chuckle), rather it is that you are being direct about the fact that you are a man, she is a woman and you are interested in her. It is supposed to be fun for you and her, not a major cardiac stress test. If it's not fun for you and her either she's not interested, or you're doing it wrong. Learn for next time.

You may still get shot down. No big deal. You're not going to appeal to every woman on the planet (like me) so don't get butt hurt about it. If you get shot down, take it like a man. No need for insults or other boorish behavior.

[B]The Flip Side:

Any guy, who is a stranger to them, that they size up and make the 5 second judgement call that "no way would they sleep with that guy" will be classified as "creepy" by her and her friends if he does anything other than hold a door for her, or buy her a free drink and walk off, or otherwise refuses to remain invisible and completely asexual, etc.

If he persists and talks to them in a way that suggests he would like to interact with her in a social/dating/sexual/romantic way, she may get her anger on at him. More mature ladies with some class, will politely give him a face saving brush off or cold shoulder.

If you are not a stranger to them and are perhaps even a member of their social circle, yet are not judged attractive to her/them, you might get the "let's just be friends" or "I don't want to ruin our friendship." Pay attention to that. She's not kidding. Woe to you. When you get put in the friend box, it is a Herculean task to escape it and be seen again by her as a man/sexual being.

Therefore, I personally do not ever interact with a woman under the guise of being her friend and then maybe if I do enough errands for her, she'll you know...giggity. Nope.

If I am interested, I make my intentions known. If she's not interested, cool. But if I were to sulk around and pretend to be her friend and I really had the ulterior motive of wanting to be more than friends, it would be pretty sackless on my part.

All that time spent trying to "be friends" with a woman you are secretly interested in, but who has no interest in you, laboring under the vain hope that if you buy her enough Frappacinos and pickup her favorite cupcakes, that one day she would "wake up" and see how awesome you are and fall madly in love with you, is bunk. Your time could be better spent getting dates and having a real girlfriend instead of a friend-girl. That kind of stuff only works out in romantic-comedies, which life is not.

Younger chicks with no manners, or no concept of empathy (90% of under 30 women in a club), will say something insulting right to his face or try to blow him out for 'daring' to approach her.

Let me give you a practical example of this all happening with a polite woman:

Woman is sitting in a club. A man she noticed on the way in, and who she thinks is attractive makes his way over to her and says "Hi, can I buy you a drink?" [which you should never do by the way] She's going to be all smiles, open up her body language and be receptive to him, and continue to do so until he messes it up with the words that come out of his mouth. Even then, because she thinks he's attractive she'll cut him slack.

Woman is sitting in a club. A man that she has zero attraction interest in makes his way over to her and says "Hi, can I buy you a drink?" [which you should never do by the way] Her reaction is:

a. "No thank you."
b. "No thank you, I'm just waiting for my friends."
c. "No thank you, I'm meeting someone." [as in, not you.]


Why?

It's not the ladies' fault, so don't take it personally.

They get hit on by guys all the time so they make these quick judgements and develop ways to give guys the brush off with the least amount of conflict. You have to understand that women have been dealing with guys hitting on them since they were sixteen. They have had to develop methods to diffuse it and get rid of guys that they are not interested in.

As I said, the classier ladies will give everyone a polite and face saving exit, and not crap on the guy for trying. These ladies are referred to by others as charming and warm. Unless the guy is just too socially inept to take the hint, then sometimes the only way to get him to go away is to get a little verbally ugly, but women with class and manners prefer not to go there as option A.

The environment also plays a part. Women in a club, in a group, that have already been hit on all night by guys. Can be tough to pull off. The same women in a less uptight environment could be just fine. You wouldn't think clubs would be uptight since ostensibly people go there for fun and to meet people, but a lot of times they are.

Also don't forget there are female dorks and social ree-tahds. Your friend could have been fine, and the woman was just a social dork. Aspie.

Your bud's' approach had some positives:

1. Confidence.
2. Direct Approach.
3. He actually took a shower and made the effort to show up which beat out 60% of other men.
4. Once he got there he actually had the stones to walk up to and cold approach women in a social setting which could potentially result in his public embarrassment. Good. He just beat out 90% of other guys who just shuffle around on the margins too scared to approach.

Negatives:

1. He did not give the woman an emotional or fun reason to interact with him. He was too business like and as Brian Lee said above, it was kind of a tacky ploy. He had confidence to approach, which is good, but not enough confidence to stand there and have a conversation and flirt. Bad.

Advice: don't sweat it, just do it. He'll learn by doing and failing and getting better and more natural at it as long as he can self evaluate where the interaction might have gone off track. If he really wants to be bold, he can set a rule for himself: He may not talk about work, the weather or the news when out meeting women. Yeah, we just upped the difficulty level.

2. He likely did not look to determine and pick up on non-verbal cues as to whether this woman was interested in talking with him. And yeah, if they are interested to meet you, they give off signals if you are not too thick to notice. Being aware of such things increases your chances of a positive interaction a hundred fold versus just blindly going up to every woman in the club and hoping to "get lucky". Lucks got nothing to do with it.

No woman wants to be thought of as being the equivalent of a scratch off lottery ticket by some guy hoping to get lucky. A woman would rather you capture her heart through your qualities and your social skills rather than you just happened to "get lucky" with her.

How do you think that makes her feel? "Hey Jimbo, how did you guys meet?" "Dunno Billy-Bob, guess I just got lucky!" Yee-haw!!!!!

Don't be the guy seen going around the room to all the women in the room handing out cards. It reeks of social desperation.

While women do appreciate a man who can demonstrate he isn't a tool around women, they also appreciate a man who can demonstrate selectivity in the female company he chooses to pursue and keep. A guy who indiscriminately hits on everything in his line of sight wearing boobs is a guy who is demonstrating his low value to everyone, especially the women present.

3. He might have been better off either introducing himself to the group and chatting socially for a bit (take the temperature) or finding a moment when she was not in a group (tough) and approaching his selected woman of interest and initiating a normal flirty social interaction.

4. If a woman wants to know about your job, she'll ask you. Putting that out there first like it's his only good quality or the only reason he can come up with for a woman to interact with him, "Look at me! I'm a good provider!" is not exactly known for inducing swoons of erotic delight in the lady folk.

Your friend might want to give some thought to being contrarian. What do I mean? I mean that if the strategy of every man (his competition) in that club that he likes to go to is to show up in a suit, stand around timidly staring at the girls across the room and stress their "good provider/good job" credentials he might have more success with another approach.

His chances might improve if instead of trying to show his bank account credentials he were instead to demonstrate those aspects of his personality, lifestyle and experiences that would make him a fun and exciting guy to get to know. It would help if he was actually a fun and exciting guy. To be sure, a woman you just met would rather hear about your latest expedition to the mountains than to hear about how Ruth at the office is such a stickler for paperwork and you can't stand her.

The fictional character Ward Cleaver was a great husband and father and a man to be respected for his judgement and steadiness of character. However, I would bet that in the fictional world of Leave It To Beaver, when Ward met the future Mrs. Cleaver the first time there was something fun and exciting about him (hot) that she found irresistible that made her say yes to that first date. So, less Ward Cleaver and more Chuck Norris.

5. He shouldn't be asking women he just met at a club and doesn't know from Adam or Eve, as the case may be, out on formal dates. He should make it easier on himself and the women by simply concentrating on having a fun and flirty interaction, getting her phone number and following up with her "sometime next week" , period. That's enough for the first interaction.

When he gets more advanced he can move up to making out in the parking lot outside the club the same night, but for now getting a phone number and leaving the interaction on a positive note would be a big improvement. Lolz.

Get her phone number during a high point in the conversation. Don't wait until you have nothing left to talk about and then ask for it when the convo has petered out and it's all awkward. Duh. Get it while she's laughing with you and having a good time. Wait until at least five minutes in or so. Asking right away is weird and looks like you have no interest in her other than getting a numbah. Waiting too long, you'll probably screw it up. 5-10 minutes in is okay.

Also, don't be a insecure dork and call her number right then and there to make sure she gave you a real one. If she didn't, who cares? Just operate under the assumption she gave you a real number. If not, laugh about it later.

Have an exit and be the first to leave: "It was really nice talking with you but I have to get back to my friends. I'll give you a ring next week." Keep it simple.

Stick around though if it's going great and you're in no danger of stalling out or screwing it up, or if she gives you good signals like touching your arm, or leg, leaning into you, puppy dog eyes, playing with her hair, playfully slapping your arm. Laughing at your dumb jokes. Ya know, she's letting you know she likes you, ya lunk.

If you see her talking to other men after you go do whatever you're doing, don't act weird and butt-hurt. She's not your girl, caveman.

When you call her is up to you. I don't think it matters. Next day, two days, three days? Up to you. I would tend to say that the younger she is the longer you wait, but do call her that same week, between M-TH about 9:00 PM is good. People are usually just chilling out at 9:00 PM. Earlier she might be shopping, doing dinner, whatever. Later she might be in the shower, going to bed, etc.

You can't call her on Friday, Saturday or Sunday in an attempt to setup a date because generally you'll come off as a loser with nothing going on. For example, don't call her 11:37 PM Friday: "Hey what are you doing tonight?" Ummm. If you have the acumen to pull that off, you don't need to be reading this getting started stuff.

When you do make the call to her, you're going have a plan. This concept of his of "Here is my card, you have an open invitation for dinner anytime you want.", is weak. What he's really saying is "My God I'm lonely and I have no social life. I am at your beck and call if you will give me a slice of your attention." Bad move.

Instead, he's going to call her, talk for no more than a few minutes of light, fun conversation and then he will offer her an opportunity to join him doing something. It doesn't matter what it is. If she likes you, she won't care. She just wants to hang out with you some more.

You're the man, so you make the plan and offer, with specifics. She decides to accept. "Hey, next Thursday evening I'm going to take you to this new place I found. They make a great - whatever..." Her: "That sounds great. What time?"

See the words I chose above? "I'm going to take you to this great place..." Sounds a lot more decisive and confident than "So, uh, um, you think maybe, um, you'd want to get together sometime?" Her: "I guess, what did you have in mind?" You: "I dunno, what do you like to do?" SLAP, I just SLAPPED YOU. Don't do that.

If she digs you, short of a family medical emergency, or a better offer from another guy she's interested in, she'll find a way to make the date happen or she will offer an alternate date if she can't make it. "I can't do Thursday, I have to give my elderly mom a sponge bath, can we meet up Wednesday instead?" Your answer: "Yes."

If you get voice mail: Leave a brief message with your phone number and name. I'll tell you what to say so your friend doesn't screw it up: "Hi/Hey, it's Reginald, give me a ring back when you have time to chat 555-1212." Don't talk all fast and nervous on the message. Even if you do, if she likes you, she won't really care. The point is don't leave some psycho 5 minute monologue about how much you liked talking to her last Saturday at the club and how you really felt you guys "had a connection." Barf.

She knows who you are. She has caller-id. If she wants to talk to you she'll pick up or call you back. If she doesn't call you back, you can call her one more time a couple days later. After that - take the hint.

So here it is:

1. Take a shower and show up.
2. Don't be a wuss and be interesting.
3. Don't be weird, be social and interact with people.
4. Approach women.
5. Get a conversation going about something fun.
6. If she seems interested in you "that way" be flirty and fun. Easy Tiger.
7. Get her phone number during a high moment, excuse yourself and don't be butt-hurt.
8. Anything else that happens that night is bonus points for your friend and a good story he gets to tell.
9. Call her in the next couple of days and offer her an opportunity to spend time with you. Don't stalk.
10. Get married and have 2000 babies.

Now even with your friends tactical errors...

and his approach strategy that was not the greatest, nor does it sound like it was very fun or social for the women he wanted to interact with, there was no need for them to act like he spit on one of them. Sheesh. Then they turn around and want to know where all the "good guys" are. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

They are right where you left them ladies. Back in your twenties. Or they are at the social club standing around looking slightly awkward. You just don't notice them. Giggity.

Tell your buddy that he needs to learn how to flirt. Good job on his confidence to approach, now he needs to be fun when interacting. He also should not worry, everyone gets blown out. It happens. Sometimes a chick just doesn't dig you no matter how awesome you know you are. :supergrin:

As for them bombarding him with hate mail and messages. The Chief is correct, he dodged a bullet. She sounds like a BPD, Narcissistic drama queen. It's not enough that she got to hold court at the club, now she wants to bleat and shriek to all her friends about "Can you believe the nerve of this guy!!!!" "OMG!!!! Like Totally!!!!"

To heck with her and her low class friends. I can bet you dollars to donuts that that same women (if she was 35-ish) will be dying to still be on men's sexual radar when she is 45 and up. And if she is 45 and up and still acting like an entitled twenty-something, she really did do him a favor by showing her colors up front.

[U]Final Tid Bit:

When you ask women for dating advice you will often be told to "just be yourself and be nice." That is in fact perfect advice from one woman to another. The ladies are not meaning to deceive you with this advice nor are they trying to give you bad advice, but you are not translating it properly to guy talk so that you can understand. Let me help you.

What they really mean is: "If you are a guy that I find attractive and am interested in, please just be nice and be yourself." or said another way, "Gosh I think you're really cute, I hope you're mostly normal. Please, please be normal and nice." Make more sense now?

Be aware also that the word "nice" might confuse you. Nice does not mean that she finds a guy who always does what she wants, is supplicating, caters to every emotional whim, is a pushover or a pansy attractive.

What "nice" means is a guy who can stand up for himself and sometimes is a bit of a jerk to everyone in the world except her. Even then, the word "No" uttered from your lips in a steady masculine voice while gazing mischievously into her eyes can be quite the turn on for her. You see, through the mystical power of her love she will transform your rough edges and tame your wild heart. Hehe.

However, if you are a guy that she does not find attractive and she is not interested in "that way", no amount of "being nice" or "just being yourself" is going to change that fact. No man on Earth ever "nice guy'ed" his way into a woman's heart nor made her quiver with anticipation at his touch.

In other words, "You're a really great guy, but I think we should just be friends." You think "If I'm so great, why doesn't she want to be more than friends?" Duh. As explained earlier, that's her polite way of saying "Thanks, but no thanks."

Finally, that brings me to...Married guys, God bless 'em.

Married guys will also give you lots of dating advice. Unfortunately, most don't remember much of anything about women that is of use to you. They especially like to tell divorced guys how much the divorced guy doesn't know about women since the divorced guy is divorced after all. Ask most married guys how they wound up with the Mrs. and they will likely respond: "Just got lucky I guess!"

Married guys, who have been married and have been out of the dating scene for longer than five years, know a lot about ONE woman in particular, and they know some about being married, but not much about the state of the current dating scene as it is today.

When and if you think about getting married again it's okay to ask them for advice on how to make sure you're making a good decision or how to captain the ship. In fact, they should be the first guys you talk to so they can warn you off the idea. :rofl: (I kid.) Otherwise, asking a dude who has been married to the same woman for twenty-five years how to go about looking for and dating a new Mrs. Right in the dating market as it is today, not back in the 80s, is not very productive.

It makes for a lot of "Aww, that's so cool how you guys met!" moments and heart warming stories, but it's not particularly instructional to you on how to go into a nightclub and navigate the shark filled waters in 2012.

Ahh, dating. It's just like the Discovery Channel, but with a veneer of civilization painted over it and words on top of the visual cues. Ya know, just to make the whole thing more challenging. Good Luck and welcome to 2012! [Always carry, never tell. Hehehe]

Side note: How the heck did I wind up in this sub-forum? Oh, I clicked on recent posts from the front page.

Well, hello ladies...:cool:...back to General Glocking to argue about extractors. Yee-haw!!!!
The longest post I have ever read on GT! LOL
But dead on....Print it out for your friend.

Lone_Wolfe
08-07-2012, 20:11
I can't help but notice that the OP came in here asking for opinions from the ladies, and most of us who answered thinking the approach was just fine. Then a bunch of men have answererd, and they are almost all negative. So I guess if a lady wants to know if she should approach a man this way, here's her answer. :rofl:



....................I am TOTALLY confugalated. No...I am NOT looking to date...as I mentioned I am happily married (to a cop).

I just want to know the new rules.

The rules, as far as I;m concerned are; Stay a Gentleman. Any LADY would appreciate you, and graciously thank you. One of your brethren helped me with my carry-on in ATL last night, and he was very appreciated. :wavey:

BonnieB
08-07-2012, 20:18
I'm with Lone Wolfe on this. If we each behaved as Ladies or Gentlemen, we'd all have a nicer time in life. ( I often think about what my sainted grandmother, a genuine lady, would have me do.)

You can't control other people's behavior, but you sure can control your own. Good manners are never out of place.

bobby_w
08-07-2012, 20:23
...I was raised "cowboy proper" as my Grammy (who also was the one who raised me) would say.

I really like that term. Cowboy Proper.

I was also raised by my Mama during the years that counted.

And I would never give some one in a bar my company business card. I am guessing that the calls and emails he received from the Bat Crazies were sent to his work email accounts and phones.

I do have a "personal card" that I use. I hand it out carefully.

BonnieB
08-07-2012, 20:26
BTW, there is a hilarious movie on this subject "Crazy, Stupid, Love", just came out on cable. It's about a 40'ish guy, suddenly on the dating market, who has absolutely no clue where to start. He runs into a guy who's getting all the girls.

Misty02
08-08-2012, 04:39
Here is an observation I would like to toss in:

I am just a few months shy of my 45th birthday. I have been happily married for 11 years (first and ONLY wife).

Anyway...

I was raised "cowboy proper" as my Grammy (who also was the one who raised me) would say.

I was taught from day-one that women were to be called "ma'am" and that a man, worthy of the name, was unfailingly polite to a lady, and was always willing to lend a hand.

NOW....I have followed this pattern of behavior my whole life...and over the last decade or so, I seem to get "I don't need A MAN to hold a door for me!" or something of that nature more than a few times.

What gives?

Am I a dinosaur?

Should I wear my pants below my butt and call women the b-word?

I am TOTALLY confugalated. No...I am NOT looking to date...as I mentioned I am happily married (to a cop).

I just want to know the new rules.

The rules are the same in that respect. My daughter is from the new generation and she too enjoys and is appreciative when a gentleman holds a door open for her. The one notable difference is that if there is a gentleman coming behind us with his hands filled, it is ok for us to hold the door open for him.

Dealing with courteous polite people has always been nice and will always be nice; the only change is that now it is ok for gentlemen to be the recipient of such courtesies. Although, I have seen gentlemen blush when I’ve beaten them to the door, because their hands were ful,l and held it open for them. It’s ok, don’t b be embarrassed, just smile and say “thank you”. :)

.

BobbyT
08-08-2012, 05:48
The longest post I have ever read on GT! LOL
But dead on....Print it out for your friend.

Why, oh why, do people quote entire gargantuan posts just to add a single line response? Everybody has to scroll for ten minutes for no reason.

To the OP, I'll reiterate. Stop pandering. You are not a servant, she is not a goddess, so stop putting her on a pedestal unless you want to spend lots of time and money as her emotional pillow only to hear "let's just be friends" when you go for more.

fairtomidland
08-08-2012, 10:30
Why, oh why, do people quote entire gargantuan posts just to add a single line response? Everybody has to scroll for ten minutes for no reason.

To the OP, I'll reiterate. Stop pandering. You are not a servant, she is not a goddess, so stop putting her on a pedestal unless you want to spend lots of time and money as her emotional pillow only to hear "let's just be friends" when you go for more.
That is a two line response, would 3 make it allright??? I believe I quoted it for the same reason you quoted me....

youngdocglock
08-08-2012, 10:32
Im not a lady......but this woman sounds nuts. That is by FAR the most respectable pickup line i've ever seen.

HKLovingIT
08-08-2012, 10:36
I'd consider this about the most polite, respectful, and non-threatening approach I've ever seen. If I was at all attracted to him I'd definitely take him up on dinner.

That is what I was getting at in my reply to OP's question. His friend failed to generate the attraction response in the woman, thus he got blown out.

If a woman finds you attractive you get a certain amount of slack to make tactical and clumsy mistakes. If she does not, or is on the fence, you don't have much room for making mistakes like the OP's friend did.

Dating for guys can be harsh. 95% of the time the guy has to approach, and usually it's in a public setting. The chance for rejection is high and if the lady acts like the one in the OP's story, the chance for public derision is high. That's why we give the advice we do so that a guy minimizes the situations like that he puts himself in and maximizes his chances of a good outcome.

It's also why I noted that a woman has every right to say 'no thanks', but I am especially appreciative of a woman who does it in such a way as not to embarrass the guy in front of people. She understands he's just a guy out looking for love and there's no need to stomp him.

Other women seem to take great delight in making a big stink about a guy daring to approach them. (Only a guy they aren't attracted to.) They revel in trying to insult him or embarrass him.

For women, they mostly just need to show up to where guys are, smile and look friendly. I don't mean that in a negative manner at all so don't read a tone into it. Just saying, if you want to meet a guy, you basically need to go where some guys are and smile at a couple of them. If they aren't too thick they'll be over shortly to chat with you.

Dudes have to do the heavy lifting of getting the interaction going. No biggie. Just needs to be done right, combined with the requirement that she needs to think you're attractive. It would help OPs friend if he could read the non-verbal signals before diving in.

Lone_Wolfe
08-08-2012, 11:18
That is what I was getting at in my reply to OP's question. His friend failed to generate the attraction response in the woman, thus he got blown out.

.........

You should have highlighted the words 'AT ALL' in my response. In his case, that would have included if I was on the fence, or even close to it. He'd have had to be kin to Frankenstein for me to be unatttracted to him after such a polite approach. He'd have gained major attractiveness points from me, and my impression might have gotten better after he left, to the point I decided to take him up even if I didn't initially think I would.

I know a lot of you posts claim to offer insight into the minds of women, but in this one, I think you missed.

HKLovingIT
08-08-2012, 13:32
You should have highlighted the words 'AT ALL' in my response. In his case, that would have included if I was on the fence, or even close to it. He'd have had to be kin to Frankenstein for me to be unatttracted to him after such a polite approach. He'd have gained major attractiveness points from me, and my impression might have gotten better after he left, to the point I decided to take him up even if I didn't initially think I would.

I know a lot of you posts claim to offer insight into the minds of women, but in this one, I think you missed.

I understand what you are saying but want to dig a bit more under the hood.

Can politeness overcome something like a very unattractive physical defect?

Perhaps a very unflattering birth mark or a big hairy mole on his face, or even worse: egregious nose hair or bad breath? Those things are not Frankenstein level, but still very unattractive. :supergrin: I kid. A bit.

I agree politeness and decorum always makes a person more attractive, and the lack of it can make a person unattractive, but I don't think politeness on its own is enough to push someone over the line to where you would be changing your gut reaction to their physical attractiveness. But maybe for some it does.

So, how do you see it?

For me, if I see a woman that I find physically attractive, and she is sweet, yes that does bump her up even higher to me. However, if I thought she was unattractive to start with, I will appreciate that she is a polite person with manners, but it still won't make me want to date her. I'm not trying to be cruel to her by any means, but if I just don't feel physically attracted to her I can't push myself to do it.

I'm certain we have all met many people in our lives that we thought, "Gee what a swell gal or guy." but we gave no consideration to dating them because they just didn't push those buttons in us. Maybe we're not using the word attractive the same way though.

I'm mainly referring to that first across the room "They are hot." gut reaction. They can go up or down in total attractiveness from there based on their behavior, but I still think that in a dating environment where strangers are out and about to meet each other, if you approach a woman that doesn't find you attractive, you have a tough mountain to climb and being nice or polite isn't going to be enough to do it in most cases.

Matter of fact if someone finds you sufficiently attractive and sexy, you can get away with quite a bit of not nice and not polite behavior. :dunno:

Lone_Wolfe
08-08-2012, 14:00
You're just proving to me pnce again that men are wired differently. I've dated men that defects like you mentiones, because they were attractive on ther INSIDE. That's what matters. Not interesting the point with you.

HKLovingIT
08-08-2012, 14:15
You're just proving to me pnce again that men are wired differently. I've dated men that defects like you mentiones, because they were attractive on ther INSIDE. That's what matters. Not interesting the point with you.

Sure, we're wired different. Nothing wrong with that. That's what makes it fun and keeps everyone on their toes. :wavey:

Mrs.Cicero
08-08-2012, 15:11
I understand what you are saying but want to dig a bit more under the hood.
Can politeness overcome something like a very unattractive physical defect?
Perhaps a very unflattering birth mark or a big hairy mole on his face, or even worse: egregious nose hair or bad breath? Those things are not Frankenstein level, but still very unattractive. :supergrin: I kid. A bit.
I agree politeness and decorum always makes a person more attractive, and the lack of it can make a person unattractive, but I don't think politeness on its own is enough to push someone over the line to where you would be changing your gut reaction to their physical attractiveness. But maybe for some it does.
So, how do you see it?
For me, if I see a woman that I find physically attractive, and she is sweet, yes that does bump her up even higher to me. However, if I thought she was unattractive to start with, I will appreciate that she is a polite person with manners, but it still won't make me want to date her. I'm not trying to be cruel to her by any means, but if I just don't feel physically attracted to her I can't push myself to do it.
I'm certain we have all met many people in our lives that we thought, "Gee what a swell gal or guy." but we gave no consideration to dating them because they just didn't push those buttons in us. Maybe we're not using the word attractive the same way though.
I'm mainly referring to that first across the room "They are hot." gut reaction. They can go up or down in total attractiveness from there based on their behavior, but I still think that in a dating environment where strangers are out and about to meet each other, if you approach a woman that doesn't find you attractive, you have a tough mountain to climb and being nice or polite isn't going to be enough to do it in most cases.
Matter of fact if someone finds you sufficiently attractive and sexy, you can get away with quite a bit of not nice and not polite behavior. :dunno:

I gave this some thought. There are a lot of physical defects that character, personality, approach, manners, etc can overcome. Bad breath isn't one of them. That's just a personal pet peeve of mine. Scars, etc., don't put me off, but bad breath will.
The other things that puts me off immediately are entirely non-physical. They are the creepy vibe, the desperate vibe, the incompetent vibe. I have a friend, and that's all he'll ever be, that is very polite in his approaches. So fricking polite that he loans money to exotic dancers when they ask, and never gets it back, and is always surprised by this. Um. He's "nice". He's also socially inept. He completely misses non-verbal cues and he reads subtexts into verbal communications that just aren't present. He's not at all creepy, but he is just not attractive to me as lover-material, if that makes sense. Think "just not hot." If he'd tried the approach in the OP, I would have politely thanked him for his card and said I'd think about it, and never called him back. That's my polite turn-down. He would have interpreted it as "I'm really thinking about it." And the next time we met, he'd have asked again. And again. I have no reason to be rude to him. He stopped asking when I got married.

Rudeness only kicks in when people won't get out of my personal space and attempt to use blatant psychological manipulation. Nothing about the approach in the OP was either. I would give that approach somewhat MORE consideration, particularly from someone I was "on the fence" about, than a more direct approach that left me with no easy escape. I don't LIKE to reject people. It feels bad. Some men have the self-confidence to be direct and I can say no, knowing that I haven't hurt their feelings at all, that they will just look elsewhere for entertainment. Some don't.

FWIW, my husband and I were just friends for a couple years before we started dating - we were dating other people when we met, and while we enjoyed each other's company, neither of us was thinking about dating the other, because we were already otherwise attached. It wasn't until we were both unattached at the same time, that we decided to risk wrecking a perfectly good friendship. That worked far better than any relationship I ever had before that started as a dating relationship rather than a friendship. I'm not a big fan of dating men I just met, that I don't know at all.

Mrs.Cicero

ubimow
08-13-2012, 03:39
He sounds like a nice guy. And the woman and her friends sound like a bunch of snobs!

MKEgal
08-13-2012, 23:11
HK, that is one of the best posts I've read.
Not just here, anywhere.

I'd consider this about the most polite, respectful, and non-threatening approach I've ever seen.
If I was at all attracted to him I'd definitely take him up on dinner.
Ditto.
Though I question the business card... did he give his cell #, or was it just the business phone? How about a personal card (as someone else suggested), or even a simple piece of paper?

If I didn't like the looks of the guy, or he felt creepy, I'd try to find a polite way to say 'not interested'.
(But always be ready to enforce that 'no' if it turns out there's a reason for the creepy vibe.)

And yes, lunch or coffee would be even less threatening.

Query,would a man holding/opening a door fer ya be offensive?
No. And as others have mentioned, I return the favor.
I'm perfectly capable of opening a door for myself, & I suspect most people are. It's just a nice gesture.