380 + p yup [Archive] - Glock Talk

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purrrfect 10
07-28-2012, 16:19
OK I'm a G20 10 mm lover Best pistol ever made... I bought an LCP never thought I would but was wanting a small pocket pistol for those time not carrying my G20.. The Ruger LCP loaded 7 rounds Underwood +P 1150fps new hP would not be something I would want to be hit with.

LOOK out 9mm... The LCP 380+P is knocking once on your door and walking in.

Any other 380+ P lovers chim in on your experiences

Great little pistol with a punch :wow:

JW1178
07-28-2012, 16:48
I doubt you'll actually see that kind of speed coming out of your LCP but the newer .380 loads aren't too bad. You are seeing much higher velosities out of 9mm luger so why not .380? Possibly the newer .380's are up to spec with older 9mm's?

Huaco Kid
07-28-2012, 17:51
+P+ out of my Colt Pony makes your hand tingle.

You probably won't hit anything with it from very far out.

But, anyone in the general vicinity will run.

Hopefully.

Anglin_AZ
07-28-2012, 19:05
It was my understanding that the LCP couldn't handle +p rounds.

LOCHFAL
07-28-2012, 19:19
It was my understanding that the LCP couldn't handle +p rounds.

Details schmetails. Don't think I'd enjoy trying it though. :wow:

arclight610
07-28-2012, 19:53
All guns can handle at least 1 round of +p

G26S239
07-29-2012, 01:34
It was my understanding that the LCP couldn't handle +p rounds.
Several people on this forum have used them with no apparent harm to their guns or themselves. Ruger states no +P in the LCP manual and given that it has a 4 ounces slide I stick with standard pressure Remington 102 BJHPs.

NEOH212
07-29-2012, 01:49
Instead of a pocket (expletive omitted) why not get a real gun in a real caliber. Such as 9x19 or larger?

There are plenty of small compact guns that fire a far more potent cartridge than the .380. I can't see why anyone can justify carrying a cartridge with the lousy track record that the .380 has.

It's your life not mine. I guess America loves it's fads more than logic.

Have at it there chisel chest!

:supergrin:

G26S239
07-29-2012, 02:05
Instead of a pocket (expletive omitted) why not get a real gun in a real caliber. Such as 9x19 or larger?

There are plenty of small compact guns that fire a far more potent cartridge than the .380. I can't see why anyone can justify carrying a cartridge with the lousy track record that the .380 has.

It's your life not mine. I guess America loves it's fads more than logic.

Have at it there chisel chest!

:supergrin:
Okay Alice, I'll bite. Because the LCP size guns are a hell of a lot smaller than the small 9mms and with several hundred rounds my LCP is tested reliable. Your disapproval is noted.

Here it is next to a Glock 26 and Kahr MK9. It is much slimmer and lighter.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2zpnrmb.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2vljol0.jpg

It is also considerably smaller, lighter and thinner than a 642.

http://i47.tinypic.com/10z6bes.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/1498unn.jpg

NEOH212
07-29-2012, 02:15
Okay Alice, I'll bite. Because the LCP size guns are a hell of a lot smaller than the small 9mms and with several hundred rounds my LCP is tested reliable. Your disapproval is noted.

Here it is next to a Glock 26 and Kahr MK9. It is much slimmer and lighter.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2zpnrmb.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2vljol0.jpg

It is also considerably smaller, lighter and thinner than a 642.

http://i47.tinypic.com/10z6bes.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/1498unn.jpg

The size is definitely advantageous but is trumped by the cartridge. Sure, any gun is better than no gun but I don't see what's so dang hard about carrying at least a sub compact 9mm over those things.

I'm not much over 5" tall and weigh 130 pounds. I can conceal a full size pistol with no trouble. Now I don't expect everyone to be just like me but I hear so many people complaining that guns are too bulky, too heavy, to big, ect....

As a result, they settle for something less then optimum for defense. I don't see how someone justifies that when concealing, lets say a Glock 26 is easy as pie.

Just for the record, my 9x19 minimum is referring to a semi-auto pistol since that's what we were discussing.

The .38 Special has a great track record and is more than adequate for personal defense especially with the Speer 135+P loading.

No one can nor will ever convince me (and alot of professionals) that the .380 is adequate for personal defense.

YMMV.

G26S239
07-29-2012, 02:36
I believe a lot of the difference is circumstance that people find themselves carrying in NEOH. And rule number 1 does apply. You don't have to sell me on the advantage that a G26 or P2000sk 40 has over a 380. My Kahr MK9 is the shortest barrel 9mm I have @ 3" and I would have to get the weakest 9mm I could find for it and get a 380 the size of my PPK w/3.35" barrel and the hottest +P 380 to even get the 380 in spitting distance. At that point the size differences are not a consideration, especially since I don't handicap my Kahrs or 26s to let the 380 try to catch up. I load my MK9 with HST2 147 grain loads. BTW this particular PPK is a 32, my only other 380 class cartridge gun is my Makarov 9X18 which is 26 ounces empty but tough built.

http://i45.tinypic.com/befk8.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/14t7ibm.jpg

NEOH212
07-29-2012, 02:51
I believe a lot of the difference is circumstance that people find themselves carrying in NEOH. And rule number 1 does apply. You don't have to sell me on the advantage that a G26 or P2000sk 40 has over a 380. My Kahr MK9 is the shortest barrel 9mm I have @ 3" and I would have to get the weakest 9mm I could find for it and get a 380 the size of my PPK w/3.35" barrel and the hottest +P 380 to even get the 380 in spitting distance. At that point the size differences are not a consideration, especially since I don't handicap my Kahrs or 26s to let the 380 try to catch up. I load my MK9 with HST2 147 grain loads. BTW this particular PPK is a 32, my only other 380 class cartridge gun is my Makarov 9X18 which is 26 ounces empty but tough built.

All else aside, the main reason that I don't consider the .380 is because of the way it's performed in my testing (not scientific when compared to the industry) and actual industry testing. My experience has been what will reliably expand doesn't usually penetrate to a adequate depth and that which does penetrate to a adequate depth doesn't expand and often over penetrates.

I considered the .380 years ago but I was always put off by the less then stellar performance. Sure the .380 has put some people down. I never said it couldn't but it doesn't have the greatest track record and that's why I don't feel comfortable betting my life on it.

One thing I've never tested myself is how the .380 would perform in a contact shot or near point blank range. I would imagine the results would be similar to what I've observed already but I don't know that for sure.

I will say one thing, the .380 in those small single stack pistols make for a great hide away gun though!

If someday someone works out a bullet design that does the job, then my opinion my change. Until then.......

Folsom_Prison
07-29-2012, 03:26
Carrying a gun should be comforting, not comfortable! IMO so many people take the easy way out with carrying a "small" gun instead of sacking up and carrying something bigger which I'm sure alot could pull off, but don't want to try.

That's just my opinion, I carry a G19 but wouldn't hesitate to carry a G17 or another full-size pistol if I had one.

G26S239
07-29-2012, 03:47
Carrying a gun should be comforting, not comfortable! IMO so many people take the easy way out with carrying a "small" gun instead of sacking up and carrying something bigger which I'm sure alot could pull off, but don't want to try.

That's just my opinion, I carry a G19 but wouldn't hesitate to carry a G17 or another full-size pistol if I had one.
Clint Smith likes to use that comforting not comfortable line. As a professional firearms trainer there is no downside to him possibly occasionally being made as armed. Maybe you should carry a full size 1911 like Clint does since you like quoting him. My TRS weighs just under 46 ounces loaded but I'll pass on carrying it - too damned heavy. I will also generally refrain from using my pistol to fight my way to my rifle like so many sheepdogs like to repeat. That Aurora massacre is a good example of the flaw in that mantra for an armed citizen. Having police respond to that call and being a well armed sheepdog going back into that theater as a non cop - no badge person armed with a rifle would not have gone well for such a sheepdog.

gwalchmai
07-29-2012, 05:01
All else aside, the main reason that I don't consider the .380 is because of the way it's performed in my testing (not scientific when compared to the industry) and actual industry testing. My experience has been what will reliably expand doesn't usually penetrate to a adequate depth and that which does penetrate to a adequate depth doesn't expand and often over penetrates. We desire to optimize the properties of expansion and penetration, but in these mouse calibers we can't get reliable expansion. Since I can only have one of the desired properties I'll maximize penetration. Over-penetration doesn't scare me. I've never seen a case of a bystander getting hit by an over-penetrating round, but if it happened I doubt the round would have enough spunk left to do very much harm. Anyway, it's a trade-off I'm willing to make. ;)

I keep S&B FMJ in my P32, because it's the hottest I can find.

G26S239
07-29-2012, 05:43
Penetration does not seem to suffer with the 102 grain Remington. Expansion sucks but I can live with that from a 380.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATTBudWGunI&feature=plcp

Restless28
07-29-2012, 05:50
I like the size of those guns, but after seeing that gentleman pepper those thugs in Florida and they were able to run away, a .380 isn't in my future.

I would rather wear a large T and carry my G23.

Yup.

JEEPX
07-29-2012, 06:07
I love the little LCP.

I carry an LCP as a bug all the time. At times, it has been carried as a primary.

I have 200 rounds of BB .380 +p 80 gr Barnes Tac-XP through my LCP.

There are NO signs of damage. If damage ever occurs, parts will be replaced or a new LCP bought.

It's not like the LCP is an expensive pistol.

BTW- in business apparel or casual, I carry CM9 99% of the time. A spare 8 round magazine is carried. I find this reliable. thin, comfortable setup perfect.
The other 1% a G26.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

gwalchmai
07-29-2012, 06:08
I like the size of those guns, but after seeing that gentleman pepper those thugs in Florida and they were able to run away, a .380 isn't in my future.

I would rather wear a large T and carry my G23.

Yup.How many hits did he get on the thugs?

JEEPX
07-29-2012, 06:31
I like the size of those guns, but after seeing that gentleman pepper those thugs in Florida and they were able to run away, a .380 isn't in my future.

I would rather wear a large T and carry my G23.

Yup.
In the mid 90's Signal Mountain, TN police shot a man 8 times with. 45acp JHP. I remember it well because I lived on Signal Mountain at the time.
The man lived and quickly filed suit.
Does this show the. 45acp to be crap? Or that under fear and stress no shots hit COM.
By the same token a home intruder was killed in Rossville GA by two. 22lr shots.
IMO: too much is made over pistol caliber effectiveness.
Placement trumps caliber.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Halojumper
07-29-2012, 06:43
Clint Smith likes to use that comforting not comfortable line. As a professional firearms trainer there is no downside to him possibly occasionally being made as armed. Maybe you should carry a full size 1911 like Clint does since you like quoting him. My TRS weighs just under 46 ounces loaded but I'll pass on carrying it - too damned heavy. I will also generally refrain from using my pistol to fight my way to my rifle like so many sheepdogs like to repeat. That Aurora massacre is a good example of the flaw in that mantra for an armed citizen. Having police respond to that call and being a well armed sheepdog going back into that theater as a non cop - no badge person armed with a rifle would not have gone well for such a sheepdog.

I've always thought that, for the overwhelming majority of situations, that mantra is ridiculous, for similar reasons as to what you expressed.

vote Republican
07-29-2012, 06:57
How many hits did he get on the thugs?

"Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/18/florida-customer-shoots-suspects-during-internet-cafe-robbery/

So maybe you immobilize one of the guys with a .45. I guess the one that got hit in the arm, if it had been 10mm, it would have taken his arm off at the shoulder.

gwalchmai
07-29-2012, 07:00
In any event, it sure stopped the robbery. ;)

Restless28
07-29-2012, 07:04
In any event, it sure stopped the robbery. ;)

No disagreement there.

John Galt
07-29-2012, 08:55
When I was 17 my father was mugged by two men at knifepoint. He shot them both with a .380 Government Model. He killed one outright, the other died in surgery.



No one will ever convince me that the .380 is not a good defensive cartridge.

NickC50310
07-29-2012, 09:01
I would prefer to have something with a bit more punch than .380. I used to carry my full size FNX .40 and it was just too much. Way too heavy, big grip that printed often. I just got an XDm .40 compact and its pretty much perfect. Completely invisible on me and it doesnt make my pants fall down. I have 12 rounds of .40 Winchester 180GR Bonded PDX in it and 16 rounds in the magazine on the other side.

LOCHFAL
07-29-2012, 09:13
I've always thought that, for the overwhelming majority of situations, that mantra is ridiculous, for similar reasons as to what you expressed.

I've always thought that there is a happy medium on the size and caliber of handgun carried, I'm still not sure I've found it but right now I'm really liking the Glock 27.

As far as the fighting your way to a rifle or shotgun, I agree but I also feel that this is more valid in your own space, home or vehichle campsite etc. Not out in public of course.

forresme
07-29-2012, 09:57
With the LCP or Kel-Tec 380 I feel lucky if I can hit anything much beyond 6 feet. They are the most uncomfortable guns to shoot I have ever seen. Granted, they are very small, light, and easy to pocket carry, but for personal defense I feel much more confident with either my Kahr PM-9, Glock 26, or S&W 442. With the .380 it is too much of a toss up.

Wolfdad
07-30-2012, 09:21
Placement over caliber every time. A 380 COM or head betters any other caliber anywhere else on the body.

Bilbo Bagins
07-30-2012, 09:39
I do love these caliber wars.

I don't understand why people consider the .380 anemic when Nazis and police in europe have been pretty successful with the round.

Heck some 50 years ago people didn't have problems with .32S&W longs and .32acp as police and defensive rounds.

Its all about shot placement.

Like G26239 mentioned the size difference between a .380 pocket gun like the LCP and a .38snubbie or a compact 9mm is VERY signicant.

You are more likely to ALWAYS be armed with a small .380 pocket gun. Better have a gun than not.

gwalchmai
07-30-2012, 09:50
I don't understand why people consider the .380 anemic when Nazis and police in europe have been pretty successful with the round.NB, yooropeeans use pistols as more of a badge than a combat weapon. But I agree that mouseguns can be useful.

wjv
07-30-2012, 10:19
My normal carry is a S&W airweight J frame. But honestly, I still want a .380. There are time when I just have on some shorts and a t shirt and the J frame is too bulky. I also like that even if I'm wearing pajamas or shorts to bed, I could still slip a LCP into my pocket and be armed even when I'm "dressed" for bed.

Bilbo Bagins
07-30-2012, 11:20
My normal carry is a S&W airweight J frame. But honestly, I still want a .380. There are time when I just have on some shorts and a t shirt and the J frame is too bulky. I also like that even if I'm wearing pajamas or shorts to bed, I could still slip a LCP into my pocket and be armed even when I'm "dressed" for bed.

Thaty is what I like about my .380 pocket gun too. If someone is knocking at the door at midnight I don't have to freak out the kids by running down the stairs with my G17.

It happened the other day. Knock at the door superlate. I grabbed my 380 and stuck it the pocket of my shorts. Found out it was just the neighbor telling me my wife left her car headlights on. I was armed in case it was something bad, but my neighbor, my kids and the wife were none the wiser.

tongix
07-30-2012, 11:23
THe German s use .32 cal in Walther sized pistols , those go popular back to the 30s and .40s . But today the badguys are big wide bodies mofos. Most of them are into drugs and cocaine. Its about right you up your caliber choice nowadays to something like 9 mm Makarov or higher. A 250 lb hunk of raging muscle doesnt go down that easily .Plus most wear some thick clothes and undergarment. A .380 FMJ is what most experts recommend. A premium ammo is also a must for .380 users. Thats my take....

G26AZ
07-30-2012, 12:11
My normal carry is a S&W airweight J frame. But honestly, I still want a .380. There are time when I just have on some shorts and a t shirt and the J frame is too bulky. I also like that even if I'm wearing pajamas or shorts to bed, I could still slip a LCP into my pocket and be armed even when I'm "dressed" for bed.

Thats what I like about my KelTec 380. When I get compfy for the night, I usually wear gym shorts and a T-shirt. The .45 Commander goes in the bedside holster, and the KelTec goes in the pocket of my shorts and doesn't make them sag. With the little clip-on Uncle Mikes nylon holster, I can even wear it in just my underwear (erase mental image!) if I want to.:embarassed:

Caver 60
07-30-2012, 12:27
With the LCP or Kel-Tec 380 I feel lucky if I can hit anything much beyond 6 feet. They are the most uncomfortable guns to shoot I have ever seen. Granted, they are very small, light, and easy to pocket carry, but for personal defense I feel much more confident with either my Kahr PM-9, Glock 26, or S&W 442. With the .380 it is too much of a toss up.

If you can't hit with it, don't carry it. But you might want to take a look at some of the post and threads from M2 Carbine. He does some pretty impressive LONG RANGE work with mouse guns including 380. And I'm a great believer in long range practice as well as 'bad breath range' practice.

I'm not as good as M2 Carbine, but I'm no slouch with my P3AT's and Kahr mouse pistols. I've killed many small four legged moving varmints with my P3AT over the years. I know they were not shooting back. But I figure if I can hit something like that, I can probably hit a larger target if I don't loose my cool. I regularly practice at out to 50 yards or more with my mouse guns, including the P3AT.

And I consider my P3AT to be a pretty easy to shoot pistol. The recoil is negligible to my way of thinking, but I'm used to magnum handgun shooting.

We desire to optimize the properties of expansion and penetration, but in these mouse calibers we can't get reliable expansion. Since I can only have one of the desired properties I'll maximize penetration. Over-penetration doesn't scare me. I've never seen a case of a bystander getting hit by an over-penetrating round, but if it happened I doubt the round would have enough spunk left to do very much harm. Anyway, it's a trade-off I'm willing to make. ;)

I keep S&B FMJ in my P32, because it's the hottest I can find.

Pretty much sums up my opinion except my choice of FNJ ammo. I'm not the least bit worried about over-penetration. I worry a lot more about misses. Statistics seem to show a pretty high percentage of misses in most handgun self defense shootings, even LEO involved ones.

ArtCrafter
07-30-2012, 12:30
Look on the 'bright' side: Anyone who carries a .380 for self-defense against anything larger than a 'mouse' is certainly no pessimist.

:supergrin:

gatorboy
11-30-2012, 08:21
I've got one .380, Kahr P380. I would only carry it as backup to something better. The PM9 which I also own is as small as I'd go for primary but don't even need to make that sacrifice with my Shield 40 and the short mag. Still 6+1 and just as small. I trust my seven shot 351 NG J-frame over a 380. 40-50gr. .22 mag's penetrate much better than an 85-100 gr. .355 at the same velocity. Plus the J-frame weighs 11oz. loaded and is way more reliable than the Kahr 380 I have.

racerford
11-30-2012, 09:09
[QUOTE=G26S239;19247284]Okay Alice, I'll bite. Because the LCP size guns are a hell of a lot smaller than the small 9mms and with several hundred rounds my LCP is tested reliable. Your disapproval is noted.

..........

Yes but compare it against the Rohrbaugh 9MM. I used to carry a Seecamp .32 when it was not convenient to carry a Glock 29. The 29 is just as easy to carry as Model 26 (sub-compact 9mm, easier to shoot that the Model 33 (sub-compact .357SIG) and no body bag is needed, only a wetvac:whistling:.

When the Rohrbaugh became available I haven't carried the Seecamp since. The Rohrbaugh is slightly larger and much more potent. It's main drawback (besides cost) is frequent recoil spring replacement. The springs are cheap so not a big deal to me.

Eric
11-30-2012, 09:14
Instead of a pocket (expletive omitted) why not get a real gun in a real caliber. Such as 9x19 or larger?

There are plenty of small compact guns that fire a far more potent cartridge than the .380. I can't see why anyone can justify carrying a cartridge with the lousy track record that the .380 has.

It's your life not mine. I guess America loves it's fads more than logic.

Have at it there chisel chest!

:supergrin:


Do you know the first rule of a gunfight? Bring a gun.

I know plenty of macho types who turn their nose up at mouse guns, who simply do not carry in circumstances where their bigger, heavier weapon is impractical or impossible to carry.

I can clip my P3AT into the waistband of a pair of jogging shorts or sweatpants and never even notice that it is there. Show me a nine you can do that with. I tell people that my P3AT is what I carry when I can't carry a gun. I would much rather have that in my hand than my Johnson, if trouble finds me though.

I usually carry a 5" Kimber CDP, but I am not always dressed in a way where I can carry it. I am always carrying something though. Eric

Z71bill
11-30-2012, 09:30
Is there a standard for +P & +P+ in .380 auto?

I purchased a P-3AT 6 years ago - I still carry it when I walk the dog - go get the mail - while taking a bike ride - and as a BUG when I travel.

IMHO the P-3AT is easier to shoot than a J frame size revolver in double action. Long trigger but smooth trigger.

tous
11-30-2012, 09:36
"Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/18/florida-customer-shoots-suspects-during-internet-cafe-robbery/

So maybe you immobilize one of the guys with a .45. I guess the one that got hit in the arm, if it had been 10mm, it would have taken his arm off at the shoulder.

Nay, good sir.
Had it been a mighty 10mm it would have taken everyone's shoulders off in the line of fire for more than 15 miles.

:supergrin:

The smallest pistol I holster is a Glock 30. If I just need to dump one in my pocket, it's a J-frame revolver. I suggest that 5 158-grainers at 800 feet per second beats 7 90 grainers at 1100 feet per second. Kinetic energy is about the same --- anemic, but better than throwing rocks.

Note that the standard .45 ACP 230-grain ball delivers more than twice the kinetic energy than a .380 ACP or .38 Special can.

What about a J-frame in .357 Magnum, you ask? A reasonable choice, far better than a tiny bullet at mediocre velocity, but they are a bit punishing.

Foxterriermom
11-30-2012, 09:46
I bought one of those a little while back and wish I hadn't. I can't hit the side of a barn without being right on top of it.

Cream Soda Kid
11-30-2012, 10:30
Do you know the first rule of a gunfight? Bring a gun.

I know plenty of macho types who turn their nose up at mouse guns, who simply do not carry in circumstances where their bigger, heavier weapon is impractical or impossible to carry.

I can clip my P3AT into the waistband of a pair of jogging shorts or sweatpants and never even notice that it is there. Show me a nine you can do that with. I tell people that my P3AT is what I carry when I can't carry a gun. I would much rather have that in my hand than my Johnson, if trouble finds me though.

I usually carry a 5" Kimber CDP, but I am not always dressed in a way where I can carry it. I am always carrying something though. Eric

I agree with you.


My first carry gun was a Bersa Thunder .380. no spare magazine, carried IWB or pocket carry. It was what I could afford at the time. I still have it. I have built up a small collection since then. I have carried the .380, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 9X19, .40 caliber, .357 SIG, .45 GAP, and .45 ACP.


My smallest gun is the Bersa, my largest is a full size 1911.
I usually carry 9MM in a GLOCK G19 IWB or a G26 in my pocket or with a Galco JAK slide. Man I love that little holster, it carries and conceals like an IWB but since it rides outside the waistband, itís pretty darn comfortable. But I digress.


I feel confident enough with any of those weapons, but the .380 does make me feel a little underpowered. I donít carry that one very often anymore.
But like you Eric, I always carry something.

PocketProtector
11-30-2012, 10:47
LCP with BB hard cast +P in rear pocket at ALL times.
Out and about and the G26 accompanies the LCP.
Always

There are just some places and some situations where only an LCP or similar will do.

ThinkMud
11-30-2012, 10:55
Not knocking the LCP since I often carry mine when I don't feel like putting a holster on. But someone once said a great quote. Something like "Carrying is about confidence, never about comfort"

I try not to carry less than a 26 or 27 most of the time. But +p .380 sounds better than nothing!

Dennis in MA
11-30-2012, 11:03
Is there a standard for +P & +P+ in .380 auto?

I purchased a P-3AT 6 years ago - I still carry it when I walk the dog - go get the mail - while taking a bike ride - and as a BUG when I travel.

IMHO the P-3AT is easier to shoot than a J frame size revolver in double action. Long trigger but smooth trigger.

Wow. You may be the first to say that in the history of mouseguns.

Not knocking the LCP since I often carry mine when I don't feel like putting a holster on. But someone once said a great quote. Something like "Carrying is about confidence, never about comfort"

I try not to carry less than a 26 or 27 most of the time. But +p .380 sounds better than nothing!

Clint Smith said, "A handgun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. . . wear the biggest gun you can."

ThinkMud
11-30-2012, 11:05
..
Clint Smith said, "A handgun is supposed to be comforting, not comfortable. . . wear the biggest gun you can."

That's the one! Thanks:yourock:

airmotive
11-30-2012, 11:05
If I'm too far away from a bad guy for me to get 5 of 7 COM hits with my LCP, then I'm far enough away to beat feet and escape!

I don't carry to hunt bad guys. I carry to discourage bad guys from keeping up with me while I run away screaming like a 4 year old girl.

arclight610
11-30-2012, 11:22
Odds of encountering a situation where you need to draw your CCW: Not very high
Odds of just the presence of a firearm diffusing the situation: Pretty good
Odds of getting into an outright gun battle: Not very high

If youre gonna carry, you might as well carry a gun that you know you will have on you 24/7 and be comfortable. However, the situation and living area will dictate.

ThinkMud
11-30-2012, 11:26
I do agree that if you will only carry little 380, then do it! better to have something than nothing!

It took me forever to get my wife to carry, but now she carries daily with a Smith Bodyguard .380. I couldn't be more happy. I'd rather her carry .22lr than just her Twitch pocket knife :)

Bilrus61
11-30-2012, 11:37
I choose a .380 not to kill attackers but to stop them from killing me. I think it will do that just fine. Call me a wuss but I would rather have a attacker sueing me in court for what little I have than to have to think about him dead and if I could have, should have,or wished I had done something different. Now to defend my home/family I have .357/.40/9mm......to defend myself "out there" I just want him to go away........bleeding or not.

Z71bill
11-30-2012, 11:55
Wow. You may be the first to say that in the history of mouseguns.





I guess I am just that good! :rofl:

In single action - slow deliberate shots - my J frame with a 5" barrel is more accurate than the P-3AT.

But point and quickly shoot multiple shots at 10 feet or less - the P-3AT is more accurate than the J frame in double action.

racerford
11-30-2012, 11:57
If I'm too far away from a bad guy for me to get 5 of 7 COM hits with my LCP, then I'm far enough away to beat feet and escape!

I don't carry to hunt bad guys. I carry to discourage bad guys from keeping up with me while I run away screaming like a 4 year old girl.

Better run screaming like a 7 year old girl. They are a LOT faster than the 4 year old. You will be a lot less likely to be caught and they still have that really piercing, annoying scream like a 4 year old girl that would deter you being followed.





:supergrin:

G26S239
11-30-2012, 12:09
[QUOTE=G26S239;19247284]Okay Alice, I'll bite. Because the LCP size guns are a hell of a lot smaller than the small 9mms and with several hundred rounds my LCP is tested reliable. Your disapproval is noted.

..........

Yes but compare it against the Rohrbaugh 9MM. I used to carry a Seecamp .32 when it was not convenient to carry a Glock 29. The 29 is just as easy to carry as Model 26 (sub-compact 9mm, easier to shoot that the Model 33 (sub-compact .357SIG) and no body bag is needed, only a wetvac:whistling:.

When the Rohrbaugh became available I haven't carried the Seecamp since. The Rohrbaugh is slightly larger and much more potent. It's main drawback (besides cost) is frequent recoil spring replacement. The springs are cheap so not a big deal to me.
I just looked it up on the mouse gun board. The LCP is still smaller - not much in length - in width and height and weight. But I agree the 9mm is a much better round. I recently got a Beretta Nano that is slightly longer, taller and wider than my MK9 and weighs 19.8 ounces on my postal scale to goes in .2 ounce increments. The spring replacement schedule on your Rorbaugh sounds like a reasonable trade off for the reduced size and weight. Off hand can you tell me what the slide weight is on the Rorbaugh?.

I have a Seecamp LWS32 as well but put it up before I got the LCP because I could not get comfortable with the 60 grain ST out of a 2" barrel. Nice little gun though.

4 glocks
11-30-2012, 12:48
I have a G19, G26, Kahr CM9, J frame, and LCP.
Nothing carries like an LCP.

I am 54 and only pulled a gun on someone once in my life for SD. In the 1980's I was driving a cab as a part time job.
At 2 am I was sitting in a 7-11 parking lot. A guy pulled in to the lot, we were the only ones in the lot. The guy for no reason, (I never said a word to him) was telling me he was going to drag me out of the cab, kill me and rip my head off and ***** down my neck ect. ect. He was walking up to my door. I pulled a 2 shot 38 spl. Derringer out and he stopped in his tracks, eyes got the size of silver dollars, and started walking backwards. That 2 shot Derringer ended the attack.
I am glad it ended like it did, I did not want to have to shoot him.

The LCP should do just fine in a SD situation.

racerford
11-30-2012, 12:55
[quote=racerford;19684777]
...... Off hand can you tell me what the slide weight is on the Rorbaugh?.

.........


OK, It took mine down, and weighed it on a Postage.com electric scale and it weighed 4.9 ounces.

It was tricker to reassemble than I remember. But I figured out again, it was not hard. :supergrin:

F14Scott
11-30-2012, 13:11
If I'm too far away from a bad guy for me to get 5 of 7 COM hits with my LCP, then I'm far enough away to beat feet and escape!

I don't carry to hunt bad guys. I carry to discourage bad guys from keeping up with me while I run away screaming like a 4 year old girl.

Yep. I usually carry my G23, but have no worries about occasionally carrying my P3AT.

First, the odds of my ever needing to use either one are extremely low. Second, if I do use one of them, it will likely be me sending multiple rounds downrange at very close distance until the perp falls down or runs away. I consider long-range engagements or one-shot stops as very, very low-probability scenarios.

Mostly, anything that goes bang and throws a few little rocks will serve my purpose to discourage the bad guy from continuing with his present course of action.

phil evans
11-30-2012, 13:18
saami does not recognize +P in .380.
i've carried kel-tec p3at, ruger lcp, kahr380, S&W bodyguard, diamondback 380.
still retain S&W, Kel-tec, LCP.
mouse guns are on the cutting edge of technology.
for HD now have 9mm - g26gen4 & beretta nano.

G26S239
11-30-2012, 14:39
[quote=G26S239;19685352]


OK, It took mine down, and weighed it on a Postage.com electric scale and it weighed 4.9 ounces.

It was tricker to reassemble than I remember. But I figured out again, it was not hard. :supergrin:

Thanks :wavey:

deputy tom
11-30-2012, 17:24
For times I can't afford to be found out carrying I use a P32 in an UM pocket holster. Other times when less concerned I'll carry a J-frame or CM9 in a pocket holster. When I can wear a covering garment I'll wear a G17 or XD45 on a belt holster. Hardly ever carry a 1911 anymore but back in the days it was more often than not. YMMV. tom.:cool:

tous
11-30-2012, 17:33
For times I can't afford to be found out carrying I use a P32 in an UM pocket holster. Other times when less concerned I'll carry a J-frame or CM9 in a pocket holster. When I can wear a covering garment I'll wear a G17 or XD45 on a belt holster. Hardly ever carry a 1911 anymore but back in the days it was more often than not. YMMV. tom.:cool:

What pistol accessorizes the kilt?

deputy tom
11-30-2012, 17:40
What pistol accessorizes the kilt?

Seecamp 32 in the sporran just for formal occaissions.tom.:supergrin:

Dexters
11-30-2012, 19:23
Do you know the first rule of a gunfight? Bring a gun.

I know plenty of macho types who turn their nose up at mouse guns, who simply do not carry in circumstances where their bigger, heavier weapon is impractical or impossible to carry.

I can clip my P3AT into the waistband of a pair of jogging shorts or sweatpants and never even notice that it is there. Show me a nine you can do that with. I tell people that my P3AT is what I carry when I can't carry a gun. I would much rather have that in my hand than my Johnson, if trouble finds me though.

I usually carry a 5" Kimber CDP, but I am not always dressed in a way where I can carry it. I am always carrying something though. Eric

I have the S&W Bodyguard 380 in a Pocketroo holster and .75oz pepper spray. It all fits comfortably in the front pocket of my jeans - easily accessible. I use Federal Hydrashocks.

Would I rather have my Glock 26 or Kimber CDP II? Sure but the weight and size just doesn't make them my choice.

ithaca_deerslayer
11-30-2012, 20:58
I guess I am just that good! :rofl:

In single action - slow deliberate shots - my J frame with a 5" barrel is more accurate than the P-3AT.

But point and quickly shoot multiple shots at 10 feet or less - the P-3AT is more accurate than the J frame in double action.

Yeah, I'd agree that I'm more accurate at 10 yards or less quick shooting my LCP than I am in similar shooting with my 642.

And my wife is more accurate with the LCP over her 637 like that too. I suggested that very test.

But in slow fire at 25 yards? Both the 642 and 637 kick the LCP's butt.

Sure, plenty of user error is involved in these comparisons, but that is real life.

Just not sure why Foxterriermom isn't accurate with her 380 from inside a barn :)

ilgunguygt
11-30-2012, 21:21
I choose a .380 not to kill attackers but to stop them from killing me. I think it will do that just fine. Call me a wuss but I would rather have a attacker sueing me in court for what little I have than to have to think about him dead and if I could have, should have,or wished I had done something different. Now to defend my home/family I have .357/.40/9mm......to defend myself "out there" I just want him to go away........bleeding or not.
Really? I would say you are in the minority then.

Caver 60
11-30-2012, 22:31
I said it this summer and I'll say it again. I want a flat nose solid jacketed bullet in a 380. Plus P or not, is fine if you want that feature. But expanding bullets in a 380 are a joke, IMO. This is based on shooting lots of animals ranging from small four legged varmints to large, already dead, animals to observe bullet performance.

I want penetration, but a round nose bullet (while it has more penetration) doesn't give much tissue destruction. A round nose in a small animal doesn't make much of an exit hole. A flat nose makes a noticeably bigger exit hole. And if a 380 expands to any significant degree, it's not going to penetrate as deeply. Not very scientific I know.

I'm much more worried about misses than over-penetration in a 380 (and I think I'm a pretty good shot since I can hit moving varmints with my P3AT). I think the flat nose bullet is the best ticket for a 380.

For all of my other carry calibers, I want the best expanding bullet I can buy.

F14Scott
11-30-2012, 22:54
Horandy Critical Defense .380.

90gr at 950 FPS. 11" penetration and .436" average expansion through 4 layers of denim into ballistic gel.

Hornady Critical Defense .380 ACP 90 gr Ammo Test - YouTube

50 Cent
11-30-2012, 23:27
Be certain - get a Mak

Lone_Wolfe
12-01-2012, 00:16
........... I would much rather have that in my hand than my Johnson, if trouble finds me though.

...............

Guess it depends who you call trouble.... :supergrin:

Trapped_in_Kali
12-01-2012, 00:22
Nice.
Didn't you know that "The Modern 9MM Round" will go through 62" of armor plate and take out at least 92 bad guys with every shot (even around corners)? Will the 380 do that? :wavey:

If Kali believed in The Constitution and allowed CCW I might look at that set up (but would probably go for a G29. :cool:

Merkavaboy
12-01-2012, 02:34
OK I'm a G20 10 mm lover Best pistol ever made... I bought an LCP never thought I would but was wanting a small pocket pistol for those time not carrying my G20.. The Ruger LCP loaded 7 rounds Underwood +P 1150fps new hP would not be something I would want to be hit with.

LOOK out 9mm... The LCP 380+P is knocking once on your door and walking in.

Any other 380+ P lovers chim in on your experiences

Great little pistol with a punch :wow:

There's no such thing as .380 Auto +P.

With that being said, what I want to know is when you blow up your gun AND your hand and become crippled for life, who you gonna blame?

1) The gun manufacturer for not making a strong enough blow-back operated pistol to withstand non-standard high-pressured ammo?

2) The ammo manufacturer who made and marketed the non-standard high-pressured ammo?

3) Yourself for buying said ammo that was clearly marketed and duly noted as being non-standard high-pressured ammo?

But, hey, each to their own. You might want to get some accidental death and dismemberment insurance, just in case though.

Baba Louie
12-01-2012, 05:06
There's no such thing as .380 Auto +P.Some might disagree.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/550134/magtech-guardian-gold-ammunition-380-acp-p-85-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20

Z71bill
12-01-2012, 07:55
Some might disagree.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/550134/magtech-guardian-gold-ammunition-380-acp-p-85-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20

"Tough quality control standards along with tight manufacturing tolerances on most products in accordance with SAAMI, CIP, NATO, or US Mil. technical specifications ensure reliability, consistency, and safety.."

What about the others?