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Arc Angel
07-28-2012, 23:37
:) Hey! I was reading one of my daily devotionals today; and I thought about some of the genuinely perplexing questions I've been reading on how to stop these gun massacres like the recent Batman movie slaughter. I posted my thoughts on this subject in another thread the other night; however, the viewpoint went largely ignored by everyone except one rather angry fellow who decided to ramble on about, 'his faith' without stopping to reflect, for so much as a single moment, that every comment I made was founded in both the Old and New Testaments.

I'm a little confused. There is no question that America was founded upon and ran successfully for more than 200 years on the tenets and axioms I described; but, now and rather obviously, that's no longer true today. So, when one of my daily devotionals seemed to, 'hit the nail right on the head' I decided to share it with everyone (including all of you pharisee and atheist types). ;)

Here we go:

DAILY PROVERB 29:16

'When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth; but, the righteous shall see their fall.'

Learn here about trends, polls, majorities, sin, the future, and a right worldview. God and Solomon want you to understand what is happening and will happen in the world. Each proverb was written to teach you wisdom, this one included. As the world gets worse, you should understand why and not be surprised, and you should know its certain future. Here is crucial wisdom for your life with a profound invitation buried in one single word.

The wicked love a majority – they need a crowd to bring their sins out of the closet into public view. They think numbers justify their opinions and practices. As trends develop, the wicked jump on the sin bandwagon, because their hearts and minds were always sinful. They crave the encouragement of a majority to make their abominations and rebellion public. The effect is a geometric increase in wickedness, as in today’s world.

Consider the rule. As the wicked increase in proportion to any population, the overall wickedness increases even faster due to the growing majority providing support for greater individual rebellion. It is hard sometimes to separate the growth in numbers from the greater degree of depravity, as you will often see them both increasing together. When a combination of factors comes into play together, wickedness can explode.

Wicked men multiply and wickedness increases for many reasons. Unknown to most due to ignorance of the Bible, God hardens men’s hearts to greater wickedness by both prosperity and adversity, to justify His greater punishment of them for their sins.

REFER: Ex 7:3; 9:16; I Sam 2:25; Ps 106:14-15; Jer 48:11; Rom 1:18-32; & II Thess 2:9-12.

Let the LORD be magnified! If you do not know this, you cannot even get started to see things correctly.

Corrupt governments and sinful rulers increase evil by the example of their folly and sin in high offices by legislating approval of sin by not punishing criminals appropriately and by not rewarding righteous citizens for their good. Righteous authority in any segment of society can restrain wickedness by example and enforcement.

REFER: Ecc 10:5-7; 3:16; Es 1:16-18; Dan 3:1-7; Es 3:15; Ecc 8:11; Es 2:21-23; Pr 20:8,26; & Gen 18:19.

A decline in true religion increases wickedness. Pulpits are where men chosen by God are to preach forcefully against sin. This was once a major influence in America’s moral uprightness. But sinners do not like such preaching, so they ask for a gentler message by false teachers like Joel Osteen or Rick Warren. When this happens, as it is now around the world, wickedness increases. Instead of a preservative of righteousness like salt, they are more like gasoline on a fire.

REFER: Is 58:1, 30:8-14; II Tim 4:3-4; & Matt 5:13.

Humanistic education increases sin. When God-haters get the insane theory of evolution into the schools, they eliminate the restraint of a Creator with moral laws and the power of temporal and eternal punishment. Joined with the idol of existential self-love and self-esteem, children can do anything they wish, with the only guide of pleasing themselves. The fear of God creating a restraint is gone.

REFER: Ps 4:4, 14:1-5, 36:1; Pr 9:10; & Eccl 12:13-14.

Immoral entertainment increases sinfulness. The Beatles and Hollywood ruined morals everywhere, as they perverted their own. The shorthaired boys with white shirts and ties from Liverpool quickly degenerated to drug-stupefied, girlish devotees of Hamburg brothels and Hindu gurus. Consider the difference of Ben Hur (1959) and Titanic (1997). The entertainment industry is condemned before God.

REFER: Ps 101:3; Pr 14:9; & Rom 1:32.

The news media, which greatly influences society’s judgment of events, increases wickedness. They have not honestly reported a moral issue in decades – they are incapable of it for the factors above. They defend and promote the same insanity taught in the schools and glamorized in entertainment. Their slanting of all moral issues and blatant hatred for Bible Christianity reveals their devilish agenda. They are damned to fall.

Technological advances have increased evil. The influences above would have little effect without the modern ability to expose the earth’s population to them for little cost. Techno sins describes technology that allows or furthers wickedness. Witty inventions are good when used for God’s glory, man’s righteousness, or a better standard of living. Every parent today faces threats to their children never imagined before!

REFER: Pr 8:12.

Urbanization increases wickedness. The countryside is better than the city. As people leave rural areas of wise local ordinances, safe traditions, and fewer ways to sin for large cities, sinfulness increases. The more they pack together in a city, the more this proverb takes effect. God identified this factor when men united at Babel to rebel against Him. He divided nations and set boundaries for spiritual good.

REFER: Gen 11:1-9; & Acts 17:26-27.

Much, much more could be said about these factors that cause wicked men to multiply and increase their transgressions against God’s laws. Wise men that understand the times will consider these things soberly and research them out even further. These are the perilous times of the last days, which scripture foretold. Hear God’s warning: prepare to stand against even greater sinfulness.

REFER: I Chr 12:32; Esth 1:13; Eccl 8:1; II Tim 3:1-17, & 4:1-4.

Once this snowball starts downhill, it gathers speed and size. As wicked men increase in number and individual rebellion, the result is a compounded increase in evil. If there are several factors working together at once, as presently; when all parts of society are rushing into sin under many influences, and God is allowing it to occur; you can count on a catastrophic event to occur soon to destroy them all for the righteous to see. Amen!

Consider the lesson illustrated. For 1500 years after creation, the wicked multiplied numerically by polygamy. This increase in numbers brought greater boldness in sinning, which God saw. In holy anger, God destroyed them all, suffocating them in a worldwide flood. He saved righteous Noah and his immediate family, who saw the entire earth’s population drowned.

REFER: Gen 4:19, 6:1-2, & 6:5, 6:6-7, 6:8; & Heb 11:7.

Consider another illustration. Wicked men gathered in the watered plains of the Jordan about 2000 B.C. Their cities were Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim. This conflux of wicked men led to one of man’s most abominable perversions – sodomy. What an increase of transgression! God had made the perfect Eve for Adam, not another man named Steve! But these perverts abused each other. God burned them all to ashes! Abraham saw the smoke of the fall of the cities.

REFER: Gen 2:18-25, 19:1-7; Rom 1:24-27; I Cor 6:9; & Gen 19:27-28.

It is similar today. Wicked men and their sins have increased by all the factors above in the last two generations. Two men in a bed is not a marriage in the Bible or in hardly any time of human history. Yet the rabid hatred of these perverts against the Bible, Christians, and traditional cultural and legal norms is shocking. Get ready. A fiery inferno is coming to burn the universe to destroy them. If you believe in opposite sex marriage out of fear of God, you will only see the judgment.

REFER: II Thes 1:7-10; II Pet 3:10-14; & Rev 20:7-15).

Christian reader, do not let the increase of the wicked and their perversion of everything good trouble you. Jesus Christ – the coming Judge of the world – told His apostles, “These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world”. A new heaven and earth are coming for you, rejoice and live soberly.

REFER: Jn 16:33; & II Pet 3:10-14.

Do not let increasing iniquity in the world and in most churches cause your fear and love of God to turn lukewarm or cold, as it did for many following the Jews’ crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ. Just forty years later, the righteous saw God’s vengeance on the Jews for the death of His Son, through more horrific tribulation on that nation than has ever occurred at any other time.

REFER: Matt 24:12; Luke 21:20-24; Matt 22:1-7; & I Thess 2:14-16.

While the wicked take comfort in their swelling ranks, remember that God has already declared that anything they highly esteem is an abomination to Him. He has already declared the world’s wisdom to be foolishness. He has already declared them His enemy. If you choose God’s side and His righteousness, you are part of a large, totally victorious kingdom.

REFER: Luke 16:15; I Cor 1:19-21; 3:18-20; Jas 4:4; Heb 12:22-24; & Re 7:9.

What is the coming catastrophic event, when the righteous will see all the wicked fall? It is the second coming of Jesus Christ, as Lord of heaven and earth, when the great Day of Judgment will occur, and every man will give an account of himself to the holy God of the Bible. All the wicked will be cast into the lake of fire for eternal torment.

REFER: Eccl 12:13-14; Rom 14:10-12; II Cor 5:9-11; Rev 20:11-15; Matt 7:21-23; Matt 25:41, & 46; & Jn 5:28-29.

The proverb taught several lessons about societal changes and coming judgment. But do you see the most important lesson? There are righteous men and women in the proverb! They are different from the wicked! They only see the destruction of the wicked – for God will spare them in His fury. Are you one of the righteous? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and start living His righteousness today.

REFER: Ps 37:34, 58:10-11, 91:8); II Pet 1:5-11.

PROVIDED BY: Proverbs@LetGodBeTrue.com

www.LetGodBeTrue.com, 212 Standing Springs Road, Simpsonville, SC 29680

Animal Mother
07-29-2012, 00:43
I'm a little confused. There is no question that America was founded upon and ran successfully for more than 200 years on the tenets and axioms I described; but, now and rather obviously, that's no longer true today. What tenets and axioms would those be exactly? Is it your position that the world today, and specifically the US, is more evil than it was 150-200 years ago?

Arc Angel
07-29-2012, 10:12
Animal, is that a serious question? :headscratch:

High-Gear
07-29-2012, 10:37
Statistically, the less religious a society, the safer it is.

Now stop trying to blame hideous acts on the nation pulling away from your superstitious beliefs. I'm sick of every time there is a killing, or a natural disaster, Christians blaming homosexuals, and secularists!

Atheism Statistics - YouTube

Cavalry Doc
07-29-2012, 11:25
I can see this shaping up already.

Anyway, it's a problem with many factors, almost more than you can count. There is a lot of free will involved too. Regardless what religious belief people have, there will be good ones and bad ones in just about every group.

I'm afraid that it's human nature for a certain percentage of people to be awful to others, regardless of how much you try to convince them otherwise.

hogfish
07-29-2012, 11:32
"Righteous authority in any segment of society can restrain wickedness by example and enforcement."

:worried:

Guss
07-29-2012, 17:35
What tenets and axioms would those be exactly? Is it your position that the world today, and specifically the US, is more evil than it was 150-200 years ago?
I'm thinking that we are in a more peaceful world. Major world powers don't go to war with each other any more. The Internet has turned us into a global village.

In our home country, violent crime rates are down for the fifth straight year.

But if we are looking for a source of what evil there is, please note that the number of atheists in prison is far less than their proportion within the general population, so it must be somebody else coming up with the evil.

Yes, there are some cesspools in parts of the world where they don't believe in things like equality and freedom of belief, but give them time and they will learn just like we did.

MikeSantor
07-29-2012, 18:10
Statistically, the less religious a society, the safer it is.

Now stop trying to blame hideous acts on the nation pulling away from your superstitious beliefs.


You are right, "Religion" has been the cause of every major war for thousands of years.

What I will tell you is you have to be careful how you stereotype people. Just because people of a certain faith or "religion" "blame hideous acts on the nation pulling away from your superstitious beliefs... a killing, or a natural disaster" is because we realize that there is only good and evil, Darkness and light. If an act is not of God, It is of Satan. Plain and simple. There is no grey area, there is no in between.

Also, be careful not to stereotype anyone that reads a bible or talks/teaches of the Kingdom of God as being apart of a "religion". I read my bible, teach of the Kingdom of heaven and God's love but hate religion as that is what Jesus taught. Jesus went up against religion time after time in the bible...

Just something to think about before you make typical stereotype comments to anyone that quotes the bible or teaches of the Kingdom of God.

High-Gear
07-29-2012, 18:45
You are right, "Religion" has been the cause of every major war for thousands of years.

What I will tell you is you have to be careful how you stereotype people. Just because people of a certain faith or "religion" "blame hideous acts on the nation pulling away from your superstitious beliefs... a killing, or a natural disaster" is because we realize that there is only good and evil, Darkness and light. If an act is not of God, It is of Satan. Plain and simple. There is no grey area, there is no in between.

Also, be careful not to stereotype anyone that reads a bible or talks/teaches of the Kingdom of God as being apart of a "religion". I read my bible, teach of the Kingdom of heaven and God's love but hate religion as that is what Jesus taught. Jesus went up against religion time after time in the bible...

Just something to think about before you make typical stereotype comments to anyone that quotes the bible or teaches of the Kingdom of God.

I wasn't stereotyping, as I didn't say every Christian. I said I specifically tire of Christians who blame a flood on homosexuals, or a shooting on secularists who have forced god out of the classroom.

After 9/11 and Katrina these were the excuses given. A polititan said e movie massacre was because god has removed his protection from us, due to secularists having prayer taken out of school. What BS!

How would you like to be blamed for such atrocities?

MikeSantor
07-29-2012, 19:01
I wasn't stereotyping, as I didn't say every Christian. I said I specifically tire of Christians who blame a flood on homosexuals, or a shooting on secularists who have forced god out of the classroom.

After 9/11 and Katrina these were the excuses given. A polititan said e movie massacre was because god has removed his protection from us, due to secularists having prayer taken out of school. What BS!

How would you like to be blamed for such atrocities?

Although you did not say every Christian, you did bring up a whole list, in which I quoted, of things that Arc never said a word about. Since Arc did not mention any of the stuff you were "sick of" yet his post was about his faith, weather you like it or not you made a direct correlation to Christians as a whole.

For you to bring that stuff up is putting people like Arc and myself in the same category as those people.

High-Gear
07-29-2012, 19:36
Although you did not say every Christian, you did bring up a whole list, in which I quoted, of things that Arc never said a word about. Since Arc did not mention any of the stuff you were "sick of" yet his post was about his faith, weather you like it or not you made a direct correlation to Christians as a whole.

For you to bring that stuff up is putting people like Arc and myself in the same category as those people.

He specifically spoke of sodomy and homosexuals, humanistic education, and the teaching of evolution. It is plain among other things he is point the finger at the two targets I pointed out.

He also points out if you are not with god you are "wicked" and will be destroyed.

The American Taliban Strikes Again.

Arc Angel
07-29-2012, 19:58
Although you did not say every Christian, you did bring up a whole list, in which I quoted, of things that Arc never said a word about. Since Arc did not mention any of the stuff you were "sick of" yet his post was about his faith, weather you like it or not you made a direct correlation to Christians as a whole.

For you to bring that stuff up is putting people like Arc and myself in the same category as those people.

:shocked: Aren't some of these responses amazing! I find myself wondering how some of these guys find their way to work, everyday? This, also, has me wondering how many respondents actually took the time to read what I posted?

Thank you, Mike! It amuses me to note that, in certain respects, you and I are a lot alike. I read the Bible everyday too, always say grace and thank God for, both, the protection I enjoy as well as the food that I eat; and I, also, have a nearly impossible time trying to associating myself with any of the popular religions. The way I see things too many contemporary religions (including the original one) have drifted away from, both, God and His expressed will.

Still, I know better than to categorically blame everything that's wrong with the world on either God, Himself, or popular religions. The Christ did say, 'Enter ye in at the strait gate; for, wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction; and many there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.' - Matthew 7:13-14

These remarks are closely followed by Christ's admonitions against false prophets and their specious teachings: 'Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing; but, inwardly, they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so, every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but, a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit; neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. ....... Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.' - Matthew 7:15-20

My personal experience? As you've indicated: Attempting to be a true Christian is, indeed, a lonely, often difficult to discern, path to spiritual salvation. Sometimes the only thing I'm certain of is that salvation, itself, does indeed exist. The, 'trick' is to avoid: evil in all of its myriad forms, both extrinsic and intrinsic human nature, (Which can be overwhelming!) and the many lazy and self-serving temptations which make it so very difficult for every mortal soul to finally discover itself.

The scriptures from Saint Matthew quoted above, though, are good advice. I do, and have for many years, tended to evaluate my fellowman NOT by what I'm told, NOT by what someone says to me, but by actions and deeds instead. (Nobody said it was going to be easy - Right!) ;)

High-Gear
07-29-2012, 20:04
Read my post above your last. You singled out homosexuals, and those who would teach evolution as wicked, and worth of gods destruction. You also elude to this nation being founded as a christian nation. Did I misunderstand?

MikeSantor
07-29-2012, 20:12
Read my post above your last. You singled out homosexuals, and those who would teach evolution as wicked, and worth of gods destruction.

Yes and No in my opinion. Its not, worthy of God's destruction, its Unworthy of God's grace.

I will quote myself here:

there is only good and evil, Darkness and light. If an act is not of God, It is of Satan. Plain and simple. There is no grey area, there is no in between.


Evolution is a deceptive lie. A lie is not worthy of Gods grace and is punishable by eternal separation from God.

Homosexuality is unnatural and not as God intended. Therefor it is punishable by separation from eternity with God.

Again, there is no grey. If its not light, it is dark. If it is not truth, it is lie. If it is not of God, it is of Satan.


Gear, Be advised. Im not looking down on you pointing my finger, just trying to help you understand where true followers of the word stand.

High-Gear
07-29-2012, 20:24
Yes and No in my opinion. Its not, worthy of God's destruction, its Unworthy of God's grace.

I will quote myself here:



Evolution is a deceptive lie. A lie is not worthy of Gods grace and is punishable by eternal separation from God.

Homosexuality is unnatural and not as God intended. Therefor it is punishable by separation from eternity with God.

Again, there is no grey. If its not light, it is dark. If it is not truth, it is lie. If it is not of God, it is of Satan.


Gear, Be advised. Im not looking down on you pointing my finger, just trying to help you understand where true followers of the word stand.

It is a good thing I care not what you, nor any other "true follower" thinks. Not untill you start pushing it into public policy. In other words, keep it to yourself.


Believe in bronze age myths if you like. Heck, believe in rocks if you wish, just don't cast them at me!

MikeSantor
07-29-2012, 20:30
It is a good thing I care not what you, nor any other "true follower" thinks. Not untill you start pushing it into public policy. In other words, keep it to yourself.


Believe in bronze age myths if you like. Heck, believe in rocks if you wish, just don't cast them at me!

If you don't care what we think why did you wonder over to the " Religious Issues" section of GT?

If you don't believe in God and don't care what we think, that leads me to believe you are just here to start pointless arguments?

What makes them pointless? Well the fact that you dont believe, You dont care to believe, you dont care to or find interest in what we think, etc. So really, there is no point in you coming in here and posting at all...

Kind of like the (insert brand here) fanboy that comes to a Glock forum and Hates glocks and just posts about how crappy they are. If you dont like them why are you here?

High-Gear
07-29-2012, 20:43
If you don't care what we think why did you wonder over to the " Religious Issues" section of GT?

If you don't believe in God and don't care what we think, that leads me to believe you are just here to start pointless arguments?

What makes them pointless? Well the fact that you dont believe, You dont care to believe, you dont care to or find interest in what we think, etc. So really, there is no point in you coming in here and posting at all...

Kind of like the (insert brand here) fanboy that comes to a Glock forum and Hates glocks and just posts about how crappy they are. If you dont like them why are you here?

I said I don't care what you think of me.

I'm open to discussion, but I will stand up to blatent homophobia and attacks on reason, science, and education. As long as you guys wish to post that which can be disproved, in an attempt to spread your beliefs, I will try to counter in an attempt to spread enlightenment.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
07-29-2012, 20:50
The hyperbole from this church is little more than apocolyptic silliness. It focuses too much on blaming institutions and not changing people's hearts. It's sort of ironic that they have adopted the blame mentality so characteristic of secularists.

Some of the statements from LetGodBeTrue (my comments in blue):


"Learn here about trends, polls, majorities, sin, the future, and a right worldview." AND "As the world gets worse..."
They present no scientific, legal, or historical, or even biblical evidence to substantiate that the world is actually getting worse.



"Corrupt governments and sinful rulers increase evil..."
I see no evidence of more corruption at this time in history. Measuring this with validity and reliability is extremely difficult.



"Technological advances have increased evil."
Gunpowder? Gutenberg? Iphones? This statement sounds like something from the Unabomber.


"A decline in true religion increases wickedness."
Religion ebbs and flows through eras: Renaissance, Industrial Revolution, etc. These peaks and valleys are contrary to this church's statement As the world gets worse.



"The Beatles and Hollywood ruined morals everywhere,..."
I personally think that some popular culture confirmed beliefs about America's gradual decline in the world. We continue to see this decline with the rise of Asia. Religious people (and others) vehemently like to deny this and lash out at their hated institutions.



I could also point to examples where America is getting better. Slavery is gone. We no longer slaughter Indians (of course, we already got rid of them).


I actually partially agree with some of their assessments, including urban-rural differences, humanistic education, and the dumb media. They discuss these with such ludicrous language and syntax however, so it's hard to take them seriously.

MikeSantor
07-29-2012, 20:54
I said I don't care what you think of me.

This is my problem with people like yourself. When you try to be as polite and inviting as possible when explaining your beliefs to them and they just cross there arms and say "well I really dont care what you think of me..." as if I am sitting on top of some high horse looking down on "all sinners".

Thus the reason I posted:

Gear, Be advised. Im not looking down on you pointing my finger, just trying to help you understand where true followers of the word stand.

First you say you don't care what we think and we should keep it to ourselves, Then you say you are open for discussion, then you just go with the always prevalent "well I don't care what you think about me anyways..." Its really a vicious cycle that never gets anywhere.

High-Gear
07-29-2012, 21:36
This is my problem with people like yourself. When you try to be as polite and inviting as possible when explaining your beliefs to them and they just cross there arms and say "well I really dont care what you think of me..." as if I am sitting on top of some high horse looking down on "all sinners".

I guess I missed all the politeness in the OP. i don't see being called wicked and being told I will be destroyed very polite.
Being told if it is not of your truth it is a lie, not of your god it is of satan, which goes along with the first post. So while you are not pointing your finger, you are telling me from your standpoint, and that of all tru believers, I am of Satan's evil and doomed to hell. So very polite of you.

The original post explicitly pointed to the increasing evil being a departure from the tenents and axioms, he further explained, which included secularism and homosexuality. You echoed the belief saying they were not of god, so they are of Satan.

Again, I don't care what you think of me personally, I simply think the OP's sermon was anti-gay, anti-education, and anti-secularist. The OP posted his sermon for the "atheist types" and I gave him my opinion. I'm you or the OP don't like the feedback, stop putting it out there.

Animal Mother
07-29-2012, 21:54
Animal, is that a serious question? :headscratch:It certainly does appear to be one. Would you care to answer it?

Animal Mother
07-29-2012, 22:01
Evolution is a deceptive lie. A lie is not worthy of Gods grace and is punishable by eternal separation from God. This is false, if you're willing to make one false statement, why should we trust the other claims you put forth?
Homosexuality is unnatural and not as God intended. Therefor it is punishable by separation from eternity with God. Please share your evidence that homosexuality is unnatural.
Again, there is no grey. If its not light, it is dark. If it is not truth, it is lie. If it is not of God, it is of Satan. What you wrote about evolution is not true. By your standard stated here, it is a lie. Apparently that means that your statement, and by extension yourself, is of Satan.

SPIN2010
07-29-2012, 22:12
Please share your evidence that homosexuality is unnatural.

I'll take this one for fifty Alex!

Who wants their offspring (son or daughter) to be a homosexual? Please sign in and say that you do. No, not with twenty things ("X") that are worse than being a homosexual, so I would rather they be a homosexual than "X". State it in pure fact that is what you want for your son or daughter in this life.

Seems to me that would be a natural proof.

Blast
07-29-2012, 22:21
This is false, if you're willing to make one false statement, why should we trust the other claims you put forth?
Please share your evidence that homosexuality is unnatural.
What you wrote about evolution is not true. By your standard stated here, it is a lie. Apparently that means that your statement, and by extension yourself, is of Satan.

Evolution is the evidence.
Have already explained that a while back. You refuse to accept the evidence because you are biased and a minion of the gay agenda.

Don't bother trying your double speak/smoke and mirrors/diversionary tactics, and lies.
I don't play your silly BS games.

Animal Mother
07-29-2012, 22:22
I'll take this one for fifty Alex!

Who wants their offspring (son or daughter) to be a homosexual? Please sign in and say that you do. No, not with twenty things ("X") that are worse than being a homosexual, so I would rather they be a homosexual than "X". State it in pure fact that is what you want for your son or daughter in this life.

Seems to me that would be a natural proof.I'd say it wouldn't matter one way or the other, nor would whether or not someone would want to be homosexual have any bearing on if it was natural or not. I wouldn't want my child to have Tay-Sachs disease or Spina bifida. Does that mean they're not natural either?

Snapper2
07-29-2012, 22:22
I'll take this one for fifty Alex!

Who wants their offspring (son or daughter) to be a homosexual? Please sign in and say that you do. No, not with twenty things ("X") that are worse than being a homosexual, so I would rather they be a homosexual than "X". State it in pure fact that is what you want for your son or daughter in this life.

Seems to me that would be a natural proof.
Would I want them to be homosexual? No. Would I love them the "same"? Good question. I would hope I could. So it should be the same for those that arent my offspring. I should treat them the same. Is it natural? No not to me, but neither is God's love for us.

Arc Angel
07-29-2012, 22:29
This is false, if you're willing to make one false statement, why should we trust the other claims you put forth?

Yeah, like I've never read anything false posted by you! I've got to ask: Since when have Animal Mother's posts become undisputed exemplars of abstruse absolute truths?

Please share your evidence that homosexuality is unnatural.

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7072/10802887.jpg

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9887/30123894.jpg

How's that! 'Mr. Natural' himself. (Want more pictures?) :supergrin:

What you wrote about evolution is not true. By your standard stated here, it is a lie. Apparently that means that your statement, and by extension yourself, is of Satan.

:upeyes: Come on, Animal. The most that can be demonstrated with any degree of credibility is that the account of creation given by the Prophet Moses inside the Book of Genesis is, most likely, an allegory - One that contains important spiritual truths. By the way you don't really want to start a contest around here for who is, or isn't, most like Satan - Do you? ;)

Animal Mother
07-29-2012, 22:42
Evolution is the evidence.
Have already explained that a while back. You refuse to accept the evidence because you are biased and a minion of the gay agenda. Your errors were also explained, yet you continue to repeat the same argument.
Don't bother trying your double speak/smoke and mirrors/diversionary tactics, and lies.
I don't play your silly BS games. Nor do you consider the facts apparently.

Animal Mother
07-29-2012, 22:49
Yeah, like I've never read anything false posted by you! When did I post anything false?
I've got to ask: Since when have Animal Mother's posts become undisputed exemplars of abstruse absolute truths? They're disputed all the time, but I haven't seen anyone show that anything I've written is false. More importantly, I haven't seen anyone show that I've knowingly claimed something which was false, such as:Evolution is a deceptive lie.
But do feel free to show that I'm making false statements.
How's that! 'Mr. Natural' himself. (Want more pictures?) :supergrin: Not especially, but an answer to the questions asked previously would be nice. As would not trying to falsely equate homosexuality with sexual abuse of children.
:upeyes: Come on, Animal. The most that can be demonstrated with any degree of credibility is that the account of creation given by the Prophet Moses inside the Book of Genesis is, most likely, an allegory - One that contains important spiritual truths. By the way you don't really want to start a contest around here for who is, or isn't, most like Satan - Do you? ;)Why don't we wait until you produce those falsehoods I've posted before we answer that?

Syclone538
07-29-2012, 22:59
There is no polite way to say "You are going to hell."

There is no polite way to say "Your most sacred beliefs are lies."

We should all try to remember that and try harder to not be offended.

High-Gear
07-29-2012, 23:00
I'll take this one for fifty Alex!

Who wants their offspring (son or daughter) to be a homosexual? Please sign in and say that you do. No, not with twenty things ("X") that are worse than being a homosexual, so I would rather they be a homosexual than "X". State it in pure fact that is what you want for your son or daughter in this life.

Seems to me that would be a natural proof.

I want a homosexual child. I have absolutely no say in the matter, but I'd be happy with any child. All I could hope is that child is happy, if so I'll be happy.

High-Gear
07-29-2012, 23:05
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7072/10802887.jpg

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9887/30123894.jpg

How's that! 'Mr. Natural' himself. (Want more pictures?) :supergrin: )



Since when did gay, equal pedophile? Most pedophiles are hetero sexual. Grown men perping on under age girls!

High-Gear
07-30-2012, 09:08
I'll take this one for fifty Alex!

Who wants their offspring (son or daughter) to be a homosexual? Please sign in and say that you do. No, not with twenty things ("X") that are worse than being a homosexual, so I would rather they be a homosexual than "X". State it in pure fact that is what you want for your son or daughter in this life.

Seems to me that would be a natural proof.

Get Educated About Homosexuality - YouTube

MikeSantor
07-30-2012, 09:32
Please share your evidence that homosexuality is unnatural.


I will answer this question with a question.

Show me 2 gay men that have conceived a child.

Show me 2 gay women's that have conceived a child.

Go ahead, ill wait...

Arc Angel
07-30-2012, 09:33
Since when did gay, equal pedophile? Most pedophiles are hetero sexual (SIC). Grown men perping on under age girls!

I didn't say that, 'gay' (You mean, 'homosexual'; don't you!) ;) equals, 'pedophile'. You made that connection all by yourself. In biblical terms both homosexuals and pedophiles are broadly classed as Sodomites (or moral reprobates). I was referring to UNNATURAL HUMAN BEHAVIORS; you are the one who made an additional association and extended the definition beyond its original intent - Not me.

Freudian slip on your part, huh! :supergrin:

Animal Mother
07-30-2012, 09:36
I will answer this question with a question.

Show me 2 gay men that have conceived a child.

Show me 2 gay women's that have conceived a child.

Go ahead, ill wait...Is reproduction life's only purpose? Should sterile people also be considered unnatural?

Animal Mother
07-30-2012, 09:38
I didn't say that, 'gay' (You mean, 'homosexual'; don't you!) ;) equals, 'pedophile'. You made that connection all by yourself. In biblical terms both homosexuals and pedophiles are broadly classed as Sodomites (or moral reprobates). I was referring to UNNATURAL HUMAN BEHAVIORS; you are the one who made an additional association and extended the definition beyond its original intent - Not me.

Freudian slip on your part, huh! :supergrin:Don't be disingenuous, you're the one who posted pictures of Jerry Sandusky, who's a convicted child molester, in response to a discussion about homosexuals. No one made a leap other than you.

Syclone538
07-30-2012, 09:39
...
Please share your evidence that homosexuality is unnatural.
...

...
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7072/10802887.jpg

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9887/30123894.jpg

How's that! 'Mr. Natural' himself. (Want more pictures?) :supergrin:
...

I didn't say that, 'gay' (You mean, 'homosexual'; don't you!) ;) equals, 'pedophile'. You made that connection all by yourself. In biblical terms both homosexuals and pedophiles are broadly classed as Sodomites (or moral reprobates). I was referring to UNNATURAL HUMAN BEHAVIORS; you are the one who made an additional association and extended the definition beyond its original intent - Not me.

Freudian slip on your part, huh! :supergrin:

You're joking, right?

High-Gear
07-30-2012, 09:44
I didn't say that, 'gay' (You mean, 'homosexual'; don't you!) ;) equals, 'pedophile'. You made that connection all by yourself. In biblical terms both homosexuals and pedophiles are broadly classed as Sodomites (or moral reprobates). I was referring to UNNATURAL HUMAN BEHAVIORS; you are the one who made an additional association and extended the definition beyond its original intent - Not me.

Freudian slip on your part, huh! :supergrin:

Another example of a liar who is going to burn in hell! :tongueout:

Arc Angel
07-30-2012, 10:16
Another example of a liar who is going to burn in hell!

:shocked: Opps! Made you mad, didn't I. :supergrin:

That is a petulant foul-tempered remark. It is, also, completely untrue. Aren't you aware that The Christ has warned us,

'But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment; for, by thy words thou shalt be justified; and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.' - The Gospel Of Matthew 12:36-37

You're doing yourself even less good by posting lies like this on the Internet. We only know you by your screen name; but God both knows and sees your heart. (Even the very hairs of your head are numbered!) I think you need to learn that none of us ever get away with anything; we only think that we do. ;)

High-Gear
07-30-2012, 10:27
:shocked: Opps! Made you mad, didn't I. :supergrin:

That is a petulant foul-tempered remark. It is, also, completely untrue. Aren't you aware that The Christ has warned us,

'But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment; for, by thy words thou shalt be justified; and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.' - The Gospel Of Matthew 12:36-37

You're doing yourself even less good by posting lies like this on the Internet. We only know you by your screen name; but God both knows and sees your heart. (Even the very hairs of your head are numbered!) I think you need to learn that none of us ever get away with anything; we only think that we do. ;)

You quoted me, and deleted the smiley. Obviously trying to misrepresnt my joke. Way to twist things, and use it as an excuse to insert your moral superiority, oops I mean hipocracy.

Arc Angel
07-31-2012, 05:57
Don't be disingenuous, you're the one who posted pictures of Jerry Sandusky, who's a convicted child molester, in response to a discussion about homosexuals. No one made a leap other than you.

:rofl:

You're funny! You know? I must be getting, 'out of touch'. Lately, I've been called names and had appellations applied to me on the Internet that nobody else in my entire long life has ever before said to me. (Hiding behind a computer screen really seems to bring out the, 'alter ego' in some people; doesnít it!) ;)

I think I need to learn more about how to deal with, 'internet courage'. I'm not really a part of the, 'computer generation'; and a lot of this courageous, 'verbal diarrhea' thatís been coming at me is still all new. Tell you what: I won't be disingenuous (disingenuous? :shocked: ) if you won't be a perverted dissembler of fundamental spiritual truths - An individual who likes to muddle around in GT's Religious Forum twisting right into wrong, and wrong into right. How's that? Straightforward enough for you! :cool:

(Jerry Sandusky is, by the way, a convicted HOMOSEXUAL PEDOPHILE. Donít confuse intellectual concepts or terms. Call Sandusky what he actually is - Not what youíd like him to be.)

You're joking, right?

Nooo ÖÖ , I'm not even close to joking; and, it should be obvious that I'm not being, 'disingenuous' either. I'm deliberately pointing out the pseudo-intellectual discrepancies in too much of the immoral rationale posted, so far, in this thread. Neither will God be joking when He continues this conversation with you at a future time. (You have Christís promise on it!) :)

You seem to think you're unusually clever and can jest on the Internet in anyway you like - All of it without consequence. I'm telling you that isnít going to happen! Sooner or later every single one of us is going to have to answer for each and every: word, thought, and deed expressed in this life. As Christ said, 'From the very greatest to the very least.' Thatís an awesome responsibility! (As I've previously mentioned, you might want to, 'hold that thought'.)

You quoted me, and deleted the smiley. Obviously trying to misrepresnt (SIC) my joke. Way to twist things, and use it as an excuse to insert your moral superiority, oops I mean hipocracy (SIC).

Smiley or not, no matter how you couch your remark, you and I both know that you werenít kidding. Frankly, I donít have to twist anything; you seem to have already done that all by yourself without any help from me.

Moral superiority? Hipocracy? You keep doing it! First, you make a broad assumption; next, you draw your own conclusion(s), apparently condemn yourself in the process, and promptly turn around to look for someone else to blame!

Perhaps I should point out that it is neither your decision, nor mine as to who does or does not go to Hell. Those decisions are spiritual conclusions that occur at the end of material existence, and are on a higher plane of personal awareness than the conscious mind is normally accustomed to considering. Sacred Scripture euphemistically refers to this soulful experience as, ĎThe Final Judgmentí. Truth be told: I canít send you to Hell for your mistakes; and you canít send me to Hell for mine. Only God can do that!

Wherein, then, lies either the hypocrisy or moral superiority? Iím simply stating ancient and formerly well-known spiritual truths. Being allowed to sin is NOT the same thing as being allowed to get away with it. If, in fact, there is a God in Heaven then none of us are going to get away with anything! Reflect on these scriptures; they might help you to understand what Iím getting at:

ĎThou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: The demons also believe, and tremble.í - The Book Of James 2:19

ĎTo Me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time; for, the day of their calamity is at hand; and, the things that shall come upon them make haste.í The Book Of Deuteronomy 32:35

ĎBe not a witness against thy neighbour without cause; and deceive not with thy lips. Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me; I will render to the man according to his work.í - The Book Of Proverbs 24:28-29

ĎDo not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.í - Saint Paulís Epistle To The Romans 12:17

Are you starting to get the idea? Iím not being disingenuous; Iím not playing word games with any of you in the same way that each of you has done with me. Why? Because I know better! I stand among the very last of people who would deliberately condemn himself out of his own mouth.

Iím not going to deliberately tell lies about anybody - In fact I wonít even imply them! Would that you people had demonstrated the same maturity and self-discipline with me. Yes! Then again, in defense of these sordid behaviors this is the Internet; you are all disbelievers; and I guess, truth be told, I should have expected as much. You've, now, accomplished your goal. You dissembled what should have been a spiritually uplifting thread. Now all you've got to do is get away with it.

Do you think that's going to happen? ;)

Animal Mother
07-31-2012, 06:39
:rofl:

You're funny! You know? I must be getting, 'out of touch'. Lately, I've been called names and had appellations applied to me on the Internet that nobody else in my entire long life has ever before said to me. (Hiding behind a computer screen really seems to bring out the, 'alter ego' in some people; doesnít it!) ;) Perhaps you hide your deceitful behavior better in places where you are known. Don't assume the fault lays with others.
I think I need to learn more about how to deal with, 'internet courage'. Answering the questions asked of you seems like it might be a good first step.
I'm not really a part of the, 'computer generation'; and a lot of this courageous, 'verbal diarrhea' thatís been coming at me is still all new. Tell you what: I won't be disingenuous (disingenuous? :shocked: ) if you won't be a perverted dissembler of fundamental spiritual truths - An individual who likes to muddle around in GT's Religious Forum twisting right into wrong, and wrong into right. How's that? Straightforward enough for you! :cool: Please do demonstrate that I've done any such thing.
(Jerry Sandusky is, by the way, a convicted HOMOSEXUAL PEDOPHILE. Donít confuse intellectual concepts or terms. Call Sandusky what he actually is - Not what youíd like him to be.) Got it. So you were attempting to make the connection then. Jerry Sandusky is also a CAUCASIAN PEDOPHILE. Should we draw conclusions from that? What conclusions should we draw from all the CHRISTIAN PEDOPHILES constantly being arrested across the country?

BTW, do you have any intention of answering the questions I asked in the second post of the thread?

Syclone538
07-31-2012, 09:18
...
Nooo ÖÖ , I'm not even close to joking; and, it should be obvious that I'm not being, 'disingenuous' either.
...

The only option that leaves makes it completely pointless to have any discussion with you.

Kingarthurhk
07-31-2012, 16:52
This is what I know about this world. I am weary. I am tired of it. I don't want to be here anymore. I just want to go home.

High-Gear
07-31-2012, 17:16
This is what I know about this world. I am weary. I am tired of it. I don't want to be here anymore. I just want to go home.

And this is why death cult religions like yours are so frightening. When a person believes they can escape this world for one after they die, they have no desire to live this life to the fullest, nor take care of this little dirtball for all who come next. This is the mentality which leads to suicide bombers, and this guy...

What's the harm? Let's ask Congressman John Shimkus - YouTube

Kingarthurhk
07-31-2012, 17:22
And this is why death cult religions like yours are so frightening. When a person believes they can escape this world for one after they die, they have no desire to live this life to the fullest, nor take care of this little dirtball for all who come next. This is the mentality which leads to suicide bombers, and this guy...


I am not a death cult, I am not a suicide bomber. Further, it defeats the purpose to commit suicide, as that would keep me from salvation.

You don't know me. You don't know my circumstances. I am just so tired, so very very tired. I just have to keep on keeping on despite the cards that dealt over and over and over again.

You can't order me to like it.

High-Gear
07-31-2012, 17:49
I am not a death cult, I am not a suicide bomber. Further, it defeats the purpose to commit suicide, as that would keep me from salvation.

You don't know me. You don't know my circumstances. I am just so tired, so very very tired. I just have to keep on keeping on despite the cards that dealt over and over and over again.

You can't order me to like it.

I didn't say you were a suicide bomber, and didn't order you to do anything.

I do think you are in a death cult. Your religion is centered on self hate in this life for reward in the next. It is focused on the torture and death of a man 2,000 years ago which you are vicariously complicit in, and have to beg forgiveness for.


Still doubt it. Ask yourself, are you more concerned with this world and what you experience in this life, or the world to come in the next life?

Kingarthurhk
07-31-2012, 18:17
I didn't say you were a suicide bomber, and didn't order you to do anything.

I do think you are in a death cult. Your religion is centered on self hate in this life for reward in the next. It is focused on the torture and death of a man 2,000 years ago which you are vicariously complicit in, and have to beg forgiveness for.


Still doubt it. Ask yourself, are you more concerned with this world and what you experience in this life, or the world to come in the next life?

Definately the world to come. I am weary of this one. I would rather not get into the details. But, life is one constant struggle with one nasty suprise after the other. I am tired. My "mainspring" is winding down.

I am allowed to be discouraged now and again. Lately, more again and again.

I am sure you are a young vigorous buck and can't understand what it means to have to put your full effort every day just to do what normal people do, only to run into nasty suprise after suprise.

But, what awaits me is a body that won't find new ways to betray me. Boundless energy, boundless love. Who wouldn't want that?

A death cult would imply that I am comitting suicide and inviting others to do so as well. I am not.

Some of us have a tougher row to hoe, and it can be discouraging.

The proverbial carrot on the end of the stick is all I have. Yet, you want to take that away as well?

High-Gear
07-31-2012, 18:47
The proverbial carrot on the end of the stick is all I have. Yet, you want to take that away as well?

i'm sorry you have it so rough. You don't know me either, but maybe I have a different attitude about life, because no matter how bad it is, I'm still living it!

I'm not trying to take away your carrot, but I am sad if that is all you truly have. Because I don't delude myself with an afterlife, I find every ounce of joy in each day I have! I only have a fixed number so I don't waste time on things such as self pitty, and a fixation on the negative things!

Syclone538
07-31-2012, 22:14
This is what I know about this world. I am weary. I am tired of it. I don't want to be here anymore. I just want to go home.

I'm reluctant to point this out, but if you believed in another religion, you might be a danger to yourself or others.

Kingarthurhk
08-01-2012, 03:18
I'm reluctant to point this out, but if you believed in another religion, you might be a danger to yourself or others.

I am not a danger to myself or others. I don't want to harm anyone, and I cannot harm myself. But, I am allowed to me tired of it all at this point.

Kingarthurhk
08-01-2012, 03:21
i'm sorry you have it so rough. You don't know me either, but maybe I have a different attitude about life, because no matter how bad it is, I'm still living it!

I'm not trying to take away your carrot, but I am sad if that is all you truly have. Because I don't delude myself with an afterlife, I find every ounce of joy in each day I have! I only have a fixed number so I don't waste time on things such as self pitty, and a fixation on the negative things!

I am not trying to be self-pitiful. I am simply being honest. I am really really tired of the state of affairs in this world. I just know for a fact what is to come is so much better.

NMG26
08-01-2012, 04:05
Would I want them to be homosexual? No. Would I love them the "same"? Good question. I would hope I could. So it should be the same for those that arent my offspring. I should treat them the same. Is it natural? No not to me, but neither is God's love for us.

God's love for us is natural. God is love.

Religion has called homosexuality unnatural, and that way of thinking has become our culture. Culture changes.

My son has an unnatural addiction to alcohol. I have never seen such a thing. He goes back to the bottle even though it always ends with the same dramatic failure. It does not bring a good result but he keeps doing it. Unnatural. I don't get it.

I love my son even though he has this monkey on his back. If he were gay, I would love him the same.

Be the Archetype. Be the love. If you think that God's love is unnatural then how could you attain to it? If you think that God's love is perfectly natural, then it is something that you can attain to. Be the love.

NMG26
08-01-2012, 04:20
I will answer this question with a question.

Show me 2 gay men that have conceived a child.

Show me 2 gay women's that have conceived a child.

Go ahead, ill wait...

Pointless.

Sex is not just about having children. Imagine the size of your family if it was.

Honey, lets make a baby tonight!

Snapper2
08-01-2012, 10:53
God's love for us is natural. God is love.

Religion has called homosexuality unnatural, and that way of thinking has become our culture. Culture changes.

My son has an unnatural addiction to alcohol. I have never seen such a thing. He goes back to the bottle even though it always ends with the same dramatic failure. It does not bring a good result but he keeps doing it. Unnatural. I don't get it.

I love my son even though he has this monkey on his back. If he were gay, I would love him the same.

Be the Archetype. Be the love. If you think that God's love is unnatural then how could you attain to it? If you think that God's love is perfectly natural, then it is something that you can attain to. Be the love.
For Him it is natural. Its God's nature. Not mine. Let someone tie you to a whipping post and give you one lash short of death as Jesus did and then you'll find out just how natural God's love is compared to yours or mine. And do it for those that hate you and want you dead and you'll find out how natural it is. The point I was trying to make is I would not be able to love or forgive without His help.

NMG26
08-01-2012, 13:52
For Him it is natural. Its God's nature. Not mine. Let someone tie you to a whipping post and give you one lash short of death as Jesus did and then you'll find out just how natural God's love is compared to yours or mine. And do it for those that hate you and want you dead and you'll find out how natural it is. The point I was trying to make is I would not be able to love or forgive without His help.

Christians see the world as evil. They see themselves as evil. To the Christian the world is not an "ever increasing evil world". The world is just plain evil to the Christian.

I say that the nature of God is in man. The nature of God is the nature of man. To love. The fact that we have evil in us does not mean that we don't have goodness in us.

The choice between good and evil has always been the same. It has not increased, and it will not decrease. The choice will always be there.

Syclone538
08-01-2012, 20:39
I am not a danger to myself or others. I don't want to harm anyone, and I cannot harm myself. But, I am allowed to me tired of it all at this point.

That's why I said "if you believed in another religion".

muscogee
08-02-2012, 13:52
Yeah, like I've never read anything false posted by you! I've got to ask: Since when have Animal Mother's posts become undisputed exemplars of abstruse absolute truths?

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7072/10802887.jpg

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9887/30123894.jpg

How's that! 'Mr. Natural' himself. (Want more pictures?) :supergrin:

:upeyes: Come on, Animal. The most that can be demonstrated with any degree of credibility is that the account of creation given by the Prophet Moses inside the Book of Genesis is, most likely, an allegory - One that contains important spiritual truths. By the way you don't really want to start a contest around here for who is, or isn't, most like Satan - Do you? ;)

Talk about a straw man. Homosexuality and child molestation are not the same thing. Not even close. Would you have been OK with this if he had molested little girls instead?

muscogee
08-02-2012, 14:25
This is what I know about this world. I am weary. I am tired of it. I don't want to be here anymore. I just want to go home.

I don't mean to be snarky, but it seems that your God is not taking very good care of you. I understand. I really do. As long as I trusted God my life was fruitless and depressing. When I finally accepted that there probably wasn't a God and if there was, he wasn't going to help me in any way, my life started improving. Don't wait for a God that's not going to help you. You're an intelligent thoughtful person. Trust yourself.

Don't go back to drinking. You know that's not the answer.

Kingarthurhk
08-02-2012, 18:18
I don't mean to be snarky, but it seems that your God is not taking very good care of you. I understand. I really do. As long as I trusted God my life was fruitless and depressing. When I finally accepted that there probably wasn't a God and if there was, he wasn't going to help me in any way, my life started improving. Don't wait for a God that's not going to help you. You're an intelligent thoughtful person. Trust yourself.

Don't go back to drinking. You know that's not the answer.

I don't plan on drinking. Circumstances have come along that are disheartening and stressful. It has taken the vigor our of life. It isn't God's fault. I don't blame Him. My God is still on the throne in the same place He has always been. He was on the throne with Job, He is still on the throne. I am just looking forward to what is to come, because at the moment what is here is tough.

There is an anecdote about an elderly woman who was about to die. She told her minister she wanted to be buried with her bible, and he understood that. Then she said she wanted to be buried with her fork in the other hand. This confused him, and he asked why? She said at pot luck they always said after the main meal to save their forks for desert, because something better was comming.

So, she was waiting for something better. So am I.

I am simply being honest about the valley of discouragement. I do my best to be an honest man. I would be a liar to say that the Christian experience was always easy. That it was always peaks and never valleys. Well, right now is a valley.

I have a devoted wife that loves me, understands what I am going through, and will stick by me no matter what. That is definately a wonderful main course. But, something better is yet to come. I am saving my fork.

muscogee
08-02-2012, 19:42
I don't plan on drinking. Circumstances have come along that are disheartening and stressful. It has taken the vigor our of life. It isn't God's fault. I don't blame Him. My God is still on the throne in the same place He has always been. He was on the throne with Job, He is still on the throne. I am just looking forward to what is to come, because at the moment what is here is tough.

There is an anecdote about an elderly woman who was about to die. She told her minister she wanted to be buried with her bible, and he understood that. Then she said she wanted to be buried with her fork in the other hand. This confused him, and he asked why? She said at pot luck they always said after the main meal to save their forks for desert, because something better was comming.

So, she was waiting for something better. So am I.

I am simply being honest about the valley of discouragement. I do my best to be an honest man. I would be a liar to say that the Christian experience was always easy. That it was always peaks and never valleys. Well, right now is a valley.

I have a devoted wife that loves me, understands what I am going through, and will stick by me no matter what. That is definately a wonderful main course. But, something better is yet to come. I am saving my fork.

Sorry you're having a rough time.

Kingarthurhk
08-03-2012, 04:28
Sorry you're having a rough time.

Thank you. I appreciate your concern and care.

Bren
08-03-2012, 06:15
It is not an increasingly evil world. In fact, I'd say it is much better than at several points in the recent past, in the U.S. and around the world.

TEMPOROCENTRISM is the belief that one’s own time is more important than the past or future. Historical events are judged not in their own context, but rather on the basis of contemporary standards. It is most prevalent among those who lack historical perspective.

Maybe you could join one of the confederate flag threads and argue about the evil racism ....

Kingarthurhk
08-03-2012, 17:12
Also, I want to send my sincere thanks to my Atheist friends, and the Atheists of this board. I have been going through a lot lately, and my brothers have not said a single thing one way or the other. However, the Atheist response, especially via PM has been very kind.

Thank you. I mean that.

dereklord
08-03-2012, 18:57
Is reproduction life's only purpose? Should sterile people also be considered unnatural?

Trying to not get too far into a debate here, but this really stuck out to me. The answer to this question would seem very simple. Yes. would you consider someone who is sterile to be natural? Someone with one arm or only 9 toes natural? It doesn't make that PERSON unatural, just the issue. I'm not trying to say that we should ship off all of the "defected" human beings to an island and let them all die off, however, being a realist here, being sterile would not be something that is natural. Nor would any other "defect" in a person, animal, building, or any other thing in all of creation.

Also, I remember you from a lengthy discussion years back on much the same subject, Animal Mother. How have you been? I see your views haven't changed (even slightly :supergrin: ). I have to say, reading some of your posts (regardless of the fact that I dont agree with your beliefs) makes me a bit envious of your zeal and knowledge with which you approach each discussion. Well played, sir!

Woofie
08-03-2012, 20:45
PM on the way, though I feel I'm just jumping on the bandwagon after this post.

Also, I want to send my sincere thanks to my Atheist friends, and the Atheists of this board. I have been going through a lot lately, and my brothers have not said a single thing one way or the other. However, the Atheist response, especially via PM has been very kind.

Thank you. I mean that.

There is a lot to be said about this post, and some self reflection is in order for many of us.

Animal Mother
08-03-2012, 22:32
Trying to not get too far into a debate here, but this really stuck out to me. The answer to this question would seem very simple. Yes. would you consider someone who is sterile to be natural? Someone with one arm or only 9 toes natural? It doesn't make that PERSON unatural, just the issue. I'm not trying to say that we should ship off all of the "defected" human beings to an island and let them all die off, however, being a realist here, being sterile would not be something that is natural. If a person is sterile from birth, what could it be other than natural? Are albinos or little people natural?
] Nor would any other "defect" in a person, animal, building, or any other thing in all of creation. What are they then?

Also, I remember you from a lengthy discussion years back on much the same subject, Animal Mother. How have you been? I see your views haven't changed (even slightly :supergrin: ). I have to say, reading some of your posts (regardless of the fact that I dont agree with your beliefs) makes me a bit envious of your zeal and knowledge with which you approach each discussion. Well played, sir!Thank you.

dereklord
08-03-2012, 22:45
If all of those things are natural, then I believe I have no idea what the definition of natural really is. Which is highly possible. Without consulting the dictionary, I think I see your stance...natural being "created that way" Maybe I was thinking more along the lines of "normal". I just don't want people to see that I am calling something about another human abnormal and think I am trying to say that abnormal is wrong. Just that, if being sterile were normal, why wouldn't it be, well, the norm?

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Animal Mother
08-03-2012, 22:51
If all of those things are natural, then I believe I have no idea what the definition of natural really is. Which is highly possible. Without consulting the dictionary, I think I see your stance...natural being "created that way" Maybe I was thinking more along the lines of "normal". I just don't want people to see that I am calling something about another human abnormal and think I am trying to say that abnormal is wrong. Just that, if being sterile were normal, why wouldn't it be, well, the norm? I think you're correct in that I'm not using the term natural as a synonym for normal, I'm using it in the sense of coming about only through natural means, without outside intervention. If an animal, for example, is born sterile, that is natural, whatever the ultimate cause. If someone manipulates, again as an example, an animal to make it sterile that would be unnatural. For a specific example take the work done to create sterile insects as a means of pest control.

dereklord
08-04-2012, 09:09
I think you're correct in that I'm not using the term natural as a synonym for normal, I'm using it in the sense of coming about only through natural means, without outside intervention. If an animal, for example, is born sterile, that is natural, whatever the ultimate cause. If someone manipulates, again as an example, an animal to make it sterile that would be unnatural. For a specific example take the work done to create sterile insects as a means of pest control.

But you agree that it is an abnormality, right?

Kingarthurhk
08-04-2012, 16:03
PM on the way, though I feel I'm just jumping on the bandwagon after this post.



There is a lot to be said about this post, and some self reflection is in order for many of us.

Thanks, Woolfie. I read it. I would now like to ammend and thank one of the new Christian members who is also going through some trials who took the time to be kind to me. Thank you, sir.

Animal Mother
08-04-2012, 16:17
But you agree that it is an abnormality, right?In the sense that normal is equivalent to most common, yes.