Looks like our "hobby" may get a little more important in the coming days [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Looks like our "hobby" may get a little more important in the coming days


PhantomF4E
07-30-2012, 19:02
Well fella's wanna bet on the next rush to purchase supplies .... The "O" team is at it again trash talkin' internet sales of those EVIL bullets..... These boys are as dumb as a bag-a-hammers. Do they know how much money they just made for Larry Potterfield !!!!!
You just know they are gonna scribble "components" to mix those evil bullets,powder, and primers into the bill , so Powder Valley is probably looking at a flood of orders. I would say we will all probably be on a watch list soon, but knowin' these folks they probably got us all mapped out by now ......

country85
07-30-2012, 19:54
I was trying to think of something whitty to say here, but it's way beyond a laughing matter any more.

dkf
07-30-2012, 19:55
Hopefully Barry and the rest of his buffoon ridden administration will be gone in a few months.

country85
07-30-2012, 20:01
Hopefully Barry and the rest of his buffoon ridden administration will be gone in a few months.

We can only hope!!!

squirreld
07-30-2012, 20:23
Internet ammo sales bans
Magazine bans
UN gun bans

it just keeps getting deeper.
why does everything have to be "banned."
something is bound to stick.

Zombie Steve
07-30-2012, 20:41
I'm willing to give it up for the safety of the children, because you know if they ban it, criminals wouldn't dare cross that line. :whistling:

fredj338
07-30-2012, 20:43
Hopefully Barry and the rest of his buffoon ridden administration will be gone in a few months.

No hoping at all. We all know some boob that is gonna stay home or vote libertarian & throw their vote away. So be active, get involved at least in a personal way by encouraging the not so well informed, particularly libertarian voters, this is an anyone but Obama election. Anything else will spell doom for the country & us gun owners on so many levels. Me, I am a bit tired of the spending, lying & back door dealing, all on the upswing w/ the most "transparent aministration" ever.:upeyes:

Zombie Steve
07-30-2012, 20:45
Fred for President!!!

http://pokerknave.com/files/2009/08/spock.jpg


(we'll find some handlers that will spell check for you)

country85
07-30-2012, 20:49
Fred for President!!!

http://pokerknave.com/files/2009/08/spock.jpg


(we'll find some handlers that will spell check for you)

Got my vote!!

squirreld
07-30-2012, 20:50
Right now I'd vote for pedro.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CHIfQrYmuh0/T7zl4JLOReI/AAAAAAAADI0/WiyyjfoU_5o/s1600/pedro.jpg

fredj338
07-30-2012, 20:57
Fred for President!!!

http://pokerknave.com/files/2009/08/spock.jpg


(we'll find some handlers that will spell check for you)

Nope. King, yes I want that job. President, nope, it's a popularity contest & I would piss too many people off. SPell check is for liberals. Now a typist I could use. I think Monica Lowinski is still available.

Gunnut 45/454
07-30-2012, 21:00
PhantomF4E
Like your screen name - work those pigs for four years at GAFB- WW! Been stocked up for along time let the gouging to begin!

cowboy1964
07-30-2012, 22:48
6000 or 60,000 rounds. The Colorado shooter only needed 100 or so. That's two boxes at Walmart.

PhantomF4E
07-31-2012, 06:18
PhantomF4E
Like your screen name - work those pigs for four years at GAFB- WW! Been stocked up for along time let the gouging to begin!
When we were flying training sorties we actually had a Pig of the month award !!! I liked the old pigs though. They were a pita, but looked mean !

ustate
07-31-2012, 09:04
As my wife pointed out when I mentioned the libs were trying to push this..."would they rather have someone order a bunch of ammo and be able to link it to an address that it is sent to or have the same guy drive all over town buying ammo at each gun store and they'll never know?"

All the lib politicians care about is making it look like they're doing something, I really don't think they care that it won't do anything to stop criminals.

fredj338
07-31-2012, 09:24
6000 or 60,000 rounds. The Colorado shooter only needed 100 or so. That's two boxes at Walmart.

He only needed a machette! Seriously, think how much damage a nut job could do in a crowded room swinging a heavy 18" edged blade & who's gonna jump up & rush him? A single shot 12ga w/ a pocket of buckshot would have been equally devastating & again, whos' gonna jump up & rush a guy w/ a 12ga, even single loading?
No you'll never get anti gun people to understand what is needed is actually more guns, not less. They don't understand the concept of defending themselves. They think the cops will always be there & intelligent people know that is rarely if ever reality.
Ever notice that our laws are made by people that have lower IQs than the people that voted them in? Notice that usually the law makers know little to nothing about what they are voting on? From health care to global warming to gun control, I would bet 99% of them have no fricking clue & they want to tell people smarter than them how to best live their lives? Really? If you do NOT vote you are part of the problem. If you vote liberal, then you are a bigger part of the problem.:yawn:

Zombie Steve
07-31-2012, 09:37
:fred:

Boxerglocker
07-31-2012, 12:29
Looks like the UN has shelved the gun treaty...
http://www.dickmorris.com/un-shelves-gun-treaty-for-now-dick-morris-tv-lunch-alert/?utm_source=dmreports&utm_medium=dmreports&utm_campaign=dmreports

You may decease with the panic... LOL

sellersm
07-31-2012, 13:02
But there's the new rhetoric about the proposed changes to online ammo sales...

It's always something...

dwhite53
08-01-2012, 04:46
Aren't there currently bans on marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth-amphetamine, ... ?

Those don't seem to be working real well. Why would a ban on guns work? They also have people in a number of countries (Mexico) living in a day to day state of fear and terror. Ban something and it becomes a LOT more valuable.

The only people using these drugs are criminals so it seems anyone having a gun after the ban would be a .......

All the best,
D. White

DoctaGlockta
08-01-2012, 08:17
Aren't there currently bans on marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth-amphetamine, ... ?

Those don't seem to be working real well. Why would a ban on guns work? They also have people in a number of countries (Mexico) living in a day to day state of fear and terror. Ban something and it becomes a LOT more valuable.

The only people using these drugs are criminals so it seems anyone having a gun after the ban would be a .......

All the best,
D. White

Perhaps that is what the politicians want. Control.

fredj338
08-01-2012, 08:50
Aren't there currently bans on marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth-amphetamine, ... ?

Those don't seem to be working real well. Why would a ban on guns work? They also have people in a number of countries (Mexico) living in a day to day state of fear and terror. Ban something and it becomes a LOT more valuable.

The only people using these drugs are criminals so it seems anyone having a gun after the ban would be a .......

All the best,
D. White

As noted, shooting at innoncent people is a crime, killing people is a crime, what they choose to use doesn't make it less so. Getting that thru the small brains of liberal politicians is almsot useless. What was it Churchill said; "if you are not a liberal when you are young you have no heart. If you are still a liberal when you are older, you have no brain". From what I see daily, pretty much a true statement.:dunno:

F106 Fan
08-01-2012, 09:45
Looks like the UN has shelved the gun treaty...
http://www.dickmorris.com/un-shelves-gun-treaty-for-now-dick-morris-tv-lunch-alert/?utm_source=dmreports&utm_medium=dmreports&utm_campaign=dmreports

You may decease with the panic... LOL

I guess I watch the wrong shows, I had no idea who Dick Morris is. Still, I have only watched just the video above...

As I watch it and listen to what is said, we only won a brief respite until after the election whereupon Obama can sign the treaty and unless the Senate votes to reject it, we're screwed. As long as Harry Reid is Senate Majority Leader, the treaty will never come up for a vote and, since it hasn't been formally rejected, we're stuck with it.

If we had signed the World Court treaty, Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield would be in prison in some 3d world country. Cheney had to cancel a trip to Canada because he feared arrest:
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/03/13/cheney-cancels-meeting-in-canada-with-spectre-out-of-concerns-over-attempts-to-arrest-him/

We really need to get out of the UN.

Richard

DoctaGlockta
08-01-2012, 10:17
As noted, shooting at innoncent people is a crime, killing people is a crime, what they choose to use doesn't make it less so. Getting that thru the small brains of liberal politicians is almsot useless. What was it Churchill said; "if you are not a liberal when you are young you have no heart. If you are still a liberal when you are older, you have no brain". From what I see daily, pretty much a true statement.:dunno:

About 400 people have been killed with firearms in Chicago this year alone. You don't see BHO going there for vigils do you?

That liberal gun control policy in Chi Town is really protecting folks.

PhantomF4E
08-01-2012, 11:52
About 400 people have been killed with firearms in Chicago this year alone. You don't see BHO going there for vigils do you?

That liberal gun control policy in Chi Town is really protecting folks.


An absolutely short ,concise, and excellent point . Chicago, one of the great demonstrations of the failure of gun control .

Ol' Rahm sure has boosted the national sales of Chick-fil-a samiches though .. He done that one right .....

fredj338
08-01-2012, 12:34
^^Exactly^^^ Yet, the gov of Ill is proposing a Kalif type "assault weapon" ban. These idiots should go to a CAS match & watch these guys deliver 4 rds of 12ga in 4sec from a 100yr old double shotgun or 8rds from a lever gun in 4sec. Guns scare liberals because they fear reprisals for their ridiculous policies they think we all need. Just about every failed social policy since 1900 has grown from a feable liberal's mind.

SJ 40
08-01-2012, 13:07
^^Exactly^^^ Yet, the gov of Ill is proposing a Kalif type "assault weapon" ban. These idiots should go to a CAS match & watch these guys deliver 4 rds of 12ga in 4sec from a 100yr old double shotgun or 8rds from a lever gun in 4sec. Guns scare liberals because they fear reprisals for their ridiculous policies they think we all need. Just about every failed social policy since 1900 has grown from a feable liberal's mind.Fred
Ya mean like this hear,Deuce's pistol worlds record run.

Deuce Stevens World Record Pistol Run - YouTube

Deuces world record rifle run.

Deuce Stevens, Rapid Fire Lever Rifle - YouTube

or this talented fellow ,Mr. Spurs.
Jimmy Spurs Speed Rifle - YouTube

Or the 1887 shotgun of Lassiter loading two at a time like one would in a SxS.
1887 Chiappa - YouTube

Now all we have to do is keep some gun grabbing politicians from realizing what these 100-150 year old guns can do when in capable hands. SJ 40

fredj338
08-01-2012, 13:17
I am not that fast, but I can certainly do the 8rds in 4sec of aimed fire w/ a lever gun or 4rds in 4sec w/ a dbl sg, easy or 5rds in 3sec w/ a SSA. One can change mags almost as fast as pull a trigger, so 10rds or 30rds, who cares. The singel greatest threat to a criminal w/ intent to kill is an armed, trained ccw. It was so 100yrs ago & still true today, regardless of the "civilization" we live in.
So all this blah, blah about semiautos is just the ignorant talking of what they do not know, as usual. We get the electorate we vote in. So there needs to be a greater effort to overcome the ignorant liberal vote & put in at least thinking republican's. I love libertarian's, but they can not win but on a small local level. Considering the SC appointments possible, the massive amount of exec orders that will follow PBO into another 4yrs, it should scare the crap out of any thinking person. Naturally that excludes Liberal Dems.

SJ 40
08-01-2012, 16:54
I stumbled across this.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/jul/30/obama-will-evaluate-bill-ban-online-munition-sales/ They will never stop trying !
SJ 40

dbarry
08-01-2012, 17:03
He only needed a machette! Seriously, think how much damage a nut job could do in a crowded room swinging a heavy 18" edged blade & who's gonna jump up & rush him? A single shot 12ga w/ a pocket of buckshot would have been equally devastating & again, whos' gonna jump up & rush a guy w/ a 12ga, even single loading?
No you'll never get anti gun people to understand what is needed is actually more guns, not less. They don't understand the concept of defending themselves. They think the cops will always be there & intelligent people know that is rarely if ever reality.
Ever notice that our laws are made by people that have lower IQs than the people that voted them in? Notice that usually the law makers know little to nothing about what they are voting on? From health care to global warming to gun control, I would bet 99% of them have no fricking clue & they want to tell people smarter than them how to best live their lives? Really? If you do NOT vote you are part of the problem. If you vote liberal, then you are a bigger part of the problem.:yawn:

What Fred said...

Last I checked, I think drugs are illegal... Not sure, and I don't want to appear like a know-it-all, but aren't people still using em?

Yep, pass a new law, that'll fix everything.

Liberals. Can't live with them, ...pass the beer nuts.

fredj338
08-01-2012, 18:16
What Fred said...

Last I checked, I think drugs are illegal... Not sure, and I don't want to appear like a know-it-all, but aren't people still using em?

Yep, pass a new law, that'll fix everything.

Liberals. Can't live with them, ...pass the beer nuts.

Yupp, drunk driving, rape, child porn, theft, etc, etc. It is all illegal & it's all done daily. What we need is national ccw reciprocity. Then ALL crime everywhere would drop.

JLM63
08-01-2012, 20:14
I've been buying ammo and reloading components all year. "Hoarding" is about to become cool again...

PCJim
08-01-2012, 22:47
Do you ever hear the libs or media shout out that alcohol should be banned when a drunk kills a family on vacation in a minivan? The statistics prove that alcohol kills more than firearms every year, yet they leave that topic alone.

If one really really wanted to inflict mass carnage in an enclosed area, choosing a firearm is not the best choice. Of course, banning Mason jars might would look silly...

samurairabbi
08-01-2012, 23:04
Internet ammo sales bans
Magazine bans
UN gun bans
Gun show bans should be on your list, what with

1) all the dealers using the "gun show loophole" to goof off by bypassing their NICS checks and accurate record keeping, and

2) The U-Haul full of ammo being illicitly transfered to some wacko because, as we all know, gun shows are chaotic anarchy where the criminal element congregates to buy its full-auto rifles in order to smuggle them to the Drug Cartels ... oh wait ... that isn't GUN SHOWS supplying the drug crowd! ... my error.

fredj338
08-02-2012, 13:07
Here is one for you. More children under the age of 12 are killed every year in pool drownings. This is 100% preventable by banning pools. Yet the crickets chirp. No, it's knee jerk liberalism. Being fat is the next thing libs are after, ban food, that will solve the obesity problem right?
Sure it's all ridiculous, & mostly all coming from the liberals. Just look how screwed up Kalif is. We are $20B in debt & they pass laws to allow cross dressing & ban lead bullets in condor zones! Spare me the idiocy of the elected official. Yeah, they are mostly Dems too. You want to really fix things, ban the Democrats & liberals that control them. That would solve probably 50% of all the worlds problems. Yes it really is that simple. Socialism, Communism, liberalism, progressivism, Obamaism, it's all he same stuff, just diff names.:dunno:

PhantomF4E
08-02-2012, 15:07
The only Progressive I like, is , well, do I have to say it ? ... :rofl:

Zombie Steve
08-02-2012, 15:15
I prefer to call them multistation presses...

PhantomF4E
08-02-2012, 15:25
I prefer to call them multistation presses...
Excellent !!!! they totally ruined the word... I bet the insurance company even wants a name change.

SJ 40
08-02-2012, 17:52
Excellent !!!! they totally ruined the word... I bet the insurance company even wants a name change.It is my understanding that the owner of said company chose that name on purpose,all I know is I won't purchase any product knowingly for a company with those ties.
I like ice cream and even though B&J sold to Unilever,I still won't support those two Progs . SJ 40

jlavallee
08-02-2012, 20:25
No hoping at all. We all know some boob that is gonna stay home or vote libertarian & throw their vote away. So be active, get involved at least in a personal way by encouraging the not so well informed, particularly libertarian voters, this is an anyone but Obama election. Anything else will spell doom for the country & us gun owners on so many levels. Me, I am a bit tired of the spending, lying & back door dealing, all on the upswing w/ the most "transparent aministration" ever.:upeyes:

This well informed person won't vote for a vile POS like Romney. If you were willing to stop the left vs. right attact on our Republic and individual rights, you'd vote that way. Instead, people argue lesser of two evils in hopes that the freedoms they want to stop will get by under that guise.

If a candidate with respect for individual liberty is on the ballot, that is where this vote goes. Don't blame me if you can justify standing up for less and your guy looses. If I vote for either Romney or Obama I am voting against everything this nation was founded upon and that I love about this nation. I won't do it. Stop asking.

Colorado4Wheel
08-02-2012, 21:56
Ahhhh, Freedom

fredj338
08-03-2012, 09:43
This well informed person won't vote for a vile POS like Romney. If you were willing to stop the left vs. right attact on our Republic and individual rights, you'd vote that way. Instead, people argue lesser of two evils in hopes that the freedoms they want to stop will get by under that guise.

If a candidate with respect for individual liberty is on the ballot, that is where this vote goes. Don't blame me if you can justify standing up for less and your guy looses. If I vote for either Romney or Obama I am voting against everything this nation was founded upon and that I love about this nation. I won't do it. Stop asking.

Good for you, I love the simplistic idealogue. So vote libertarian, yeah good choice. Then we get 4 more years of PBO & his corruption, good choice, fine choice. I would expect as much from a Paul supporter. Hey, I got dupped once, voted for Pero as others did & look what happened, 8yrs of CLinton. I don't make many mistakes twice. ROmney isn't even my 3rd choice, but I can see a bit further than the end of my ideolistic nose.:whistling: PBO is bad for the country, Romney, who knows, but I do know what we do have & that is unacceptable. It's almost always a choice between lesser of two evils, has been since voting started. Find me a good candidate that can win on the indpendent ticket & i'll vote for him/her. Paul aint it, the guy is so good on some things & so dangerously wrong on other things.

jlavallee
08-03-2012, 17:26
Good for you, I love the simplistic idealogue. So vote libertarian, yeah good choice. Then we get 4 more years of PBO & his corruption, good choice, fine choice. I would expect as much from a Paul supporter. Hey, I got dupped once, voted for Pero as others did & look what happened, 8yrs of CLinton. I don't make many mistakes twice. ROmney isn't even my 3rd choice, but I can see a bit further than the end of my ideolistic nose.:whistling: PBO is bad for the country, Romney, who knows, but I do know what we do have & that is unacceptable. It's almost always a choice between lesser of two evils, has been since voting started. Find me a good candidate that can win on the indpendent ticket & i'll vote for him/her. Paul aint it, the guy is so good on some things & so dangerously wrong on other things.

Wow, what is a more simplistic ideal than lesser evil? If you don't know that Romney is bad for America then I feel sorry for you. So what if Obama is slightly worse? People who accept presidents and politicians doing things they have no right to do are the problem.

Clinton vs. Bush Sr. is the same damn thing. Clinton was a horrible POS as President and Bush (Mr. New World Order) was almost as damn bad. Bush Jr. actually was worse than Clinton on a lot of things like foreign policy and the theft of civil rights.

You vote for these miserable excuses for Americans but no, I won't and I definately won't because people too afraid or secretly hoping for their unconstitutional BS to come in with a new A-hole cry "he's better than the other guy" when he's still a disgrace. If it is Romney vs. Obama then the only one who even deserves to think about being called president is Johnson and I don't give a flying * if your guy looses. This isn't about only my guy, I'd vote for another Republican if there was one that remotely qualified.

To be honest, I am less afraid of Obama if we have a Republican house and Senate than I am of Romney. They both terrify me. The only one more scary than those two was that nut bar Santorum. I might have had to vote lesser for a lifetime first DNC vote if that retard was in the finals.

fredj338
08-03-2012, 21:55
To be honest, I am less afraid of Obama if we have a Republican house and Senate than I am of Romney. They both terrify me. The only one more scary than those two was that nut bar Santorum. I might have had to vote lesser for a lifetime first DNC vote if that retard was in the finals.

Some times life is simple. So you think it doesn't matter, good, just go vote Obama & be honest about it as voting for the ridiculous independents is doing just that. I can tell, you are one of those religious bashing types, that's fine free country, but really, how simplistic. So it doesn't matter:

The bills, S. 3458 and H.R. 6241, are known as the “Stop Online Ammunition Sales Act.” The bill itself has four elements: (1) A federal licensing requirement for ammunition sellers; (2) Recordkeeping on all ammunition sales; (3) Reporting of all sales of more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition to anyone without a federal firearms license within five consecutive business days; and (4) A photo identification requirement for all non-licensees buying ammunition, “effectively banning the online or mail order purchase of ammo by regular civilians.”

Obama will sign this if it passes. Obama will place two SC justices in his next 4yrs. Tell me again who is being simplistic? Voting on emotional grounds of you don't like someone, probably because he is Mormon or rich, seriously, how simplistic is that? Much like Harry Reid, you throw out an assertion that Romney would be bad for the country w/o so much as a single example. I could write pages of the things Obama has already done & more he is certain to do if elected. So enlighten us, you seem soooooo politically astute. Give us one reason Romney is bad for the country compared to the lier & Chief & the corrupt people in his admin. Hmm, one maybe?:ueyes: Again, I am NOT a Romney supporter, not my 3rd choice, but geeze, I am smart enough to understand the outcome of 4 more years of Obama. w/ or w/o both houses. He will just exec order us into ruin as he has already started doing. Yeah, you probably missed those little tidbits though.

rg1
08-03-2012, 23:39
Don't expect any changes BUT what bothers me is that your local Gun Shop would dearly love that you would have to come in to their shop and order all supplies, components, and ammo. If a ban on internet ordering of ammunition and components were proposed I can assure you the industry and the remaining gun dealers wouldn't say a word! Much like during Janet Reno and Klinton era when they made having a Federal Firearms License impossible for the hobby licensee to keep their legal Federal Firearms License. The number of Licensee's went from 200,000 plus down to around 50,000. Not a peep from the industry complaining or backing the small dealers. You always need to watch from inside the industry as well as the politicians. Division and weakness comes from within. Just a personal gripe and may not be the thoughts of all dealers.

jlavallee
08-04-2012, 00:23
Much like Harry Reid, you throw out an assertion that Romney would be bad for the country w/o so much as a single example. I could write pages of the things Obama has already done & more he is certain to do if elected.

Romney has said he could go to war without Congress. He can't, the president doesn't have that power. He has said he wants to expand our military and why? Romney has a pretty horrible track record as a Governor especially on gun rights.

I don't care what religion a person is and for Romney, the religion thing is a zero issue. For an idiot like Santorum who can't mind his own damn business, it would be a critical issue.

I want a president that doesn't weild power he doesn't have. If it isn't in the Constitution, he shouldn't be doing it period.

You can waste your vote on him if you want, because of people who do that, the choice remains steaming pile A vs. steaming pile B. Obama is easily inside the worst 10 Presidents in history and we've had a lot, but I'm not going to vote to put a man in the office who has no business being there and doesn't even believe in the oath he takes, enough of you do that already.

fredj338
08-04-2012, 01:12
Romney has said he could go to war without Congress. He can't, the president doesn't have that power. He has said he wants to expand our military and why? Romney has a pretty horrible track record as a Governor especially on gun rights.

I don't care what religion a person is and for Romney, the religion thing is a zero issue. For an idiot like Santorum who can't mind his own damn business, it would be a critical issue.

I want a president that doesn't weild power he doesn't have. If it isn't in the Constitution, he shouldn't be doing it period.

You can waste your vote on him if you want, because of people who do that, the choice remains steaming pile A vs. steaming pile B. Obama is easily inside the worst 10 Presidents in history and we've had a lot, but I'm not going to vote to put a man in the office who has no business being there and doesn't even believe in the oath he takes, enough of you do that already.

Spare me the Ron Paul platitudes. Presidents have been going to war w/o COngress for decades. Paul thinks it's fine for iran to have a nuke, right there is where he lost me. He woudl have been one that stood by when Hitler took power. It is the problem w/ middle of the roaders; they tend to get run over by cars from both directions. Feel comfy in your decision, it's all you really have.:dunno: BTW, a wasted vote i sone that has no meaning. That would be just about any libertarian vote. It's feckless, feel good, blah, blah, blah. Been there done that, I am smarter for it today. Perot was my mistake, I rarely make the same one twice.
PBO is really bad for the country, really bad. He will do things in his second term w/ or w/o COngress. He will push, as he already has, the exec order to the limit & force COngress to take him to court to challenge. He will have no constraints of re election. I think he loses huge in the end, but you may take comfort in voting your heart along w/ the other 3-4%.:yawn: You are right about one thing, Obama will go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever, but in the top 5 not 10, maybe even top 3.

jlavallee
08-04-2012, 05:57
Spare me the Ron Paul platitudes. Presidents have been going to war w/o COngress for decades. Paul thinks it's fine for iran to have a nuke, right there is where he lost me. He woudl have been one that stood by when Hitler took power.

Wah, wah, wah. That is some brilliant use of logic there. It is OK to ignore the Constitution because they've been doing it for years?

YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT HE"D STAND BY, it is NOT his job to send them in unless there is an imminent risk. He leads the military after Congress decides to go to war and what the goal is.

Say it with me... This is America, we don't have a king.

steve4102
08-04-2012, 06:07
Good points Fred. IMO most of the vocal RP supporters are nothing more than Left Wing Socialists in disguise. They spend most of their time degrading and complaining about Republicans and Romney instead of focusing on the real problem, Obama. Their goal is simple, Divide and Conquer". Split the county into as many pieces as they can to assure an Obama victory.

As you said, a vote for RP is nothing more than a vote for Obama.

jlavallee
08-04-2012, 06:12
IMO most of the vocal RP supporters are nothing more than Left Wing Socialists in disguise.

Yeah, you're the ones who are fine with government having power to run all aspects of your life and we're speaking out on holding to the limited government rules of the Constitution but we're the socialists? Stop watching Fox, it is rotting your brain.

steve4102
08-04-2012, 06:35
Yeah, you're the ones who are fine with government having power to run all aspects of your life and we're speaking out on holding to the limited government rules of the Constitution but we're the socialists? Stop watching Fox, it is rotting your brain.

See what I mean.

Come on jl, be truthful, your avatar is only a cover for the hidden truth. Underneath that avatar is a sign of the real you and what you stand for. Looks like this.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/DDB-12-01.jpg

F106 Fan
08-04-2012, 07:25
Obama will go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever, but in the top 5 not 10, maybe even top 3.

It's hard to believe that there has been a President worse than Jimmy Carter but Obama has succeeded.

Nevertheless, it makes no difference who I vote for, California's electoral votes will go for Obama. We have far too many whackadoodles out here. There's a reason they call it the "left coast".

Richard

jlavallee
08-04-2012, 09:26
See what I mean.

Come on jl, be truthful, your avatar is only a cover for the hidden truth. Underneath that avatar is a sign of the real you and what you stand for. Looks like this.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/steve4102/DDB-12-01.jpg

You sir are an idiot. It is impossible to determine that based on my standing unless you're so simple that you can only see left vs. right. Wake up and realize that it doesn't matter what one of these two win, America looses with either mittens or BHO. You're arguing that we just need to mitigate the loosing.

I am arguing we need to FIX THE ROOT CAUSE. Until you wake up and stop accepting a-holes that don't follow our Constitution, you're empowering them.

steve4102
08-04-2012, 11:59
You sir are an idiot. It is impossible to determine that based on my standing unless you're so simple that you can only see left vs. right. Wake up and realize that it doesn't matter what one of these two win, America looses with either mittens or BHO. You're arguing that we just need to mitigate the loosing.

I am arguing we need to FIX THE ROOT CAUSE. Until you wake up and stop accepting a-holes that don't follow our Constitution, you're empowering them.

I rest my case!

F106 Fan
08-04-2012, 17:11
Hey, Fred, seen this yet?
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/04/4692609/calif-bill-seeks-to-tighten-assault.html

Basically California wants to have the button guns welded such that the magazine is not removable - at all.

I guess the plan is to reload the magazine by opening the rifle and pushing cartridges in from the top. It works on a real AR-15 but I don't know how well it will work on any of the other 'button guns'.

Richard

fredj338
08-04-2012, 18:37
It's hard to believe that there has been a President worse than Jimmy Carter but Obama has succeeded.

Nevertheless, it makes no difference who I vote for, California's electoral votes will go for Obama. We have far too many whackadoodles out here. There's a reason they call it the "left coast".

Richard

I know, but it is the principle of the election & some day, maybe, the state gets smarter than it is. I doubt it, I have never met a truely intelligent liberal or independent for that matter.
am arguing we need to FIX THE ROOT CAUSE. Until you wake up and stop accepting a-holes that don't follow our Constitution, you're empowering them.
The root caus is that people fail to understand reality vs idealism. You can't fix the system by allowing those like Obama to continue to corrupt it. The onyl thing you don;t like about Romney is he makes Paul look ridiculous, in fact, just abotu all the candidates made Paul look ridiculous. I will only give him his tax policy, the rest, pure fruit loops my friend. Be at piece w/ your vote though, just don't complain when Obama comes after your money & your guns.
WHen you divorce yourself from reality, you get what you get. Paul isn't going to win, niether is anyone else not named Romney or Obama. That is reality my friend, all ideology aside. It's definitely a sink or swim moment, whether you want to believe it or not. BTW, even Paul himself knows this, stated in in public manys times, he is just an attention whore & everyone, including Paul knows this.
One question. Paul said he would NOT have gone after BinLaden based on his interpretation of the constitution. SO you are telling me you are fine with that? That is pure nut job BS right there. Again telling me Paul has zero qualifications to be a leader of anything.

dkf
08-04-2012, 18:49
Hey, Fred, seen this yet?
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/04/4692609/calif-bill-seeks-to-tighten-assault.html

Basically California wants to have the button guns welded such that the magazine is not removable - at all.

I guess the plan is to reload the magazine by opening the rifle and pushing cartridges in from the top. It works on a real AR-15 but I don't know how well it will work on any of the other 'button guns'.

Richard

Guys take demilled "machine guns" and get them functional all the time. Like welding the mag release is going to do a dam thing. More stupid bureaucrats making laws about things they don't know squat about.

I didn't realize you could not have detachable mags on rifles and shotguns in commiefornia. So I guess my Rem 700 with a detachable magazine is a "machine gun" to a commiefornia bureaucrat.:rofl:

I like RP and agree with several things he says and unlike basically no other politician he is consistant. I'm not under any allusion that RP will actually win the election or could get done even half of what he says. I also know if would come between Obama vs Paul in November Obama would probably win. I just highly dislike Romney. Romney is a spineless two faced hypocrite, he is basically Obama with and (R) next to his name.(but he is still better than Obama I think)

fredj338
08-04-2012, 18:55
Hey, Fred, seen this yet?
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/04/4692609/calif-bill-seeks-to-tighten-assault.html

Basically California wants to have the button guns welded such that the magazine is not removable - at all.

I guess the plan is to reload the magazine by opening the rifle and pushing cartridges in from the top. It works on a real AR-15 but I don't know how well it will work on any of the other 'button guns'.

Richard

Yeah, more liberal BS scare about deadly assualt weapons. I could have done more damage w/ a 200yr old 12ga duoble & a pocket of #00 buck & in less time. Write the gov office, but I doubt it helps. They will pass what they want here, The entire state is controled by liberal union hacks. I pray for state bankrupcy every day.:steamed:

F106 Fan
08-04-2012, 19:08
I didn't realize you could not have detachable mags on rifles and shotguns in commiefornia. So I guess my Rem 700 with a detachable magazine is a "machine gun" to a commiefornia bureaucrat.:rofl:


I haven't kept up with all the rules but, oddly, I believe the Mini-14 is legal in all regards including the detachable magazine. I could be wrong about this. It doesn't have a collapsible stock or a pistol grip. The M1A is no problem as long as it doesn't have a flash suppressor. I had to swap the flash suppressor for a muzzle break. SA makes a California kit.

Magazines, depending on the date they were aquired, are limited to 10 rounds.

My Registered Assault Weapon, which is an AR-15 SP1, is legal with the 30 round magazines I bought back in '82 or so. As long as it was registered back in the early '90s (I forget the cutoff and amnesty dates) and the magazines were bought before the cutoff date (and I don't have to prove it by receipts) everything is good.

The problem with this new proposed law is that it will allow LEOs at various levels to wander up and down the range checking buttons.

I was rousted once long ago, well before AR-15s had to be registered, by a couple of guys who wanted to make certain I didn't have a full-auto sear. That's one of the reasons I don't take my AR-15 out to play very often.

Now I can be triply rousted: full auto sear, magazine is detachable and magazine capacity greater than 10 rounds. It ought to be a lot of laughs! :steamed:

I think I'll look into the Mini-14.

Richard

labdwakin
08-04-2012, 19:23
You won't like the Mini-14 for accuracy. They kinda suck in that regard on the whole.

F106 Fan
08-04-2012, 21:34
You won't like the Mini-14 for accuracy. They kinda suck in that regard on the whole.

I'm not getting much better than 2 MOA from my SP1 but it is box stock with the original chrome lined barrel and a truly crappy trigger.

Maybe something can be done to fix up a Mini-14. I haven't even started to research it.

I wonder if the Mini-30 is any better?

Richard

steve4102
08-05-2012, 06:39
Maybe something can be done to fix up a Mini-14. I haven't even started to research it.

I wonder if the Mini-30 is any better?


The Mini-14/30/6.8 is generally a 4-6 MOA rifle. There are a few things that can be done to increase the accuracy of the Mini, but not much without having a custom barrel installed by ASI. You can find some of it here.
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f95/
and here.
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/

There are a lot of Mini owners out there that feel their Mini can shoot 2 MOA or better even with cheap Military ammo. This is wishful thinking at best. I got tired of all the internet accuracy claims and issued a challenge on one of the Forums above. It was simple, put 20 rounds into a 2 inch Bull at 100 yards. Not one of these MOA Mini owners could do it, not one, cept me.
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/ruger-mini-14-mini-30/81436-giveaway-3-a.html

F106 Fan
08-05-2012, 08:19
Interesting contest. It looks like a couple of folks might be able to make it.

How well does the Mini-14 Target model shoot? I don't think we can have the Thumb Hole stock with a detachable magazine but the over-molded version is adequate for my needs. IF it will shoot...

I really have no interest in shooting anything that won't do 1 MOA. I don't mind missing but I want it to be my fault.

Richard

RustyFN
08-05-2012, 09:21
Yupp, drunk driving, rape, child porn, theft, etc, etc. It is all illegal & it's all done daily. What we need is national ccw reciprocity. Then ALL crime everywhere would drop.

Now you're talking. I'm sure if the theater would have allowed ccw and there were a few in there the outcome of the Colorado shooting would have been different.

jlavallee
08-05-2012, 10:04
The root caus is that people fail to understand reality vs idealism. You can't fix the system by allowing those like Obama to continue to corrupt it. The onyl thing you don;t like about Romney is he makes Paul look ridiculous, in fact, just abotu all the candidates made Paul look ridiculous. I will only give him his tax policy, the rest, pure fruit loops my friend. Be at piece w/ your vote though, just don't complain when Obama comes after your money & your guns.

The defination of insantiy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. But in your Paul rant you showed yourself. No shocker, you don't want to fix the system because you like and approve of the rights and liberties that Republicans typically take or ignore when in power.

I on the other hand believe in our Constitution.

You neo con Republicans will have to win without us. We're not going to keep going along in hopes you'll see the light. The fact that you see a lot of difference between Romney and Obama clearly tells me you're focused on the wrong things. Where they're different doesn't matter because neither should have the power to go outside of their oath.

Arguments with a typical state person really are like playing chess with a pidgeon. No matter how I move my pieces, the pidegon is going to **** on the board, knock over the pieces and strut around like it is victorious.:rofl:

fredj338
08-05-2012, 11:20
The defination of insantiy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. But in your Paul rant you showed yourself. No shocker, you don't want to fix the system because you like and approve of the rights and liberties that Republicans typically take or ignore when in power.

I on the other hand believe in our Constitution.

You neo con Republicans will have to win without us. We're not going to keep going along in hopes you'll see the light. The fact that you see a lot of difference between Romney and Obama clearly tells me you're focused on the wrong things. Where they're different doesn't matter because neither should have the power to go outside of their oath.

Arguments with a typical state person really are like playing chess with a pidgeon. No matter how I move my pieces, the pidegon is going to **** on the board, knock over the pieces and strut around like it is victorious.:rofl:

Yeah, it always comes down to name calling when you run out of facts. Libertarians are fence sitters. You hide behind the constitution & continue your feckless voting on the 5% fringe. You might as well take up the global warming cause as well, equally useless. I notice you failed to comment on Paul's own statement that he wasn't really serious about running for president or about the BinLaden thing, but hey, I understand, you can't really defedn either point. Oops, you got dupped by your guy.
Hopefully other libertarians will not follow your weak lead & vote like liberals with their precious hearts. It will only lead to a 2nd Obama tour & that is just unacceptable at any level. NeoCon, geeze man, your reading comprehension is as bad as your political acumen. I don't like Romney, but I really don't like Obama, it's an easy decision, nothing NeoCon about it.:yawn:

jlavallee
08-05-2012, 11:25
You hide behind the constitution

That is our governing document and the core values on which this nation was founded. Hide behind it? Wow.

You no more believe in this Republic than Obama. Nor does Romney and that is the problem.

fredj338
08-05-2012, 11:35
That is our governing document and the core values on which this nation was founded. Hide behind it? Wow.

You no more believe in this Republic than Obama. Nor does Romney and that is the problem.

No, there is believing in the constitution & hiding behind it. YOu would say a violent convicted felon has the right to own a gun I would say he does not. You would say a pedophile has the right to pursuit of happiness I would say he does not. One is hiding behind the constitution one is understanding that so called "rights" are socially restricted. I certainly believe in the constitution, but I am not so emotioanlly involved as to not unsderstand it's implementation. There is no such thing as a strict interpretation of a 235 yr old document. That is just hiding your head in the sand.

jlavallee
08-05-2012, 12:56
No, there is believing in the constitution & hiding behind it. YOu would say a violent convicted felon has the right to own a gun I would say he does not. You would say a pedophile has the right to pursuit of happiness I would say he does not. One is hiding behind the constitution one is understanding that so called "rights" are socially restricted. I certainly believe in the constitution, but I am not so emotioanlly involved as to not unsderstand it's implementation. There is no such thing as a strict interpretation of a 235 yr old document. That is just hiding your head in the sand.

How the hell do you grasp that? We endow the government with some of our rights, the government does not have rights we don't have.

A pedifile has also acted on his desires and infringed on someone else so we punish him. You have the right to pursue happiness as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone else.

A violent felon has been convicted by a jury of his peers and found to be guilty then by virtue of having a right of self defense and the felon's past history of violation of the rights of others, he is for that reason, prevented from owning a firearm.

Now someone who decided to smoke pot has every right to make the decision to put what they want in their own body and a gay person (big difference) has every right to engage in consentual sex.

Your illusion that society has some right the individual does not is the very core of socialism. It certianly goes against the idea of a Republic where the individual is protected from the tyranny of the majority.

You ought to open a book sometime. They hide information in those things.

unclebob
08-05-2012, 15:49
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

fredj338
08-05-2012, 19:42
How the hell do you grasp that? We endow the government with some of our rights, the government does not have rights we don't have.

A pedifile has also acted on his desires and infringed on someone else so we punish him. You have the right to pursue happiness as long as it doesn't infringe on anyone else.

A violent felon has been convicted by a jury of his peers and found to be guilty then by virtue of having a right of self defense and the felon's past history of violation of the rights of others, he is for that reason, prevented from owning a firearm.

Now someone who decided to smoke pot has every right to make the decision to put what they want in their own body and a gay person (big difference) has every right to engage in consentual sex.

Your illusion that society has some right the individual does not is the very core of socialism. It certianly goes against the idea of a Republic where the individual is protected from the tyranny of the majority.

You ought to open a book sometime. They hide information in those things.

Really, you crack me up. Show me in ths constitution where it says anything about the 2A & felony convictions? Yeah, that's right, that was established outside the constitution. Same for the pedophile. Nothing in the constitution about sex w/ minors being legal ro illegal.
All laws are made by man. THe court decides what is constitutional & what is not. Courts are made up of men & women, not gods or even good students of the constitution. It's why libertarian BS about the constitution is just that, BS. We have a system, like it or not, the system is run by men & women making laws & in the courts, not the constitution. Those men & women have politcal agendas & almost all lean left or right, few straddle the vague middle.
One can interpret a loss of liberty at any level, the felon for not being able to own a gun or the pedophile for not being able to have sex w/ even a concenting minor. BTW, even the determination of adult age is setablished by courts & laws, not by the constitution.
So bottom line, preach that pure BS about the constitution & continue to toss your vote in the trash, but don;t preach to me about something you have almost no mature understanding of.:upeyes:

RYT 2BER
08-05-2012, 20:56
Good points Fred. IMO most of the vocal RP supporters are nothing more than Left Wing Socialists in disguise. They spend most of their time degrading and complaining about Republicans and Romney instead of focusing on the real problem, Obama. Their goal is simple, Divide and Conquer". Split the county into as many pieces as they can to assure an Obama victory.

As you said, a vote for RP is nothing more than a vote for Obama.

I agree

For future reference I can save everyone some time....

A. Don't waste time debating with liberals.
B. don't waste time debating with Ron Paul supporters...

They're both delusional and you're just wasting good time...

Taterhead
08-05-2012, 22:54
Really, you crack me up. Show me in ths constitution where it says anything about the 2A & felony convictions? Yeah, that's right, that was established outside the constitution. Same for the pedophile. Nothing in the constitution about sex w/ minors being legal ro illegal.
All laws are made by man. THe court decides what is constitutional & what is not. Courts are made up of men & women, not gods or even good students of the constitution. It's why libertarian BS about the constitution is just that, BS. We have a system, like it or not, the system is run by men & women making laws & in the courts, not the constitution. Those men & women have politcal agendas & almost all lean left or right, few straddle the vague middle.
One can interpret a loss of liberty at any level, the felon for not being able to own a gun or the pedophile for not being able to have sex w/ even a concenting minor. BTW, even the determination of adult age is setablished by courts & laws, not by the constitution.
So bottom line, preach that pure BS about the constitution & continue to toss your vote in the trash, but don;t preach to me about something you have almost no mature understanding of.:upeyes:

Precisely.

Ron Paul supporters remind me a lot of Ralph Nader supporters. Both have things in common: they cannot see the difference between socialists like Barack Obama and free market proponents like Mitt Romney. So supporters of both cast "principled," rather than realistic, votes. The truth is that Mickey Mouse has probably garnered more write-in presidential votes than Ron Paul will ever get.

Paul supporters insist that if we can't have Paul, then Obama is no worse than Romney. BS!

Speaking of the Constitution: Ron Paul makes a mockery of it. I love that document and what it stands for. Paul makes me cringe since he fashions himself to be the supreme arbiter of Consitutional philosophy. His rigid absolutist personal interpretation of the Constitution reminds me of ways that odd cultish religions interpret the Bible. He says the word "Constitution" so often that he has cheapened the significance of it. It is too bad, because Ron Paul's ideas about the proper role of government is right in many respects.

There is a choice in November. A real choice: Keep Obama in office or get rid of him. There are two camps that will align to keep Obama in office: 1) Obama supporters, and 2) Paul supporters who do not vote for Romney. Pretty simple. You are with Obama or you are against him. Mitt Romney is the only chance we have to rid ourselves of the worst president in my lifetime.

jlavallee
08-05-2012, 22:55
Really, you crack me up. Show me in ths constitution where it says anything about the 2A & felony convictions? Yeah, that's right, that was established outside the constitution.

Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

So if you're going to be deprived of liberties you're going to be tried for your crime. As I said, read.

If you don't like the Constitution then there is a process in place to amend it, you just can't pretend it is out of date, make crap up or ignore it.

Taterhead
08-05-2012, 23:19
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

So if you're going to be deprived of liberties you're going to be tried for your crime. As I said, read.

If you don't like the Constitution then there is a process in place to amend it, you just can't pretend it is out of date, make crap up or ignore it.

That is the problem with Paul supporters. If we do not see things exactly as he does, we are made out to be the "living document" types when we are not. The Constitution is fine as is -- particularly the caption you quoted above.

What Fred is saying is that "due process of law" is not defined in the Constitution. It must be defined and codified into law. Even the notion of what constitutes a crime must be codified as a matter of law. Sometimes we do not like the laws that our duly elected members of government create, but does not necessarily make them unconsitutional.

Paul has one argument for everything he does not like: "It is not in the Constitution." Of course it isn't. The Constitution is specifically silent on most matters. It gave us a republican form of government to fill in the blanks, so to speak. Arguing ad naseum about "following the Constitution" does not educate an undecided voter about why socialism is bad economic policy.

I hate the expansion of the federal government as much as the next Paul supporters. Ron Paul is not the remedy. Mitt Romney, frankly, has done a better job of explaining how economic liberty and political liberty are connected. Paul would just tell you that "the Consitution tells you so."

He has so cheapened that wonderful document.

freakshow10mm
08-06-2012, 00:06
The defination of insantiy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
No, insanity is a legal term that means someone that doesn't know right from wrong, morally.

I on the other hand believe in our Constitution.
As does everyone on this forum.

You neo con Republicans will have to win without us. We're not going to keep going along in hopes you'll see the light. The fact that you see a lot of difference between Romney and Obama clearly tells me you're focused on the wrong things. Where they're different doesn't matter because neither should have the power to go outside of their oath.
Libertarians hope that the others will see the light. They won't. That's the reality. The government is not a speedboat, it's a large ship that takes a long time to change course. We need to do to them what they've done to us: a slow and steady change of couse. True Republicans with Libertarian influence in the answer to the moderation goals of the country. Liberalism in America only has a place to convince the country not to be prudes and have some tolerance of differences in "lifestyle".

fredj338
08-06-2012, 09:01
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

So if you're going to be deprived of liberties you're going to be tried for your crime. As I said, read.

If you don't like the Constitution then there is a process in place to amend it, you just can't pretend it is out of date, make crap up or ignore it.

But who sets the rules, who writes the laws? THe laws are what the COngress & courts say. You seem to miss tha little point. You know at one time that slavery was upheld as constitutional, hello, anyone home??
I love the constitution, it's just not the holy grail some of you think. It's changed thru interperetation all the time, bastardized all the time. The recent SC ruling on Obama care is just one example. The 2a is shredded with examples; registration, limits on this or that, so again, don't preach to me your imature interpretatins of the constitution.
It's my biggest gripe about TeapParty & libertarians, they think the system is their interpretation & their belief that there is no diff between Dems & Rep is just showing they are simplisticly ignorant. IF you see no diff between socialist/marxist Obama & capitalist Romney, you have long left the planet right behind Paul.:whistling:
Once again, you never answered my question. Even Paul knows he has no chance of winning. His own stated purpose is to swing the Rebulicans further right. While not all bad, he just isn't the right spokesman as he can't back up all his consitutional rhetoric. Not going after BinLaden, please, spare me.

DoctaGlockta
08-06-2012, 09:04
Well back at the Ranch here I think after this latest shooting spree at a Sikh temple I'm going to order both some components and ammo this week.

The writing is on the wall Gentlemen.

Prepare accordingly.

fredj338
08-06-2012, 09:08
Well back at the Ranch here I think after this latest shooting spree at a Sikh temple I'm going to order both some components and ammo this week.

The writing is on the wall Gentlemen.

Prepare accordingly.

Yep, I've got more stuff coimng in. I even ordered a set of 224 swaging dies to make my own 223 bullets. I can very easily see the commerce dept setting a rule up to ban interstate "trafficking of dangerous mat'ls", & we are prevented from ordering ammo or components across state lines & all done under the guise of the constitution.
Yep, the writing is on the wall & hanidng Obama another 4yrs will seal the deal. He will not need congress or senate to do bad things w/ existing agencies thru exec order. He has already done several things that all fy in the face of the constitution & the only recourse is to take him to court & anymore, that is an iffy proposition that will also only get owrse under a Dem president. Yeah, no diff between Rep & Dems, sure.:whistling:

F106 Fan
08-06-2012, 11:12
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

So if you're going to be deprived of liberties you're going to be tried for your crime. As I said, read.

Since Bush, et al, passed the Patriot Act, a person can be held indefinitely on a Material Witness Warrant with no due process whatsoever. Basically, they just disappear. No lawyer, no trial, no due process. Just never heard from again...

Any phone can be tapped with a wink and a nod with or without a warrant signed by a secret judge. Emails are routinely intercepted by the NSA even if they are not being sent to a foreign country.

I remember as a kid that Postal envelopes and packages were marked "May Be Opened For Inspection". This was left over from WWII where mail was routinely opened.

This country has lost its way. Democracies don't typically last more than 250 years so ours is just about over. There is almost nothing left of the Bill Of Rights and none of the rest of the Constitution is really working in practice.

I'm fairly certain that the Commerce Clause was never intended to allow the creation of a dictatorship. Yet, here we are...

I wonder what our country will look like in 50 years.

Richard

PocketProtector
08-06-2012, 11:15
Internet ammo sales bans
Magazine bans
UN gun bans

it just keeps getting deeper.
why does everything have to be "banned."
something is bound to stick.

Communists know only 2 actions,
1. Ban it
2. Tax it

Those 2 will cure every ill. :steamed:

shotgunred
08-07-2012, 10:18
Maybe something can be done to fix up a Mini-14. I haven't even started to research it.

I wonder if the Mini-30 is any better?

Richard

Have you looked at an SKS? They are much more accurate than they are given credit for. They would meet most of the cali laws. Stripier clips make reloading quick and almost painless. A little bit of trigger work and most of them are ready to go. Look for a Chinese one if possible. My Chinese SKS is a lot nicer than my Yugo.

F106 Fan
08-07-2012, 10:43
Have you looked at an SKS? They are much more accurate than they are given credit for. They would meet most of the cali laws. Stripier clips make reloading quick and almost painless. A little bit of trigger work and most of them are ready to go. Look for a Chinese one if possible. My Chinese SKS is a lot nicer than my Yugo.


I'm pretty sure we can't buy SKSs in California. Can't buy AR-15s or AK-47s either.

We can only have assault rifle wannabes if the magazine isn't detachable or if a long list of features are omitted.

There are two categories of banned assault rifles in California: First, those that are banned by name like the Colt AR-15 SP1 and, second, those that are banned by features.

When the state banned guns by name, the manufacturers just changed the name. So the state started banning on features. The "Evil Features" are listed here:
http://www.riflegear.com/t-evilfeatures.aspx

At one time, a bayonet lug was an evil feature and I might have had a problem with my M1A. As it turns out today, all I have to do is replace the flash suppressor with a muzzle brake. No big deal. The M1A isn't banned by name, it would be banned by features.

My AR-15 is banned by name. However, it is registered as an assault rifle and I can keep it as long as I live. Upon my death, it must be a) sold out of state b) turned in to the police department or c) destroyed. It can not be inherited.

The way the assault rifle wannabes have been getting around this is that the first characteristic of a banned rifle is a detachable magazine. As long as a 'tool' is required to remove the magazine, regardless of other features, the rifle is not an assault rifle.

Thinking about the standard AR-15 magazine release, the non-detachable guns actually release the magazine when the inner screw is depressed. The outer button does nothing. So, use a cartridge tip and all is good.

UNTIL an enterprising company invents a device that has a magnetic pin and an outer button-like sleeve that fits over the non-functioning button on the rifle. Now the magazine release functions exactly like the real assault rifles.

So, what does this enterprising marketer do? He sells them in California.

http://ar-magmagnet.com/

To further irritate the legislature, the company is located in San Diego!

To be fair, the fine print mentions the restrictions.

Anyway, that's what the current storm is all about!

Richard

fredj338
08-07-2012, 13:02
It's all designed to screw with gun owners, period. How does a bullet button or not affect the actual firing mechanism? Something like the M1 is legal & you can stuff 8rd enblock clips in pretty damn fast. All BS to keep law abiding people from owning guns. Make it diff enough, expensive enough (internet ammo bans, reg fees, etc) then people will not own guns. There is always a way around the 2A, ammo resatrictions & taxes are not protected in the 2A.

samurairabbi
08-07-2012, 13:29
It's all designed to screw with gun owners, period. How does a bullet button or not affect the actual firing mechanism?
The "bias" against assault-type firearms is not based on the actual firing mechanism; rather, it is based on the APPEARANCE of the firearm. Under current "interpretation" of the California regs, a magazine that requires a TOOL to be detached from the rifle is NOT a "detachable" magazine; that wrinkle in the regs will therefore be targeted for change. Changing the regs will take time, though.

That kind of wrinkle in interpretation was also present in the sunsetted federal law.
!) An adjustable stock that required a tool to be adjusted was not classified as an "adjustable" stock.
2) A flash-hider that also qualified as a compensator could be mounted on a ban-period rifle; the permitted compensation feature overrode the forbidden flashhider function.

F106 Fan
08-07-2012, 13:52
Under current "interpretation" of the California regs, a magazine that requires a TOOL to be detached from the rifle is NOT a "detachable" magazine; that wrinkle in the regs will therefore be targeted for change. Changing the regs will take time, though.


I predict that the new regulations will be passed before the end of this legislative session - four weeks from now. Since passage won't require debate (the Democrats control both houses), I wouldn't be surprised to see it passed this week!

The required implementation date is already set to July 1, 2013. If the button mecanism isn't welded up (or similarly made inactive) by that date, the weapon will become illegal.

There are tens of thousands of these 'button guns' in California.

The way to avoid the whole issue is to buy a featureless gun like the Mini-14. It doesn't have any of the 'evil features' like a collapsible stock, a thumbhole stock, a pistol grip, a forend grip or any of the other 'evil features'. Detachable magazines would be allowed as long as the rifle had a regular stock.

Three gun matches are going to be a LOT slower if ammo has to be reloaded through the top of the receiver.

Richard

unclebob
08-07-2012, 14:34
Unless I was a bleeding heart Liberal. There is no way in hell I would live in California, New York, or any other state that the State government that has their head stuck so far you know what. That they need a tractor, two chains and a big tree to pull it out.

F106 Fan
08-07-2012, 14:54
Unless I was a bleeding heart Liberal. There is no way in hell I would live in California, New York, or any other state that the State government that has their head stuck so far you know what. That they need a tractor, two chains and a big tree to pull it out.

I agree but...

I'm totally retired, it doesn't matter where I live. But my wife has a job here and is working toward her second retirement. Her job provides my medical insurance and it is definitely needed now that her previous employer has dumped the retiree medical insurance in bankruptcy.

We have family here and they have jobs. Those jobs come with benefits. Going shooting with your grandson is way better than shooting by yourself.

I used to spend a lot of time sailing on SF Bay. Not so much in the last 4 or 5 years but still, Monterey is always an attraction.

The weather is nice. Seldom over 100, seldom less than freezing, around 14" of rain per year. No snow locally but it is available 100 miles away. We have over 800 miles of waterway accessible just 5 minutes away (California Delta).

I would feel a lot more comfortable in Arizona. It is more like my kind of state (I want to live next to Gunsite). But I'm not moving...

Richard

unclebob
08-07-2012, 16:21
That maybe all well and good for you. But you donít realize in how much I hate Liberals. I have been to California many of times but there is no way I would even dream of living there. Just plain and simple no way. Itís bad enough I have to put up this so called Socialist and other things, President we have now. That I donít even watch the news anymore. Have I said in how much I hate Liberals?

F106 Fan
08-07-2012, 17:20
That maybe all well and good for you. But you donít realize in how much I hate Liberals. I have been to California many of times but there is no way I would even dream of living there. Just plain and simple no way. Itís bad enough I have to put up this so called Socialist and other things, President we have now. That I donít even watch the news anymore. Have I said in how much I hate Liberals?

I understand...

I live in the Central Valley (south of Sacramento) and the valley is staunchly Republican. Unfortunately, the liberals living along the coast greatly outnumber us.

Richard

WeeWilly
08-07-2012, 19:24
I live in San Francisco. It is very expensive to live here, but the climate and geography are nice.

It seems to me that life is too short to be hating much of anything, notwithstanding, of course, lima beans. Steamed, sauteed or creamed, I hate them all, always have; likely always will.

On the subject of being surrounded by communists that hate guns, I say with authority it is much better than being surrounded by ones that don't hate guns.

I don't want to be Debbie Downer here, but anyone that thinks Mitt can defeat Big Brother this November, is watching too much Fox News. Rich white guys are enemy number one in this country. Class warfare works great when everyday people are brought up to believe everything wrong in their life is someone else's fault.

I used to think when things got bad enough people would come to their senses. I now realize the direction this country is headed is being set in the schools and universities on a daily basis. As things go downhill people will be crying for more government, not less.

I am WeeWilly and I approve this message. :)

StaTiK
08-07-2012, 19:51
The way to avoid the whole issue is to buy a featureless gun like the Mini-14. It doesn't have any of the 'evil features' like a collapsible stock, a thumbhole stock, a pistol grip, a forend grip or any of the other 'evil features'. Detachable magazines would be allowed as long as the rifle had a regular stock.

The way to avoid the whole issue is to vote these jackwagons out of office. I'm in California and I called my assemblyman today regarding today's vote... just sayin'. Had I been more prepared I should have called all month.

I've heard that most letters and phone calls are handled at the assistant-level (or assistant's assistant level), but if as few as 20 letters come in for the same issue on the same day then it reaches the ACTUAL representatives desk. That sounds ridiculous but think about how few people have EVER written a letter to ANY representative (local, city, or federal).

I just recently got here, and I'm not looking to stay, but as long as I'm here I might as well try to influence my representatives. A lot of people out here don't seem to realize that some people consider the 2nd Amendment to be as inalienable as the 1st.

-StaTiK-

F106 Fan
08-07-2012, 20:05
I used to think when things got bad enough people would come to their senses. I now realize the direction this country is headed is being set in the schools and universities on a daily basis. As things go downhill people will be crying for more government, not less.

I am WeeWilly and I approve this message. :)

That would be the same schools and universities that are going to get thrashed when Brown's tax measure fails. Considering the number of counties that plan to have their own 1/2 cent sales tax measure, there is a lot of pressure to reject Brown's and Munger's tax initiatives. Though I must say, there are a lot of Govt employees pimping the measures for their own benefit.

This may be an exciting election just watching the circus. If I were facing reelection, I don't think I would be talking about gun control in California. Anybody remember when Mayor Bradley came out in favor of Prop 15 back in 1982? He was almost certain to become Governor until he opened his mouth in support of the measure that would essentially outlaw handguns in California:

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_15,_Handgun_Registration_Initiative_(1982)

His career came right off the tracks! It has happened to others.

Richard

fella
08-07-2012, 21:53
That maybe all well and good for you. But you donít realize in how much I hate Liberals. I have been to California many of times but there is no way I would even dream of living there. Just plain and simple no way. Itís bad enough I have to put up this so called Socialist and other things, President we have now. That I donít even watch the news anymore. Have I said in how much I hate Liberals?


It really pains me that every discussion these days become us versus them, conservative versus liberal, with us or against us...

I'm certain if we had a discussion, you would label me as a communist, re-distribution of wealth, tree-hugging, welfare-state, greenie, pinko bastard....

Even though I value individual liberties, constitutional rights, and the value of the republic as much or more than anyone...

Damn shame.






Is this the reloading forum?

VN350X10
08-07-2012, 22:54
Thank you folks, but given a choice, I'll take the MORMON over the MORON !!

uncle albert

Rick from Kali
08-07-2012, 23:43
[QUOTE=F106 Fan;19280985]I'm pretty sure we can't buy SKSs in California.

at this time yes we still can....and this one is California Legal. and by the way this BP stock is made right here in SO. California by SGW.
Rick
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o301/rick4570/Picture361.jpg

WeeWilly
08-08-2012, 00:22
...This may be an exciting election just watching the circus. If I were facing reelection, I don't think I would be talking about gun control in California. Anybody remember when Mayor Bradley came out in favor of Prop 15 back in 1982? He was almost certain to become Governor until he opened his mouth in support of the measure that would essentially outlaw handguns in California:

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_15,_Handgun_Registration_Initiative_(1982)

His career came right off the tracks! It has happened to others.

Richard

I agree. Gun laws are a tricky proposition for politicians in most areas of the country, even otherwise Blue states. Contrary to the normal media coverage of the issue, who solely blame the gun lobby and "powerful industry interests", which are who? Politicians know that many of their democrat constituents are gun owners, making it not so simple just to vote yea on another control bill.

There are areas that are uniquely anti gun, where I live being one. Leland Yee runs essentially no risk proposing bills like his SB249, voting for it though by his colleagues is still tricky. Based on all the uproar that SB249 has generated, I would not be surprised if it gets shutdown, even in one of the most liberal legislatures in the country. I think the old curse goes something like, "may you live in interesting times", we nailed that one.

Hopefully getting a little back on track, some retailers won't ship me components (i.e. Midway), many won't ship me ammo (Able, Midway, etc), sometimes incorrectly according to current law. Ammo and components will likely be an active area for the anti gun efforts. It is too easy to force it to be local and then make it too much hassle for local retailers to conform to evolving laws. My prediction, ammo and components will be a very active battleground.

F106 Fan
08-08-2012, 00:27
I think a lot depends on the model of SKS. There was a buy-back program for some models purchased in a specific period. The rifles could be sold to DOJ for $230, handed over to law enforcement, sold out of state or destroyed.

From:
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/contracosta/FaxAlerts/sksalert.shtml


If you purchased an SKS Sporter between January 1, 1992, and December 19, 1997, you must do one of the following by January 1, 2000:



Destroy the rifle
Surrender the rifle to a law enforcement agency
Sell the rifle to a licensed California "assault weapon" dealer
Dispose of the rifle out of state


Richard

Rick from Kali
08-08-2012, 01:02
I think a lot depends on the model of SKS. There was a buy-back program for some models purchased in a specific period. The rifles could be sold to DOJ for $230, handed over to law enforcement, sold out of state or destroyed.

From:
http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/contracosta/FaxAlerts/sksalert.shtml



Richard

[/INDENT]


the SKS sporters that are mentioned above are the Chinese version of the SKS that use a detachable magazine..AK 47 Mags..or better known as the "D" and the "M" model. mine in the photo is a Russian model with a 10 round non detachable magazine. so in California you can own a SKS as long as it not the Chinese "D" or "M" model that will accept the AK 47 Mags. Yugo's,Russians.Romanian,Albainian, and the Chinese 10 rounder are still legal in California.
Rick

F106 Fan
08-08-2012, 07:58
Yes, I think you can own any variant that doesn't have a detachable magazine.

That's the same way the 'button guns' are allowed to be sold in California. It isn't an assault rifle unless the magazine is detachable.

Richard

fredj338
08-08-2012, 08:54
It really pains me that every discussion these days become us versus them, conservative versus liberal, with us or against us...

I'm certain if we had a discussion, you would label me as a communist, re-distribution of wealth, tree-hugging, welfare-state, greenie, pinko bastard....

Even though I value individual liberties, constitutional rights, and the value of the republic as much or more than anyone...

Damn shame.


Is this the reloading forum?

That's really what IS going on. It's been us vs them since the country started, it will stay so but for times of great national or world troubles. The gun issue is just one issue, an important one, but only one.
The economy is being erroded by govts at all levels. When the private sector workers are wroking solely to provide for the govt workers, you will eventually destroy any vibrant economy. We are pushing up against that now. No amount of taxing the rich is going to stop the death spiral, only drastic cutting of govt spending at every level. It's simple 6th grade math. The country can NOT sustain a $20T debt.
Weather in Kalif, yeah, hell of a price we pay for nice frickin weather. I will not retire here, far too many other states that would love to have another paying resident. With every new law, regulation & tax, people w/ any money are fleeing Kalif & will continue to do so. The state is not fixable, too many have-nots taking from the haves & I include govt workers in taking group. Yeah, sad, but unless we change direction, the entire state will travel the path of Kalif. So again, tell me there is no diff between Dems & Rep.:shocked: