failed military uniform surplus question [Archive] - Glock Talk

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agamemnon
07-31-2012, 19:13
so i think it is the ucp type that failed badly. anyway, i am wondering if anyone has seen these come up for sale? ya i get it, it is not effective camo. but i just would like something and hopefully cheap. i would think these would be a dime a dozen....
something to go camping/hiking/work on the truck.
thanks for any help.

Paul53
07-31-2012, 21:15
Army only spent $5 Billion on them. I'm sure they'll be in the Dollar Store soon.

Texas357
08-01-2012, 11:45
This one?
http://intarnet.us/images/acu_couch.jpg

RedHaze
08-01-2012, 12:17
^^^
That's the one. Silly Army.

GlockPride
08-01-2012, 13:04
Do 'Camo' uniforms really, really, play that much of an effective role in combat? I mean once you open with the ma deuce, artillery and CAS doesn't the enemy know you're there?

Maybe I missed something. I'm not saying go in with hi-viz like construction uniforms, but does one pattern solve the problem better than another?

wjv
08-01-2012, 14:03
This one?
http://intarnet.us/images/acu_couch.jpg

Dang. . I can barely see the two other soldiers sitting on that couch!!!

RWBlue
08-01-2012, 14:36
Do 'Camo' uniforms really, really, play that much of an effective role in combat? I mean once you open with the ma deuce, artillery and CAS doesn't the enemy know you're there?

Maybe I missed something. I'm not saying go in with hi-viz like construction uniforms, but does one pattern solve the problem better than another?

Depending on the uniform.....

The fact that I know you are there doesn't really mean I can get a good hit.

Good camo really does help.

RedHaze
08-01-2012, 20:07
Do 'Camo' uniforms really, really, play that much of an effective role in combat? I mean once you open with the ma deuce, artillery and CAS doesn't the enemy know you're there?

Maybe I missed something. I'm not saying go in with hi-viz like construction uniforms, but does one pattern solve the problem better than another?

The boots on the ground RARELY get to open with the ma deuce, arty, or CAS. They get to open with an M16/M4, a M249, and maybe a Mk12 Mod 0. (DMR rifle)

Effecctive camo allows you to control who shoots who first, which usually decides who gains fire superiourity first, which usually decides who wins.

So to sum it all up, camo matters. Big time.

Some patterns are way more effective than others. :wavey:

Sam Spade
08-01-2012, 20:12
Do 'Camo' uniforms really, really, play that much of an effective role in combat? I mean once you open with the ma deuce, artillery and CAS doesn't the enemy know you're there?

Maybe I missed something. I'm not saying go in with hi-viz like construction uniforms, but does one pattern solve the problem better than another?



You tell us. Who do you reckon is going to get shot first, PFC Multicam or SFC UCP?
http://domhyde.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/army-mil-47631-2009-08-12-020812.jpg

pugman
08-02-2012, 10:30
You tell us. Who do you reckon is going to get shot first, PFC Multicam or SFC UCP?
http://domhyde.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/army-mil-47631-2009-08-12-020812.jpg

And it onl took the Army 8 years and $5 billion dollars to answer this question?

Bilbo Bagins
08-02-2012, 13:53
You tell us. Who do you reckon is going to get shot first, PFC Multicam or SFC UCP?
http://domhyde.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/army-mil-47631-2009-08-12-020812.jpg

But surely you will not stand out in an urban battlefield:rofl:

#3 is UCP

http://www.itstactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/brick-wall.jpg

I think you would be better hidden wearing a Walmart long sleave T-shirt and Jeans then wearing that new Army camo. They should have just bought the rights to use Multicam and saved a few million.

RWBlue
08-02-2012, 15:18
If you want to talk about a fail, lets look at the navy camo......epic.

Glock30Eric
08-02-2012, 16:04
If you want to talk about a fail, lets look at the navy camo......epic.

LOL! OFC!


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Bren
08-02-2012, 19:26
If you want to talk about a fail, lets look at the navy camo......epic.

Have to admit, I prefer ACU to what the Navy and Air Force wear. In Afghanistan, the Navy wore ACU's when attached to the Army and the Marine stuff when attached to the Marines - never their own that I saw.

walt cowan
08-05-2012, 09:13
in the northeastern woods, during winter, gray works. black in summer and light to dark brown in fall.

Cavalry Doc
08-05-2012, 09:20
Do 'Camo' uniforms really, really, play that much of an effective role in combat? I mean once you open with the ma deuce, artillery and CAS doesn't the enemy know you're there?

Maybe I missed something. I'm not saying go in with hi-viz like construction uniforms, but does one pattern solve the problem better than another?

It does help a bit. The thing to remember is that movement gives you away, regardless of what pattern you are wearing.

Think back to the virtually invisible "predator" movie cammo. You could spot even an almost invisible alien, when it moved. Same goes for good cammo.

You have to consider that no cammo works for every situation, a uniform that would almost perfectly hide you where you are, might not 6 feet to the left of where you are.

TKM
08-05-2012, 09:21
If you want to talk about a fail, lets look at the navy camo......epic.


You know how I can tell that you've never seen the documentary Avatar?



It's the only explanation I can think of.:dunno:

FireForged
08-05-2012, 10:36
Do 'Camo' uniforms really, really, play that much of an effective role in combat?

As a layman and avid TV watcher... I think that the primary point to todays camo in todays fighting arena, is that you dont StanD OuT like a sore thumb in your environment, not that you totally blend in with it. If blending in was so important, they would all wear ghili suits.

cyrsequipment
08-05-2012, 16:13
If blending in was so important, they would all wear ghili suits.

Yea, because a ghillie suit in 115 degree heat, carrying 80lbs of gear is a viable option for the entire force. Camo, like firepower, is a compromise. Some is more compromising than others, but still a compromise.



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Cavalry Doc
08-05-2012, 19:07
I'm still trying to figure out what was wrong with woodland camo.

http://www.mind-the-gap.org.uk/irresistible/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/woodland-CAMO1.jpg

FireForged
08-05-2012, 22:14
Yea, because a ghillie suit in 115 degree heat, carrying 80lbs of gear is a viable option for the entire force. Camo, like firepower, is a compromise. Some is more compromising than others, but still a compromise.



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i was being sarcastic about the ghillie suit comment.. :dunno:

USSOCOM
08-05-2012, 23:29
Beyond MultiCam, I believe a lot of the hunting camo patterns out today are better.

humanguerrilla
08-06-2012, 03:29
ACUs would be interesting to try and dye if you could get a bunch. I'm not a fan of UCP but it actually breaks up alright at a distance, even in the woods. It's less green blob.


http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff166/ar15reloader/Picture020-2.jpg
not my pic. ty to poster and google.

AK_Stick
08-06-2012, 20:47
There are some places that the ACU's blend in. If you know what you're doing, and you know where you are, you can do a pretty good job even in the woods.

I got to see my brothers LRS-D team camo up on a family day event, and it was spooky how guys so close to you, could vanish even as you were watching them.


But also remember, alot of our ops, happen at night. And unlike the older desert camo/and BDU's that you could see fairly well at night, ACU's pretty much vanish as soon as direct light is off you.

We actually had issues in Iraq during the initial fielding of them, with guys getting between vehicles and their ground guides, because they were like ghosts.


Multicam, and some of the newer digital is pretty good stuff too. As are some of the civilian designs.


I wear the Sitka Gear "Forest" line when I hunt. As does my partner. And if I'm not watching him when he's walking, I've had him vanish on me from 200 yds.

RWBlue
08-06-2012, 21:31
But also remember, alot of our ops, happen at night. And unlike the older desert camo/and BDU's that you could see fairly well at night, ACU's pretty much vanish as soon as direct light is off you.

Maybe that is the key it was designed for night fighting.

Texas357
08-07-2012, 01:01
I'm still trying to figure out what was wrong with woodland camo.

http://www.mind-the-gap.org.uk/irresistible/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/woodland-CAMO1.jpg

Nobody could brag about how high-tech it was, and how much they spent on it?

banger
08-07-2012, 06:42
I am somewhat surprised that no one has noted that the human eye "trains itself" to recognize patterns including camouflage.

Frequently, when a new pattern is introduced, it seems quite effective. Yet, over a period of months, people "teach themselves" to pick it out of most settings.

Consider, my wife and I would travel through the country. As we drove along, she was oblivious to wildlife. I would point and remark on some deer or other animal in our view.

She on the other hand was oblivious to their presence. There were times we would walk along, when I would remark on not believing how close we walked to some rabbit.

This would nearly cause her response of "what rabbit?".

My point is that we "learn" to distinguish patterns and colors regardless of the design.

I can remember when Woodland camo first came onto the scene. It was fantastic!

It made people virtually disappear into the background. Now, they stand out like a sore thumb.

The pattern did not change, simply the human minds ability to distinguish the object.

SFCSMITH(RET)
08-07-2012, 06:46
I'm still trying to figure out what was wrong with woodland camo.

http://www.mind-the-gap.org.uk/irresistible/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/woodland-CAMO1.jpg

It was designed for a European campaign that never happened.

The truth is, as any bowhunter can tell you, is different patterns and colors are needed on the same ground at different times of the year/season, and the military mission is no different.. but it gets expensive to outfit 1/2 a million troops with 3-4 sets, in multiple patterns.. and then write a reg that covers when/how/why local command and higher can dictate which they are going to use. Heck, when the "light/summer weight" BDU came out.. the CSM's like to lost their minds trying to figure out what to do about that..

bdcochran
08-07-2012, 08:46
This thread has many good observations.

Many people cannot shake themselves free from the thinking of "one size fits all", "if the military issues it, it must be the best" or "if Guns and Ammo has it highlighted with accompanying ads, it must be the best".

Unfortunately, there is a learning curve and only you can decide what are the best clothes, shoes and equipment for yourselves.

jason10mm
08-08-2012, 11:40
I think the real reason you are not seeing much ACU pattern clothing in surplus stores is that the uniform itself is made so poorly none of it is in a condition worth surplusing. My uniforms last maybe a few months before significant degradation sets in, particularly of any velcro parts. I'm sure the gortex and other accesories will show up eventually (especially if we do transition to another pattern like what some troops are getting now) but I seriously doubt the ACU pattern will become the default garb of the nations homeless like the BDUs have become, the uniform is just too fragile.