My concealed carry choice for camping [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ithaca_deerslayer
08-03-2012, 22:31
Had to pick between
Ruger LCP .380
S&W 642 .38
Kahr PM9 9mm
Glock 26 9mm
Dan Wesson .44mag 4"

Nah, the 44 was not much in the running. Just too big. But wanted more power than the 380. Tough choice, went with the Kahr.

Black bear in the area, seen them there before. Would a 9mm 124gr Gold Dot stop one? Don't know, but I'd try it if needed. If thrashing in a tent and jamming it down the throat. Better than nothing.

Main reason to carry is the random threat of some bad guy, that you just never want to go down peacefully if it ever happened. Instead you'd fight to protect your family and yourself.

But in an anti-gun world it is not always easy to carry. No doubt any observed printing or sight of the gun would result in cops called and a big hassle or jail trip, even if no laws broken.

I carry everyday but the camping challenge involves time spent with inlaws with hugs. Public campsite bathrooms without locks and a guy walked in on me. Swimming and having my wife watch my bag of clothes. Not leaving my gun in a car no matter what restaurant, store, or amusement park everyone decided to go to. And not knowing if over a few days it was going to be hot, cold, rainy, dry, shirts off, or long sleeves on.

The nice thing about the Kahr PM9 (same size as the CM9) is that it can be carried on the waist or in a pocket. I like my Alabama kydex 360 IWB holster for it. When going potty, I'd stick the whole holstered gun in my pocket. I would not easily be able to do that with my Glock. That movement of the Kahr to the pocket also conceals well for beach bag stashing of pants while swimming.

6+1 of 9mm with a pocket carried spare mag of 7 more seems more comforting than a snubby load of 5 38's and the revolver's much slower reload of another 5 from a flat pack. While the Glock double stack mags hold more, they are a lot blockier for pocket carry. I also kept a second spare Kahr mag of 7 in my backpack, for 21 rounds total on the trip.

I love my Glock 26, but I have to keep my belt a lot tighter to conceal the bulkier gun under just a t-shirt. So the smaller and lighter Kahr allows for a much more relaxed trip that is full of potentially unknown clothing and activity situations :)

An interesting future gun for such a trip might be a Ruger SP101 or other similar sized .357mag for the increased bear effectiveness. Although they'd be extremely loud to let loose inside a tent :rofl: Or maybe the smallest Glock 10mm, and just work harder at concealment? I couldn't bring myself to tote the 26, so not sure a 10mm would have been with me, but maybe worth the increased power:)

TBO
08-03-2012, 22:39
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/170135_01_md.jpg
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766338_-1_757770_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/150545_01_md.jpg
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766211_-1_757770_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

ithaca_deerslayer
08-03-2012, 23:08
TBO, got any pics of that 629 next to a j frame snubby? Sure is purty :)

Gertz
08-03-2012, 23:33
Kel-Tec PF9

TBO
08-04-2012, 02:17
TBO, got any pics of that 629 next to a j frame snubby? Sure is purty :)

TBO, got any pics of that 629 next to a j frame snubby? Sure is purty
I don't own those two, but I do have a S&W 629 .44 Mag Mountain gun I am more than fond of.
It's my EDC Field gun.
When I go hiking/camping/exploring in the true woods (not some man made hiking trail a skip off the pavement) it's attached to my right hip. Carries very well and shoots damn fine (accuracy). I have photos somewhere, but my mainframe is down and I've been too busy to get it back up.
I might try to look at my remote backup location later.

ithaca_deerslayer
08-04-2012, 06:24
I don't own those two, but I do have a S&W 629 .44 Mag Mountain gun I am more than fond of.
It's my EDC Field gun.
When I go hiking/camping/exploring in the true woods (not some man made hiking trail a skip off the pavement) it's attached to my right hip. Carries very well and shoots damn fine (accuracy). I have photos somewhere, but my mainframe is down and I've been too busy to get it back up.
I might try to look at my remote backup location later.

These were not true woods in the sense of off the beaten path. That made the concealment part more important than the bear stomping part of the equation:)

dhkaiser
08-04-2012, 07:25
Bear Spray. Covers all your concerns and is legal.

Rustin
08-04-2012, 09:27
I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with "bear guns." Bear spray is much more effective in a close quarters encounter with a bear. It's an instant chemical reaction where with a gun a bear can soak up bullets and make it angrier before it bleeds out. Get the most powerful bear spray you can acquire and a .357 for the 2 legged critters and a backup if the bear spray doesn't dissuade the bear.

Heck, if I had the list of guns you had I'd sell the .380, as you already have two great deepcover guns, and I'd get an SP101 or a model 19 Smith!

And when is it camping when you have bathrooms and have to conceal?

Lior
08-04-2012, 09:35
Don't forget to enjoy the actual camping experience besides ordnance choices.

ithaca_deerslayer
08-04-2012, 09:42
I don't know why everyone is so obsessed with "bear guns." Bear spray is much more effective in a close quarters encounter with a bear. It's an instant chemical reaction where with a gun a bear can soak up bullets and make it angrier before it bleeds out. Get the most powerful bear spray you can acquire and a .357 for the 2 legged critters and a backup if the bear spray doesn't dissuade the bear.

Heck, if I had the list of guns you had I'd sell the .380, as you already have two great deepcover guns, and I'd get an SP101 or a model 19 Smith!

And when is it camping when you have bathrooms and have to conceal?
The bear part is very little in the whole equation, but that's what people focus on. Maybe some bear spray to have in the tent for next trip would be good idea. In the tent, in a sleeping bag, is the only time I give bears a thought. While no food in the tent, you never know when my kid is going to get a gummy bear stuck to the bottom of his shoe and attract the trouble bear you read about in the paper.

The more interesting thing to me, and what relates to carry issues, is how a few days on a camping trip can provide all sorts of concealment problems away from home. It was a kid playing with cousins in a campground, and daytrips to town, kind of camping trip. So, small crowded public bathrooms and showers make carrying interesting :)

I ain't selling no guns, don't be silly. The trick is to get the wife to agree on purchasing a small 357 or small 44 or a 10mm, to add to the list of choices :)

ithaca_deerslayer
08-04-2012, 09:47
Don't forget to enjoy the actual camping experience besides ordnance choices.

Yeah but for us gun nuts the trick is to do all that fun stuff, with a gun on us. The PM9 worked out pretty well. I'm now just talking, just pondering, about what more powerful choices I could get instead.

Also wanted to mention how the ability to pocket carry the whole IWB kydex holster and gun is useful at times.

LApm9
08-04-2012, 12:14
With the EXTREME sensitivity of a bear's nose, I would imagine that bear spray would be a living heck! I read that the statistics indicate that bear spray is more effective than a handgun.

A handgun would be most useful for snakes...two-legged snakes, or feral dogs. Forget the bear thing.

pizza
08-04-2012, 12:37
G19


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ithaca_deerslayer
08-04-2012, 12:39
With the EXTREME sensitivity of a bear's nose, I would imagine that bear spray would be a living heck! I read that the statistics indicate that bear spray is more effective than a handgun.

A handgun would be most useful for snakes...two-legged snakes, or feral dogs. Forget the bear thing.

Might be true, but it is also likely there is an anti-gun bias in the reporting and the cooking of the statistics. Bear attacks are so rare, I wonder what information there really is about it.

dakrat
08-04-2012, 12:45
to be honest, I would rather have a bear spray than any of those pistol you listed. with any pistol of your choice for the 2 legged attacker

pizza
08-04-2012, 13:02
to be honest, I would rather have a bear spray than any of those pistol you listed. with any pistol of your choice for the 2 legged attacker

Agreed. We have 20,000 bears in MN but my G19 isn't for bear protection. I haven't felt the need to bring any bear deterrent spray. I've only seen a bear on the trail once and it ran away as fast as it could when it saw me. If I were to bring spray it would be a small pepper spray can. Those counter assault bear canisters are impractically heavy to be lugging around hiking.


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RJ's Guns
08-04-2012, 13:21
I lived in Alaska for 12 years. Although my sampling may not reflect the general population (and I have no first hand personal experience with using bear spray as a defense in a bear attack), the few people that I know that have used it, were not favorably impressed nor did they recommend it to others. Furthermore, I do not recall anyone that I knew to be an experienced Alaskan woodsman, ever recommend bear spray. In fact, I recall a number of negative jokes about using bear spray which is, (in my experience) reflective of the general opinion among experienced Alaskan woodsmen, concerning that product.

No way would I want to use bear spray in the confines of a tent for fear that the spray would incapacitate me and anyone else in the tent with me. Being even partially/temporarily incapacitated in a tent with a pissed off bear would be something that I would want to avoid and I do not believe that to be a well thought out plan.
RJ

TBO
08-04-2012, 13:53
These were not true woods in the sense of off the beaten path. That made the concealment part more important than the bear stomping part of the equation:)For that type of a hike i carry my Kahr MK9.

Garweh
08-04-2012, 14:20
Our scout troop regularly takes weekend-long (Friday night to Sunday morning) backpacking trips in the Catskills and in the Adirondacks. Black bears are in both areas. BSA prohibits carrying firearms on scout trips. I always have my Kahr PM9 and my Ruger LCP with me. Kahr in pack, Ruger in pocket. Council president knows, parents know, some scouts know; NO problems. Better safe than sorry.

TBO
08-04-2012, 15:46
In the MN woods, there's really no animal that is going to come after you with malice (predation).
My actual harm worries would be a cow moose with young calf, mother bear with cub.
Hopefully I'll not stumble between the two(which should only be accidental, as you'd have to be a fool to intentionally put yourself in that situation).
Other then that a sick/rabid animal.

There's the outside chance of being attacked by a black bear, but lightning strikes claim more.

My .44 Mountain Gun gets more carry in the deep woods for factors other than a "bear attack".
If I need to take game to survive a .22 lr would be very handy, as red squirrel is the easiest to come by meat source, but the .44 can take large game AND is superior for signalling (at the expense of number of rounds of ammo).
Choose what works for you. Any gun is better than no gun.
I use to have a T/C Contender .44 Mag with internal choke that I loved. You could load your own .44 mag "hotshot" cartridges (long plastic shot capsule) and it out performed the .45 LC/.410 shotgun barrel (the .44 mag was "hotter"), but they quit making the hotshot capsules and you can only get the short ones now, so the 45/410 now is your only choice.
I've carried my Ruger .22lr pistol many times, but again, for the vast majority of my travels, Kahr MK9 for light/reg hikes, .44 Mountain Gun for back country.

ymmv

ithaca_deerslayer
08-04-2012, 18:02
No way would I want to use bear spray in the confines of a tent for fear that the spray would incapacitate me and anyone else in the tent with me. Being even partially/temporarily incapacitated in a tent with a pissed off bear would be something that I would want to avoid and I do not believe that to be a well thought out plan.

That's a good concern you raise.

ithaca_deerslayer
08-05-2012, 07:04
Our scout troop regularly takes weekend-long (Friday night to Sunday morning) backpacking trips in the Catskills and in the Adirondacks. Black bears are in both areas. BSA prohibits carrying firearms on scout trips. I always have my Kahr PM9 and my Ruger LCP with me. Kahr in pack, Ruger in pocket. Council president knows, parents know, some scouts know; NO problems. Better safe than sorry.

I want to make some comments, but don't want to seem like nitpicking your own choices that work for you.

When I carry, I don't let other people know. Parents or kids could spread the word around to the wrong person who takes offense at it. Even if no laws broken, some people might raise heck about certain policies. So it is surprising to me that you are so open about it.

The choice of two guns is interesting. If trouble happened, I wonder if that pack gun would seem very far away. Maybe nice to have a spare, but I'd worry about always keeping control of that pack at all times, every moment of the whole trip. The gun on my belt I know is with me and not with a kid. If a second gun, I'd have to keep them both with me. Even so, a pack carried Contender handgun in a rifle caliber would be a cool solution to some scenarios :)

ChuteTheMall
08-05-2012, 07:44
Open carry would have prevented this.




:tongueout:









You made the most powerful argument for the little Kahr, putting concealability above firepower, and explaining why you felt unable to dress around the G26. If you can actually operate the Kahr as effectively as the G26, then go with it.









Otherwise,

http://i47.tinypic.com/e9x7ao.jpg

ithaca_deerslayer
08-05-2012, 08:30
You made the most powerful argument for the little Kahr, putting concealability above firepower, and explaining why you felt unable to dress around the G26. If you can actually operate the Kahr as effectively as the G26, then go with it.


I can shoot the PM9 as well as the 26, but there is no doubt in my mind that the 26 is the better gun.

The slide racks easier, and more reliably, making reloads better, and the mags hold rounds better in a pocket, without them falling out loose.

So maybe rounds 1 to 7 they are equal, but after that, the Glock has several advantages :)

ithaca_deerslayer
08-05-2012, 08:41
2 days before the trip I practiced with the 642, then cleaned and oiled it, and said "I'm taking this."

1 day before the trip I practiced with the 26, then cleaned and oiled it, wore it around town for some errands, and said "I'm taking this."

Morning of the trip, I grabbed the PM9, cleaned and oiled it, and took it :)

Snidely Whiplash
08-05-2012, 09:39
Camping and hiking choice is always my trusty Walther P22 and a couple extra mags. It's accurate, light, and reliable as heck.

RJ's Guns
08-05-2012, 13:41
When I carry, I don't let other people know. :)

That is how I operate. Only the few people that "need to know," know that I am armed. I believe that it is not well thought out, to allow others to have such knowledge.

Even when I am in the woods carrying openly, no one knows what other handguns I am carrying concealed. My question is; why should they know? How does that knowledge help me or the ones that I feel duty bound to attempt to protect?

RJ

Snidely Whiplash
08-05-2012, 13:46
Even when I am in the woods carrying openly, no one knows what other handguns I am carrying concealed. My question is; why should they know? How does that knowledge help me or the ones that I feel duty bound to attempt to protect?
RJ
Nothing wrong with that philosophy.

happyguy
08-05-2012, 15:25
Don't forget to enjoy the actual camping experience besides ordnance choices.

Don't let the voice of reason ruin a good argument about guns. :wavey:

Regards,
Happyguy :)

cowboy1964
08-05-2012, 15:32
The PM9 was (is) the right choice if it means being protected 100% of the time instead of 75% or whatever. A bear isn't going to tell the difference between a PM9 or a Glock 26 or anything short of a bigger or more powerful caliber.

Deaf Smith
08-05-2012, 20:42
http://i47.tinypic.com/e9x7ao.jpg

yea that is one way!

I'd just take my SRH .454 in a cross draw. But the AK pistol has it's merits.

Deaf

Upstate Glocker
08-06-2012, 08:24
For venturing south of the Adirondacks in NY, the PM9 is fine. Light, small, not noticeable. The chances of a black bear attack are virtually zilch, but I carry for rabid fox, coyote, and the 2 legged predators. 9mm is enough. When we go into the Adirondacks I just prefer my G27. The .40 is just enough more umph to provide confidence. Over the years I've tried a G20/10mm and a S&W .44mag with 5" barrel, but they were just too heavy and bulky for the added advantage in NY woods. Now if I were in Brown bear, etc. territory I don't think anything short of a major caliber would do.

Garweh
08-06-2012, 09:59
ithaca_deerslayer:

You are correct that no one should know that I am carrying, unfortunately we had a rabid (I think, acting really strangely anyway) raccoon wander into camp early one Saturday morning. No way that anyone was going to get close to that animal to dispatch it. PM9 did the trick. Hard to hide the discharge of a firearm from other leaders and scouts. Now most just assume that I am armed. Though they do not know that I am usually carrying 2 guns. The LCP is great for hiking during the day, easily concealed and lightweight. The PM9 is accessible at all time while in camp and my pack stays with me at all times if there is a gun in it.

I know what you are saying about the Glock and the PM9. I have a Glock27 that is awesome. Still, the PM9 is a real shooter and is my goto.

AKRover
08-06-2012, 11:12
A Springfield XDS in 45 may be the thing you need to carry while camping. For black bears and two-legged threats I'd trust the 45ACP round and the gun isn't much bigger than those in your list, if at all.

I live in Alaska so my whole life is spent in bear country. I normally carry one of my 10mm pistols but seriously consider the XDS as a backup gun, probably in an ankle holster.

cloudbuster
08-06-2012, 13:25
I do a lot of riding and ranch work and I've found, without thinking it through, that the pistol that keeps winding up on my waist is the Ruger KLCR .357 magnum. Either in a Wilderness Safepacker (when I'm doing stuff like fence repair and I don't want the gun getting banged up and filthy), or a FIST K2 (http://www.fist-inc.com/holsters/k1/K2.htm) high-rise Kydex OWB -- I conceal the latter with just an untucked shirt.

It's versatile, durable and doesn't get in the way. I usually load the first round with snake shot, because snakes and rats and such are the things I'm most likely to happen across. If it's something bigger, then the four rounds of .357 magnum Golden Sabers after it ought to do.

A speed loader and a speed strip in the Safepacker, or just a speed strip in my pocket for reloads.

ithaca_deerslayer
08-06-2012, 16:18
You are correct that no one should know that I am carrying, unfortunately we had a rabid (I think, acting really strangely anyway) raccoon wander into camp early one Saturday morning. No way that anyone was going to get close to that animal to dispatch it. PM9 did the trick. Hard to hide the discharge of a firearm from other leaders and scouts. Now most just assume that I am armed.

Ah, that makes more sense :)

Let them assume away!

NEOH212
08-06-2012, 16:26
Bear Spray. Covers all your concerns and is legal.

Great idea......






























Then what do you do when it doesn't work......:whistling:

cloudbuster
08-06-2012, 19:13
Then what do you do when it doesn't work......:whistling:

Spray it on yourself. If you have to go, you don't want to be remembered as a bland, tasteless meal.

cowboy1964
08-06-2012, 19:21
A Springfield XDS in 45 may be the thing you need to carry while camping. For black bears and two-legged threats I'd trust the 45ACP round and the gun isn't much bigger than those in your list, if at all.


Against bad guys, maybe. A 3" .45 against bears? Makes no more sense than a 3" 9mm really.

Alpine
08-06-2012, 21:03
I just carry my G30 everywhere - camping, church, shopping, bicycling, the list goes on.

LApm9
08-07-2012, 15:39
I was in a backpacking shop in the Appalachians and asked the thin, long haired, hippy looking owner which bear spray he carried. His reply: " Colt Commander"

HKLovingIT
08-08-2012, 11:08
I have a Mossberg 590 that sleeps in the tent with me.
Some of these: http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/blackmagic.html Bears beware. Odds of encountering bear? Very slim, but I do like to keep all my food and a lot of bags of marshmallows and raw steaks in there. :rofl:

Otherwise I just run around with whatever during the day for same reasons OP mentioned. PM9 or G26 is dandy.

I love bear threads!

Captain Caveman
08-08-2012, 11:27
Bear Spray. Covers all your concerns and is legal.


Here's the problem I have with spray. The bear better be at least 10ft away when you use it. If it's any closer, just spray it on yourself, the bear will appreciate the seasoning. If it's any further than 10ft, it had better be a strong stream. But even if it is, you must make sure you are down wind, and hope the wind doesn't change suddenly. If it does and it comes back to you, you just incapacitated yourself. If you use it inside a confined area, you may as well resign yourself to becoming the bi**ch.

This comes as first hand experience using pepper spray against humans. It sucks for all parties involved. But most of all you, because no matter what you ALWAYS get sprayed.

For me, it would be a 4" .357mag with 158gr JSP in the lower 48. North of the border, a minimum of a 4" .44mag with 300gr. solids.