Mosque Set Ablaze in Joplin. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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High-Gear
08-06-2012, 11:17
Apparently this is the second arson at this mosque this summer, and this time it was burned to the ground. I read about this, and then did a search to find this type of crime is rampant. Even in my own city this year. I have posted links to just a few article's below.

I wonder, where is the outrage from those who also profess a faith and find their houses of worship sacred? Why are Chrstians not vocal about these attacks? I would think they would denounce any act of aggression on a house of worship as vile.

It goes hand in hand with the shooting at the Seik temple. Why have we as the most advanced arm of the Western Civilization resorted to these types of third world actions? Maybe because we are not as modern and reasonable as we would like to think we are?

Just food for thought.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48530996

http://www.kansas.com/2011/10/31/2084507/fire-heavily-damages-west-wichita.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/25/oregon-mosque-firebombing-hate-crime_n_936359.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/04/local/la-me-0905-madera-mosque-20100830

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/chantilly-mosque-vandalized/2012/01/31/gIQAn6JWfQ_blog.html

DonGlock26
08-06-2012, 11:19
Is this workplace violence like the Ft. Hood murders or hate crimes?


_

High-Gear
08-06-2012, 11:45
Who said the Ft. Hood murders were "workplace violence"? Domestic terrorism is the term I think.

rich52us
08-06-2012, 12:02
[QUOTE=High-Gear;19277328]
I wonder, where is the outrage from those who also profess a faith and find their houses of worship sacred? Why are Chrstians not vocal about these attacks? I would think they would denounce any act of aggression on a house of worship as vile.


Just food for thought.

[QUOTE]

I am in no way condoning or excusing illegal or bigoted behavior by anyone at any time.

Where is the OUTRAGE by Moslems for what the radicals of their faith do in the name of Islam?

Woofie
08-06-2012, 12:04
They're just going to explain it away, because Muslims have committed 19000 crimes and not all Christians are perfect.

TheExplorer
08-06-2012, 12:10
Unarmed civilians getting murdered is never a good thing regardless of religious beliefs. And yes, it is being classified as domestic terrorism.

Cavalry Doc
08-06-2012, 12:42
Sounds like a crime was committed, I'd be all for capturing and prosecuting all those involved, just the same as the rash of church burnings a few years back. Burning someone's property is a very bad thing.

Cavalry Doc
08-06-2012, 12:49
Just a thought, but we're there any cries of outrage from non-christian religious organizations (including atheists) during that rash of church burnings? I can't remember any at the moment.

I did a quick Internet search, and found more about Muslims burning churches than protesting their burning????

http://www.google.com/search?q=muslims+protest+church+burning&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari


Odd?

Roering
08-06-2012, 15:10
Apparently this is the second arson at this mosque this summer, and this time it was burned to the ground. I read about this, and then did a search to find this type of crime is rampant. Even in my own city this year. I have posted links to just a few article's below.

I wonder, where is the outrage from those who also profess a faith and find their houses of worship sacred? Why are Chrstians not vocal about these attacks? I would think they would denounce any act of aggression on a house of worship as vile.

It goes hand in hand with the shooting at the Seik temple. Why have we as the most advanced arm of the Western Civilization resorted to these types of third world actions? Maybe because we are not as modern and reasonable as we would like to think we are?

Just food for thought.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48530996

http://www.kansas.com/2011/10/31/2084507/fire-heavily-damages-west-wichita.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/25/oregon-mosque-firebombing-hate-crime_n_936359.html

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/04/local/la-me-0905-madera-mosque-20100830

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/chantilly-mosque-vandalized/2012/01/31/gIQAn6JWfQ_blog.html

Now it looks more like a Mosque in the Middle East.

DonGlock26
08-06-2012, 15:11
Who said the Ft. Hood murders were "workplace violence"? Domestic terrorism is the term I think.

Lawmakers Blast Administration For Calling Fort Hood Massacre ‘Workplace Violence’

http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/08/lawmakers-blast-administration-for-calling-fort-hood-massacre-workplace-violence/


.

High-Gear
08-06-2012, 16:22
Lawmakers Blast Administration For Calling Fort Hood Massacre ‘Workplace Violence’

http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/08/lawmakers-blast-administration-for-calling-fort-hood-massacre-workplace-violence/


.
I'd like to read the letter and see what the context was.

If it truly was PC run amuck, it would be a shame. Unfortunately we seem to have two camps, those who are fear mongers, and those who are PC-lillies. We can speak openly about issues, without worrying about public opinion or being overly paranoid.

High-Gear
08-06-2012, 16:23
Just a thought, but we're there any cries of outrage from non-christian religious organizations (including atheists) during that rash of church burnings? I can't remember any at the moment.

I did a quick Internet search, and found more about Muslims burning churches than protesting their burning????

http://www.google.com/search?q=muslims+protest+church+burning&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari


Odd?

In the US?

Cavalry Doc
08-06-2012, 20:22
In the US?

Had me worried there for a second, thought I mistakenly brought up a religious issue in GTPI. But then I realized I was in the right place.

Scroll through the results. Go at least 4 pages. In the US? Why would that matter in a religious context?

Geko45
08-07-2012, 18:11
Just a thought, but we're there any cries of outrage from non-christian religious organizations (including atheists) during that rash of church burnings?

I didn'ty know about them. I'll admit being a bit disconnected from organized religion nowadays, but I don't support violence of any sort to supress. Education yes, violence no.

snowbird
08-08-2012, 19:31
where is the outrage ...Why have we ... resorted to these types of third world actions? Maybe because we are not as modern and reasonable as we would like to think we are?

"Why have WE resorted..."? Speak for yourself. I don't know of any Christians burning any buildings. Are you burning buildings? Lots of Muslims burn lots of churches, often with the congregation still inside. And Islam teaches takiyya, lying. Did it occur to you that maybe a Muslim burned this mosque for some reason, and now they're falsely playing the victim card as they so often do?

And aren't you being a bit racist here, "these types of third world actions"?

But where indeed is the outrage over today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11, which has reached 19,392? Nobody died in this Joplin arson case, but many thousands have died in the ongoing jihad being waged against us by Islam. Why your silence about that? Maybe you're not as modern and reasonable as you like to think you are?

"We need leaders, not appeasers"
-Tommy Robinson, leader of the EDL (English Defense League)

Kingarthurhk
08-09-2012, 05:51
They're just going to explain it away, because Muslims have committed 19000 crimes and not all Christians are perfect.

Sadly, people behave this way. Even Atheists:

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20100224-Atheist-books-guns-found-at-8793.ece

snowbird
08-09-2012, 10:42
One day after 20 innocent Christian worshippers were machine-gunned to death by Muslim savages during the service at Deeper Life Church, an unexploded Muslim bomb has been found at the Revival Church.

If the schoolyard bully isn't resisted, he'll be back again next day. Of course, this imagery falls far short due to the wanton bloodiness of Islam. And this gore deepens the complicit guilt of leftist toadies who support jihad, who implement continuing Muslim colonization of the West, and who do their worst to keep attacking Christianity, destroying our economy, pulverizing the cornerstone of society, the family, disarming Americans, etc.

They laugh now, but God's judgement will come upon the wicked. "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" -Matthew 3:2.

Woofie
08-09-2012, 11:40
Sadly, people behave this way. Even Atheists:

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20100224-Atheist-books-guns-found-at-8793.ece

Crime transcends religion, social class, race, gender, or any other category you can think of. It's sad when anybody does it.

youngdocglock
08-09-2012, 11:44
I believe it is caused by wussy pansy bigots, who instead of dealing internally with their hatred feel the need to lash out against others like 12 year olds ripping off the head of their sisters barbie. Its kind of sickening. We had a Jewish temple in the next town over attacked a while back. Some idiot through Jewish people were the same as Muslims and rolled the head of a pig down the center isle during service..........I dont get the amount of hatred in this country. Live and let be. People need to learn that quickly.

void *
08-09-2012, 11:49
Obviously an Islamist taqqiya plot to persecute non-Muslims. Obviously.

Kingarthurhk
08-09-2012, 13:03
Crime transcends religion, social class, race, gender, or any other category you can think of. It's sad when anybody does it.

I agree it is sad.

seanmac45
08-09-2012, 14:07
Burn them all down for all I care.

They kill us with impunity in the world arena

snowbird
08-09-2012, 18:48
Jihad goes beyond crime. Jihad is warfare. Islam mandates it. Inasmuch as any given Muslim does not practice jihad, he is not being a "good" Muslim.

As for hatred of Jewish people, one hadith says that (at the Day of Judgement) "the Jew will hide behind stones and trees...(which) will say O Muslims,...there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him". This has become part of the charter of Hamas. That would be the same Hamas that Sec. of State Hillary Clinton gave $147 million of our tax dollars to in fiscal 2011.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" -Ephesians 6:12

Kingarthurhk
08-09-2012, 20:45
Burn them all down for all I care.

They kill us with impunity in the world arena

That really doesn't solve anything.

seanmac45
08-10-2012, 06:04
You know what, you're right. It doesn't.

However, having spent four months digging for the bodies of friends has changed my outlook on the muslim ":faith".

We (and by that I mean ALL non-muslims) are in a war for our very existence. The sad part is how few realize that fact. Their "faith" is predicated upon world domination, and nothing less. In their view, you are either a muslim, an imminent convert or a target. There is no peaceful coexistence with a religion whose basic tenet is the domination and extinction of all non-believers.

Set aside the fact that they want to kill all of us and you can look at the good aspects of that "faith".

The treatment of women as chattel.

The belief in pedophilia.

The fact that their holy book has passages on how their faithful should handle animals with which they have had sex.

Yes, I am right there listening to all that CAIR has to say about the upside to our muslim brothers.

Now having said that, I have spent my entire life upholding the law. I would never break the law or take it into my own hands. They are not worth the sacrifice of my integrity to do so.

HOWEVER, if someone is burning down their mosques I will not shed a tear. I will not hypocritically say "How awful".

I will gladly sit down with a cold beverage and a bowl of popcorn and watch the videos for my amusement.

With no apologies to anyone anywhere at any time whatsoever.

Kingarthurhk
08-10-2012, 06:14
You know what, you're right. It doesn't.

However, having spent four months digging for the bodies of friends has changed my outlook on the muslim ":faith".

We (and by that I mean ALL non-muslims) are in a war for our very existence. The sad part is how few realize that fact. Their "faith" is predicated upon world domination, and nothing less. In their view, you are either a muslim, an imminent convert or a target. There is no peaceful coexistence with a religion whose basic tenet is the domination and extinction of all non-believers.

Set aside the fact that they want to kill all of us and you can look at the good aspects of that "faith".

The treatment of women as chattel.

The belief in pedophilia.

The fact that their holy book has passages on how their faithful should handle animal which with they have had sex.

Yes, I am right there listening to all that CAIR has to say about the upside to our muslim brothers.

Now having said that, I have spent my entire life upholding the law. I would never break the law or take it into my own hands. They are not worth the sacrifice of my integrity to do so.

HOWEVER, if someone is burning down their mosques I will not shed a tear. I will not hypocritically say "How awful".

I will gladly sit down with a cold beverage and a bowl of popcorn and watch the videos for my amusement.

With no apologies to anyone anywhere at any time whatsoever.

I still believe in the First Amendment, no matter how vile I perceive the religion. Because, in granting them freedom of faith, you insure it for yourself in the future.

If we pick and choose who gets to have freedom in this country, it ceases to be a free country.

I have had friends/classmates die on the undeclared war on the border. I have been shot at by the Mexican military. I have been injured and broken without recompense while holding that line. Does that mean I despise all people of a hispanic heritage-no I don't.

Hating a group of people for what you have been through solves nothing.

I could take your perspective and be bitter and angry and resentful for losing people, getting jacked up and still bearing the consequences of getting hurt. I could. But, what does that get me? A belly full of anger and a belly full of hate. That seems to add injury to injury in my opinion.

There are a group of guys wearing green that try to keep terrorists out everyday, and defend this country and pay for it with life and limb. There is no veterans day for them. In fact, they are currently one of the most hated groups in the United States. Just ask congress, their paychecks are to blame for the debt. The American people by that and despise them in return. Then all the liberal groups hate them because they are the front line face of immigration.

Despite all that, you won't find them by-in-large hating hispanics. I don't. Put the hate down, it only hurts yourself.

UrbanOps
08-10-2012, 06:28
I live less than half a mile from the Mosque that burned. Even though I don't agree with their religion, I really feel for them. There are several organizations lending a helping hand to the church. FBI is all over town working the case. I have confidence the culprit will be caught. We now have a potential eye-witness...a newspaper carrier.

snowbird
08-10-2012, 09:19
I still believe in the First Amendment...

...which doesn't prevent us from defending ourselves and our families from military attacks upon our unarmed civilians (remember 9/11?) from a fascist form of government disguised as a 'religion'.

As corrupt as Mexican society is, it doesn't have a 'holy' book and 'prophet' telling it to kill any who refuse to submit.

Self-defense isn't 'hate', no matter what political correctness says. Why did Jesus say buy a sword?

Animal Mother
08-10-2012, 13:12
Now having said that, I have spent my entire life upholding the law. I would never break the law or take it into my own hands. They are not worth the sacrifice of my integrity to do so.

HOWEVER, if someone is burning down their mosques I will not shed a tear. I will not hypocritically say "How awful".
Doesn't upholding the law include both condemning and punishing those who commit the crime of arson?

seanmac45
08-10-2012, 14:44
I'm retired. I can afford to sit back and watch society play out its' stupid games now.


And I get paid to do so every month for the rest of my life.

Kingarthurhk
08-10-2012, 14:48
...which doesn't prevent us from defending ourselves and our families from military attacks upon our unarmed civilians (remember 9/11?) from a fascist form of government disguised as a 'religion'.

As corrupt as Mexican society is, it doesn't have a 'holy' book and 'prophet' telling it to kill any who refuse to submit.

Self-defense isn't 'hate', no matter what political correctness says. Why did Jesus say buy a sword?

I could make the same argument regarding Catholicism given its violent history of torture, genocide, murder, repression, opression that lasted over 1260 years and its unremorseful position and desire to grab secular power even today. But, I would not wise advocate hating Catholic parishners, nor burning down Cathedrals; but, asserting that these same said parishners has the same God given right as me as affirmed by the First Amendment to worship in freedom.

For the Islam, I assert the same.

When we decide that certain religious groups must be castigated and their freedoms striped based on a public consensus, then we are only two steps away from the ghettos of World War II and the camps and the atrocities that came with it.

Until, you as a Christian, see that Christ is about loving your enemy and praying for those who despitefully use you, then what possible progress can be made?

rich52us
08-10-2012, 15:11
I could make the same argument regarding Catholicism given its violent history of torture, genocide, murder, repression, opression that lasted over 1260 years and its unremorseful position and desire to grab secular power even today. But, I would not wise advocate hating Catholic parishners, nor burning down Cathedrals; but, asserting that these same said parishners has the same God given right as me as affirmed by the First Amendment to worship in freedom.

For the Islam, I assert the same.

When we decide that certain religious groups must be castigated and their freedoms striped based on a public consensus, then we are only two steps away from the ghettos of World War II and the camps and the atrocities that came with it.

Until, you as a Christian, see that Christ is about loving your enemy and praying for those who despitefully use you, then what possible progress can be made?

But it's the teachings and beliefs of Islam itself that sets it apart. Not the Americans and non-Moslem "Infidels" they believe they must convert or kill. "We" didn't decide, they did.

And I'm sick and tired of terrorists using our beliefs and freedoms against us.

snowbird
08-10-2012, 16:18
But it's the teachings and beliefs of Islam itself that sets it apart. Not the Americans and non-Moslem "Infidels" they believe they must convert or kill. "We" didn't decide, they did.

And I'm sick and tired of terrorists using our beliefs and freedoms against us.

Good post, rich52us!



Kingarthurhk,

Luke 9:49-50 "And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy Name, and we forbad him, because he followeth thee not with us.
Then Jesus said unto him, Forbid ye him not: for he that is not against us, is with us". IMHO, these words of Jesus mean that different denominations are okay. Although I was raised protestant, I was taught to respect other denominations, and other faiths even, as long as they are peaceful (that excludes Islam and militant atheist communists or Nazis). I was influenced away from agnosticism and back to Christ by reading Solzhenitsyn, a Russian Orthodox Christian. For the last few years, I've been attending Lutheran and Roman Catholic services/masses every other week alternatively. I don't partake of the host during eucharist at the RC church because they want only members doing that, but it's okay to go up and receive a blessing from the priest (just fold your arms in front, hands on your shoulders) if you want to. I've done that quite a few times.

James 5:9 "Grudge ye not against one another, brethren..." The Devil, and sometimes his Muslim allies, was the only winner when Christians fought against each other. The Thirty Years War has been over for more than 3 and a half centuries now. Don't try to bring it back.

As for loving your enemy; Jesus did not say "surrender to the enemy". Again, why do you think He said buy a sword? I can say a loving little prayer that the (Muslim or Marxist) enemy come to his senses and stop trying to kill me and rape my kids, even while I'm shooting back at him in self-defense. Comprende?

Cavalry Doc
08-10-2012, 18:09
I'm retired. I can afford to sit back and watch society play out its' stupid games now.


And I get paid to do so every month for the rest of my life.

Maybe not here, but admit that elsewhere, and the jealous people that opted not to take the same risks will come out against you.

Thanks for your service. :patriot:

Animal Mother
08-10-2012, 21:24
But it's the teachings and beliefs of Islam itself that sets it apart. Not the Americans and non-Moslem "Infidels" they believe they must convert or kill. "We" didn't decide, they did. What religion doesn't historically practice that kind of behavior? Where, in the US, are Muslims trying to forcibly convert people? Don't we already have laws that forbid that kind of thing.
And I'm sick and tired of terrorists using our beliefs and freedoms against us.You believe that freedom should only extend to the people that agree with you?

Animal Mother
08-10-2012, 21:26
I can say a loving little prayer that the (Muslim or Marxist) enemy come to his senses and stop trying to kill me and rape my kids, even while I'm shooting back at him in self-defense. Comprende?Do you spend a lot of time fantasizing about shooting people snowy?

Kingarthurhk
08-11-2012, 02:19
But it's the teachings and beliefs of Islam itself that sets it apart. Not the Americans and non-Moslem "Infidels" they believe they must convert or kill. "We" didn't decide, they did.

And I'm sick and tired of terrorists using our beliefs and freedoms against us.

And the Jews hated the pagan Romans.

And the Christians were tortured, murdered, and forced into catacombs by pagan Romans.

And when the Christians merged with Roman pagans they did the same to anyone that disagreed with them for 1260 years, bent on world domination and still is.

Then came Islam who was beng on world domination and still is.

It is all a matter of perspective.

Which other groups would you deny civil liberties to?

If we decide who can have civli liberties based on a pupularity contest, it would ebb and flow with the fickleness of society.

Should we argue that because statistically more black offenders are in jail that we should rescend their civil liberties in the interest of law and order?

It is is one thing to be disgusted by the actions of any particular group, it is another thing entirely to strip them of their civil rights.

So, I posit, you don't have to like the religion of Islam. I don't.

But, I respect the fact not every Muslim is a terrorist, though lately the large predonderance of them have been.

I aslo respect the fact that not every hispanic is by inference is an illegal alien, though there are millions of them. I would never suggest suspending their constitutional rights.

So, I would also not suggest suspending the constiutional rights of Muslims, Catholcs, or anyone else.

For, when you do, you have destroyed the fundamental concept of what America is about, and you have opened the door for that same repression to directed at you with the fickleness of society.

midnitesi
08-11-2012, 03:52
should hold the news responsible, if they ever report more than one initial report and one follow up report....copy cat crimes happen,

sadly there are parts of society out there that doesnt understand that not all muslims are extremests, many are normal everyday good hearted people, who suffer cuz someone took too many drops to the head as a baby and cant understand ****

rich52us
08-11-2012, 04:26
What religion doesn't historically practice that kind of behavior? Where, in the US, are Muslims trying to forcibly convert people? Don't we already have laws that forbid that kind of thing.
You believe that freedom should only extend to the people that agree with you?

There's a big difference in my mind between what people do, and what the doctrine of a religion is. What non-Islamic scriptures use words like "jihad", A holy war on behalf of the faith. Or "fatwa", a pronouncement in the name of the faith to attack and kill others, (like the one that obligates the faithful to attack the Danish cartoonist). Ask the Christians of Egypt if they feel they have not been threatened if they do not convert.

And don't put words in my mouth or twist what I have said. Show me what words of mine say I believe freedom should only be for people that agree with me. I started out by saying I DO NOT condone what was done.

Look at my avatar. I swore an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States and I have never, and will never deviate from that. Tell me if we could even be having this discussion in Saudi Arabia, Iran, or any other country whos government is an Islamic theocracy.

The teachings and doctrine of Islam have told me that they are my enemy because I won't disavow my faith to join theirs. If mainstream Moslems disagree with this then let them stand up against the radicals who may have hijacked their faith. In this case, if they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.

Now, you may disagree with me, but frankly, I don't give a rats *****. However, in this country, I will defend your right to disagree and state your disagreement within the laws.

rich52us
08-11-2012, 04:28
Kingarthurk see above.

Kingarthurhk
08-11-2012, 05:00
There's a big difference in my mind between what people do, and what the doctrine of a religion is. What non-Islamic scriptures use words like "jihad", A holy war on behalf of the faith. Or "fatwa", a pronouncement in the name of the faith to attack and kill others, (like the one that obligates the faithful to attack the Danish cartoonist). Ask the Christians of Egypt if they feel they have not been threatened if they do not convert.

And don't put words in my mouth or twist what I have said. Show me what words of mine say I believe freedom should only be for people that agree with me. I started out by saying I DO NOT condone what was done.

Look at my avatar. I swore an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States and I have never, and will never deviate from that. Tell me if we could even be having this discussion in Saudi Arabia, Iran, or any other country whos government is an Islamic theocracy.

The teachings and doctrine of Islam have told me that they are my enemy because I won't disavow my faith to join theirs. If mainstream Moslems disagree with this then let them stand up against the radicals who may have hijacked their faith. In this case, if they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.

Now, you may disagree with me, but frankly, I don't give a rats *****. However, in this country, I will defend your right to disagree and state your disagreement within the laws.

By your same argument, we should invade the Vatican. It is a theocractical state, has a place in the United Nationas, also bent on world domination, controlled the world for 1260 years of its history, and has an unrepentant history of genocide and slaughter to anyone who disagrees with her.

But, I am by no means advocating that.

Ask the Waldensians, that remain what they think of the majority of their people's being wiped out. Ask the primitive Christians of the British isles what they thought when they met Roman Catholicism that told them to accept their doctrine on pain of death, and then executed that same said decision. Ask the slaughtered people of Toullouse. Ask the entire Hugenot protestant population that was genocided.

Ask John Huss, William Tyndale, Wycliffe, the people of Bohemia who had a Crussade declared against them by Pope Martin IV (I guess you could use the term "Jihad" they are fairly interchangable). I can keep going and going and going.

To this day, the perspective of Rome has not changed, it merely lacks the global teeth to keep carrying out what it has done before.

Now, you are angry with Islam because it is in your current view as you live your brief life on this earth.

History is bigger than you, institutions have been around longer than you. And because of myopic views, without taking in the totality to what has come before, it gets repeated.

Now, all that being said, I have strong problems with the Catholc religion, I have strong problems with the Islamic religion.

But, the last thing I want to do is take away the freedom of its adherants.

I could be like you, and say I have no sympathy for Catholics, or as you say Islamics. But, I know good Catholic people. One of my very good friends is a very well meaning Catholic. We work side by side, and when it comes to work, there is nothing we won't do for the other. I have had the man and his wife at my home sharing a meal together. I have no hatred for him because of his faith. I think his religious choice is misguided, but he is humble follower of Christ with what he understands and knows.

His church hierachy in Rome may hate me, but he doesn't. I think the doctrines of his church are the doctrines of devils, but he is no devil and I have no hatred for him.

Now, in order to have a pluaristic functioning United States with freedom and a Bill of Rights for all, that is the draw of the world because of these freedoms, we have afford those same freedoms to organizations that we find to be anathema.

I find the conceot of Atheism offensive. But, I will gladly defned the right of the Atheist to be Atheist. I find Islam to be a false religion in every sense, but I will defiend the Muslim's right to be Islamic in this country. I find Catholicism to be an anathema, but I will gladly defend the Catholics right ot be Catholic.

That is the Christian principal. From the fall of Lucifer, to the Garden of Eden, and forward God has allowed us all free will. Jesus, when he walked this earth, gave all people a choice, and still does. So, if you call yourself a Christian, you cannot oppose people to freely choose rightly or wrongly. Jesus suffered and died on the cross because He allowed free will for all of His creatures.

rich52us
08-11-2012, 05:10
By your same argument, we should invade the Vatican. It is a theocractical state, has a place in the United Nationas, also bent on world domination, controlled the world for 1260 years of its history, and has an unrepentant history of genocide and slaughter to anyone who disagrees with her.

But, I am by no means advocating that.

Ask the Waldensians, that remain what they think of the majority of their people's being wiped out. Ask the primitive Christians of the British isles what they thought when they met Roman Catholicism that told them to accept their doctrine on pain of death, and then executed that same said decision. Ask the slaughtered people of Toullouse. Ask the entire Hugenot protestant population that was genocided.

Ask John Huss, William Tyndale, Wycliffe, the people of Bohemia who had a Crussade declared against them by Pope Martin IV (I guess you could use the term "Jihad" they are fairly interchangable). I can keep going and going and going.

To this day, the perspective of Rome has not changed, it merely lacks the global teeth to keep carrying out what it has done before.

Now, you are angry with Islam because it is in your current view as you live your brief life on this earth.

History is bigger than you, institutions have been around longer than you. And because of myopic views, without taking in the totality to what has come before, it gets repeated.

Now, all that being said, I have strong problems with the Catholc religion, I have strong problems with the Islamic religion.

But, the last thing I want to do is take away the freedom of its adherants.

I could be like you, and say I have no sympathy for Catholics, or as you say Islamics. But, I know good Catholic people. One of my very good friends is a very well meaning Catholic. We work side by side, and when it comes to work, there is nothing we won't do for the other. I have had the man and his wife at my home sharing a meal together. I have no hatred for him because of his faith. I think his religious choice is misguided, but he is humble follower of Christ with what he understands and knows.

His church hierachy in Rome may hate me, but he doesn't. I think the doctrines of his church are the doctrines of devils, but he is no devil and I have no hatred for him.

Now, in order to have a pluaristic functioning United States with freedom and a Bill of Rights for all, that is the draw of the world because of these freedoms, we have afford those same freedoms to organizations that we find to be anathema.

I find the conceot of Atheism offensive. But, I will gladly defned the right of the Atheist to be Atheist. I find Islam to be a false religion in every sense, but I will defiend the Muslim's right to be Islamic in this country. I find Catholicism to be an anathema, but I will gladly defend the Catholics right ot be Catholic.

That is the Christian principal. From the fall of Lucifer, to the Garden of Eden, and forward God has allowed us all free will. Jesus, when he walked this earth, gave all people a choice, and still does. So, if you call yourself a Christian, you cannot oppose people to freely choose rightly or wrongly. Jesus suffered and died on the cross because He allowed free will for all of His creatures.

Here's another example of a response that puts words in my mouth and atributes a philosophy to what I said that isn't there. So, I'm done responding to this kind of nonesense. Also, I guess you missed the part where I said "I don't give a rats *****.

I'm on Glock Talk because of my interest in firearms. I usually don't get into threads on other topics. My mistake. Back to firearms. Out.

eracer
08-11-2012, 06:30
Why do Imams not denounce terrorism?

The same reason Christian leaders do not denounce abortion clinic bombings.

There is no tacit acceptance of evil greater than when one puts faith in one's religion, instead of one's inner light.

Animal Mother
08-11-2012, 06:31
There's a big difference in my mind between what people do, and what the doctrine of a religion is. Apparently also a difference between what common religious concepts mean to a group and what you've decided they mean.
What non-Islamic scriptures use words like "jihad", A holy war on behalf of the faith. The Bible.
Or "fatwa", a pronouncement in the name of the faith to attack and kill others, (like the one that obligates the faithful to attack the Danish cartoonist). A fatwā (Arabic: فتوى‎; plural fatāwā Arabic: فتاوى‎) in the Islamic faith is a juristic ruling concerning Islamic law issued by an Islamic scholar. In Sunni Islam any fatwā is non-binding, whereas in Shia Islam it could be considered by an individual as binding, depending on his or her relation to the scholar. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa)
Ask the Christians of Egypt if they feel they have not been threatened if they do not convert. Are Muslims in Joplin somehow forcing Egyptian Christians to convert?
And don't put words in my mouth or twist what I have said. Show me what words of mine say I believe freedom should only be for people that agree with me. I started out by saying I DO NOT condone what was done. Should Muslims and other faiths be allowed to freely worship in the United States? Should they be protected in that worship?
Look at my avatar. I swore an oath to uphold the constitution of the United States and I have never, and will never deviate from that. Tell me if we could even be having this discussion in Saudi Arabia, Iran, or any other country whos government is an Islamic theocracy. No, but we probably also wouldn't be holding it in any other kind of theocracy or authoritarian regime either.
The teachings and doctrine of Islam have told me that they are my enemy because I won't disavow my faith to join theirs. Again, that's pretty common in most religions.
If mainstream Moslems disagree with this then let them stand up against the radicals who may have hijacked their faith. In this case, if they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. They have done exactly what you ask, yet the accusations still are made by ignorant and intentionally dishonest.
Now, you may disagree with me, but frankly, I don't give a rats *****. If that's how you feel about people who disagree with you, why should they in turn give your thoughts any consideration?
However, in this country, I will defend your right to disagree and state your disagreement within the laws.An admirable position. Does it hold true for all rights and freedoms and for all people?

Animal Mother
08-11-2012, 06:32
Why do Imams not denounce terrorism? They do.
The same reason Christian leaders do not denounce abortion clinic bombings.

There is no tacit acceptance of evil greater than when one puts faith in one's religion, instead of one's inner light.
Many do fall into this trap of trying to rationalize or justify some part of a reprehensible action, not just in situations related to religion.

Kingarthurhk
08-11-2012, 06:49
Why do Imams not denounce terrorism?

The same reason Christian leaders do not denounce abortion clinic bombings.

There is no tacit acceptance of evil greater than when one puts faith in one's religion, instead of one's inner light.

I do not support abortion clinic bombings if that makes you feel any more at ease. I also do not support convenience abortion, it is murder.

So, I cannot accept murder on either account as that is against God's character and codefied clearly in the 6th Commandment written by the very finger of God in Exodus 20.

The only inner light comes from the Holy Spirit, anything else is darkness.

Matthew 6:22, “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy,<sup class="footnote" value='[c (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-23305c)]'>[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23305c)]</sup> your whole body will be full of light. <sup class="versenum">23 </sup>But if your eyes are unhealthy,<sup class="footnote" value='[d (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-23306d)]'>[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23306d)]</sup> your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"

Psalms 119:105, "Your word is a lamp <sup class="crossreference" value='(FY (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-16004FY))'></sup> for my feet,
a light <sup class="crossreference" value='(FZ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-16004FZ))'></sup> on my path."

eracer
08-11-2012, 06:49
They do.

A very small percentage do.

Many do fall into this trap of trying to rationalize or justify some part of a reprehensible action, not just in situations related to religion.

True enough. Unfortunately, religions seem to attract more than their fair share of those who rationalize evil in the name of good.

When the discussion turns to agnostics who don't speak out against attacks on the faithful innocent, I'll point the same finger at them.

snowbird
08-11-2012, 06:49
... you don't have to like the religion of Islam...

...for now. But just wait until they get enough numbers, both through our idiotic leftist open-borders/ mass-Muslim-immigration policy and their vastly higher birthrate. To see what happens then, just look at what happens to Christians today in Muslim countries. Look what happened to the Christians in the Armenian Genocide. Guess what? Our First Amendment doesn't endorse that kind of thing.

Wake up!

Christian versus Christian is as tragic and stupid as a circular firing squad. Jesus said love one another. Fellow Christians are not the enemy.

snowbird
08-11-2012, 06:57
Do you spend a lot of time fantasizing about shooting people snowy?

Here we have Exhibit A, a textbook example of Alinskyite "Rules For Radicals" ridicule tactics. Keep mocking defenders of freedom until Marxism (or Islam. The traitor-class's goalposts seem to have shifted since 9/11) can "fundamentally transform" (i.e. trample under jackboots) America.

Kingarthurhk
08-11-2012, 06:59
...for now. But just wait until they get enough numbers, both through our idiotic leftist open-borders/ mass-Muslim-immigration policy and their vastly higher birthrate. To see what happens then, just look at what happens to Christians today in Muslim countries. Look what happened to the Christians in the Armenian Genocide. Guess what? Our First Amendment doesn't endorse that kind of thing.

Wake up!

Christian versus Christian is as tragic and stupid as a circular firing squad. Jesus said love one another. Fellow Christians are not the enemy.

Anyone versus anyone is a tragic thing. If you embrace Christ, you must also learn to embrace the difficult things as well:

Matthew 5:34-48, "“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor<sup class="footnote" value='[i (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-23278i)]'>[i (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23278i)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(AW (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23278AW))'></sup> and hate your enemy.’ <sup class="crossreference" value='(AX (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23278AX))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">44 </sup>But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AY (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23279AY))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">45 </sup>that you may be children <sup class="crossreference" value='(AZ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23280AZ))'></sup> of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. <sup class="crossreference" value='(BA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23280BA))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">46 </sup>If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? <sup class="crossreference" value='(BB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23281BB))'></sup> Are not even the tax collectors doing that? <sup class="versenum">47 </sup>And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? <sup class="versenum">48 </sup>Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Luke 6:27-36, “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AH (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25174AH))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">28 </sup>bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AI (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25175AI))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">29 </sup>If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. <sup class="versenum">30 </sup>Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AJ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25177AJ))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">31 </sup>Do to others as you would have them do to you. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AK (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25178AK))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">32 </sup>“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? <sup class="crossreference" value='(AL (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25179AL))'></sup> Even sinners love those who love them. <sup class="versenum">33 </sup>And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. <sup class="versenum">34 </sup>And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? <sup class="crossreference" value='(AM (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25181AM))'></sup> Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. <sup class="versenum">35 </sup>But love your enemies, do good to them, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AN (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25182AN))'></sup> and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children <sup class="crossreference" value='(AO (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25182AO))'></sup> of the Most High, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AP (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25182AP))'></sup> because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. <sup class="versenum">36 </sup>Be merciful, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AQ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25183AQ))'></sup> just as your Father <sup class="crossreference" value='(AR (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25183AR))'></sup> is merciful."

snowbird
08-11-2012, 07:17
Here's another example of a response that puts words in my mouth and atributes a philosophy to what I said that isn't there. So, I'm done responding to this kind of nonesense. Also, I guess you missed the part where I said "I don't give a rats *****.

I'm on Glock Talk because of my interest in firearms. I usually don't get into threads on other topics. My mistake. Back to firearms. Out.

Leftist trolls routinely put words in the mouth of patriots, in their ceaseless efforts to destroy our free society. I hope you don't let 'liberal' fascists and dhimmi Islam apologist bigots silence your voice on behalf of what's good and right.

Thanks for your service during your LEO career, but your country still needs you.

Kingarthurhk
08-11-2012, 07:27
Leftist trolls routinely put words in the mouth of patriots, in their ceaseless efforts to destroy our free society. I hope you don't let 'liberal' fascists and dhimmi Islam apologist bigots silence your voice on behalf of what's good and right.

Thanks for your service during your LEO career, but your country still needs you.

Who is a Leftist Troll exactly? Who is appologizing for Islam? Since when is not standing up for the Bill of Rights unpatriotic?

And if you claim to be Christian and ignore the words of Christ, what do you know about what is good or right?

snowbird
08-11-2012, 07:32
Anyone versus anyone is a tragic thing. If you embrace Christ, you must also learn to embrace the difficult things as well...

...such as another Armenian Genocide?

Somehow, I don't think the Jesus that said buy a sword, wants us to do that to ourselves, to our wives, and to our children.

Your quote about love your enemies simply means Christians shouldn't seek retaliation/vengeance. But the God who endorsed Nehemiah's construction workers rebuilding Jerusalem while armed, to prevent terrorists' attacks, would not forbid us self-defense.

Again, I urge you to wake up. And may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Kingarthurhk
08-11-2012, 07:46
...such as another Armenian Genocide?


Refresh my memory. Whe did we receive an American genocide? I recall a Jewish Genocide in Germany, I recall a Russian progrom of Genocide, I recall a Waldensian Genocide, I recall a Hugenot Genocide, I have even heard of Native American genocide through small pox. But, when have we from the founding of this country to present had a genral American Genocide?


Somehow, I don't think the Jesus that said buy a sword, wants us to do that to ourselves, to our wives, and to our children.

If I did not believe in the use of deadly force to defend myself or that of innocent bystandards from great bodily harm or death I would have been in the wrong profession for a very long time. If I did not believe in the principle of these things I would not own a firearm or train my wife to use them veyr proficiently. I wouldn't have a CCL and neither would she. In fact I have that same verse you are referring to engraved on the aftermarkert barrel on my Glock 20.

However, the wholesale extermination of Muslims or the burning down of their places of worship neither fits in that principle, the principle of this law of this society, or the princples as made plain by scripture and Jesus Christ.


Your quote about love your enemies simply means Christians shouldn't seek retaliation/vengeance. But the God who endorsed Nehemiah's construction workers rebuilding Jerusalem while armed, to prevent terrorists' attacks, would not forbid us self-defense.

Again, please let me know how the whosale extermination of Muslims and burning of their places of worship even remotely fit into the concept you gave?


Again, I urge you to wake up. And may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Thank you, and God Bless you as well. I know the world is full of evil, and it isn't just from your favorite hobby horse of Islam.

Ephesians 6:10-17, "<sup> </sup>Finally, be strong in the Lord <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29348M))'></sup> and in his mighty power. <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29348N))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">11 </sup>Put on the full armor of God, <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29349O))'></sup> so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29350P))'></sup> but against the rulers, against the authorities, <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29350Q))'></sup> against the powers <sup class="crossreference" value='(R (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29350R))'></sup> of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29350S))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>Therefore put on the full armor of God, <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29351T))'></sup> so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. <sup class="versenum">14 </sup>Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29352U))'></sup> with the breastplate of righteousness in place, <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29352V))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">15 </sup>and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29353W))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">16 </sup>In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29354X))'></sup> with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29354Y))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">17 </sup>Take the helmet of salvation <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29355Z))'></sup> and the sword of the Spirit, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29355AA))'></sup> which is the word of God."

snowbird
08-11-2012, 08:32
... the wholesale extermination of Muslims ...

Here is an example of what rich52us correctly denounced as "putting words in the mouth". I advocate self-defense for free Americans, including stopping all Muslim immigration, and a confused dhimmi twists this into "wholesale extermination of Muslims".:upeyes: You also claimed that your apologies for bloody Islam was merely standing up for our First Amendment.

Consider today's news on the Muslim front, and ponder the meaning of the First Amendment:

-in Marseilles, France, a restaurant owner, 64, was beaten with the buckle-end of a belt swung by a Muslim, because he refused to close his restaurant for Ramadan. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-in Texas, a 'US soldier', Naser Abdo, planned a second deadly Muslim attack on real US soldiers at Fort hood. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-the 'moderate' Muslim government in Tunisia is writing a law criminalizing "blasphemy" (speaking the truth about Islam). Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-in a shopping mall in Modena, Italy, a Muslim father publicly kicked and punched (breaking her nose) his 18 year-old daughter for refusing to wear a veil. Actually, she's lucky: if it was in private, he probably would have killed her. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11 (imagine what it is if we go all the way back to the time of the Armenian Genocide, circa 1915!) has climbed to 19,405. That's a lot of dead bodies. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

Kingarthurhk
08-11-2012, 09:06
Here is an example of what rich52us correctly denounced as "putting words in the mouth". I advocate self-defense for free Americans, including stopping all Muslim immigration, and a confused dhimmi twists this into "wholesale extermination of Muslims".:upeyes: You also claimed that your apologies for bloody Islam was merely standing up for our First Amendment.

Consider today's news on the Muslim front, and ponder the meaning of the First Amendment:

-in Marseilles, France, a restaurant owner, 64, was beaten with the buckle-end of a belt swung by a Muslim, because he refused to close his restaurant for Ramadan. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-in Texas, a 'US soldier', Naser Abdo, planned a second deadly Muslim attack on real US soldiers at Fort hood. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-the 'moderate' Muslim government in Tunisia is writing a law criminalizing "blasphemy" (speaking the truth about Islam). Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-in a shopping mall in Modena, Italy, a Muslim father publicly kicked and punched (breaking her nose) his 18 year-old daughter for refusing to wear a veil. Actually, she's lucky: if it was in private, he probably would have killed her. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11 (imagine what it is if we go all the way back to the time of the Armenian Genocide, circa 1915!) has climbed to 19,405. That's a lot of dead bodies. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

The Catholics have killed millions in the name of religion. Yet, you have no qualms with them. Why is that? Now, Atheism in the guise of Communism has killed millions, you do have a problem with that.

Also, if you want to be fair and list the military, a former Veteran murdered at least 6 Sikhs last week and shot a police officer 9 times durring the same rampage. He was not Muslim.

A couple of weeks ago, a Non-Muslim committed one of the most mass murders in a movie theater.

Last year, a crazy Non-Muslim shot a senator and committed mass murder.

Denying immigration based on religion? Given Catholicism's track record of world domination, the fact that it is a state power, wants to rule the world again as it did for 1260 years, actually did genocide whole peoples for not accepting their dogma, yet you don't appear to have a problem with Catholics immigrating, the fact that the majority of Congress, and the Supereme Court are Catholics, and hold a Government approved, attended, and funded in a State Owned Catholic Church hold "Red Mass" for the United States government every year.

Yet, not a word of complaint from you.

So, again, do I agree with Islam. Never. Do I agree with what their state supported religious extremists have done. Never.

Would I want to bar someone from immigrating based on their religion, I do not.

So, if you want to be worried, look no farther than your Catholic Government and his long long sordid history.

But, as I had said previously, I support their right of First Amendment Freedoms as I do all religions. I don't care if I find their doctrines distasteful, whoever they might be, but in any manner I would attempt to diminish their freedom, it only diminishes my own.

rich52us
08-11-2012, 09:25
Here is an example of what rich52us correctly denounced as "putting words in the mouth". I advocate self-defense for free Americans, including stopping all Muslim immigration, and a confused dhimmi twists this into "wholesale extermination of Muslims".:upeyes: You also claimed that your apologies for bloody Islam was merely standing up for our First Amendment.

Consider today's news on the Muslim front, and ponder the meaning of the First Amendment:

-in Marseilles, France, a restaurant owner, 64, was beaten with the buckle-end of a belt swung by a Muslim, because he refused to close his restaurant for Ramadan. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-in Texas, a 'US soldier', Naser Abdo, planned a second deadly Muslim attack on real US soldiers at Fort hood. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-the 'moderate' Muslim government in Tunisia is writing a law criminalizing "blasphemy" (speaking the truth about Islam). Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-in a shopping mall in Modena, Italy, a Muslim father publicly kicked and punched (breaking her nose) his 18 year-old daughter for refusing to wear a veil. Actually, she's lucky: if it was in private, he probably would have killed her. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

-today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11 (imagine what it is if we go all the way back to the time of the Armenian Genocide, circa 1915!) has climbed to 19,405. That's a lot of dead bodies. Is your First Amendment okay with this? Mine isn't.

PM sent

snowbird
08-11-2012, 10:09
I still believe in the First Amendment, no matter how vile I perceive ...(Japanese Imperialism since Pearl Harbor, or German Nazism with its concentration camps and genocide)... Because, in granting them freedom of faith, you insure it for yourself in the future.

If we pick and choose who gets to have freedom in this country, it ceases to be a free country.

Put the hate down, it only hurts yourself.

Fixed it for you, to help you understand how Islam is as much a totalitarian political tyranny as it is a 'religion'. Imagine you are back in late 1941, soon after the attack on Pearl Harbor, then read your words above again and think how much (or how little) sense they make. Islam is no more a genuine faith than is Japanese Imperialism, German Nazism, or Godless Communism.

Would you be equally vocal in support of building more Nazi beerhalls (like mosques) in our homeland for the propagation of their anti-Semitic hate? (Muslim anti-Semitic hate mirrors that of the Nazis). Would you be trying your best to make a case that the Bible requires Americans to go volunteer as slave construction workers building a bridge on the River Kwai? Would you favor continued large-scale immigration of Japanese and Germans at such a time? And that's assuming that our society had a low birthrate while theirs was extremely high, to be a valid comparison with today's Muslim colonization, and takeover, of our land. It's also assuming a huge enemy-sympathizing Fifth Column already existing within our open-borders (which are more open today than in 1941, I believe), as today's Leftist traitors are, continually promoting enemy culture at the same time as attacking our own.

Can you begin to see your error?

Kingarthurhk
08-11-2012, 10:59
Fixed it for you, to help you understand how Islam is as much a totalitarian political tyranny as it is a 'religion'. Imagine you are back in late 1941, soon after the attack on Pearl Harbor, then read your words above again and think how much (or how little) sense they make. Islam is no more a genuine faith than is Japanese Imperialism, German Nazism, or Godless Communism.

Would you be equally vocal in support of building more Nazi beerhalls (like mosques) in our homeland for the propagation of their anti-Semitic hate? (Muslim anti-Semitic hate mirrors that of the Nazis). Would you be trying your best to make a case that the Bible requires Americans to go volunteer as slave construction workers building a bridge on the River Kwai? Would you favor continued large-scale immigration of Japanese and Germans at such a time? And that's assuming that our society had a low birthrate while theirs was extremely high, to be a valid comparison with today's Muslim colonization, and takeover, of our land. It's also assuming a huge enemy-sympathizing Fifth Column already existing within our open-borders (which are more open today than in 1941, I believe), as today's Leftist traitors are, continually promoting enemy culture at the same time as attacking our own.

Can you begin to see your error?

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/620377/620377,1313117075,4/stock-vector-wordplay-illustration-of-person-talking-to-a-brick-wall-82670992.jpg

Animal Mother
08-11-2012, 17:10
Here we have Exhibit A, a textbook example of Alinskyite "Rules For Radicals" ridicule tactics. Keep mocking defenders of freedom until Marxism (or Islam. The traitor-class's goalposts seem to have shifted since 9/11) can "fundamentally transform" (i.e. trample under jackboots) America. I notice that nowhere in your crazed rant did you actually answer the question. If we want to talk about tactics, your McCarthyite tactics of launching absurd ad hom attacks against anyone who dares disagree with you while freely lying when you feel it will support your position, wrong though it may be, has a long and very undistinguished history.

snowbird
08-12-2012, 06:14
I notice that nowhere in your crazed rant did you actually deny that you Leftists have been and remain traitors against America. If we want to talk about tactics, you people smeared patriot Sen. Joe McCarthy with tactics of launching absurd ad hom attacks against anyone who dared disagree with you while freely lying when you felt it would support your position, wrong though it was and still is, having a long and very undistinguished history.

Documents released after the fall of your beloved Soviet Union proved that McCarthy was right, and that the disloyal Leftists who slandered him so much were liars.

Fast forward from the Korean War era to the Vietnam War, and we see Leftist traitors slandering members of our brave military as "baby killers". 'Hanoi Jane' actually went to the enemy side and looked down the sights of a communist anti-aircraft gun, allegedly aimed at a USAF plane.

And now, while we are under jihad attack from totalitarian Islam, Leftist traitors pass along enemy propaganda routinely, while shilling for the 'civil rights' of sharia supremacists. Just 2 days ago, in Jolo, Philippines, your side had a 'great victory'; a Christian man was gunned down by Abu Sayyaf (Muslim) terrorists on his way home from church. Aren't you proud of yourself for upholding such a 'brave' Christophobic ideology?

Today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11 has ratcheted up to 19,413. Does all that innocent blood on your hands, from your complicity defending Islam, send a shiver up your leg?

Animal Mother
08-12-2012, 07:16
I notice that nowhere in your crazed rant did you actually deny that you Leftists have been and remain traitors against America. Now you're resorting to stealing my words. Sad.
If we want to talk about tactics, you people smeared patriot Sen. Joe McCarthy with tactics of launching absurd ad hom attacks against anyone who dared disagree with you while freely lying when you felt it would support your position, wrong though it was and still is, having a long and very undistinguished history. How many people, out of all those accused of being communists by McCarthy and the HUAC hearings, were revealed to actually be communist agents by later revelations?
Documents released after the fall of your beloved Soviet Union proved that McCarthy was right, and that the disloyal Leftists who slandered him so much were liars. Who, specifically, slandered McCarthy?
Fast forward from the Korean War era to the Vietnam War, and we see Leftist traitors slandering members of our brave military as "baby killers". 'Hanoi Jane' actually went to the enemy side and looked down the sights of a communist anti-aircraft gun, allegedly aimed at a USAF plane.

And now, while we are under jihad attack from totalitarian Islam, Leftist traitors pass along enemy propaganda routinely, while shilling for the 'civil rights' of sharia supremacists. Just 2 days ago, in Jolo, Philippines, your side had a 'great victory'; a Christian man was gunned down by Abu Sayyaf (Muslim) terrorists on his way home from church. Aren't you proud of yourself for upholding such a 'brave' Christophobic ideology?

Today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11 has ratcheted up to 19,413. Does all that innocent blood on your hands, from your complicity defending Islam, send a shiver up your leg? As you now return to ranting, I can't help but notice that you still haven't addressed the question you were originally asked. You try to assign positions to those you dislike despite a complete lack of any evidence that they may hold such positions. Where have I, or anyone else who opposes your hate filled screeds, either endorsed or even justified outright murder by terrorists? Have you simply reached the point that you have absolutely no interest in truth or accuracy when the reality is in opposition to what you want to be true?

Kingarthurhk
08-12-2012, 07:26
I notice that nowhere in your crazed rant did you actually deny that you Leftists have been and remain traitors against America. If we want to talk about tactics, you people smeared patriot Sen. Joe McCarthy with tactics of launching absurd ad hom attacks against anyone who dared disagree with you while freely lying when you felt it would support your position, wrong though it was and still is, having a long and very undistinguished history.

Documents released after the fall of your beloved Soviet Union proved that McCarthy was right, and that the disloyal Leftists who slandered him so much were liars.

Fast forward from the Korean War era to the Vietnam War, and we see Leftist traitors slandering members of our brave military as "baby killers". 'Hanoi Jane' actually went to the enemy side and looked down the sights of a communist anti-aircraft gun, allegedly aimed at a USAF plane.

And now, while we are under jihad attack from totalitarian Islam, Leftist traitors pass along enemy propaganda routinely, while shilling for the 'civil rights' of sharia supremacists. Just 2 days ago, in Jolo, Philippines, your side had a 'great victory'; a Christian man was gunned down by Abu Sayyaf (Muslim) terrorists on his way home from church. Aren't you proud of yourself for upholding such a 'brave' Christophobic ideology?

Today's total of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11 has ratcheted up to 19,413. Does all that innocent blood on your hands, from your complicity defending Islam, send a shiver up your leg?

Yet, this is acceptable to you, without complaint?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_heresy#Catholic_response_to_heresy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_burned_as_heretics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe_(Middle_Ages)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Protestantism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII_and_the_Holocaust

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Mass

You have all of about 2 Muslims in Congress compared to:

http://www.pewforum.org/Government/Faith-on-the-Hill--The-Religious-Composition-of-the-112th-Congress.aspx

Your supreme court:

Not a single Muslim there:

http://www.factmonster.com/us/supreme-court/supreme-court-members.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/04/6-supreme-court-justices-_n_309173.html

I honestly don't think Shahira law is around the corner with this crowd.

Though you will find a very similar perspective:



There is some confusion in the public <!--3ref=u66=10321a.htm-->mind<!--k02--> about the meaning of the union of <!--k23-->Church and State. The <!--3ref=u66=05543b.htm-->essential<!--k02--> idea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07630a.htm) of such union is a <!--3ref=u66=04211a.htm-->condition<!--k02--> of affairs where a State recognizes its <!--3ref=u44=x84242.htm-->natural<!--k08--> and supernatural (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14336b.htm) relation to the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm), professes the <!--2ref=u76=05752c.htm-->Faith<!--k01-->, and practises the <!--3ref=u44=x86615.htm-->worship<!--k08--> of the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm), protects it, enacts no laws (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09053a.htm) to its hurt, while, in case of <!--2ref=u66=10733a.htm-->necessity<!--k01--> and at its instance taking all <!--3ref=u44=x83547.htm-->just<!--k03--> and requisite civil measures to forward the Divinely appointed purpose of the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm)--in so far as all these make for the <!--3ref=u44=xxyyyk.htm-->State's<!--k06--> own <!--3ref=u66=05543b.htm-->essential<!--k08--> purpose, the temporal happiness (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07131b.htm) of its citizens. That this is in principle the normal and <!--3ref=u44=xxyyyk.htm-->ethically<!--k06--> proper <!--3ref=u66=04211a.htm-->condition<!--k04--> for a truly Catholic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) State should be evident from the <!--3ref=u44=x85379.htm-->religious<!--k04--> obligations (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11189a.htm) of the Catholic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) State as above declared. That in practice it has in the past sometimes worked evil (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm) to both <!--k23-->Church and State, is an <!--3ref=u66=01096c.htm-->accidental<!--k02--> effect consequent upon the frailty and <!--3ref=u44=x84650.htm-->passion<!--k03--> of the <!--3ref=u66=09580c.htm-->human<!--k02--> instruments then ruling in <!--3ref=u63=03744a.htm-->Church<!--k04-->, or in State, or in both. As a partial attempt at security against such evil (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm) consequences, the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) has for centuries established concordats (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04196a.htm) with Catholic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) States; but even these have not always <!--2ref=u76=13407a.htm-->saved<!--k01--> the situation. For concordats (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04196a.htm), like all other agreements, however firm in principle, are in practice only as strong as the <!--3ref=u44=xxyyyk.htm-->conscientiousness<!--k03--> of those whose duty (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05215a.htm) it is to observe them. The <!--3ref=u44=xxyyyk.htm-->conscienceless<!--k03--> can destroy them at pleasure. Between the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) and a <!--3ref=u94=11388a.htm-->non-Christian<!--k02--> or a Christian (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm), but non-Catholic, State a <!--3ref=u66=04211a.htm-->condition<!--k04--> of separation, as meaning a <!--3ref=u66=04211a.htm-->condition<!--k04--> of <!--3ref=u44=xxyyyk.htm-->indifference<!--k03--> of the State towards the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm), is to be expected, as the foundation of the specific obligations (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11189a.htm) involved in union are wanting. Such a separation for a Catholic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) State would be criminal, as ignoring the <!--3ref=u44=x85567.htm-->sacred<!--k03--> obligations (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11189a.htm) of the State.<!--BIBLE-SUMMA-FATHERS--><!--k93-->For a State once Catholic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) and in union with the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) to declare a separation on the ground that it has ceased to be Catholic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) is an <!--3ref=u44=xxyyyk.htm-->action<!--k08--> which as a matter of objective <!--3ref=u73=13055c.htm-->right<!--k02--> has no standing; for in objective truth (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15073a.htm) the duty (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05215a.htm) of the people would be to regain their lost faith (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm), if they had really lost it, or to live up to it if in reality it were not lost. But on the supposition that the <!--3ref=u66=05543b.htm-->essential<!--k02--> constituency of a State has been transformed from Catholics (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm) to those who, not by hypocritical (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07610a.htm) pretence, but in the fulness of good faith (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06642a.htm), are not Catholics (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm)--a <!--3ref=u66=04211a.htm-->condition<!--k02--> easier of supposition than of realization--the State through such mistaken conscience (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04268a.htm) might seek for separation without subjective fault, provided the separation were effected without the summary dissolution of <!--3ref=u44=xxyyyk.htm-->existing<!--k03--> <!--2ref=u73=04332a.htm-->contracts<!--k01-->, without the violation of vested rights (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13055c.htm) of the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) or its members. It may be noted in passing that in the recent instances of separation in France (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06166a.htm) and Portugal (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12297a.htm), i.e., the breaking up of an <!--3ref=u44=xxyyyk.htm-->existing<!--k08--> <!--3ref=u66=04211a.htm-->condition<!--k04--> of union between <!--k23-->Church and State, the separation has been effected where the bulk of the people is still Catholic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm), has been conducted in violation of rights (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13055c.htm) and <!--3ref=u73=04332a.htm-->contracts<!--k07--> both <!--3ref=u44=x84242.htm-->natural<!--k08--> and positive, and has resulted, as it was aimed to do, in an attempt at complete subsection of the Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm) and of all civil subjects in the matters of <!--3ref=u44=x85324.htm-->religion<!--k04--> to the tyranny of administrations which scoff at all <!--3ref=u44=x85324.htm-->religion<!--k04-->. That in States whose personality (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11727b.htm) is constitutionally made up of every complexion of <!--3ref=u44=x85379.htm-->religious<!--k04--> faith (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm), much of it in its diversity sincere, there should be a governmental <!--3ref=u44=xxyyyk.htm-->abstention<!--k03--> from any specific denominational <!--3ref=u44=x86615.htm-->worship<!--k08--> or profession of belief (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm), and a general protection and encouragement of the <!--3ref=u66=07762a.htm-->individual<!--k02--> in the practice of <!--3ref=u44=x85324.htm-->religion<!--k04--> according to his own <!--3ref=u44=x85379.htm-->religious<!--k04--> principles within the limits of the Natural Law (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09076a.htm), or of a general <!--2ref=u79=01094b.htm-->acceptance<!--k01--> of Christianity (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm), seems a practical <!--3ref=u66=10733a.htm-->necessity<!--k02--> of evil (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm) times, when <!--3ref=u44=x86371.htm-->unity<!--k03--> of faith (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm) is so widely lacking, and a modus vivendi which, if sincerely carried out, seems to work as little harm to objective <!--3ref=u73=13055c.htm-->right<!--k04--> as can be expected in a <!--3ref=u66=04211a.htm-->condition<!--k04--> of <!--3ref=u76=04268a.htm-->consciences<!--k03--> sincerely differing in the <!--3ref=u66=10053b.htm-->matter<!--k02--> of <!--3ref=u73=13055c.htm-->right<!--k04--> established by the Divine Positive <!--3ref=u44=x67319.htm-->Law<!--k04-->.

<!--BIBLE-SUMMA-FATHERS-->http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14250c.htm

So, I think your obsession with Islam pales in comparison with these things.

I think this history well outweights 19,000 of your incidents.

And yet, you don't see me saying that Catholics shouldn't have First Amenment freedoms and should never be allowed to immigrate to the United States.

snowbird
08-12-2012, 08:09
So, I think your obsession with Islam pales in comparison with these things.



Garcia Carcel estimates that the Spanish Inquisition, in all its history, processed about 150,000 people. Trials between 1560 and 1730 (notice this was a long, long time ago, not today in the 21st century) resulted in about 2% executions. So there may have been 3,000 or so put to death, long ago.

OTOH, William Monter estimates 1,000 executions between 1530 and 1630, with 250 more between 1630 and 1730. So, there may have been 1,250 or so put to death, long ago. In any case, there is nothing like this happening today, from Christians.

But more people are killed by Islamists each year, now, in the 21st century, than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition, so long ago. On 9/11, Muslims murdered about the same number of innocent American civilians in 2 hours as did the Spanish Inquisition in three and a half centuries.

So I think your bigoted obsession with Roman Catholicism pales in comparison with the jihad that Islam is waging against us, both Protestant and Catholic, in the here and now.

Ben Franklin said that if we don't hang together, we shall assuredly all hang separately.

Wake up.

snowbird
08-12-2012, 08:21
...How many people, out of all those accused of being communists by McCarthy and the HUAC hearings, were revealed to actually be communist agents by later revelations?...
As you now return to ranting...your hate filled screeds...

Lies, propaganda...blah, blah, blah...more lies.

Is America really all that bad? Is Islam really all that good? Your hatred of American Christianity is eating you up. The Left's "ultimate moral authority", Cindy Sheehan, said she'd rather live under Hugo Chavez than George W. Bush.

So why don't you?

Kingarthurhk
08-12-2012, 08:28
Garcia Carcel estimates that the Spanish Inquisition, in all its history, processed about 150,000 people. Trials between 1560 and 1730 (notice this was a long, long time ago, not today in the 21st century) resulted in about 2% executions. So there may have been 3,000 or so put to death, long ago.

OTOH, William Monter estimates 1,000 executions between 1530 and 1630, with 250 more between 1630 and 1730. So, there may have been 1,250 or so put to death, long ago. In any case, there is nothing like this happening today, from Christians.

But more people are killed by Islamists each year, now, in the 21st century, than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition, so long ago. On 9/11, Muslims murdered about the same number of innocent American civilians in 2 hours as did the Spanish Inquisition in three and a half centuries.

So I think your bigoted obsession with Roman Catholicism pales in comparison with the jihad that Islam is waging against us, both Protestant and Catholic, in the here and now.

Ben Franklin said that if we don't hang together, we shall assuredly all hang separately.

Wake up.

So, 1260 years of the things you declare Islam is doing, you give it a pass and call me a biggot. Yet, you are the biggest biggot I think I currently know.

You declare that people should be denied based on religion. I have said no such thing. I have said the opposite.

I am simply pointing out your obsession and animas has narrowed your perspective to a pin point and you are unable to see the forest from the trees.

So, keep on banging your drum, I no longer care.

Woofie
08-12-2012, 09:14
Yet, this is acceptable to you, without complaint?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_heresy#Catholic_response_to_heresy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_burned_as_heretics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe_(Middle_Ages)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Protestantism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII_and_the_Holocaust

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Mass

You have all of about 2 Muslims in Congress compared to:

http://www.pewforum.org/Government/Faith-on-the-Hill--The-Religious-Composition-of-the-112th-Congress.aspx

Your supreme court:

Not a single Muslim there:

http://www.factmonster.com/us/supreme-court/supreme-court-members.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/04/6-supreme-court-justices-_n_309173.html

I honestly don't think Shahira law is around the corner with this crowd.

Though you will find a very similar perspective:



<!--BIBLE-SUMMA-FATHERS-->http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14250c.htm

So, I think your obsession with Islam pales in comparison with these things.

I think this history well outweights 19,000 of your incidents.

And yet, you don't see me saying that Catholics shouldn't have First Amenment freedoms and should never be allowed to immigrate to the United States.

The only reason the Christian churches ended their brutalities (and they all did it until modern times) is that governments began to appear that reigned in on church authority and started to have some basic respect for human rights.

You'll notice that countries who don't do both of those things still have problems with religious violence, the countries with governments powerful or willing enough to enforce the rule of law and who respect human rights do not have such problems.

I'll give a pass to religions and denominations originally founded under these governments. I've never heard of any SDA, Mormon, or Scientology discrimination/terror.

Animal Mother
08-12-2012, 16:29
Lies, propaganda...blah, blah, blah...more lies. It's odd, you keep accusing others of lies, yet when asked direct questions you fail to answer. When challenged to defend your claims, you fail to do so. It's almost as if you knew that you were spouting falsehoods and hoped to cover it up by continuing to spew forth more hate until everyone just accepts your spurious claims based solely on volume.
Is America really all that bad? Is Islam really all that good? Your hatred of American Christianity is eating you up. The Left's "ultimate moral authority", Cindy Sheehan, said she'd rather live under Hugo Chavez than George W. Bush.

So why don't you? Again, you assign your opponents positions they don't hold in the vain hope of not having to address your failures. I'm the one defending America, in both practice and concept, while you're arguing to abandon all that defines the nation in pursuit of your hatred of people who are different from you.

steveksux
08-12-2012, 17:23
Here we have Exhibit A, a textbook example of Alinskyite "Rules For Radicals" ridicule tactics. Keep mocking defenders of freedom until Marxism (or Islam. The traitor-class's goalposts seem to have shifted since 9/11) can "fundamentally transform" (i.e. trample under jackboots) America.:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

"Defender of freedom" The one suggesting the denial of first amendment rights of Muslims.

Generally liars are much more accomplished .

Randy

snowbird
08-12-2012, 20:13
As the Nazis rose to power in the 1930s, many people grossly underestimated the peril.

On Friday (Islam's holy day of the week), during this year's Ramadan (Islam's holy month of the year), an Afghan civilian emplyee shot dead 3 coalition soldiers, the same day that 3 others were killed by an Afghan policeman.

Standing by now for kingarthurhk to try to convince us these Afghans were Catholics, and for steveksux and AM to dictate how the Constitution gives them the right to kill American soldiers because that's their religion.

Call me old-fashioned, but I still stick up for freedom, starting with the right of Americans to keep on breathing regardless of what the Koran (and the dhimmis who support it) says.

Animal Mother
08-12-2012, 21:36
As the Nazis rose to power in the 1930s, many people grossly underestimated the peril.

On Friday (Islam's holy day of the week), during this year's Ramadan (Islam's holy month of the year), an Afghan civilian emplyee shot dead 3 coalition soldiers, the same day that 3 others were killed by an Afghan policeman.

Standing by now for kingarthurhk to try to convince us these Afghans were Catholics, and for steveksux and AM to dictate how the Constitution gives them the right to kill American soldiers because that's their religion. Have kingarthurhk, steveksux, or I ever taken a position that terrorism is acceptable, that the Constitution gives anyone the right to kill anyone else, or that soldiers should not be allowed to defend themselves? If so, please link to the post. Otherwise, we'll be forced to conclude that this is just another example of you lying. Something you claim to oppose, which also would make you a hypocrite I suppose.
Call me old-fashioned, but I still stick up for freedom, No, you don't. You actively oppose freedom for anyone who isn't the same and doesn't think the same as you do.
starting with the right of Americans to keep on breathing regardless of what the Koran (and the dhimmis who support it) says.Just to review. Yet again, you haven't answered any of the questions you were asked. You've misrepresented not only the positions of others, but your own. Finally, when necessary, you've simply been dishonest. Let me ask another question you can ignore. Do American Muslims share those same rights you claim to defend?

snowbird
08-13-2012, 08:15
Do American Muslims share those same rights you claim to defend?

No.

Islam is an enemy ideology, akin to Nazism or communism in its incompatiblity with freedom as outlined in our
Constitution. Individual Muslims may be decent people. But even they are TIME BOMBS. As long as their so-called "religion" (actually a fascist form of government) is based on the Koran and the example of Mohammed, a murderous, pedophile warlord, with doctrines of forced conversion, there is always the possibility, even after generations of peaceful behavior (which they have YET to exhibit!), some zealots will take Koranic imperatives seriously, and restart Islamic murdering. We should stop all Muslim immigration now, to forestall future civil war and genocide. Even a cursory look at history shows Islam to be rife with this sort of evil behavior.

snowbird
08-13-2012, 08:33
Have kingarthurhk, steveksux, or I ever taken a position that terrorism is acceptable, that the Constitution gives anyone the right to kill anyone else, or that soldiers should not be allowed to defend themselves? If so, please link to the post. Otherwise, we'll be forced to conclude that this is just another example of you lying.

Kingarthurhk, steveksux, and you are basically Apostles of Political Correctness. As such, it is you who are the liars. PC is so radically tolerant, it gets into myth-making. Some examples of Politically Correct myths, or lies:
-Islam is a religion (it's actually a fascist form of government)
-Islam is peaceful and tolerant (look at the Hindu Holocaust, the Armenian Genocide, 9/11,etc)
-we can negotiate with these people (they practice takiyya as well as jihad)
-the Bible and the Koran are equally violent (pure rot)
-only a tiny minority of Muslims support violent jihad (more rot)
-Islam respects and honors women (honor killing isn't the same as honoring)
-the Crusades were unprovoked (they happened after centuries of Islamic aggression)
-the Crusades were to convert Muslims by force (no they weren't)
-the Crusades were bloodier than Islamic jihads (no they weren't)
-the problem the world faces today is religious fundamentalism (no, the problem is Islamic jihad, and leftist appeasement of same)

Animal Mother
08-13-2012, 08:41
Kingarthurhk, steveksux, and you are basically Apostles of Political Correctness. More of the trying to redefine your opponents? It's getting tired.
As such, it is you who are the liars. Nope, still you, as you so ably demonstrate in your little list below.
PC is so radically tolerant, it gets into myth-making. Some examples of Politically Correct myths, or lies:
-Islam is a religion (it's actually a fascist form of government) No, it's a religion. Ask any sane person.
-Islam is peaceful and tolerant (look at the Hindu Holocaust, the Armenian Genocide, 9/11,etc) Which of the people you've listed has called Islam either peaceful or tolerant?
-we can negotiate with these people (they practice takiyya as well as jihad) Your misrepresentation of the concepts of takiyya and jihad have been covered repeatedly in the past. Suffice it to say that the only person lying in this discussion so far is you.
-the Bible and the Koran are equally violent (pure rot) Another claim of yours that is completely at odds with the facts.
-only a tiny minority of Muslims support violent jihad (more rot) And another.
-Islam respects and honors women (honor killing isn't the same as honoring)
-the Crusades were unprovoked (they happened after centuries of Islamic aggression)
-the Crusades were to convert Muslims by force (no they weren't) Who here has claimed any of these things?
-the Crusades were bloodier than Islamic jihads (no they weren't) Bloodier? No. Equally? Yes.
-the problem the world faces today is religious fundamentalism (no, the problem is Islamic jihad, and leftist appeasement of same) How about you try answering some of the questions which have been asked of you? Has it occurred to you that at least some of the problems the world faces are the result of unreasoning hatred of people who are different and refusal to consider others as worthy of equal rights?

4TS&W
08-13-2012, 09:04
It seems like Muslims are all really well behaved, until they gain a big enough percentage of the population, at which point they institute total Muslim control, at which point everyone else gets killed or converted, and absolutely oppressed.

snowbird
08-13-2012, 09:48
...unreasoning hatred of people who are different and refusal to consider others as worthy of equal rights?

Where in Islam are 'people who are different', such as Jews, Christians, atheists, Hindus, etc, tolerated? Isn't it "unreasoning hatred" when the Koran says all of these unbelievers are equal to s***? That's what it says on their list of 'unclean things', which includes both infidels and feces. Where are the churches and Bibles in Saudi Arabia? Why are Christians being slaughtered wholesale in Nigeria, Pakistan, the Philippines, etc? Why are Buddhists being slaughtered in Thailand?

How does the Armenian Genocide demonstrate Islamic willingness to consider others as worthy of equal rights?

Your willful blindness to Islam's massive track record of bloodshed, extreme intolerance, misogyny, pedophilia, cruel tyranny, and unending warfare, combined with your insistence to let them keep immigrating here in strength, constitutes treason.

You sir, are a liar and a traitor.

Woofie
08-13-2012, 12:15
No.

Islam is an enemy ideology, akin to Nazism or communism in its incompatiblity with freedom as outlined in our
Constitution. Individual Muslims may be decent people. But even they are TIME BOMBS. As long as their so-called "religion" (actually a fascist form of government) is based on the Koran and the example of Mohammed, a murderous, pedophile warlord, with doctrines of forced conversion, there is always the possibility, even after generations of peaceful behavior (which they have YET to exhibit!), some zealots will take Koranic imperatives seriously, and restart Islamic murdering. We should stop all Muslim immigration now, to forestall future civil war and genocide. Even a cursory look at history shows Islam to be rife with this sort of evil behavior.

Is this evidence that Christianity is not compatible with the Constitution or that snowbird is not compatible with it?

High-Gear
08-13-2012, 18:32
Where in Islam are 'people who are different', such as Jews, Christians, atheists, Hindus, etc, tolerated? Isn't it "unreasoning hatred" when the Koran says all of these unbelievers are equal to s***? That's what it says on their list of 'unclean things', which includes both infidels and feces. Where are the churches and Bibles in Saudi Arabia? Why are Christians being slaughtered wholesale in Nigeria, Pakistan, the Philippines, etc? Why are Buddhists being slaughtered in Thailand?

How does the Armenian Genocide demonstrate Islamic willingness to consider others as worthy of equal rights?

Your willful blindness to Islam's massive track record of bloodshed, extreme intolerance, misogyny, pedophilia, cruel tyranny, and unending warfare, combined with your insistence to let them keep immigrating here in strength, constitutes treason.

You sir, are a liar and a traitor.

Pot, this is the kettle calling you black! The bible commands you to kill those who serve different gods!

Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Animal Mother
08-13-2012, 21:31
No. A direct answer to a question and admission that you are both a bigot and hold the rights guaranteed by the Constitution to be unimportant. Good job snowy.
Islam is an enemy ideology, akin to Nazism or communism in its incompatiblity with freedom as outlined in our
Constitution. Individual Muslims may be decent people. But even they are TIME BOMBS. As long as their so-called "religion" (actually a fascist form of government) is based on the Koran and the example of Mohammed, a murderous, pedophile warlord, with doctrines of forced conversion, there is always the possibility, even after generations of peaceful behavior (which they have YET to exhibit!), some zealots will take Koranic imperatives seriously, and restart Islamic murdering. We should stop all Muslim immigration now, to forestall future civil war and genocide. Even a cursory look at history shows Islam to be rife with this sort of evil behavior. Got it, Islam is like any other religion, you just happen to dislike it and therefore believe it should be eliminated. Sounds like bigotry to me.

Animal Mother
08-13-2012, 21:37
You sir, are a liar and a traitor. I challenge you to quote one post, from anywhere on this forum, where I've either lied or expressed traitorous thoughts. Something akin to calling for American citizens to be deprived of their civil rights based on their religion would be a possible example. Except of course, you're the one doing that, not me.

If you can't produce such a post, I think it will be clear to all who the dishonest one is in this discussion.

Woofie
08-13-2012, 22:52
If you can't produce such a post, I think it will be clear to all who the dishonest one is in this discussion.

It's been clear. For a long time. To everyone.

I occasionally wonder if this is how snowbird is in real life or if he does this for kicks and giggles.

snowbird
08-15-2012, 06:55
... the dishonest one is in this discussion.

...would be a certain "mother" preaching anger, hate, and division, like a certain president from Chicago. Is that where you're from? I mean, Phoenix is associated with freedom. Sheriff Joe Arpaio who courageously investigated our Muslim-in-Chief's fake birth certificate. And the state of Arizona, which is being sued by Hussein's regime in Washington because they tried to actually enforce our sovereign borders.

snowbird
08-15-2012, 06:56
It's been clear. For a long time. To everyone.

I occasionally wonder if this is how snowbird is in real life or if he does this for kicks and giggles.

"Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you...shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake..."

Animal Mother
08-15-2012, 10:41
...would be a certain "mother" preaching anger, hate, and division, like a certain president from Chicago. Is that where you're from? I mean, Phoenix is associated with freedom. Sheriff Joe Arpaio who courageously investigated our Muslim-in-Chief's fake birth certificate. And the state of Arizona, which is being sued by Hussein's regime in Washington because they tried to actually enforce our sovereign borders. You won't be producing those posts then? Imagine my shock.

Kingarthurhk
08-15-2012, 16:37
"Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you...shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake..."

If you were preaching Christ, I could sympathize with you. But, I don't see it.

Woofie
08-16-2012, 08:54
"Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you...shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake..."

I don't hate you. I feel sorry for you for having such paranoia.

Walt_NC
08-17-2012, 13:18
Getting back on topic, I'd like to see the local Christian churches open their doors to their Muslim neighbors and allow them the use of their facilities so that that the Muslims had a place to meet for the Iftar.

High-Gear
08-17-2012, 13:38
Getting back on topic, I'd like to see the local Christian churches open their doors to their Muslim neighbors and allow them the use of their facilities so that that the Muslims had a place to meet for the Iftar.

I agree! My wife has a friend who attends a church across the street from a local mosque. Both groups have a problem with a lack of parking space. The mosque requested a mutual partnership, allowing their members to use the church's parking lot on Fridays, and the church to use their lot on Sundays as overflow parking. The idea seemed reasonable, but some members of the christian church balked at the idea, and the church declined any compromise. This is second hand information mind you, but if true I think it was in poor form.

Kingarthurhk
08-17-2012, 17:09
I agree! My wife has a friend who attends a church across the street from a local mosque. Both groups have a problem with a lack of parking space. The mosque requested a mutual partnership, allowing their members to use the church's parking lot on Fridays, and the church to use their lot on Sundays as overflow parking. The idea seemed reasonable, but some members of the christian church balked at the idea, and the church declined any compromise. This is second hand information mind you, but if true I think it was in poor form.

Actually, I think the shared parking lot is a good idea. That way the Christian folks can show the Islamic folks a good example of what Jesus would do.

Cavalry Doc
08-18-2012, 09:50
Getting back on topic, I'd like to see the local Christian churches open their doors to their Muslim neighbors and allow them the use of their facilities so that that the Muslims had a place to meet for the Iftar.

Odd, I had always thought mosques were off limits to infidels.

High-Gear
08-18-2012, 10:52
Odd, I had always thought mosques were off limits to infidels.

Not true. I was welcome to participate in an Iftar (evening meal during the month of Ramadan), and sit in and observe their prayer. They were very welcoming, and friendly people.

Walt_NC
08-18-2012, 13:52
Odd, I had always thought mosques were off limits to infidels.

They're not.

Edit: I take that back as I'm sure that somewhere in this great big world, there is a mosque that will only allow entry to Muslims. But I haven't seen that outside of Ramadi. Also, I believe some sections of the Kaba are closed to non-Muslims. That being said, most mosques aren't closed to non-Muslims.

snowbird
08-18-2012, 18:30
They (Muslims) were very welcoming, and friendly people.

Did you forget already that their holy book okays takiyya? In addition to murdering infidels?

Were the ones who carried out 9/11 friendly?

Were the ones who danced in the streets after they heard the news 'friendly'?

You might have a hard time selling your "Muslims are friendly" bottle of colored water to coalition personnel, including US military, serving in Afghanistan. There have been 31 "green-on-blue" (Muslim on non-Muslim) attacks so far this year, resulting in 39 deaths of our guys. US Marine General John Allen has now ordered all our troops regardless of their tasks, to carry loaded weapons...

...but Muslims are really, really friendly and trustworthy:upeyes:

Walt_NC
08-18-2012, 20:48
Did you forget already that their holy book okays takiyya? In addition to murdering infidels....

And they're all teaming up with the Illuminati and the international homosexual underground and they're coming to get you! Booga booga booga!

snowbird
08-19-2012, 11:21
Booga booga booga!

I'll take that as a, "Yes, I did forget already that their holy book okays takiyya, in addition to murdering infidels".

There's a word for that.

Kingarthurhk
08-19-2012, 12:31
I'll take that as a, "Yes, I did forget already that their holy book okays takiyya, in addition to murdering infidels".

There's a word for that.

I think you are possibly confusing religions. What you are describing is more reminiscient of the Thugee Cult of Kali in India. Ironically, that is where we get the term "Thug". The Thugee would cultivate a friendship with a stranger in order to ritualistically strangle them and offer them before the goddess Kali. Not a very nice deity, by-the-way. She has a rather demonic face, black as midnight, and wears a skirt of human bones.