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Gonzoso
08-06-2012, 17:05
Is anyone else offended when they see their local gas station selling crack pipes?

I've lived in my rural community all my life. Over the years people from other lands have purchased all the mom and pop gas stations and sell whatever they can. When they were legal they sold bath salts, and they sell "glass roses" which are merely glass tubes for smoking crack.

The old store owners would not sell such things.

Call me old fashioned but I don't like crackheads, and I feel as a society we should discourage its use. I feel selling paraphernalia to smoke crack is showing people that there is some level of acceptance of this behavior.

When I went to the gas station yesterday I saw them selling these glass roses and I calmly but sternly expressed my opinion on the matter, after making sure the owner knew what they were for. He knew they were for smoking crack and told me as much.

I told him basically what I wrote above and that I would no longer be patronizing the store of someone who supports crack use in my community and walked out.

Does anyone else care about this? Anyone else bothered by it?

skinny99
08-06-2012, 17:18
It matters to me. I only shop at Race-Trac gas stations when possible. Around here the little habib stores are a haven for drugs and prostitution. They let it happen and are partly to blame. Most are also very unclean and poorly lit. Both pet peeves of mine for any business.

I am a car salesman, so trust me when I say business's only exist to make money, but when you won't clean, maintain or properly light and organize your store, you are blatantly showing contempt for your customers.

jhoagland
08-06-2012, 17:19
I suspect the new crack users will overcome your lack of business there. Sad but true. It is a convenience store after all. If they didn't have that they'll just buy (or steal) a tire gauge to smoke it in. Hell all they need is a plastic soda bottle and a bic pen with some tinfoil and they are smokin' back. You ain't gonna stop it like that.

Education. Yep, that's where the real progress is made.

tarpleyg
08-06-2012, 17:21
You did the right thing. The only thing that will get their attention is if people stop coming in and spending money.

DoubleWide
08-06-2012, 17:22
I don't like it either. It's not just for crack as more people are using it for marijuana now.

jakebrake
08-06-2012, 17:24
i seem to remember something called....what was it?

oh yeah...

the drug device and cosmetic act.

opposite corner of the state...yeah, i get tired of seeing it too.

USMCsilver
08-06-2012, 17:32
They'll always get it from somewhere...

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RenoF250
08-06-2012, 17:35
I almost never shop at convenience stores because they are scummy places in general. I buy most of my gas from a cardlock gas station which is kept clean and free of drifters.

RustyShackelford
08-06-2012, 17:35
Friend, that man is selling glass roses. He cannot help that the buyers use them for nefarious purposes.

It's no different than a gun-store selling to guys that may/may not be gang-bangers.

But, yes, I think it's silly. I also think that crack smokers will find other objects to use to smoke. You ever see a car that is missing it's radio antennae? Crackheads will break off those things just to smoke from. I've had at least 3 cars fall victim.

/it wasn't until later I found out the reason.

686Owner
08-06-2012, 17:37
We used to just take all the tire gauges off the shelf at our inner city stores. Maybe if they can't find their tire gauges they will "shop" somewhere else.
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Gonzoso
08-06-2012, 17:39
Several posts have indicated that other things can be used to smoke crack, and that they will always get it from somewhere.

This is true and I know crack use cannot be solved by banning things.

The issue I am addressing here is that selling such things in a community store, right out in the open is paramount to supporting illegal narcotic use.

Just because a person can make a buck of something doesn't mean its right.

The same people from distant lands also opened a smoke shop directly across the street from the high school which specializes in bongs, hookahs, and glass pipes, and who also sold fake weed and bath salts.

It really comes down to morals their lack thereof.

NeverMore1701
08-06-2012, 17:40
Can't say I really care.

el_jewapo
08-06-2012, 17:44
I've never seen what I'd call a "crack pipe" in a store around here. A lot of weed pipes, but no crack pipes. Now, the older I get, the less I like going in stores, and when I do, I don't do much browsing. So I may have just missed them. I have to ask though, do you know a "weed pipe" from a "crack pipe"?

The difference to me would be that weed pipes are usually pretty blown glass with designs and colors. From what I've seen of crack pipes, it's just straight clear glass. Never seen a crack pipe in person.

jakebrake
08-06-2012, 17:45
It really comes down to morals their lack thereof.

as long as greed is good, morals are expendable

countrygun
08-06-2012, 17:46
Several posts have indicated that other things can be used to smoke crack, and that they will always get it from somewhere.

This is true and I know crack use cannot be solved by banning things.

The issue I am addressing here is that selling such things in a community store, right out in the open is paramount to supporting illegal narcotic use.

Just because a person can make a buck of something doesn't mean its right.

The same people from distant lands also opened a smoke shop directly across the street from the high school which specializes in bongs, hookahs, and glass pipes, and who also sold fake weed and bath salts.

It really comes down to morals their lack thereof.


It makes you wonder when people say "Oh what the heck? We might as well make a buck off it too"

If folks don't get it, you can't explain it to them. Don't try it's like trying to explain the color green to a blind audience.

6forsure
08-06-2012, 17:46
Don't care. Anyone mad about rolling papers, beer/liquor/wine, tobacco, girly mags, condoms, 10% ethanol fuel......too?

Gonzoso
08-06-2012, 17:48
Don't care. Anyone mad about rolling papers, beer/liquor/wine, tobacco, girly mags, condoms, 10% ethanol fuel......too?

So you're comparing playboy to smoking rocks?

Angry Fist
08-06-2012, 17:53
Not offended. Population control.

RustyShackelford
08-06-2012, 17:55
I was just being facetious (mostly) in my above response. I totally get what you're saying and understand your stance.

To your reference about the smoke-shop right across from the street from a high-school, I thought that only happened in Indiana. The neighborhood of Broad Ripple (in Indianapolis) has at least two stores right across the street from the area high-school. It really boggles the mind.

certifiedfunds
08-06-2012, 17:58
Is anyone else offended when they see their local gas station selling crack pipes?

I've lived in my rural community all my life. Over the years people from other lands have purchased all the mom and pop gas stations and sell whatever they can. When they were legal they sold bath salts, and they sell "glass roses" which are merely glass tubes for smoking crack.

The old store owners would not sell such things.

Call me old fashioned but I don't like crackheads, and I feel as a society we should discourage its use. I feel selling paraphernalia to smoke crack is showing people that there is some level of acceptance of this behavior.

When I went to the gas station yesterday I saw them selling these glass roses and I calmly but sternly expressed my opinion on the matter, after making sure the owner knew what they were for. He knew they were for smoking crack and told me as much.

I told him basically what I wrote above and that I would no longer be patronizing the store of someone who supports crack use in my community and walked out.

Does anyone else care about this? Anyone else bothered by it?

I used to feel the same as you but then one day I broke my crack pipe. I was damned glad to be able to replace it right quickly.




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8-Ball
08-06-2012, 18:13
I've never seen what I'd call a "crack pipe" in a store around here. A lot of weed pipes, but no crack pipes. Now, the older I get, the less I like going in stores, and when I do, I don't do much browsing. So I may have just missed them. I have to ask though, do you know a "weed pipe" from a "crack pipe"?

The difference to me would be that weed pipes are usually pretty blown glass with designs and colors. From what I've seen of crack pipes, it's just straight clear glass. Never seen a crack pipe in person.

The OP is referring to these...

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/daviddisalvo/files/2012/07/loveroses2.jpg

They're sold at every gas station in, and within a mile of the 'hood' in the city near me.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
08-06-2012, 18:15
So you're comparing playboy to smoking rocks?

I am actually more offended by an organization supporting a self-indulgent idiotic lifestyle and their support for aborting an inconvenience than I am offended by the crack smoker.

certifiedfunds
08-06-2012, 18:18
I am actually more offended by an organization supporting a self-indulgent idiotic lifestyle and their support for aborting an inconvenience than I am offended by the crack smoker.

Oh no you di-int

jhoagland
08-06-2012, 18:19
So you're comparing playboy to smoking rocks?

9mm vs. .45 ring a bell?

jhoagland
08-06-2012, 18:23
Shoot, they'll make them out of those work light bulbs. Or a toilet paper role/tape/tinfoil and cigarette ashes.
Education dammit!!!!
A judge once said that the war on drugs has already been won...and it wasn't by us.

You want to really beat that crap? Education!!!!

rgb03
08-06-2012, 18:25
When I was much younger I bought one of these at the local 7-11 and gave it to my girlfriend. A few weeks later we see a episode of cops and what do you know. That little rose in your pocketbook is actually a crack pipe.:faint:

SPIN2010
08-06-2012, 18:30
Think of it like this: Exit admission for idiots.

USMCsilver
08-06-2012, 18:37
Not offended. Population control.

Agreed.

Who cares, really? :dunno:

MikeG22
08-06-2012, 18:42
so what, they take the rose out of the thing and use it? People do suck, i'd say the same to an owner of a place too.

8-Ball
08-06-2012, 18:42
Shoot, they'll make them out of those work light bulbs. Or a toilet paper role/tape/tinfoil and cigarette ashes.
Education dammit!!!!
A judge once said that the war on drugs has already been won...and it wasn't by us.

You want to really beat that crap? Education!!!!

You keep saying education so tell me, who are "we" supposed to educate and how? I don't think there's a single person in the US that doesn't know drugs are bad for you.

That's like saying we should educate people that murder is against the law and the murder rate will fall.

8-Ball
08-06-2012, 18:45
so what, they take the rose out of the thing and use it? People do suck, i'd say the same to an owner of a place too.

Yes. They take the rose out, put a small piece of Brillo pad in for a screen, and smoke away.

MikeG22
08-06-2012, 18:48
Yes. They take the rose out, put a small piece of Brillo pad in for a screen, and smoke away.

Haha, crack smoking lessons from 8-ball....ironic?

Makes sense though, thanks!

NorthCarolinaLiberty
08-06-2012, 18:56
Oh no you di-int

I was sort of playing devil's advocate because the OP suggested that merchants' selling roses are immoral and thus offensive.

*ASH*
08-06-2012, 18:58
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/KK_Koala/Care-Raise_Hand.jpg

bobby_w
08-06-2012, 18:59
I noticed those on the counter at my corner store about 10 years ago.

I told the owner what they were used for and his eyes about bugged out of his head. He said he had no idea and that the novelty distributor is always putting all kinds of things on the counter and swinging toy rack that he had no idea what they were.

Right in front of me on the counter he put the box in a couple of plastic grocery bags, took his shoe off, muttered something in Pakistani (Urdu) and crushed the contents.

I had to duck, he hit it so hard and shouted "Not in my store".

He is a very Righteous Dude and we have become pretty good acquaintances. Last time I was in his store I reached out for my bag and he pulled it toward himself and before handing it to me said "Thanks for all your business, Mr. Bobby."

They are not all bad shopkeepers.

Geezer Glide
08-06-2012, 19:10
People are too easily offended these days.

jhoagland
08-06-2012, 19:13
You keep saying education so tell me, who are "we" supposed to educate and how? I don't think there's a single person in the US that doesn't know drugs are bad for you.

That's like saying we should educate people that murder is against the law and the murder rate will fall.

Prohibition of alcohol worked so well that it carried over into the war on drugs. I get it now. Thanks!

Maybe some of the education should be for the non users as well. Treatment is in order along with showing the long term effects. I would like to further refine my statement that Education as a whole helps the drug problem. Not as many higher education folks are cracked out as the less educated.
Some folks will never learn I admit. However what is for sure is that alcohol is legal and it is easier for people to admit there is a problem with that because there is not as strong a stigma attached to that.

You wanna really fix this problem? Simple prison isn't enough because prison is really where common criminals go to get their Phd's.
I want real solutions and not the status quo. Have to think out of the box on this.

PS: It would give Darwin a good head start.

Andy123
08-06-2012, 19:13
Don't care. Anyone mad about rolling papers, beer/liquor/wine, tobacco, girly mags, condoms, 10% ethanol fuel......too?

Yeah, 10% ethanol really pisses me off.

8-Ball
08-06-2012, 19:14
Haha, crack smoking lessons from 8-ball....ironic?

Makes sense though, thanks!

:rofl:

certifiedfunds
08-06-2012, 19:28
Maybe some of the education should be for the non users as well. Treatment is in order along with showing the long term effects. I would like to further refine my statement that Education as a whole helps the drug problem. Not as many higher education folks are cracked out as the less educated.


Oh, there is plenty of drug use among educated professionals. Lots of prescription drug abuse too.

Crack? Maybe not.

However:

Ectasy
Marijuana
Adderall
Methamphetamine
Coke
Xanax
Vicodin
Valium

..are all widely used recreationally and frequently abused to the point of dependence in the educated professional crowd.

If a forklift operator tests positive for drugs, he loses his job. If a doctor or lawyer's drug use becomes an issue, he gets disciplined by his governing body, participates in a rehab program, and carries on.

Cops don't come looking for drugs in MY neighborhood.

CanMan
08-06-2012, 19:28
Nah, I'm not offended by the cute little glass vials with flowers in them.... I am utterly offended by the crackheads and tweakers that loiter about looking for spare change and smokes by the gas pumps. I would wholly endorse & promote the sale of more vials if they contained just enough SUX for a one way trip!

tantrix
08-06-2012, 19:31
Nope...I don't even care if it has "crack pipe" printed on the box they are sitting in. Just because you "don't like it" doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to sell it.

Your same logic is why politicians can get together and decide they "don't like" guns or concealed carry, and the result is states like CA, IL, NJ, etc.

skinny99
08-06-2012, 19:43
Nope...I don't even care if it has "crack pipe" printed on the box they are sitting in. Just because you "don't like it" doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to sell it.

Your same logic is why politicians can get together and decide they "don't like" guns or concealed carry, and the result is states like CA, IL, NJ, etc.

I don't think OP ever said there should be any rules or laws about them. He asked if you approved and would continue to patronize said business.

It doesn't seem like it would make a difference but if enough choose to spend their money elsewhere it will add up.

We definitely don't need the govt getting involved. As community members we need to start making a stand against very damaging members and businesses.

JW1178
08-06-2012, 19:45
I used to feel the same as you but then one day I broke my crack pipe. I was damned glad to be able to replace it right quickly.




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:rofl: Hate it when that happens.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 19:46
Nope...I don't even care if it has "crack pipe" printed on the box they are sitting in. Just because you "don't like it" doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to sell it.

Your same logic is why politicians can get together and decide they "don't like" guns or concealed carry, and the result is states like CA, IL, NJ, etc.


The OP was speaking of a moral decision on the part of the seller, but I guess to some people "If it's legal, then it must be moral":upeyes:

6forsure
08-06-2012, 19:51
So you're comparing playboy to smoking rocks?

Hustler actually.:whistling:

Seriously tobacco and booze probably kill more people directly and indirectly. More abused by minors too. And rolling paper is almost always sold for illegal marijuana instead of legal tobacco.

certifiedfunds
08-06-2012, 19:51
The OP was speaking of a moral decision on the part of the seller, but I guess to some people "If it's legal, then it must be moral":upeyes:

You mean like liquor stores?

In Louisiana I can buy booze, beer, cigarettes, porn, unhealthy snack foods and a crack pipe, all at a gas station. Which one's should I take a moral stand on?

Oh, and lotto scratch offs.

Gonzoso
08-06-2012, 19:53
I don't think OP ever said there should be any rules or laws about them. He asked if you approved and would continue to patronize said business.

It doesn't seem like it would make a difference but if enough choose to spend their money elsewhere it will add up.

We definitely don't need the govt getting involved. As community members we need to start making a stand against very damaging members and businesses.

They should have every legal right to sell it as I've got to speak my political views. Furthermore I think drugs should be legal.

However I like the idea of the head shop. A shady little place slightly off the beaten path visited by people who do drugs or like hippy clothes, with the back room filled with paraphernalia etc.

I don't like the idea of selling this stuff at the corner store. If someone wants a crack pipe i'd like them to go to their special store, or have to smoke it out of something jury rigged, rather than stopping at the local gas station and picking one up of the counter, like smoking crack is as acceptable as chewing the gum in the same display case.

A person has to have some personal accountability. Selling that crap is immoral, but it should not be illegal.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 19:54
Moral? Legal? It's legal to sell glass and I don't dictate my morals. Some people think guns are immoral.

Free market capitalism.

JW1178
08-06-2012, 19:55
I, like some on here do not shop at those hole in the wall gas stations. They are usually owned by non tax paying forieners anyways. One reason is exactly what kind of business they cater to. I only get gas or shop (if I have to) at Racetrack or Quicktrip or one of the other major corporate chains.

I know that you can't stop people from doing what they want. Personally, I think the problem is the the addicts need to be able to get their drugs easier, and cheaper, that way they overdose and it solves the problem. If all drugs were legal, even if it was just for a short time, I would start a business where there would be a deal "If you can shoot this entire syringe of heroin at one time, it's free!" Just make them sign a waiver that says they have to be alive for the refund and I'm not responsible. :)

rhikdavis
08-06-2012, 19:56
You keep saying education so tell me, who are "we" supposed to educate and how? I.

Now you know how to make a crack pipe out of a glass tube.

Gonzoso
08-06-2012, 19:57
Hustler actually.:whistling:

Seriously tobacco and booze probably kill more people directly and indirectly. More abused by minors too. And rolling paper is almost always sold for illegal marijuana instead of legal tobacco.

This is because tobacco and booze are accepted as relatively normal within our society. A much larger percentage of people use tobacco and alcohol.

Very few people actually smoke crack. Of the people who do smoke crack, the life expectancy and rate of incarceration are much different from that of the average person who uses tobacco and or alcohol.

I also feel that marijuana while not completely harmless, is a whole other animal than crack.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 20:00
Moral? Legal? It's legal to sell glass and I don't dictate my morals. Some people think guns are immoral.

Free market capitalism.


I don't think you have a moral problem selling drug paraphenalia. Nope not surprised at all.

Funny thing though, most people who own gunstores don't think guns are immoral.

6forsure
08-06-2012, 20:04
Very few people actually smoke crack.

another excellent reason not to really care:dunno:

JW1178
08-06-2012, 20:06
You mean like liquor stores?

In Louisiana I can buy booze, beer, cigarettes, porn, unhealthy snack foods and a crack pipe, all at a gas station. Which one's should I take a moral stand on?

Oh, and lotto scratch offs.

All they need is a hooker and a drug dealer hanging outside and that's what I call a one stop shop! :rofl:

Oh, and don't forget a pawn shop (fence) attached to the "gas station".

Gonzoso: I totally understand your point of view. I steer clear of those places. Besides, they are always way overpriced. What goes around, comes around. They will probably eventually be robbed their own customers. I've been to gas stations near Atlanta that don't even have the pumps working. I remember one got robbed and both owners were gunned down by the robbers. I hate to admit it, but I laughed a little when I heard about it, thought "well, they asked for it" because in my opinion, if it's going to happen, let it happen at places like that. You attract criminals, you get criminals.

We talk about situational awareness; gas stations are meccas for crime. Haven't anyone noticed how so many SD shootings happen at gas stations? Those little shady shops, you are basically playing roulette going there.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 20:10
I don't think you have a moral problem selling drug paraphenalia. Nope not surprised at all.

Funny thing though, most people who own gunstores don't think guns are immoral.

I would not sell drug paraphernalia (check your spelling) and you should know that about me. However as long as it's legal to sell then it is part of the free market.

You disappoint me. I've read your posts for months and thought you had more common sense.

steve581581
08-06-2012, 20:15
Wow. I haven't seen a glass dick aka Rosie on a store counter in years and I've lived somewhat near the ghetto (Detroit) my whole life. The crackheads around here never venture outside the city borders.

fireguy129
08-06-2012, 20:20
I never knew that, just thought they were aiming at a certain low class crowd. Thanks for sticking up for the locale.

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 20:21
I don't think you have a moral problem selling drug paraphenalia. Nope not surprised at all.

Funny thing though, most people who own gunstores don't think guns are immoral.
How are you "not surprised"? You act like this is normal behavior for him, like you've known him and his ways for years? It's an opinion, so hop on off your moral pedestal there and come join the rest of us. :upeyes:

Gonzoso
08-06-2012, 20:22
I understand many people on here come from areas where hard drug use and criminal behavior are very common so many people have become jaded and accustomed to this sort of thing.

While no place is devoid of crime, my area, the Pocono Mts was a nice vacation spot and my town a rural relatively peaceful place with farms and woods and few housing developments.

With progress many folks moved here from more urban areas and things have changed significantly in my lifetime here.

This particular store was a family run gas station for decades that sold out about 5-6 years ago.

I suppose this kind of thing particularly offends me not just because of the sale of crack pipes, but they are somewhat symbolic of the downhill progress of my hometown.

I guess some folks don't understand this, and that is unfortunate I think.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 20:27
I understand many people on here come from areas where hard drug use and criminal behavior are very common so many people have become jaded and accustomed to this sort of thing.

While no place is devoid of crime, my area, the Pocono Mts was a nice vacation spot and my town a rural relatively peaceful place with farms and woods and few housing developments.

With progress many folks moved here from more urban areas and things have changed significantly in my lifetime here.

This particular store was a family run gas station for decades that sold out about 5-6 years ago.

I suppose this kind of thing particularly offends me not just because of the sale of crack pipes, but they are somewhat symbolic of the downhill progress of my hometown.

I guess some folks don't understand this, and that is unfortunate I think.

Gonzoso, please don't take this wrong. If it is a legal product the only way to change it and better your community is to get a petition started, pester you congressman and make a change in the law. Otherwise it is free market capitalism.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 20:28
I would not sell drug paraphernalia (check your spelling) and you should know that about me. However as long as it's legal to sell then it is part of the free market.

You disappoint me. I've read your posts for months and thought you had more common sense.



I have more common sense than to play word games about selling things like that and playing innocent or acting like it isn't condoning drug use.

Strange that you are so unfamiliar with the concept of a moral objection. You don't give up the right to have those in my idea of a "free market". You just don't have to sell your morals if offered money for them.

If you think teenage kids seeing such stuff for sale don't interpet that as a tacit statement that using them for drugs is 'OK" then you don't know much about the workings of the teenage mind.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 20:31
How are you "not surprised"? You act like this is normal behavior for him, like you've known him and his ways for years? It's an opinion, so hop on off your moral pedestal there and come join the rest of us. :upeyes:


Maybe that's the problem. too many people have been cajoled off of moral pedestals in this age of the "common man". Morals do tend to make a lot of people nervous.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 20:32
I have more common sense than to play word games about selling things like that and playing innocent or acting like it isn't condoning drug use.

Strange that you are so unfamiliar with the concept of a moral objection. You don't give up the right to have those in my idea of a "free market". You just don't have to sell your morals if offered money for them.

If you think teenage kids seeing such stuff for sale don't interpet that as a tacit statement that using them for drugs is 'OK" then you don't know much about the workings of the teenage mind.

So if porn is immoral to you it should be banned? Or knives over 3" is immoral to someone else it should be regulated? You are a good guy but should know if it is legal to sell, someone will sell it. Change the law if you don't like it.

Plenty of libs want to "morally" change our gun laws. You draw the line here?

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 20:32
Maybe that's the problem. too many people have been cajoled off of moral pedestals in this age of the "common man". Morals do tend to make a lot of people nervous.
But I ask, who are you to set the moral standard for society? Are you not "The common man"? Are you something better? Things are the way they are, it's a free market to sell what isn't considered by law "illegal", and if you don't like it, write your congressman. Not go around sticking your nose up at people who have a different opinion then you, like you've lived some life seconded only to Mother Teresa in morality.

el_jewapo
08-06-2012, 20:36
I guess some folks don't understand this, and that is unfortunate I think.

I know exactly what you mean. The town I live in is a completely different place than it was when I was a kid. I really don't want to go in and find out what they are selling in some of the convenience stores around here these days.

skinny99
08-06-2012, 20:39
Gonzoso, please don't take this wrong. If it is a legal product the only way to change it and better your community is to get a petition started, pester you congressman and make a change in the law. Otherwise it is free market capitalism.

If you could raise enough community awareness you could make a business change or starve them out. It is not easy though. So many people turn a blind eye and go on about their business and continue to patronize a business even if they don't always like their practices out of laziness or convenience. As a society we generally will take the path of least resistance.

The small town where I grew up has started a boycott on the store near the elementary school. They consistently have drug deals and prostitutes on their grounds and do nothing about it. In fact will not put up camera's or help the police.
This is of course a small rural town and the cops do not have enough manpower to just park a car there all the time.

certifiedfunds
08-06-2012, 20:42
This is because tobacco and booze are accepted as relatively normal within our society. A much larger percentage of people use tobacco and alcohol.

Very few people actually smoke crack. Of the people who do smoke crack, the life expectancy and rate of incarceration are much different from that of the average person who uses tobacco and or alcohol.

I also feel that marijuana while not completely harmless, is a whole other animal than crack.

But alcohol is a gateway drug.

certifiedfunds
08-06-2012, 20:45
Very few people actually smoke crack.

Then why such demand for the roses and chore boys on every street corner?

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 20:49
Gonzoso, I think many agree things have changed in our communities. But apathy is to blame, people turn a blind eye and think it's someone else's problem. If it means that much to you be a pioneer and make change.

As for you countrygun, the same applies. Just remember, in Nazi Germany no one worried about their freedom when it was someone else's. Glass= knives=guns=religion=....

countrygun
08-06-2012, 20:51
But I ask, who are you to set the moral standard for society? Are you not "The common man"? Are you something better? Things are the way they are, it's a free market to sell what isn't considered by law "illegal", and if you don't like it, write your congressman. Not go around sticking your nose up at people like you've lived some life seconded only to Mother Teresa in morality.


As the man said "there you go again". Immediately you go to an absolutist position. You act as though a different moral standard is a personal threat to you. given the shape of many of our big cities i would think you might be suspicious of the common values today. Given the actions of many of our politicians, if they are a reflection of the common society we are indeed in trouble.

If you are content to strive for mediocrity, then fly to it. Remember we live in a free society and have a free market you are free to set a price on morals if you wish, others are free to not offer them for sale. Don't get offended and get your feathers ruffled when you see a "not for sale" sign, the owner has the right not to sell if they choose.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 20:57
As the man said "there you go again". Immediately you go to an absolutist position. You act as though a different moral standard is a personal threat to you. given the shape of many of our big cities i would think you might be suspicious of the common values today. Given the actions of many of our politicians, if they are a reflection of the common society we are indeed in trouble.

If you are content to strive for mediocrity, then fly to it. Remember we live in a free society and have a free market you are free to set a price on morals if you wish, others are free to not offer them for sale. Don't get offended and get your feathers ruffled when you see a "not for sale" sign, the owner has the right not to sell if they choose.

Who ever said freedom is mediocrity? It is morals that drive the Taliban. It is morals that drive Harry Reid. What says your morals are the absolute? Freedom is free of someone else's morals. Slavery ring a bell?

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 20:59
And , NO, I am not a drug user. I am a freedom fighter and a proud Liberation.

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 21:03
As the man said "there you go again". Immediately you go to an absolutist position. You act as though a different moral standard is a personal threat to you. given the shape of many of our big cities i would think you might be suspicious of the common values today. Given the actions of many of our politicians, if they are a reflection of the common society we are indeed in trouble.

If you are content to strive for mediocrity, then fly to it. Remember we live in a free society and have a free market you are free to set a price on morals if you wish, others are free to not offer them for sale. Don't get offended and get your feathers ruffled when you see a "not for sale" sign, the owner has the right not to sell if they choose.
Are you saying our free market and freedoms are "mediocre"? Maybe "elementary" too, dear Watson? Like I said before, hope off your "I'm better then everyone" pedestal and come down here with the rest of us. You're just like any other adult man in society. Jesus, and you say I'm threatened by a different moral standard? I'm not the one turning up my nose at people's opinions on what is moral and what isn't. I could care less what anyone's moral standard is? Want to know why? It's because I'm not their parent so I'm not going to go shake my finger at anyone and their "morals" like I set the standard, because I promise you, you don't. Unless it's directly affecting my family and I's personal safety, I shrug it off. Got a family member addicted to crack and you think this facilitates it? Get them treatment. People can smoke crack out of light bulbs, car antennas, you name it. They'll get high. Don't like the free market and society's "values"? Then move to a different country where the government bases it's laws on their own standard of morality and dictates your values instead.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 21:04
By Pastor Niemoller


First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 21:06
Who ever said freedom is mediocrity? It is morals that drive the Taliban. It is morals that drive Harry Reid. What says your morals are the absolute? Freedom is free of someone else's morals. Slavery ring a bell?


And thank you for clarifying what I apparently didn't in my last post.

You think that anyone with different morals are automatically trying to make their morals an absolute. That was exactly my point. A different moral standard sets off your "threat alert".

So, since you brought up the Taliban let me ask you,

"Are they representing the morals "common" to their society

or

Are they "free of someone else's morals" ?

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 21:16
o, since you brought up the Taliban let me ask you,

"Are they representing the morals "common" to their society

or

Are they "free of someone else's morals" ?
So let me get this straight, you are comparing our free society and it's ways to that of the Taliban?! :rofl:


Just wanted to make sure, Father Countrygun..

countrygun
08-06-2012, 21:20
So let me get this straight, you are comparing our free society and it's ways to that of the Taliban?! :rofl:


Just wanted to make sure, Father Countrygun..


I didn't bring the Taliban into the conversation, Grasshoper.

Why don't you ask CFN? or were you in too big a hurry to try and jab me?

Gonzoso
08-06-2012, 21:21
But alcohol is a gateway drug.

Yes, but it tastes much better.

gatorboy
08-06-2012, 21:22
I don't like it but they're not just cocaine/meth pipes. Way back when (mid-90's), most people I knew who smoked weed in college smoked out of the blown, colorful, idividually shaped glass pipes. Never knew anyone who did hard drugs but those pipes and glass bongs were a dime a dozen.

THC and marijuana is illegal in Florida, so I totally agree if they are'nt promoting drug use (they are), they're asking for problems of all kinds.

I'm lucky and the one station I know sells them is simeplace prostitution could not happen without the OK of local Deputies and that has'nt or will happen in the county I live. There I mean, prostitution does go on other places in the county but this one I know about is in a nice, busy commercial/residential area.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 21:24
And thank you for clarifying what I apparently didn't in my last post.

You think that anyone with different morals are automatically trying to make their morals an absolute. That was exactly my point. A different moral standard sets off your "threat alert".

So, since you brought up the Taliban let me ask you,

"Are they representing the morals "common" to their society

or

Are they "free of someone else's morals" ?

I don't want any of you dictating my morals. YOU don't understand what true freedom is. Your type would be "willing" to accept what the Brits offered pre revolution if it fit your "morals".

countrygun
08-06-2012, 21:26
I don't want any of you dictating my morals. YOU don't understand what true freedom is. Your type would be "willing" to accept what the Brits offered pre revolution if it fit your "morals".


"True freedom" is anarchy.

So about the taliban?

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 21:26
I didn't bring the Taliban into the conversation, Grasshoper.

Why don't you ask CFN? or were you in too big a hurry to try and jab me?
No, I had time. Brighten us with your "Superior then the common man" morals and tell us all how to live a little more like a superior being such as you, Countrygun. Since you're not of this society and lead your own, better then the rest of the US.

Learn how to shrug and move on, instead of turning up your nose and shaking your finger at people.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 21:26
Oh, and sorry country, I was debating some other person about freedom.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 21:29
So, since you brought up the Taliban let me ask you,

"Are they representing the morals "common" to their society

or

Are they "free of someone else's morals" ?

They represent their own and their religious morals. Same as you.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 21:35
No, I had time. Brighten us with your "Superior then the common man" morals and tell us all how to live a little more like a superior being such as you, Countrygun. Since you're not of this society and lead your own, better then the rest of the US. Learn how to shrug and move on, instead of turning up your nose and shaking your finger at people.


I don't think I am special, I am sure there are other people who wouldn't sell something just because it's legal.

I realize that threatens you, for reasons I can't fathom, but really, if it's a "free market" then people are free to say "I don't think it is moral to sell that" Unless you are talking about some kind of fascist State where they aren't allowed to have a different set of morals than you.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 21:35
"True freedom" is anarchy.

So about the taliban?

Your morals are based on religion and what you see as good for society. Suppose I don't see it your way. Am I not part of society? Have you read and do you understand the first amendment? Freedom from religion is freedom from religious morals. I said it before, if you don't like a law, change it.

And I had so much hope for you...

HollowHead
08-06-2012, 21:36
Just like firearms, one single legitimate use trumps what can be done illegally with them. HH

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 21:38
I realize that threatens you, for reasons I can't fathom
You keep saying that, "It threatens you, it threatens you" and it just seems like your dancing around the fact that I'm not the one here who goes shaking my finger and turning my nose up at people and thier opinions on the "morality" of a free market. Like I said, don't think it should be sold? Write your congressman about it. Instead of acting like you and your idea of morals are better then everyone else's and should be society's standard.

I don't think you have a moral problem selling drug paraphenalia. Nope not surprised at all.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 21:40
They represent their own and their religious morals. Same as you.


And you,

Remember, yours too is a 'Moral code" unless you profess having no morals you too have a code.

The difference between you and me is that I don't think whether or not it sells or makes a profit is the measure of a moral decision.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 21:42
Countrygun, You came into this forum full of constitutional freedom months ago. Have you traded it for ideology? The left is full of that and so is the hard right. Surly freedom means more to you than a rigid "moral" set of rules.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 21:43
Your morals are based on religion and what you see as good for society. Suppose I don't see it your way. Am I not part of society? Have you read and do you understand the first amendment? Freedom from religion is freedom from religious morals. I said it before, if you don't like a law, change it.

And I had so much hope for you...


Remember i am an atheist but i have seen the results of the
current trend in morals and i have seen what we tolerate these days and how low we have set the bar.

There can be no better example than Bill Clinton.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 21:48
Countrygun, You came into this forum full of constitutional freedom months ago. Have you traded it for ideology? The left is full of that and so is the hard right. Surly freedom means more to you than a rigid "moral" set of rules.


My Country means more to me than just a free pass to "do as I will". We are seeing than in all kinds of places in this Country, are you so full of ideals that the reality of what is happening in Chicago, Detroit, and other cities doesn't reach your ears and eyes?

you suffer from the same problem as big government liberals who trust in the goodness af mankind to create an all encompassing goverment that will take care of us.

You seem to trust in the goodness of mankind to function without any restraints.

I am a cynic, I don't trust in either.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 21:53
My Country means more to me than just a free pass to "do as I will". We are seeing than in all kinds of places in this Country, are you so full of ideals that the reality of what is happening in Chicago, Detroit, and other cities doesn't reach your ears and eyes?

you suffer from the same problem as big government liberals who trust in the goodness af mankind to create an all encompassing goverment that will take care of us.

You seem to trust in the goodness of mankind to function without any restraints.

I am a cynic, I don't trust in either.

I am nothing like the libs. Are you reading what I've written? And I don't believe in the goodness of mankind. On the contrary, I'm counting on the common sense of mankind to counteract the suppression and degredation of mankind to prevail. It seems you have the lack of faith in man and more of regulation and oppression.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 21:57
You keep saying that, "It threatens you, it threatens you" and it just seems like your dancing around the fact that I'm not the one here who goes shaking my finger and turning my nose up at people and thier opinions on the "morality" of a free market. Like I said, don't think it should be sold? Write your congressman about it. Instead of acting like you and your idea of morals are better then everyone else's and should be society's standard.


i didn't turn my nose at the free market. that Once again, is the product of your projecting a "zero sum" set of rules in the world. I am saying that there are individual moral choices. You are the one that demands they be codified in to law because you feel that the law is the only moral restraint that counts.

that is sad.

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 21:58
I am nothing like the libs. Are you reading what I've written? And I don't believe in the goodness of mankind. On the contrary, I'm counting on the common sense of mankind to counteract the suppression and degredation of mankind to prevail. It seems you have the lack of faith in man and more of regulation and oppression.
CFN, what you don't see here is that me, you, and the rest of modern US society were not fortunate enough to be raised by Countrygun and his holy rule of what is right and wrong. So don't fight it, us and the whole US are going down the toilet because of this and their's nothing we can do about it. :faint:

Folsom_Prison
08-06-2012, 21:59
Honestly I've never seen those in any of the stations. Some of the stations sell bowls and grape swishers. Before they banned the K2 that seemed to be all over. I could care less what they sell, it doesn't affect me.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 22:01
I am nothing like the libs. Are you reading what I've written? And I don't believe in the goodness of mankind. On the contrary, I'm counting on the common sense of mankind to counteract the suppression and degredation of mankind to prevail. It seems you have the lack of faith in man and more of regulation and oppression.


Don't forgwt that regulation is what insures yor freedoms.

without it there would be an even worse situation at the borders, there would be no legal ban on drunk driving, remember that when your wife and kids go to the store.

Just like the liberals you hate regulations, except when they serve your ends by limiting someone else, but when they limit you, then they are evil,

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 22:02
i didn't turn my nose at the free market.

Who said that? Not me. I said you turn your nose up and wave your finger down at other people's morals and society's idea of what a free market should be because you are struting around a moral code that you are claiming to be superior to others, and are complaining about how horrible it is that modern US society's morals don't align with yours.


that Once again, is the product of your projecting a "zero sum" set of rules in the world. I am saying that there are individual moral choices. You are the one that demands they be codified in to law because you feel that the law is the only moral restraint that counts.

that is sad.
Where'd I say that? I believe in a free society where each person has a right to their own moral code and what's best for them. The laws are the laws, and if selling that stuff is legal, too bad. Write your congressman and try to get it banned. That's the thing about a free market, you can sell what ever is legal, not only what's morally right.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 22:07
i didn't turn my nose at the free market. that Once again, is the product of your projecting a "zero sum" set of rules in the world. I am saying that there are individual moral choices. You are the one that demands they be codified in to law because you feel that the law is the only moral restraint that counts.

that is sad.

That is not what he said. Wow, this is over the top. I think this is the problem with morals. Where does it end? Are mine the same as yours? Who's left, who's right? True freedom does not generate from religion or atheism or morals. True freedom allows us to choose our own path within what society and constitutional boundaries allow us, and yes, I accept the rules of the constitution.

And, sorry for the delay in response. I'm in a heated debate about the freedom of mankind.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 22:09
Don't forgwt that regulation is what insures yor freedoms.

without it there would be an even worse situation at the borders, there would be no legal ban on drunk driving, remember that when your wife and kids go to the store.

Just like the liberals you hate regulations, except when they serve your ends by limiting someone else, but when they limit you, then they are evil,

Hate to pull this but, have another drink.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 22:12
Where'd I say that, Father Countrygun? I believe in a free society where each person has a right to their own moral code and what's best for them. Not where one man's beliefs are holy grail and others are "misguided" and "flushing this country down the toilet".


right here,

"CFN, what you don't see here is that me, you, and the rest of modern US society were not fortunate enough to be raised by Countrygun and his holy rule of what is right and wrong."

And i am afraid that if you don't see a moral decline having an affect on the fabric of this Country then you have put blinders on.

But you see, your problem is what i have pointed out before, you think that morals are something that have to be written in to law to be of value, that is what has become of our society. The best part of a moral code is when it isn't a matter of law but what is in the hearts of men. When store owners don't sell some two-bit item to make drug use easier because their conscience, not the law tells them it is wrong.

If you tell me that we are at a point where that no longer exists then I tell you the society has declined and that is the proof.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 22:16
Hate to pull this but, have another drink.


I don't drink either.

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 22:16
right here,

"CFN, what you don't see here is that me, you, and the rest of modern US society were not fortunate enough to be raised by Countrygun and his holy rule of what is right and wrong."

And i am afraid that if you don't see a moral decline having an affect on the fabric of this Country then you have put blinders on.
Right there, who are you to dictate the moral standard of society and what it should be? Your morals and views aren't holy grail, and neither are mine. Everyone has the right to their own views, and if people don't care about how morally right what they are legally selling is, that is their right.

concretefuzzynuts
08-06-2012, 22:18
Morals = bible. "Atheist" or not. And BTW you should re-think your definition of atheist. I'm tired and unlike some of you I have a life. It's bedtime and Netflix for me. I'm going to the beach tomorrow and will leave this crap behind. Good luck on making me into a robot lib.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 22:19
Right there, who are you to dictate the moral standard of society and what it should be? Your morals and views aren't holy grail, and neither are mine. Everyone has the right to their own views, and if people don't care about how morally right what they are legally selling is, that is their right.


Do yourself a favor since you have gone so far out on the limb, go back and find where you think I said it should be illegal.

You are the one that can't seperate a moral choice from a legal one.

HollowHead
08-06-2012, 22:22
Morals = bible.

This is simply not true. HH

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 22:23
Do yourself a favor since you have gone so far out on the limb, go back and find where you think I said it should be illegal.

You are the one that can't seperate a moral choice from a legal one.
I didn't say that you think it shouldn't be legal. Obviously you don't think they should be made or sold. You think it is not "morally" right, CFN is wrong to be ok with a free market that sells things that are morally "questionable'' and modern society's morals are on the decline. Again, who are you to set that standard? You decided to act snotty and shake your finger at someone who had no issue with it being sold.

That's all Brother
08-06-2012, 22:24
I must really be an old fart, The only thing I remember from "back in the day" is Tops and Zig Zag. You had to go to the head shop in Charlotte for Bongs and such. Not that I ever went in there.:whistling: Someone told me about it:supergrin:

countrygun
08-06-2012, 22:27
I didn't say that you think it shouldn't be legal. Obviously you don't think they should be made or sold. You think it is not "morally" right, CFN is wrong to be ok with a free market that sells things that are morally "questionable'' and modern society's morals are on the decline. Again, who are you to set that standard? You decided to act snotty and shake your finger at someone who had no issue with it being sold.


Don't you see? you are doing the same thing. You are shaking your finger at someone because they do have a personal issue with it. You are coming from your moral stance and they are coming from theirs.

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 22:30
Don't you see? you are doing the same thing. You are shaking your finger at someone because they do have a personal issue with it. You are coming from your moral stance and they are coming from theirs.
I am not taking a moral stance, I am taking a common sense stance. Something all our parents taught us. Common sense says that if it isn't right to act better then anyone, and by posting what you did, you were. You are the one that went on about how bad our society's morals are, not me. I could care less what anyone else's morals are but me or my kid's.

youngdocglock
08-06-2012, 22:31
I've seen bowls used for pot at MANY stations........that doesnt bother me to much seeing as i live in a Medical MJ state........however i've never seen a crack pipe......i would be enraged if i did.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 22:53
I am not taking a moral stance, I am taking a common sense stance. Something all our parents taught us. Common sense says that if it isn't right to act better then anyone, and by posting what you did, you were. You are the one that went on about how bad our society's morals are, not me. I could care less what anyone else's morals are but me or my kid's.


My but you are a wonderment, indeed you are. How you manage to hold some of the contradictory ideas in your head at the same time, I just don't understand.

Here you say,

Post #74

"
Don't like the free market and society's "values"? Then move to a different country where the government bases it's laws on their own standard of morality and dictates your values instead".

Which would indicate you don't like laws based on peoples moral codes.

but then you say

Post # 89"Like I said, don't think it should be sold? Write your congressman about it. Instead of acting like you and your idea of morals are better then everyone else's and should be society's standard".

You say that if you can write your Congressman and have your moral code turned into law then it's Ok with you, it is almost like a dare.

Same in this one.

Post #99

"The laws are the laws, and if selling that stuff is legal, too bad. Write your congressman and try to get it banned. That's the thing about a free market, you can sell what ever is legal, not only what's morally right."

 

It seems odd to me that a person has no right to voice a moral opinion unless it's turned into a law, but you hate laws that are based on moral opinions. But the only way a moral opinion has any value to you is if it is turned into a law.

 

curious,

You just must be against morals, except of course your own which are only limited by the law.

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 23:01
You dance around things and babble off dissecting random other topics to make you seem more with it and smarter then CFN or me when really it's just all a smoke screen to get around the fact that you acted like a snotty jerk by acting better then someone who didn't share your same opinion. That has been the thesis of my retorts and you just constantly reply with babble. You are not better then CFN, me, or anyone. You are seriously out of touch..

I don't think you have a moral problem selling drug paraphenalia. Nope not surprised at all.

countrygun
08-06-2012, 23:07
You dance around things and babble off dissecting random other topics to make you seem more with it and smarter then CFN or me when really it's just all a smoke screen to get around the fact that you acted like a snotty jerk by acting better then someone who didn't share your same opinion. That has been the thesis of my retorts and you just constantly reply with babble. You are not better then CFN, me, or anyone. You are seriously out of touch..


It was a simple statement. If someone doesn't think that it is morally wrong to sell something as long as it's legal, then I can see them not having a moral problem selling it.

what the *&*)& is so controversial about that:dunno:

MasterShake
08-06-2012, 23:09
That is not what you said and you and I both know it, but hey, you want to be the victim in all this? Go right ahead. You're right, everyone else and I are wrong. Society and I don't have your brand of morals. God or whoever, save us all. :wavey:

concretefuzzynuts
08-07-2012, 06:54
This is simply not true. HH

You are right, I was wrong. But many moralistic views and laws that restrict non-violent acts or impose some moral value on society are based in religion.

countrygun
08-07-2012, 09:11
You are right, I was wrong. But many moralistic views and laws that restrict non-violent acts or impose some moral value on society are based in religion.

Isn't in possible in your paradigm, that religions sprang up to enforce the moral values? The Old Testament for example, isn't it possible that it is a set a parables to reenforce moral teachings that came first?

In which case we can leave the exact religion out of the equation and see it as an argument over moral values.

Isn't being rigidly opposed to the influence of religion, at all just as big a set of fetters on the mind as demanding that everything be done according to religion? Doesn't that become it's own dogma in the name of "freedom"?

concretefuzzynuts
08-07-2012, 09:32
Isn't in possible in your paradigm, that religions sprang up to enforce the moral values? The Old Testament for example, isn't it possible that it is a set a parables to reenforce moral teachings that came first?

In which case we can leave the exact religion out of the equation and see it as an argument over moral values.

Isn't being rigidly opposed to the influence of religion, at all just as big a set of fetters on the mind as demanding that everything be done according to religion? Doesn't that become it's own dogma in the name of "freedom"?

You can pose theories and speculate the origins and enforcement of morality all day. It still doesn't justify taking freedom of choice away from humans.

Can you imagine being the first person who was told they can't do something because a collective group of other people don't think it's right? We are the proverbial "frogs in boiling water" having more and more freedom removed in the name of greater good and morality.

countrygun
08-07-2012, 09:43
You can pose theories and speculate the origins and enforcement of morality all day. It still doesn't justify taking freedom of choice away from humans.


Can you imagine being the first person who was told they can't do something because a collective group of other people don't think it's right? We are the proverbial "frogs in boiling water" having more and more freedom removed in the name of greater good and morality.

So you believe that all people are safe to others if you let them have freedom of choice? What if they choose religion? Unfettered freedom of choice is laced with unintended consequences. I ask again, do you want your wife and children to drive to the store without at least having the hope that drunk driving laws will make them a little safer?

concretefuzzynuts
08-07-2012, 09:53
I never said there should be no laws. But on that subject, murder is against the law- has that stopped it? What stops people from hurting one another is not laws.

concretefuzzynuts
08-07-2012, 09:55
Same with drunk driving. If laws stopped it there would be none.

concretefuzzynuts
08-07-2012, 10:00
Laws are not there to stop activities, they are there to meet out punishment for those who break them. And back to the original topic, crack is against the law and yet people still do it in spite of your morals.

countrygun
08-07-2012, 10:29
Laws are not there to stop activities, they are there to meet out punishment for those who break them. And back to the original topic, crack is against the law and yet people still do it in spite of your morals.


And what does that prove? Nothing. Where did you get the idea that I said my morals would stop them? I never said that. Where did I say that my morals ought be law? I never said that drunk driving laws WOULD make your wife and children SAFE, go back and read more critically.


I have to say, this one of yours really gets me though,

"Can you imagine being the first person who was told they can't do something because a collective group of other people don't think it's right? We are the proverbial "frogs in boiling water" having more and more freedom removed in the name of greater good and morality."

Let's look at the American experience. Europeans arrived on this continent in the form of disgruntled religious zealots trying to prove a point. (I am told that some of my ancestors were on the boat and others greeted the boat. theoretically)

In the course of time great cities sprang up, wilderness was "conquered", civillization flourished, all under the horrid oppression of rules, moral codes and laws based on a religion (which was based on moral codes) In short order we created buildings that touch the sky, all while wearing those blasted chains of rules created by the group to hamstring the individual. Recently we have proven that we are not confined to your pot of boiling water by once again touching the stars.

It is simultaneously amusing to think that the great John Moses Browning (peace be upon him [j/k]) was a "Mormon":shocked: oh the horror! how could he have been so creative when he was bound by such a strict moral code???

Hard to imagine how far we could have gotten if we didn't have all those rules destroying our freedom.

All those rules in our way, "there oughtta be a law, I tell you". ............oh........wait........nevermind.

gigab1te
08-07-2012, 10:34
Several posts have indicated that other things can be used to smoke crack, and that they will always get it from somewhere.

This is true and I know crack use cannot be solved by banning things.

The issue I am addressing here is that selling such things in a community store, right out in the open is paramount to supporting illegal narcotic use.

Just because a person can make a buck of something doesn't mean its right.

The same people from distant lands also opened a smoke shop directly across the street from the high school which specializes in bongs, hookahs, and glass pipes, and who also sold fake weed and bath salts.

It really comes down to morals their lack thereof.



You did the right thing. We have a mini mart in my town that sells cigars in little glass tubes for a dollar or two. The meth heads use the glass tubes as pipes and actually throw away the cigars (they are nasty cigars). There is usually a pile of the cigars behind the store! I don't shop there either.

concretefuzzynuts
08-07-2012, 10:35
And what does that prove? Nothing. Where did you get the idea that I said my morals would stop them? I never said that. Where did I say that my morals ought be law? I never said that drunk driving laws WOULD make your wife and children SAFE, go back and read more critically.


I have to say, this one of yours really gets me though,

"Can you imagine being the first person who was told they can't do something because a collective group of other people don't think it's right? We are the proverbial "frogs in boiling water" having more and more freedom removed in the name of greater good and morality."

Let's look at the American experience. Europeans arrived on this continent in the form of disgruntled religious zealots trying to prove a point. (I am told that some of my ancestors were on the boat and others greeted the boat. theoretically)

In the course of time great cities sprang up, wilderness was "conquered", civillization flourished, all under the horrid oppression of rules, moral codes and laws based on a religion (which was based on moral codes) In short order we created buildings that touch the sky, all while wearing those blasted chains of rules created by the group to hamstring the individual. Recently we have proven that we are not confined to your pot of boiling water by once again touching the stars.

It is simultaneously amusing to think that the great John Moses Browning (peace be upon him [j/k]) was a "Mormon" oh the horror! how could he have been so creative when he was bound by such a strict moral code???

Hard to imagine how far we could have gotten if we didn't have all those rules destroying our freedom.

All those rules in our way, "there oughtta be a law, I tell you". ............oh........wait........nevermind.

Your points are interesting and some are valid however, the twists and turns of logic don't change the fact that it is legal for the corner store to sell crack pipes, the users have a need for treatment not imprisonment and our freedoms have been slowly eroding due to the morals of those in power.

Z71bill
08-07-2012, 11:26
I used to feel the same as you but then one day I broke my crack pipe. I was damned glad to be able to replace it right quickly.




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Now we all know the real reason you couldn't buy Sudafed.

countrygun
08-07-2012, 11:54
Your points are interesting and some are valid however, the twists and turns of logic don't change the fact that it is legal for the corner store to sell crack pipes, the users have a need for treatment not imprisonment and our freedoms have been slowly eroding due to the morals of those in power.


And yet, ONE MORE TIME, for for the cognitively impaired,

WHERE DID I SAY IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL????????

I find it immoral. That does not automatically imply I think my opinion should be law.

Maybe, the fact that you can't seperate the two concepts in your mind is why you seem to have missed this the last SEVERAL times I have said it.

You really need to break out of that narrow box of preconceptions you dwell in.

Ohio Cop
08-07-2012, 11:57
Glass roses, chore boys, big lighters and other paraphernalia are common place.


It sucks. Lately here though they've been dropping the hammer on some of these stores. Asset forfeiture, tax liens, raids and the like have been commonplace.

When I was a teen a local store would sell any alcohol to anybody with the cash in hand. Didn't last long after three kids were killed in a crash with booze they bought there.


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concretefuzzynuts
08-07-2012, 12:22
And yet, ONE MORE TIME, for for the cognitively impaired,

WHERE DID I SAY IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL????????

I find it immoral. That does not automatically imply I think my opinion should be law.

Maybe, the fact that you can't seperate the two concepts in your mind is why you seem to have missed this the last SEVERAL times I have said it.

You really need to break out of that narrow box of preconceptions you dwell in.

Maybe you should stop thinking everything I write pertains to you and your pointy headed ideas. Maybe I am also trying to make a point.

Angry Fist
08-07-2012, 15:14
Glass roses, chore boys, big lighters and other paraphernalia are common place.


It sucks. Lately here though they've been dropping the hammer on some of these stores. Asset forfeiture, tax liens, raids and the like have been commonplace.

When I was a teen a local store would sell any alcohol to anybody with the cash in hand. Didn't last long after three kids were killed in a crash with booze they bought there.


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I used to have this nasty habit of beating the **** out of drunk drivers... Almost went to jail, once.

kilroy2721
08-07-2012, 15:28
Hate to admit it, but I have seen those before, but never really knew their purpose till now. I try to stay away from most convienent stores if at all possible. They are just too expensive to begin with.

SevenSixtyTwo
08-07-2012, 19:27
I was appalled when I saw the little crack pipes up by the scratch off tickets, cigarettes and other addictive products. When I passed by the biggest drug display in any convenience store in any neighborhood, the beer cooler, I just fell out. What has the country come to.

It's in our culture. We have a drug for anything and everything. Can't sleep, can't relax, can't party, can't do that, not a problem. Drug companies have you covered. And in the name of pharmaceutical profits, we've carefully selected which drugs are safe and socially acceptable and which ones are horribly bad and morally bankrupt. Stay thirsty my friends!

rahrah12
08-08-2012, 18:15
I don't think that I have ever seen crack pipes being sold in a store before...I figured they just made them...

GIockGuy24
08-08-2012, 18:44
Years ago I driving on a long trip and there was a general store out in the middle of nowhere. I stopped there to get a cold drink and snack. They sold water pipes and ammunition besides other things. I looked at the ammunition shelf and there a few boxes of 375 H&H with about a half inch thick layer of dust on them. It was an odd place to be selling 375 H&H and water pipes.

There was small chain of music stores that had a room off to the side or in the back of some of their stores that had water pipes and chewing tobacco. One time a federal agent went to one of their stores with his son. He saw that the water pipes were imported. The whole chain of music stores was shut down for selling imported drug paraphernalia, which is a federal crime.

edcrosbys
08-08-2012, 19:22
You want to really beat that crap? Education!!!!

Legalize it, Tax the crap out of it, heavily beat down those bypassing the taxes and make it illegal to use anywhere except your home.

It's worked well for decreasing the number of people that smoke...

CBennett
08-08-2012, 19:34
I didnt even know what you guys were talking about never seen any of this stuff lol.

professorpinki
08-08-2012, 20:06
I wouldn't shop there, just like I don't shop or attend places with substandard service. I'd rather go to the grocery store than my local Wal*Mart, for example, even though I wind up paying at least $5 more, not including the Wal*Mart price-match policy.

rhikdavis
08-08-2012, 21:38
People also take cigars...remove the tobacco and replace it with marijuana!!!!!!!! There aren't too many places out there that don't sell cigars!!!

OMG, where are you going to shop now!!!!

Snaps
08-08-2012, 22:11
can't say as though I have ever seen that.

Peace Warrior
08-09-2012, 03:38
When, OR IF, they ever start selling those things with a sign that reads, "cracks pipes," or "stems," or etcetera, then yeah, I'll get upset.

By the way, OP, why were you in the store in the first place? Gasoline alone? If yes to the latter question, hey, wal-mart sells gas now too.



"The love of money is the root of all evil." - some Jewish Guy around 2000 years ago

Peace Warrior
08-09-2012, 03:41
People also take cigars...remove the tobacco and replace it with marijuana!!!!!!!! There aren't too many places out there that don't sell cigars!!!

OMG, where are you going to shop now!!!!
Stop with all your 'making too much sense!'

We are trying to get a law passed, to win the war on crack, by making it illegal to sell papers roses in cleverly designed glass vases. Making too much sense will affect the desired outcome.

Snaps
08-09-2012, 11:29
why were you in the store in the first place? Gasoline alone? If yes to the latter question, hey, wal-mart sells gas now too.


something else I've never seen.

Dukeboy01
08-10-2012, 06:57
Glass roses, chore boys, big lighters and other paraphernalia are common place.



A few years ago some of our Stop- N- Robs in the ghetto were selling these items packaged together as a kit under the counter. I forget what the code word was, but they'd give you a little bag with all of the stuff you needed to get high (Except for the dope, of course. You had to walk around behind the building for that.) for about $10 or so.

certifiedfunds
08-10-2012, 07:03
Ok, after reading this thread I stopped by my local stop-n-rob and bought my supplies.....I have my glass rose, choreboy, big lighter and crack-rock but don't have the foggiest idea how to do this. Can anyone help?

series1811
08-10-2012, 07:12
something else I've never seen.

Wal-Mart, Sams. Even Kroger sells gas where I live now. :supergrin:

TheJ
08-10-2012, 07:20
I appreciate not want to shop at a place that you disagree with thier practices. I also don't see anything wrong with speaking with your feet/wallet and letting the establishment know about it.

s0nspark
08-10-2012, 07:36
A few years ago some of our Stop- N- Robs in the ghetto...

Stop-n-Robs ... LOL!

s0nspark
08-10-2012, 07:38
I, personally, do not like my patronage to support things I strongly disagree with... I will shop elsewhere and/or spend a bit more given the choice.

Huaco Kid
08-10-2012, 07:40
Ok, after reading this thread I stopped by my local stop-n-rob and bought my supplies.....I have my glass rose, choreboy, big lighter and crack-rock but don't have the foggiest idea how to do this. Can anyone help?

You'll have to ask that guy that eats peoples faces. He knows how to use them.

certifiedfunds
08-10-2012, 07:41
You'll have to ask that guy that eats peoples faces. He knows how to use them.


What's his GT handle?

hamster
08-10-2012, 08:20
I can't say I've ever seen those nor would I pay attention. I'd assume it is just like the rest of the kitschy crap they sell at gas stations. Not in a million years would it occur to me that that is what people are buying it for.

I guess I walk though life completely oblivious.

devildog66
08-10-2012, 10:14
As I see it, the shame of this is that all of that drug user ingenuity is going waste making tire gauges into pipes. Agencies such as NASA could use some more of this street level engineering expertise.

Get the rocket back from Mars = more crack, solve government spending woes = more crack. Why not incentivize it?

Peace Warrior
08-10-2012, 12:23
something else I've never seen.
You need to sign up for more trips outside of the nursing home there Grandpa. :whistling:



















































































:tongueout:

Peace Warrior
08-10-2012, 12:24
What's his GT handle?
No you di-unt! :rofl:

Vettefinatic
08-10-2012, 12:59
I'm with you brother! It's sad. It really is. These places are also selling rolling papers and cheap cigars for blunts. If I stop at one of these places, and I see that stuff - I don't go back.

It's sad that kids will never know about REAL Mom & Pop businesses where the owners and their family ran the place, were ALWAYS there, and took pride in their establishments.

Snaps
08-10-2012, 13:27
Wal-Mart, Sams. Even Kroger sells gas where I live now. :supergrin:

Sams sells it here, not wallyworld though. No Kroger to speak of so I can't say with that one.

Our big chain is "Giant Eagle" and they have their own gas stations, but they're not actually part of the stores.

Angry Fist
08-10-2012, 13:37
Stop-n-Robs ... LOL!
I heard of a Pump -n- Munch before.

Snaps
08-10-2012, 14:23
You need to sign up for more trips outside of the nursing home there Grandpa. :whistling:



GudDang whippersnappers.

certifiedfunds
08-10-2012, 14:34
Ok. So I couldn't find a crackrock and am trying to smoke rock salt in my glass rose. Same thing I figure. Just burned all the hair out of my nose with this damn lighter.

How do you do this?

Angry Fist
08-10-2012, 14:35
Try bath salts.

w30olds
08-10-2012, 14:40
I see them all the time in Atlanta gas stations. The "glass rose" along with a scotch pad in the same area. Those "glass roses" are for gifts don't ya know!

Of course these gas stations have the habib behind bullet proof glass and bank vault doors!


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certifiedfunds
08-10-2012, 14:42
Try bath salts.

That smell good stuff my wife sprinkles in the water?

That can't be good for me.

Breadman03
08-10-2012, 19:02
I used to deliver bread to Jonas Market, and would get there around breakfast time. Once they started carrying the Roses, I stopped buying breakfast. I'm not going to support a business that facilitates drug use.

Chris Brines
08-10-2012, 19:26
There's one down the street from me that sells glass pipes, not "crackpipes", they're presumably for tobacco, but I'm sure most of the time, they're used to smoke marijuana. Of course where I live, there's literally a smoke shop on every corner. I personally see nothing wrong with them selling glass pipes. I also personally see nothing wrong with legalizing marijuana, and am pretty much convinced that the prohibition of one of the most natural drugs on the planet, is nothing more than yet another law enacted by the government to try and dictate and control every aspect of people's lives. They can't say it's banned because of it's "harmful effects", because if that were the case, alcohol and tobacco would be banned as well. I don't smoke pot, but I still think it's a joke that it is illegal.

BonnieB
08-10-2012, 19:34
Boy, I feel naive... I've seen those roses, but didn't know what they were for... Living under a rock, I guess.

There used to be a law in CA forbidding "paraphernalia" for using illegal drugs. Maybe there is in your state.

I have several conflicting thoughts on this issue. What I'm laying down here will stoke controversy and is probably inconsistent. As I said I am conflicted about it, don't bother to beat me up here.

1. The local LEO has to be just as aware as you are of this merchandise and if I were them I'd have surveillance on such places, to tail users back to their sellers.

2. I'm a Darwinist and I think that if people insist on killing themselves young it improves the genetic pool. Crack or ninja motorcycles or unsafe sex come to mind.

3. The store owners present at least one strong American value, which is capitalism. They have a perfect right to own a business, stock it with legal goods, charge the highest price they can get to anyone who wishes to buy.

4. If the store owners are consciously encouraging illegal activities on their properties, they are probably 'accessories before or after' of some sort and probably could be busted if it could be proven that they knew or should have known.

5. I am the great grandchild of Irish, English and Welsh immigrants who struggled to get to America and assimilated into American society as quickly as possible, losing accents, habits, etc. I wish that 'assimilation' were still in fashion but it isn't. Now, many immigrants of assorted types want to keep their languages, their customs and keep their communities separate. And while I wish they wouldn't, they have every right to do it. There's no law about learning English, since the US has no official language, although I wish it had. There's no law about 'behaving American'. There just isn't.

There are several Constitutional issues buried in this, which makes it weirder still.

But I support the OP in wanting to keep his community nice, make it ever better and help people to fit in. And having the courage to speak up. Well done!

(Sorry for the looonng post).

Chris Brines
08-10-2012, 21:23
Boy, I feel naive... I've seen those roses, but didn't know what they were for... Living under a rock, I guess.

There used to be a law in CA forbidding "paraphernalia" for using illegal drugs. Maybe there is in your state.

I have several conflicting thoughts on this issue. What I'm laying down here will stoke controversy and is probably inconsistent. As I said I am conflicted about it, don't bother to beat me up here.

1. The local LEO has to be just as aware as you are of this merchandise and if I were them I'd have surveillance on such places, to tail users back to their sellers.

2. I'm a Darwinist and I think that if people insist on killing themselves young it improves the genetic pool. Crack or ninja motorcycles or unsafe sex come to mind.

3. The store owners present at least one strong American value, which is capitalism. They have a perfect right to own a business, stock it with legal goods, charge the highest price they can get to anyone who wishes to buy.

4. If the store owners are consciously encouraging illegal activities on their properties, they are probably 'accessories before or after' of some sort and probably could be busted if it could be proven that they knew or should have known.

5. I am the great grandchild of Irish, English and Welsh immigrants who struggled to get to America and assimilated into American society as quickly as possible, losing accents, habits, etc. I wish that 'assimilation' were still in fashion but it isn't. Now, many immigrants of assorted types want to keep their languages, their customs and keep their communities separate. And while I wish they wouldn't, they have every right to do it. There's no law about learning English, since the US has no official language, although I wish it had. There's no law about 'behaving American'. There just isn't.

There are several Constitutional issues buried in this, which makes it weirder still.

But I support the OP in wanting to keep his community nice, make it ever better and help people to fit in. And having the courage to speak up. Well done!

(Sorry for the looonng post).

Selling crackpipes is definitely unacceptable. But not all glass pipes are crackpipes. I had a friend who used to have a friend who blew glass in Seattle, and would send cases of it down to him in New Orleans. He'd pay $50 a piece for them, then get anywhere from $100 to $250 a piece when selling them. That was back in the 90's, and the price of glass pipes has decreased drastically, as has their abundance. Now they are being sold (right next to the crack pipes) at gas stations everywhere. I wouldn't expect it to be any different in California, but I haven't been there in years so who knows.

certifiedfunds
08-10-2012, 21:25
Selling crackpipes is definitely unacceptable. But not all glass pipes are crackpipes. I had a friend who used to have a friend who blew glass in Seattle, and would send cases of it down to him in New Orleans. He'd pay $50 a piece for them, then get anywhere from $100 to $250 a piece when selling them. That was back in the 90's, and the price of glass pipes has decreased drastically, as has their abundance. Now they are being sold (right next to the crack pipes) at gas stations everywhere. I wouldn't expect it to be any different in California, but I haven't been there in years so who knows.

Weed pipes. Pot smokers tend to be proud of their glassware.

Huaco Kid
08-10-2012, 21:46
Weed pipes. Pot smokers tend to be proud of their glassware.

All reputable head shops now have signs that say, "For tobacco use only. Any other reference will get you escorted from the store."

So they can rake in megabucks from the kids at the beach.

How much more legit can you get?

Gonzoso
08-10-2012, 22:04
I used to deliver bread to Jonas Market, and would get there around breakfast time. Once they started carrying the Roses, I stopped buying breakfast. I'm not going to support a business that facilitates drug use.

That's the one.

I stopped buying breakfast sandwiches there when they started using pre cooked refrigerated eggs. Joe's on top of 115 is or was much better.

My wallet also went missing once, and thinking back I called the Jonas Market to see if they'd had any turned in. Turns out it fell out of my pocket in the parking lot. They asked my name, I gave them my first and the lady said my last name, indicating they had my wallet.

So I went there later that afternoon and the lady there said she had no idea and to come back at 7 pm. It was 5pm and I was not waiting until 7.

I told her my wallet was there, the woman earlier had confirmed this. We argued for a few minutes, until I made the ultimatum "I know you have my wallet, you can call someone that knows where exactly it is now, or I can call the police and tell them you have my wallet and won't return it, I'm not leaving without it."

Then she made a phone call and in 2 minutes I had my wallet back.

Eff that place.

dbcooper
08-10-2012, 22:07
Try bath salts.


I dumped them in the tub and sat there for hours, didn't feel a thing

dbcooper
08-10-2012, 22:13
Selling crackpipes is definitely unacceptable. But not all glass pipes are crackpipes. I had a friend who used to have a friend who blew glass in Seattle, and would send cases of it down to him in New Orleans. He'd pay $50 a piece for them, then get anywhere from $100 to $250 a piece when selling them. That was back in the 90's, and the price of glass pipes has decreased drastically, as has their abundance. Now they are being sold (right next to the crack pipes) at gas stations everywhere. I wouldn't expect it to be any different in California, but I haven't been there in years so who knows.

I was in the local hardware store about five years back and there is this guy looking for glass tubing telling the guy working there it was for a "project" he was working on. He ended up with a foot of copper tubing and I considered telling him smoking through it would end up with him rather dead, but since it was for a "project" he was working on I figured he'd be ok.

I wonder sometimes if he lived through the day.

Chris Brines
08-11-2012, 00:17
I was in the local hardware store about five years back and there is this guy looking for glass tubing telling the guy working there it was for a "project" he was working on. He ended up with a foot of copper tubing and I considered telling him smoking through it would end up with him rather dead, but since it was for a "project" he was working on I figured he'd be ok.

I wonder sometimes if he lived through the day.

Would smoking through copper kill you? I don't know.

Tacoma12
08-11-2012, 01:24
Here in South Florida they not only sell the glass roses, they flat out sell small metal and pyrex pipes for smoking dope. I see this mostly in the independent "quickie mart" types of places. So I dont shop there. Everything in those places is overpriced anyway.

eyelikeglasses
08-11-2012, 14:41
They who live in glass pipes should not throw rocks, only smoke them.

Full disclosure, couple beers on the boat.

Breadman03
08-11-2012, 14:47
That's the one.

I stopped buying breakfast sandwiches there when they started using pre cooked refrigerated eggs. Joe's on top of 115 is or was much better.

My wallet also went missing once, and thinking back I called the Jonas Market to see if they'd had any turned in. Turns out it fell out of my pocket in the parking lot. They asked my name, I gave them my first and the lady said my last name, indicating they had my wallet.

So I went there later that afternoon and the lady there said she had no idea and to come back at 7 pm. It was 5pm and I was not waiting until 7.

I told her my wallet was there, the woman earlier had confirmed this. We argued for a few minutes, until I made the ultimatum "I know you have my wallet, you can call someone that knows where exactly it is now, or I can call the police and tell them you have my wallet and won't return it, I'm not leaving without it."

Then she made a phone call and in 2 minutes I had my wallet back.

Eff that place.

The workers are mostly decent there. Try Sportsmen Deli up by the red light. Betty usually makes decent sandwiches, but the line gets stupid long at times.

syntaxerrorsix
08-11-2012, 15:21
I don't care what someone else buys, uses or does until it interferes with what I want to buy use or do.

syntaxerrorsix
08-11-2012, 15:25
Then I'll shoot 'em a little if it's justified :supergrin:

sharkbait22
08-11-2012, 18:23
I don't care what someone else buys, uses or does until it interferes with what I want to buy use or do.

This. OP, do you really think that the crackheads won't find it somewhere else? Until they outlaw the "roses" the store owners have a right to sell them if they so choose to. Just like you have the right not to shop there.
People can smoke crack out of soda cans. Would you boycott the store for selling Mt. Dew?

syntaxerrorsix
08-11-2012, 18:36
This. OP, do you really think that the crackheads won't find it somewhere else? Until they outlaw the "roses" the store owners have a right to sell them if they so choose to. Just like you have the right not to shop there.
People can smoke crack out of soda cans. Would you boycott the store for selling Mt. Dew?

You will find that most of this online society is based in neoconservative values and they portray an "us v. them" mentality and care very little about personal liberty or it's sanctity. The responses are fun to read however!

countrygun
08-11-2012, 18:44
You will find that most of this online society is based in neoconservative values and they portray an "us v. them" mentality and care very little about personal liberty or it's sanctity. The responses are fun to read however!



It is funny to see how some folks try to twist it to the advantage of their own agenda/morals.

It seems as though folks who feel that it is immoral to sell things with a "wink,wink,nudge,nudge" attitude, knowing the object is to be used for ingestion of illegal substances, are the folks having to defend THEIR right to say "That is immoral"

Not, say "that ought to be illegal" , no, just saying "I think it's morally wrong" is enought to bring the neo-libs out from under their rocks (crack or otherwise) to attack someone else's stament about their moral beliefs and try to shame them into silence for daring not to go along with the crowd.

Yup, that is the neo-lib "tolerance" in action.

concretefuzzynuts
08-11-2012, 18:58
Here we go again..... I'm stayin out of this one.

syntaxerrorsix
08-11-2012, 18:59
It is funny to see how some folks try to twist it to the advantage of their own agenda/morals.

It seems as though folks who feel that it is immoral to sell things with a "wink,wink,nudge,nudge" attitude, knowing the object is to be used for ingestion of illegal substances, are the folks having to defend THEIR right to say "That is immoral"

Not, say "that ought to be illegal" , no, just saying "I think it's morally wrong" is enought to bring the neo-libs out from under their rocks (crack or otherwise) to attack someone else's stament about their moral beliefs and try to shame them into silence for daring not to go along with the crowd.

Yup, that is the neo-lib "tolerance" in action.

Silliness v Empirical Evidence.

Epic emotional fight, lame empirical fight (Evidence always win).

Don't argue real world facts with emotions. Period.

countrygun
08-11-2012, 19:05
Silliness v Empirical Evidence.

Epic emotional fight, lame empirical fight (Evidence always win).


Evidence of what?

If someone's morals say "that is wrong" what "evidence" does that require? Unless of course you think your morals should be imposed on them and that they should not have the right to comment.

syntaxerrorsix
08-11-2012, 19:09
Evidence of what?

If someone's morals say "that is wrong" what "evidence" does that require? Unless of course you think your morals should be imposed on them and that they should not have the right to comment.


Morales aren't regulated but they should be accepted for what they are.. Opinions.

Tx-SIG229
08-12-2012, 14:43
if the glass rose things bother you that much, write to the company that makes them and let them know what their product is being used for.

personally, i wish my local gas station would stop selling beer. our local ghetto is just on the other side of I-10

Sixburgh
08-13-2012, 05:05
Where I spend my time in South Carolina (about 20 miles inland from North Myrtle Beach) all the gas stations here also still sell bath salts, K2, and a wide range of glass pipes and bongs. I don't see anything being done about it any time soon as it's been this way for a while and LEO's are well aware of what's being sold in there.. since they frequent these same gas stations.

Gonzoso
08-13-2012, 06:27
This. OP, do you really think that the crackheads won't find it somewhere else? Until they outlaw the "roses" the store owners have a right to sell them if they so choose to. Just like you have the right not to shop there.
People can smoke crack out of soda cans. Would you boycott the store for selling Mt. Dew?

You will find that most of this online society is based in neoconservative values and they portray an "us v. them" mentality and care very little about personal liberty or it's sanctity. The responses are fun to read however!

I'm not repeating what I said about 3-5 times already for all the other folks that didn't read the thread, but no I'm not hoping to solve the drug problem through control of the sale of drug products, nor did I advocate legal action in any post against the seller.

w30olds
08-13-2012, 06:55
Saw some of the "roses" over the weekend at a Shell station. Sitting right beside the checkout which also had glass one hitters sitting on the counter. Of course they are for tobacco use


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

MKEgal
08-13-2012, 21:05
I like the idea of an "all you can shoot" drug shop.
You'd have to have the coroner on speed dial, but it would definitely clean up the trash (at least the more stupid ones).

As for the original question, yes, I dislike seeing illegal drug use treated as normal.
If I know a store is selling those things I won't go back.
The area is too dangerous, & I don't like going to dangerous places.
Same if I see a store or shopping mall with armed security.
If it were a safe area, they wouldn't need security.

SCSU74
08-13-2012, 21:08
Is anyone else offended when they see their local gas station selling crack pipes?

I've lived in my rural community all my life. Over the years people from other lands have purchased all the mom and pop gas stations and sell whatever they can. When they were legal they sold bath salts, and they sell "glass roses" which are merely glass tubes for smoking crack.

The old store owners would not sell such things.

Call me old fashioned but I don't like crackheads, and I feel as a society we should discourage its use. I feel selling paraphernalia to smoke crack is showing people that there is some level of acceptance of this behavior.

When I went to the gas station yesterday I saw them selling these glass roses and I calmly but sternly expressed my opinion on the matter, after making sure the owner knew what they were for. He knew they were for smoking crack and told me as much.

I told him basically what I wrote above and that I would no longer be patronizing the store of someone who supports crack use in my community and walked out.

Does anyone else care about this? Anyone else bothered by it?

More offended by the fact that the majority of the money from sales at these places is going overseas to finance narcoterrorism.


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

concretefuzzynuts
08-13-2012, 21:10
I like the idea of an "all you can shoot" drug shop.
You'd have to have the coroner on speed dial, but it would definitely clean up the trash (at least the more stupid ones).


Again, put it on pay for view and I'll invest. I know a money maker when I see it.

Angry Fist
08-14-2012, 11:23
Can I open a laundromat next door?

Peace Warrior
08-14-2012, 17:29
Can I open a laundromat next door?
You'll do anything to get more quarters. :whistling:

Angry Fist
08-14-2012, 17:29
It's all about the cash.

concretefuzzynuts
08-14-2012, 17:35
There needs to be a bar with pole dancers too. Hmmmmm......

Veedubklown
08-15-2012, 11:38
Yes. They take the rose out, put a small piece of Brillo pad in for a screen, and smoke away.

Also the liquid incense that come in the small glass vials. I had a girlfriend in HS who I watched craft her pipes, and when she was dabbling, I didn't like it, but I didn't say much. When she went hard with it, I told her meth or me.

So I watched her blow glass for her craft. I dunno 'bout crack and brillo, but to use these for meth, they use a butane torch, and heat it til it starts to melt. Blow in it to make a bubble, and then heat one side to make a hole. Blow into it, and it pops the hole open. Let cool, bam meth pipe.

Also seen it with the light-bulb and straw, just need a little rubbing alcohol and salt to wash out the white powder inside the bulb that's used to diffuse the light. Once it's clean, bam meth pipe. Terrible stuff.

When I was a kid, I was into grass, and I used to make bongs out of all kinds of stuff. I got pretty inventive with it, small ones, big ones, really big ones, hookas, the whole gambit. I wouldn't smoke from a can though, that's disgusting, and junkie status.

These days, I just make holsters and dabble with electronics :supergrin::supergrin:

BonnieB
08-15-2012, 12:27
No, offense, but I think it might be better not to describe how to make crack pipes out of anything here. There could be 13 year olds around and we don't need to educate them in the use of crack. I know they would probably find out anyway, but we don't need to give them a helping hand.... Maybe it would be better for the posters to edit this stuff out.

syntaxerrorsix
08-15-2012, 12:43
No, offense, but I think it might be better not to describe how to make crack pipes out of anything here. There could be 13 year olds around and we don't need to educate them in the use of crack. I know they would probably find out anyway, but we don't need to give them a helping hand.... Maybe it would be better for the posters to edit this stuff out.

I disagree. Information is readily available to build nearly anything. Hiding the problem doesn't make it go away. Exposing it just like we are right now is a better solution.

certifiedfunds
08-15-2012, 12:53
No, offense, but I think it might be better not to describe how to make crack pipes out of anything here. There could be 13 year olds around and we don't need to educate them in the use of crack. I know they would probably find out anyway, but we don't need to give them a helping hand.... Maybe it would be better for the posters to edit this stuff out.

I assure you this isn't the only place on the Interwebs where a kid can find out how to do this.

BonnieB
08-15-2012, 13:04
Guys, not to be disagreeable. BUT, just because it's out there doesn't mean you have to help distribute it. Just like crack.

countrygun
08-15-2012, 13:36
Guys, not to be disagreeable. BUT, just because it's out there doesn't mean you have to help distribute it. Just like crack.


The responses to your last post really says it all, doesn't it?

It's only a moral issue if you have morals.

Funny, they claim morals should be seperate from law, but their morals tell them "if it's legal, then it's moral"

Seems like they are the ones that use the law as their only moral boundaries.

syntaxerrorsix
08-15-2012, 13:46
The responses to your last post really says it all, doesn't it?

It's only a moral issue if you have morals.

Funny, they claim morals should be seperate from law, but their morals tell them "if it's legal, then it's moral"

Seems like they are the ones that use the law as their only moral boundaries.

I'm really not sure where you are drawing this from.

Information should be open to everyone so they can make educated decisions based on all the facts.

All information, not just the parts you approve of.

syntaxerrorsix
08-15-2012, 13:50
Everyone that didn't know how to build a meth pipe as described in the previous post now does. They also know what to look for and how to identify one.

That doesn't mean they are now going to take up meth use and build their own.

They are now smarter than they were before. Their personal morals will guide them the rest of the way.

certifiedfunds
08-15-2012, 13:51
Guys, not to be disagreeable. BUT, just because it's out there doesn't mean you have to help distribute it. Just like crack.

Ohfuhgoodnesssakes

concretefuzzynuts
08-15-2012, 15:32
The responses to your last post really says it all, doesn't it?

It's only a moral issue if you have morals.

Funny, they claim morals should be seperate from law, but their morals tell them "if it's legal, then it's moral"

Seems like they are the ones that use the law as their only moral boundaries.

Again, your morals.

And don't assume someone else doesn't have any because they don't match yours. The Westboro Baptist Church members have a set of morals too, are they more moral than you or I? The Taliban have morals, are theirs superior to ours?

Get down off that high horse and try to accept that other people have their own standards.

matt_lowry123
08-15-2012, 15:41
I'm 30 and never knew people would smoke crack out of those. Then again, I don't know any crack heads. I'm glad they banned the fake weed in KY. That crap was at all the has stations.

syntaxerrorsix
08-15-2012, 15:55
I'm 30 and never knew people would smoke crack out of those. Then again, I don't know any crack heads. I'm glad they banned the fake weed in KY. That crap was at all the has stations.

Banning substances or objects has worked so well in the past.

Two Amendments and $24,531,000,000 on the war on drugs later... nothing gained.

Gonzoso
08-15-2012, 16:43
This thread isn't about the government making anyone do anything.

This is about the choice a businessperson makes on whether they want to sell a product that assists in using a drug which mostly causes huge problems and suffering in those who use it and those around them ie the community.

I clearly expressed my opinion to this man, and when I went in today I saw he had taken them off the shelf and is no longer selling them.

Therefore I bought something from him today.

This is capitalism at work. A person deciding to make the right choice without the gov having to step in.

concretefuzzynuts
08-15-2012, 16:59
Good for you Gonzoso.

syntaxerrorsix
08-15-2012, 17:20
This thread isn't about the government making anyone do anything.

This is about the choice a businessperson makes on whether they want to sell a product that assists in using a drug which mostly causes huge problems and suffering in those who use it and those around them ie the community.

I clearly expressed my opinion to this man, and when I went in today I saw he had taken them off the shelf and is no longer selling them.

Therefore I bought something from him today.

This is capitalism at work. A person deciding to make the right choice without the gov having to step in.


I'm glad you found a way to express your opinion and find favorable action.

BonnieB
08-15-2012, 17:50
Gonzoso has hit on the right solution. Say what you believe in. Then hit them in the pocketbook. Vote at the polls, vote with your dollars. And speak up. Democracy and capitalism at work.

syntaxerrorsix
08-15-2012, 18:07
Democracy and Capitalism don't work together for the simple fact that 51% of people get to vote for what 49% of others can have.

Nonsense.

Angry Fist
08-15-2012, 20:21
Democracy and Capitalism don't work together for the simple fact that 51% of people get to vote for what 49% of others can have.

Nonsense.
:goodpost:

BonnieB
08-15-2012, 21:51
What's the alternative to Democracy? Anarchy? Survival of the Most Vicious?

Seriously. If the US wasn't a democracy, what would you like to have instead?

And let's not talk about Federal vs State, that's not the question.

certifiedfunds
08-15-2012, 21:53
What's the alternative to Democracy? Anarchy? Survival of the Most Vicious?

Seriously. If the US wasn't a democracy, what would you like to have instead?

And let's not talk about Federal vs State, that's not the question.

Constitutional Republic with the anti-democratic provisions that the founders provided.

countrygun
08-15-2012, 22:29
Constitutional Republic with the anti-democratic provisions that the founders provided.


FINALLY1

CF and I agree on something again.

GONZOSO,

fine work at that was the point all along. Not a legal decision but a moral decision and action that inflenced the desired result in a capitalist system.

Nobody had to go to big brother government, pass a law, just speak up

excellent.

Blast
08-15-2012, 22:39
Democracy and Capitalism don't work together for the simple fact that 51% of people get to vote for what 49% of others can have.

Nonsense.
As opposed to a few individuals who dictate what over 99% of the population can have and are forced to comply with?
That is working real well with the current socialist dictator, isn't it?

Blast
08-15-2012, 22:46
Constitutional Republic with the anti-democratic provisions that the founders provided.
Like it or not, democracy to a degree is a part of the Founding Fathers intent. How else do the people appoint leaders? Voting? which is democracy, or what?
It is "WE THE PEOPLE" right? Or has "WE THE PEOPLE" become obscure and obsolete? Has America become a dictatorship, or does America belong to it's citizens?

certifiedfunds
08-15-2012, 22:47
As opposed to a few individuals who dictate what over 99% of the population can have and are forced to comply with?
That is working real well with the current socialist dictator, isn't it?

Actually, what you're complaining about is the exact opposite.

The shift from Republic to Democracy has occurred. Now you can see what it looks like in its infancy. It gets worse.

certifiedfunds
08-15-2012, 22:50
Like it or not, democracy to a degree is a part of the Founding Fathers intent. How else do the people appoint leaders? Voting? which is democracy, or what?
It is "WE THE PEOPLE" right? Or has "WE THE PEOPLE" become obscure and obsolete? Has America become a dictatorship, or does America belong to it's citizens?

We elect our representatives via the democratic process. However, once in office they are to be limited by the Constitution, not pass whatever legislation 51% of their constituents favor.

The ratification of the 17th Amendment has turned the whole system on its head. What we have today is closer to unfettered democracy than the republic the founders gave us.

Blast
08-15-2012, 22:54
Voting is democracy. There is no other definition. Since American citizens vote, America is a democratic republic. You can't get away from that fact.
The only way to remove any democratic aspects is the eliminate all voting... for leaders, local municipal matters, etc.

certifiedfunds
08-15-2012, 22:57
Voting is democracy. There is no other definition. Since American citizens vote, America is a democratic republic. You can't get away from that fact.
The only way to remove any democratic aspects is the eliminate all voting... for leaders, local municipal matters, etc.

Umm, no. Wrong on all counts.

countrygun
08-15-2012, 23:05
Like it or not, democracy to a degree is a part of the Founding Fathers intent. How else do the people appoint leaders? Voting? which is democracy, or what?
It is "WE THE PEOPLE" right? Or has "WE THE PEOPLE" become obscure and obsolete? Has America become a dictatorship, or does America belong to it's citizens?


Some smart wag, years ago said,

"the majority is a tyrant"

that is exactly why the Founders created a Representative Republic, it is why the House and Senate have different terms and are elected on different apportioning frameworks. We cannot have a stable Government if it can completely change from election to election on as little as one vote (as in a pure democracy).

The founders hated "Mob Rule" as much as they hated tyranny.

It is liberals who keep throwing the word "Democracy" around because the concept eliminates the checks and balances that protect everyone in our Republic.

Democracy by itself is a disaster for amost every Country that tries it.

BonnieB
08-16-2012, 00:08
For those who are as confused as I about the whole 'democracy vs republic' discussion here, I quote a political science professor as follows:

"We live in a republic (a group of states that are self governing under the umbrella of a centralized or federal government). The type of system we employ is a representative form of democracy (meaning the people vote for people to represent their views instead of directly participating in every bit of legislation). This was done to weigh the needs of the people (the house of representatives) in balance with the needs of the states (the senate).

Republic and democracy are descriptions of two different things (one is a form of goverment, the other is the system of goverment). So, for example you have the former Soviet Union, which was a republic, but not a democracy. You also have India, which is a democracy but not a republic. The US is both. N. Korea is neither. "

Hope that helps. And eliminates the rhetoric and semantics. (Wowee! what an optimist!)

Blast
08-16-2012, 02:43
For those who are as confused as I about the whole 'democracy vs republic' discussion here, I quote a political science professor as follows:

"We live in a republic (a group of states that are self governing under the umbrella of a centralized or federal government). The type of system we employ is a representative form of democracy (meaning the people vote for people to represent their views instead of directly participating in every bit of legislation). This was done to weigh the needs of the people (the house of representatives) in balance with the needs of the states (the senate).

Republic and democracy are descriptions of two different things (one is a form of goverment, the other is the system of goverment). So, for example you have the former Soviet Union, which was a republic, but not a democracy. You also have India, which is a democracy but not a republic. The US is both. N. Korea is neither. "

Hope that helps. And eliminates the rhetoric and semantics. (Wowee! what an optimist!)
This is closest to the point I've tried to make for years.

The problem with some is they think the word democracy means and only means mob rule. That is not the case.
American democracy does leave voice of the people to decide who governs. The people also decide many municipal issues such as voting for or against levies, ordinances, etc.

A government without "WE THE PEOPLE" is a dictatorship.
We do have a say in who governs and "WE THE PEOPLE" can kick their asses out on election day.
The Founding Fathers wrote "WE THE PEOPLE" not "WE THE GOVERNMENT" in the Constitution. It is "WE THE PEOPLE" who decides who runs the government.

But still some folks are stubborn and refuse to see reality.:upeyes:

syntaxerrorsix
08-16-2012, 05:39
deleted

certifiedfunds
08-16-2012, 06:40
This is closest to the point I've tried to make for years.

The problem with some is they think the word democracy means and only means mob rule. That is not the case.
American democracy does leave voice of the people to decide who governs. The people also decide many municipal issues such as voting for or against levies, ordinances, etc.

A government without "WE THE PEOPLE" is a dictatorship.
We do have a say in who governs and "WE THE PEOPLE" can kick their asses out on election day.
The Founding Fathers wrote "WE THE PEOPLE" not "WE THE GOVERNMENT" in the Constitution. It is "WE THE PEOPLE" who decides who runs the government.

But still some folks are stubborn and refuse to see reality.:upeyes:

Yet the founders put in several safeguards to insulate government from the democratic process, and wisely so.

Peace Warrior
08-16-2012, 06:47
First, Bonnie, welcome to GlockTalk.com :wavey:


What's the alternative to Democracy? Anarchy? Survival of the Most Vicious?

Seriously. If the US wasn't a democracy, what would you like to have instead?

And let's not talk about Federal vs State, that's not the question.
Constitutional Republic with the anti-democratic provisions that the founders provided.
This^

(psssst: CF, sometimes we actually agree! Weird huh?)
For those who are as confused as I about the whole 'democracy vs republic' discussion here, I quote a political science professor as follows:

"We live in a republic (a group of states that are self governing under the umbrella of a centralized or federal government). The type of system we employ is a representative form of democracy (meaning the people vote for people to represent their views instead of directly participating in every bit of legislation). This was done to weigh the needs of the people (the house of representatives) in balance with the needs of the states (the senate).

Republic and democracy are descriptions of two different things (one is a form of government, the other is the system of government). So, for example you have the former Soviet Union, which was a republic, but not a democracy. You also have India, which is a democracy but not a republic. The US is both. N. Korea is neither. "

Hope that helps. And eliminates the rhetoric and semantics. (Wowee! what an optimist!)
IMHO, there a lot of people, including certain professors, which make the mistake concerning the differences between a Constitutional Republic and a democratic form of government.

gatorboy
08-16-2012, 09:16
Selling crackpipes is definitely unacceptable. But not all glass pipes are crackpipes. I had a friend who used to have a friend who blew glass in Seattle, and would send cases of it down to him in New Orleans. He'd pay $50 a piece for them, then get anywhere from $100 to $250 a piece when selling them. That was back in the 90's, and the price of glass pipes has decreased drastically, as has their abundance. Now they are being sold (right next to the crack pipes) at gas stations everywhere. I wouldn't expect it to be any different in California, but I haven't been there in years so who knows.

This is what I was talking about in my previous post and have seen at one station in my town. I have not seen glass tubes with roses in them. I probably would not have coorelated them to crack cocaine anyway.

I see hispanic guys selling dozens of roses on the streets in bad neighborhoods during rush-hour, between 4-7PM or so. It seems they're ligit or have a great way to get close for a carjack. I actually bought a dozen once when I was late picking up my GF down south - $10 get outta trouble card, well worth it!

matt_lowry123
08-16-2012, 09:18
Banning substances or objects has worked so well in the past.

Two Amendments and $24,531,000,000 on the war on drugs later... nothing gained.

In that case why even have a government? It seems like you know what's going on :upeyes:

That stuff looks trashy in the gas stations. If they only sold it at those smoke shop places, I wouldn't give two fat rats asses.

I'm trying to buy gas and a soda, and these dirty scum bags are trying to barter on fake pot and a bong.

certifiedfunds
08-16-2012, 09:29
In that case why even have a government? It seems like you know what's going on :upeyes:

That stuff looks trashy in the gas stations. If they only sold it at those smoke shop places, I wouldn't give two fat rats asses.

I'm trying to buy gas and a soda, and these dirty scum bags are trying to barter on fake pot and a bong.

Great question.

The answer is: To protect the rights of the individual

certifiedfunds
08-16-2012, 09:34
In that case why even have a government? It seems like you know what's going on :upeyes:

That stuff looks trashy in the gas stations. If they only sold it at those smoke shop places, I wouldn't give two fat rats asses.

I'm trying to buy gas and a soda, and these dirty scum bags are trying to barter on fake pot and a bong.


Good question!

The answer is to protect the rights of the individual. Not to control them.

Blast
08-16-2012, 09:42
Yet the founders put in several safeguards to insulate government from the democratic process, and wisely so.
Yes, I don't dispute that, I like it, but still they provided for a level of the democratic process as well.
Representatives are voted into office to make the decisions on the federal and state levels by the "mob". And as I said earlier, many municipal issues are decided by the democratic process which is voting by the "mob".

NMG26
08-16-2012, 09:44
A government without "WE THE PEOPLE" is a dictatorship.
We do have a say in who governs and "WE THE PEOPLE" can kick their asses out on election day.
The Founding Fathers wrote "WE THE PEOPLE" not "WE THE GOVERNMENT" in the Constitution. It is "WE THE PEOPLE" who decides who runs the government.

But still some folks are stubborn and refuse to see reality.:upeyes:

"We the governed".

It may as well be just that. I don't have the sense or the time to get involved in government. I just try to fly under the radar.

certifiedfunds
08-16-2012, 10:28
Yes, I don't dispute that, I like it, but still they provided for a level of the democratic process as well.
Representatives are voted into office to make the decisions on the federal and state levels by the "mob". And as I said earlier, many municipal issues are decided by the democratic process which is voting by the "mob".

Yes. But the progressives have upset the balance of democratic vs anti democratic. What we have today is much closer to unfettered democracy, which is the tool of tyrants.

Angry Fist
08-16-2012, 11:17
I can't believe how this rolls on...

syntaxerrorsix
08-16-2012, 12:49
In that case why even have a government? It seems like you know what's going on :upeyes:

That stuff looks trashy in the gas stations. If they only sold it at those smoke shop places, I wouldn't give two fat rats asses.

I'm trying to buy gas and a soda, and these dirty scum bags are trying to barter on fake pot and a bong.

Please point out the article that allows for these regulations at the federal level in the COTUS.

matt_lowry123
08-16-2012, 15:20
Please point out the article that allows for these regulations at the federal level in the COTUS.

Easy, Article 73 - no man or woman shall sell any fake drugs at any point in time. If thy wants to sell drugs, they must be real.

syntaxerrorsix
08-16-2012, 15:25
Easy, Article 73 - no man or woman shall sell any fake drugs at any point in time. If thy wants to sell drugs, they must be real.


Well... I stand corrected.






















:honkie:



















:supergrin:

certifiedfunds
08-16-2012, 15:28
It really is amazing to watch self-described conservatives latch on to a liberal progressive reading of the commerce clause when it comes to federal drug laws.

syntaxerrorsix
08-16-2012, 15:31
It really is amazing to watch self-described conservatives latch on to a liberal progressive reading of the commerce clause when it comes to federal drug laws.

Right?

I feel the same way about the folks that feel Marbury v Madison is sound Constitutional review.

Judicial review simply does not exist in the COTUS. It was made up along the way.

BonnieB
08-16-2012, 15:32
:rofl:Easy, Article 73 - no man or woman shall sell any fake drugs at any point in time. If thy wants to sell drugs, they must be real.

Gonzoso
12-23-2012, 20:29
So it's been a while now, but I was just thinking I should update this.

The local gas station stopped selling crack pipes after my complaint. I told a couple co workers my story and they said within a few days the pipes were gone. A few weeks after I went back and saw they were gone, and I looked all over the store even behind the counter discreetly and didn't see them.

So I decided to spend money at his establishment again.

A person can make a bit of a difference if they grow a pair and stand up for what they think is right.

dino1
12-23-2012, 20:51
If my gas station doesn't care about my neighborhood then I'll take my $ elsewhere.

sure they can find them in the head shop on the other side of the highway but perhaps they'll get run over by a car walking over there.

:crying:

InGodWeTrust
01-04-2013, 20:52
i drive 8 milesout of my way, past two indian (slurpie not tomahawk) stores close by, just because i wouldn't give them my money. i could care less what they are selling i don't do business there

Gonzoso
05-21-2014, 00:21
So who wants to go into DW's store and give them the Gonzoso treatment?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1529016

Peace Warrior
05-21-2014, 02:08
I can't believe how this rolls on...
And its just been resurrected from the dead........ :okie:

Angry Fist
05-21-2014, 17:15
So who wants to go into DW's store and give them the Gonzoso treatment?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1529016
:rofl: